WEBVTT - Microsoft 365 Corporate VP on Hybrid Work Disruption 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.160 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:08.319 Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. Microsoft is that 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:10.480 with another round of data points about how we have 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:13.680 been working during the pandemic, where we are today. So 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:15.200 let's get more on this. This is going to be 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:18.000 part of our Workshift event are Bloomberg Live event that 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.119 Tim and I are participating in on Wednesday. Great to 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.080 have back with us, Jared's Pitaro. He's corporate vice president 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:27.800 of Microsoft uh and he joins us on the phone 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:30.920 in Redmond, Washington. Jared, great to have you back. How 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.920 are you. I'm doing great, Thanks for having me. Carol. Well, well, 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:36.839 it's great to have you here. And we don't want 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:38.360 to give away all the data points, but we do 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:40.280 want to kind of cue up our event on Wednesday, 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:43.360 but tell us about the data collection. Remind our audience, 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.400 you know who you're talking to, what types of questions 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:50.199 and information you were after. Of course, so when all 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:52.080 of this started to happen about a year ago, you know, 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:53.920 one of the things I knew for certain, probably the 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:55.880 only thing I knew for certain, is that we just 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:58.520 needed to get some data, like we needed to become 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:01.600 students of the moment. So over the course of this 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:05.200 last twelve month period, we have periodically been taking samples 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:07.360 as we go out and find out across the world 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.120 how people are doing. This last report that we published 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.680 is a survey of over thirty thousand people in thirty 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:15.839 one countries. It's all sorts of different mixes of roles 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:19.440 and industries, so you see everyone from typical knowledge worker 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:21.440 that you might see an in office to people who 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:23.880 are working on the front lines. We're getting a good 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.640 sense of how people are feeling and what they're valuing 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:30.680 and what their challenges are. How are we doing? I mean, 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:35.360 like I gotta tell you, uh, just talking to friends, 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:40.480 reading about how people are feeling, I think a lot 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.400 of people are at their wits end. You know, that 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.399 is essentially what the data says. But let me let 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:48.920 me kind of pull out a couple of points that 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:53.000 really caught my attention. If you asked leaders, they actually 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.000 say they're doing pretty well. Sixty of leaders say that 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.600 they are thriving. But that's twenty three percentage points higher 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.200 than those without decision making authority. When we get down 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:04.720 to the average worker and ask them, how are we doing? 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.000 Then those numbers, I think, you know, really hit that 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.400 feeling that we all feel around us. Um fifty four 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:15.280 percent of workers globally say that they feel overworked, say 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:17.640 that they feel exhausted. So there is a sense of 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.160 exasperation that it's been a very long year and very 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:22.880 challenging here. Well, the thing that that says to me, Jared, 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:24.360 is that we've got to make sure that leaders are 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.799 in sync with workers, right, because leaders ultimately said policy 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:30.640 that's right. I mean, the way I look at this, 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:32.680 if we take a step back for a moment, you know, 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:34.720 I think this is one of those once in a 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.280 lifetime shocks that comes to an economy, that comes to 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.320 a business, that comes to organizations, and and in fact, 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:43.359 what the data seems to point out is that leaders 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:45.240 are not in sync, that they need a little bit 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:47.280 of a wake up call. I think so many leaders 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.560 are just kind of thinking we're going to go back 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:51.960 to the way it was in January, and that's just 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:53.880 not the case. And so this wake up call, I 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:55.840 think is a moment for all of us to look 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.680 around and recognize things have changed. The labor market has changed, 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.520 employee sentiment has changed, to how we do things has changed. 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.320 It really is a moment that demands vision and leadership. 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:06.120 And that's what we're trying to point out in the 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.359 data is that there's there's an opportunity for so much 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:10.320 good there. But at the same time, if we just 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:12.760 let it unfold on its own, under its own weight, 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.160 there's an opportunity for some downside to look such a 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:17.240 disconnect between the way that workers feel and the way 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.440 that managers feel. How did the two meet? How do workers? 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:22.400 How do you know? How do managers rise to the 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.239 occasion here? Well, let's first talk a little a little 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:27.839 bit about what we're hearing from both sides. So when 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.520 we talk to workers, we hear that over seventy percent 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:34.000 of them want flexible remote work to stay in some forms. 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.080 In other words, they're saying, I like the flexibility. Just anecdotally, 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:38.840 when I talk to people on my team out here 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:40.560 on the West Coast, they say things like, you know what, 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.600 I'm eating breakfast with my kids for the very first time. 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:45.840 I've never done that before. I'd like that to stick around. 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.520 So they like that. At the same time, those same people, 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:51.760 sixty percent of them say that they want more in 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:54.120 person time with their teams. So they're saying, please give 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:55.960 me flexibility, but at the same time, give me the 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.400 opportunity to get back in person. Now when we look 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:00.520 at it, managers or leaders, on the other hand, they 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:03.480 are recognizing that that flexibility is valuable. Over eight percent 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.520 of them plan to keep more flexible remote from work 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.600 from home policies post pandemic. So I think the meeting 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:11.320 the way I would term it is we want the 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:13.560 best of all worlds. We want people to be able 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:16.080 to work together, workers and managers to find kind of 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:19.000 that best of all worlds set up so that everybody 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:21.840 is getting things that that benefit them. And I believe that, 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:23.800 you know, there's a bright future head it will grab 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.320 onto them work together. Hey, Jared, what about demographic differences, 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.560 age differences when it comes to all of this. You know, 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:32.520 we definitely saw that if we go back to that 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.799 idea that we're trying to understand who's living and who's 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.240 not doing so well, if I just point to gen Z, 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:40.960 that's a very interesting data point for a sixty percent 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.919 of gen Z say that they're just surviving or even 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.680 struggling right now during the current set up. And so 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.000 essentially what we're seeing is that this generation is more 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.159 likely to be single early in career. They are definitely 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.680 feeling the effects of kind of the impact of isolation, 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.599 struggle with motivation at work. They don't have the same 0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:59.919 financial means as those who are more established, and so 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.320 gen Z in particular reads needs I think, you know, 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:06.440 some energy and some attention, because after all, you know, 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:08.599 from our perspective, they are the future of work. When 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:10.240 we talk about it, it has to do with people, 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:14.360 and that's the generation that's going to help us. How 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:16.200 do we do it though? That's like I keep I 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.359 keep thinking about this from the perspective of just talking 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:20.960 to my friends over the last year, which has been 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:24.320 want of struggle, especially people who have kids. We only 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.000 have about well, no, we we have a little bit 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:27.240 of time. So I want to make sure that we 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.839 we tease this out a little bit. What is the 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.279 what is the right way for us to approach this 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:34.880 when it comes to balancing our working lives. You did 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:36.840 mention that for the first time parents are able to 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:38.920 be breakfast with their kids. But at the same time, 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.880 it also means that there isn't that separation between work 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:47.160 and home life. Yes, definitely, that's something that people are 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.320 struggling with there's this idea of how do I put 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:51.760 boundaries on what I'm doing? So we you know, in 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.480 many ways, I think that you should kind of internalize 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:58.480 that we have become the first truly always on digital workforce, 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:00.960 you know, and that was forced upon us starting last year, 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.280 and we just didn't have the norms or the boundaries 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.719 or the kind of cultural things that we needed to 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.719 deal with it. So our recommendation from the data is 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:10.560 that companies take a step back and they think about 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.200 a couple of key things. They think about new norms 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:16.400 that they want to establish, kind of new approaches that 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:18.640 they think will be important, and even new policies that 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:20.840 will help them out. So Microsoft, as an example, we've 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:23.800 we've already made the announcement that our workers can work 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.279 from home of the time, and what we're trying to 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.960 do there is signal we think in person time is important, 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:30.960 that FaceTime will be important. At the same time, we 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:34.240 want to give employees more flexibility than they had before 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.200 the pandemic to do some of those things that really 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.440 matter to them. And then I'm happy to talk about 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:40.440 kind of some of the other investments I think companies 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:42.240 need to make because it's more than just the policy. 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.599 You actually we think have to invest in key areas. 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:46.840 But that's a good start. Well that's interesting. So where 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.240 do you think you know companies need to invest because 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:50.839 it also sounds like on the other side, I know 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:53.839 you guys did some work with LinkedIn. You know specifically 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:58.720 employees are looking for that flexibility when they go searching 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:01.600 for a job. Absolutely, I mean, one of the data 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.080 points that definitely caught my attention was the remote job 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.640 postings on Lincoln increased more than five times during the pandemic, 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.080 and we saw that it was women, gen z and 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:12.680 those without graduate degrees who are more likely to apply 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:15.000 for those jobs. So we see a really interesting thing 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.160 happening here with the labor market, where again this could 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.800 be a real upside coming out of this new world 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.600 of work. Now in terms of investments and things that 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:24.400 we think that people need to do, we think that 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:26.800 there needs to be more investment in kind of first 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.800 just the people, the soft side of how work gets done. 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:31.920 We think that companies, as an example, really need to 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:35.480 lean into well being and helping their employees understand you 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:37.400 just aren't going to perform well if you're trying to 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.920 work twenty four seven. That's a little bit different than 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:42.800 you know, I think most companies would would try and 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:45.280 do it. But how do you make that argument to 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:47.800 a company that's just focused on the bottom line? Like, 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.800 how do you convince them that this is an investment 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:52.360 that they need to make, Like what are the numbers 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.160 that you can show them that say, hey, this is 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.320 something that is vital to the success of your company. 0:07:57.640 --> 0:07:59.200 You bet. I think what you do is you appeal 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:02.120 to the bot mine. Our perspective has been what the 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:04.720 numbers are starting to show us is that you can't 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:08.320 treat people like machines and try and increase their productivity 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.119 by just simply increasing their uptime. It turns out humans 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.520 aren't like that. Instead, you have to think about people 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.840 in terms of performance, the way we think about high 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:20.560 performance in elite athletes as an example. Those folks need 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:22.440 to train and need their work, but they also need 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:24.800 downtime and they need boundaries. And that's what we're seeing 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.120 from the science is that that's what companies are going 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:28.920 to have to lean into to get the most out 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.240 of their employees going forward. So there's still work to do, 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.199 but there's science there. We think we can rely on. Well, 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:36.520 I would assume at some point to those productivity numbers 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:38.240 show up that people are getting burned out and they're 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:41.200 not as productive, because I definitely felt early on, you know, 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:44.840 working from home for many months that I was incredibly 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.400 productive and I got more because I wasn't commuting and 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:49.040 there were things that weren't I wasn't doing that I 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:50.960 could just kind of plow into my jobs. But there 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:54.400 was a point where, like not having that delineation jared 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:59.599 between work and home, that I started to get burnt out. Oh. Absolutely. 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:02.120 You know, what's what's most interesting to me is that 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:05.720 productivity has actually either stayed the same in many industries 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.040 or in some cases gone up during this time. But 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.199 it's been the result of exactly what you're saying, people 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:13.520 just working themselves so hard because they want to make 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:15.840 sure they're contributing to the company. Is It's fascinating to 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:17.920 me that one of the biggest questions we feelded early 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.439 on in the pandemic is will our employees really work 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.200 or will they watch Netflix? And you know, twelve months 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.720 into it, we're realizing, wow, did they ever work? In fact, 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:27.880 we've got to figure out how to help them stop working. 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.920 And watch the Netflix. Of course they did. You know what, 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:33.640 It helped them to be more productive, and it was 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.720 probably the office that they watched. Indeed, they were running 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.480 the fields. All right, We're gonna run, Hey, Jared, Thanks 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:41.480 so much. Looking forward to your involvement once again with 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:43.800 one of our Bloomberg Live events. We've got Workshift coming 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:47.760 up on Wednesday. Jared's Pitaro, corporate vice president over at Microsoft, 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.079 through on the phone from Redmond, Washington,