1
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:04,880
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios.

2
00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:13,880
Speaker 2: Podcasts, radio news. This is the Bloomberg Daybreak Europe podcast.

3
00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,759
Speaker 2: Good morning, It's Monday, the nineteenth of January. I'm Stephen

4
00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:21,040
Speaker 2: Carroll in London. Coming up today at Transatlantic power Play.

5
00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,280
Speaker 2: US President Donald Trump shakes the foundations of America's closest

6
00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,280
Speaker 2: alliances with the threat of fresh tariffs over Greenland. EU

7
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,160
Speaker 2: leaders plan a meeting to discuss their response, as Deutsche

8
00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,600
Speaker 2: Bank warns Europe may weaponize its US assets. Plus why

9
00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,120
Speaker 2: Soak the Rich? Battle over wealth taxes is gaining traction

10
00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,080
Speaker 2: across the world. Let's start with the roundup of our

11
00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,960
Speaker 2: top stories. European leaders have reacted with outrage to President

12
00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,279
Speaker 2: Trump's threat to impose tariffs on countries that oppose his

13
00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,280
Speaker 2: desire to own Greenland. On Saturday, the US President announce

14
00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,080
Speaker 2: day ten percent levy, due to take effect next month

15
00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,240
Speaker 2: and rising to twenty five percent by June on eight

16
00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,440
Speaker 2: European countries, including the UK, France, Germany and Denmark. The

17
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,680
Speaker 2: move came after they committed to holding token NATO military

18
00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,479
Speaker 2: drills in Greenland in a bid to show the continent's

19
00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,680
Speaker 2: commitment to Arctic security. But US Treasury Secretary Scott Besson

20
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,319
Speaker 2: says Europe is too weak to ensure the Arctic territory security.

21
00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:24,560
Speaker 3: If there weren't attack on Greenland from Russia from other area,

22
00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,600
Speaker 3: we would get dragged in. So better now peace through strength.

23
00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,839
Speaker 3: Make it part of the United States and there will

24
00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 3: not be a conflict because the United States right now

25
00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,039
Speaker 3: we are the hottest country in the world. We're the

26
00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,440
Speaker 3: strongest country in the world. The Europeans projected weakness, the

27
00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:41,479
Speaker 3: US projects straight.

28
00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,000
Speaker 2: Scott Besson's comments on NBC's Meet the Press came as

29
00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,880
Speaker 2: European leaders forcefully pushed back. The UK's Prime Minister car

30
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,320
Speaker 2: Starmer blasted the tariff threat as completely wrong, France's President

31
00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,200
Speaker 2: Emmanuel Macron called it unacceptable, and Swedish Prime Minister Ulf

32
00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,160
Speaker 2: Christensen said his country wouldn't be black men. The leaders

33
00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,080
Speaker 2: and I set to hold an emergency meeting in the

34
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:07,040
Speaker 2: coming days to discuss possible retaliation to Trump's latest tariff threat.

35
00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:11,200
Speaker 2: Member states are discussing several options, including retaliatory levies on

36
00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,600
Speaker 2: more than one hundred billion dollars of US goods. Meanwhile,

37
00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,519
Speaker 2: French President Emmanuel Macron says the Block should consider using

38
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:22,440
Speaker 2: its most powerful retaliatory tool, the Anti Coercion Instrument, that

39
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,680
Speaker 2: would allow the EU to impose additional tariffs, new taxes

40
00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,320
Speaker 2: on tech companies, or targeted curves on investment in the block.

41
00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,799
Speaker 2: Speaking on Sunday, Italian Prime Minister Georgia Maloney sought to

42
00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,480
Speaker 2: cool tensions between the world's biggest trading partners and said

43
00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,120
Speaker 2: she'd spoken to President.

44
00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,600
Speaker 1: Trump Ambishity brain there is request.

45
00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,360
Speaker 4: I think it is necessary instead to resume the dialogue

46
00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,880
Speaker 4: on this to avoid an escalation from this point of view,

47
00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,280
Speaker 4: and that is what I am working on. I spoke

48
00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,920
Speaker 4: with Donald Trump a few hours ago, to whom I

49
00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,720
Speaker 4: said what I think, and I spoke to the Secretary

50
00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,120
Speaker 4: General of NATO who confirms to me that NATO is

51
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,320
Speaker 4: starting to work from this point of view.

52
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:07,400
Speaker 2: Despite Georgia Maloney's efforts, Trump's plan to impose tariffs over

53
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,600
Speaker 2: Greenland calls into question the validity of the trade deal

54
00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,120
Speaker 2: agreed last year between the EU and the US. That

55
00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,280
Speaker 2: deal has already been partially implemented, but still needs a

56
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,200
Speaker 2: nod from the European Parliament, which is now likely to

57
00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:25,560
Speaker 2: halt approval. The geopolitics could risk a major market fallout.

58
00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,119
Speaker 2: According to Deutsche Bank, their Global head of FX Research,

59
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:33,560
Speaker 2: George Sarvelos notes that Europe is America's largest lender, with

60
00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,280
Speaker 2: its countries owning eight trillion dollars of US bonds and equities.

61
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:42,160
Speaker 2: Security expert Troy Bouffard says the US president is missing

62
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,040
Speaker 2: the potential consequences.

63
00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,600
Speaker 5: I think all of these signals, the rhetoric on the

64
00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:52,160
Speaker 5: sort of hostile takeover, articulations and behavior is all part

65
00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,760
Speaker 5: of this. He does a factor in the damage to relationships,

66
00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,120
Speaker 5: isolation of the United States and losing allies.

67
00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,840
Speaker 1: Zero sum game for him, with.

68
00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,440
Speaker 5: Not much appreciation for international relations in Foreign.

69
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:12,280
Speaker 2: Affairs, College of Business and Security Management Assistant Professor Troy Bouffard,

70
00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,080
Speaker 2: speaking there, US and European stock futures are both falling

71
00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,560
Speaker 2: on the news as traders turned to haven assets like gold.

72
00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,400
Speaker 2: The annual gathering of the world's business elite in Davos

73
00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,080
Speaker 2: are set to showcase the changing global economic order. This

74
00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,400
Speaker 2: year's World Economic Forum is set to be totally dominated

75
00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,520
Speaker 2: by Donald Trump's attendance, as well as the rising star

76
00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,239
Speaker 2: of Ai Bloomberg. James Wilcock has more.

77
00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:41,520
Speaker 6: The Davos Summits theme this year is a spirit of cooperation.

78
00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,440
Speaker 6: The irony was noted by former UK Prime Minister Richie Sunak,

79
00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,640
Speaker 6: who told Bloomberg the old order is gone. He added,

80
00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,720
Speaker 6: these are the most dangerous times in living memory, but

81
00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 6: also the most transformative. You can see that change reflected

82
00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 6: in the World Economic Forms agenda. In place of common

83
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,520
Speaker 6: versations about climate change and diversity. Expect the gathering to

84
00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,799
Speaker 6: now focus on AI dealmaking and above all, the presence

85
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,599
Speaker 6: of President Trump in London. Jase Ulcock Bloomberg Radio.

86
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,000
Speaker 2: China's economy lasts more momentum last quarter despite meeting the

87
00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,800
Speaker 2: government's five percent growth target. The world's second largest economy

88
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,919
Speaker 2: expanded by four point five percent last quarter compared to

89
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,920
Speaker 2: a year earlier. That's the slowest pace since the post

90
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,119
Speaker 2: COVID reopening in late twenty twenty two. Raymond Young, Chief

91
00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:34,800
Speaker 2: Greater Chief Greater China economist at ANZ says there's an

92
00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:36,880
Speaker 2: underlying weakness in the economy.

93
00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,520
Speaker 7: My worry is not about headline number. It's about the distribution.

94
00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,920
Speaker 7: Because now if you look at the unemployment number two

95
00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,560
Speaker 7: especially you've unemployment I expect to be a second digit

96
00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:49,239
Speaker 7: number still.

97
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:51,479
Speaker 1: I don't have the number for.

98
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,800
Speaker 7: December, but the November number sixteen point nine. It's higher

99
00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,719
Speaker 7: than the November November number last year or twenty twenty four.

100
00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,920
Speaker 2: Anz's Raymond Young speaking there. He went on to note

101
00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,840
Speaker 2: that the country's GDP figures were encouraging. For the full year,

102
00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,159
Speaker 2: the economy grew by five percent, according to data released

103
00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,440
Speaker 2: by the National Bureau of Statistics. That's matching twenty twenty

104
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:19,120
Speaker 2: four's pace of expansion. Meanwhile, China's consumer spending and business

105
00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,320
Speaker 2: investment remains sluggish as a week jobs market and falling

106
00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,880
Speaker 2: home prices way on domestic demand. In Spain, at least

107
00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,360
Speaker 2: twenty one people have been killed and dozens more injured

108
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,719
Speaker 2: in a high speed rail incident. A train traveling from

109
00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,120
Speaker 2: Malaga to Madrid derailed and hit another oncoming train in

110
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,480
Speaker 2: the province of Cordoba on Sunday evening. Here is Spanish

111
00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,000
Speaker 2: Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez speaking through an interpreter.

112
00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,360
Speaker 8: Tonight is a night of profound grief for our country.

113
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,240
Speaker 8: I would like to express my deepest condolences to the

114
00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,680
Speaker 8: families and loved ones of the victims. No words can

115
00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,560
Speaker 8: alleviate such great suffering, but I want you to know

116
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,080
Speaker 8: that the entire country stands with you during this difficult time.

117
00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,080
Speaker 2: Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez. They're speaking through an interpreter.

118
00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,960
Speaker 2: Spain's transport minister said the cause of the crash was

119
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,920
Speaker 2: unknown and more victims could still be confirmed. And those

120
00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,360
Speaker 2: are our top stories on the markets. European stock futures

121
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,480
Speaker 2: sharply lower, down one point two percent for Eurostock's fifty

122
00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,520
Speaker 2: futures this morning, looking at goal prices up by one

123
00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,960
Speaker 2: point seven percent. Four thousand, six hundred and sixty eight

124
00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,480
Speaker 2: dollars a troyes at Silver is also by three point

125
00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,840
Speaker 2: four percent as well on Wall Street, and the US

126
00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,240
Speaker 2: markets are closed for a holiday, but futures are still

127
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,040
Speaker 2: lower for equities, down one point one percent for NASTAG

128
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,680
Speaker 2: futures this morning. The Bloomberg Dollar Spot index is down

129
00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,760
Speaker 2: by two tenths of one percent. In a moment, more

130
00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,120
Speaker 2: on how Trump's latest moves on Greenland are hanging over

131
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,040
Speaker 2: the World Economic Forum in Davos. Plus our wealth taxes

132
00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:49,240
Speaker 2: the answer to Western government's fiscal woes, But another story

133
00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,360
Speaker 2: that we've been reading this morning, and the debate now

134
00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,160
Speaker 2: raging in Europe over whether or not to unpack the

135
00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:58,200
Speaker 2: EU's biggest trade weapon, given the threat of fresh tariffs

136
00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,960
Speaker 2: over Greenland Bloomberg Opinion columns. Leone Laurent has been writing

137
00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,600
Speaker 2: about this, and he says that European leaders must be

138
00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,040
Speaker 2: ready to play hardball if these levies materialize, and he

139
00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,960
Speaker 2: says that could include using the so called anti coercion instrument.

140
00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,680
Speaker 2: It's a tool that's designed to protect the EU when

141
00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,920
Speaker 2: it's put under tarer off pressure by foreign powers. Francis

142
00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,000
Speaker 2: Emanuel Macron among those already talking about using this. How

143
00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,920
Speaker 2: much support can it have among European leaders? They need

144
00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,360
Speaker 2: to have a qualified majority to be able to use

145
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:31,360
Speaker 2: this instrument. Lionel writes this rapidly approaching decision point and

146
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,480
Speaker 2: that Europe's mice must find their inner tigers. In response

147
00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:37,840
Speaker 2: to Donald Trumps letters action, you can read his piece

148
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,719
Speaker 2: at Blomberg dot com Forward Slash Opinion. Well, let's bring

149
00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:43,640
Speaker 2: you more now on that till I'm of facing European

150
00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,880
Speaker 2: leaders this as many of them will be traveling along

151
00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,680
Speaker 2: with the US President to Davos for the World Economic Forum.

152
00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,679
Speaker 2: They're also now planning an emergency summit to discuss the

153
00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,000
Speaker 2: latest tariff threats. Our Europe Executive editor Chad Thomas joins

154
00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,360
Speaker 2: US now from Davos for more.

155
00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:57,480
Speaker 1: Chad, good morning.

156
00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,319
Speaker 2: What sort of response should we expect from EU leaders

157
00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,400
Speaker 2: to these tariff threats? Will there be the support that's

158
00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,680
Speaker 2: needed for this anti coercion instrument?

159
00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,480
Speaker 9: Well, good morning, Stephen from Davos. I think we'll be

160
00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,280
Speaker 9: watching very closely the meetings that are taking place this

161
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,400
Speaker 9: week between EU leaders and looking into this matter.

162
00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,000
Speaker 1: I think it's hard to say how they're going to

163
00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:22,800
Speaker 1: come down on this.

164
00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,319
Speaker 9: So far, there has been a lot of talk, there

165
00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,760
Speaker 9: have been a lot of sharp words, but no decisions

166
00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,800
Speaker 9: have been made. The EU has tried very hard over

167
00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:35,680
Speaker 9: the last year to try and turn down the heat.

168
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,160
Speaker 1: They've tried to reach a.

169
00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,600
Speaker 9: Deal with Donald Trump and then hopefully move forward when

170
00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,200
Speaker 9: it comes to trade and security and all sorts of

171
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:49,679
Speaker 9: other matters on the anti coercion instrument. It's interesting because France,

172
00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,000
Speaker 9: Emanuel Macron, he has been the one who's really been

173
00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,120
Speaker 9: very vocal about this in the last couple of days,

174
00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,080
Speaker 9: he of course has been the one who's been pushing

175
00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,400
Speaker 9: for the use of it all along. Whether they can

176
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,840
Speaker 9: get that qualified majority to move forward that is.

177
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:07,520
Speaker 1: Remains really to be seen.

178
00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,320
Speaker 9: As we heard from Maloney just a little while ago,

179
00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,520
Speaker 9: she says she's trying to turn down the heat.

180
00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:16,600
Speaker 1: There are a lot of countries who don't.

181
00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,720
Speaker 9: Want to go this route because of the significant trade

182
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,800
Speaker 9: of course, they have with the US.

183
00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:23,600
Speaker 1: Now many countries in Europe.

184
00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,120
Speaker 2: But of course remember the long run up to the

185
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,040
Speaker 2: agreements that came last summer as well, and the ramping

186
00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,199
Speaker 2: up of threats on both sides that we had seen

187
00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,480
Speaker 2: as well. Does these latest developments show that that EU

188
00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:42,000
Speaker 2: strategy of trying to appease Donald Trump has failed? Can

189
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:43,440
Speaker 2: that still be salvaged?

190
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:45,480
Speaker 1: Well? Certainly.

191
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,079
Speaker 9: What the EU leaders have learned, Stephen, is that when

192
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,319
Speaker 9: you reach a deal, it doesn't mean that the deal

193
00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,720
Speaker 9: is done. That deal with Donald Trump is only a

194
00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,760
Speaker 9: deal for the moment. And so this appeasement that they

195
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,960
Speaker 9: have done, what some people would call appeasement with the US,

196
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,440
Speaker 9: hasn't led to them reaching a deal that then allowed

197
00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,840
Speaker 9: them to move forward in all of these different areas.

198
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,800
Speaker 9: With Donald Trump, every single issue that's important to him,

199
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:18,959
Speaker 9: everything is on the table again.

200
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,240
Speaker 1: And we've been speaking.

201
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,880
Speaker 9: In the last couple of days to dozens of people

202
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:29,320
Speaker 9: across the EU who have been privately acknowledging to us

203
00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,640
Speaker 9: that the tactics that they've.

204
00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,000
Speaker 1: Been using with the US have not been working.

205
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,600
Speaker 2: Could Davos be a forum where perhaps some sort of

206
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,360
Speaker 2: compromise could be broken now the official team is a

207
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,439
Speaker 2: spirit of cooperation seems particularly pointed given the backdrop. Is

208
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,920
Speaker 2: it a moment where maybe we may see these leaders

209
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,800
Speaker 2: come together and provide a de escalation to these tensions.

210
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,959
Speaker 9: Well, in Davos, there certainly have been over the years,

211
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,640
Speaker 9: having been covering here for more than a decade, moments

212
00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,280
Speaker 9: where things have happened that we're a big surprise, people

213
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,120
Speaker 9: who bump into one another in the hallways and have

214
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:10,720
Speaker 9: a conversation that leads to change of some sort. We

215
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:15,839
Speaker 9: have six of the seven G seven leaders attending, many

216
00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,000
Speaker 9: leaders from the EU. Of course, Donald Trump coming with

217
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:23,520
Speaker 9: a huge delegation from the US, So there's certainly that

218
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,200
Speaker 9: possibility and it's something that everyone is looking out for.

219
00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:31,240
Speaker 9: Everyone expects there to be significant discussions around the Greenland topic,

220
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,880
Speaker 9: around Ukraine, real President Trump meet with the Danish Prime minister.

221
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,720
Speaker 9: These are all things we'll be watching very closely. And

222
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,760
Speaker 9: when people get together in person in a forum like this,

223
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:47,120
Speaker 9: there is that chance that, as they say, a spirit

224
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:52,480
Speaker 9: of cooperation, some people would sort of wink at that

225
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,520
Speaker 9: that there could be some sort of deal reached.

226
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,920
Speaker 2: Okaychet Thomas R. Europe Executivedvisor, thank you very much for

227
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,600
Speaker 2: joining us, and of course, full coverage of US across

228
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,760
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's platforms all this week. Stay with us. More from

229
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,920
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Daybreak Europe coming up after this. Now, across the

230
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,120
Speaker 2: Western world, governments are turning towards a familiar source of

231
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:17,000
Speaker 2: funds to address their fiscal challenges, the wealthy. They're increasing

232
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 2: existing wealth taxes, planning new ones, and considering exit taxes

233
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,839
Speaker 2: for those who move. Bloomberg Charlie Wells has been writing

234
00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,520
Speaker 2: about this, and he joins us now for more. Charlie,

235
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,640
Speaker 2: how widespread is this trend? What are the common approaches

236
00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:31,560
Speaker 2: being taken to taxing the rich?

237
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,480
Speaker 10: Yes, Ste, So this is a policy trend that's kind

238
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,440
Speaker 10: of taking off on both sides of the Atlantic. And

239
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,160
Speaker 10: it's really interesting because it kind of brings up this

240
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,199
Speaker 10: old idea of a quote net wealth tax. So basically,

241
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,240
Speaker 10: governments kind of have about three general ways that they

242
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,360
Speaker 10: can tax people, right, they can tax their income, they

243
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,640
Speaker 10: can tax consumption, or they can tax their wealth. And

244
00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,720
Speaker 10: over the past couple decades, what we really have seen

245
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,120
Speaker 10: is kind of a breaking point that we've reached on income. Right,

246
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:02,520
Speaker 10: We've seen income taxes increase in a number of countries. Consumption,

247
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,240
Speaker 10: we have seen consumers really struggle with kind of the

248
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,080
Speaker 10: price of goods difficult there. And so what a number

249
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,640
Speaker 10: of policy makers are saying is, you know what, we've

250
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,360
Speaker 10: got to start looking at wealth, the value of stuff

251
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,120
Speaker 10: that people own. So you hear this in France, You've

252
00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,000
Speaker 10: heard this in the UK from a number of policy

253
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,480
Speaker 10: makers and number of political parties, and you're starting to

254
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,880
Speaker 10: hear this in the US and places like California, and

255
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,000
Speaker 10: so this is really kind of a shift because we

256
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,760
Speaker 10: really have been focusing on income tax over the past century, really,

257
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:33,920
Speaker 10: and now you're starting to hear this pick up in

258
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,120
Speaker 10: a lot of countries in this moment where there's a

259
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:37,760
Speaker 10: lot of fiscal pressure.

260
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,240
Speaker 2: And our wealth taxes a good way to raise tax revenue.

261
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 2: Are they a good solution to that fiscal pressure?

262
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:46,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this.

263
00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,640
Speaker 10: Is something that we've really been getting over the past

264
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,480
Speaker 10: few months as these proposals have started to come up

265
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,120
Speaker 10: from different pockets in different countries. And I think when

266
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,080
Speaker 10: you look to the past, you know there actually have

267
00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,280
Speaker 10: been wealth taxes, these net wealth taxes where you take

268
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,280
Speaker 10: the value of everything someone owns and then put a

269
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,480
Speaker 10: charge on that annually. They actually have not been that

270
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,280
Speaker 10: successful over the past, you know, couple decades in Europe.

271
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,240
Speaker 10: Back in the nineteen nineties, they were about a dozen

272
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,440
Speaker 10: countries that had these wealth taxes, but they have generally

273
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,960
Speaker 10: been phased out because they weren't so effective.

274
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:19,120
Speaker 1: But these are coming back.

275
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,640
Speaker 10: It's a trendy policy and it stirs up a motion

276
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:23,920
Speaker 10: and that's something that kind of comes on both sides

277
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,120
Speaker 10: and why we need a lot of nuance here because

278
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,760
Speaker 10: it can sound really attractive to kind of target the

279
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,720
Speaker 10: wealth of incredibly rich people. Really rich people can feel targeted.

280
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,720
Speaker 10: But you know, having reported the story, having talked to

281
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,800
Speaker 10: many tax professionals in many different countries, really what I

282
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,800
Speaker 10: got is these aren't super effective.

283
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:42,200
Speaker 1: There are a lot of trade offs.

284
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,760
Speaker 10: They can raise money, but you've really got to simplify

285
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:45,840
Speaker 10: in order to make things work.

286
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,440
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Daybreak Europe, your morning brief on the

287
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,560
Speaker 2: stories making news from London to Wall Street and beyond.

288
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,080
Speaker 11: Look for us on your podcast feed every morning, on Apple,

289
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,000
Speaker 11: Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts.

290
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 2: You can also listen live each morning on London DAB Radio,

291
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,840
Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Business app, and Bloomberg dot Com.

292
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,640
Speaker 11: Our flagship New York station, is also available on your

293
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:13,400
Speaker 11: Amazon Alexa devices. Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

294
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,040
Speaker 11: I'm Caroline Hipka.

295
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,240
Speaker 2: And I'm Stephen Carol. Join us again tomorrow morning for

296
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,720
Speaker 2: all the news you need to start your day right

297
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,400
Speaker 2: here on Bloomberg Daybreak Europe