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Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports show where we

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Speaker 1: explore the big money issues in the world of sports.

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Speaker 1: I'm Scarlett fou We've got Next in Sports, which is

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Speaker 1: a Bloomberg Originals program that really takes what's happening in

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Speaker 1: sports and looks at what's around the corner. Oftentimes it's

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Speaker 1: innovations on existing sports and pastimes, and what we aim

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Speaker 1: to do is take a look at where things are headed.

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Speaker 1: And Jason Kelly and Vanessa Prodomo were fixated on women's

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Speaker 1: soccer and really they explore why the NWSL is having

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Speaker 1: a moment right now? Vanessa, I really liked what you said,

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Speaker 1: which is that women's soccer has its best and maybe

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Speaker 1: last chance to fulfill its potential right now. Why is

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Speaker 1: it having such a big moment right now?

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Speaker 2: I think that, you know, we can look at all

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Speaker 2: of what has happened with the US woes national team

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Speaker 2: finally getting equal pay, the fight that they had for

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Speaker 2: so long, But when you think about how far they've come,

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Speaker 2: how popular they always have been. Nineteen ninety nine World Cup,

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Speaker 2: we still talk about it. It's been twenty four years

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Speaker 2: and that's still one of the most well known, Like winning,

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Speaker 2: like championships in the history of the US I feel like, so,

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Speaker 2: I think that right now the women are back, they're

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Speaker 2: trying to win their third title in a row. But

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Speaker 2: it's actually really interesting. It's gonna be the most competitive

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Speaker 2: World Cup of all time. Other countries are finally catching up.

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Speaker 2: They're right on that level. It's going to be really intense.

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Speaker 2: But right now you have the Women's World Cup and

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Speaker 2: then you have the NWSL growing faster than any other

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Speaker 2: league in in North America right.

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Speaker 1: Now, the NWSL National Women's Soccer League. This is what

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize until I saw the video, is that

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Speaker 1: the NWSL marks the third effort to build a successful

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Speaker 1: professional women's soccer league. There are two previous versions that,

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Speaker 1: for different reasons, kind of collapsed, and in fact NWSL

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Speaker 1: itself almost didn't get past the latest scandals, which were

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one. Talk us through what happened there

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Speaker 1: and how that remains something that people are really mindful

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Speaker 1: of as they continue building out the league.

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Speaker 3: Now, yeah, I mean, this was a fascinating one, I

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Speaker 3: think because it it will help set a really important

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Speaker 3: tone for what happens next. I think in women's sports,

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Speaker 3: full stop, you know, we talked about Athletes Unlimited in

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Speaker 3: an earlier episode. You know, we've talked a lot about

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Speaker 3: the WNBA. You know, women's soccer. Is that probably the

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Speaker 3: pre eminent women's sport in the country, in part because

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Speaker 3: of the success of the national team, But then when

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Speaker 3: you go all the way down to it's the most

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Speaker 3: popular participant sport for young girls and young women, and

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Speaker 3: at least from my perspective, and VP will I'm sure

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Speaker 3: correct me if I'm wrong. I mean, part of this

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Speaker 3: has just been a lack of commitment and a lack

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Speaker 3: of investment. And you know, essentially both of those previous

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Speaker 3: efforts failed, each of them failed after three years, well

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Speaker 3: three years editorializing a little bit is a ridiculous amount

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Speaker 3: of time. Just be like, yeah, it's not gonna work.

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Speaker 3: I mean, especially when you go back the history of

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Speaker 3: the NBA, you go back to the history of the NFL,

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Speaker 3: you go back to the history of Major League Baseball,

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Speaker 3: Like these were leagues that took decades to get going,

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Speaker 3: and you had investors and owners who were willing to

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Speaker 3: stick with it. The hope is, and we can talk

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Speaker 3: about a lot of those reasons, the hope is that

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Speaker 3: this time will be different because they're real people putting

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Speaker 3: real money behind it and making a true sort of

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Speaker 3: business case, an investment case for it. But I mean

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Speaker 3: what it's really I think the reason it's failed before

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Speaker 3: is it's been a little bit of an afterthought for

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Speaker 3: the people who about I don't know what you think

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Speaker 3: it's it's.

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Speaker 2: Been given up on, like you said, Jason. And so

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Speaker 2: for the first two. The first one was built right

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Speaker 2: after the nineteen ninety World Cup. They were like me

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Speaker 2: and ham Brandy Chestain, and let's get them in front

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Speaker 2: of people. They just played in front of ninety thousand

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Speaker 2: people at the Rose Bowl, so let's get them in

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Speaker 2: front of people. And they actually did give them a

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Speaker 2: decent amount of money. It started with forty million dollars

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Speaker 2: in the WUSA, it was called. And they tried. But

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Speaker 2: what they didn't I don't know exactly what happened, but

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Speaker 2: they burned through money instantaneously.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I think they just tried to emulate what was already

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Speaker 2: happening on in men's sports. But you can't do that

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Speaker 2: in the beginning. Yeah, So they burned through all the

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Speaker 2: money and they said, we're not going to give you

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Speaker 2: any more. So they folded after three years, and then

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Speaker 2: they tried again, and this time they were like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: we're not going to burn through the money, We're just

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Speaker 2: not going to give you any So they didn't give

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Speaker 2: them any money, and then the facilities nowhere to play.

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Speaker 2: It was not a tenable Yeah, the WPS was. It

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Speaker 2: was not somewhere that I think a lot of it

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Speaker 2: was basically like still playing semi pro, right.

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Speaker 3: Okay, and meanwhile you have I mean, and what's so

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Speaker 3: fascinating to me is, meanwhile you have literally the best

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Speaker 3: team in the world. You know you have, and and

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Speaker 3: so one of the fascinating things to me about this

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Speaker 3: I think VP as well. It is like the national

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Speaker 3: team and the club team. It's like reverse from almost

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Speaker 3: any other sport, you know. So if you think about

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Speaker 3: the dream team, well, like the dream team national team

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Speaker 3: is the bubbled.

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Speaker 1: Up the best of the best, the best of the best.

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Speaker 3: In the domestic league. Yeah, this is where we had

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Speaker 3: the best of the best. We have the best of best.

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Speaker 3: We'll see this current World Cup goes because, as VP said,

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Speaker 3: it's very competitive, but there's no place for them to

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Speaker 3: There has been no sustainable place for them to play,

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Speaker 3: and now it seems like.

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Speaker 2: There is yeah, And so when the otherly folded. It

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Speaker 2: was from two thousand and nine to twenty twelve that

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Speaker 2: was the WPS and it folded right as the women

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Speaker 2: they were finalists in the World Cup and then they

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Speaker 2: won the Olympics. So it was all this time it

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Speaker 2: was like, we can't let it fail again without creating

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Speaker 2: because the popularity had gone so far back up. So

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Speaker 2: the NWSL started in twenty thirteen, and they built it

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Speaker 2: in a way that was it was built for sustainability.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't built for profit, It wasn't built for anything

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Speaker 2: else other than.

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Speaker 1: We need this to survive. How do we get it

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Speaker 1: to survive?

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Speaker 2: And then that's where you go back to all the

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Speaker 2: scandal that came out recently basically happened because this league

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Speaker 2: was built to sustain itself. It wasn't built for the players.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't built with player safety in mind, it wasn't

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Speaker 2: built in the way that they had all of these

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Speaker 2: checks and balances.

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Speaker 1: So anytime something bad happened, they're like, we got we

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Speaker 1: just got to pull through this. We got to push

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Speaker 1: through this regardless, bulldoze over it, because we need to survive.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to be like the other two leagues

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Speaker 1: that folded, and it.

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Speaker 3: Was I mean, you alluded to this earlier scar. I

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Speaker 3: mean there was a moment I mean, VP and I

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Speaker 3: were talking about this this morning that, you know, when

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Speaker 3: this scandal came out, and you know, we don't need

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Speaker 3: to go into the whole history, and a lot of

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Speaker 3: people listening to this will be familiar with it, but

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Speaker 3: I mean, it is a horrific scandal that involves sexual

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Speaker 3: abuse and sexual coercion and emotional abuse by coaches, and

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Speaker 3: five of the ten head coaches who were in the

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Speaker 3: league at the time and being fired or resigning, so

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Speaker 3: half the coaches. So this is the state that it

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Speaker 3: was in. And what I think is so remarkable is that,

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Speaker 3: you know, there's a new commissioner, woman named Jessica Berman,

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Speaker 3: who came through the NHL actually and had been the

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Speaker 3: deputy commissioner of the National Lacrosse League. She came in

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Speaker 3: and essentially just kind of level set everything. I've actually

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Speaker 3: spent a lot of time with her. She's going to

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Speaker 3: be featured on an upcoming episode of our another series,

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Speaker 3: Power Players, And it's a remarkable story of both like

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Speaker 3: resilience and turnaround, but Also, I think this like maybe

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Speaker 3: the best evidence we had that this may be an

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Speaker 3: unstoppable force, because even with like one of the most

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Speaker 3: massive scandals, this is a scandal that should have taken

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Speaker 3: it down. And in fact, a number of players, including

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Speaker 3: Meghan Rappino Mega Roppino very famously tweeted let it burn,

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Speaker 3: like let basically like start over. Yeah, and instead they

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Speaker 3: were able to sort of sort of rebuild. And now

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Speaker 3: they're some hostology where it's actually expanding.

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Speaker 1: Right and Jessica Berman spearheaded expansion to fourteen teams games.

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Speaker 1: The most recent one is Bay Football Club, which is basically,

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Speaker 1: you know, the San Francisco Bay area. What's different about

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Speaker 1: BFC is that for the first time, it's being backed

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Speaker 1: by institutional investors, a private equity firm. Jason, you cover

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Speaker 1: private equity, You've been covering it for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Isn't there some concern that private equity investors may not

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Speaker 1: be the most aligned when it comes to the good

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Speaker 1: of the sport because they're always keeping an eye on

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Speaker 1: the bottom line.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, I mean, this is the question right now.

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Speaker 3: And as you say, you know, this is the first

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Speaker 3: this is the first time that an institutional investor will

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Speaker 3: be the majority owner of any sports team in the

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Speaker 3: United States, any at all, at all, full stop. And

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Speaker 3: so sixth Street is the firm, you know. I touk

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Speaker 3: Alan Waxman is featured in this episode. He's the co

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Speaker 3: founder and CEO of Sixth Street. There are a number

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Speaker 3: of arguments that he makes, or a number of things

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Speaker 3: that he says about that. First of all, unlike a

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Speaker 3: lot of private ACA firms which are looking to sort

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Speaker 3: of cash out within five maybe ten years, they have

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Speaker 3: set this up so it's a long term investment twenty

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Speaker 3: five years or more potentially. And I think the other

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Speaker 3: interesting thing, you know, he sort of turns it around

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Speaker 3: and basically says, we're growth investors. We're we are going

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Speaker 3: to invest heavily in this. This isn't a leveraged buyout.

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Speaker 3: You know, they put up the cash. And one of

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Speaker 3: the things I find interesting is the franchise fee, which

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Speaker 3: we can talk about the growth there, but they paid

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Speaker 3: fifty three million dollars for the franchise fee. But overall

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Speaker 3: they're investing one hundred and twenty five million dollars and

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Speaker 3: that's real money that's being invested. And I think it's

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Speaker 3: notable that He's not the only you know, big time

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Speaker 3: investor or someone with investment background. I mean, what's happened

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Speaker 3: in Kansas City, which Vanessa went to see, I think

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Speaker 3: is another really interesting manifestation of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I talked to the owners of the Kansas City

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Speaker 2: Current and it's a husband and wife and you and

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Speaker 2: Chris Long, and they are as well, private equity invest

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Speaker 2: you know. They I think it's twenty one billion dollars

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Speaker 2: their fund. But they are still there every day, you know,

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Speaker 2: for the k C Current, and I think they look

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Speaker 2: at it a different way in the way that they

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Speaker 2: look at it as an investment into the city itself.

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Speaker 2: They are building the first ever stadium built for a

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Speaker 2: women's soccer team. It holds about eleven thousand, five.

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Speaker 3: Hundred people think a women's sports team.

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Speaker 2: Women's sports team, Yeah, which is by.

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Speaker 3: The way, crazy crazy. I mean, that's insane that this

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Speaker 3: is the first time that's happening.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, sorry, but it's gonna be built right in

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Speaker 2: downtown Kansas City, which they don't have any other stadiums downtown.

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Speaker 2: You know, the Chiefs play far away, and so does

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Speaker 2: the MLST team. So I think that when you're looking

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Speaker 2: they look at it in different ways. When they are

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Speaker 2: starting this team and they rewanted to buy, and they

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Speaker 2: wanted to buy this case had a team before. They

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Speaker 2: wanted to buy this team, bring it back here, they said.

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Speaker 2: When they were starting it, a lot of people called

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Speaker 2: it a charity investment. And the people would like say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we'll invest, but it's oh, it's like a real good thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they'll they will give you my from our found from.

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Speaker 1: Our philanthropy, you know.

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Speaker 2: And so they said, in no way that you know,

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Speaker 2: this is something that's going to make us money. It's

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Speaker 2: going to make a lot of money. When you invest

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Speaker 2: in women, when you invest in them as a entity,

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Speaker 2: as a business, then you are actually going to make it,

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Speaker 2: you know. So the stadium, their building is about one

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Speaker 2: hundred and twenty million dollars. They built an eighteen million

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Speaker 2: dollar training facility. So in their eyes, it's when you

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Speaker 2: professionalize something, is when you're actually going to make money

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Speaker 2: on it. And you can't just like have it at

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Speaker 2: a baseline.

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Speaker 1: And think it's going to be perfectly fine. You can't

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Speaker 1: throw a couple million be like, okay that we've done

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Speaker 1: a good deal.

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Speaker 2: We've done our good deed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the.

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Speaker 3: Interesting thing, you know, talking to Alan Waxman at who's

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Speaker 3: a you know, very serious investor, you know, sixty plus

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Speaker 3: billion dollars in assets under management for six Street. It

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Speaker 3: was a he you know, had a big job at

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Speaker 3: Goldman Sachs. Then Sixth Street was actually initially a partnership

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Speaker 3: with TVG. So this guy really understands investment. So, I

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Speaker 3: mean a couple of things. I mean one is so

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Speaker 3: they went through, as you can appreciate, scar like the

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Speaker 3: entire due diligence process. They also did all of this

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Speaker 3: you know analysis that said this is exactly the type

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Speaker 3: of opportunity we look for in a market where something

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Speaker 3: is dramatically and empirically undervalue, Like we can get in

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Speaker 3: at this level and and do something you know, and

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Speaker 3: maybe you know, outsized profits. I think the other really

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Speaker 3: interesting thing that that is an answer to the private

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Speaker 3: equity piece is the players who were involved as owners,

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Speaker 3: you know, which are some of the people that that

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Speaker 3: VP alluded to earlier were involved in the ninety ninet team.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Ali Wagner and Leslie Osbourne, Daniel Slayton and

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Speaker 2: Bernie Chestain, the iconic Bridie Chesstain rippring your shirt off

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Speaker 2: through the PK in ninety nine. You know, I think

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Speaker 2: that one of the things that Alan talks about is,

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Speaker 2: you know, they're putting up the money, they believe in it,

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Speaker 2: but they also have the foundation of these four founders

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Speaker 2: who are women's you know, they built this, right, they're

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Speaker 2: the leaders, they're women's soccer players. They built this so

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Speaker 2: they know exactly how it should run. They know what

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Speaker 2: they would have wanted when they were playing. So it's

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Speaker 2: not just private equity throwing money at something hoping they're

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Speaker 2: going to make money. It's like Jason said, all of

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Speaker 2: the due diligence and then you have the players say

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Speaker 2: on it too, So they're going to make a good team,

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Speaker 2: a good product for the fans and for the players.

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Speaker 3: And it's interesting too. I hadn't really thought about this

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Speaker 3: to We were talking about it, like there are echoes

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Speaker 3: to a previous episode that we did a couple of

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Speaker 3: weeks ago with Athletes Unlimited, where there is there is

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Speaker 3: something you know, and it sounds so ridiculous and obvious

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Speaker 3: to say it, but like there there actually is a

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Speaker 3: really good business case for getting people involved who have

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Speaker 3: played or actually played the game, and so the amount

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Speaker 3: of former player ownership in the NWOSL. Now, part of

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Speaker 3: it is the economics, it's you know, it's lower to

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Speaker 3: get end. But we saw that with Angel City. You

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Speaker 3: know we're seeing it. We saw it with Carly Lloyd

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Speaker 3: at Gotham and clearly we're seeing it with AFC.

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Speaker 1: In a Wait it's a little bit like a leverage buyout.

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Speaker 3: Then yeah, getting the management and senting the management to

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Speaker 3: get involved. But yeah, I mean but having that that

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Speaker 3: input and the you know, kind of the emotional plus

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Speaker 3: the financial commitment I think is a really interesting piece

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Speaker 3: of it.

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Speaker 1: It's like how when Pe gets former retail geniuses to

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Speaker 1: run the firm, to be the operators of the firm

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Speaker 1: that they buy yes.

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Speaker 2: Playbook.

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Speaker 1: I really think what you said was interesting when Essa

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Speaker 1: about women's sports treating it as a business, as an

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Speaker 1: investment as opposed to a charity or a nonprofit, because

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Speaker 1: you could make the argument that that's kind of what

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Speaker 1: doomed the previous two attempts at women's soccer performed.

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Speaker 2: Right. I think that they thought, you know, we need this,

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Speaker 2: we need to do it because of the momentum that happened.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, shouldn't the players have somewhere to play? I guess,

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Speaker 2: you know, And I think that when you talk to

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Speaker 2: a lot of the players, from Julie Foudy, who is

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Speaker 2: a ninety nine er who played on the first ever

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Speaker 2: US wom's national team in nineteen ninety and when you

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Speaker 2: talk to Alex I spoke to Alex Morigan about this,

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Speaker 2: they everyone has the same sentiment of they basically before

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Speaker 2: the NWSL got to this point, it was.

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Speaker 1: You're lucky to have a job.

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Speaker 2: That's what they made them feel like.

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Speaker 1: Just be grateful, Just be grateful to have a job.

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Speaker 2: That's why all of these cases went unreported for so long.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I mean they were reported by but people

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Speaker 2: nothing happened. You know, do you really want to bring

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Speaker 2: down the league that you play for?

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Speaker 1: Don't?

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Speaker 2: Aren't you grateful to have a job? Aren't you grateful

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Speaker 2: to And that was the whole thing of fighting for

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Speaker 2: equal pay for the US women's national team that in

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Speaker 2: ninety nine they weren't even paid, you know. So it's

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Speaker 2: certain things.

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Speaker 1: We have a job, we deserve a job, and we

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Speaker 1: deserve pay.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, and we deserve to feel safe. And I think

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Speaker 2: that that's something that Alex Morian talked to me about

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Speaker 2: the way that Jessica Berman came in was when she

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Speaker 2: flipped everything around. She started talking to the players and

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Speaker 2: started asking them what they needed to feel safe in

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Speaker 2: this league. Was one of the things that was able

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Speaker 2: to make people like her and Meghan Rappino feel comfortable

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Speaker 2: to put their faces back on the top of the league,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: And of course a women's soccer team, the US women's

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Speaker 1: national soccer team is the superstar. I mean, yes, they've

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Speaker 1: done things that the men's team can only dream of.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, totally well and I think that that actually,

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Speaker 3: you know, leads to sort of what happens next, which is,

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Speaker 3: you know, we're in the midst now of the Women's

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Speaker 3: World Cup. It's hyper competitive. The world has sort of

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Speaker 3: caught up in a lot of ways, and so it's

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Speaker 3: a big challenge and opportunity for the National Womens Soccer

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Speaker 3: League to ensure that it remains the best domestic league

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Speaker 3: that all the great players, because that has candidly, you know,

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Speaker 3: to go to the men's side for just a second

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Speaker 3: major league soccer. With the exception of Lionel Messi, you know,

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Speaker 3: coming and even he is sort of in the later

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Speaker 3: stages of his career with all due respect all the

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Speaker 3: great professional soccer vis THELS. They're not the best in

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Speaker 3: the world. Straight up, no one would argue that it's

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Speaker 3: that this is where the best player is.

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Speaker 2: And I think one of the things was that we

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Speaker 2: didn't have anyone on the men's side that played in

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Speaker 2: England or played it for a long time, you know.

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Speaker 2: So having Christian Polistic play over there was huge for

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Speaker 2: the US men's team, you know, but having everyone here

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Speaker 2: for the women is.

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Speaker 3: Right important and so that changes it. And so it'll

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Speaker 3: be interesting to see that's going to be a key

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Speaker 3: differentiator and competitive advantage if they can hold on to

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Speaker 3: it for the NWSL, that the best players in the

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Speaker 3: world continue to come here, because by the way, the

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Speaker 3: women's EPL, you know, Women's La Liga, you know, all

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Speaker 3: those other overseas leagues are looking at what the NWSL

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Speaker 3: is doing and be like, oh yeah, so listen, competition

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Speaker 3: is probably a good thing here, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, guys. Fantastic episode. I've really enjoyed watching this series.

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Speaker 1: I've learned so much out of all the different episodes

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Speaker 1: really quickly. Which is our favorite sport that you covered?

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Speaker 2: Oh well, it's hard for me because I was a

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Speaker 2: women's soccer player, So I feel like I have to

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Speaker 2: say the end.

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Speaker 1: Of closest to your home.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely closest to my arm and I got

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Speaker 2: to meet Alex Worrin, so oh my god.

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Speaker 1: But I do think tag is probably World Chase Tag.

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Speaker 2: Like yeah, World Chase Tag was my favorite sport to

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Speaker 2: learn about and watch because it.

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Speaker 1: Was so cool.

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Speaker 3: I have two very first of all different from from VP,

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Speaker 3: which is why it works. My two favorite work Kabati,

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Speaker 3: just because it was so fun and different and interesting

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Speaker 3: to learn about that and to go the total opsite

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Speaker 3: direction Cornhole. I love Cornhall. I had so much fun.

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Speaker 3: It was like we first came up with the idea

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Speaker 3: of this. I thought, you know, this is this is

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Speaker 3: not real, this is not real, and yet it is.

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Speaker 3: And so that one was really fun and we had

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Speaker 3: a I mean, listen, we had so much fun. At

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Speaker 3: least I did.

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Speaker 1: I think you too, so much fun.

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Speaker 3: It was so much fun to put the series together.

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Speaker 1: So leave me forward to next season, all right. Jason

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Speaker 1: Kelly and Vanessa Perdomo host of Next in Sports, which

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Speaker 1: of course airs Wednesdays, I'm Bloomberg Television at ten pm Eastern.

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Speaker 1: You can also check get Out on YouTube and Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: dot Com the following day and catch up on previous episodes.

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Speaker 1: H