Speaker 1: Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about
Speaker 1: queer sex. Filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities.
Speaker 1: If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more
Speaker 1: offense your sensibilities, you might want to skip this Viewer
Speaker 1: discretion is advised. It's definitely not for kids.
Speaker 2: Put your pussy up, put your put your pussy up,
Speaker 2: put your pussy up, put you, put your pussy up.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.
Speaker 2: I'm Gabeln Sadez and.
Speaker 3: I'm christtison Rosso. Each week we explore the sublime world
Speaker 3: of queer sex, cruising, and relationships.
Speaker 1: We talked to queer folks of all kinds. We'll ask
Speaker 1: some questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations, and provide
Speaker 1: practical advice that you can use at home. Put joy,
Speaker 1: put your put yo, pussy, put jo, put put your put.
Speaker 4: Put your puts up.
Speaker 3: So Gabe, yes, Chris, do you remember the first time
Speaker 3: you heard about prop Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, the year was nineteen fifty two.
Speaker 4: No. I.
Speaker 1: One of my first jobs out of college was editing
Speaker 1: for a gay porn studio. My boss was HIV positive,
Speaker 1: and he told me that he had just learned that
Speaker 1: PREP had been improved by the FDA in twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: and he was undetectable. And he had sort of explained
Speaker 1: to me what you equals you is undetectable equals untransmissible. Right.
Speaker 1: If somebody who's HIV positive is taking their medications regularly
Speaker 1: and being treated, they're undetectable and therefore they cannot transmit
Speaker 1: HIV to you. And this all started because I had
Speaker 1: had a hookup with someone who was HIV positive and
Speaker 1: so despite the fact that it was perfectly safe for me,
Speaker 1: whatever that means for you, right, I was like kind
Speaker 1: of anxious about it. My boss he was like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you know you can get on PREP and I had
Speaker 1: never heard about it. So I started like serving the
Speaker 1: porn performers we would work with. I'd be like, hey,
Speaker 1: are you a PREP?
Speaker 2: Have you tried it? Like ah ah, where'd you get it?
Speaker 4: About this?
Speaker 1: Like I was literally every girl and they were like, yes, girl,
Speaker 1: I've been on it for six months. Like it changed
Speaker 1: the game. And it was so funny because at the
Speaker 1: time I was working.
Speaker 2: For a bareback or condomless studio.
Speaker 1: Usually there would be testing and you know, talent would disclose,
Speaker 1: but often there were zero discordant couples or groups being
Speaker 1: paired on camera, so they all were very aware of
Speaker 1: what PREP was. And you know, this is also the
Speaker 1: era when a lot of porn studios, folks like Michael
Speaker 1: Lucas or folks like Larry Kramer, were very negative about PREP. Right,
Speaker 1: this was very early days, and a lot of the
Speaker 1: data that was coming out was being questioned, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes without reason, and a lot of these scare tactics
Speaker 1: that people hold on to, and a lot of the
Speaker 1: fear that people was going to hold on too from
Speaker 1: the nineties and early two thousands still kind of impacted
Speaker 1: the perception. So I literally, I think until the age
Speaker 1: of sixteen or seventeen, I thought you just magically got
Speaker 1: HIV if you had condomless sex with another gay man.
Speaker 1: So very grateful to the porn world because they gave
Speaker 1: me the education that no teacher in Florida did and
Speaker 1: very few of my friends could have at the time. So, Chris,
Speaker 1: how about you, I'm very curious when did you learn
Speaker 1: about PREP and has it impacted the sort of sex
Speaker 1: ring or the sort of partners you seek out in
Speaker 1: your life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I didn't hear about PREP for a long time.
Speaker 3: I am HIV positive. I have been since two thousand
Speaker 3: and five. I didn't hear about it because, like, my
Speaker 3: doctor is not gonna tell me about product because like
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm it's it's too late.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is our Angels in America audition right now.
Speaker 2: It was too late.
Speaker 3: I started using Crystal method having sex round the same time,
Speaker 3: and so there wasn't a lot of conversations around safer
Speaker 3: sex and those spaces, and so for six years from
Speaker 3: the time I started having sex, and so the time
Speaker 3: I tested positive, I knew that I was engaging in
Speaker 3: risky behavior and I just didn't care. I did have
Speaker 3: a really good friend and he worked in HIV care.
Speaker 3: So like one day he like shows up to my
Speaker 3: apartment and he was like, we're gonna go get you
Speaker 3: tested and got the results.
Speaker 2: My friend immediately clocked it.
Speaker 3: Like I was in there for a while because like
Speaker 3: I had a compleat eat breakdown. Yeah, I remember really
Speaker 3: feeling alone because I didn't have people.
Speaker 2: The first year or so was really really, really difficult.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I didn't really hear about PREP for a while.
Speaker 3: Honestly, I couldn't really tell you when the first time
Speaker 3: I heard about it was and what the context was
Speaker 3: it might have been on an app. From the beginning,
Speaker 3: was always very clear that like, IMHIV positive and like
Speaker 3: if you're cool with that or you're not, I'm not
Speaker 3: going to waste time.
Speaker 2: Like if you're going to reject me, then to reject me.
Speaker 3: There are plenty of people in New York that I
Speaker 3: can fuck, and like for a while there there was
Speaker 3: a lot of like sero sorting. You know, I was
Speaker 3: only hooking up with other HIV positive people just because
Speaker 3: there was like less to like worry about.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, And I'm sure there must have been a
Speaker 1: i don't know, very difficult time to also engage with
Speaker 1: trying to find sexual partners or dating partners. You still
Speaker 1: got this like post nineties like scare right, everybody's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, but it's like pre prep right. So
Speaker 1: it's like a lot of headway had been made in
Speaker 1: terms of treatment, in terms of medication that HIV positive
Speaker 1: people could take to live long, healthy lives, but it
Speaker 1: just felt like the knowledge and the grace and the
Speaker 1: accuracy was still lacking. Yeah, it is to this day.
Speaker 3: I mean, and there were still people dying from its
Speaker 3: related like in the early two thousands, Let's be clear,
Speaker 3: Like people were still dying from the disease, like, and
Speaker 3: that is a thing that I think a lot of
Speaker 3: folks kind of forget. And the way that we engage
Speaker 3: around treatment is different today than it was back then
Speaker 3: to Like when I first tested positive, they didn't give
Speaker 3: me medication right away. They said that your numbers were
Speaker 3: good enough, your viral lod isn't crazy high, so we're
Speaker 3: not going to put you on any medication.
Speaker 2: Which is not the way that they treat the disease
Speaker 2: today today.
Speaker 3: Like you test positive, you're on medication immediately because we
Speaker 3: want to get you to the U equals you.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the word undetectable wasn't something that entered my
Speaker 1: vocabulary until shortly before I found out about PREP.
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was twenty twelve when the FDA approved the
Speaker 1: use of PREP, medication that was already being used to
Speaker 1: keep HIV positive people undetectable as a tool to prevent
Speaker 1: HIV transmission and serial conversions.
Speaker 3: During its early year. Its prop was controversial, to say
Speaker 3: the least, because it up ended the established approach to
Speaker 3: safer sex, which prioritize condoms above all else.
Speaker 1: Most of the conversations surrounding PREP has focused on its
Speaker 1: impact on HIV negative.
Speaker 3: People, but PREP had an impact on queers living with
Speaker 3: HIV two and today we're going to have that discussion.
Speaker 1: We're going to look back on thirteen years of PREP
Speaker 1: exploring how it's changed the lives and sexual behaviors of
Speaker 1: both HIV positive and negative people. It's time to meet
Speaker 1: our first guest. Daniel Sanchez Torres is a San Francisco
Speaker 1: based writer and editor who has covered topics like photography, literature, film, relationships,
Speaker 1: HIV and pandemics.
Speaker 3: He's a member of the collective What would an HIV
Speaker 3: Doula Do? They create art, informational materials, and engage in
Speaker 3: discussions about aspects of HIV care and community.
Speaker 1: Most recently, Daniel has written a series of essays about
Speaker 1: his history of cruising in the San Francisco Bay Area
Speaker 1: with Everything Matters Press called Cruising with the King of Sex.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Snippy's Cruising Confessions, The King of Sex, Daniel
Speaker 3: Sinja's Daughters.
Speaker 2: Hi Daniel, how are you hi?
Speaker 4: Hi?
Speaker 1: Hi?
Speaker 4: I should clarify I did not give myself that title.
Speaker 4: Somebody else gave me that title, So okay, you know
Speaker 4: it's something that I sometimes claim.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're living up to the responsibility every day though, right.
Speaker 4: You know, I worked very, very hard to overcompensate.
Speaker 1: Daniel, Before we dive too deep into your title on
Speaker 1: how you earned it, I would love to hear a
Speaker 1: little bit about Ring Up near San Francisco, which has
Speaker 1: a long history, not just as a gay hotspot, but
Speaker 1: as a place where a lot of important strides were
Speaker 1: made in HIV, AIDS activism and community care.
Speaker 4: It's this weird thing, like I grew up in the
Speaker 4: Bay Area. It's super open, it's super queer. It has
Speaker 4: its history. But I also grew up like in the suburbs.
Speaker 4: The city was thirty minutes away, so it was kind
Speaker 4: of this thing of like, oh, it took me a
Speaker 4: while to kind of find people that I wanted to
Speaker 4: have sex with. Because I like graduated from high school,
Speaker 4: I went to community college. I was kind of a
Speaker 4: fuck boy, Like I was just kind of having a
Speaker 4: good time. And when I was eighteen, I traded my
Speaker 4: virginity for HIV, and so I was like with my
Speaker 4: mom in the doctor's office and my doctor's telling me
Speaker 4: that I'm HIV positive and I'm sitting there like, great,
Speaker 4: my mom's in the waiting room, you're telling her.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 4: I think that was sort of the big moment of
Speaker 4: like me coming out of like if you weren't sure before, Yeah,
Speaker 4: this is why I have a pretty positive confirmation that
Speaker 4: I am very gay.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if I can ask what your reaction to
Speaker 1: that news was, especially given that your mom was in
Speaker 1: the waiting room, Like what were your first thoughts and
Speaker 1: how did you and your family react to the diagnosis afterward?
Speaker 4: So it was terrible timing to get HIV. I mean,
Speaker 4: is there ever really a good time? I don't know,
Speaker 4: maybe like a spring, but I ended up so converting
Speaker 4: like over over the winter holiday. So I had like
Speaker 4: graduated from high school at all this summer, and then
Speaker 4: I was it was like fucking around during the fall
Speaker 4: and I ended up getting like hospitalized. My fever was
Speaker 4: so high that they had to put like an ice
Speaker 4: blanket on me to just like get my fever to
Speaker 4: come down. So that was like super intense, And because
Speaker 4: of the holidays, I didn't even get a chance to
Speaker 4: see my doctor until the new year, so I kind
Speaker 4: of had this feeling of like, oh, I was just sick.
Speaker 4: It's fine, it'll be chill. And then when I had
Speaker 4: like this follow up appointment with my doctor, I very
Speaker 4: distinctly remember like seeing all of these plaques on the
Speaker 4: wall of like achievement in HIV studies. And I sat
Speaker 4: there looking on all these like plaques and stuff, and
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, he might just be giving me
Speaker 4: like a stern talking too about like my behavior. And
Speaker 4: he walked in and was like, you're HIV positive, and
Speaker 4: I was like, oh shit. I still very distinctly remember
Speaker 4: that office appointment and that being in that room and
Speaker 4: like my mom was freaking out, and my mom like
Speaker 4: asked the doctor like you know, like through teary eyes
Speaker 4: and like shaking breath, like you know, is he going
Speaker 4: to die? And the doctor looked at her and said,
Speaker 4: We're all gonna die. That's just really stuck with me.
Speaker 4: I have this constant like monologue in my head of like, oh,
Speaker 4: we're all going to die, Like we're all going to die.
Speaker 4: And my mortality is very much like I'm very aware
Speaker 4: of it, and for better or worse, like it leads
Speaker 4: me to great decisions. And that's a great decisions because
Speaker 4: I'm just like fuck it, yo, know, let's go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I kind of wish that I had had someone
Speaker 3: to tell my mom that I was HIV positive.
Speaker 4: It's really helpful. That's my advice. If you're trying to
Speaker 4: be positive, get somebody else.
Speaker 3: So, like I was out of the country for like
Speaker 3: four months, like as I was zero converting, and like
Speaker 3: it was horrendous. I'm nineteen years old, I'm on tour.
Speaker 3: I'm going to have a conversation with my parents.
Speaker 4: You come back from a tour and your mom's like,
Speaker 4: what'd you bring me in? And You're like, I got
Speaker 4: you told me to have a positive experience.
Speaker 3: She came around, but it took some time. I know,
Speaker 3: a lot of conversations. She watched the AIDS epidemic happen
Speaker 3: and was really terrified for what that meant for me,
Speaker 3: Like when she got more education on the science around it.
Speaker 3: Like she came around and she saw me living in
Speaker 3: like a very full and healthy life. You know, I
Speaker 3: wasn't like sick ever.
Speaker 1: Daniel, you have an essay about cruising and your experiences
Speaker 1: with HIV called Cruising with the King of Sex. Can
Speaker 1: you tell me more about the essay and where this
Speaker 1: excellent nickname came from.
Speaker 4: Yes, the essay is really just kind of thinking about,
Speaker 4: like my history with sex, how HIV has impacted my
Speaker 4: relationship to sex, how I've changed as a person. I
Speaker 4: do think that sometimes I can be a great person
Speaker 4: to have sex with, and it was also thinking about
Speaker 4: like why is that? Like why did that happen? A
Speaker 4: lot of it was overcompensating for my HIV. I think
Speaker 4: a lot of what my headspace was at was like,
Speaker 4: if I'm a risky person that have sex with, then
Speaker 4: I'm going to do everything I can to make the
Speaker 4: risk worth it. And I think that's part of how
Speaker 4: I kind of got this title.
Speaker 1: I'm curious if I can ask, when you cruise, when
Speaker 1: you use the apps, when you meet new folks, how
Speaker 1: do you sort of handle the disclosure question?
Speaker 4: I mean, I think what's been interesting about cruising is that,
Speaker 4: you know, I feel like the core of it and
Speaker 4: kind of what makes it fun and what makes it
Speaker 4: enjoyable is the anonymity. So like, I'm not having conversations
Speaker 4: about my HIV with people, and that requires a little
Speaker 4: bit of personal responsibility. I wasn't always comfortable with not
Speaker 4: being so open about it, and now I'm just kind
Speaker 4: of fine with it because I think it's sort of
Speaker 4: to the point of like education and knowing about your
Speaker 4: body and knowing about HIV and knowing about these things.
Speaker 4: I'm the safest person that you can have sex with.
Speaker 4: Like somebody who is HIV positive and on meds and undetectable,
Speaker 4: They're not going to give you HIV. I find disclosure
Speaker 4: to be like a very intimate thing, and the situations
Speaker 4: that I have gotten into that have been complicated have
Speaker 4: been sort of the hookups that are not a one
Speaker 4: off thing. In those moments and the times that I've
Speaker 4: had those conversations, They've always been pleasant and they've always
Speaker 4: been fine, And I think it's mostly because they wanted
Speaker 4: to keep having sex with me. So I think leading
Speaker 4: with really great sex is really helpful for disclosure.
Speaker 3: The way that I disclosed today is different than the
Speaker 3: way that I disclosed fifteen years ago. I've been positive
Speaker 3: for twenty years now, and the drugs have changed. The
Speaker 3: science around you equals you has changed, right, the information
Speaker 3: that he has has changed. So in the beginning, every
Speaker 3: single person I came in contact with I was disclosing.
Speaker 3: Today I have it on my apps. If someone is
Speaker 3: like looking at my profile, it is up there. I
Speaker 3: talk about it. I say that I'm undetectable. I'm less
Speaker 3: likely to have that conversation in the dark room.
Speaker 1: You'll hear Chris saying things in the dark room, but
Speaker 1: it won't be about that.
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, I'm usually saying actually in the dark room,
Speaker 2: I get called that first singing.
Speaker 1: And if you ever hear like humming that sounds like
Speaker 1: someone's humming into someone else's butt, that is.
Speaker 2: But today, like, yeah, it's just a little bit different.
Speaker 3: I'm only having that disclosure conversation if I'm meeting someone
Speaker 3: out and we decide that we're going on a date
Speaker 3: or something in that sense, then I'm having like the
Speaker 3: disclosure conversation. But outside of that, I don't think I
Speaker 3: need to have it unless it's going to be something
Speaker 3: like I'm in a romantic situation with you, and I
Speaker 3: think it's important that you should know this.
Speaker 1: We talked a lot about how PREP hasn't fundamentally changed
Speaker 1: the way you go about your life. But I'm wondering,
Speaker 1: if you know, since the FDA approved PREP in twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: if you've seen a difference is in the experiences that
Speaker 1: you're with partners, when you're hooking up, when you're cruising.
Speaker 4: I do think that PREP has really sort of taken
Speaker 4: away the responsibility of people having a conversation about HIV
Speaker 4: and about STIs in terms of like a difference. I
Speaker 4: don't even know if I would call it a difference,
Speaker 4: but just something that I've noticed. The people who are
Speaker 4: not going to have sex with me before PREP because
Speaker 4: of my HIV are not going to have sex with
Speaker 4: me after PREP because of my HIV. I'm just one person,
Speaker 4: But anecdotally, I don't really know that PREP has really
Speaker 4: done away with stigma as much as it has done
Speaker 4: away with having an opportunity to have the conversation. And
Speaker 4: you know, at the same time, like I'm not trying
Speaker 4: to have a conversation about it either, So it is
Speaker 4: kind of a thing that I just sort of had
Speaker 4: to accept.
Speaker 3: I think I have to agree with you on that one, actually,
Speaker 3: and I hadn't really thought about it that way until
Speaker 3: you said it. But it's true, like I don't think
Speaker 3: there are people who are like now that PREP exists,
Speaker 3: or like banging down my door to fuck.
Speaker 1: You know, the drug treatment is not going to magically
Speaker 1: dissolve some stigma. If people have grown up with years
Speaker 1: and years and years of these like incorrect, inappropriate, like
Speaker 1: stigmatized ideas ingrained in their head, that's like community work
Speaker 1: that you have to undo.
Speaker 3: Right, I do want to like give space to the
Speaker 3: folks who are like learning. Hey, I understand that science
Speaker 3: is different, right, I understand that, Like the way that
Speaker 3: I showed up before was really stupid. Like if they
Speaker 3: approach it that way, then like I might give them
Speaker 3: a pass.
Speaker 1: It's also it's so interesting that your experiences are so
Speaker 1: different than folks are on PREP. Because a lot of
Speaker 1: people online, right, you hear this every now and then
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, we're ultimately on the same drugs. It's
Speaker 1: like we're all doing the same thing. And it's like, no, no,
Speaker 1: the experiences are different.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: It's like I might be taking a certain drug for
Speaker 1: PREP that somebody else is taking to you.
Speaker 2: Know, save their lives.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, but that our experiences are not the same.
Speaker 1: It's not that the community is not the same, even
Speaker 1: though we might be taking the same drugs.
Speaker 4: Yeah for sure. I mean the stakes are incredibly different,
Speaker 4: you know. I think especially now, like in this moment,
Speaker 4: the things that are being attacked right now are prevention methods.
Speaker 4: So this is really sort of a negative people problem
Speaker 4: that they need to kind of deal with.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: I think sometimes I get this question of like, you know,
Speaker 4: what what should we do? Like how do we approach this?
Speaker 4: And it's kind of one of those things where it's
Speaker 4: like I actually don't know because at this present moment,
Speaker 4: my care is not under attack. And I think the
Speaker 4: stakes are different too, because you know, for HIV negative people,
Speaker 4: like what happens if PREP goes away? You stop having
Speaker 4: sex with HIV positive people. Maybe I don't know what
Speaker 4: happens if the care for HIV positive people goes away.
Speaker 4: It can be a life or death situation. And so
Speaker 4: even those situations, like the stakes are different. It's been
Speaker 4: an interesting dynamic to be in this position to realize
Speaker 4: that like right now, people who are on PREP, they're
Speaker 4: the ones that are most at risk in terms of
Speaker 4: getting their care taken away. And so I'm curious what
Speaker 4: you guys are doing, you know, I'm curious about like
Speaker 4: how you guys are motivating each other and what your
Speaker 4: community is doing.
Speaker 3: I'm curson about your group. What would an HIV doula do?
Speaker 3: Can you talk a little bit about the group, How
Speaker 3: did you get started? What work do you do?
Speaker 4: So I'm in a group called What we Can HIV
Speaker 4: Doula Do. It's a community of people joined in respond
Speaker 4: to the ongoing AIG crisis. We really understand adula as
Speaker 4: someone who holds space during time to the transition. We
Speaker 4: really think about how HIV is a series of transitions
Speaker 4: that begin long before getting tested and that continue after
Speaker 4: treatment and beyond. We realized that like no one gets
Speaker 4: HIV alone, no one should have to live with HIV alone.
Speaker 4: And so that's really sort of where the group came together,
Speaker 4: foundational to sort of what we do is really just
Speaker 4: asking questions. We've made sines that we've done, exhibitions, we've
Speaker 4: done public engagement work. It's been a great kind of
Speaker 4: group to be a part of, and it's been honestly
Speaker 4: kind of a mind fuck in the best way. It
Speaker 4: was a very rare experience of being in a room
Speaker 4: full of people and having the realization that the people
Speaker 4: that I was talking to were like directly responsible for
Speaker 4: the fact that I had health care, for the fact
Speaker 4: that I had access to meds. They are a lot
Speaker 4: more activists than I am I mean, I think I'm
Speaker 4: kind of a punk, but they are on a neither level.
Speaker 4: So like, I have a lot of respect, I have
Speaker 4: a lot of appreciation for them. Going through a pandemic
Speaker 4: and now currently living through our current administration. They've invigorated
Speaker 4: me and they've been a bridge of knowledge, of inspiration
Speaker 4: of hope. I think the thing that I kind of
Speaker 4: am always in tension with is I'm not interested in
Speaker 4: being an activist. I'm not interested in being like a
Speaker 4: cautionary tale. Like I really honestly believe that, like my
Speaker 4: life has been amazing partly because of HIV, and that's
Speaker 4: not to say that my life hasn't been shitty also
Speaker 4: because of HIV. I mean, I live in in the
Speaker 4: United States and we have our shitty healthcare system. So
Speaker 4: I think that's really sort of where I kind of
Speaker 4: entered the group.
Speaker 3: I'm wondering how much PREP has had an impact on
Speaker 3: your organization and the work that y'all are doing.
Speaker 4: The people in the group are really activated around protecting
Speaker 4: PREP and around protecting healthcare. I don't want to limit
Speaker 4: it to just PREP, and I don't want to limit
Speaker 4: it to just HIV. I think what's been interesting about
Speaker 4: the group is that we have people from so many
Speaker 4: different kind of activist groups bringing a lot of ideas
Speaker 4: and thinking and experience to the table. To have a
Speaker 4: group like that who has experienced is really kind of
Speaker 4: nice to kind of see and be on the sidelines,
Speaker 4: especially as I see a lot of them activate to
Speaker 4: protect prep and make sure that people who are HIV
Speaker 4: negative can stay negative.
Speaker 1: That's exciting to hear too. I mean, I feel like
Speaker 1: post pandemic. There's also been this resurgence in the visibility
Speaker 1: of ACT up in New York. But that's another organization
Speaker 1: that I think growing up, I always associated with the nineties,
Speaker 1: and they're still here and they're still doing stuff surrounding ACTS.
Speaker 1: It's so encouraging to hear that there are groups everywhere
Speaker 1: kind of like breaging that connect. Right, we can sort
Speaker 1: of continue the work and hope to make this world
Speaker 1: a little better than it was when we entered it.
Speaker 4: We're not starting from zero here, right, And I think,
Speaker 4: I mean, I go through this all the time where
Speaker 4: I'm just kind of like, fuck, what am I gonna do?
Speaker 4: This is like completely new to me. How am I
Speaker 4: subouted to navigate this? And then to like be reminded
Speaker 4: that there are people out there doing the work, and
Speaker 4: I think kind of the best thing that you can
Speaker 4: do is go find those people first. Oh yeah, go
Speaker 4: find the people that are already doing the work and
Speaker 4: connect with them and figure out what they're going to do.
Speaker 4: They'll have better answers than I do.
Speaker 3: Okay, So I have to ask It's kind of a
Speaker 3: controversial question, but I have to ask you this question,
Speaker 3: just past person a pause, person, how do you feel
Speaker 3: about bug chasing and the phenomenon that is.
Speaker 4: Girl leave me alone? Every time I got a bug
Speaker 4: chaser in my DM, first of all, I realize they're
Speaker 4: mostly always white, always, And then my second thought is
Speaker 4: usually like, damn, your healthcare is that good? You want
Speaker 4: to get a disease that's a pain in the ass
Speaker 4: of paperwork and also like a fundamental misunderstanding of you
Speaker 4: know how HIV works, Like, bro, we're all undetectable. You're
Speaker 4: not getting it from any of us. I don't know
Speaker 4: what to tell you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I normally just block them because like, I'm
Speaker 3: not doing this with you. I don't need to engage
Speaker 3: with you. I'm not doing an education.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this definitely is like one of those fantasies that like,
Speaker 4: I'm not trying to go down that road. This is
Speaker 4: not the fantasy I'm trying to live.
Speaker 2: No, it's not. It's also I already have it, so
Speaker 2: it's like, I.
Speaker 4: Don't know, I am already living the fantasy.
Speaker 1: Girl.
Speaker 2: It's cute gift, but like, we don't wish you with.
Speaker 4: Me in this economy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, returns no exchanges.
Speaker 2: Sorry, baby, we should shift some gears.
Speaker 1: We should years. All right, let's get a little more anecdotal.
Speaker 1: Since you were nicknamed the King of Sex. What is
Speaker 1: one of the wildest, craziest, maybe most memorable hookup stories
Speaker 1: you've ever had during your years in the Bay Area.
Speaker 4: Oh my god. In the last year or two, there
Speaker 4: was this guy who like hit me up on Sniffy's
Speaker 4: and he was like, Hey, i'm working late. I'm at
Speaker 4: this gas station, Like just come in, Oh, take out
Speaker 4: your dick at the counter and if I like what
Speaker 4: I see, then you can fuck me in front of
Speaker 4: the I was like, oh okay. And at the time
Speaker 4: while this was happening, I was also texting another guy
Speaker 4: and I was like, Hey, I don't think it's going
Speaker 4: to work out. I'm about to go meet this dude
Speaker 4: maybe next time, and he was like, can I come watch?
Speaker 4: And I was like sure. So I walked into this
Speaker 4: gas station in the middle of the night, took my
Speaker 4: dick out at the counter. The guy looks at it
Speaker 4: and he goes, great, the manager's off, it's that way,
Speaker 4: and I was like, cool, leave the door open. My
Speaker 4: friend is coming, and he was like awesome. So we
Speaker 4: go to the manager's office. He's sucking my dick, he's,
Speaker 4: you know, going to town. And then all of a sudden,
Speaker 4: I hear the door open and this guy walks in
Speaker 4: and he walks into the manager's office and he just
Speaker 4: starts jacking off and watching me fucking and I like,
Speaker 4: turn him around. I put him on the manager's chair.
Speaker 4: I'm like fucking him in the chair like it was great.
Speaker 4: I had a great time. I did wake up with
Speaker 4: a giant bruise on my thigh because of how hard
Speaker 4: I was like slamming into the chair that he was in.
Speaker 1: Maybe sometimes you gotta put your whole puss into it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: I mean, they don't call me the King for nothing. Yes,
Speaker 4: I told you I'm gonna make it worth it.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry that you organized a sex show as somebody
Speaker 1: else's place of work. And I'm kind of gag because, like,
Speaker 1: what if the guy that walked in wasn't even when
Speaker 1: you were texting? What if it was just like a
Speaker 1: random client that came in and decided to drink off
Speaker 1: with you all on the manager who knows. That's really beautiful.
Speaker 1: That's community. That is community community. So you see, like
Speaker 1: a very beautiful anecdote To end our interview on before
Speaker 1: we let you go, could you please tell us where
Speaker 1: listeners can find you and read more of your writing.
Speaker 4: The best place to find me is be on my
Speaker 4: newsletter set DST slash newsletter. That's sup dst dot com.
Speaker 4: I'm also begrudgingly on Instagram at sut underscore at DST,
Speaker 4: and my Then the Cruising Diaries can be found with
Speaker 4: Everything Matters Press, So that's Everythingmatters dot Press, slash shop.
Speaker 4: Pick it up and find out how I became the King.
Speaker 2: I guess amazing.
Speaker 1: All right, when we come back, we're gonna give you
Speaker 1: a refresher course on the different varieties of prep that
Speaker 1: are on the market and in the pipeline.
Speaker 2: So stay with us, don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1: So in this act, Chris and I will be talking
Speaker 1: about all the forms of PREP that are currently available
Speaker 1: and some of the forms of PREP that are coming
Speaker 1: soon to a pharmacy or a doctor's office near you.
Speaker 1: So the first of the approved methods for taking PREP
Speaker 1: that we want to talk about is the daily prep,
Speaker 1: and this one might be the one that is most
Speaker 1: familiar to you.
Speaker 3: It is the pill that you take once a day,
Speaker 3: every day, regardless of what, whether you're having sex or not.
Speaker 1: Ideally you're going back every three months for refills as
Speaker 1: well as HIV and STI testing with your doctor.
Speaker 3: Now, once a day prep is not the only way
Speaker 3: you can take PREP. You can also take PREP on demand.
Speaker 1: So prep on demand is also known as the two
Speaker 1: to one one method or the intermittent prep. And this
Speaker 1: one's a little trickier because you are taking pills on
Speaker 1: a schedule.
Speaker 3: You want to take two pills two to twenty four
Speaker 3: hours before you have sex. Then you take one pill
Speaker 3: twenty four hours after the first is and one more
Speaker 3: pill forty eight.
Speaker 2: Hours after the first.
Speaker 1: Since the two one one two before you have sex,
Speaker 1: one after, and one two days after. If you continue
Speaker 1: having sex, you can keep taking one pill every twenty
Speaker 1: four hours, but you'll have to take two pills after
Speaker 1: you last had sex, so one twenty four hours after
Speaker 1: you do, and another forty eight hours after that. Now,
Speaker 1: for folks who don't like taking pills, there is now
Speaker 1: injectable prep.
Speaker 2: This is fairly new.
Speaker 3: So this is one shot in the butt and it
Speaker 3: happens once every two months.
Speaker 1: It is important not to miss an injection.
Speaker 3: Yes, there is a short grace period about one week
Speaker 3: in either direction, either one week before the two months
Speaker 3: end or one week after that two months. If you
Speaker 3: wait too long, the amount of medicine in your body
Speaker 3: may fall too low to prevent HIV, but a lot
Speaker 3: for mutations. This is the same thing that happens when
Speaker 3: you're missing enough of your daily prep two months.
Speaker 1: Injectible prep is just the latest advancement in prep. But
Speaker 1: soon there should be an injectible prep that you only
Speaker 1: have to get injected every six months.
Speaker 3: And that works by two subcutaneous injections in the abdomen
Speaker 3: once every six months.
Speaker 1: Not as fun as in the butt, but it is
Speaker 1: very effective.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 1: So we've covered the forms of prep that exists now,
Speaker 1: but there are also so many that are in the
Speaker 1: research pipeline.
Speaker 3: There are things like microboside gel, vaginal rings, depositories, foams, etc. Now,
Speaker 3: before we close today's episode, let's hear some listeners submitted
Speaker 3: cruising confessions from our Horny Colin hotline.
Speaker 2: Yes, my favorite tradition. I'm so excited. It's great.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 5: So I was home for Christmas in this tiny town
Speaker 5: out in the desert, and I was desperate together of
Speaker 5: the house and stuck some dick and I remembered that
Speaker 5: at this party in Brooklyn, I hooked up with this hot,
Speaker 5: handsome Santo looking daddy from my hometown. So I was
Speaker 5: talented him on Facebook and he said, well, I can't
Speaker 5: bring you home because I've been taking care of my mother.
Speaker 5: But if you had found at a party in Brooklyn,
Speaker 5: I know there are some people who throw raids out
Speaker 5: here in the desert. And I saw some lights up
Speaker 5: on the mountain, and maybe we should go up there
Speaker 5: and see what's happening, and if there's nothing, we could
Speaker 5: just go back to my mind, and I kind of
Speaker 5: didn't understand exactly what he was saying, and I was like, okay, sure,
Speaker 5: And this guy pulls up in front of the house
Speaker 5: in his hummer and we start driving up into the
Speaker 5: mountains with his enormous car completely filling up this narrow,
Speaker 5: winding road, and it feels like at any moment we're
Speaker 5: about to plunge over this cliff into the dark. And
Speaker 5: he goes up to where he saw the lice and
Speaker 5: he says, oh, I didn't see anything. That's weird, Bute.
Speaker 5: We should just go back to my mind. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 5: you mean, like back to your place, and he's like, no,
Speaker 5: my mind is right near here. And he spends like
Speaker 5: he owns a mine, like he's mining or and I'm like, oh, okay,
Speaker 5: And he stops the car and we get out, and
Speaker 5: I say to him, Wow, I'm not getting any signal
Speaker 5: on my phone up here. This is just like in
Speaker 5: a horror movie where somebody says I'm not getting the
Speaker 5: signal up here and then they immediately get horridly murdered.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'm.
Speaker 5: Pretending like I'm joking, But I say to him, you know,
Speaker 5: if I hadn't just had long conversations on the record
Speaker 5: with you and several of my friends about my plans
Speaker 5: for tonight, I would be scared for my life right now, which,
Speaker 5: of course is exactly what I am. Terrified but we
Speaker 5: have a good laugh about it. And we walk over
Speaker 5: to the entrance to his mind with like the tracks
Speaker 5: on the ground for the whole cart and everything, and
Speaker 5: he's got like a lantern and I got my phone
Speaker 5: light and we go inside and it's literally sleezing coals outside.
Speaker 1: It's a line.
Speaker 5: There's all this geothermal heat and it's warm, way damp.
Speaker 5: I'm we go down this narrow passageway into this mine.
Speaker 5: It banks on like this platform on the ground. We're
Speaker 5: making out it's me and this grizzled prospector in his mind,
Speaker 5: and we're getting undressed, and he's got a whole union
Speaker 5: suit on under his clothes, with like a trapdoor seat
Speaker 5: and everything, and I'm eating his ass. Well, he's sucking
Speaker 5: my dick, and then I'm sucking this white bearded daddy
Speaker 5: up the ass on the floor of his mind. And
Speaker 5: it's incredibly hot, this crazy fantasy. And we come and
Speaker 5: he did not try to murder me at all. We
Speaker 5: just had an amazing time up in his mind. And
Speaker 5: then he drives me back home to my parents' house.
Speaker 5: And that's my crazy story.
Speaker 2: Okay, no, what do you mean You're picking me up
Speaker 2: on a hummer.
Speaker 1: First of all, red flag number one. Red flag number
Speaker 1: one is the hummer.
Speaker 2: You're picking me up a armor?
Speaker 1: Okay, good part of the story. You had met this
Speaker 1: person before, so like you already knew that they were
Speaker 1: likely not a murderer. Again, you never know. So we
Speaker 1: have the hummer. Yeah, and then we have the driving
Speaker 1: up the narrow path. I'm gonna be honest, I think
Speaker 1: the rave was a pretext.
Speaker 4: I won the rave.
Speaker 1: Oh my mind, happens to be next to this ray? Like, girl,
Speaker 1: how many mines are there in the desert? And also
Speaker 1: what were the oars? What are you mining? Are these
Speaker 1: precious materials that we should not be mining? Is this
Speaker 1: a kin to fracking? I need to know, yes, this
Speaker 1: is this a victimless mine? I mean it's a hummer,
Speaker 1: So I think we get Yeah, maybe he said fuck
Speaker 1: the environment and my ass.
Speaker 2: Now they are making electric ones now Okay, I'm just saying.
Speaker 1: I'm also like, okay, when I think of mines, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: a corporation runs a mine. A corporation runs a mine.
Speaker 1: This man's treating this like his bachelor pad. He's like, oh,
Speaker 1: the people come in, Yeah, they clink on the rocks
Speaker 1: and then when they leave, I bring out my blanket
Speaker 1: platform and I like what And.
Speaker 2: It must be a fantasy for him because he obviously
Speaker 2: going to afford a hotel. Girl.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you own a mine and a hummer, you
Speaker 1: could have three houses. That's the thing he likes, fucking
Speaker 1: in the mind. Yeah, that's why the rave was a pretext,
Speaker 1: because he's like, it sounds creepy when I email somebody,
Speaker 1: let's fuck.
Speaker 2: In my mind. And then he goes back to his mother.
Speaker 2: Right then he goes.
Speaker 1: Back to his mother, the previous owner of the mine.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming because how else do you fucking get a
Speaker 1: mine unless you inherit it from your family?
Speaker 2: Just like a mind.
Speaker 1: Yeah, once you go to an estate sale, be like, oh,
Speaker 1: this mine looks great to fucking I this is one
Speaker 1: of the most like, like, honestly, everything in my body
Speaker 1: is like no, no bad idea. But it also sounds
Speaker 1: kind of funny and really hot. You Yeah, you're sixty
Speaker 1: nine ying the owner of the mine. I lost it
Speaker 1: at the lantern. I was like too much, too much.
Speaker 1: I I this is weird. What kind of role play
Speaker 1: are we in right now? I've needed a story to
Speaker 1: make me feel something. This is the most I've felt
Speaker 1: in I am I'm like thrilled, I'm scared, I'm angry,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm dubious, I'm a little turned.
Speaker 2: On us dubious.
Speaker 1: Okay, Wow, so we fucked in a mine. We've been
Speaker 1: told about fucking of mine with the Union suit and
Speaker 1: then I bet it.
Speaker 2: But I bet I have a little bits the butt flat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's some snow white and the seven Dwarves ass shit.
Speaker 1: I can't handle it.
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that.
Speaker 3: If you want to hear your own cruising infession an
Speaker 3: upcoming episode of this podcast, you can call our Cruising
Speaker 3: Confession hotline at three zero two two one nine three
Speaker 3: eight nine eight. That is three zero two two one
Speaker 3: nine three eight nine eights.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we're at the end of this episode. We've
Speaker 1: had an incredible guest. How are you feeling after this episode?
Speaker 3: I love this episode and I'm really glad that we
Speaker 3: got to do this episode because I think that it
Speaker 3: has been thirteen years, but I think there are still
Speaker 3: a lot of conversations that can be had right and
Speaker 3: sort of talking about the impact not only on the
Speaker 3: folks who are HIV negative, but those of us who
Speaker 3: are HIV positive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm really excited we got to talk about it
Speaker 1: specifically from this perspective because I think a lot of
Speaker 1: the conversations or the ads or the TV programming we
Speaker 1: see that involves PREP always has an HIV negative person involved,
Speaker 1: and a lot of panels and conversation I've been to
Speaker 1: publicly about PREP usually center HIV negative folks, and I
Speaker 1: love that we were able to talk to Daniel and
Speaker 1: to you as well about how PREP has impacted HIV
Speaker 1: positive folks because in some cases it's like, well, hasn't
Speaker 1: changed much, but in other cases it has changed quite
Speaker 1: a bit.
Speaker 3: One of the things I think we didn't really like
Speaker 3: name it specifically, but the conversation around shame around HIV.
Speaker 3: Daniel and I have showed you like the lack of
Speaker 3: shame that we have, but I think that there has
Speaker 3: been a shift in the perception around HIV and the
Speaker 3: shame that folks who are experiencing around it.
Speaker 2: I think, I think, in my experience.
Speaker 1: I want to think our guest Daniel Sanchez Torres. You
Speaker 1: can subscribe to his newsletter Rough Drafts at sup dst
Speaker 1: dot com, Backslash newsletter, or order his new essay on
Speaker 1: Cruising at Everything Matters dot Press, backslash Shop. He's also
Speaker 1: on Instagram at sub sup Underscore, dst. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions
Speaker 1: is directed by Adam Barron, produced by Amanda Keuper and
Speaker 1: Cameron Femino, and executive produced by Eli Markin.
Speaker 3: Cruising Confessions is present by Snippy's, the ultimate map based
Speaker 3: cruising platform.
Speaker 2: We're gay by incurious people ready to cruise.
Speaker 3: Check out the map at snippies dot com and fall
Speaker 3: snitches at snippis app.
Speaker 1: Cruisers are a community. Do your part in keeping us safe.
Speaker 1: Learn more about protecting your sexual health at Healthisexuals dot com.
Speaker 4: Put your put, put your put, put your puts to
Speaker 4: y