WEBVTT - The Best American Golf Trip Nobody Knows About

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<v Speaker 1>I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.

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<v Speaker 2>When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

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<v Speaker 2>And when I find my.

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<v Speaker 1>Ball in a brid Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Friday,

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<v Speaker 1>Frida Egg Egg, Fridagg Bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready

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<v Speaker 1>to run.

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<v Speaker 2>Off of the Welcome back to another edition of the

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<v Speaker 2>Friday Golf Podcast. I am your host, Andy Johnson. Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>Today I am joined by Garrett Morrison. We are going

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<v Speaker 2>to talk about his big trip a couple of weeks

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<v Speaker 2>ago to the Great State of Maine. He went on

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<v Speaker 2>a journey, played a ton of golf in Maine over

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<v Speaker 2>the course of a week, and I think it's a

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<v Speaker 2>pretty cool golf trip that nobody really talks about it

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<v Speaker 2>talks about. I'm super excited to chat with Garrett about it.

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<v Speaker 2>He's been wanting to do this trip for some time.

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<v Speaker 2>I've wanted to do the trip for some time and

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<v Speaker 2>glad that a member of the Frida Egg staff got

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<v Speaker 2>out there and finally did it. Before we get to Garrett,

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<v Speaker 2>let's talk about our partner for this podcast, really a

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<v Speaker 2>real partner.

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<v Speaker 1>We are.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess you could say we're in cahoots with good

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<v Speaker 2>This is a great way. I am a happy subscriber

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<v Speaker 2>never have to go to the grocery store. I never

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<v Speaker 2>let's get to Garrett. All right, Garrett, I gotta ask

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<v Speaker 2>amazing flight that you took. You went Portland to Portland.

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<v Speaker 1>I did. That's a feature of this trip for me,

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<v Speaker 1>that I started in Portland, Oregon and went to Portland, Maine.

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<v Speaker 1>It was not a direct flight.

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<v Speaker 2>Buttland to Portland directly. It seems out of principle there

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<v Speaker 2>should be one.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems like it's an automatic kind of promo idea

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<v Speaker 1>for some up and coming airline. But I have heard

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<v Speaker 1>stories about people accidentally going to the wrong Portland. I

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<v Speaker 1>heard a few of those stories while I was in

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<v Speaker 1>Maine when I mentioned that I that I live in

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<v Speaker 1>the other Portlands, as they call it in Portland, Maine.

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<v Speaker 1>People do sometimes find themselves in Portland, Maine Portland, Oregon

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<v Speaker 1>when they wanted the other one, which is quite a

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<v Speaker 1>situation because they are not close to each other.

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<v Speaker 2>What how do how do port How does Portland, Maine

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<v Speaker 2>differ from Portland, Oregon.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, in some ways, they're kind of similar. They're

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<v Speaker 1>both these port towns, right, they're named after the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that they're port towns, and they're they're kind of northern,

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<v Speaker 1>and the you know, the landscapes are not totally dissimilar. Obviously, Portland,

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<v Speaker 1>Oregon is is substantially bigger than Portland, Maine, and in general,

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<v Speaker 1>Oregon is a more populous state than than Maine. So

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<v Speaker 1>you feel like you're kind of out of the out

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<v Speaker 1>of the normal, you know, modes of city life. When

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<v Speaker 1>you're in Portland, Maine, it doesn't feel like you're in

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<v Speaker 1>a metropolis, whereas Portland, Oregon is a big city.

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<v Speaker 2>I think their golf scenes are a little different, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, well, certainly, Maine's golf scene in general is very traditional,

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<v Speaker 1>very old, very deeply rooted, whereas Portland, Oregon's golf scene,

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<v Speaker 1>although we have a few old courses, is more new fangled,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's that's part of the character of the states

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<v Speaker 1>as well. Maine has been around for a long time

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<v Speaker 1>has has been settled by Americans or Westerners for for

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<v Speaker 1>quite a long time, whereas Oregon was part of the frontier,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think the golf kind of represents that. In Maine,

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<v Speaker 1>it's very traditional and that's part of the reason that

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<v Speaker 1>I was interested in going there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think this trip has has been kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like circled on the fried Egg editorial desire things that

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<v Speaker 2>we've wanted to do for a long time as a company.

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<v Speaker 2>I think like one of the biggest virtues of the

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<v Speaker 2>trip was the accessibility of it. There aren't a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of places where you can go play a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>Golden Age golf designs that are affordable, open to the public,

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<v Speaker 2>and interesting. What I would I would I guess like,

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<v Speaker 2>how did you like, how did you go about planning

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<v Speaker 2>this trip out? Because I think that's one of the

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<v Speaker 2>challenges why it might be difficult to comprehend doing is

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<v Speaker 2>like where do you start? How did you go about

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<v Speaker 2>starting to plan this trip and decide what courses you

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<v Speaker 2>were going to see and where you were going to stay.

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<v Speaker 2>I think those are kind of initial hurdles.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, first of all, you said Golden Age accessible, Golden

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<v Speaker 1>Age golf course designs. I would also say pre Golden

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<v Speaker 1>Age golf courses are in abundance in Maine, and there

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<v Speaker 1>are a lot of them that you can play just

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<v Speaker 1>for a normal green fee, and it's a type of

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<v Speaker 1>golf that you just don't see very often because a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the courses that were built before the Golden Age,

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<v Speaker 1>before the nineteen tens and twenties in America were redesigned

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<v Speaker 1>in the nineteen tens, twenties and thirties. In Maine, a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of those courses that were built in the eighteen

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<v Speaker 1>nineties or the early nineteen hundreds haven't really been touched

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<v Speaker 1>since then, and that's part of what makes them special.

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<v Speaker 1>And so in planning the trip, I really focused on

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<v Speaker 1>seeing those golf courses, those old golf courses. There are

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<v Speaker 1>some good modern courses in Maine, and I heard about

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<v Speaker 1>those from various people that I would run into at

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<v Speaker 1>these older courses where they would be like, are you

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<v Speaker 1>going to Boothbay Harbor, Are you going to Sugar Loaf?

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<v Speaker 1>Are you going to Belgrade Lakes? These are some of

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<v Speaker 1>the modern courses that are well regarded in Maine, and

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<v Speaker 1>I would tell them no, I think that where we're

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<v Speaker 1>at right now is kind of cooler and what I

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<v Speaker 1>came to Maine to see. But that's not to say

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<v Speaker 1>that those courses that I mentioned are not good. I

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<v Speaker 1>think Boothbay Harbor especially is considered to be very good

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<v Speaker 1>and looks very good. But I didn't go to Maine

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<v Speaker 1>to see good modern golf. I went to Maine to

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<v Speaker 1>go see something from the eighteen nineties that hasn't been

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<v Speaker 1>redesigned since then. And so that is to me what

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<v Speaker 1>was special about this experience on primarily coastal Maine. There

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<v Speaker 1>are also some courses inland in Maine, but coastal Maine

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<v Speaker 1>is where I focused, because you got some courses right

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<v Speaker 1>on the ocean that were built more than a century

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<v Speaker 1>ago that are just there and where else can you

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<v Speaker 1>find that? So I went to Maine to find something

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<v Speaker 1>that I couldn't find anywhere else, and I was really

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<v Speaker 1>satisfied in that expectation. So you know, in laying out

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<v Speaker 1>the trip, there were many different iterations of this. I

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<v Speaker 1>had a huge list of courses that I could potentially

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<v Speaker 1>have seen, and I ended up selecting ten of them,

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<v Speaker 1>which was very hard to do.

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<v Speaker 2>So so the ten were and this probably will mean

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<v Speaker 2>nothing to a lot of people because you won't know

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<v Speaker 2>the names through them more thoroughly.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well we'll talk about them.

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<v Speaker 2>Blank, Bonnie Golf Links, Grindstone Neck Golf Club.

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<v Speaker 1>Should I say them?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I know how to pronounce them, panob Scott Valley

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<v Speaker 1>Country Club. I had to. I had to ask about

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<v Speaker 1>the pronunciation of that one. They call it. They call

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<v Speaker 1>it Panabi sometimes in Maine. Northeast Tarbor Golf Club, Cebo

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<v Speaker 1>Valley Club, Mcgunta Cook Golf Club, Wahwanack Golf Course, Portland

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<v Speaker 1>Country Club, Poland Spring Golf Course, and I think I

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<v Speaker 1>might have skipped North Golf Club. Yeah, a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>great names in there. First of all, Maine really knows

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<v Speaker 1>how to name its golf courses.

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<v Speaker 2>A little bit naming well.

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's some some Native American influence on the names,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're just wonderful sounding. You know where Mcgunta Cook, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>where the heck does that come from? But in any case,

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<v Speaker 1>those are the courses that I saw. A big help

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<v Speaker 1>in planning this trip was Brian Schneider's itinerary from a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of months ago. You had Brian on the podcast

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<v Speaker 1>to discuss his experience in Maine, and you touched on it,

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<v Speaker 1>but you didn't really go super in depth on it.

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<v Speaker 1>But Brian covered his trip to Maine in a really

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<v Speaker 1>wonderful way on Instagram, and I was following those posts

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<v Speaker 1>and keeping an eye on which courses he thought were

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<v Speaker 1>really remarkable, and those ones kind of got an extra

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<v Speaker 1>check mark in my book. But a lot of these

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<v Speaker 1>courses have been on my personal map for a long

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<v Speaker 1>time because it's just the type of golf that I

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<v Speaker 1>want to see that I'm kind of obsessed with. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>nine holers that are more than a century old. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>please sign me up for that. So that's what I

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<v Speaker 1>was focusing on, you know. Blake Conant also was a

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<v Speaker 1>good resource here. He knows about these kinds of courses

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<v Speaker 1>and has researched them. So ultimately I decided to spend

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<v Speaker 1>a good deal of time in the region known as

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<v Speaker 1>down East Maine. Now, to be clear, the coast of

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<v Speaker 1>Maine moves mostly east, right, it moves northeast, but mostly east.

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<v Speaker 1>So the deeper part of Maine, when you get past Portland,

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<v Speaker 1>which is kind of in the kind of southern or

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<v Speaker 1>western part of the state and clos ish to Boston,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not that hard to get to Portland from Boston.

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<v Speaker 1>When you go farther into Maine, you get into a

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<v Speaker 1>territory called down East Maine. This is where Acadia National

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<v Speaker 1>Park is on Mount Desert Island. Beautiful out of the

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<v Speaker 1>way places, not very heavily populated, though there are some

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<v Speaker 1>towns throughout. And this is the region where I spent

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of my time because quite a few of

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<v Speaker 1>the courses that I was really keenly interested in were

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<v Speaker 1>in this region. So I spent what some people might

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<v Speaker 1>think would be an unusual amount of time in this area.

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<v Speaker 1>It would have been reasonable to spend an equal amount

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<v Speaker 1>of time in the Portland area and seeing all those

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<v Speaker 1>golf courses around there. There are more golf courses there,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're very interesting as well, but I just wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to emphasize the Down East region, so I stayed there

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<v Speaker 1>for a while, and then toward the end of the trip,

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<v Speaker 1>I went into the Portland area, and I also saw

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of places in what they call the Mid

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<v Speaker 1>Coast region, which is kind of between the Portland area

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<v Speaker 1>and the Down East region.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's about how far of a drive is it

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<v Speaker 2>up to the Down East section from Portland.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that's an interesting question because there are many different

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<v Speaker 1>routes you can take, and not all the roads are

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<v Speaker 1>super efficient.

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<v Speaker 2>Through me.

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<v Speaker 1>A few hours. It's basically to get to the Down

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<v Speaker 1>East region, which is a big region, so it depends

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<v Speaker 1>on where you're going within it. But to get from

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<v Speaker 1>like Portland to Bangor, Maine, which is kind of the

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<v Speaker 1>biggest city in the region that I'm discussing, third biggest

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<v Speaker 1>city in Maine and approximately where Pinobscott Valley country Club is.

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<v Speaker 1>To get from Portland to Bangor, believe, it's about two

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<v Speaker 1>to two and a half hours of driving. The night

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<v Speaker 1>that I got there, I got in late. I flew

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<v Speaker 1>in to the Portland airport pretty late. I got up

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<v Speaker 1>early in Portland, Oregon, and by the time I got

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<v Speaker 1>to Portland, Maine, it was, you know, nine ten o'clock,

0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.120
<v Speaker 1>and I just relied on Google Maps, and I ended

0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:17.840
<v Speaker 1>up just taking the craziest route to where I was

0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.160
<v Speaker 1>going in the Downeast, like literally just taking country back

0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:26.080
<v Speaker 1>roads completely pitch black, dark, no signs of civilization around,

0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:28.440
<v Speaker 1>and I was on no road for longer than like

0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.800
<v Speaker 1>five miles. So it was really it was really quite

0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.080
<v Speaker 1>a drive. I don't know if i'd recommend it, but

0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.160
<v Speaker 1>that was I think the more direct route along the coast.

0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.440
<v Speaker 1>If you're going along the coast, you're gonna do some interesting.

0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Driving interesting and then that middle area is kind of

0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:49.360
<v Speaker 2>reachable from either of those two sections, i'd imagine, right.

0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:52.959
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, the mid coast area where the main coastal

0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:56.040
<v Speaker 1>cities as far as I know. Apologies if to geography

0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.240
<v Speaker 1>nerds if this is wrong, but Rockport and Rockland, which

0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:03.120
<v Speaker 1>are well named these because they're very rocky, those cities

0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.520
<v Speaker 1>are in the mid coast region, and that's where mcgunta

0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:09.439
<v Speaker 1>Cook Golf Club is, and that's where also I took

0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:14.040
<v Speaker 1>the ferry to North Haven Golf Club from. So that's

0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:17.040
<v Speaker 1>and while we'n not, golf courses is around that that

0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.200
<v Speaker 1>region as well.

0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:23.880
<v Speaker 2>You talked a little bit about the pre Golden Age design,

0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:28.120
<v Speaker 2>and then there's a number of Golden Age designs. What

0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:33.040
<v Speaker 2>stands out about that pre Golden Age design, specifically in

0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:37.800
<v Speaker 2>Maine and the types of golf that it yields versus

0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:42.800
<v Speaker 2>the more refined Golden Age architecture in Maine specifically.

0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:48.040
<v Speaker 1>Pre Golden Age, what you get is very natural golf

0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:52.520
<v Speaker 1>course design because they weren't spending much on constructing a

0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.360
<v Speaker 1>golf course to an extent, they didn't really know how

0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.920
<v Speaker 1>to construct a golf course, at least in the modern sense,

0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:01.640
<v Speaker 1>and so the course of are just laid out on

0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.120
<v Speaker 1>the land. The greens are very simple, and in Maine

0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.680
<v Speaker 1>you have a lot of rocks. Sometimes those rocks have

0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.840
<v Speaker 1>not been removed from the fairways and so they actually

0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.880
<v Speaker 1>create this kind of lenxy bumpiness, especially at Grindstone Neck

0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:17.640
<v Speaker 1>Golf Club, which was designed by Alex Finley, I believe

0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:19.840
<v Speaker 1>is a lot of the history of these courses. Of the

0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:23.960
<v Speaker 1>architectural history is super hazy because it hasn't been researched

0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:26.520
<v Speaker 1>all that well. But Alex Finley was a, you know,

0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:28.920
<v Speaker 1>one of the first wave of kind of Scottish American

0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.040
<v Speaker 1>golf architects who built a lot of the first versions

0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:36.880
<v Speaker 1>of courses that you know about. Grindstone Neck was his work, evidently,

0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:42.880
<v Speaker 1>and it still is his work, and it's very very natural.

0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.440
<v Speaker 1>What you'll also see in pre Golden Age design is

0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:50.400
<v Speaker 1>some stuff that might strike you as strange. Now, you know,

0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:54.200
<v Speaker 1>greens that are completely blind from the approach, stone that

0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:59.400
<v Speaker 1>are blocked by some kind of natural impediment that was

0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:03.000
<v Speaker 1>not consider it a bad thing to do pre Golden Age.

0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:05.280
<v Speaker 1>In fact, it was considered a good thing to do. Yeah,

0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:09.760
<v Speaker 1>put a little kind of you know, obstacle right in

0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.280
<v Speaker 1>front of the green. So these hazards that you had

0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:16.520
<v Speaker 1>to carry carry hazards were not verbotant in this era

0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.400
<v Speaker 1>as much as they became in the Golden Age and

0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.880
<v Speaker 1>in our current era of golf architecture. So you'll see

0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:26.160
<v Speaker 1>strange stuff like that. You'll see some features that may

0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:30.400
<v Speaker 1>not look totally natural to your eye, the chocolate drops

0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.400
<v Speaker 1>and things like that. You know, features that were built

0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:38.000
<v Speaker 1>to resemble Lynk's land but don't really completely resemble linksland

0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.880
<v Speaker 1>that look obviously artificial. So you'll see some of that.

0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.080
<v Speaker 1>But in general, the main thing that strikes me about

0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:46.880
<v Speaker 1>those kind of Victorian era or pre Golden Age golf

0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.400
<v Speaker 1>courses is just their sheer naturalness because they did not

0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:52.200
<v Speaker 1>spend much on constructing them.

0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:56.720
<v Speaker 2>That's state I think, like just in general, a different

0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.600
<v Speaker 2>style of golf. Like one of the things that I

0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.440
<v Speaker 2>stands out to me about this golf trip is just

0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:06.320
<v Speaker 2>the immense variety that you could get in design styles,

0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.479
<v Speaker 2>like different experiences, which it's cool, like if you were

0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.920
<v Speaker 2>going to go on a food tour, for example, you

0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.840
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't go just get all the same style of food.

0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.760
<v Speaker 2>You'd go to a city or an area. You'd go

0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:18.520
<v Speaker 2>to a food.

0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Truck, you'd go to the Michelin Star restaurant. Yeah.

0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I think that's the neat thing about this

0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:27.919
<v Speaker 2>trip is the variety. Let's you know, let's stay a

0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:31.119
<v Speaker 2>little general before we dive into some of the more

0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:35.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, nitty gritty at the trip. Roughly, what are

0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:38.399
<v Speaker 2>you looking at from a cost standpoint for this trip

0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:42.480
<v Speaker 2>in terms of green spees courses, if you wanted to

0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:44.520
<v Speaker 2>go pick off a couple of these, what was the

0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.399
<v Speaker 2>kind of the range of greens fees and the accessibility

0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:48.400
<v Speaker 2>of most of the courses.

0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:51.760
<v Speaker 1>You know, there was a pretty big range of green fees.

0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, some of them were higher than I expected,

0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:57.879
<v Speaker 1>and some of them were lower than I expected. But

0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Blank Bonnie Golf Links is an outer box golf course.

0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.520
<v Speaker 1>You put twenty five dollars in a mail slot and

0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:06.639
<v Speaker 1>you can play all day. It's a nine hole golf course.

0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:11.560
<v Speaker 1>So that's kind of the low end. Right. Wahwaana Golf

0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Course is a lovely public, everyday golf course that is

0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:22.760
<v Speaker 1>very accessible that's around thirty to forty bucks for nine holes,

0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:24.840
<v Speaker 1>and I believe there's a good deal for eighteen holes.

0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.719
<v Speaker 1>The higher end of publicly accessible golf courses that I

0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:33.080
<v Speaker 1>saw is more represented by Keebo Valley and especially Northeast

0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:37.440
<v Speaker 1>Tarbor Golf Club. Northeast Tarbor is a very refined golf course.

0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.720
<v Speaker 1>One indicator for a main golf course that has a

0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.560
<v Speaker 1>higher maintenance budget is that the fairways are irrigated.

0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:46.200
<v Speaker 2>That's great.

0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.920
<v Speaker 1>That's one quick and dirty way that you can tell,

0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, because a lot of the courses that I

0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.280
<v Speaker 1>saw the fairways are not irrigated, which I absolutely love,

0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.160
<v Speaker 1>by the way, But Northeast Tarbor is extremely well maintained

0:18:57.359 --> 0:18:59.560
<v Speaker 1>and a beautiful golf course with a good sense of

0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.160
<v Speaker 1>place to It's not like it's sticking out from its

0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:04.679
<v Speaker 1>setting more than the other golf courses, but it is

0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.400
<v Speaker 1>a more refined golf course. That green fee is more

0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.560
<v Speaker 1>up in the two hundred dollars range, I believe, and

0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:15.479
<v Speaker 1>it's only really public in the shoulder seasons during the summer.

0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.120
<v Speaker 1>It's a member course. You can play it in those

0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:22.359
<v Speaker 1>kind of pre summer and post summer months when the

0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:25.280
<v Speaker 1>golf course is still playable. So that's the low end

0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.640
<v Speaker 1>and the high end. So from Otter Box to Northeast

0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:32.320
<v Speaker 1>Tarbor Golf Club is approximately the range, a pretty big range,

0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:34.840
<v Speaker 1>but there's no five hundred dollar green fees out there.

0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:41.199
<v Speaker 2>In terms of must sees, is what we're like, the

0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.399
<v Speaker 2>absolute this is, you know, the star of this trip,

0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:46.840
<v Speaker 2>the stars.

0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:49.600
<v Speaker 1>The concept of must see is so tough when it

0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.679
<v Speaker 1>comes to Maine because you know, I would say a

0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.040
<v Speaker 1>place like Blink Bonnie is kind of a muss see

0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.320
<v Speaker 1>because you just have to have the experience of going

0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:01.919
<v Speaker 1>out and playing this kind of amateur architecture golf course

0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:06.600
<v Speaker 1>with holes that literally cross over each other and putting

0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.000
<v Speaker 1>money in an outer box. I think that's an experience

0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:11.399
<v Speaker 1>that you should have. But in terms of courses that

0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:16.720
<v Speaker 1>are just at a very high level architecturally and important

0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.640
<v Speaker 1>in that way, Keebo Valley comes to mind first and foremost.

0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:23.440
<v Speaker 1>I think for a long time, Keebo Valley was considered

0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.080
<v Speaker 1>the great course, the great course of the of the

0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.919
<v Speaker 1>down East region of Maine, and it has a wonderful

0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:35.359
<v Speaker 1>and pretty complicated architectural pedigree. But for a long time

0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.320
<v Speaker 1>that has been kind of the course in the region

0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:40.080
<v Speaker 1>and I think Northeast tarbor Is is up there with

0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:43.520
<v Speaker 1>it as well. So those are the those that's I

0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:45.399
<v Speaker 1>think you have to if you go to this region,

0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.199
<v Speaker 1>you have to go to Keebo Valley. That's the I

0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:51.359
<v Speaker 1>think that's the number one UH must see on the list.

0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:54.639
<v Speaker 2>And just so so we're you know, you know, in

0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:59.200
<v Speaker 2>terms of this trip, then with the shoulder season availability

0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:02.719
<v Speaker 2>of Northeast Heart, it seems to me that, like right

0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:06.400
<v Speaker 2>when you went is the ideal time to go.

0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.760
<v Speaker 1>I went right after Labor Day, and yeah, that's a

0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:11.760
<v Speaker 1>good time to go. It's also a time when some

0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:15.160
<v Speaker 1>clubs in the region, maybe not many of the courses

0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:19.560
<v Speaker 1>that I played, but certainly Portland Country Club, a lot

0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.479
<v Speaker 1>of those courses air rate right at Labor Day. And

0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:26.800
<v Speaker 1>so if that's not something that's to your taste, I

0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:30.359
<v Speaker 1>don't personally really mind it that much. But if you

0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:33.920
<v Speaker 1>would prefer to see the greens at their absolute highest level,

0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:36.879
<v Speaker 1>then the last week of August might be the ideal

0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:38.439
<v Speaker 1>time to go to Maine and probably the time when

0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:41.000
<v Speaker 1>you're going to get the best weather. But I went

0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:44.720
<v Speaker 1>the week after Labor Day and the weather was unbelievable.

0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:46.479
<v Speaker 1>People kept telling me it was the best weather they

0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:50.520
<v Speaker 1>had seen all year, and it almost literally couldn't have

0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:53.440
<v Speaker 1>been better. But I do think that in general, like

0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:55.840
<v Speaker 1>so because you can see a place like northeast Tarbor,

0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:59.560
<v Speaker 1>because a lot of the summer residents move out of

0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:05.360
<v Speaker 1>Maine during or after Labor Day, it is a good

0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:07.960
<v Speaker 1>idea to kind of go to Maine in September because

0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:11.080
<v Speaker 1>you can access the courses a little more easily and

0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:13.159
<v Speaker 1>you can kind of be free. What I would have

0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:15.720
<v Speaker 1>liked to have done on this trip if I hadn't

0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:18.800
<v Speaker 1>been doing it for professional reasons, is just go out

0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:20.680
<v Speaker 1>and drive and kind of like if I see a

0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:23.040
<v Speaker 1>sign for a golf course, go play it. I think

0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:25.200
<v Speaker 1>that would be a really wonderful way to do this

0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.000
<v Speaker 1>golf trip, and you could definitely do that in mid

0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:29.280
<v Speaker 1>to late September.

0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:33.320
<v Speaker 2>I would love to probably go to Katia National Park too.

0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:36.840
<v Speaker 2>That sounds like something like I think like one of

0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:39.760
<v Speaker 2>the other appeals of this trip is like the idea

0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:46.560
<v Speaker 2>of a family trip like this is very very doable,

0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:50.200
<v Speaker 2>where you play a couple rounds of golf, you start

0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:52.760
<v Speaker 2>to pick this off and you know it could be

0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:55.400
<v Speaker 2>a part of the country where you say, I want

0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:57.679
<v Speaker 2>to go back there over and over again, and you

0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.800
<v Speaker 2>eventually cover the whole you know, great golf area of Maine,

0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:05.520
<v Speaker 2>but you're doing it while, you know, while not burning

0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:08.000
<v Speaker 2>capital in your household.

0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:10.359
<v Speaker 1>Yes, you know, it would be a great family trip

0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:12.600
<v Speaker 1>because there's so much else to do, and for a

0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:15.520
<v Speaker 1>family trip, I would recommend in the down East region

0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:18.600
<v Speaker 1>staying in bar Harbor, which is the town where Kiba

0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:22.120
<v Speaker 1>Valley is and Northeast Tarbor is about a fifteen minute

0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:25.880
<v Speaker 1>drive away. Bar Harbor would is the resort town. It's

0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:28.399
<v Speaker 1>the busiest resort town that I saw that would be

0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:30.920
<v Speaker 1>a great place to stay. Rockport would be a good

0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:34.960
<v Speaker 1>place to stay. Bangor is a beautiful town and the

0:23:35.040 --> 0:23:37.800
<v Speaker 1>University of Maine is just outside of it. And so

0:23:37.840 --> 0:23:41.440
<v Speaker 1>those would be really good places to find a neat

0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:44.399
<v Speaker 1>hotel or resort or something like that and stay with family.

0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:45.800
<v Speaker 1>They would have plenty to do and you could go

0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:46.680
<v Speaker 1>out and play some golf.

0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:50.280
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to ask what were the towns like, what

0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:53.080
<v Speaker 2>was the what were the people like? You know, I

0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:56.920
<v Speaker 2>think like people in the towns are play an intricate

0:23:57.000 --> 0:24:00.280
<v Speaker 2>role and why people love going to the UK to

0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:03.000
<v Speaker 2>play golf. I think, you know, a lot of American

0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:06.360
<v Speaker 2>golf destinations. One of the things that you miss out

0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:10.560
<v Speaker 2>on is that you're at a resort and you are like,

0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:13.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm in this resort and I am here, and it's

0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:15.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of like Disney World, where I don't get to

0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:21.000
<v Speaker 2>experience the culture and the essence of the area. What's

0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:25.080
<v Speaker 2>the main like in terms of like, you know, I

0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:27.200
<v Speaker 2>know you were busy with golf, but what was it

0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:30.000
<v Speaker 2>like when you were in the town getting food, get

0:24:30.040 --> 0:24:33.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, coffee, different you know, provisions, what what? What

0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:37.040
<v Speaker 2>do you find you know, interesting about the towns and

0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:39.920
<v Speaker 2>culture of the areas well.

0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:41.800
<v Speaker 1>I will say I wish I had been able to

0:24:41.840 --> 0:24:45.320
<v Speaker 1>do more of this. I went to Dunkin Donuts more

0:24:45.359 --> 0:24:48.360
<v Speaker 1>often than I would have liked. You know, no disrespect

0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:50.280
<v Speaker 1>to Dunkin Donuts, but I sure, I'm sure there was

0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:53.800
<v Speaker 1>a good local coffee shop and bangor that I could

0:24:53.800 --> 0:24:57.199
<v Speaker 1>have gone to when I played Pinopscott Valley. But I

0:24:57.240 --> 0:24:59.200
<v Speaker 1>spent a lot of time on the golf courses. I

0:24:59.280 --> 0:25:02.240
<v Speaker 1>was photographing the golf courses, putting the drone up, playing

0:25:02.480 --> 0:25:04.200
<v Speaker 1>you thirty six holes a day the first couple of

0:25:04.280 --> 0:25:06.439
<v Speaker 1>days I was there, So there wasn't a lot of

0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:09.080
<v Speaker 1>time to explore the culture and the towns and things

0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:12.760
<v Speaker 1>like that. But from what I did see, the towns

0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:16.040
<v Speaker 1>are beautiful. The seaside towns are just the kind of

0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:20.439
<v Speaker 1>charming seaside towns that you dream about, old fishing towns

0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:24.200
<v Speaker 1>that have since kind of turned to tourism but still had

0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:29.240
<v Speaker 1>that feel of a town that's untouched by time. These

0:25:29.280 --> 0:25:31.760
<v Speaker 1>are the kinds of places that you keep driving by

0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:34.520
<v Speaker 1>over and over on your way to coastal golf courses

0:25:34.520 --> 0:25:37.240
<v Speaker 1>in Maine, and so they're kind of just picturesque and

0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:40.560
<v Speaker 1>beautiful and just what you want them to be. The people,

0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:45.240
<v Speaker 1>and primarily I met people at the golf courses, the superintendents,

0:25:45.320 --> 0:25:49.119
<v Speaker 1>the pros, the gms. That's who I would be talking

0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:51.720
<v Speaker 1>to when I got to the golf courses. I reached

0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:55.679
<v Speaker 1>out to the superintendents at every single course that I visited.

0:25:55.680 --> 0:25:57.800
<v Speaker 1>Didn't get to meet all of them, but and I

0:25:57.800 --> 0:26:00.680
<v Speaker 1>would typically talk to a pro or talk to a GM.

0:26:02.280 --> 0:26:05.280
<v Speaker 1>They were the best. They were amazing. They were so

0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:08.720
<v Speaker 1>excited to show off their golf courses. They were so

0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:12.679
<v Speaker 1>full of information and so full of passion for what

0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:16.960
<v Speaker 1>they were doing at their golf courses committed to the

0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:22.480
<v Speaker 1>old style of golf that these courses represent. Kevin Conley

0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:26.000
<v Speaker 1>at Grindstone Neck immediately comes to mind. Just a down

0:26:26.040 --> 0:26:30.360
<v Speaker 1>to earth guy who maintains Grindstone Neck. Is the superintendent

0:26:30.440 --> 0:26:33.320
<v Speaker 1>there and also the primary contact, you know, if you

0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:35.600
<v Speaker 1>want to make a tea time you can kind of

0:26:35.640 --> 0:26:38.040
<v Speaker 1>just get in touch with him and things like that.

0:26:38.760 --> 0:26:43.000
<v Speaker 1>He was so welcoming and had such great ideas about

0:26:43.000 --> 0:26:45.520
<v Speaker 1>what he was doing at this golf course. He's a

0:26:45.560 --> 0:26:48.919
<v Speaker 1>superintendent who has worked at some high level clubs in

0:26:48.960 --> 0:26:52.359
<v Speaker 1>his past, and Grindstone Neck is in the area where

0:26:52.359 --> 0:26:54.919
<v Speaker 1>he grew up, and so he just moved there and

0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:58.680
<v Speaker 1>is now maintaining that golf course in exactly the way

0:26:58.720 --> 0:27:01.439
<v Speaker 1>that it needs to be maintained. And it was lovely

0:27:01.480 --> 0:27:04.080
<v Speaker 1>to meet him, and I think of him as kind

0:27:04.119 --> 0:27:07.160
<v Speaker 1>of a representative of a lot of the golf course

0:27:07.200 --> 0:27:10.679
<v Speaker 1>people I met in Maine. They were some of the

0:27:10.680 --> 0:27:14.920
<v Speaker 1>most impressive and friendliest people that I've met on any

0:27:14.920 --> 0:27:15.400
<v Speaker 1>golf trip.

0:27:16.800 --> 0:27:20.359
<v Speaker 2>When you say maintained the way it should be maintained,

0:27:20.560 --> 0:27:21.600
<v Speaker 2>what does that mean?

0:27:22.440 --> 0:27:26.600
<v Speaker 1>No irrigation in the fairways, nice and firm in late

0:27:26.640 --> 0:27:32.160
<v Speaker 1>summer and just very simple. The fairways are super wide, right,

0:27:32.240 --> 0:27:36.879
<v Speaker 1>there's not like a defined contour to the mowing lines

0:27:36.920 --> 0:27:38.879
<v Speaker 1>of the fairways like you see at a lot of modern

0:27:38.960 --> 0:27:42.359
<v Speaker 1>courses in a corridor that's open or that shares holes.

0:27:42.720 --> 0:27:46.480
<v Speaker 1>It's just mown out and it's it's very simple, straight

0:27:46.560 --> 0:27:52.200
<v Speaker 1>lines and there are two primary cuts that are used.

0:27:52.200 --> 0:27:56.600
<v Speaker 1>There's not all these all these intermediate cuts. It's very

0:27:56.640 --> 0:28:02.040
<v Speaker 1>straightforward maintenance and the nature along the sides of the

0:28:02.040 --> 0:28:07.639
<v Speaker 1>holes is completely intact. It is exactly what it looks

0:28:07.680 --> 0:28:10.720
<v Speaker 1>like if you were to take a hike through Acadian

0:28:10.800 --> 0:28:15.480
<v Speaker 1>National Park or whatever other park in this region. It's

0:28:15.560 --> 0:28:18.880
<v Speaker 1>not the golf course is not fighting its setting. It's

0:28:18.960 --> 0:28:22.840
<v Speaker 1>just sitting there. And yes, this approach to maintenance can

0:28:22.920 --> 0:28:26.359
<v Speaker 1>can have some drawbacks when it rains. I'm sure that

0:28:26.560 --> 0:28:30.040
<v Speaker 1>a place like Grindstone Neck or Blink Bonnie or Kuba

0:28:30.160 --> 0:28:33.840
<v Speaker 1>Valley can get a little bit soggy because there's not

0:28:33.920 --> 0:28:39.120
<v Speaker 1>a whole lot of high tech drainage infrastructure to dry

0:28:39.160 --> 0:28:41.880
<v Speaker 1>off the golf course. There's no subair under the greens.

0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:46.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure whatever the weather rains is what the golf bears.

0:28:47.120 --> 0:28:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah twenty years, yeah, yeah.

0:28:50.480 --> 0:28:54.440
<v Speaker 1>I'll be all be have historical renovations done right as

0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:58.880
<v Speaker 1>they as they say. So, yeah, that's the I was

0:28:58.880 --> 0:29:02.440
<v Speaker 1>there during a good Weathereriod during a druy period. It's great.

0:29:02.720 --> 0:29:05.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure. If it's rainy then yeah, you're you're roughing

0:29:05.160 --> 0:29:05.880
<v Speaker 1>it a little bit.

0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:08.240
<v Speaker 2>If you send If we send too many people on

0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:12.360
<v Speaker 2>this trip, then they'll have money to do the historical renovations.

0:29:12.680 --> 0:29:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's that's what I sort of fear. Maybe we

0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:16.280
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't publish this podcast.

0:29:20.480 --> 0:29:22.240
<v Speaker 2>So we've talked a little bit about some of the

0:29:22.240 --> 0:29:26.920
<v Speaker 2>golf courses. I wanted to do kind of some superlatives here.

0:29:29.360 --> 0:29:32.200
<v Speaker 2>What was the best value? And I'm going to take

0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:35.560
<v Speaker 2>Blake Bonnie the twenty five dollars all day, because we've

0:29:35.560 --> 0:29:38.239
<v Speaker 2>already talked about that's cheating. Yeah, we're gonna take that

0:29:38.280 --> 0:29:40.479
<v Speaker 2>one out of it because we've already talked about it.

0:29:42.320 --> 0:29:46.240
<v Speaker 1>Gosh, the best value is a little tricky. I would

0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:52.000
<v Speaker 1>say probably Wawanak golf course. This is a Wayne Styles course. Okay,

0:29:52.080 --> 0:29:57.000
<v Speaker 1>So Wayne Styles is a Golden Age era architect who

0:29:57.080 --> 0:30:00.040
<v Speaker 1>worked a lot in Maine. You see a lot of

0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:05.320
<v Speaker 1>golf courses designed by Styles and Van Cleek in this region.

0:30:05.440 --> 0:30:08.160
<v Speaker 1>His partner during the nineteen twenties was John Van Cleek.

0:30:08.960 --> 0:30:12.320
<v Speaker 1>Styles also did some well known courses in New England,

0:30:12.960 --> 0:30:20.680
<v Speaker 1>including Taconic and farther toward Portland. In Maine, Proutsneck Country

0:30:20.680 --> 0:30:23.320
<v Speaker 1>Club is very well regarded a course that I did

0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:26.120
<v Speaker 1>not see on this trip. They're not particularly interested in

0:30:26.800 --> 0:30:29.640
<v Speaker 1>coverage and so that was a big reason that I

0:30:29.680 --> 0:30:34.400
<v Speaker 1>didn't go to it. But there are many accessible, public,

0:30:35.120 --> 0:30:38.400
<v Speaker 1>affordable Wayne Styles golf courses that you can see in

0:30:38.520 --> 0:30:41.920
<v Speaker 1>Maine and in the neighboring states. Is one of those

0:30:41.920 --> 0:30:42.600
<v Speaker 1>golf courses.

0:30:44.480 --> 0:30:48.040
<v Speaker 2>What would you Yeah, I think like Styles Van Cleek

0:30:48.800 --> 0:30:52.600
<v Speaker 2>to me would be like the underrated seventies rock band

0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:55.320
<v Speaker 2>that has a lot of good songs but nobody really

0:30:55.320 --> 0:30:58.560
<v Speaker 2>knows about. Yeah, I don't know what the rake comp

0:30:58.880 --> 0:31:02.040
<v Speaker 2>would be for that, but that's how I would describe them,

0:31:02.240 --> 0:31:02.520
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:31:02.880 --> 0:31:06.800
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, they're they're the they're the hidden indie band at

0:31:06.800 --> 0:31:09.840
<v Speaker 1>this point, and you're you're proud to wear the T shirt.

0:31:10.080 --> 0:31:12.040
<v Speaker 1>But you know, maybe in a few years they're going

0:31:12.120 --> 0:31:14.320
<v Speaker 1>to be a little bit overexposed. They'll get signed by

0:31:14.320 --> 0:31:17.400
<v Speaker 1>a major label and people will think they're they're a

0:31:17.400 --> 0:31:21.200
<v Speaker 1>bit passe. But yeah, I mean that, you know, Styles

0:31:21.240 --> 0:31:23.880
<v Speaker 1>is one of those names that golf architecture nerds kind

0:31:23.880 --> 0:31:27.320
<v Speaker 1>of whisper to each other, and you know, in a sense,

0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:30.440
<v Speaker 1>it's sort of like where Langford and Moreau was before

0:31:30.520 --> 0:31:33.160
<v Speaker 1>you completely overexpose them and ruin them.

0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:36.320
<v Speaker 2>Andy right, I don't think they're ruined at all.

0:31:36.520 --> 0:31:41.160
<v Speaker 1>There's Langford and Moreau is amazing. This is what people say.

0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:43.680
<v Speaker 2>There's sometimes about our coverage of more awareness.

0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:46.840
<v Speaker 1>There's more awareness around, more understanding of Langford and Moreau.

0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:49.960
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't say that Wayne. What I saw of Wayne

0:31:49.960 --> 0:31:52.600
<v Speaker 1>Styles on this trip would make me think that he

0:31:52.760 --> 0:31:56.920
<v Speaker 1>was an architect on the level of William Lankford, especially

0:31:56.960 --> 0:32:00.440
<v Speaker 1>when it comes to the internal contouring of greens. Styles

0:32:00.440 --> 0:32:02.680
<v Speaker 1>as greens, as far as I could see, were pretty simple.

0:32:03.080 --> 0:32:06.280
<v Speaker 1>There are some interesting things going on at the exteriors

0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:08.719
<v Speaker 1>of his greens, the way he kind of builds up

0:32:08.720 --> 0:32:11.960
<v Speaker 1>the shoulders against slopes. There is kind of a Wayne

0:32:11.960 --> 0:32:15.680
<v Speaker 1>Styles signature there that you can see at courses like

0:32:15.720 --> 0:32:21.160
<v Speaker 1>Wahwanack and North Haven. But in general, I'm not going

0:32:21.200 --> 0:32:24.680
<v Speaker 1>to beat the drum for Wayne Styles as loudly as

0:32:24.760 --> 0:32:28.160
<v Speaker 1>I might for Langford and Morow though I think that

0:32:28.280 --> 0:32:31.440
<v Speaker 1>Styles and Van Kleek were very good routers of golf

0:32:31.480 --> 0:32:36.000
<v Speaker 1>courses and their natural approach to golf architecture is something

0:32:36.040 --> 0:32:39.560
<v Speaker 1>that I really appreciate and enjoy. So whenever you see

0:32:39.680 --> 0:32:42.400
<v Speaker 1>that Styles has designed a course, go seek it out.

0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:44.760
<v Speaker 1>And in a place like Wamanach, you're going to pay

0:32:44.920 --> 0:32:48.440
<v Speaker 1>the thirty dollars or something for nine holes somewhere around there,

0:32:48.880 --> 0:32:51.600
<v Speaker 1>and that's hard to come by anywhere.

0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:56.200
<v Speaker 2>There's a ton of nine hole courses. What's the reasoning

0:32:56.320 --> 0:32:58.880
<v Speaker 2>for the propensity of nine holes? I have a theory,

0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:01.880
<v Speaker 2>but you know, I'm curious if you know anything.

0:33:01.640 --> 0:33:05.320
<v Speaker 1>Well, I want to hear your theory. Here's mine. It's

0:33:05.320 --> 0:33:09.720
<v Speaker 1>simply that main golf courses often did not have the

0:33:09.760 --> 0:33:14.040
<v Speaker 1>funds or the reason to expand to eighteen holes. So

0:33:14.160 --> 0:33:17.120
<v Speaker 1>when they were established in the late eighteen nineties as

0:33:17.200 --> 0:33:19.960
<v Speaker 1>nine hole courses, as many courses across the country were,

0:33:20.840 --> 0:33:23.280
<v Speaker 1>they did not then have the reason in the nineteen

0:33:23.320 --> 0:33:27.720
<v Speaker 1>teens and twenties to expand back to to expand to

0:33:27.960 --> 0:33:31.040
<v Speaker 1>eighteen holes, bring in another architect to redesign the nine

0:33:31.040 --> 0:33:34.240
<v Speaker 1>holes and add another nine holes, as so many courses

0:33:34.280 --> 0:33:35.160
<v Speaker 1>did later on.

0:33:35.760 --> 0:33:38.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's I agree with that. I think

0:33:38.160 --> 0:33:41.200
<v Speaker 2>you see a lot of nine holers in the rural Midwest,

0:33:41.560 --> 0:33:45.040
<v Speaker 2>or nine holers that were designed in the twenties and

0:33:45.080 --> 0:33:49.000
<v Speaker 2>thirties and then they were, as you said, expanded and renovated.

0:33:49.040 --> 0:33:52.640
<v Speaker 2>It often ruined. You know, David Gill comes to mind

0:33:52.720 --> 0:33:55.640
<v Speaker 2>as just a hit man. And there's the worst thing

0:33:55.680 --> 0:33:57.760
<v Speaker 2>you can you can the worst thing you can see

0:33:57.840 --> 0:34:02.160
<v Speaker 2>is a gil a gil a Gill credit to the design.

0:34:02.520 --> 0:34:06.200
<v Speaker 2>You know that some bad stuff happened at that old

0:34:06.200 --> 0:34:08.719
<v Speaker 2>school golf course. So I would agree with that. I

0:34:08.760 --> 0:34:11.520
<v Speaker 2>think like a lot of these towns, like I think

0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:16.360
<v Speaker 2>it's like kind of telling and maybe something that a

0:34:16.400 --> 0:34:20.560
<v Speaker 2>lot of municipalities, a lot of towns that have golf

0:34:20.600 --> 0:34:26.080
<v Speaker 2>courses that might not be that popular should consider as like,

0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:29.399
<v Speaker 2>would we be more popular? Do we really only need

0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:33.360
<v Speaker 2>nine holes from a maintenance, from a land use like

0:34:33.520 --> 0:34:37.800
<v Speaker 2>it's like and I think there's I think, like, honestly,

0:34:37.840 --> 0:34:39.759
<v Speaker 2>a lot of days, I think nine holes is the

0:34:39.840 --> 0:34:41.160
<v Speaker 2>right amount of golf.

0:34:42.160 --> 0:34:46.160
<v Speaker 1>Especially now that pace of play is what it is.

0:34:46.719 --> 0:34:49.440
<v Speaker 1>When you hear about how people played the game. In

0:34:49.520 --> 0:34:52.600
<v Speaker 1>the early days, eighteen holes was considered to be a

0:34:52.640 --> 0:34:55.600
<v Speaker 1>two and a half hour to three hour pursuit that's

0:34:55.920 --> 0:34:58.880
<v Speaker 1>no longer how we see it. And so nine holes

0:34:58.880 --> 0:35:03.680
<v Speaker 1>certainly does into people's days a lot better than eighteen holes,

0:35:03.719 --> 0:35:06.320
<v Speaker 1>and it can become part of your everyday life. Place

0:35:06.440 --> 0:35:10.400
<v Speaker 1>like Grindstone Neck, a place like mcgun to cook Golf

0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:14.200
<v Speaker 1>Club or Wawanak can just be there for you on

0:35:14.239 --> 0:35:16.960
<v Speaker 1>a weekday. And that's the beauty of it. And I

0:35:16.960 --> 0:35:22.239
<v Speaker 1>think also architecturally speaking, a lot of properties have the

0:35:22.280 --> 0:35:28.480
<v Speaker 1>ability to contain nine good holes. Yeah, but not eighteen.

0:35:29.320 --> 0:35:31.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean you see it so often, like you hit

0:35:31.560 --> 0:35:33.640
<v Speaker 2>a dull stretch of land, you like.

0:35:34.160 --> 0:35:37.239
<v Speaker 1>Just chop this off right, yeah, you know, yeah.

0:35:37.080 --> 0:35:40.319
<v Speaker 2>Or you see something like a hole that would be

0:35:40.320 --> 0:35:44.680
<v Speaker 2>better as one hole that's two holes. Yeah, you see

0:35:44.680 --> 0:35:47.239
<v Speaker 2>that all the time. Or you see like a congested

0:35:47.320 --> 0:35:49.759
<v Speaker 2>area that it's like, oh, if we got rid of

0:35:49.800 --> 0:35:53.040
<v Speaker 2>some of these holes, it would be better. Back to

0:35:53.080 --> 0:35:57.880
<v Speaker 2>the main question is quite superlatives. Sure, what was the

0:35:57.880 --> 0:35:59.120
<v Speaker 2>most unique experience?

0:35:59.760 --> 0:36:03.640
<v Speaker 1>No doubt North Haven Golf Club. This was my favorite

0:36:03.680 --> 0:36:07.640
<v Speaker 1>experience on the trip. Might have been my favorite golf course,

0:36:07.719 --> 0:36:09.880
<v Speaker 1>though Portland Country Club was by far and away the

0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:12.440
<v Speaker 1>best golf course that I saw on this trip, no

0:36:12.480 --> 0:36:16.160
<v Speaker 1>doubt about it. I loved Portland Country Club, but as

0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:20.479
<v Speaker 1>a full experience, there's nothing like north Haven Golf Club

0:36:20.520 --> 0:36:26.000
<v Speaker 1>that I've experienced before. You get on a ferry in Rockland, Maine,

0:36:26.280 --> 0:36:30.960
<v Speaker 1>seaside town, and you spend an hour riding on that

0:36:31.040 --> 0:36:33.880
<v Speaker 1>ferry out to this little island. It's kind of like

0:36:33.920 --> 0:36:35.640
<v Speaker 1>a chain of islands out there. There are a few

0:36:35.640 --> 0:36:39.080
<v Speaker 1>different ones. The town of north Haven is where this

0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:42.480
<v Speaker 1>ferry took me. I took my golf clubs along with me.

0:36:42.600 --> 0:36:46.640
<v Speaker 1>Was literally carrying my golf clubs on the ferry. Got

0:36:46.680 --> 0:36:50.200
<v Speaker 1>off the ferry at the dock in north Haven and

0:36:50.280 --> 0:36:53.399
<v Speaker 1>walked to the golf course. You can take your car

0:36:53.440 --> 0:36:55.200
<v Speaker 1>with you if you want, but you have to reserve

0:36:55.239 --> 0:36:57.399
<v Speaker 1>it. It costs a little more money and the golf course

0:36:57.440 --> 0:36:58.439
<v Speaker 1>is pretty close to town.

0:36:58.680 --> 0:37:00.560
<v Speaker 2>So you just saw he took I got off of

0:37:00.560 --> 0:37:02.480
<v Speaker 2>the ferry and walked with your clubs there.

0:37:02.760 --> 0:37:06.400
<v Speaker 1>That's right. It was amazing. It was about a fifteen

0:37:06.440 --> 0:37:10.200
<v Speaker 1>to twenty minute walk and I got out there and

0:37:11.120 --> 0:37:13.920
<v Speaker 1>it was just what you would imagine. It's a country

0:37:14.440 --> 0:37:17.680
<v Speaker 1>golf course. There are a few people there who work

0:37:17.840 --> 0:37:20.919
<v Speaker 1>in the shop and maintain the course. I ran into

0:37:20.960 --> 0:37:23.560
<v Speaker 1>the president of the club who was going out at

0:37:23.560 --> 0:37:29.080
<v Speaker 1>about the same time that I was such friendly, again,

0:37:29.239 --> 0:37:32.200
<v Speaker 1>down to earth people. It was great to talk to them.

0:37:32.640 --> 0:37:38.040
<v Speaker 1>And this course is just what I'm looking for when

0:37:38.080 --> 0:37:42.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to Maine. It is on the crest of

0:37:43.000 --> 0:37:45.520
<v Speaker 1>this hill sort of, so a lot of the fairways

0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:49.200
<v Speaker 1>run on side slopes, either on one side of the

0:37:49.200 --> 0:37:52.160
<v Speaker 1>peak of the hill or the other side, and it

0:37:52.239 --> 0:37:56.600
<v Speaker 1>is incredibly wide. These are not tree lined corridors. There

0:37:56.600 --> 0:37:59.680
<v Speaker 1>are trees around the golf course, but they never they

0:37:59.760 --> 0:38:02.960
<v Speaker 1>never planted trees on this golf course. This is again

0:38:03.080 --> 0:38:05.600
<v Speaker 1>one of the things that's a blessing about not having

0:38:05.680 --> 0:38:09.240
<v Speaker 1>the funding to make changes to golf courses after they're built.

0:38:10.120 --> 0:38:12.840
<v Speaker 1>They never had the money to do a tree planting

0:38:12.920 --> 0:38:17.120
<v Speaker 1>beautification program. So in the core of this golf course

0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:21.680
<v Speaker 1>it is untried and these fairways just connect to each other.

0:38:22.040 --> 0:38:25.920
<v Speaker 1>It's a big sloping field that you're playing golf on,

0:38:26.400 --> 0:38:28.720
<v Speaker 1>and that the way that the holes use this land

0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:32.680
<v Speaker 1>is very clever and very sophisticated. It was designed by

0:38:32.680 --> 0:38:36.319
<v Speaker 1>Wayne Styles in nineteen thirty two. So actually, as as

0:38:36.360 --> 0:38:38.600
<v Speaker 1>the courses I saw on this trip go, this was

0:38:38.640 --> 0:38:42.080
<v Speaker 1>a fairly recently built golf course nineteen thirty two is

0:38:42.120 --> 0:38:45.240
<v Speaker 1>actually not not before a depression?

0:38:45.800 --> 0:38:47.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like what are the last want?

0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:49.920
<v Speaker 1>Right? Yeah, this was just as things were kind of

0:38:49.920 --> 0:38:53.080
<v Speaker 1>shutting down. You know, you saw a few courses being

0:38:53.080 --> 0:38:55.719
<v Speaker 1>built in America in the early thirties, but then as

0:38:55.760 --> 0:38:57.840
<v Speaker 1>it became clear what the circumstances were.

0:38:57.960 --> 0:39:00.879
<v Speaker 2>The only courses were being built in the depression were

0:39:00.920 --> 0:39:04.600
<v Speaker 2>oil oil towns, Perry Maxwell getting work in the Oklahoma

0:39:04.600 --> 0:39:05.480
<v Speaker 2>and the oil hubs.

0:39:05.800 --> 0:39:09.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's right. It'scummy Perry Maxwell taking the oil money.

0:39:10.920 --> 0:39:13.560
<v Speaker 2>Different different kind of oil money than today's oil money.

0:39:13.600 --> 0:39:19.040
<v Speaker 1>That's right. This is not a sovereign wealth fund North Haven,

0:39:19.719 --> 0:39:21.279
<v Speaker 1>So that's kind of the vibe of the golf course.

0:39:21.280 --> 0:39:24.600
<v Speaker 1>Then it has this one hole that's out on the coast.

0:39:24.880 --> 0:39:30.359
<v Speaker 1>You walk from the fifth green through this little path

0:39:30.400 --> 0:39:32.359
<v Speaker 1>that goes through a tunnel of trees, and then you

0:39:32.560 --> 0:39:36.240
<v Speaker 1>arrive at this tea that's right on the ocean, and

0:39:36.400 --> 0:39:39.799
<v Speaker 1>you play a little par three that goes over this

0:39:40.040 --> 0:39:43.080
<v Speaker 1>tiny cove to a green that's set on this kind

0:39:43.120 --> 0:39:46.200
<v Speaker 1>of spit of land that extends out. I think if

0:39:46.200 --> 0:39:49.640
<v Speaker 1>they were to remove the trees along the left side

0:39:49.640 --> 0:39:53.279
<v Speaker 1>of this hole. There are trees between the hole and

0:39:53.360 --> 0:39:56.279
<v Speaker 1>the ocean. If they were to remove those trees, and

0:39:56.320 --> 0:39:59.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm not saying that I think they should, because that

0:39:59.360 --> 0:40:02.040
<v Speaker 1>tree removal takes money and I'm not expecting a course

0:40:02.120 --> 0:40:03.520
<v Speaker 1>like this to spend a lot of money on a

0:40:03.520 --> 0:40:06.640
<v Speaker 1>course renovation. But if these trees somehow just went away,

0:40:06.680 --> 0:40:09.080
<v Speaker 1>say they were knocked down in a storm, this would

0:40:09.080 --> 0:40:12.960
<v Speaker 1>be a much more famous golf course because of this hole.

0:40:13.400 --> 0:40:15.040
<v Speaker 1>But in any case, you play that hole and you

0:40:15.080 --> 0:40:17.920
<v Speaker 1>go back inland, and I think, really the great holes

0:40:17.920 --> 0:40:20.759
<v Speaker 1>at this golf course are the ones along these slopes.

0:40:21.239 --> 0:40:25.520
<v Speaker 1>They you know, it's one of those courses. It's I

0:40:25.520 --> 0:40:28.799
<v Speaker 1>don't want to make an unfair comparison, but like the

0:40:28.840 --> 0:40:31.720
<v Speaker 1>old course at Saint Andrew's, you stand on a tee

0:40:32.320 --> 0:40:36.080
<v Speaker 1>and you're not looking out at a defined hole. You

0:40:36.280 --> 0:40:40.120
<v Speaker 1>have an awareness of where the green is and your

0:40:40.200 --> 0:40:43.200
<v Speaker 1>task is to get across the land to that green.

0:40:43.920 --> 0:40:46.160
<v Speaker 1>But the way the holes are set up does not

0:40:46.239 --> 0:40:48.959
<v Speaker 1>give you directions about how to do that. And there's

0:40:48.960 --> 0:40:51.399
<v Speaker 1>something to me so pleasurable about that, and that's why

0:40:51.440 --> 0:40:54.040
<v Speaker 1>I enjoyed north Haven so much, and just the experience

0:40:54.040 --> 0:40:55.879
<v Speaker 1>of being out on the island. You know, you're kind

0:40:55.880 --> 0:40:58.560
<v Speaker 1>of out there for the day. It takes a day

0:40:58.600 --> 0:41:00.440
<v Speaker 1>to take this trip. That that's the that's the thing

0:41:00.480 --> 0:41:02.799
<v Speaker 1>that's difficult about it. I almost didn't take this trip

0:41:02.840 --> 0:41:05.360
<v Speaker 1>because I was like, do I really want to spend

0:41:05.520 --> 0:41:08.800
<v Speaker 1>one day basically seeing one golf course when I'm spending

0:41:08.840 --> 0:41:13.680
<v Speaker 1>every other day seeing three, maybe even four golf courses.

0:41:14.400 --> 0:41:17.200
<v Speaker 1>But it was totally worth it, and I'd recommend it.

0:41:17.600 --> 0:41:20.439
<v Speaker 1>You end up taking the ferry back at about three

0:41:20.719 --> 0:41:23.160
<v Speaker 1>forty five pm, so you're just.

0:41:23.840 --> 0:41:26.080
<v Speaker 2>So people live out there in the summer.

0:41:26.360 --> 0:41:29.320
<v Speaker 1>People more people, far more people live out there in

0:41:29.360 --> 0:41:32.200
<v Speaker 1>the summer than live out year round, but there there

0:41:32.239 --> 0:41:35.400
<v Speaker 1>are locals who are there year round as well. And

0:41:35.520 --> 0:41:37.239
<v Speaker 1>when I was waiting for the ferry, I got back

0:41:37.280 --> 0:41:40.320
<v Speaker 1>to the town about an hour hour and a half

0:41:40.360 --> 0:41:42.799
<v Speaker 1>before the ferry left, and I just sat there and

0:41:42.840 --> 0:41:45.920
<v Speaker 1>waited for the ferry, obviously, and.

0:41:47.480 --> 0:41:49.960
<v Speaker 2>In the shops with your golf clubs.

0:41:49.760 --> 0:41:51.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's just set the golf clubs out on the

0:41:51.480 --> 0:41:53.800
<v Speaker 1>street and left them there because I was like, nobody's

0:41:53.840 --> 0:41:57.560
<v Speaker 1>taken these. It's an experience that you don't have very

0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:00.239
<v Speaker 1>often in modern life, where you're just waiting around for

0:42:00.320 --> 0:42:03.840
<v Speaker 1>something and there's not really there's shops with internet and

0:42:03.840 --> 0:42:05.719
<v Speaker 1>stuff like that, but it's not something that you're thinking

0:42:05.719 --> 0:42:08.200
<v Speaker 1>about doing, like looking at your phone or it's always

0:42:08.239 --> 0:42:10.319
<v Speaker 1>just kind of being there. And there are these local

0:42:10.400 --> 0:42:12.320
<v Speaker 1>kids who are playing a game of hide and seek

0:42:12.760 --> 0:42:15.920
<v Speaker 1>around the downtown area, like running into shops and asking

0:42:15.960 --> 0:42:19.480
<v Speaker 1>the shopkeepers if they could hide behind the counters and

0:42:19.800 --> 0:42:22.120
<v Speaker 1>things like that. And so I just got I got

0:42:22.120 --> 0:42:24.399
<v Speaker 1>a little sense of what that local life is because

0:42:24.400 --> 0:42:26.160
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the summer residents had left by the

0:42:26.160 --> 0:42:28.480
<v Speaker 1>time I was there. Again, people leave around Labor Day,

0:42:29.160 --> 0:42:32.839
<v Speaker 1>and it was a beautiful experience. I loved it, and

0:42:33.120 --> 0:42:34.120
<v Speaker 1>I want to do it again.

0:42:35.440 --> 0:42:40.400
<v Speaker 2>All right, let's uh, now you got the most most

0:42:40.440 --> 0:42:45.200
<v Speaker 2>unique experience set? Yeah, which course do you feel like

0:42:45.520 --> 0:42:46.799
<v Speaker 2>has the most potential?

0:42:50.239 --> 0:42:55.720
<v Speaker 1>Penobscot Valley Country Club? Donald Ross design legit Donald Ross Design.

0:42:56.239 --> 0:42:58.480
<v Speaker 1>The way the routing works in and out of the

0:42:58.520 --> 0:43:02.880
<v Speaker 1>corners of this property is definitively Donald Ross. Is not

0:43:02.920 --> 0:43:06.680
<v Speaker 1>one of those courses that he spent a day pointing

0:43:06.680 --> 0:43:09.960
<v Speaker 1>at things at he designed. This golf course has a

0:43:10.000 --> 0:43:12.680
<v Speaker 1>really good set of grains, looks and feels like a

0:43:12.680 --> 0:43:15.319
<v Speaker 1>Donald Ross golf course on a very very good piece

0:43:15.360 --> 0:43:21.520
<v Speaker 1>of land. This club. This course absolutely screwed itself. About

0:43:21.560 --> 0:43:25.280
<v Speaker 1>twenty five years ago, they decided to build a big

0:43:25.600 --> 0:43:29.799
<v Speaker 1>iceore of a clubhouse. It was a private club at

0:43:29.800 --> 0:43:33.880
<v Speaker 1>this point, and the clubhouse, apparently, from what I heard,

0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:38.880
<v Speaker 1>bankrupted the club. It is just a wonderful representative story

0:43:39.520 --> 0:43:43.680
<v Speaker 1>about something that happens pretty commonly and shouldn't happen. The

0:43:43.760 --> 0:43:47.760
<v Speaker 1>course became public after that got purchased by a golf

0:43:47.800 --> 0:43:52.400
<v Speaker 1>course operator that was mainly regional, and this operator decided

0:43:52.400 --> 0:43:55.160
<v Speaker 1>to renovate the golf course. They called it a restoration

0:43:55.880 --> 0:43:59.040
<v Speaker 1>in the late two thousands. They did the renovation right

0:43:59.040 --> 0:44:01.320
<v Speaker 1>around two thousand and seven, and I think you already

0:44:01.360 --> 0:44:04.359
<v Speaker 1>know where this story is going. The renovation wasn't very good.

0:44:05.360 --> 0:44:07.880
<v Speaker 1>They did some weird things with the bunkers. I'm not

0:44:07.920 --> 0:44:10.919
<v Speaker 1>sure why they did those things. They kind of made

0:44:10.960 --> 0:44:17.680
<v Speaker 1>them me look like these wavy edged modern bunkers. Yeah,

0:44:17.880 --> 0:44:21.879
<v Speaker 1>super bright white sand does not look like anything Donald

0:44:22.000 --> 0:44:27.600
<v Speaker 1>Ross ever built. Donald Ross never constructed little frilly wavy edges.

0:44:28.239 --> 0:44:31.240
<v Speaker 1>They made this decision to build these bunkers. They added

0:44:31.280 --> 0:44:36.880
<v Speaker 1>some bunkers. It was not really a faithful historical project.

0:44:37.239 --> 0:44:41.239
<v Speaker 1>Of course, the recession hit and this operator seems to

0:44:41.320 --> 0:44:44.719
<v Speaker 1>have tried to divest itself of a lot of its

0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:48.120
<v Speaker 1>golf courses around this time, and it seems to me

0:44:48.239 --> 0:44:52.040
<v Speaker 1>that the club was in no place to maintain these

0:44:52.120 --> 0:44:56.080
<v Speaker 1>new little fancy bunkers, and the edges of them have

0:44:56.200 --> 0:45:01.080
<v Speaker 1>literally caved in over the years. So they used to

0:45:01.080 --> 0:45:05.839
<v Speaker 1>be these these fancy, little fiddly edges. Now they're just

0:45:06.000 --> 0:45:09.880
<v Speaker 1>like these raw walls that have caved in because of

0:45:10.080 --> 0:45:12.480
<v Speaker 1>weather and other factors, and just the fact that they

0:45:13.040 --> 0:45:17.280
<v Speaker 1>don't seem situated to maintain anything that takes intensive maintenance.

0:45:17.840 --> 0:45:19.400
<v Speaker 1>And so I actually kind of like the look of

0:45:19.440 --> 0:45:24.600
<v Speaker 1>the bunkers now. They look to me this is this

0:45:24.680 --> 0:45:28.360
<v Speaker 1>is sort of an esthetic choice that that I would

0:45:28.360 --> 0:45:30.600
<v Speaker 1>sort of endorse. But I don't think they're very easy

0:45:30.640 --> 0:45:33.600
<v Speaker 1>to maintain right now. I think they're problematic for the

0:45:33.640 --> 0:45:36.960
<v Speaker 1>maintenance team at the course, and they're starting to be overgrown.

0:45:37.000 --> 0:45:40.080
<v Speaker 1>A lot of them have kind of thick weeds growing

0:45:40.120 --> 0:45:46.880
<v Speaker 1>in them. This is a struggling course that has been neglected,

0:45:47.040 --> 0:45:51.640
<v Speaker 1>that has been treated poorly, that has really wonderful, authentic

0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:55.480
<v Speaker 1>Donald Ross bones. It's gonna be a fantastic golf course

0:45:55.600 --> 0:45:58.960
<v Speaker 1>and the land is truly very very good, especially on

0:45:59.000 --> 0:46:02.719
<v Speaker 1>the back nine. Wonderful up and down undulation to the

0:46:02.760 --> 0:46:06.120
<v Speaker 1>land while still being quite walkable. There's even a semi

0:46:06.239 --> 0:46:09.279
<v Speaker 1>volcano hole. All sorts of stuff out there that people

0:46:09.320 --> 0:46:13.360
<v Speaker 1>would love. It needs, it needs a bit of TLC,

0:46:13.560 --> 0:46:15.760
<v Speaker 1>but it needs the it needs the right kind of TLC.

0:46:15.960 --> 0:46:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Just just seems small, just like a like a superintendent that

0:46:20.920 --> 0:46:24.000
<v Speaker 2>gets super into it and can make some you know,

0:46:24.400 --> 0:46:26.719
<v Speaker 2>do some stuff in the in the shoulder seasons right.

0:46:26.680 --> 0:46:29.080
<v Speaker 1>And has it has a proper budget and team, which

0:46:29.120 --> 0:46:31.800
<v Speaker 1>is not easy in Maine because the season is so short.

0:46:31.960 --> 0:46:34.239
<v Speaker 1>But it seems like they could do something there for sure,

0:46:34.320 --> 0:46:39.080
<v Speaker 1>because it's not This is not a a hard luck

0:46:39.160 --> 0:46:41.879
<v Speaker 1>kind of town. This is a university town. I'm sure

0:46:41.920 --> 0:46:44.800
<v Speaker 1>there are there's a community that could support this course

0:46:45.239 --> 0:46:48.000
<v Speaker 1>in its in its recovery. But as it is very

0:46:48.040 --> 0:46:50.880
<v Speaker 1>fun to play, I didn't mind anything about the kind

0:46:50.920 --> 0:46:53.840
<v Speaker 1>of shabby conditioning of it, but I could see where

0:46:53.960 --> 0:46:58.360
<v Speaker 1>it would be hard for the course to control what

0:46:58.560 --> 0:47:00.040
<v Speaker 1>was going on, especially in some of the.

0:47:03.520 --> 0:47:09.640
<v Speaker 2>All right, one another question, sure, best golf course, And

0:47:09.680 --> 0:47:12.439
<v Speaker 2>then the second part is which course would you play

0:47:12.480 --> 0:47:14.800
<v Speaker 2>the most if you were if it was near you

0:47:15.320 --> 0:47:18.560
<v Speaker 2>could take any of them, put them right in your backyard. Effectively.

0:47:20.080 --> 0:47:23.080
<v Speaker 1>Best golf course is Portland Country Club. I mentioned that before,

0:47:23.760 --> 0:47:28.279
<v Speaker 1>another Donald Ross design. This one extremely well taken care of,

0:47:28.360 --> 0:47:30.600
<v Speaker 1>but well taken care of in a way that I

0:47:30.680 --> 0:47:34.960
<v Speaker 1>completely approve of. Ron Pritchard and Tyler Ray have been

0:47:34.960 --> 0:47:38.520
<v Speaker 1>doing historical work there for about the past decade and

0:47:38.600 --> 0:47:42.359
<v Speaker 1>they have done an absolutely terrific job. This course still

0:47:42.400 --> 0:47:45.600
<v Speaker 1>feels old. They did not rebuild the greens. The greens

0:47:45.719 --> 0:47:48.880
<v Speaker 1>are what they have always been and what they should be,

0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:52.640
<v Speaker 1>and it is a wonderful, wonderful set of Donald Ross greens,

0:47:52.640 --> 0:47:54.840
<v Speaker 1>one of the best set of Donald Ross greens I

0:47:54.920 --> 0:48:00.000
<v Speaker 1>think I've seen on a very beautiful seaside piece of land.

0:48:00.000 --> 0:48:03.280
<v Speaker 1>And there are kind of two main areas of this course.

0:48:03.440 --> 0:48:07.680
<v Speaker 1>One is by the bay, Casco Bay, and the other

0:48:08.000 --> 0:48:11.360
<v Speaker 1>is kind of back in the woods, and both pieces

0:48:11.400 --> 0:48:13.879
<v Speaker 1>of land have something going for them. There's good land

0:48:13.960 --> 0:48:17.160
<v Speaker 1>movement throughout. The routing is pitch perfect, a lot of

0:48:17.160 --> 0:48:20.160
<v Speaker 1>great golf holes. This is a strong, strong golf course.

0:48:20.200 --> 0:48:21.759
<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of people consider it the best

0:48:21.760 --> 0:48:25.840
<v Speaker 1>course in Maine, and I can see where that assessment

0:48:25.880 --> 0:48:29.359
<v Speaker 1>comes from. What course would I play? The most, I'd

0:48:29.360 --> 0:48:32.719
<v Speaker 1>probably go with courses that I've mentioned already. Grindstone Neck

0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:35.839
<v Speaker 1>would be one that I could play every day and

0:48:36.080 --> 0:48:41.040
<v Speaker 1>be very happy about. Simple seaside golf, absolutely beautiful, so

0:48:41.280 --> 0:48:45.719
<v Speaker 1>interesting and natural. Keebo Valley is I'd love to have

0:48:45.800 --> 0:48:48.160
<v Speaker 1>Keebo Valley as my local course. I can't believe the

0:48:48.239 --> 0:48:50.319
<v Speaker 1>luck of people who live in bar Harbor a year

0:48:50.400 --> 0:48:53.080
<v Speaker 1>round and just get to play that golf course North Haven.

0:48:53.280 --> 0:48:56.600
<v Speaker 1>As I've already mentioned, I adore. The one that I

0:48:56.640 --> 0:48:59.600
<v Speaker 1>haven't mentioned though, that would be a great candidate for

0:48:59.640 --> 0:49:03.960
<v Speaker 1>playing every day is mcgunta Cook Golf Club. One of

0:49:03.960 --> 0:49:06.719
<v Speaker 1>the craziest courses I've ever seen. Andy Well was.

0:49:06.680 --> 0:49:07.520
<v Speaker 2>Crazy about it.

0:49:09.440 --> 0:49:13.040
<v Speaker 1>Well. I don't know a lot about its architectural history.

0:49:13.080 --> 0:49:18.120
<v Speaker 1>It seems like it was designed primarily by a greenkeeper

0:49:18.440 --> 0:49:23.000
<v Speaker 1>initially in the early early nineteen hundreds, and then a

0:49:23.160 --> 0:49:27.279
<v Speaker 1>landscape architect completed the course. I believe it's a nine

0:49:27.320 --> 0:49:31.280
<v Speaker 1>hole course. Private club completed the course in the early

0:49:31.400 --> 0:49:35.520
<v Speaker 1>nineteen tens a landscape architect whose name I have not

0:49:36.160 --> 0:49:41.680
<v Speaker 1>seen before. And so this golf course feels as though

0:49:42.600 --> 0:49:45.080
<v Speaker 1>and this is a compliment, feels as though it was

0:49:45.080 --> 0:49:49.279
<v Speaker 1>designed by somebody who doesn't know anything about golf. That's

0:49:49.280 --> 0:49:54.879
<v Speaker 1>a compliment because it is so utterly distinctive. I've never

0:49:54.920 --> 0:49:59.399
<v Speaker 1>seen anything like it. The most obvious place to go

0:49:59.560 --> 0:50:03.240
<v Speaker 1>in try to portray how unique this golf course is

0:50:03.239 --> 0:50:08.120
<v Speaker 1>is the three holes number four, number seven, number eight

0:50:08.760 --> 0:50:13.440
<v Speaker 1>that have greens that are literally set behind or set

0:50:13.480 --> 0:50:20.200
<v Speaker 1>on massive rocky ledges or formations. The fourth hole is

0:50:20.200 --> 0:50:23.080
<v Speaker 1>a short part three where what you see from the

0:50:23.120 --> 0:50:27.760
<v Speaker 1>tee is a big rock formation coming out of the ground.

0:50:28.360 --> 0:50:31.360
<v Speaker 1>The green is on the other side of it, completely invisible.

0:50:31.760 --> 0:50:34.480
<v Speaker 1>This is about one hundred yard hole. That's what the

0:50:34.520 --> 0:50:38.680
<v Speaker 1>hole is. The eighth hole might be the wildest golf

0:50:38.719 --> 0:50:45.040
<v Speaker 1>hole I've seen ever. Maybe the green is literally perched

0:50:45.080 --> 0:50:49.280
<v Speaker 1>on top of a forty foot high pile of rocks,

0:50:50.200 --> 0:50:53.759
<v Speaker 1>just sitting there on top of a huge pile of

0:50:53.880 --> 0:50:56.240
<v Speaker 1>rocks coming out of the ground. I think it's natural.

0:50:56.280 --> 0:50:58.480
<v Speaker 1>I think I don't think they just pushed a bunch

0:50:58.480 --> 0:51:02.239
<v Speaker 1>of rocks together. So it's that kind of course. Just

0:51:02.680 --> 0:51:04.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, you could say it's a Victorian architecture in

0:51:04.920 --> 0:51:07.600
<v Speaker 1>the sense that there are barriers between the approach zone

0:51:07.680 --> 0:51:10.959
<v Speaker 1>and the green. This is something that golf architects would

0:51:10.960 --> 0:51:14.440
<v Speaker 1>sometimes do in the era before the Golden Age, this

0:51:14.560 --> 0:51:18.080
<v Speaker 1>was considered an interesting and fun way to challenge people's

0:51:18.160 --> 0:51:23.319
<v Speaker 1>golfing abilities to have these carries. But talk about a

0:51:23.360 --> 0:51:27.040
<v Speaker 1>course that uses what it's got. That property has rocks.

0:51:27.600 --> 0:51:31.880
<v Speaker 1>This golf course really emphasizes that the rocks are the hazard.

0:51:32.280 --> 0:51:34.719
<v Speaker 1>There's one bunker on the entire course and it's on

0:51:34.760 --> 0:51:37.319
<v Speaker 1>the ninth hole, and it's actually I think they could

0:51:37.320 --> 0:51:40.080
<v Speaker 1>probably get rid of it. So that's what this course is.

0:51:40.239 --> 0:51:44.920
<v Speaker 1>It uses the rocks on its property and it's wild.

0:51:44.640 --> 0:51:48.719
<v Speaker 1>I don't I don't even know how to begin describing

0:51:48.880 --> 0:51:51.960
<v Speaker 1>what this architectural philosophy is, because I think it's one of.

0:51:51.880 --> 0:51:54.719
<v Speaker 2>One that's amazing.

0:51:56.480 --> 0:51:56.839
<v Speaker 1>All Right.

0:51:57.200 --> 0:51:59.719
<v Speaker 2>So we've talked a lot about this trip, a lot

0:51:59.719 --> 0:52:04.239
<v Speaker 2>of the What were a couple courses that you that

0:52:04.320 --> 0:52:06.120
<v Speaker 2>you missed that you want to do the next time

0:52:06.120 --> 0:52:06.880
<v Speaker 2>you go to Maine.

0:52:08.760 --> 0:52:11.080
<v Speaker 1>Well, I should. I haven't talked about I didn't talk

0:52:11.120 --> 0:52:13.239
<v Speaker 1>about Poland Spring, which is the last golf course that

0:52:13.280 --> 0:52:16.200
<v Speaker 1>I saw. Also a very worthy, beautiful golf course with

0:52:16.360 --> 0:52:20.359
<v Speaker 1>views of the bodies of water where they drew the

0:52:20.440 --> 0:52:24.320
<v Speaker 1>Poland Spring water from. You know, Poland Spring water you

0:52:24.360 --> 0:52:27.040
<v Speaker 1>ever had poland spring water. Yeah, they sell this all

0:52:27.040 --> 0:52:30.080
<v Speaker 1>over Maine and it's a main company. And this golf

0:52:30.120 --> 0:52:33.200
<v Speaker 1>course is basically on a mountain above this valley. It's

0:52:33.239 --> 0:52:34.840
<v Speaker 1>really beautiful and there are a couple of greens that

0:52:34.840 --> 0:52:38.560
<v Speaker 1>were designed by Walter Travis. I think they've been softened

0:52:38.600 --> 0:52:41.799
<v Speaker 1>over time. But it's funny you go around this golf course,

0:52:41.840 --> 0:52:44.839
<v Speaker 1>you can immediately tell which greens Walter Travis built because

0:52:44.880 --> 0:52:47.520
<v Speaker 1>it's so completely obvious. So that was a really fun

0:52:47.560 --> 0:52:49.880
<v Speaker 1>experience to see that golf course as well. Also a

0:52:50.000 --> 0:52:54.799
<v Speaker 1>very accessible course, affordable green fee on a resort that's

0:52:54.840 --> 0:52:57.440
<v Speaker 1>been there since the late seventeen hundreds. I wish I

0:52:57.440 --> 0:53:00.480
<v Speaker 1>had more time to explore the resort campus. But it's

0:53:00.480 --> 0:53:02.719
<v Speaker 1>a kind of a wild place. Looks like it may

0:53:02.800 --> 0:53:05.000
<v Speaker 1>may have been a commune at some point. It feels like,

0:53:05.560 --> 0:53:07.359
<v Speaker 1>you know, the people who stayed there might have had

0:53:07.360 --> 0:53:10.279
<v Speaker 1>some weird religious ideas. Potentially it could be that kind

0:53:10.320 --> 0:53:15.400
<v Speaker 1>of place. So another fascinating place in Maine, about forty

0:53:15.400 --> 0:53:19.240
<v Speaker 1>five minutes outside of Portland. Golf courses that I missed

0:53:19.280 --> 0:53:24.120
<v Speaker 1>were were many. There were many golf courses I missed.

0:53:24.120 --> 0:53:27.160
<v Speaker 1>I just scratched the surface on this trip a couple

0:53:27.160 --> 0:53:31.640
<v Speaker 1>of golf courses that maybe aren't super interested in coverage,

0:53:31.640 --> 0:53:33.799
<v Speaker 1>and I wanted to go see golf courses that I

0:53:33.800 --> 0:53:36.480
<v Speaker 1>could tell people about and that the courses were excited

0:53:36.960 --> 0:53:41.600
<v Speaker 1>to have me tell people about them. But Casting Golf Club,

0:53:41.600 --> 0:53:44.440
<v Speaker 1>Old Willie Park course up in the down East region,

0:53:45.080 --> 0:53:48.800
<v Speaker 1>really cool looking place. Prattsnet Country Club again one of

0:53:48.800 --> 0:53:52.959
<v Speaker 1>those courses that's put up as a potential best course

0:53:53.000 --> 0:53:57.120
<v Speaker 1>in Maine. Candidate Wayne Style's golf course right on the coast.

0:53:57.840 --> 0:54:02.080
<v Speaker 1>Abenaki Golf Club another coastal golf course, a very very

0:54:02.120 --> 0:54:08.240
<v Speaker 1>old vintage that looks really interesting. On the more public

0:54:08.480 --> 0:54:12.360
<v Speaker 1>side of golf courses, I wish I had seen Island

0:54:12.360 --> 0:54:17.480
<v Speaker 1>Country Club, another down East Island golf course that you

0:54:17.520 --> 0:54:19.360
<v Speaker 1>don't have to take a ferry out to it, but

0:54:19.440 --> 0:54:21.560
<v Speaker 1>I really would have loved to see that. There are

0:54:21.560 --> 0:54:24.920
<v Speaker 1>a variety of old clubs in the greater Portland area

0:54:24.920 --> 0:54:27.000
<v Speaker 1>that I didn't get to because I chose not to

0:54:27.040 --> 0:54:30.280
<v Speaker 1>spend as much time in Portland and in the Portland

0:54:30.280 --> 0:54:32.719
<v Speaker 1>area as I could have. But there are many many

0:54:32.800 --> 0:54:36.880
<v Speaker 1>cool club golf courses there that are accessible to the public.

0:54:38.239 --> 0:54:42.000
<v Speaker 1>Riverside Golf courses Portland's municipal Course, and I wish I

0:54:42.000 --> 0:54:43.920
<v Speaker 1>had seen that. I would like to go back and

0:54:44.000 --> 0:54:47.280
<v Speaker 1>see that. I believe it's a Wayne Styles golf course,

0:54:47.320 --> 0:54:51.160
<v Speaker 1>and it is. It's the local muni. And so lots

0:54:51.160 --> 0:54:53.799
<v Speaker 1>of lots of courses that I wish I had seen.

0:54:54.200 --> 0:54:57.040
<v Speaker 1>Those are just a couple that maybe top the list.

0:54:57.400 --> 0:55:00.360
<v Speaker 1>I didn't explore much inland Maine golf. You know, the

0:55:00.520 --> 0:55:03.840
<v Speaker 1>farthest Inland I went was Panabscott Valley and then Poland Spring,

0:55:04.280 --> 0:55:08.759
<v Speaker 1>and so there were many opportunities for interesting golf in

0:55:08.880 --> 0:55:13.200
<v Speaker 1>the more mountainous and forested parts of Maine. You could

0:55:13.280 --> 0:55:16.719
<v Speaker 1>spend plenty of time exploring those courses as well. And

0:55:16.760 --> 0:55:20.160
<v Speaker 1>that's the thing about Maine golf. I'd still to this day,

0:55:21.160 --> 0:55:24.640
<v Speaker 1>I occasionally run across the name of a course that

0:55:24.760 --> 0:55:29.319
<v Speaker 1>looks really interesting that wasn't on my list and is

0:55:29.400 --> 0:55:31.879
<v Speaker 1>just in a random little town in Maine and has

0:55:32.000 --> 0:55:35.319
<v Speaker 1>nine holes and it's designed apparently by Alex Finley or

0:55:35.320 --> 0:55:37.719
<v Speaker 1>something like that, And I'd like to go see that

0:55:37.760 --> 0:55:40.440
<v Speaker 1>golf course, but I'd have to spend a lot longer

0:55:40.480 --> 0:55:42.480
<v Speaker 1>in Maine than I actually.

0:55:42.880 --> 0:55:45.560
<v Speaker 2>You got to move from one Portland to the other Portland.

0:55:46.480 --> 0:55:48.720
<v Speaker 1>Now, that would be a story. The Portland to Portland

0:55:48.760 --> 0:55:50.879
<v Speaker 1>flight is one thing, but the Portland to Portland move

0:55:51.760 --> 0:55:53.480
<v Speaker 1>would be That would be a book.

0:55:54.719 --> 0:55:57.520
<v Speaker 2>All right, Garrett, You're gonna have a lot more about

0:55:57.600 --> 0:56:03.080
<v Speaker 2>this trip on on the website, our website, the Frida

0:56:03.080 --> 0:56:08.160
<v Speaker 2>Egg dot com, as well as in CLUBTFE and I'm

0:56:08.200 --> 0:56:12.279
<v Speaker 2>assuming on socials. So looking forward to seeing more and

0:56:12.320 --> 0:56:15.960
<v Speaker 2>more seeing some of the visuals. And thank you for

0:56:16.239 --> 0:56:20.320
<v Speaker 2>coming on to tell everybody about a great value trip

0:56:20.400 --> 0:56:22.160
<v Speaker 2>that very few people think about.

0:56:22.880 --> 0:56:26.399
<v Speaker 1>I hope people enjoyed hearing about this. Let us know

0:56:26.000 --> 0:56:29.000
<v Speaker 1>if you enjoy this kind of episode. Andy did one

0:56:29.120 --> 0:56:33.880
<v Speaker 1>recently with Matt about his trip to Nebraska, which sounds wild.

0:56:34.400 --> 0:56:35.919
<v Speaker 1>There was a point at which I was thinking about

0:56:35.960 --> 0:56:37.600
<v Speaker 1>going with Matt on that trip, but I'm kind of

0:56:37.600 --> 0:56:42.120
<v Speaker 1>glad I didn't, because only a man in his mid

0:56:42.200 --> 0:56:45.040
<v Speaker 1>twenties as Matt is could have survived the amount of

0:56:45.320 --> 0:56:47.560
<v Speaker 1>golf that he that he played and saw.

0:56:48.160 --> 0:56:48.680
<v Speaker 2>Packed it in.

0:56:49.239 --> 0:56:51.960
<v Speaker 1>He really backed it in, but obviously he saw a

0:56:52.000 --> 0:56:53.880
<v Speaker 1>lot of amazing stuff and it was great to hear

0:56:53.920 --> 0:56:56.520
<v Speaker 1>about it from my perspective. But if you like this

0:56:56.600 --> 0:56:58.960
<v Speaker 1>kind of episode where we kind of do a portrait

0:56:59.160 --> 0:57:04.120
<v Speaker 1>of a region of golf, then let us know, give

0:57:04.200 --> 0:57:06.080
<v Speaker 1>us a shout and say if you like this kind

0:57:06.080 --> 0:57:08.960
<v Speaker 1>of episode, because obviously we enjoyed doing them. This is

0:57:09.000 --> 0:57:13.240
<v Speaker 1>the kind of golf that we love playing and talking about,

0:57:13.760 --> 0:57:15.719
<v Speaker 1>and we hope that everybody out there likes it.

0:57:15.680 --> 0:57:31.320
<v Speaker 2>Too, all right, thanks Garrett. Today's episode was edited and

0:57:31.360 --> 0:57:35.120
<v Speaker 2>produced by PJ Clark. Big thanks to PJ. As I

0:57:35.240 --> 0:57:38.600
<v Speaker 2>mentioned at the end of the podcast, there a lot

0:57:38.720 --> 0:57:42.360
<v Speaker 2>more details about this trip will happen in Club TFF.

0:57:42.840 --> 0:57:46.040
<v Speaker 2>This is our membership. This is a place that we

0:57:46.160 --> 0:57:48.720
<v Speaker 2>put a lot of time in producing content and we

0:57:48.800 --> 0:57:52.000
<v Speaker 2>think if you enjoyed this podcast, you probably enjoy Club TFF.

0:57:52.440 --> 0:57:55.240
<v Speaker 2>It's one hundred and twenty dollars for the year we

0:57:55.440 --> 0:58:00.120
<v Speaker 2>are doing We're attempting to do a lot of things

0:58:00.160 --> 0:58:04.040
<v Speaker 2>in the next year that really add value to this membership.

0:58:04.120 --> 0:58:06.920
<v Speaker 2>So sign up. It's one hundred and twenty for the

0:58:07.000 --> 0:58:09.760
<v Speaker 2>year it's and you can sign up at the Frida

0:58:09.760 --> 0:58:13.840
<v Speaker 2>egg dot com slash membership and it gets you all

0:58:13.880 --> 0:58:16.960
<v Speaker 2>the access to all of our the content we've produced

0:58:16.960 --> 0:58:19.080
<v Speaker 2>in there for the last two years that for the

0:58:19.080 --> 0:58:22.880
<v Speaker 2>most part is evergreen, So there's a lot of stuff

0:58:22.880 --> 0:58:25.360
<v Speaker 2>to explore in that membership, and thank you guys for

0:58:25.440 --> 0:58:29.720
<v Speaker 2>listening to the latest episode and all the support of

0:58:29.800 --> 0:58:32.480
<v Speaker 2>the podcast. We'll be back next week with a couple

0:58:32.520 --> 0:58:34.560
<v Speaker 2>of new episodes. Thanks again,