WEBVTT - Inception (Archive) 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.360 This episode is brought to you by Peloton break through 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:05.840 the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.600 Cross Training tread Plus powered by Peloton Iq. With real 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:12.719 time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.960 your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:20.120 goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.479 and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training tread Plus 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:29.400 at one Peloton dot com. 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:31.880 What kind of a show you guys putting on here today? 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:33.120 You're not interested in art? 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:33.480 Now? 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:35.279 No, Look, we're going to do this thing. We're going 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:36.120 to have a conversation. 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:39.000 Hey. 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.839 Film spotters Adam and Josh. Here Christopher Nolan's Inception came 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:45.519 to theaters fifteen years ago. Josh, or did I just 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:47.920 dream it? It's hard to say. 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:50.400 I didn't have a battle. It happened. 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:54.840 I think I recall reviewing it back in July twenty ten. 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:59.040 That was with former co host Maddie Ballgame. But you 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:03.160 and me, we revisited it back in twenty twenty when 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:07.480 we were mired in COVID and looking for things to discuss, 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.120 and we came up with a pretty good idea. I'm 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:12.399 pretty sure we knew Tenant was coming out, and we 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:16.800 were looking into the future, looking for some hope on 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.280 the horizon, and we said, well, let's prepare, Let's revisit 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.520 all of Christopher Nolan's films. Let's do a Christopher Nolan 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:27.480 over review, as we called it, look at all of 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:31.560 Christopher Nolan's films in order, which we did. Inception was 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:31.959 part of that. 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.240 We're going to share that review today. Now, did someone 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:40.280 just place this in my brain, Adam or are you 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.440 not as big of a fan of Inception as I am? 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:44.920 Am I remembering that correctly. 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:47.440 Yeah, that's true. I mean I'll have to I'll have 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.720 to listen to the conversation. I think I might just 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:54.400 be three stars on it. It's not There's at least 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:56.920 five other Nolan films I like better. At least that's 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:57.960 my recollection. 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.680 Okay, well, it sounds like we at least didn't fight 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:04.800 about it, though. Yes, we'll have to listen to find 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:08.680 out for sure. The Film Spotting Archive, which we're pulling 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.880 this review from, has other reviews as well as top 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.280 fives and more going back to two thousand and five. 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.320 Access to the archive is just one of the benefits 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:19.760 you get as a member of the Film Spotting Family. 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:23.520 You can learn more about joining the family over at 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:27.720 film spottingfamily dot com from July twenty twenty. Then here 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:31.400 is that Nolan ooverview review of Inception. 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:33.200 There's one thing you should know about me. 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:40.760 I specialize in a very specific type of security, subconscious security. 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:43.280 You're talking about dreams. 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.240 That's from the trailer for Christopher Nolan's Inception, which came 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:54.440 out almost exactly ten years ago July sixteenth, twenty ten. 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:57.919 That means it arrived two years after The Dark Night. 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:01.320 To give us some context here for our Nolan overview, 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:05.720 which we've mostly been going through chronologically. Now we did 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:07.920 make an exception in the case of the Batman trilogy 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:09.679 jumbled things up a bit, but we're back on track 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.480 here with Inception again, which came out in twenty ten. 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:17.000 It was Nolan's third highest grossing film still is behind 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:19.760 The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises made eight 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:24.200 hundred and thirty million dollars globally, and maybe after The 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:28.360 Dark Knight, it's Nolan's best loved film. One measurement here 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.160 is to look at letterboxed, where The Dark Knight and 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.360 Inception come in at one and two. Now, one of 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:37.800 the things that I mentioned was that I wanted to 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:41.040 trace at the beginning of our Christopher Nolan overview Adam 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:45.080 the evolution of his characters as human beings rather than 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:49.480 placeholders for ideas or chess pieces that he could move 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:54.000 around these elaborately constructed game boards. Following his first film, 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:58.360 I think we both agreed didn't exactly provide fully rounded characters. 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.560 There were other things we liked about it. While Memento 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.480 was a significant leap forward in that direction, especially considering 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:10.280 Guy Pierce's Leonard, still, Nolan's reputation with some as a 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:14.320 cold filmmaker would follow him through his subsequent movies, and 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.039 it had been so long since I had last seen 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:20.159 twenty ten's Inception that I couldn't remember how it struck me. 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.800 In this regard, I certainly remembered Ellen Page's dream architect 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:27.479 folding cities in on themselves not long after she joined 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:31.800 Leonardo DiCaprio's team of dream thieves, these corporate spies who 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:35.239 enter business people's dreams to steal their secrets. I also 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:38.640 remembered Joseph Gordon Levitt inside one of those dreams in 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:42.640 a fistfight in a Hotel Hallway where gravity had disappeared. 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:45.640 This is one of the handful of instances where Nolan 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.680 relied on a practical set and effects to twist our minds. 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.360 But what of the movie's emotional resonance and the human 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.839 element connected to it? I wasn't sure, And this is 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:58.120 what made me wonder back when we were running through 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:01.400 our tentative rankings of his films if Inception might fall 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:06.080 after this overview from my number two slot. Well, here's 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:10.440 what I forgot. How good and crucial Marion Cotillard is 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:14.320 as Ma, the late wife of DiCaprio's Cob, who appears 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.960 throughout the film in those dream sequences as a projection 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.560 of cobs subconscious. I'll make my case for her as 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.200 the emotional lynchpin of the film, but first I want 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:26.359 to hear what you made of this aspect of Inception, Adam. 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:30.280 Is this still one of your favorite Nolan's And if so, 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:32.800 is Courtyard part of the reason for that. 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:39.839 Well, throughout this series, every movie we have seen has 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:44.440 either risen in my estimation or stayed at the exact 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:45.000 same level. 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:47.600 And we now have a first. 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:53.279 No, a movie dipped and Inception dipped. I don't know 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:57.239 how it happened, but throughout this series, as you know, Josh, 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:58.920 and I think I've referenced it during a couple of 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:02.280 conversations I've been battling with our producer Sam. I call 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:05.880 him the Nolan nitpicker, and he would totally accept that. 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:06.440 Moniker. 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.400 We've been going back and forth on Memento and The Prestige, 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.960 which are movies in particular, that he just doesn't get 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.080 what all the fuss is about, even after listening to 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.160 us be so insightful for so many minutes. Yeah, hard 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:23.719 to imagine editing those shows. Somehow, he still doesn't see 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.800 what's so great about these movies. And he's constantly picking 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.960 at all the open questions and all the holes in 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.080 the plots, and the way that Nolan seems to establish 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:37.159 all these rules and they don't all fit together, maybe 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.360 as cohesively as they should in his mind. And I'm 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:44.880 always countering this. Somehow, without me being aware, he connected 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.680 me to some machine in spring Green, Wisconsin, and he 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:52.520 infiltrated my subconscious as I watched Inception. What is Cobb's 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:54.760 line early in this film? He says, once an idea 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.760 has taken hold of the brain, it's almost impossible to eradicate. 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:02.080 And that idea that that got planet in my mind, 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.400 that Sam didn't really put there was. This House of 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:09.160 Cards is kind of flimsy, and it's shaking under the 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:13.800 weight of the spectacle, and it almost crumbles because of 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:16.000 a weak foundation. This is how I'm going to get 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.680 to the answer to your question, in a little bit 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:20.520 of a roundabout way. If you take everything that makes 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:25.480 a Nolan film, certainly elements and attributes that we were 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:27.840 both aware of before we embarked on this series, but 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:33.080 have maybe even crystallized even clearer now. The genre elements. 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:35.800 This is a heist movie right at its core, the 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:41.320 philosophizing the preoccupation with memory and time, which is inextricable 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:43.920 from the form of his movies right and their metadness. 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:46.840 We see it in the nonlinear structures, but I think 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:51.600 the most applicable example here the same way in Memento, 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.200 we as viewers are linked to Leonard by not being 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.640 aware of how we got into each scene. Inception throws 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:01.840 us into this bizarre, convoluted scene immediately. And I am 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:05.840 not exaggerating here, Josh, I didn't remember how this movie opened, 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:10.280 and I checked the display on my Blu ray player 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:14.120 three times in the first seven minutes to confirm that 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.200 I hadn't accidentally started the movie on a different chapter 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.360 somewhere in the middle of the film. I really had 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:21.240 thought I had done something wrong. I forgot that it 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:23.480 opened just dropping him on that beach, and that he's 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.960 in conversations with Cyto and you have no idea kind 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:27.640 of what's going on. 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.160 So you've already stumbled into One of the brilliant things 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:33.000 about the movie, of course, is of course that's it, right, Bowls. 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:35.760 It's a dream. Yeah, No, it's a dream within a 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.640 dream at a dream within a dream, of course. 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:43.679 Yeah, it's it's no exposition, it's no introductions or set up, 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.400 and a lot of sequences do start that way. It's 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.640 not just the opening of the film. And yes, you 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:51.720 said it, but it makes sense that in a movie 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.360 where most characters are in a dream state most of 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:56.400 the time, that it would play like a dream for 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.800 the people watching it. And these films are all all 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:04.360 of Nolan's work are artistic creations that are commenting on 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.240 the act of creating art, and they're engaging in this 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.560 dialogue with a viewer at the same time making us 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:13.440 confront how our day to day experience of life is 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.680 like being in or watching a movie or vice versa. 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:19.960 And honestly, that's spiral image, which is such a key 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.960 image to this movie. That's a perfect metaphor for how 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.520 dizzy I get when I even try to articulate what 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.840 I just expressed, And all of that is what makes 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:34.040 Nolan's films really fun to consider, really fun to discuss. 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:38.920 But it is a hollow experience without the humanity, which 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:43.840 doesn't mean necessarily what you might think of emotion, a 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.200 certain sentimentality, or compassion, even the kind of things that 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:51.640 maybe get attributed to humanist filmmakers that we lump together 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:55.800 like Capra or o Zoo or Satugate Ray. It's maybe 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.560 a more cynical type of humanism, But for me, it's 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:01.840 seeing the humanity in his character in the form of 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:06.440 recognizing their flaws. It's their guilt and the struggle with 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.640 that guilt that we see in Will Dormer, in Bruce Wayne, 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:13.600 in Leonard Shelby in The Rival Prestige Magicians. It's their grief, 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:19.400 it's their obsessions and their choices, usually misguided and tragic, 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:24.120 but understandable no matter how stylized or heightened. The circumstances 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:28.240 are we're seeing ourselves and our conflicts and our crises 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.160 reflected back to us in those obsessions and those choices. 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.720 And I've connected to that humanity in every one of 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:39.640 these Nolan films so far until Inception. At no point, 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.760 at no point was I invested in what was at 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:47.280 stake for Dom getting back to his kids and reconciling 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:51.720 as it were, with his wife, forgiving himself and moving 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:56.520 on with his life. And minus that investment that's spinning 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.320 totem at the end, whether it falls or not, whether 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.400 it's all a dream, real it just it just doesn't matter. 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:04.839 It really doesn't matter. This is the first Nolan film 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.520 that didn't leave me with more questions, more exciting questions 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:10.920 to ponder at the end, and for what it's worth. 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:13.719 As I was preparing for this, I did go back 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:15.800 and look at my notes from twenty ten, and I 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:18.679 discovered that I felt this way originally too. I didn't 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.880 buy Mall or their relationship beyond her being one of 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:25.160 those chess pieces you mentioned, beyond being a convenient antagonist 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.960 and complication. But I was so wowed by the scope 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:32.440 of the movie and the audacity of those multi layered 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.760 dream sequences and the technical precision and imagination of yes, 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:39.640 that anti gravity hotel hallway scene in Paris folding in 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.880 on itself, that I was able to dismiss that nagging 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:46.080 idea ten years ago, this time it spread. 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.240 Wow, Adam, I love you, but you have no idea 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.080 what you're talking about. This is thanks shocking to me. 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.520 I mean, this is kind of like a work that 0:11:55.679 --> 0:12:00.120 a filmmaker has been building towards. You can see all 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.120 of the pieces that he's been toying with and playing 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:07.400 with in his previous films and perfecting them technically in 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:11.160 terms of scale, in terms of production, imagination, ideas, and 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.120 I really think that the emotional element works here. What's 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.160 interesting to me when you talk about having, you know, 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.280 an idea placed in your head. I think the reason 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:25.920 that I didn't remember Inception as being this moving is 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.800 because it does have those critics who call it cold 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.079 and maybe, you know, for good reasons. I do want 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.360 to hear more about, you know, exactly why you think 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.320 it didn't connect with you this way beyond just that 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:38.800 it didn't. Maybe people have good reasons for that, but 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:40.840 I have heard that over the years and again didn't 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.880 revisit it, and so I thought, well, you know, maybe 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:47.959 that's a missing link that I too should have given 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:51.840 more credence to in twenty ten and maybe would have 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.520 judged the film more fairly. So after watching it again 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.199 and just being wowed on every level by this movie. 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:02.120 I'm not saying it's perfect, can return to the ski 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.480 chase scene in the final sequence, the final segment, but 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.720 just being so thrilled by the experience of this movie again, 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:13.120 including the emotional resonance and this marriage at the heart 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:15.280 of it. I went back and looked at my twenty 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:19.320 ten review and sure enough, there I say that the 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:23.960 supporting characters give the best performances beyond DiCaprio, and that 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:26.040 as I'd agree with that as a matter of fact, 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:30.480 that really the heart of this film is Marion Cotillard 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:32.880 as model. It was something that did resonate with me 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.840 at the time and just either faded from my memory 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.119 or kind of got beat out of me by other ideas. 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.880 And I guess we do have to acknowledge and maybe 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:43.480 this was part of the issue for you. This is 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.679 another dead wife, right, and you're starting to wonder if 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.080 it's like a crutch that Nolan is landing up on. 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:50.040 But I think when you. 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.840 Compare her to the other figures that we've seen, even 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:57.720 in Memento, this is a much more complicated figure. This 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.600 isn't just someone you can say, this wife is we 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.560 move on from that, right, like it's just a way 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:05.880 to move the story forward or to get the story 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:10.760 jump started. Mal is much more complicated in terms of performance. 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.320 Think about the challenge of this role. She's only really 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:18.600 ever mostly I should say, a projection of Cobs, right, 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.880 and so you know, unless you trust his flashbacks to 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.680 their time in Limbo and their other time together, Cotyard 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.360 has to play this projection element. That's one thing she 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.680 has to do is be not Mal but a projection 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.320 of Mal, who isn't a real person. But at the 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.160 same time, she's going to have to give us moments 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.200 where we do sympathize with her as Yes, this is 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.920 what's so fascinating. A victim of Cobs, of the decisions, 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.200 all those things you were talking about in his previous films, 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.280 the bad decisions due to the obsessions that his male 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.760 characters have, the victims of that. That's what she is too. 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.120 And I do think Coatyard gives her her own inner life. 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.320 That gives us a sense of that think of all 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.000 the things that my in this film. She's malevolent, as 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:04.720 you say, and I love that about her, like there's 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.720 allowed to be this side where she is someone to fear, 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.960 but she's also Lovelauren. She's a partner in their dream thievery. 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.040 I also love that she's not just like the wife's 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.560 stuck at home, but we establish it that she was 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.280 a partner in this business with Cobb. She was a 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.680 partner in their marriage, and I think Coachyard gives us 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.000 all of that. And ultimately, you know she's a victim 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.240 of Cobb's attempts to save her. This is the sort 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.800 of thing he has to forgive himself for. But she's 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.440 also a woman with her own agency and ideas. Again, 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:38.040 if you pull out those flashbacks where she's not a projection, 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.120 but we're ostensibly seeing her, and I think the performance 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.800 gives us this as her own woman. So for me, 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.560 the tragic relationship between Cobb and Malay, it's kind of 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:49.640 the center of the film. And one more thing I'll 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.960 just say about it again, I think tying back to 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.640 the mechanics that do blow us away that do wow us. 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.200 It's directly woven into those things. I think about the Totem, 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.640 this whole idea about Totem, that it comes from mil 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.720 and that the spinning top is Hers, so right there, 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.480 that's not just like, of course it works at the 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:12.720 end because it's hers. It carries so much emotional weight, 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:15.320 because we've learned how it's tied to her directly. It's 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.000 just not a chotchkey that Cob has pulled out just 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.040 so he can know if he's in a dream. And 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.440 then think about that opening sequence. I think this is 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:26.160 all set up from the beginning by Nolan when Cob 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:30.400 uses Mal's chair as an anchor in that dream while 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.960 repelling from the window, that captures everything about them, how 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.680 they're literally tied together in ways that are romantic, in 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:41.840 ways that are dangerous, and then the action implies, you know, 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.480 just the layers of their relationship that make us curious 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:47.760 about it. And really the rest of the movie, with 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:52.440 everything else going on, is peeling back that relationship, giving 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.120 us the implications what it means for Cob within this 0:16:55.320 --> 0:17:00.160 mission that he's undergoing, and comes absolutely to fruition in 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.360 that final scene, which is not so much about whether 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:06.119 he pulled off the job for Cyto, but what it 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:11.679 means for his relationship with his late wife. So I 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.600 just I thought it was it was important to me 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.399 in twenty ten, and revisiting it, I found it to 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:18.560 be even more important now. 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.879 Yeah, what it means for that relationship to me at 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:24.600 the end was nothing. And I kind of alluded to this, 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.600 what is the movie really leave you contemplating when it's 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:31.520 over the other movies that we've seen the Twist, the 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.080 other movies that I've appreciated more so far, they make 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.600 us rethink something about the movie. Sure, about the characters 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.040 and about the world, but you think about Memento and 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:41.720 you think about prestige and inception. 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:42.000 Here. 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:44.400 These are films that offer some of the same kind 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.080 of philosophical dilemmas that we talked about back in our 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:49.800 bonus content on Patreon when we talked about the movie 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:54.199 Dev's the many worlds kind of theorizing different states of 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:59.360 consciousness and inceptions. Twist seems to me nothing more than 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:03.440 exactly what it is. It's it's a suggestion and it's playful, 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:08.399 but it doesn't invite any further reflection beyond is Nolan 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:11.320 messing with us. It doesn't hit me in another way 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:12.120 because it's. 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:15.360 Not existential or philosophical. It's emotional. It's exactly the thing 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:16.160 that you say. 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:18.280 That I wanted it to be, but I didn't feel it. 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:19.360 I never felt it. 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:21.880 And it's because it's not about these larger questions. It's 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.560 about one question. Because no, it's about one question. Can 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:30.000 Cob forgive himself for what he did with his wife? 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.440 And so it's not about cares about that. 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:35.159 Oh my gosh, you spent half the film but I 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:37.840 don't know it. But why so much. 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:41.480 Screen time to their relationship, Because what he's really invested 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:44.520 in and what overwhelms those sequences and what makes them 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.960 feel like plot machinations, is that what he really cares 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:52.120 about is the fancy effects, even if it's practical, even 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.199 if I love even if I love Josh, how he 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:58.639 pulls them off. It's all the time and attention he 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.840 spends on that, rather than making me believe in any 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.760 way their relationship never at any point felt it. 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:06.959 But then, Adam, why is mal in one of the 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:11.520 very first scenes of the film, for for multiple reasons 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:15.560 as I described, And why is she figuratively with the 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:19.440 spinning top the very last image we see. I mean, 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.200 this is he's putting all the weight. I think part 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:24.840 of the problem is that, I agree, you're not left 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.680 thinking about, well, how many worlds are there? What if 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:29.119 we watch this movie backwards? 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:31.720 What a time I wanted? 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.119 But because what's what inception why it's a progression for 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.679 Nolan is because he's he's taken all those things to 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:43.760 get us through this and entertaining and thought provoking and 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:47.399 mind blowing ride. But at the end he's wrestling us 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:50.960 with a human emotional question and am I going to 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:54.879 be able to forgive myself? Is what Cob is asking for? 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:55.040 What? 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:57.560 For what I've done? And am I going to choose 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.200 to move forward? And then there are philosophical questions we 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:02.160 could get into. I mean, I don't think they're missed, Josh. 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.200 I get all of this intellectually. I understand that you're 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:07.320 explaining to me the structure of the film and what 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:10.240 Nolan wants us to feel. But there's a difference in 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:12.119 actually feeling it and I didn't. 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.000 I mean, you can't say it's not there. He spends 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:16.159 a lot of say time, it wasn't there for me. 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:18.399 I understand that he devotes a lot of time to it, 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.119 but it's it's minuscule in relation to the time he 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:25.480 devotes to the tedium of the action scenes and the 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:29.400 attention that he devotes to those. I feel ultimately like it. 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.840 It's an emotional crutch that feels more like he's trying 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.199 to give the movie a weight and a heft and 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:39.359 a certain romanticism. Even that just does not seem in 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.679 keeping with Nolan's strengths, at least not based on the 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:44.320 other films that we've seen so far. In the films 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:46.240 that I've appreciated more, which, like I said, it's not 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:50.880 because they're giving me a mind blowing twist about Wow, 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:52.679 how did he pull that off? They're giving me a 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:56.120 twist that makes me think about my world and how 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:59.639 I relate to people. And that's what's fascinating when I 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:01.679 have that personal connection to it. I'm just saying I 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:03.840 never believed it here. I never did. And part of 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:08.280 it is DiCaprio's performance too. And I love DiCaprio, and 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.560 I'm with you completely that every other supporting performer. 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:13.360 Does a better job. 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.199 And I think part of that is the explication in 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:18.800 the exposition I'm now going to be the one saying 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.760 the criticism that everyone else says about Interstellar, that I 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:24.000 didn't feel at all the time that I haven't felt 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:28.240 in the previous films, and I did hear for some reason. 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:30.320 I mean, Matt Singer wrote about it recently. I saw 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:32.760 his comments on Letterbox. He said, literally two full hours 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:35.240 into the movie, DiCaprio is still explaining the rules of 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:37.560