WEBVTT - OpenAI Discusses Giving Altman 7% Stake in For-Profit Shift 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:10.719 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg business 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:13.960 Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:18.319 America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:22.840 tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:25.800 and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:29.040 We want to get to another story that was happening 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:31.520 late Wednesday as well, and that has to do with 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:32.760 one of the AI darlings. 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:33.000 Yeah. 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:34.880 Of course, we were talking yesterday about the departure of 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:38.680 Chief Technology Officer Mira Morati, chief research officer Bob McGrew, 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.920 and we've been hearing from Sam Altman from Open Ai 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.080 as well, talking about executive departures at the startup being 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:48.519 unrelated to restructuring that's happening at the company as it 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:52.760 considers moving to a for profit structure. Bloomberg Today reporting 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.480 that open Ai is discussing giving Sam Altman a seven 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.760 percent equity stake in the company as part of that restructuring. 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:02.800 Bring in co host of Bloomberg Technology, Ad Ludlow his 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:05.160 Nor San Francisco Bureau for more on this. Hey, Ed, 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:08.319 great to have you back on. I mean, let's try 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.160 and put all these pieces together, right, Are the executive departures, 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.200 as far as we know, linked to the restructuring that's 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:14.399 being discussed at open Ai. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.640 Yeah, we don't know. And Sam Altman, you know, fortunately 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.520 walked in front of a camera twelve hours after the 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:25.240 news broke and had every opportunity to explain it, and 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:29.440 he said, no, that they're relating to the individuals involved, 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:32.280 their personal lives and their professional lives and wanting to 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:34.760 do something new. But I would say that, you know, 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.880 sources were very clear that inside open ai, which is 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.960 a really important technology company, right, there's a lot at 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:43.360 stake here and the people that work there know that, 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:47.160 and they saw what these people who decided to leave 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:50.960 the company said, and internal slack channels and other comms 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.040 tools were basically like what is going on? Like this 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:57.960 is dodge, Like this is weird. But the long and 0:01:57.960 --> 0:01:59.440 short of it is, no, we do not know if 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:00.000 they are linked. 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:02.000 You know, we talk about open Ai. 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:03.960 The only reason I feel like we are talking so 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:06.160 much about open ai is when you go back almost 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.079 two years, right, and that big investment by Microsoft that 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:11.520 got us all talking about and focusing on this company. 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.560 Having said that, should we assume they're a big investor. 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.160 Should we assume that what's going on now kind of 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.720 has some consultation for Microsoft or not necessarily. 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:24.560 Yeah, So this is actually the opportunity to clarify something 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:29.880 that's really important. Microsoft is the single biggest investor into 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:33.160 open ai at this stage, and at one time it 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:37.280 held forty nine percent of the entity in which you 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.639 could invest, but it probably is less than forty nine 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:44.560 percent now because of the additional rounds of capital that 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:50.400 open ai has raised. And if I make a Carol, 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:52.560 I also would like to explain, like the structure of 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.079 open ai as it stands, so its origin was not 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.000 for profit, okay, and how it works right now is 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.919 you have a nonprofit in this country America, a five 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:06.280 oh one C three, a charity, and the for profit 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:10.280 business is a subsidiary of that. And the way that 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.120 open ai operates. And to answer your question is that 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:16.760 it now has a board who do not hold any 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:20.680 equity at all, and that board includes Sam Altman. So 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:24.239 there are two things that I'm answering here. One, Microsoft 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.000 owns a pretty big chunk of it, therefore doesn't have 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:29.760 a board seat. Sam Altman has a board seat. But 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.600 if he's to own equity. It raises a question about 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.160 him continuing to be on the board. And the whole 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.560 mechanism was put in place because they didn't want the 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:43.160 vested interests of shareholders to be competing with the mission 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.960 statement of the company, which is more around building artificial 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:50.280 intelligence that benefits society at large. Goodness, what a mouthful. 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.560 But how would that change if they did move to 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:57.360 the public benefit corporation status? How would that mission be 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:00.000 altered apart from what you and colleagues have been reporting about, 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.600 you know, potential equity stake and questions ever, Sam Oltman. 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.600 Yeah, again, I think it's really important state We just 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:10.520 don't know. I was on your show yesterday. You may 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:14.400 remember talking about Meta and there was a Reuter's report 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:18.040 that open Ai was moving to a for profit model, 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.240 was moving to a B corp. And what happened was 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:23.560 I was driving home from Menlo Park. I almost got 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.080 to the Golden Gate Bridge and a source phoned me 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.600 and told me what was going on, but clarified that 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:33.320 nothing legally has changed. Open ai is looking at all 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.720 kinds of mechanisms, so they haven't actually taken any action. 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:40.000 I think the Reuter's report probably went too far. But 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.039 the bee corp instrument is interesting. At the very basics 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.080 of a bee corp are that you are a for 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:50.120 profit business. There are examples out there like Patagonia. I'm 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:53.160 a Patagonia wearer. The apparel you may be familiar with it. 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.520 But in the by laws of the company, the sort 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.600 of lofty, big picture wildly goals and missions of the 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:03.919 company are codified. They're written down so you can pursue profit, 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:09.480 but you're also mandated to pursue those other goals as 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.000 well because they're in the by laws of your company. 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:13.839 Well, first of all, thank you for reminding me you 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:16.599 were the great reporter on Meta yesterday. I had forgotten 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:22.160 and and I'm just gonna say, open up a every 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:23.479 time we talk about it, I feel like it's just 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.400 a great B school case study because of just these 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:30.320 twists and turns, the ousting of Sam Altman, he's back 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.560 like it's just unbelievable, and it ain't over, that's for sure. 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.839 Ed Ludlow, you're the best co host of Bloomberg Technology 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.440 joining us. Of course, you can catch it out Bloomberg 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:42.279 TV eleven am Wall Street Time Monday through Friday. 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.560 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.839 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.040 on Apple card Play and then Bright Auto with a 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:55.720 Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:57.920 All right, we are so looking forward to our next guest. 0:05:57.960 --> 0:05:59.920 He's got a great vantage point in the global economy, 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.440 global mining, climate change. Just this past week for Toscue, 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.560 the world's fourth biggest iron ore miner, saying it will 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:07.839 pay two point eight billion to replace two thirds of 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:11.320 its fleet of hollage trucks and equipment in Western Australia 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.880 with EV versions as it seeks to cut diesel consumption 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.360 and meet ambitious emissions reduction targets. 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:18.120 There's a lot going on. 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:19.760 Yeah, they're sure is. And look we've got lots to 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:21.960 talk to Andrew Forrest about it, joins us in studio, 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.719 executive chairman and billionaire of Perth, Australia based Fordescu in 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:27.839 ten this week during the UN General Assembly and Climate 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:30.960 Week as well. Welcome to Bloomberg Business Week. How are you. 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:32.360 I'm on fire? 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:32.640 Thank you. 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:35.520 I'm just an exciting place right now. It certainly is. 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:37.600 And look at a time that we're going to talk 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:39.359 about your climate transition plan a moment, because that's a 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.800 really interesting conversation. We've spent all week talking about China 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.279 and the stimulus efforts being made there, and this is 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.279 a story that's very central to your business as well. 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.800 Imported iron ore used in roughly of eighty percent of 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:53.400 Chinese steel production. Talk to us about the picture that 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:55.880 you're seeing of the Chinese economy from your side of 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.560 the business and the demand. How bad is it? 0:06:59.279 --> 0:06:59.719 Oh? 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:00.720 Good is I mean? 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:03.960 Basically, you've had mining companies being fat, dumb and happy 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:05.800 for a very long time because the anal price has 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.400 been so good, so we're all heroes. But now, oh 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:10.720 my god, the annual price is fallen, which means it's 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:12.480 a lot better value, by the way, for the customer, 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:14.600 and we have to work a lot harder as mine is. 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.520 We have to work harder to actually make a margin. 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:19.640 And that's a good thing. And when people think that 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:21.880 one throe, they think, well, how do I lower my margins? Well, 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:26.520 one third of my cost is diesel fuel, one third, right, 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:28.920 one third? Imagine if we get rid of that. 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:30.440 Oh, by the way, we'd also. 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.920 Be going zero missions if we did that. So we've 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:34.720 been working on this for years and years and years, 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.680 and to give you an idea of how strong that 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.200 demand is because people are looking hard at their operating costs. Now, 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.000 we took years and years to get up at three 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:46.360 hundred and sixty truck order. Now these are big trucks, right, 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:48.720 You've got the hub caps starting at the roof here. 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:54.600 And yesterday we signed another hundred and got walkins for 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:59.440 another four hundred in our day. So from three or 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:02.320 four years, three sixty for a day for another five hundred. 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:06.080 So this is showing you that the mining industry is saying, hey, 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.160 we've got to really look at operating costs. And FORESCU 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:11.480 at middle is driven because it wanted to go zero missions, 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.840 because we bloody will have to as a human race. 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.600 But then we also have to prove that it's highly commercial. 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.920 And what you're seeing happen yesterday and today is that 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.400 going zero missions is highly commercial. 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:26.320 Just say you're not worried about China. 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:29.240 I mean, I've just come from China and I've just 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.960 I mean, I get accused when I'm in Chinese, when 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.800 I'm a China being very pro North American. When I'm 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:38.680 in North America, I get accutes of being v being 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:39.640 very pro China. 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:43.000 So no, but this is interesting. Look and love you both. 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:47.120 The narrative is so negative and has been for so large. 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:50.400 The problem I'm afraid you're wrong. 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:51.840 You are wrong. I mean. 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:56.240 Here in North America you have a completely different system. 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.080 You get lag effects and lowering interest rates and things 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.960 like that, and it's it's macroeconomic policy and it works 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:03.800 really well over a long time. 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:04.640 If they want to. 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.160 Hit the accelerator, hit the brakes, you know, you see 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.120 the impact straight away. So they did a little bit 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:11.679 of priming, not much. I got to say, as a 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.840 percentage of GDP, you'd be hard to measure it. But 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.720 that is kicked investments straight away. It's kicked the iron 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:20.360 or price's kicked iron or demand. 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:22.360 It's a five percent growth nar a concern. It's going 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:22.760 to happen. 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.360 Look, I'm completely not worried about it. And by the way, 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:30.079 if it's four or six, I know big countries who'd 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:33.080 love to get two or three. So you know, for 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:36.000 our demand, I'm seeing the iore price come down and 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:37.040 I'm saying good. 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.800 So Andrew, Basically, what you're saying is China's like, okay, 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:40.839 if it still isn't enough. 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:41.760 We're going to do more. 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:42.679 Yeah. 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.040 And also, you know, I love North America because we're 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.520 aligned with North America. I love China because they're actually 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:51.880 leading the world on going green. I mean, they are 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.760 way ahead of their own plan. And you know everyone, 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:57.959 I mean North America and China kicking the hell out 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:01.560 of each other is really bad for the overall human race. 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:05.599 This geostrategic war between North America precipitate, I want to 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:09.560 put it bluntly by North America. And look, China does 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:11.400 all these things wrong too, And you can jump on 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:13.360 their toes, but you jump on their toes in private. 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:15.800 You don't do it by shouting at them from New 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:16.959 York or Washington DC. 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:19.520 Well, does that then worry you about who's in the 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:23.839 White House come November? Because there is people who have 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:25.480 a softer touch and people who don't. 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.640 Fortescue has a policy that we deal with any elected 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.840 leadership that usuckers want to put up right. So you know, 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:35.280 if you want to put up Trump, I've got to 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.560 say this Ukraine badge. If there's a deal cut which 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:43.400 rewards an invader for invading a country which you've had 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:45.320 as an enemy for eighty years and you go cut 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:47.360 a deal and reward a bad guy for being bad. 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.240 We're down in the Pacific and we're going to say, 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:54.599 hold the phone. If you're going to trade Ukraine against Russia, 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.040 where do we sit with North America? I mean, where 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.400 do we sit? I mean, who do we now call 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:01.199 a friend? If you if you're going to turn around 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:02.400 and do that to Europe. 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:07.160 Right, I mean, you're obviously very plugged into geopolitical tensions 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:09.480 because it's part of what affects your business as well. 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.559 When you're thinking about global climate solutions, and you gave 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:15.960 us some of the outlines of your plan there as well. 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.040 There's some people that are going to think it's highly 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.320 ironic that a mining company would be looking at a 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:21.000 green transition. 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:21.640 I agree with them. 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:24.840 What you know, green iron or what is that is? 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:26.880 That is? Do these things really make a difference when 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.760 it comes to the bottom line of limiting climate change. 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.280 Let's start with three million tons of carbon docks, so 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:34.120 I'm not going out in the atmosphere. I mean, let's 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.200 just start there, and then then let's realize that no 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:39.320 one's ever going to make green iron or green steel, 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.360 which is ten percent of the carbon budget Now we're 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.240 talking huge unless you start with green iron or so 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:46.720 the fact we're going to green iron or within a 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.320 few years means that we can then go to green 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.400 iron or green steel. Now that's starting to have a 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:56.640 massive impact because we do that economically, then the pollution 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.120 which is currently suffered all over the world, particularly in 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.599 China where they're where they put their steel mills on 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.360 the outskirts of their cities central plan, but their cities 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:06.800 grew so much bigger. So now the steel mills inside 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:12.000 the city, we send them totally pollution free metal. Their 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.079 pollution problem goes out the window. 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.280 So that there is a. 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:23.840 Really big impact on this slow, lethargic backward industry called mining, 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:28.360 ironically leading the world to go green, and it's hitting 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:32.000 where the pollution is worse, and it's not saying, oh, well, 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:34.520 we've got to continue burning all in gas because there's 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:36.160 such lovely people and we have to look after and 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.800 we're saying, actually, oil and gas has got us into 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.160 this manure. We've got to stop doing what we've always 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.480 done if we want a different result, and switch off 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:46.640 the oil and gas, and then we'll get a different result. 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.959 And that's like green steel that's like green shipping. 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.280 Exactly though, is green iron ore? And what does it 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:56.000 cost versus other iron ore? And is it cost competitive? 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.160 Yeh, No, it's going to cost less, man, because we 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.480 can make it for less because we're not chopping through 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:04.640 a billion a billion leaders of diesel, like nearly five 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.120 hundred million gallons of diesel. We're not going to buy anymore, 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.199 you know, because we're making it ourselves. 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:11.240 So is it cost competitive already? 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:11.840 Yeah? 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:15.160 Hell yeah, yeah yeah, that's the beauty of it, which 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:18.160 is why I'm saying, listen, stop looking at gying green, 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:20.640 stop looking at zero missions as Oh you're a really 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:22.800 nice guy, what a lovely chief executive, what a lovely 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:26.760 politician thinking of the kids, not himself. Actually, get out 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:30.000 of your hole. This is a great investment. You should 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.280 be doing this for your shareholders. And if you say 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.360 you can't go green, well you're right. Get off the 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:36.439 stage and let on someone smarter who can. 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.040 But why isn't everyone doing it? If the case is 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:39.800 that simple. 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:40.280 And done it sooner? 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:44.560 Because everything starts somewhere, right, everything starts somewhere. I'm in 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.520 the suit, you're you're getting started with a thread, mate. 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.000 It turned out to be a suit. So we're the thread. 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.320 Talking about the conversations you're having here in New York 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:56.040 as well. Are people getting the message? People are getting 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:57.679 the message? Yeah, I mean, you know, we look at 0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:59.320 we look at the pullback on green, agender and so 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:00.920 many parts of the world at the moment we see 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:03.280 it reflected and polling and election results. 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.280 Is that playing that's an opportunity for us. Okay, that's 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:09.200 a serious opportunity. I mean, we are pushing head going 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:12.040 green as quickly as possible. We've got technology which can 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.800 take the water in here side a stirly water bottle, 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.400 turn it into the most powerful fuel the walls ever had, 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.080 which is hydrogen. When we turn it from gas liquid 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:25.320 to really serious energy except soackt water. And we're working 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.560 out how to produce that. It's not pure we call 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.720 it in dustrial huydgen, but a fraction of the cost. 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.840 Where we've worked out already how to charge cars not 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.720 in twenty two hours or even eight hours, but in 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:41.320 twenty two seconds. Okay, And these are the fastest electric 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.360 cars in the world, like Formula E winners all the time. 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.840 We've worked out how to charge our huge trucks in 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:51.560 twenty four minutes, and I've had your US generals say 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.240 to me, hey, hey, you understand the US military can 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:56.200 never go green. I said, why is that, man? They said, well, 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.280 our tanks they're fifty sixty tons and they've got to 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.120 go fifty mile. And I said, well, hang on, mate, 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.640 our trucks are four hundred tons and they've got to 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.520 go sixty mile an out they're green. And they've said, well, 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:09.400 you know, shipping shipping our warships. Our warships are like 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:11.920 one hundred meters long. Andrew I said, honestly, mate, we 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:13.520 could put three of your warships on the back of 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:15.880 our iron ore carriers. They're three hundred and thirty meters long, 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:19.480 and we're sending them green so everyone can go green. 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:21.200 I am curious if you guys are going to be 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.600 also building wind farms, solar forums right next farms, excuse me, 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.280 right next to some of your mind to help supply 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:29.680 green power. Like, what's is that part of the process. 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:30.680 Yeah, it is. 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.480 It is absolutely and will supply power us and power 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.080 of others. Right now, we're operating a green grid. It's 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.360 the first fully independent green grid in the world. It 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.840 will be the largest of course, because it'll be producing 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.760 enough power the size of small countries, and it'll be 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.120 a full grid, but it'll be off the standard grid, 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.960 and that means that we can put this all over 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:51.320 the world. 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:54.720 I want to come back to hydrogen because it's been 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:56.120 talked about for many years. It's been a lot of 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.280 money put behind us yet to yield results. Where are 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.320 the obstacles? How far away is it from being Some 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.480 mean it's going to be widespread, available, and more heavily 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:04.520 used as an energy for them. 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.520 Okay, the only thing stopping the production of green heighten 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.240 North America. I mean, let's just remember that there's more 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.160 people employed in the renewable energy sector in the fossil 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.640 fuel old state of Texas than there are now is 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:19.960 by fossil fuel. So everything is changing. What we're seeing 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:23.720 now is the whole growth, this massive growth of green 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:27.360 heighten green energy being held up by perfect getting in 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.720 the road of the good in the IRA. And if 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.240 we don't fix what a little thing called forty five V, 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.520 which is where the fossil fuel sector's got these environmental 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.280 independent lobbyists to say, hey, look we should have things 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:44.120 like ali matching. Well, okay, that's perfect. 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:45.600 Parts of your own industry are working against this. 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:48.720 Yeah, I mean, but it's not my industry. It's the 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:52.040 environmental lobby is paid ball by fossil fuel. It's the 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:57.000 same same draw cards, same playbook as tobacco used. They 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:00.080 get so called scientists and to say tobacco doesn't kill you, mate, So. 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.040 It's money again, it's politics and it's lobby. 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:04.320 Yeah, and we have to, Carol, we have to look 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:07.400 straight through that and say to your legislators and your legislators, 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:08.919 I've got to say, actually, we're not going to let 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.800 perfect kill off the good. We No green hydrant is 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:17.560 the answer. We will have weekly month matching or monthly matching. 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.399 But hourly matching just means the person who came up 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:22.960 with that's never driven or operated anything more complex than 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.440 a bloody computer, not these one two three mile long 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:27.760 plants which I have to operate. 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:28.920 So thirty seconds left? 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.439 Are you more optimistic after your time here in New 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.479 York and talking with global leaders North American leaders, US leaders? 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:36.080 Are you more pessimistic? 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:36.639 Just quickly? 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.600 No, I'm more optimistic. I'm more optimist. 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:43.800 Because they trust what someone does more than what someone says, 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:45.760 and they can see we're doing it. They can see 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:51.040 Australia's high sharehold return company ever is going fully green 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:52.800 and there's got to be a reason for that. And 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.160 they're making huge sales and they're profitable. 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:56.439 So we want to be smart and fun. When you 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:57.280 came in, did we do it? 0:17:57.600 --> 0:17:57.840 Yeah? 0:17:57.880 --> 0:17:58.760 You're smart and funny. 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:00.760 I love such pressure. 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.160 Andrew Forrest, thank you so much, Executive chair of course 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:04.719 at FORDESK. 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.160 You joining us right here on Bloomberg Business Week. 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:13.600 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.920 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on applecar Play 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:19.800 and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.080 also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.760 York station. Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:29.080 We are very. 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.320 Global all this week here on Bloomberg Business Week, and 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:33.960 we've had this week the opportunity to focus on economic 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.639 issues in different regions of the world and how the 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.360 changing climate is altering many countries trajectories. 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:39.720 Well. 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:43.639 The African Development Bank finances projects across the continent in 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:48.000 areas including agriculture, energy, also the private sector development, and 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.199 we know those African countries something we talk about a 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.560 lot here at Bloomberg are among those most affected by 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:54.680