WEBVTT - The Immigration Crisis: Steven Camarota Talks To A&G

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<v Speaker 1>In action has decimated America.

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<v Speaker 2>With the stroke of a pen, Texas Governor Greg Abbott

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<v Speaker 2>signed into law what the ACOU dubbs one of the

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<v Speaker 2>most radical anti immigrant bills ever passed by any state.

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<v Speaker 1>Simon Bill four is now law in the state of Texas.

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<v Speaker 2>S before creates a new state crime for a legal

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<v Speaker 2>entry into Texas, gives local police the power to arrest

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<v Speaker 2>and judges the power to remove violators.

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<v Speaker 1>But the problem is far more than just numbers.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it sounds dramatic to say the strictest laws ever

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<v Speaker 3>passed by any state. Well, states aren't supposed to pass

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<v Speaker 3>laws about a federal issue like illegal immigration. But the

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<v Speaker 3>point is the federal government is doing nothing about it.

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<v Speaker 3>So I guess we'll try. And as we talked about

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<v Speaker 3>earlier in the show with Tim the lawyer, Tim Sandefer,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, this will probably get hung up in the courts,

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<v Speaker 3>but there is a chance that the Supreme Court says

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<v Speaker 3>the federal government is actually not addressing something they're supposed

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<v Speaker 3>to address, and so we'll let the states do it.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a possibility that could happen. By the way, something

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<v Speaker 3>back on December fifth, two weeks ago, twelve thousand migrants

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<v Speaker 3>were encountered at our border. I don't know who decided

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<v Speaker 3>to use this language. Migrants encountered, illegals crossed most of

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<v Speaker 3>the time, getting in and staying here. Twelve thousand. That

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<v Speaker 3>was the highest ever in a single day, a record.

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<v Speaker 3>Back on December fifth, two weeks later, yesterday, fourteen thousand

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<v Speaker 3>encountered at.

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<v Speaker 1>The border, a new record.

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<v Speaker 3>Everybody, nice job setting new records regularly for illegal immigration. Unbelievable.

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<v Speaker 3>As we often do whenever we're talking about this topic,

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<v Speaker 3>we turn to the Center for Immigration Studies in a

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<v Speaker 3>variety of people we've talked to over the years, and

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<v Speaker 3>today we're going to talk to Stephen Camarata, lead author

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<v Speaker 3>of a report saying the majority of immigrant households use welfare.

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<v Speaker 3>I would like to know more about that, Stephen, Welcome

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<v Speaker 3>to the Armstrong and Getty Show.

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<v Speaker 4>Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 3>So what can you tell us about who use it?

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<v Speaker 3>Because one of the arguments, well there are two arguments.

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<v Speaker 3>One of the arguments for closing down the borders so

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<v Speaker 3>that people come across and they drain our resources and

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<v Speaker 3>cost taxpayer money.

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<v Speaker 1>Taxpayers money.

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<v Speaker 3>Then colleges come out with these sophisticated studies and say, no,

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<v Speaker 3>they actually contribute to the economy more than they take.

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<v Speaker 3>So what have you found?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so okay, A lot of times people say different terminologies.

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<v Speaker 4>A couple of things. When we talk about immigrants overall

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<v Speaker 4>in this data, the first number, fifty four percent of

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<v Speaker 4>all immigrant households use one of the major welfare programs.

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<v Speaker 4>A lot of it is the non cash programs like

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<v Speaker 4>food stamps and public housing and the earned incomes tax

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<v Speaker 4>credit and all that sort of stuff. So when we're

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<v Speaker 4>talking about that, we look at the fiscal impact of

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<v Speaker 4>immigrants on the United States, all the taxes they pay

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<v Speaker 4>and all the services they use, that looks to be negative.

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<v Speaker 4>One of the things you have to decide though on that,

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<v Speaker 4>just methodologically, is what do you do with children. So

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<v Speaker 4>a person has a child who's enrolled in school, and

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<v Speaker 4>that child's on Medicaid, and that child is reskiving free lunches,

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<v Speaker 4>or is on the Wick program or what have you.

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<v Speaker 4>How do you count that since the child was born here.

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<v Speaker 4>If you want to make the immigrants not seen like

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<v Speaker 4>they're a fiscal burden, you just exclude all that and

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<v Speaker 4>you say none of that matters. Yes, the parent is

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<v Speaker 4>not able to provide for the child. So the child

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<v Speaker 4>technically is getting the food stamps. The child is on

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<v Speaker 4>Medicaid right, the child gets wick, but none of that

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<v Speaker 4>that's all counted for native expenses because the child was

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<v Speaker 4>born here. If you count the children of immigrants with

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<v Speaker 4>the young children, they're dependent children. If you will with

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<v Speaker 4>the immigrants themselves, you usually end up with a negative number.

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<v Speaker 4>That doesn't mean that the children will not grow up

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<v Speaker 4>and be at least average. That doesn't mean that, but

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<v Speaker 4>it means right now and for the foreseeable future, the

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<v Speaker 4>immigrants and their kids are net fiscal drain. Now. One

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<v Speaker 4>other point, if you want to go a little deeper

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<v Speaker 4>all just play is because we live in a society

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<v Speaker 4>that's unwilling to tax itself for all the things that

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<v Speaker 4>we want, and that we borrow so much money. That's

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<v Speaker 4>also another factor that consider is that the average person

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<v Speaker 4>is basically in fiscal deficits because we're not willing to

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<v Speaker 4>raise taxes to pay for all this stuff we want

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<v Speaker 4>to give out at the federal level, at the state

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<v Speaker 4>level where you have to have balanced budgets. Whenever we

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<v Speaker 4>do a calculation, immigrants are unambiguously a fiscal drain, paying

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<v Speaker 4>less than taxes than they use in services if you

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<v Speaker 4>count the kids. Now on the final point, the economics,

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<v Speaker 4>which I won't go much into, there's no question that

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<v Speaker 4>the US economy is hundreds of billions of dollars, actually

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<v Speaker 4>well more than a trillion dollars larger than it otherwise

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<v Speaker 4>would be because we have so many more people in

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<v Speaker 4>the country. Whether that is a benefit to the native

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<v Speaker 4>born that increases the per capita GDP in the United

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<v Speaker 4>States totally different questions. But there's no question more people

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<v Speaker 4>means a bigger economy, more economic activity, more labors, more consumers.

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<v Speaker 4>That doesn't mean you're richer, because if all that mattered

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<v Speaker 4>was the aggregate size of the economy, well then people

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<v Speaker 4>would say that Bangladesh is much richer than New Zealand

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<v Speaker 4>because it is its economy is much larger. Right, of course,

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<v Speaker 4>what matters is per capita. When we look at per

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<v Speaker 4>capita GDP or to capita income, it doesn't seem that

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<v Speaker 4>the native born population benefits very much from the immigrants. Ah,

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<v Speaker 4>but the immigrants do benefit in that sure consider.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's interesting.

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<v Speaker 3>You know that was a great lesson the last few

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<v Speaker 3>minutes in the great Mark Twain quote of the three

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<v Speaker 3>kinds of lies, lies, damned lies, and statistics. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>because obviously you can use a lot of those statistics

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<v Speaker 3>to make arguments whatever direction you want to make. But

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<v Speaker 3>that that's really interesting stuff, well done.

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<v Speaker 1>And I also think.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know how much of it is when you

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<v Speaker 3>when you see people's reaction to immigration, And I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know how much you want to differentiate between legal immigration

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<v Speaker 3>and illegal immigration. Obviously we've got a ton of illegal

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<v Speaker 3>immigration going on right now. But I think people see,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, in their schools, you got a bunch of

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<v Speaker 3>people that don't speak English and their schools struggling to

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<v Speaker 3>deal with it. Your er is the regular hospital for

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of people who are here who don't have

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<v Speaker 3>any sort of healthcare or insurance anything like that. And clogs,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, there's a lot of guming up the works

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<v Speaker 3>of systems that weren't designed for this. Isn't that where

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of people's attitudes come from? Do you think?

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<v Speaker 1>Sure? Sure?

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, people don't know the statistics. Here's what you

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<v Speaker 4>get again. You get fifty four percent from the Survey

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<v Speaker 4>of Income and Program Participation shows of immigrant households using

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<v Speaker 4>one or more welfare programs we estimate that it's fifty

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<v Speaker 4>nine percent for illegals percent for legal immigrants. Yeah, both

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<v Speaker 4>are very high. And the illegals can receive more receive

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<v Speaker 4>use more programs, but the legals can use programs to

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<v Speaker 4>get more benefits. So it's a little bit complicated, but

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<v Speaker 4>the short answer is they're both really high. Let me

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<v Speaker 4>tell your listeners this though, so they don't have to

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<v Speaker 4>leave with that. The rate for the native born is

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<v Speaker 4>thirty nine percent. Yes, that's right. It's extremely common in

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<v Speaker 4>America for the native born population. And you don't want

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<v Speaker 4>to know what it is in California. I mean in

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<v Speaker 4>California it's it's even higher. It's forty one percent for

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<v Speaker 4>native born households use one or more of the welfare programs.

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<v Speaker 4>And even if you say now, you might say, well

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<v Speaker 4>which programs can you exclude some and get a difference. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>you can exclude the free school lunches and breakfasts, but

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<v Speaker 4>you still get thirty five percent, and in California you

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<v Speaker 4>still get fifty three percent. For the immigrants, you still

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<v Speaker 4>get for the illegal immigrants you get fifty six percent,

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<v Speaker 4>and for the lead immigrants in California, excluding the free

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<v Speaker 4>school lunch program, you still get fifty three percent. No

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<v Speaker 4>one program drives the numbers. They're just using a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of programs across the board. And again, Native welfare use

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<v Speaker 4>is very high, and immigrants is higher still, and California

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<v Speaker 4>kind of is the tops. They're the most one of

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<v Speaker 4>the most generous states.

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<v Speaker 1>Now generous, I like the word generous.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, they're generous.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm glad I'm being so generous. I didn't realize

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<v Speaker 1>I had a choice.

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<v Speaker 4>That's right, you're being generous. The other thing tor members

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<v Speaker 4>people said, well give but wait, how can the illegal

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<v Speaker 4>immigrants get so much? The short answer is, I can

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<v Speaker 4>run through it quick. It's the usborn children. They can

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<v Speaker 4>receive anything. Also, not all programs are barred, like free

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<v Speaker 4>school lunch and WICK. Anyone can receive those programs. Also

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<v Speaker 4>a number of states, including California, provide medicaid even to

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<v Speaker 4>illegal adults, and of course all their usborn children could

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<v Speaker 4>get it. And there are other states that provide the

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<v Speaker 4>food stamps. Also, because we give out I know this

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<v Speaker 4>sounds shocking to people, we could explain it. We give

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<v Speaker 4>out work authorization to illegal immigrants, so they're technically illegally

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<v Speaker 4>in the United States. They're called inadmissible aliens if you

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<v Speaker 4>want to know the term. But we've given them social

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<v Speaker 4>Security numbers so they can work. But this allows them

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<v Speaker 4>to access cash benefits from the earned income tax credit.

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<v Speaker 4>You don't pay any federal income tax if your incomes

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<v Speaker 4>low enough, and you get sometimes a check for four

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<v Speaker 4>or five thousand dollars from the government. And yes, illegal

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<v Speaker 4>immigrants can and you get that check because they have

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<v Speaker 4>the work authorization. They're just so you understand that that happens. Now,

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<v Speaker 4>that's not all illegal immigrants. Don't get me wrong, Sure,

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<v Speaker 4>that's what happens.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, And just to make it clear, I mean we

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<v Speaker 3>always say this. I don't begrudge anybody doing this. Man,

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<v Speaker 3>if you knew you could get in and have a

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<v Speaker 3>kid in the United States and what the path that's

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<v Speaker 3>going to set them on, Hell yeah, I would do that,

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<v Speaker 3>right And look.

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<v Speaker 4>The other that's right. Look, we have no evidence that's

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<v Speaker 4>probably happening, but that's not what drives the numbers. No evidence.

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<v Speaker 4>This is fraud. And let me tell you something else.

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<v Speaker 4>Eighty three percent of immigrant households have at least one worker.

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<v Speaker 4>Ninety four percent of illegal immigrant of illegal immigrants, it's

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<v Speaker 4>eighty three for all immigrant households, and it's ninety four

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<v Speaker 4>percent for illegal immigrant households have at least one worker.

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<v Speaker 4>The comparison with the native borns is seventy three percent.

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<v Speaker 4>But work, Yeah, work and welfare go together just fine.

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<v Speaker 4>All the programs we've been discussing. You couldn't get the

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<v Speaker 4>Well the Earn Income Task Credit is for workers, but

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<v Speaker 4>you can get wick and free school lunch, and live

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<v Speaker 4>in public housing and be on Medicaid and many other

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<v Speaker 4>things even if you work. If your income is low enough,

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<v Speaker 4>So if you're like a family of four and you

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<v Speaker 4>make less than forty thousand a year, most welfare programs

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<v Speaker 4>are open to you. And in California and specific the

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<v Speaker 4>income thresholds tend to be high, so they tend to

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<v Speaker 4>give you a lot and you're eligible for just about everything.

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<v Speaker 4>Other states like Texas or Florida more restrictive, but still

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<v Speaker 4>you can get lots of programs. Work does not in

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<v Speaker 4>any way preclude welfare use. If you had to put

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<v Speaker 4>this whole phenomenon in a bumper sticker, when it comes

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<v Speaker 4>to immigrant workers, it's there's a high cost to cheap labor,

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<v Speaker 4>but it's born by taxpayers. The costs are diffuse. They're

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<v Speaker 4>born by everyone. Whereas the employer and maybe the consumer

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<v Speaker 4>who's using the services, they get the benefit, but everyone

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<v Speaker 4>has to pay got.

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<v Speaker 3>So you get your lawn mode for what you feel

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<v Speaker 3>like is a really great price, or house cleaned or whatever,

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<v Speaker 3>but your taxes are so high.

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<v Speaker 4>Right, And I think that's the way to think about it, exactly.

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<v Speaker 4>And so the short entw is okay, but maybe we

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<v Speaker 4>need these workers. But I would add one other thing,

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<v Speaker 4>and that is that one of the things that's happening

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<v Speaker 4>in America, one of the most troubling trends is all

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<v Speaker 4>the US born people of all races, black, Hispanic, and white.

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<v Speaker 4>We've seen this phenomenon sitting on them sidelines. That is,

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<v Speaker 4>they neither work nor do they look for work, which

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<v Speaker 4>means every unemployment number you see does not include So

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<v Speaker 4>let me give you just one exgo. If you look

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<v Speaker 4>at men who have only a high school education or

0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:18.720
<v Speaker 4>less in nineteen sixty, only seven of them. We're entirely

0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.840
<v Speaker 4>out of the labor market, neither working nor looking for

0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.960
<v Speaker 4>men looking for work today it's twenty five percent. So

0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:29.480
<v Speaker 4>we have no millions of less educated Americans sitting on

0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.160
<v Speaker 4>the sidelines. So if we really do need workers, my

0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.880
<v Speaker 4>solution is that it would make more sense to let

0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:38.760
<v Speaker 4>wages rise and help the working for and this would

0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.200
<v Speaker 4>help attract Americans who are sitting on the sidelines back.

0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.800
<v Speaker 4>But you'd probably need to reform the welfare system and

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<v Speaker 4>especially the disability system. Yeah, a long explanation. A lot

0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:53.400
<v Speaker 4>of these numbers reflect what happened, is we reformed welfare

0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:54.920
<v Speaker 4>and everyone just went on disability.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean.

0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.360
<v Speaker 4>That's a gross oversimplification.

0:12:58.440 --> 0:12:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Hey, this is talk radio, that's what we do.

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<v Speaker 3>I got to interrupt you just because you hit us

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<v Speaker 3>with the blizzard of stuff there. All of it really

0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.760
<v Speaker 3>really good man, you're speaking our language. We cover those

0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:12.000
<v Speaker 3>topics so often. And the number of healthy men who

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<v Speaker 3>are who can choose not to work. I mean, when

0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:17.199
<v Speaker 3>in world history have you ever been able to choose

0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:19.600
<v Speaker 3>not to work as a healthy man, you can choose

0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:21.400
<v Speaker 3>not to work. On our current society, you might have

0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.880
<v Speaker 3>to change based on all those stats. Change it from

0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:27.240
<v Speaker 3>the Center for Immigration Studies to the Center of We're

0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.719
<v Speaker 3>already a socialist country studies.

0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.800
<v Speaker 4>Right, I mean, people have that misconception. There's really not

0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.400
<v Speaker 4>the extensive nature of America's welfare system is not that

0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:41.120
<v Speaker 4>different than many Western European countries. I mean, the European

0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:45.560
<v Speaker 4>countries differ. But that's one reason why if you have

0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:49.720
<v Speaker 4>a relatively laxed immigration system, which our legal system is

0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.560
<v Speaker 4>mostly based on family relationships, not skills, and of course

0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:57.480
<v Speaker 4>illegal immigration is not very selective at all. And so

0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.559
<v Speaker 4>what the administration is doing by releasing so many people

0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:02.320
<v Speaker 4>in the United States, that's the part I think the

0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.680
<v Speaker 4>public still doesn't quite get. It's not that people people

0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.920
<v Speaker 4>are doing this in enormous numbers, slipping past the border patrol,

0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:12.360
<v Speaker 4>but that's not mostly what's happening. They're being caught and

0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.520
<v Speaker 4>then released, or they're presenting themselves at the border and

0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:19.560
<v Speaker 4>being presented and being released under a variety of what

0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.440
<v Speaker 4>I would argue is abuse of the lag using parole

0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:27.480
<v Speaker 4>and asylum and such. But the point is that's what's happening.

0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:29.760
<v Speaker 4>So if you had a wall that no one could

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:33.280
<v Speaker 4>ever get past between the ports of entry, it might

0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:34.800
<v Speaker 4>not make that much difference.

0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.920
<v Speaker 3>Right, I see your point, because it is being released. Right, Hey,

0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:41.000
<v Speaker 3>we gotta take a break. I really enjoyed your time.

0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:42.840
<v Speaker 3>I'm glad we could get you on. We're gonna talk

0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 3>to you again, Stephen Camarada with the Center for Immigration Studies.

0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:46.880
<v Speaker 1>That was great stuff.

0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:48.840
<v Speaker 4>Thank you very much, thanks for having me.

0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, man, he was good. We gotta have him on

0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:56.720
<v Speaker 3>again when Joe's here. Love that stuff so interesting, looking

0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:59.920
<v Speaker 3>at statistics from a number of different ways, which people

0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.600
<v Speaker 3>rarely do. Anyway, we got to introduce Katie Green to

0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:05.840
<v Speaker 3>one of the worst Christmas songs we've been playing for years.

0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:06.960
<v Speaker 3>I bet she hasn't heard this.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up next, Armstrong and Getty