1
00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,480
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

2
00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,560
Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

3
00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:16,239
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm

4
00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,800
Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number four nineteen,

5
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,680
Speaker 1: and today I'm joined by Michael Easter to discuss his

6
00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 1: fascinating new book, The Comfort Crisis, and his surprise and

7
00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:32,600
Speaker 1: case for getting uncomfortable and not coincidentally, how perfectly hunting

8
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:39,640
Speaker 1: fits into this way of living. All right, welcome to

9
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,440
Speaker 1: the Wired to Hunt Podcast, brought to you by First Like. Today,

10
00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,800
Speaker 1: we've got a really interesting show and a little bit

11
00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,400
Speaker 1: different than our usual ones. Were not specifically talking about

12
00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,600
Speaker 1: white tail deer or deer hunting, but we're talking about

13
00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,840
Speaker 1: a book that I recently read that I mean, the

14
00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,560
Speaker 1: whole time I read it, I just kept thinking myself,

15
00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,200
Speaker 1: this is why hunt, this is why I hunt. So

16
00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,800
Speaker 1: much of what's covering this book is is like a

17
00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,680
Speaker 1: master class or or I don't know, a thesis on

18
00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,959
Speaker 1: why folks should pick up hunting. Now. This book is

19
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:21,000
Speaker 1: called The Comfort Crisis Embrace Discomfort to reclaim your wild, happy,

20
00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,800
Speaker 1: healthy self. And Michael Easter, the author of that book,

21
00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,360
Speaker 1: and the guy who we're gonna be talking to on

22
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,600
Speaker 1: the show, went in and just took a fascinating journey

23
00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:36,200
Speaker 1: across the world examining how we as modern Americans and

24
00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,120
Speaker 1: people across the globe have gotten kind of soft. We've

25
00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,240
Speaker 1: gotten too comfortable, and it's taken us away from those

26
00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,880
Speaker 1: core things that made us human, that made us who

27
00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,000
Speaker 1: we are. And a big part of that is all

28
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,240
Speaker 1: this stuff that's wrapped into hunting. And it's just it's

29
00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,720
Speaker 1: so relevant to what we do that I had to

30
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,840
Speaker 1: dive in this one, so we cover all sorts of

31
00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,280
Speaker 1: topics related to shoot. I don't know the value of

32
00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,760
Speaker 1: being bored, the value of taking on horror challenges, pushing yourself,

33
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:08,359
Speaker 1: getting uh not only uncomfortable, but getting bored, getting physically challenged, uh,

34
00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,600
Speaker 1: getting hungry. I mean, as I say all these different things,

35
00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,119
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're thinking, Yep, done that, Yep, done that, Yep,

36
00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,959
Speaker 1: done that. We as hunters are fortunate that we're actually

37
00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,240
Speaker 1: getting to uh live a lot of the stuff that

38
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,360
Speaker 1: he touched on here in the book. But it's really

39
00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,480
Speaker 1: particularly interesting is he not only kind of talked about

40
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,360
Speaker 1: the common sense stuff that I think a lot of

41
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,959
Speaker 1: us think intuitively, but He's actually found research and science

42
00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,840
Speaker 1: and and really solid numbers and data to back up

43
00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,040
Speaker 1: a lot of things I think a lot of us believe.

44
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,520
Speaker 1: Now we can point to a lot of stuff that

45
00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,800
Speaker 1: backs all that up. So I think it's I think

46
00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:44,639
Speaker 1: I should just stop rambling. I think we should get

47
00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,200
Speaker 1: into it. Really interesting conversation. I thoroughly enjoy what Michael

48
00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,119
Speaker 1: had to share with this today, and I highly recommend

49
00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:51,560
Speaker 1: this book. This has been one of the better books

50
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,560
Speaker 1: I've read yet this year. Highly recommend The Comfort Crisis.

51
00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,480
Speaker 1: And I think anyone out there who enjoys the outdoors,

52
00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,840
Speaker 1: who enjoys the hunt, who's into this kind of stuff,

53
00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:01,880
Speaker 1: I think you will really enjoy this book. It's going

54
00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,440
Speaker 1: to give you a great reason to keep doing what

55
00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,400
Speaker 1: you're doing and to encourage others to try it out too. So,

56
00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,079
Speaker 1: without any further ado, let's get into my conversation with

57
00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:16,639
Speaker 1: Michael Easter. All right, I am excited to have on

58
00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,400
Speaker 1: the line here with me, Michael Easter. Michael, welcome the show.

59
00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,040
Speaker 1: All right, Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, I

60
00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,000
Speaker 1: I appreciate you being here. I'm looking forward to this

61
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,400
Speaker 1: one because it is you know, I mentioned this to

62
00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,320
Speaker 1: you just a second ago before we started recording your book,

63
00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:41,480
Speaker 1: The Comfort Crisis puts puts evidence in science and a

64
00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,600
Speaker 1: framework behind a lot of things that I have intuitively

65
00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,560
Speaker 1: believed for a long time. Uh, and that I would

66
00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,800
Speaker 1: tell my wife about, or i'd tell people that I

67
00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,000
Speaker 1: used to work with or something. And now I can

68
00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,160
Speaker 1: just say, hey, read this book and you'll get it.

69
00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,560
Speaker 1: And UM, that's a very handy tool I think that

70
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,240
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have now and for a lot people, because

71
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:03,600
Speaker 1: you know that the subtitle of your book here has

72
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:08,280
Speaker 1: embraced discomfort to reclaim your wild, happy, healthy self, and

73
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,160
Speaker 1: and so much of what you talk about in this book,

74
00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:17,359
Speaker 1: UM just kind of puts words to how I've tried

75
00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,320
Speaker 1: to to live my life in a lot of ways.

76
00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,320
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of folks listening to this

77
00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,800
Speaker 1: podcast have as well. So after I read it, I

78
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,880
Speaker 1: knew my listeners would be really into this one. And

79
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,680
Speaker 1: that's a long window way of saying, Michael, thanks for

80
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:35,320
Speaker 1: being here. And UM, I guess to start before we

81
00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,440
Speaker 1: even get to know you, what's your what's your argument

82
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,680
Speaker 1: with this book? Like, what why did you write this?

83
00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,080
Speaker 1: What's the thesis here? What does the world need to

84
00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:49,400
Speaker 1: know that you're giving them with this book. Yeah, well,

85
00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,559
Speaker 1: first of all, I'm glad you liked it. I'm glad

86
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,560
Speaker 1: I've given you a tool and uh put some science

87
00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,080
Speaker 1: behind these ideas that you know you've had. And I

88
00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,280
Speaker 1: think we all sort of intuitively had, um but kind

89
00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,680
Speaker 1: of in a unique position to look into some of

90
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,040
Speaker 1: the stuff in the book as my background as a

91
00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,320
Speaker 1: health and science journalists. So I'll give you the short

92
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,159
Speaker 1: answer in the long answer the book. The short answer

93
00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,600
Speaker 1: is that in The Comfort Crisis, I investigate basically how

94
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,240
Speaker 1: our modern day comforts and conveniences are linked to a

95
00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,720
Speaker 1: lot of our most pressing problems today, So things like obesity,

96
00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:26,039
Speaker 1: chronic disease, depression, even feeling sort of a lack of

97
00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,120
Speaker 1: meaning like why am I here? Um? And how by

98
00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,960
Speaker 1: stepping outside of our comfort zones in a variety of

99
00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,839
Speaker 1: different ways, we can dramatically improve our overall mental, physical,

100
00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:41,160
Speaker 1: and even spiritual well being. So to investigate this idea,

101
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,000
Speaker 1: I traveled about thirty thousand miles around the world. I

102
00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,840
Speaker 1: met with experts ranging from Harvard researchers and Icelandic geneticist

103
00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,719
Speaker 1: to Buddhist lamas and Special Forces soldiers. And what I

104
00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,279
Speaker 1: think will be interesting to your audiences that I spent

105
00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,360
Speaker 1: thirty three days in the Alaskan back country up in

106
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,279
Speaker 1: the Arctic on a caribou hunt, and that hunt serves

107
00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 1: as the overarching narrative of the book that kind of

108
00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,920
Speaker 1: gets me into each of these discomforts that we've essentially

109
00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:16,000
Speaker 1: removed from our lives that are important for us as

110
00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,640
Speaker 1: human beings in a variety of ways. Yeah. Yeah, and

111
00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,600
Speaker 1: that that through that through line, that narrative of that

112
00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:30,040
Speaker 1: caribou hunt was was fascinating, partly because I think almost

113
00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,640
Speaker 1: anyone who loves wild places loves a good story up

114
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,680
Speaker 1: in Alaska, right, that's the dream, the final front tire

115
00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,080
Speaker 1: for so many of us that want to be uh

116
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,320
Speaker 1: people want to be in those places. And it also

117
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,640
Speaker 1: took me back to some experiences I had up in

118
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,120
Speaker 1: Alaska chasing, chasing cariboo as well. You just got it

119
00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,400
Speaker 1: for a much longer period of time, So I was

120
00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,120
Speaker 1: was jealous of the full month plus you got to

121
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,839
Speaker 1: spend out there, and with a really interesting guy too.

122
00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 1: You you got to spend time with Donnie Vincent, who

123
00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,599
Speaker 1: has been on this podcast a handful of times and

124
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,680
Speaker 1: is well known of than our community, and a great

125
00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,640
Speaker 1: representative of our committees. So you've got a great introduction

126
00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,599
Speaker 1: to it. I did, yeah, And so the kind of

127
00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,120
Speaker 1: let people know how it all came together, I guess

128
00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,880
Speaker 1: is that My background is that I'm a journalist who

129
00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,720
Speaker 1: writes about the science of human health and performance. I

130
00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,320
Speaker 1: have my entire career, so I've worked in I'm a

131
00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,840
Speaker 1: professor at un LV right now, and before that, I

132
00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,920
Speaker 1: worked at Men's Health Magazine. I've written for Outside Magazine,

133
00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,880
Speaker 1: Scientific American, all these kind of places. So background has

134
00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,160
Speaker 1: kind of an investigative journalist. And early on in my

135
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,520
Speaker 1: career I've sort of noticed that anything that improves us

136
00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,760
Speaker 1: usually requires going through some form of discomfort. So for example,

137
00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:44,760
Speaker 1: exercise weight loss. You know, going out in nature is uncomfortable,

138
00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,720
Speaker 1: but we know nature is good for us. And as

139
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,480
Speaker 1: a writer, I'm always sort of drawn to people who

140
00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,240
Speaker 1: live on the edges. And through this work I've done

141
00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,440
Speaker 1: meeting all these different characters working for magazines, I became

142
00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 1: good friends with Donnie, So all your readers are sorry

143
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,560
Speaker 1: at readers, I'm so used to saying that. Because I'm

144
00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:06,280
Speaker 1: a writer, all your listeners will know Donnie. And he

145
00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,600
Speaker 1: invited me to come up on this thirty three day

146
00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,040
Speaker 1: hunt in the Arctic with him, and you know, I

147
00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,760
Speaker 1: had never hunted before. I mean, I've been drug along

148
00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:17,160
Speaker 1: on some hunts when I was a kid, but it

149
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,320
Speaker 1: was mostly just guys tipping back whiskey. And you know,

150
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,360
Speaker 1: I've done some outdoor things, but not really anything this

151
00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,000
Speaker 1: you know, long or or epic, or really embedded myself

152
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:31,520
Speaker 1: in a place that long. And I get up there

153
00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,600
Speaker 1: and it was this completely new experience for me. You know,

154
00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,880
Speaker 1: because of my background, I thought I sort of knew

155
00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:43,480
Speaker 1: h everything about health and hardship, and you know, I

156
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,880
Speaker 1: embedded myself and some of the world's most extreme gym's

157
00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,720
Speaker 1: and kind of done some crazy endurance events and talked

158
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,480
Speaker 1: to all the gurus and researchers, and I got up

159
00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,720
Speaker 1: there and it's just unlike anything I'd ever experienced because

160
00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,840
Speaker 1: I was out of my comfort zone in a variety

161
00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,200
Speaker 1: of ways the entire time. So it's like, you know,

162
00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,960
Speaker 1: these discomforts I faced that things like constantly hungry because

163
00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,280
Speaker 1: you know, we're not packing in a ton of food

164
00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,680
Speaker 1: and we're moving all day. We're carrying everything we need

165
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,800
Speaker 1: on our backs, you know, so it's everything requires effort.

166
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,640
Speaker 1: It's freezing cold up there. So I'm from I live

167
00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,720
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas. Going from Vegas to the Arctic was like,

168
00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,679
Speaker 1: oh my god, Like I was just freezing um exposure

169
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:32,319
Speaker 1: to the weather, even things like being in this insane silence.

170
00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,920
Speaker 1: It's just so different than the world we live in today.

171
00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,480
Speaker 1: And you know, there's also everything is challenging, Like we

172
00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:43,520
Speaker 1: got put in positions where failure could have meant i

173
00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,440
Speaker 1: mean true, true danger, and all this stuff kind of

174
00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,600
Speaker 1: amplified over time. You know. It's like the longer you're

175
00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,520
Speaker 1: out there, the more intense this kind of gets. And

176
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,520
Speaker 1: but anyways, we make it out. It was it was

177
00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,000
Speaker 1: an amazing time. But when I get back to my modern,

178
00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,920
Speaker 1: comfortable life, I'm I mean, I'm totally transformed after going

179
00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,840
Speaker 1: through all these discomforts, I'm like ten pounds lighter, I'm

180
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,080
Speaker 1: fitter than I've ever been, you know. But I think

181
00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,800
Speaker 1: more importantly, it just felt like just the dial on

182
00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,280
Speaker 1: my physical, mental, i mean, even spiritual health and how

183
00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,319
Speaker 1: I saw the world had kind of been moved ten notches.

184
00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,800
Speaker 1: It's kind of like this reset on my life, you know.

185
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,200
Speaker 1: And and having written about health for more than a

186
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,559
Speaker 1: decade and all these topics like this is the thing

187
00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,000
Speaker 1: that moved things the most for me. And it was like,

188
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,160
Speaker 1: what the hell happened up there, you know? And I

189
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,680
Speaker 1: kind of realized I thought back to that observation I

190
00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:43,920
Speaker 1: made about discomfort, and then I kind of saw my

191
00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,520
Speaker 1: modern life since I've been out in the Arctic where

192
00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,360
Speaker 1: things that are hard and everything requires work and effort,

193
00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,600
Speaker 1: and then I look at my life in Vegas and

194
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,080
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, my god, Like humans are so unbelievably

195
00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,480
Speaker 1: comfortable in every single way now, Like we've engineered literally

196
00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,920
Speaker 1: everything in modern life to be easy, to be effortless,

197
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,480
Speaker 1: and to be comfortable. So that goes I mean, think

198
00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,800
Speaker 1: about your daily life now. It's like we live in

199
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,559
Speaker 1: buildings and that our climate control, and we have easy

200
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,080
Speaker 1: access to food. Food is always there. We don't really

201
00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,920
Speaker 1: have to move or work at all to make a living. Um,

202
00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,840
Speaker 1: all these things are great, but they've also taken something

203
00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,680
Speaker 1: away from us, right, So I wanted to know, you know,

204
00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,839
Speaker 1: are there any downsides to all this comfort we live

205
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,960
Speaker 1: in and are there any legitimate science back benefits to

206
00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:36,480
Speaker 1: pushing against comfort and sort of seeking out discomfort. So

207
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:41,560
Speaker 1: that started this big investigation into the science and I

208
00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,880
Speaker 1: traveled around the world to meet all kinds of difference,

209
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,320
Speaker 1: interesting characters who are sort of living on the edges

210
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,800
Speaker 1: and and investigating this idea all in their own unique way.

211
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,720
Speaker 1: So I went to UH, I met researchers at Harvard,

212
00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,440
Speaker 1: I met some doctors at the Mayo Clinic, special Forces

213
00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,200
Speaker 1: soldiers like I'm mentioned, Buddhist leaders and Bhutan I mean, neuroscientists,

214
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,400
Speaker 1: just people all across the board. And I came to

215
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,120
Speaker 1: the conclusion that I stated before that you know, there

216
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,280
Speaker 1: are definite downsides to all the comforts that we live

217
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,959
Speaker 1: in and having to never be challenged in a variety

218
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,720
Speaker 1: of ways. And by getting out our our comfort zones

219
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,640
Speaker 1: in a handful of ways, we can move the dial

220
00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,000
Speaker 1: on things for ourselves and sort of exploring our edges,

221
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,600
Speaker 1: we grow. And you know, some of these ways that

222
00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,560
Speaker 1: you can insert discomfort back into your life or relatively easy,

223
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,640
Speaker 1: and some you have to you have to do something

224
00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,840
Speaker 1: a little more epic, you know, you have to go

225
00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,760
Speaker 1: out and really really push against your edges. So that's

226
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,960
Speaker 1: kind of how I ended up investigating this. That's interesting.

227
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,040
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you whether you had gone

228
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,680
Speaker 1: into that hunt knowing you were writing this book already

229
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,480
Speaker 1: and you were looking at that as this great place

230
00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,840
Speaker 1: to test things or if that hunt, you know, inspired

231
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,760
Speaker 1: you to dive in, so it's interest didn't get that backstory. Um,

232
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,160
Speaker 1: it's funny. So much of of how I talk about

233
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,680
Speaker 1: hunting with you know, my non hunting friends or family

234
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,559
Speaker 1: revolves around some similar things to that which you just described.

235
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,600
Speaker 1: You know, I've I've always thought that hunting is one

236
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,760
Speaker 1: of those most human activities. It presses these buttons that

237
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,120
Speaker 1: are hardwired deep into the essence of of who we

238
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,320
Speaker 1: are and what we are. And you made the point

239
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,480
Speaker 1: in the beginning of your book that, you know, the

240
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,240
Speaker 1: modern conveniences that we enjoy today, all that stuff you

241
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,280
Speaker 1: describe that makes our life so relatively easy in a

242
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,079
Speaker 1: lot of ways, that's only been around a hundred years

243
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,680
Speaker 1: or so. But the species that we are, Homo sapiens,

244
00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,280
Speaker 1: we've been around for two hundred to three hundred thousand years.

245
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,720
Speaker 1: So that means this modern comfort thing we're experiencing now

246
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,559
Speaker 1: is point zero three percent of our time on Earth.

247
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,640
Speaker 1: That's how long we've had to adapt to this new

248
00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,960
Speaker 1: world we're in. The rest of our process of become

249
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,520
Speaker 1: the humans was living a very, very very different lifestyle,

250
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,160
Speaker 1: which is what our bodies are biologically built to do

251
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,439
Speaker 1: and our minds are built to do. We're not doing

252
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,840
Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff anymore. So it makes sense

253
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:16,440
Speaker 1: that that could you know, lead to challenges, lead to issues,

254
00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,720
Speaker 1: and lead to some of us having these desires to

255
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,640
Speaker 1: connect back to that stuff that made us who we are.

256
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,200
Speaker 1: So for me, that that's hunting, and you you point

257
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,160
Speaker 1: out a lot of different ways that you can be

258
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,280
Speaker 1: doing that across the board. Um, But let's talk about

259
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,640
Speaker 1: the downfalls of comforts. This is something that you discussed

260
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:42,800
Speaker 1: quite a bit too. You know, this radical, um left

261
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,400
Speaker 1: turn away from what humans were kind of built to do,

262
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,640
Speaker 1: all this stuff that we now have that's made life

263
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:53,920
Speaker 1: so much easier, uh so less physically stressful in certain ways, etcetera, etcetera.

264
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,880
Speaker 1: What are the what are the symptoms of that that

265
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,600
Speaker 1: we're seeing now, um, that you found as you started

266
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,800
Speaker 1: research in this? Oh man, I mean there are so

267
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,760
Speaker 1: many and it's I kind of frame it like this,

268
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 1: and I sort of hinted at this when I was

269
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,920
Speaker 1: talking initially about the book. But it's like, just stop

270
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,520
Speaker 1: and look, like, look at everything around you. Everything around

271
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,400
Speaker 1: you right now is all it's all been invented within

272
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,920
Speaker 1: a hundred years. Like the stuff that is most influencing

273
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,080
Speaker 1: your life every single day, it's all brand new. So

274
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,440
Speaker 1: even I mean you're probably like sitting and listening to

275
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,080
Speaker 1: this right now, Like chairs aren't that old, or like

276
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,320
Speaker 1: we invented them a couple a few hundred years ago,

277
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 1: you know, climate control, even the shoes on your feet, transportation,

278
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,440
Speaker 1: how we have it now, the food we eat and

279
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,240
Speaker 1: it's availability, your constant distractions, like media, I mean, media

280
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,040
Speaker 1: is only digital media is only about a hundred years old,

281
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,800
Speaker 1: you know. And we involved We evolved in these really

282
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,920
Speaker 1: rough and tumble environments where we didn't have all these

283
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,480
Speaker 1: things that made our lives easier, so we developed these

284
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:02,040
Speaker 1: drives always be comfortable. So this is why, this is

285
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,680
Speaker 1: why we get hungry, right Hunger sucks, and it's basically

286
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,800
Speaker 1: telling you. It's your body telling you, hey, you need

287
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,800
Speaker 1: to go out and get food, and I'm gonna make

288
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,240
Speaker 1: you feel really bad right now, so that when you

289
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,400
Speaker 1: do get food, you'll feel better and then you'll know, hey,

290
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,640
Speaker 1: I need to eat more. Um everything, I mean, movement,

291
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,080
Speaker 1: like having to exercise. The reason that exercise is so

292
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,360
Speaker 1: uncomfortable is because in our past environments there just weren't

293
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,080
Speaker 1: enough resources where it would it never made sense to

294
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,760
Speaker 1: do any sort of extra effort, right because there's just

295
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,560
Speaker 1: not enough food around to burn those extra calories. So

296
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,560
Speaker 1: your body, just our bodies evolved to not want to

297
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:43,200
Speaker 1: do any extra effort. And now in today's society, where

298
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,080
Speaker 1: there's food everywhere, our body is still telling us, hey,

299
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,480
Speaker 1: you should eat more because that keeps you safe, and hey,

300
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,520
Speaker 1: why would just sit around? That's so much better for us,

301
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 1: you know, But that's not the case anymore. So anthropologists

302
00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,000
Speaker 1: call this an evolutionary mismatch. Is essentially when we develop

303
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,479
Speaker 1: up developed traits that in one environment are advantageous and

304
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,040
Speaker 1: help us survive and procreate, and then we move into

305
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,919
Speaker 1: a different environment, they can backfire more or less. And

306
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,640
Speaker 1: I love what you said to about there being something

307
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:22,080
Speaker 1: I think inherently human about hunting. Now going into this,

308
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,439
Speaker 1: I've never hunted before, and I could see that I

309
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,080
Speaker 1: could see that would be the case, but having to

310
00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,040
Speaker 1: experience it, I think was a it was a really

311
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:37,359
Speaker 1: new interesting experience for me across the board. And I

312
00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:42,199
Speaker 1: think you're right, like hunting, we're so removed from the

313
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,480
Speaker 1: modern environment when we're hunting. And I'm saying this as

314
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,160
Speaker 1: a person who's only been a few times so um,

315
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 1: but it's just radically different than even you know, climbing

316
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,159
Speaker 1: a mountain or doing any other random outdoor activities that

317
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:57,840
Speaker 1: a lot of people do today. Where we're on this

318
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,760
Speaker 1: sort of trail and we don't veer off the trail

319
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,680
Speaker 1: um and hunting. We're really embedding ourselves in the wild,

320
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,119
Speaker 1: and there are scientific benefits to that for our brains

321
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,959
Speaker 1: and bodies and having to engage with the life cycle too.

322
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,520
Speaker 1: I mean that was a huge leap for me as well. Right,

323
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,320
Speaker 1: It's like before this, it was like, oh, yeah, meat

324
00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,880
Speaker 1: just magically appears at the grocery store, just go down

325
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,199
Speaker 1: and buy it. I never thought about meat, you know.

326
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,520
Speaker 1: It's just like you grow up eating meat and whatever.

327
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:29,000
Speaker 1: That's what you do. Yeah, exactly, And there's no problem.

328
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,960
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not criticizing that at all, because it's

329
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,160
Speaker 1: just I mean, it's amazing that we have such a

330
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,680
Speaker 1: great food system that can keep us all alive. But there,

331
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,280
Speaker 1: but I think there are tangible benefits to having to

332
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,479
Speaker 1: think about where your meat comes from and where your

333
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 1: food comes from and go through these periods where you know,

334
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:53,040
Speaker 1: maybe you experience a little hunger. Yeah, you you point

335
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:58,639
Speaker 1: out five kind of overarching themes, five categories of discomfort

336
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,360
Speaker 1: in some way that you explore the you know how

337
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 1: we've kind of how we've moved away from them and

338
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,919
Speaker 1: learned as a society to avoid them. And then you

339
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:14,440
Speaker 1: know what the contrarian position, actually embracing these different discomforts

340
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 1: can can lead to in a positive way. And and

341
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 1: I want to walk through each one of these. I'll

342
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,240
Speaker 1: I will simplify and over generalize a title for each

343
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,800
Speaker 1: one and kind of set us up. Basically, the first

344
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,560
Speaker 1: one is doing hardship, the second one is being bored,

345
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 1: the third one is getting really hungry, the fourth one

346
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,359
Speaker 1: is getting comfortable with mortality. And the fifth one was,

347
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 1: like you said, exercise work in your body. And and

348
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,920
Speaker 1: like I mentioned at the top, this is basically um

349
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,040
Speaker 1: like a thesis that proves why people should hunt. I mean,

350
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,480
Speaker 1: all five of those things are discomforts you have to

351
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:56,959
Speaker 1: learn to embrace within the hunting experience. And that when

352
00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 1: I explain to people like why I do this, I

353
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,719
Speaker 1: could basically walk you through those five things and how

354
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,359
Speaker 1: I've been pushed in these different five categories to learn

355
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 1: more about myself, or learn more about the natural world,

356
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,439
Speaker 1: or learn more about our connection to these things and

357
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,640
Speaker 1: animals and life and each other and and all this stuff.

358
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 1: I mean, this is why, this, this one specific experience

359
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,199
Speaker 1: that I'm involved in has helped me grow and and

360
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,160
Speaker 1: I think you make the point in in your book

361
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of other ways that you can

362
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 1: do that, but it's it's nice that I had this

363
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 1: one example that it just so perfectly lined up with it.

364
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 1: As I read through all these is like yes, yes, yes,

365
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,160
Speaker 1: um more please I get it. Um. So let's let's

366
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,800
Speaker 1: examine that first one, which is something that I feel

367
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 1: like deep down in my bones so often when I

368
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,479
Speaker 1: feel that I'm experiencing the lack of it. So, you know,

369
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,479
Speaker 1: do hard stuff, and I think you're one of your

370
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 1: title chapters that do hard stuff. Um, outside as much

371
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,639
Speaker 1: as possible something like that. Um. Can you talk a

372
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: little bit about just that kind of introductory theme that

373
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 1: you explain in here and how everything you know, we

374
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:10,439
Speaker 1: are getting soft in a lot of ways, we're not

375
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 1: challenging ourselves in certain ways. UM. I love the missagi

376
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 1: concept that you talked about in there, too. So can

377
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 1: you kind of introduce the set up there on on

378
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 1: that one and that I'd love to, you know, explore

379
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 1: some of the different ways you found people adding new

380
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 1: challenges to their life and what that gives them totally.

381
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 1: So the idea is basically this, if you look at

382
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 1: our past lifestyles, I mean, we did epic challenges in

383
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 1: nature all the time, and this was all without safety nets,

384
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: and this was just a part of life. So this

385
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:45,199
Speaker 1: could be something like having to hunt, going on an

386
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 1: epic hunt. Uh, this could be we have to move

387
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 1: down to our summarine grounds and we have to to

388
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 1: you know, go over this pass and the weather is

389
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 1: coming in, and there's all these things we did that

390
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 1: we're challenging. And each time we would complete one of

391
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,920
Speaker 1: these challenges, we'd sort of go outside of our comfort zone.

392
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: We'd get put in a position where failure could be

393
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 1: very dangerous, but we'd have to dig deep and we'd

394
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 1: make it through, and then we learned something about ourselves

395
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 1: and we would expand our potential. Right. We know that

396
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: when people do hard things and come out the other side,

397
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: they are improved from that. But in modern life, we

398
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 1: don't have real challenges like today. You can live a

399
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: normal life and literally never be challenged at any time,

400
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: and that isn't that isn't okay life. Um. But by

401
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 1: never exploring the edges of your potential, you never really

402
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: know what you're capable of. Today, we have an outsize

403
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 1: fear of failure because nowadays, what is failure for the

404
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 1: average American? It's like, oh, I was presenting to my

405
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 1: office and I messed up a slide and my boss

406
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 1: gave me a bad look, and oh my god, that

407
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: was that was just terrible. Everybody saw the finale of

408
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones and I missed it. Yeah, that's exactly it.

409
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: Or it's like I didn't get enough likes on this Instagram.

410
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god, my life is falling apart. Right. So,

411
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 1: because we never challenge ourselves with these real things that

412
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 1: are dangerous, we now we now view these very minuscule

413
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: quote unquote failures in our lives with this outsized fear,

414
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 1: and we have an outsized reaction to them. So this

415
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: is why they think why a lot of researchers think

416
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: that depression and anxiety are so high, particularly among young people.

417
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: If you look at how um the generations have unfolded

418
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 1: like there was this, there's this spike in anxiety and

419
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 1: depression among kids born after and that is when helicopter

420
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: parenting became a thing. When you know, kids couldn't go

421
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,719
Speaker 1: outside anymore. Because there was a lot of reasons this happened,

422
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: but mostly there was like media fears around kidnapping. So

423
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: it's like kids couldn't go outside. Uh, you know, playgrounds

424
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,919
Speaker 1: became all plastics, so you couldn't bump your head that

425
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Um. So the idea that I lay

426
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: out in the book is this concept called missaggi. And

427
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 1: now I learned this from a guy whose name is

428
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 1: Marcus Elliott, and his background is he's a Harvard trained

429
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 1: m d. He uh is sort of a pioneer in

430
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: sports science. I mean, he's one of the leading sports

431
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 1: scientists in the country. He his first job as he

432
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 1: worked for the Patriots, he reduced their injury rates too,

433
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 1: from I think it was like twenty one hamstring injuries

434
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: a year down to three. Helped them win some Super Bowls.

435
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: And he was like the performance director of Major League Baseball.

436
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 1: And now he opened his own facility and he has

437
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,959
Speaker 1: a partnership with the NBA and NBA players come through

438
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 1: there and he does all this really fascinating science around

439
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: movement and injury risk and training. So I told you

440
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: all that to basically tell you that he's a smart

441
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: guy who's super into all this numbers and data and figures,

442
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: but being this guy whose job is to basic make

443
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: people perform better. He also told me, like a lot

444
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: of this stuff can't be measured, and there are certain

445
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: things that you can do to improve performance. So he

446
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: calls this thing he does uh massouga. He started doing

447
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: this when he was in grad school at Harvard, and

448
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: once a year he picks one really epic task in

449
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: nature and the rule is is that it has to

450
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: be really hard, which he defines by saying it has

451
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 1: to you have to have a fifty percent chance failing it.

452
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: And then rule number two is that you can't die.

453
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, exactly, he makes up these wacky challenges like

454
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: he's him and athletes will go out and his friends

455
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 1: and for example, one of them, they got this eight

456
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: five pound boulder and they walked it five miles under

457
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 1: water under the ocean off the coast of Santa Barbara.

458
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: Took them like five six hours. They had no idea.

459
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: I mean, they don't train for any of these things.

460
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: It's just like we're gonna do something crazy in nature,

461
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: and there's going to be all these moments where we

462
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: want to quit. Um, we're only gonna have a half

463
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: a chance of actually finishing this thing. But along the way,

464
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: we're gonna like learn something about ourselves and what we're

465
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: truly capable of and face these you know, sort of

466
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 1: real challenges and face down our fears. And by coming

467
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: out the other side of that, it's like you can

468
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: bring those tools back into your normal life to really

469
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: move the dit you know. Yeah, man, there's there's so

470
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: that idea resonates with me so much, and it's it's

471
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: it's kind of funny. There's I've been reading a lot

472
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: about a very separate, well maybe not entirely separate idea

473
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 1: around evolution and extinction and how a lot of extinction events,

474
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: you know, this being kind of the opposite of evolution happens.

475
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's a long, slow trickle of these things happening,

476
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: and then there's these punctuations of massive change that you know,

477
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: are are where the real change happens. You know, environmental

478
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:13,479
Speaker 1: conditions warp dramatically, forcing immediate adaptation or extinction. Um. And

479
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: so you have these events that these these staccato events, um,

480
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 1: that define life or the lack thereof. And if you

481
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: so that's like on the macro scale, if you zoom

482
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 1: that into the micro scale of individual lives, I think

483
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: you make a case that the exact same thing is true.

484
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: You know, like so much of our life is just

485
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: it's just day by day doing the same kind of thing,

486
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: Groundhog's day, YadA, YadA, YadA. And then we have these events,

487
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: we have these challenges, whether it's you know, uh self induced,

488
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: we've we've taken it upon ourselves to do and to

489
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: have a challenge, or something comes out of the blue

490
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: hits you over the head and changes your life for you.

491
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: But I think so much of your life is colored

492
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: by these tough things. Um. Sometimes it can be fun,

493
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: sometimes not so much. But in this case, like this

494
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: is a way to steer positive change in your life

495
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: by creating those tough, challenging events. UM. And I love it.

496
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: It's something that I've tried to do and always want

497
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 1: to do more of. I crave you know, challenges, goals,

498
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: testing yourself. UM. I don't know if you've ever heard

499
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: a lot of folks, I think it's I think it

500
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: was first popularized within the climbing world. But there's this

501
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: concept of type one, two and three fun. Are you

502
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: familiar with that? So so I love this idea. Type

503
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: one fun is like you're gonna go play basketball your buddies,

504
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: you're gonna go watch a movie, or you go and

505
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: take a roller coaster ride or something like. It's it's

506
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: simple fun. That's fun at the moment, but it's the

507
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: kind of fun that you know, it's it's great right

508
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: now and then, but a day or two from now,

509
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: right it's kind of slipped away. It's nothing that substantial.

510
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: Type too fun is the kind of fun where I

511
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: think a Massagi falls into this category where you're doing

512
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: something in the moment. Man, it is tough, it is challenging.

513
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: You might look at your buddy you're climbing a mountain

514
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: and you look at your friend like, man, this is stupid,

515
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: ship like we are, this is miserable, this is crazy,

516
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: But you do it. You get through it, and the

517
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: next day you're you know, you're beaming like, man, that

518
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,239
Speaker 1: was incredible, that was amazing. I can't believe we did that.

519
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,239
Speaker 1: And and a year later you're telling the story and

520
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: five years later, when your buddies get back together and

521
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: you're having a beer, you're telling the story again. Those

522
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: are the things that I live for. I live for

523
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: like that type two stuff, and then type three is

524
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: this stuff like where you just about die and it's

525
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: scary as hell and maybe it's not fun at all,

526
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: but it makes her a great story. So usually sweet

527
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: spots the type two fun um. But I feel like

528
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: this concept that you've been writing about, you know, it

529
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: fits into that a lot. I mean, whether it's planning

530
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: a week on backpacking trip or a crazy day like

531
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: what you're describing Elliott was doing, or people you know

532
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: that sign up for one of these hundred mile ultramarathons.

533
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: I mean, anything like that that just like pushes you

534
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: to go beyond what you think is possible and make

535
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: you do something crazy and forces you to to to

536
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: to just like dig in um, there's just I mean,

537
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: there just seems to be so much, so much positive

538
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: that comes out of it and you and you, I

539
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: mean the science backs that up right. I Mean there's

540
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: a lot of things that come from those. Yeah, well

541
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: think of um, think of the work of Joseph Campbell,

542
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: who's the guy I mean he's this Uh. He came

543
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: up with this idea of the hero's journey because he

544
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: investigated all these different cultures around the world and he

545
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: found that most of their stories of myths they have

546
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: the same key elements, and it's that the hero leaves

547
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: the comfort of their normal life. They go out into

548
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: this trying, uncomfortable middle ground. They really you know, battle

549
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: and they're up against it. They're uncomfortable, they're not sure

550
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: if they're going to make it to the other side,

551
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: but they do, they succeed, and then they come back

552
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: into their normal life and they are better for it,

553
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,239
Speaker 1: and they have evolved as a person. So this is

554
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: the same concept of like a right of passage, which

555
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: is another thing that young people don't have, you know. Um.

556
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: In traditional cultures, a right of passage was usually this

557
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: sort of epic nature based physical challenge. Like the Massi

558
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: tribe they would send their young out to hunt a

559
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: lion with a spear. Um there's I mean, the the

560
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: Inuit would send young people out to hunt caribou and

561
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: narwhall and those sort of things out in the you know,

562
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: challenging environment, and then they come back and they're better

563
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: for that and we don't have that, And I mean,

564
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: I even think of in your book, there's the scene

565
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: where you and your buddy are headed into the Bob

566
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: Marshall Wilderness and you've got these pack graphs, right, and

567
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: you're like going to get across this, uh, this lake

568
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: or this pond, and the weather is just hammering you

569
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: and it's very clearly dangerous and and like your mind

570
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: is what the hell are we doing out here? And

571
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: then you guys just look at each other and you

572
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: and you just smile eventually because you're like, this is

573
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: this is so stupid, but it is so awesome and

574
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: that's something something, Yeah, that's something you're never going to

575
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: forget the rest of your life. And you mentioned before

576
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: it's our days can get very routine. And there is

577
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: a very good scientific reason for that. It's because we

578
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: evolved in these harsh, trying, uncomfortable landscapes. If we could

579
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: predict something that kept us safe. So our brain wants

580
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: to keep us in a predictable cycle because that used

581
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: to help our survival, and those genes were passed on.

582
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: But nowadays we're living in these worlds where it's so

583
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: predictable and so survival well, I mean it's hard to

584
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: die now, right, that it's keeping us within these sort

585
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: of safety nets that lead us to live these lives

586
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: that when we look back, know when we're older, we're

587
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: not gonna have many memories of sitting around watching you know,

588
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: the tenth season of Top Chef. Uh, you know that

589
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. Yeah. No, I'm trying to remember from

590
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: the reading, were there any specific best practices other than

591
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: making it hard and not dying? Um? As far as

592
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: like things to think about if someone's wanting to add

593
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: this kind of challenge or some kind of event to

594
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: their life. Um, were there any mad big things I

595
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: think about there? Yeah? So think, I mean think truly challenging, um,

596
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: to kind of give them a little more detail on

597
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: what constitutes hard. So if you, let's say you decide

598
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: you're going to do some crazy outdoor run. Um, if

599
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: you've if you're training for that by you know, running

600
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: ten miles one day, fifteen miles, and you've got this

601
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: whole training program, and you decide you're gonna run fifty

602
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: miles and you do like these training runs up to miles,

603
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: that's not hard enough because you've you've trained yourself into

604
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: the fact that you're not going to fail. Now, if

605
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: you decided you were going to run fifty miles and

606
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: you'd never run say thirty before, and but you thought

607
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: maybe you could do it now, forty seemed like a

608
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: pretty big stretch, but maybe you could do it. But

609
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: fifty you're like, shit, I really don't know. If I

610
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: could do fifty, well, then that would be hard enough.

611
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: Like you need to have a real sense that like

612
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,760
Speaker 1: I may not I may not be able to finish

613
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: this thing. Rule too, don't die, So that means you know,

614
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: be safe about this. Take your damn cell phone in

615
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: case you're like, okay, I need someone to come pick

616
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: me up or whatever. Um. And then the other ones

617
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: are that you don't want to do something that is

618
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: very comparable to You're not doing this, uh to compare

619
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: yourself to others. So for example, you don't want to

620
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: be like, oh, well I don't know, Um, this guy

621
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: ran a marathon and he did it in this time,

622
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: so I'm just gonna try and do it in a

623
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: shorter time so I can beat him. So it's like,

624
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 1: you want to do this for yourself, and you don't

625
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: want to share this out on social media because this

626
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: is really just for you, and it's this one thing

627
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: where you can think back on and just be like,

628
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: oh man, I did this weird, quirky thing that I

629
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: can't compare to anyone else, Like you want to make

630
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: this for you and your own growth and epic stories,

631
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 1: and I mean bring friends along too, right now? Were

632
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:24,720
Speaker 1: there any tangible like like what was it Mark Elliot

633
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: or Matt Elliott, Mark Marcus Marcus Elliott. So when he's

634
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 1: pitching this to the athletes, he works with our different

635
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: things like that, like what's the what's the what what's

636
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: the take home? Like if you do this, He's not

637
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: telling me You're just gonna get a good story. He's

638
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: not telling them you're just gonna be better for it. Um,

639
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: was he able to was he able to prove any

640
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 1: kind of performance improvement or mental health improvement or anything

641
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: in a quantifiable way? Or are we or are we

642
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: basically saying, hey, trust me, you're gonna feel like a

643
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: new person after having tackle the challenge like this. Yeah,

644
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: it's hard to measure, right, but you know, he says,

645
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: And it could be it could be a chicken and

646
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: egg thing where it's like the guys who decided to

647
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: do this are already ones who are acquired a certain

648
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: way you don't know, um, but like the guys that

649
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: he has do it. And you know, he named some

650
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: names for me and said, don't share them because a

651
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: lot of these athletes don't want their names out with

652
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: all this different stuff. But I mean, there's some of

653
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: the best in the game, and a lot of them

654
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 1: are known for these clutch performances, and so it's like

655
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 1: they sort of get this inner sense of confidence because

656
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: it's like, if you've done these really rad, cool, crazy

657
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: things that you didn't think you could do, but you

658
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: came out on the other side of that and did it,

659
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: I can give you a new gear. You're gonna find

660
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: out a lot about yourself when you're out on those edges,

661
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: sort of exploring what your edges of tolerance are. Yeah,

662
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. Another another one of these

663
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: big discomforts that we've lost in today's day and age

664
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: is boredom. And man, as I was reading that about

665
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: this this uh phenomena, I certainly started catching myself doing

666
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: things so much more often, and I realized how few

667
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: quiet moments are left in life because we've filled them

668
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: with with so much distraction. Can you talk a little

669
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: bit about this, just the epidemic of distraction and lack

670
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: of boredom and why that's not such a good thing. Yeah.

671
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: So I started thinking about this because we're in the Arctic,

672
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: and you know, we're sitting on hills glassing for caribou

673
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: all day, and I mean it took us, took us

674
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: a while to find I mean, for any caribou to

675
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 1: run through. We're trying to catch and during this migration, right,

676
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: And so we'd sit on these hills with like glass

677
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 1: and scopes. Nothing is happening, and my cell phone doesn't

678
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: work up there. It's not like I brought a book

679
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: or a magazine to kill the time. I'm just sitting

680
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: there doing nothing. Right, So let's start like reading the

681
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: labels on my energy bars. I'd start reading the tags

682
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: on my gear, you know, going oh, okay, this is

683
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: down and wow polyester. Yeah. And but then eventually, you know,

684
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 1: you start your mind starts to wander and go to

685
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 1: these different places. And so I get home and I

686
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: start to look into this h and it's so different

687
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: than life at home, right, Whereas like now when we're board,

688
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:23,919
Speaker 1: we just pull out our cell phone. Like how often

689
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: do you pull out your cell phone, or turn on

690
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: the TV or whatever, turn on a song or something.

691
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 1: Boredom is this boredom is uncomfortable, and there's a good

692
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: reason for that. It's an evolutionary discomfort that we evolved

693
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: to have that basically tells us that we are using

694
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,720
Speaker 1: our time in an inefficient manner. So as we evolved,

695
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: it would basically kick on any time that we are

696
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: sitting around because we always needed to be working somehow

697
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: to gather resources to get ready for the next you know,

698
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 1: storm or whatever it was. It would kick on and

699
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: be like, hey, you can be you should be doing

700
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: something right now, and we'd go out and do something.

701
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: But now our escape from boredom. It's, like I said,

702
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: it's just your cell phone or whatever it is, so

703
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: we're not We're not using it for productive time anymore.

704
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: We spend eleven hours and six minutes a day on

705
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 1: average engaging with digital media, so that's a few hours

706
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: from our cell phones. We spend like five hours on

707
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: average watching TV, and then there's you know, music and

708
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: all that other stuff. I mean, all this media is

709
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: not even a hundred years old, Like the radio was invented,

710
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 1: I think in the twenties. So we had like we

711
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: went from this period of life through all the time

712
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 1: we evolved, where we would experience these moments of downtime

713
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: and boredom, and it would often compel us to go

714
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 1: do something or think creatively or come up with some

715
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: new way to improve our lives. Then we invent media,

716
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: and now it's like when boredom kicks in, it's like

717
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go on YouTube and watch some video.

718
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: You know, that's not that's not really improving our lives.

719
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 1: And the other thing that's interesting about boredom is a

720
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: lot of times it will force our mind to go inward.

721
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: We'll start thinking of ideas about how we can improve

722
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 1: our lives. We'll come up with plans, will come up

723
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: with maybe creative ideas. It's like when I was up

724
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: there in the Arctic, you know, I'd look at nature,

725
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: I'd noticed things that was interesting, and I think, oh,

726
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: you know, I just came up with an idea for

727
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: us for a magazine article. I came up with a

728
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 1: bunch of different ideas. I wrote some of the book.

729
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: I did all these different things that were a little

730
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: more creative. Um and that's restorative for our brains, whereas

731
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: a lot of the media that we used to today

732
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: we're having to look. We're having to focus outwardly, and

733
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: when your brain is focusing on the outward world, it's

734
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: actually working very hard. But when we're thinking inwardly, it

735
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 1: gives our brain these periods of downtime. It's like these

736
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: two different modes that scientists talk about. So now that

737
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 1: we're on media so much, it's like one, we're just

738
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: consuming this stuff that isn't really helping our lives a lot.

739
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: I mean, unfortunately most people don't go, you know, I'm bored.

740
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna open up the encyclopedia and learn

741
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: something great, like most people are just like Instagram, Twitter, YouTube,

742
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: whatever it is. And then too, because we're focused outwardly

743
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: so often, it's really burning out our brains, and this

744
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: is leaving to leading to burnout. We have a lower

745
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: ability to focus, our creativity is dropping, we have higher

746
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,919
Speaker 1: rates of anxiety, like our brains are just burned out.

747
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: And so by putting ourselves in positions where we can

748
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: become board, which is another reason hunting is great, because

749
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: your cell phone often doesn't work out there and you

750
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: kind of have to just sit with yourself and be

751
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 1: with your thoughts. Um, we cannot only sort of begin

752
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: to think on a different wavelength and think about things

753
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: that would maybe improve our lives, come up with ideas

754
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: and all these different things. But we're also just reviving

755
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,919
Speaker 1: our brains, giving giving ourselves some downtime. Yeah, so what's

756
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: the prescription other than going hunting more and making sure

757
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 1: your phone's off? Yeah? Well, I mean there's so everyone

758
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 1: thinks phone and the reason is, I mean, there's good

759
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 1: reasons for that. It's because phones are new, and phones

760
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: are always on us and they actively steal our attention.

761
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: But so you see all these articles that are like

762
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: how to break up with your phone, why you need

763
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: to use your phone less? But I really think about

764
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 1: it is you just need more boredom in your life

765
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: because a lot of people will still put down their phone,

766
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: but then they'll just flip on the TV. It's like

767
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: your brand doesn't know the damn difference between the two, right,

768
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: You're still you're basically doing the same thing. It's just

769
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: a bigger screen. So I tend to think about it

770
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: as we need more boredom, And for me, very simple ways,

771
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting that you need to be bored for

772
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: hours a day. But for me, really simple ways is

773
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: like go for an afternoon stroll without your cell phone

774
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: and don't bring your ear pods. Have these have this

775
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: time where you're just not stimulated by media. A big

776
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: year long hunt can be good to where you're not

777
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: bringing your phone to right and just finding ways where

778
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: you're not going to have that easy, easy access to

779
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,720
Speaker 1: kill your boredom with a form of digital media or another.

780
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,919
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll when I go out and do errands,

781
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 1: a lot of times I'll just leave my phone at home.

782
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: It's like people freak out about that. Now, It's like

783
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: we didn't even have cell phones ten years ago. We're

784
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: gonna be fine, you know, just having these times where

785
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: you're not stimulated and you're put in a position to

786
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: be inside your own head. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy

787
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: that this is one of those things that, at least

788
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: for me, you don't even realize it. But while I

789
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: was reading this, it gave me a new sense of

790
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: self awareness, and I started realizing that I have filled

791
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: every nook and cranny of my day with some kind

792
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: of information intake. If I'm not chasing my kids in

793
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: or working, if I'm not doing those two things that

794
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 1: take up a huge part of my life. All the

795
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 1: rest of the time, I'm consuming something like when I'm showering,

796
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: I put on a podcast. When I'm going for a run,

797
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: I'm listening to an audiobooker podcast. When I drive to

798
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: the store, I've got something playing ship. Even now, when

799
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: I go to the grocery store, I put your buds

800
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: on and I list and this stuff when I'm in

801
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: the grocery store. Uh. And I realized, Wow, like I'm

802
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 1: leaving no gaps at all to just think about stuff,

803
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 1: to just let my mind wander. And and like you said,

804
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: the science is showing that you need that empty space

805
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: to to to be creative, to be to do so

806
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: many things. I mean, it's uh, it was. It was

807
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,720
Speaker 1: an eye opener for me. And so I've actively been trying.

808
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 1: And I still have this tendency because I'm just I'm

809
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: a voracious learner. I just want to learn, learn and learn.

810
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: I want to know more about that. I want to

811
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: know arnot that. So I'm constantly trying to consume stuff,

812
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: but I have to like check myself. So some mornings

813
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: when I go for my run, I'll be like I

814
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: can't find a podcast I want. I don't like this one,

815
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: only this one, and then I'll catch it and I'll

816
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 1: be oh, that's a great sign. You don't need to

817
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: listen to anything, just just run and think and uh

818
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: and that's been a good thing. I think. Yeah, I'm

819
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: I'm totally the same way. It's a battle. I mean,

820
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: what we need to realize is we have these evolutionary

821
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,760
Speaker 1: impulses one but number two. I mean, there are entire

822
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: billion dollar companies where people with PhDs sit around all

823
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 1: day and think, how can I make this cell phone

824
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: app more addictive to people? How can I get people

825
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: to engage with it more time, a more time of

826
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,280
Speaker 1: their day. And it's like, you know, I know for myself,

827
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 1: morons like me, it is a battle to fight against

828
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: these amazingly engineered apps. But it's you know, it's one

829
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: we got to fight because I think, like I said,

830
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 1: when you look at the data and how it's affecting people,

831
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 1: we need those periods of downtime. So it's that's why

832
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: I do That's why I do the force thing. It's

833
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 1: like I don't even want my cell phone on me

834
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: because I know that my brain is just gonna default

835
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: to grabbing it if it's just nowhere, and if I

836
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: can put myself out of the house where there's not

837
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: screens and stuff, it's like I'm forced into boredom. Yes,

838
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: so much of this, so much of this is is

839
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: preempting the impulse. So when you're when your mental state

840
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 1: is strong, it's like the same was trying to eat healthy.

841
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,919
Speaker 1: At least for me, if I just have like junk

842
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: food around the house, then it's gonna catch me at

843
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: moments when I'm vulnerable and it's there and I'm gonna

844
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: eat it because I had a bad day of work

845
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: or something happened whatever, and then that will make me

846
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 1: feel really good in the moment and then to eat it.

847
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: But if you can be strong in those moments of

848
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: strength and say, you know what, I want to be

849
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: a healthier person, I know that it's gonna be hard

850
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: for me in moments of vulnerability. So instead of just

851
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: having this stuff around when you go to the grocery store,

852
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna buy any junk food. I'm not going

853
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: to keep this stuff in the house. If my grandma

854
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: comes by and brings a dozen cookies, don't tell her,

855
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna throw them in the trash afterwards, because

856
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: I know that I'll eat them if I let them

857
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: stay here. It's like those types of things have to

858
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 1: be applied to, you know, preserving pockets of boredom so

859
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,839
Speaker 1: or pockets of focus. You know, there's this idea of

860
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: deep work, Um, that the same things that are challenging

861
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: that you're describing here also make it really hard to

862
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: do good work because we're constantly our phones are constantly

863
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: checking email. So I've had to you know, I'm sure

864
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: you had this when you're writing this book. Um. To

865
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: get my book done, to get any of the work

866
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: that I need to get deep into it, I have

867
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: to put my phone literally on the other side of

868
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,720
Speaker 1: the room. I have to shut down the browser window.

869
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 1: I sometimes will set a time around my phone and say,

870
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: all right, for the next thirty minutes, no nothing, like

871
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: every time you have this impulse to be like, oh

872
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: this is hard, I wanted to look at ESPN, or

873
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: that this sucks. Why don't I just see what's on

874
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: my phone? Like instead of that, I cannot do anything

875
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 1: but focus for the next thirty minutes. And then that

876
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,479
Speaker 1: alarm goes off and I'm like, okay, I can feel

877
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: like I got solid thirty minutes done. Now I can

878
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,240
Speaker 1: take a break. Um. It's like those weird little things

879
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 1: that you need to create. And maybe this isn't for everybody.

880
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just weird, but I need to create. Um.

881
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: I don't know frames to to work within to make

882
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 1: myself effective. And I think the same applies to to

883
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 1: staying board, keep your phone away, keep the notifications off.

884
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: Maybe you don't need the Facebook app on your phone.

885
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,479
Speaker 1: Maybe you don't need to take you know, your phone

886
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: with you on the hike. Um, maybe you don't need

887
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 1: to take it on your hunt. That's that's something in

888
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: the hunting world where lots of times you don't have service.

889
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 1: But if you live in a place with service, you

890
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: have the same temptation. You're sitting out there and you

891
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: should be enjoying nature and watching what's around you and

892
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: paying attention. But if there's nothing actually happening at that moment,

893
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: I've certainly been guilty of yanking it out too. So

894
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: ye you you talk about something that again a lot

895
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 1: of us would just say like, oh, yeah, I've experienced this,

896
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 1: But now the science is backing it up in a

897
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: really substantial way. It's pretty cool, and that is the

898
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: value of being outside. UM. I think gosh over after

899
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: the last year, after COVID, people are really starting to

900
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,959
Speaker 1: see this then maybe previously hadn't. UM. Can you talk

901
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: about this new um wave of studies and science that's

902
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: pointing to actual quantifiable benefits of being outside and quote

903
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: unquote forest bathing and stuff like that. Yes, for sure.

904
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you what also, maybe sort of really

905
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: realized this we UM when we're in the Arctic. We

906
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: had seen this herd of cariboo and there was there's

907
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 1: an old bowl in there, so we you know, stock

908
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 1: it out for like five ten miles or something, and anyways,

909
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 1: it scomps us and we have this walk home, so

910
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: we you know, hike back across the tundra to our

911
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: campsite where we have this caparo TV or whatever, and

912
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: that comes into sight and there's a herd like literally

913
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: in our camp and we kind of look at it

914
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:50,280
Speaker 1: and you know, there's it's all um, it's all younger caribou.

915
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: Until we're like, okay, whatever. And I'm there with Donnie

916
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: Vincent and his cameraman William Altman, who's a who's a

917
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:01,479
Speaker 1: great dude too, and so Williams like, Okay, I'm gonna

918
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: go get some footage of this, you know, because Donnie,

919
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,240
Speaker 1: if you guys have seen his films, it's not just hunting.

920
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: I mean it's almost like a it's a nature documentary

921
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 1: like Planet Earth that happens to have some hunting in it,

922
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: you know. So William goes out and um, he's crawling

923
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 1: across the ground and getting these shots, and he rises

924
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: and he ends up spoking this herd, and Donnie and

925
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: I are just laying on the tun to just sort

926
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: of observing from afar, and this herd gets spoked i

927
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:30,240
Speaker 1: mean directly at us, towards us. So they start charging

928
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: in and it's like, oh my god, Like they're headed

929
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 1: right at us, and we're just laying on the ground.

930
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: You know, they have no idea where there. And you know,

931
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 1: I would say before this trip, like I was, I'm

932
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: an outdoorsy person. I always have been. I'm an eagle scout,

933
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: but I'm also you know, and in my thirties, like

934
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 1: this is a key period for work and stuff, Like

935
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: it's hard to get out in nature a ton and

936
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: I never really embedded myself deeply in nature for that long,

937
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't think that I'm that different

938
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: than anyone else. I know when you look at the

939
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: data now, it's people spend of their time indoors. We're

940
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 1: chained to our desk um. I love there. There's a

941
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: statu that you had in your book that Yellowstone visitors

942
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 1: never leaves out of a road at estimate. You know,

943
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 1: so we just don't spend that much time in nature.

944
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 1: And I think part of it it's because nature is

945
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 1: uncomfortable and it's unpredictable, and so anyways, we're laying there

946
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: and this herd keeps closing in. I mean they get

947
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,320
Speaker 1: close enough that the ground starts to rumble, and Donnie

948
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: and I are just locked on them. And then they

949
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,959
Speaker 1: get close enough that you know they're seventy five yards

950
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: you can start to smell them, see their hooves kicking

951
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: up the earth and and um. You know, at a

952
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,399
Speaker 1: certain point it occurs to me and they're like fifty

953
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 1: yards out, like, wait, they are they going to trample

954
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: us right now? You know? And probably thirty yards out

955
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,399
Speaker 1: they like the kareem left and like the earth shakes

956
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 1: as they go by, and they go up to this

957
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,399
Speaker 1: like pinnacle of this hill and you can just see

958
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 1: them that are like black against this you know, golden sunset.

959
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: And it was one of those moments where you're just

960
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: like holy sh it, Like it was the most unbelievable

961
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: moments in the book. I describe it as like wild

962
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: as a religious experience where you know, if you kind

963
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: of feel like you're part of something bigger in times

964
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: like that, And you know, it got me thinking about

965
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 1: how we don't have moments like that anymore, and people

966
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: spent so little time in nature, and we're all anxious.

967
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 1: We have you know, depression and anxiety or through the roof,

968
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: people are are burned out. You look at the data

969
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: and it's like we're the most anxious people who've ever

970
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: walked the earth. But when I after having been up

971
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 1: in Alaska for so long, like you would think with

972
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 1: all this discomfort I was going through with you know,

973
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: encountering grizzly bears, having to everything required effort um crossing

974
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: you know, these rivers and being freezing the whole time,

975
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: you'd think I'd be like stressed out and just totally

976
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 1: on edge. The opposite was true. It was like the

977
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 1: most zen I've ever felt in my entire life, Just

978
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 1: super calm, supercentered, super focused, and so I wanted to know,

979
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: you know, what what is going on with that. I

980
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: get home and I start looking at the research. And

981
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: a while ago there's a biologist, famous biologist named EO. Wilson,

982
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 1: and he had this theory called the biophilia hypothesis that

983
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: basically states, you know, humans evolved in nature, and therefore

984
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: nature is this thing we need to be happy and healthy,

985
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: like it's it's part of our lives. We we are

986
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:38,919
Speaker 1: part of it, but we've removed ourselves and by going

987
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: back out into nature we can experience these benefits, especially

988
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 1: mental health benefits. And when he proposed this, most people

989
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: at the time, other scientists I thought it was just

990
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 1: a crock of ship. Basically, they were like, any benefits

991
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: that people get from nature are probably just because they're

992
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 1: hiking out in nature or they're you know, going on

993
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 1: a run or something in nature. And then the Japanese

994
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: started studying this, so the government created this a bunch

995
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: of parks around the country and started promoting this idea

996
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: that they called forest bathing, which is sort of hilarious,

997
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 1: but it's basically just the idea of like, spend time

998
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,959
Speaker 1: in nature, hang out there you'll see some benefits. So

999
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,760
Speaker 1: a bunch of Japanese scientists started to see if this program,

1000
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: which was funded by taxes, had any real benefits for people,

1001
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 1: and they found that people who spend more time in

1002
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: nature their calmer. They generally have better health markers. And

1003
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 1: if you put people in nature even for just like five, ten,

1004
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, they emerge better off, like there are a

1005
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: lot they are calmer, less stress, anxiety levels go down,

1006
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: cortisol levels go down. So they really established this as

1007
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: like a thing worth chasing, and you know, we had

1008
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 1: we sort of intuitively know this, but they gave us data,

1009
00:54:57,719 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 1: and the data has only been growing since they're The

1010
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 1: was like in the eighties. So to learn more about this,

1011
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: I go to Boston. Flying to Boston, I meet with

1012
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: this girl who's a nature scientist and she's helped develop

1013
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 1: this idea that's called the nature pyramid. So this is

1014
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 1: very much like the food pyramid, but instead of saying,

1015
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: you know, eat this many servings of broccoli and eat

1016
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 1: this many servings of meat every day, it basically tells

1017
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 1: you how long you should spend in what type of nature,

1018
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: how often. So at the bottom of the pyramid, um

1019
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: the research shows you should spend about twenty minutes a

1020
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: week in just everyday nature like you could find in

1021
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 1: a park like a city park, three times three times

1022
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 1: a week, twenty minutes. And it helps with your calmness,

1023
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:50,439
Speaker 1: It helps people um mental acuity and sharpness. It also

1024
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 1: boost creativity and lower stress levels. UM. So that's the

1025
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: bottom of the pyramid they found. And then the second

1026
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 1: level of the pyramid is five hours month in wilder nature.

1027
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:03,720
Speaker 1: So this is the type of stuff you might find

1028
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 1: in a state park. This is, you know, stuff that

1029
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 1: you might have to drive for. Um. It's not as

1030
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 1: manicured as a city park, but it's also not super

1031
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 1: far to get there. You probably still have have cell service.

1032
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 1: And we know this is the ideal amount of time

1033
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 1: from a bunch of research that has been conducted in

1034
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: UH Finland. So people in Finland go outside of ton

1035
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 1: and they surveyed a bunch of people in the country

1036
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 1: and the people who were least likely to be depressed

1037
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:33,240
Speaker 1: and also reported the lowest levels of chronic stress spent

1038
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 1: h five or more hours a week in this type

1039
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: of sort of country nature. I call it in the

1040
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 1: book UM the very top of the pyramid, and this

1041
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 1: is I think, what's what's most fascinating to me and

1042
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,839
Speaker 1: will be most fascinating to people who spend who do

1043
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 1: you know, overnight and extended hunts and do you know

1044
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 1: any sort of backpacking trips. Is the top is three

1045
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: days a year you should spend in the back country.

1046
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:03,280
Speaker 1: So this leads to pretty crazy brain changes where people's

1047
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 1: brains start producing what are called alpha waves. Now these

1048
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: are the same brain waves that are found in experienced

1049
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:14,879
Speaker 1: meditators like the Yogis who live in the caves, you know. Um,

1050
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: So spending these three days or more out in very

1051
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 1: off the grid nature where your phone doesn't work, there's

1052
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 1: you know, no road you have to hike in. It's

1053
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 1: kind of like a meditation retreat, except you know, you

1054
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: can talk to other people and there's no costs and

1055
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 1: there's no gurus telling you what to do. And um

1056
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 1: it's also associated with just crazy boost and creativity UM

1057
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 1: PTSD levels. They've done studies where they've taken vets into

1058
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 1: nature for this amount of time and their PTSD levels

1059
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 1: drop and they stay low for a very long time.

1060
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: UM just sort of resets and revives your thinking and

1061
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 1: just makes us a lot more calmer and think on

1062
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 1: a different wavelength. And I think this is the most

1063
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: lady I meet in Boston. I mean she sees, she

1064
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 1: really sees tie these different amounts of time and nature

1065
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: as a way to combat the modern condition where we're

1066
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: just like overstressed, overworked, over worried about everyday bs and cheap,

1067
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 1: easy and free. Right. And there's probably a lot of

1068
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:19,479
Speaker 1: reasons that nature has this effect. I mean the fact

1069
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 1: that we're that we are away from our desk. Um.

1070
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 1: There's different sounds that seem to benefit us in nature.

1071
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 1: There's this idea of biophilia like I talked about before.

1072
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 1: There's also fewer people that seems to help. There's also fractals,

1073
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 1: which are these repeating patterns that you see over and

1074
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 1: over in the universe that you don't get in man

1075
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: made structures. Those seem to like speak to us at

1076
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,439
Speaker 1: this core level. And so I think I think that's

1077
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 1: why hunting is so great too, because you are really

1078
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 1: really removed. I mean most people aren't hunting right on

1079
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: a trail, right, It's like you you've got to go

1080
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 1: deep in the woods to uh, to get something. So

1081
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's a it's fascinating research. And I

1082
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: worked that into my own life. I I live just

1083
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 1: outside the desert, so I'll go run in the desert

1084
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: at least a couple of times a week. Yeah. Yeah, man,

1085
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: it's um it it really is interesting to see the

1086
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 1: science backing up you know, those types of those types

1087
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 1: of experiences, and and it just helps put words and

1088
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: numbers to a feeling that I think a lot of

1089
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 1: us have had and and for some reason, seeing that verified, uh,

1090
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 1: just makes it seem you know, that much more satisfying

1091
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 1: to know, like, Okay, yeah, you know these things I've

1092
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 1: been doing, these trips I've been planning, um, these excursions

1093
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 1: that I'm telling my boss that I need some time

1094
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 1: to go do, Like, it's it's worth it, It's it's

1095
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 1: it's really helping. It makes a difference. Um. And you

1096
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: mentioned there that the top of the pyramid those you know,

1097
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 1: at least three days once a year. You talk about

1098
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: something called the three day effect in the book and

1099
00:59:56,360 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 1: how after that three day level, something unique happens that

1100
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: maybe day one day does doesn't. Um. I've definitely felt

1101
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 1: this too. Can you can you talk about that? Yeah?

1102
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 1: So that three day effect, it was a it has

1103
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 1: an interesting history. So there's this uh fascinating rare bookstore

1104
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: in Salt Lake City owned by this guy named Ken Sanders,

1105
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: and he's sort of this icon in Salt Lake City.

1106
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 1: And he used to hang out with Edward Abbey and

1107
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: go on trips with Abby, which I'm sure a lot

1108
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 1: of your listeners would be familiar with. And he just

1109
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: noticed that on the third day that he would spend

1110
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: out in the wild, um, he would start to feel

1111
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 1: a lot calmer, just start to feel a lot different,

1112
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 1: more at ease, more like, you know, like he's he

1113
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: feels good about himself, you know. And he mentions this

1114
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 1: to a guy whose name is David Strayer, who is

1115
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 1: a neuroscientist at the University of Utah. And Strayer is

1116
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 1: probably the world's foremost expert on how cell phones affect

1117
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: the brain and our attention. And he's also a hard

1118
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 1: core nature junkie, Like he'll go and spend a long

1119
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 1: time out in the wild. And he was like, oh, yeah,

1120
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 1: I feel that too, And he'd had conversations with people

1121
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 1: who also said the same thing. And these are conversations

1122
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 1: with colleagues who are you know, these PhD wielding people

1123
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 1: who love data numbers and figures. They're saying like, yeah,

1124
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: there's no date on it, but I don't know. I

1125
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 1: just feel different and straighter starts investigating it with the

1126
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 1: girl that I met in Boston. And this is where

1127
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 1: they would take people down to to sort of figure

1128
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: out what was going on. They would take people down

1129
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 1: to this campground. It was actually a class, so these

1130
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 1: are like twenty year old college students to this campground

1131
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: in southern Utah that's super remote, no cell phone service

1132
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 1: or any of that, and this is where they learned that.

1133
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,439
Speaker 1: The reason is probably because your brain starts to ride

1134
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 1: these alpha waves, which are a lot um slower, more

1135
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 1: meditative and introspective compared to beta waves, which are the

1136
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,040
Speaker 1: waves that we tend to ride in our day of

1137
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: the life that are like frenetic, go go go, really scattered.

1138
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 1: So it's that transition. For some reason, on day three,

1139
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 1: your brain just starts to change and shift and you

1140
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 1: get these awesome waves that are that are very good

1141
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 1: for us. And it just takes enough, you know, completely

1142
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 1: enough time removed from those distractions that it takes that

1143
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 1: much time for our for our internal selves to to

1144
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 1: settle into that place. Sounds like, yeah, so they you know,

1145
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 1: when your first you think about it, when you go

1146
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 1: out into go camping for a handful of days, it's

1147
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 1: like the first day, you're going, did I leave the

1148
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 1: garage open um ship? Am I going to have too

1149
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,960
Speaker 1: many emails? When I get home up? All the stress

1150
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 1: of getting ready, getting settled in figuring out what you're

1151
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 1: doing totally second day you're a little bit calmer, but

1152
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 1: you're still there. But then by the third day something

1153
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 1: clicks where you're just a lot calmer. Now. One of

1154
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: the most fascinating things about all this nature search, and

1155
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: this goes from the bottom of the pyramid twenty minutes

1156
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: a day, three days a week to the very top,

1157
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 1: is if you use your cell phone, it cancels a

1158
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: lot of these benefits because you are dragging yourself back

1159
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: into you're dragging yourself out of the ability to get

1160
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: into those alpha waves that I mentioned, and you're also

1161
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:21,439
Speaker 1: just putting yourself back in this this grind of home. Right,

1162
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 1: you're not folks, You're not looking at the nature around you.

1163
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 1: You're staring at a screen. And you could look at

1164
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 1: a screen any damn place in the country at any time.

1165
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 1: It's like if you're gonna be a nature enjoy the nature, man,

1166
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 1: put your phone down. Yeah, that's it. That's the one

1167
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 1: that throughout all these things, that's that's always my hardest

1168
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:45,520
Speaker 1: one that I'm just trying to trying to find the

1169
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 1: ways to to make my stupid monkey brain cooperate with

1170
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 1: what I know what's right. Yeah, And it's it's like

1171
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 1: in your book you talk about all the people who

1172
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 1: have you know, helped us preserve nature in the US.

1173
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: It's like, all these people really knew this to the court, right,

1174
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 1: they knew this, and so they acted on it. And

1175
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 1: only now a hundred years later, whatever it is, are

1176
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 1: we having the data to back this up? Like, damn,

1177
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 1: come your thorough William Pull, Bob Marshall, all these guys

1178
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 1: they knew in advance what was going on, and they

1179
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: acted on this without having all needing all this data.

1180
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 1: And man, we're lucky for it, right, Yeah, thank goodness.

1181
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: And you would think that now that we do have

1182
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: all this data, it should make it should make our

1183
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 1: our work to keep these places around that much easier.

1184
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 1: Folks should listen because there's quantifiable benefits to it. But

1185
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes that doesn't hold up as much as

1186
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 1: you like. But I do think, I do think that

1187
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 1: this wave of new research around it is going to

1188
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 1: is going to lead to, you know, just another feather

1189
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 1: in the cap of the importance of having wild, open places,

1190
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 1: having parks, having public lands, having green spaces and cities.

1191
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 1: I think, you know, we we live in a civilization

1192
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:05,439
Speaker 1: and a capitalistic society that thrives off data. We want

1193
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 1: data to prove everything, and and so now we've got

1194
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 1: it on this front, and I'm glad it is in

1195
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 1: line with what I have felt, felt and wanted, right Yeah,

1196
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 1: and then yeah, so what about the next one, which

1197
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 1: is hunger? This is one that that I wouldn't have

1198
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: if I was looking at the title of this book

1199
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: and I could have predicted a few of these, I

1200
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 1: think hunger wasn't one of the wasn't one of the

1201
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: topics that I would have jumped on right away. Um,

1202
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:33,120
Speaker 1: what what did you learn on that front? Why do

1203
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 1: we need to embrace hunger a little bit more than

1204
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:40,479
Speaker 1: maybe we have historically? Sure, so when we were out

1205
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 1: in the Arctic, I mean, we packed in maybe two

1206
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 1: thousand calories a day, and you know, garbage, mountain house

1207
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 1: meals and snickers and that kind of crap. Um. But

1208
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: because we're carrying these heavy packs on our back and

1209
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 1: walking through the tundra, which is the worst thing you

1210
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 1: could ever walk on. I mean, it just so harsh

1211
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 1: to walk on. Um, we're burning way more than that,

1212
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 1: I mean, probably four to six thousand calories a day,

1213
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 1: so every single day we're starting to tap into our

1214
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 1: reserves and starting to lose weight. I mean I started

1215
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 1: to pull notches on my belt after you know, about

1216
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 1: a week. And it was interesting because in the modern world,

1217
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 1: we're not like I hadn't experienced that type of hunger ever,

1218
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 1: which is a good which is a good thing. I'm

1219
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 1: not saying it's bad, but it was just this new

1220
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 1: new sensation. I was like, man, like, I've never really

1221
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:35,800
Speaker 1: I never really felt this. So I get home and

1222
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 1: look at the data, and it shows that of the

1223
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 1: times that we eat nowadays are not driven by real

1224
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 1: physiological hunger. It's usually we just eat because it's you know, morning,

1225
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 1: and this is when we breakfast, or this is when

1226
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 1: we launched dinner, or because we're stressed, or because we're sad,

1227
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 1: or because we're just bored, and it's like, okay, I'll

1228
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 1: eat something. So in a lot of ways because of

1229
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 1: our success as species that we have food everywhere. We're

1230
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 1: now using food as sort of a widget, and there

1231
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:07,360
Speaker 1: are there are neurological reasons for that. You know, as

1232
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:10,280
Speaker 1: we evolved, our bodies evolved to essentially reward us for

1233
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: any and all kind of eating, and it also rewarded

1234
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:17,280
Speaker 1: us for eating too much, because back when resources were scarce,

1235
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:19,960
Speaker 1: if you could eat too much and you could put

1236
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: on fat, well, next time a famine came around, which

1237
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 1: was often back then, you would have enough resource resources

1238
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 1: on your body to draw from and you would be

1239
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 1: able to survive. So we are internally incentivized to eat

1240
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 1: too much too often, and now we're surrounded in this

1241
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: sea of food that's all you know, formulated, ultra processed,

1242
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 1: and we tend to think that, you know, hunger is

1243
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:49,760
Speaker 1: bad in the modern world. It's like people panic around hunger.

1244
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:54,959
Speaker 1: And all of this comes together and can explain why

1245
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:59,360
Speaker 1: our country is either overweight or obese. It's that we

1246
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 1: have the internal drives to eat all the time and

1247
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 1: eat too much, and now we're surrounding ourselves in food,

1248
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 1: and you know, millions to combat this. It's like millions

1249
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 1: of people try to diet each year, And there's all

1250
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:14,920
Speaker 1: kinds of diets out there that sort of tell you,

1251
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 1: you know, eat this, not that, or it's like sugar

1252
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 1: is the reason you're fat. Stop eating sugar. Fat is

1253
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:23,160
Speaker 1: the reason you're fat. Stop eating fat. No, it's actually

1254
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 1: carves is the reason you're fats. Stop as your fat,

1255
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 1: stop eating carves. You know. Um, And most of these

1256
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:32,439
Speaker 1: diets fail. You look at diets, I think only I

1257
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 1: think people who lose any weight in a year, they

1258
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 1: gain it back, which is which is unfortunate. And in

1259
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:41,240
Speaker 1: a lot of these diets, it's like a key claim

1260
01:08:41,320 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 1: is is no hunger. So I'm thinking about this, and

1261
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 1: when I get back from Alaska, I'm ten pounds lighter. Um.

1262
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:50,439
Speaker 1: And I'm also eating like all the foods that the

1263
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 1: diets tell you never to eat. I mean, this stuff

1264
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 1: is like ultra processed garbage. I mean it is just

1265
01:08:56,640 --> 01:09:00,840
Speaker 1: horseship food. No, no dietitian is pers grabbing mountain house

1266
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 1: meals for their clients, That's for sure. God, I hope

1267
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 1: not um two millions assault Yeah, yeah, enough salt to

1268
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 1: uh to like petrify someone from the inside out. So

1269
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm ten pounds lighter. And you know through

1270
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 1: my work, I had uh met this kid whose name

1271
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:24,240
Speaker 1: is Trevor Cashy. And to say that Trevor is smart

1272
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 1: is a lot like saying Lebron James is pretty good

1273
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:30,799
Speaker 1: at basketball. Um, this kid is like a super genius.

1274
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:33,519
Speaker 1: I think he's twenty seven or twenty eight now. He

1275
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:36,679
Speaker 1: graduated college at eighteen. He got his PhD at twenty three.

1276
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:40,720
Speaker 1: He studied chemical biology. So this is like the this

1277
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:45,639
Speaker 1: provides a foundation for understanding human metabolism. And he's sort

1278
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:48,720
Speaker 1: of got into he sort of stumbled into working with

1279
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 1: people to help them lose weight. Now he's worked with athletes,

1280
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 1: gold medal winning athletes, UFC fighters, ultra marathoners, all these

1281
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:02,600
Speaker 1: different people, and he approaches it really differently than I

1282
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 1: think you see a lot in the diet world approach it.

1283
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 1: And he sort of starts with hunger. So you look

1284
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 1: back at that figure I told you of the time

1285
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:14,920
Speaker 1: we eat. It's not because we're actually hungry, it's just

1286
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 1: because we're using food is a mechanism for for something

1287
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:20,800
Speaker 1: else to deal with something else. So he doesn't actually

1288
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 1: care why you eat, or sorry, I misstated that he

1289
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:26,800
Speaker 1: doesn't care what you eat. He cares why you eat,

1290
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 1: so a lot of his method is building awareness about

1291
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:33,840
Speaker 1: why people are eating, whether it's true physiological hunger or

1292
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:36,599
Speaker 1: they're just using food as something else. And a lot

1293
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:39,679
Speaker 1: of it is increasing awareness of just how much people eat,

1294
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 1: because we have these past past drives that are telling us, hey,

1295
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:46,639
Speaker 1: eat a little more, eat too much, but we eat

1296
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 1: more than we actually need to in order to be healthy.

1297
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:52,599
Speaker 1: So part of what he does is he has people

1298
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 1: like very closely track exactly what they're eating. And now

1299
01:10:56,520 --> 01:11:00,240
Speaker 1: this sounds strange, but at the same time, when you

1300
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 1: look at the research, people totally underestimate the amount they

1301
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 1: eat every day. So when they pull people it's like

1302
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 1: how many colores did you think you? You know, people

1303
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:13,639
Speaker 1: will be like they have eaten like three thousand and

1304
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:18,720
Speaker 1: over time, this compounds and this is this can kind

1305
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:23,800
Speaker 1: of explain why we are so out of shape now.

1306
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 1: And this is uh, I mean, this is kind of

1307
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:28,719
Speaker 1: one of the main drivers of a lot of chronic disease,

1308
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:31,400
Speaker 1: just the fact that so many people in the country

1309
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 1: are overweight now. So sort of by figuring out why

1310
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:39,639
Speaker 1: you're eating, whether that is real hungry hunger, and then

1311
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 1: engaging with hunger, realizing that it sucks, but it's not

1312
01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 1: going to kill you, and it's actually a necessary part

1313
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:49,640
Speaker 1: of being healthy. You're gonna be able to maintain a

1314
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 1: weight that's going to keep you healthy, and you're just

1315
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 1: gonna be healthier overall across your lifespan. So if you're

1316
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 1: if you're a guy or girl out there who's listening

1317
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 1: and your wanting to live a healthier lifestyle, which which

1318
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 1: a lot of people in our community, I think, are

1319
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 1: you know, wanting to do that, especially if hunting in

1320
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:09,280
Speaker 1: the outdoors is a big part of their life, if

1321
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:13,720
Speaker 1: they're not already in you know, great physical shape. It's

1322
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:15,639
Speaker 1: something that a lot of folks want to work towards

1323
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 1: because that helps you a lot in all these endeavors. Um.

1324
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 1: So what's like your big what's one of your big

1325
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:24,840
Speaker 1: takeaways from your deep dive into this world? You know

1326
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 1: when I get that feeling like, oh, I'm feeling hungry?

1327
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 1: Um And you're saying we should embrace it a little

1328
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:33,800
Speaker 1: bit more Like, what's what's an action item we should

1329
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 1: be thinking about that's gonna help us a little bit

1330
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:38,360
Speaker 1: more on that front? Sure? Well, I think I think

1331
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 1: one thing is thinking about what foods we eat? Now,

1332
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:43,479
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, being in a healthy

1333
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:46,280
Speaker 1: way is all driven by are you eating enough energy

1334
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 1: to fuel your body and what you want to do,

1335
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:51,639
Speaker 1: but not vastly overheating that amount. You know, it's essentially

1336
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:55,559
Speaker 1: it's physics, it's calories and calories out. Despite what all

1337
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 1: these diet books tell you about, you know, they're being

1338
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 1: a super villain among foods. Um. But that said, certain

1339
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:07,920
Speaker 1: foods will help you feel fuller longer and fend off hunger.

1340
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:10,880
Speaker 1: And those foods just so happened to be the foods

1341
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:16,240
Speaker 1: that man evolved to eat. These are you know, meat, potatoes,

1342
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:20,000
Speaker 1: grains that we have to cook beforehand. These are all

1343
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:23,680
Speaker 1: things that help people stay fuller longer. And this is

1344
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:26,519
Speaker 1: not a diet that's you know, high carb or low carb,

1345
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:28,800
Speaker 1: or high fat or low fat or high protein. It's

1346
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:31,920
Speaker 1: just like the food that you're great great grandparents eight.

1347
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:34,760
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a reason why no one in the

1348
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:37,720
Speaker 1: generations before I think the obesity rate in the year

1349
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 1: ND was like one or two percent, and now it's

1350
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 1: thirty three. And it's because people are eating just basic

1351
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 1: foods and not over eating them. They help curb hunger.

1352
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:49,320
Speaker 1: But in terms of re engaging with hunger. I mean,

1353
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 1: I think something that people can do is even try like,

1354
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:57,040
Speaker 1: are you actually hungry when you wake up and eat breakfast?

1355
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:00,720
Speaker 1: Can you extend that what happens? Does that feel like?

1356
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 1: You know, sort of just putting these just experimenting with like, well,

1357
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:07,000
Speaker 1: well why am I eating? And noticing? You know you

1358
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 1: mentioned before. It's like when your grandma brings over those cookies,

1359
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 1: it's like, you're just gonna eat them because they're there,

1360
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 1: you know, So if that's a temptation for you removing them.

1361
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 1: That's not saying that's not to say you can't eat

1362
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 1: those foods. It's totally fine, but maybe have one or

1363
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 1: two and then throw them away if that's a trigger,

1364
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 1: you know. And this is this is hard. If this

1365
01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:31,880
Speaker 1: ship were easy, people wouldn't be overweight. But it's it's necessary, right.

1366
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:33,599
Speaker 1: It's like when you when you look at how we're

1367
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:37,000
Speaker 1: trending and and they do forecasts on this and they

1368
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:39,879
Speaker 1: think that, um, I think the CDC thinks that overweighting

1369
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:42,160
Speaker 1: obcd RAG is going to be in the eighties. B

1370
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:46,360
Speaker 1: So man, it's something we got to tackle. I mean,

1371
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 1: and I think we've really this is really hit home

1372
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:53,519
Speaker 1: during the pandemic. It's you know, you look at the

1373
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:55,880
Speaker 1: research and it's like the people who had who got

1374
01:14:55,960 --> 01:15:00,080
Speaker 1: COVID and had some of the worst symptoms being being

1375
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 1: obese was a major risk factor for complications. And you

1376
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:05,880
Speaker 1: know through my other work, Like I had a conversation

1377
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 1: with someone at the CDC about a month ago, and

1378
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:10,720
Speaker 1: usually they're pretty hands out, like they don't want to

1379
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 1: tell people, hey, you gotta get in shape because you know,

1380
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:16,120
Speaker 1: people don't like hearing that, so they've never really said

1381
01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 1: anything like that to me. But this time the lady

1382
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 1: was like, people need to go to the gym. I

1383
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:25,639
Speaker 1: was like, wow, coming from the government, so interesting. Yeah,

1384
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 1: it's um. It definitely was a little bit of self

1385
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:35,479
Speaker 1: perpetuating cycle too with the whole COVID deal, and that

1386
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:38,080
Speaker 1: probably not in a larger scale, but as you I

1387
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:39,640
Speaker 1: think you mentioned in your book, and I think a

1388
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 1: lot of of us experienced it. There was like the

1389
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 1: COVID fifteen. A lot of folks, you know, I certainly

1390
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:47,680
Speaker 1: experienced that when we first had the lockdown start and

1391
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:51,679
Speaker 1: everything shuts down and your life changes and couldn't do anything,

1392
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:53,880
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, it was like, well, what

1393
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 1: are we gonna do. That's exciting this weekend. Let's make

1394
01:15:56,040 --> 01:15:59,799
Speaker 1: chocolate mug cakes. And it was that kind of stuff

1395
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:02,240
Speaker 1: that I'm sure a lot of people packed on some

1396
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:05,519
Speaker 1: extra weight because they were, you know, just in this weird,

1397
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:09,519
Speaker 1: weird situation. So and also, food gets used a lot

1398
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:12,519
Speaker 1: to deal with stress, and because of all these other

1399
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 1: things we've talked about, I think people have more stress

1400
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:17,320
Speaker 1: than we have in the past for a lot of reasons,

1401
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 1: and food is just an easy way to deal with that.

1402
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 1: It's kind of like cheap, always available as annex and

1403
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:25,679
Speaker 1: so yeah, and then that that would explain it, because

1404
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:30,800
Speaker 1: the pandemic was freaking stressful. Yeah. Yeah, So so let's

1405
01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:33,400
Speaker 1: let's skip to We're gonna change a little order of

1406
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:36,719
Speaker 1: your book here. But it's the natural I think. Next question,

1407
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:39,719
Speaker 1: when we're talking about health, at least we've talked about

1408
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:42,160
Speaker 1: the food we eat. But then, of course, you know,

1409
01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:46,640
Speaker 1: just exercise. You mentioned exercise is uncomfortable. Physical activity in

1410
01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 1: a lot of ways can be uncomfortable. You know, long

1411
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:54,280
Speaker 1: endurance events, things that push you are uncomfortable. Um. But

1412
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:56,559
Speaker 1: as has been the case of all these things, these

1413
01:16:56,600 --> 01:17:01,080
Speaker 1: discomforts do have benefits to um. What about on on

1414
01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:03,880
Speaker 1: this front, did you find most interesting and most eye opening,

1415
01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:06,599
Speaker 1: because a lot of this stuff I think is like, yeah,

1416
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:09,160
Speaker 1: we know this stuff, but I think you uncover some

1417
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:12,680
Speaker 1: interesting things here. Yeah, I would say most interesting to

1418
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:15,720
Speaker 1: not you know, we all know that exercise is good

1419
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:18,599
Speaker 1: for us. Um, the data is I mean, the data

1420
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:20,680
Speaker 1: is really fascinating. And it could just be because I'm

1421
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 1: a freaking nerd, but you look at it and fitnesses

1422
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:27,080
Speaker 1: like the number one way to avoid the top killers

1423
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 1: of humans now I mean full stop, um. But I

1424
01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 1: think what I found personally most interesting when I was

1425
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:38,360
Speaker 1: up in Alaska, It's like everything takes effort, right, It's

1426
01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:41,439
Speaker 1: like every single thing you do takes some sort of effort.

1427
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:43,240
Speaker 1: You go back into the modern world and you're like,

1428
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 1: oh my god, nothing takes effort. I mean when we're

1429
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:49,840
Speaker 1: in the Arctic, it's like even getting water, we have

1430
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 1: to hike down to the freaking river, which is you know,

1431
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:54,559
Speaker 1: we saw grizzly there earlier in the day, so you're

1432
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:56,880
Speaker 1: on edge and then you have to hike this you know,

1433
01:17:57,080 --> 01:18:00,400
Speaker 1: bag of water back up that's thirty forty pounds whatever. Ways,

1434
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:03,240
Speaker 1: that's just for water. I mean, even like going out

1435
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:07,360
Speaker 1: to the bathroom. You know that takes effort um But

1436
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:13,040
Speaker 1: I would say the absolute hardest thing that I did

1437
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:17,759
Speaker 1: in Alaska was the pack out of the animal. And

1438
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:21,479
Speaker 1: it was a hundred pounds or so on our on

1439
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:26,920
Speaker 1: my pack and we had five miles to go all uphill.

1440
01:18:27,479 --> 01:18:32,200
Speaker 1: Sort of karma right there back to camp. And you know,

1441
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 1: my background being at Men's Health and outside like i've been,

1442
01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 1: my my job has forced me to do a lot

1443
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:41,400
Speaker 1: of physical things. Now I'm not saying that I'm like

1444
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:44,200
Speaker 1: the world's best athlete at the end of the day,

1445
01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:46,519
Speaker 1: I'm a gangly writer who sits at the desk most

1446
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:51,680
Speaker 1: of the day, the choir right here, But like, I've

1447
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:55,600
Speaker 1: done some stuff, you know, and it was just the

1448
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:59,120
Speaker 1: hardest thing I've ever done. And what's so interesting is,

1449
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:03,080
Speaker 1: I mean that was life for our ancestors a couple

1450
01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:05,800
Speaker 1: hundred years ago, three hundred years ago. What I mean

1451
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:08,639
Speaker 1: for all of time. Right you look at you look

1452
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:11,360
Speaker 1: at uh cultures who are still hunter gatherers. They are

1453
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:15,760
Speaker 1: fourteen times more physically active than us. We've engineered activity

1454
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:18,960
Speaker 1: out of our life in every way. What I thought

1455
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:22,080
Speaker 1: was interesting, though, is I traveled to Harvard to talk

1456
01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:25,040
Speaker 1: to a guy whose name is Daniel Lieberman, and he's

1457
01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:29,439
Speaker 1: an anthropologist there, and he in two thousand four he

1458
01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:32,800
Speaker 1: did this study where he basically found that the reason

1459
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 1: the human body is built the way it is so

1460
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:40,920
Speaker 1: we could hunt. We would run animals down for miles

1461
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 1: and miles at a time and spear them. And essentially,

1462
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:50,840
Speaker 1: we are really good at long slow endurance events. We're

1463
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:54,520
Speaker 1: terrible athletes in terms of like moving fast, like sprinting

1464
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:59,000
Speaker 1: and lifting heavy things, but we're really good at running long,

1465
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:01,519
Speaker 1: slow distances the heat, and so that's how we would hunt.

1466
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:04,400
Speaker 1: We would do a thing called persistence hunting. Most animals

1467
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:07,840
Speaker 1: are really inefficient at cooling themselves because they pant to

1468
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:11,120
Speaker 1: release heat. So we would run these animals down, say

1469
01:20:11,160 --> 01:20:16,040
Speaker 1: a mile, it would sprint and whatever, get farther away

1470
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:18,080
Speaker 1: from us than we track it, and we bump it again,

1471
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:24,000
Speaker 1: and eventually, after doing this over ten miles, the animal

1472
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:27,840
Speaker 1: would finally just overheat and we would spare it. And

1473
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 1: then what we would do next, though, is carry it

1474
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 1: back to camp. And that's something that his paper didn't

1475
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:37,080
Speaker 1: talk about, and so that's what I wanted to talk

1476
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:39,920
Speaker 1: to him about, and I went up to his lab

1477
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:42,160
Speaker 1: and we talked a bit about how we evolved to run.

1478
01:20:42,240 --> 01:20:45,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it explains why we have these long legs

1479
01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:48,599
Speaker 1: and why we sweat where we don't have a lot

1480
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:51,360
Speaker 1: of fur on our bodies. But then I asked him

1481
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:53,960
Speaker 1: about carrying, because once we kill an animal, it's like

1482
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:55,920
Speaker 1: you've got to carry it back to camp, or if

1483
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:58,360
Speaker 1: the animal is just too heavy to carry, you gotta

1484
01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:03,080
Speaker 1: carry camp to the animal. And he was studying that

1485
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:05,519
Speaker 1: right at that moment. He was like, Oh, it's funny

1486
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:09,880
Speaker 1: you say that. I just started researching this, you know, like, oh, man, crazy,

1487
01:21:10,080 --> 01:21:15,200
Speaker 1: And carrying explains why we have really strong hands relative

1488
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 1: to the rest of our bodies, why our torsos are

1489
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:21,679
Speaker 1: generally short, and we are the only animals that can

1490
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:24,799
Speaker 1: carry efficiently. There's no other animals that can carry stuff

1491
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:28,519
Speaker 1: and move it from point A to point B. So uh,

1492
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:32,360
Speaker 1: I argue, and Lieberman would also argue that the acts

1493
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:36,519
Speaker 1: of running and carrying are very unique to humans. It's

1494
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:40,360
Speaker 1: what we evolved to be physically good at, and they

1495
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:44,759
Speaker 1: are sort of uniquely beneficial for us from an exercise standpoint. Now,

1496
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:48,439
Speaker 1: everyone a lot of people run, right, It's like we

1497
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 1: see runners on the street all the time. But how

1498
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:53,519
Speaker 1: often do you see people just like carrying heavy ship

1499
01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:56,840
Speaker 1: for the act of exercise to improve themselves. You know,

1500
01:21:57,479 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 1: not too often, not too often unless you happened to

1501
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:02,559
Speaker 1: be a hunter. And in that if you live in

1502
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:05,040
Speaker 1: my neighborhood, you've seen a weird dude at five thirty

1503
01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:09,800
Speaker 1: in the morning doing it with a headlamp. But otherwise, yeah, exactly.

1504
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:14,519
Speaker 1: So in the book, I investigate caring and how it's

1505
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 1: this this physical act that really was lost to time

1506
01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:21,600
Speaker 1: that we haven't flowed back in our days like we

1507
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:23,840
Speaker 1: have running, and how it is uniquely good for us.

1508
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:29,080
Speaker 1: So there's only one real group who has uh who's

1509
01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:32,000
Speaker 1: floated back into how they train and it's helped them

1510
01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:35,240
Speaker 1: become the fittest people on earth, and that is Special

1511
01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:39,439
Speaker 1: Forces soldiers. So they call it roucking. Basically, a weighted

1512
01:22:39,479 --> 01:22:43,760
Speaker 1: backpack um Marching with a weighted backpack is like the

1513
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:47,000
Speaker 1: main form of training in the military. Military guys are

1514
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:50,520
Speaker 1: always carrying a weighted pack with you know, AMMO supplies

1515
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:54,400
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. And I know a guy. I

1516
01:22:54,479 --> 01:22:56,840
Speaker 1: met a guy named whose name is Jason McCarthy, and

1517
01:22:56,880 --> 01:22:59,280
Speaker 1: he owns a company called Go Ruck, and they are

1518
01:22:59,320 --> 01:23:03,439
Speaker 1: trying to bring they've made um sort of military spec

1519
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:06,280
Speaker 1: backpacks that can hold a lot of weight, and they're

1520
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:10,360
Speaker 1: trying to bring this idea of of rucking or hiking

1521
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:13,320
Speaker 1: with a weighted pack to the masses. And they've actually

1522
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:16,719
Speaker 1: teamed up with this, these two researchers at the Mayo

1523
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:20,520
Speaker 1: Clinic who are starting to flow this in with their patients.

1524
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:23,679
Speaker 1: When patients come in with heart problems, they don't tell

1525
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:27,160
Speaker 1: them to you know, start lifting weights or to start running.

1526
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:30,840
Speaker 1: They say, hey, walk when that feels good, I want

1527
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:34,000
Speaker 1: you to add a weighted backpack because it has you're

1528
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:37,160
Speaker 1: not only working your endurance, but you're also working your strength,

1529
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:41,759
Speaker 1: and each of those two components are essential for physical

1530
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:45,560
Speaker 1: health but also from a performance standpoint, especially when it

1531
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:48,599
Speaker 1: comes to hunting. I mean that is the foundation of hunting, right.

1532
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:51,559
Speaker 1: It's like you have to hike into these areas with

1533
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:53,960
Speaker 1: heavy stuff on your back, and if you're successful in

1534
01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:56,040
Speaker 1: your hunt, you're gonna be hiking with a lot of

1535
01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:58,600
Speaker 1: meat back. And so I think it's really interesting that

1536
01:23:58,680 --> 01:24:03,840
Speaker 1: modern hunting it's the one thing that brings back this

1537
01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:06,439
Speaker 1: you know, sort of primal form of exercise that we've

1538
01:24:06,479 --> 01:24:10,320
Speaker 1: really lost. Yeah, and and it's funny. It's it is

1539
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:15,760
Speaker 1: if you if you were to pull the majority of

1540
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:19,120
Speaker 1: folks that are pretty serious in the back country hunting

1541
01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:22,200
Speaker 1: world and do this stuff frequently, like that's that's the thing.

1542
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:25,639
Speaker 1: There's always the temptation, just like anything else in physical fitness,

1543
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:28,560
Speaker 1: where people want to, you know, do the glamour exercises

1544
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:31,040
Speaker 1: and make those great big pecks and biceps and all

1545
01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:33,240
Speaker 1: that stuff. But you talk to the folks that that

1546
01:24:33,320 --> 01:24:36,280
Speaker 1: really do this stuff, it's man hike with a heavy

1547
01:24:36,320 --> 01:24:38,760
Speaker 1: pack and do it a lot, and do it at elevation,

1548
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:43,519
Speaker 1: and like that's it's not sexy, it's not fancy. Uh,

1549
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:44,760
Speaker 1: it's not gonna get you on the cover of a

1550
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:48,599
Speaker 1: magazine maybe, but it just does the trick. It's it's

1551
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:51,000
Speaker 1: it's what you need for this activity. And it's really

1552
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:53,400
Speaker 1: interesting that what you've found is that it's not only

1553
01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:55,920
Speaker 1: what you need to be a good back country hunter,

1554
01:24:56,000 --> 01:24:58,599
Speaker 1: it's what you need to just be a healthy, fully

1555
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:01,960
Speaker 1: actualized human being because of how we evolved. That that

1556
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 1: is fascinating. Yeah, and so there's a lot of military

1557
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:11,679
Speaker 1: The military is obviously invested in knowing about carrying loads

1558
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:13,680
Speaker 1: because it's what their soldiers do and they want to

1559
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:16,840
Speaker 1: reduce injury rates, and they've basically found that any load

1560
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:20,439
Speaker 1: up to about fifty pounds, it's pretty safe. Once you

1561
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:24,160
Speaker 1: start going over fifty in training, you can it increases

1562
01:25:24,160 --> 01:25:26,920
Speaker 1: your risk of injury enough that you might want to

1563
01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:29,160
Speaker 1: dial back. So in the book, I talked about like,

1564
01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:32,639
Speaker 1: you know, probably for the average guy, it's like between

1565
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:35,639
Speaker 1: thirty and fifty pounds is a sweet spot. Um, if

1566
01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:39,400
Speaker 1: you're smaller, if you're a female, probably between like twenty

1567
01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:42,439
Speaker 1: and thirty is probably a sweet spot. But man, you

1568
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:45,960
Speaker 1: get so many benefits off of that. And to your

1569
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:48,280
Speaker 1: point about, you know, show muscles. I was talking to

1570
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:50,480
Speaker 1: a guide when I was up in Alaska, and he

1571
01:25:50,479 --> 01:25:54,040
Speaker 1: talked about he's had clients, you know, send him photos

1572
01:25:54,040 --> 01:25:56,160
Speaker 1: from the gym and their you know, bodybuilding and they

1573
01:25:56,200 --> 01:25:57,920
Speaker 1: just look amazing. And they'll text and be like, hey,

1574
01:25:57,960 --> 01:26:01,160
Speaker 1: you know, I have been more days to the haunt.

1575
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:04,920
Speaker 1: I'm getting ready, And those guys will get out there

1576
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:07,120
Speaker 1: and get a heavy pack on and they're just like,

1577
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:09,439
Speaker 1: oh my god, like I can't do this, and no

1578
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:13,599
Speaker 1: quit because it's the training hasn't been right, you know.

1579
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:16,000
Speaker 1: It's like a lot of times in my mind I

1580
01:26:16,040 --> 01:26:17,960
Speaker 1: think that a lot of what we do in the gym.

1581
01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:20,040
Speaker 1: It is obviously good for us and that it helps

1582
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:23,080
Speaker 1: our heart and that it has these benefits, but I

1583
01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:27,360
Speaker 1: don't think it's optimal more or less. Uh So, since

1584
01:26:27,439 --> 01:26:31,040
Speaker 1: you do a lot of this, UM, at least, I

1585
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:33,000
Speaker 1: think you have looked into some of these things when

1586
01:26:33,040 --> 01:26:39,360
Speaker 1: it comes to optimizing your physical fitness plans and regiments,

1587
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:42,200
Speaker 1: and through this research you've done. Talk to me a

1588
01:26:42,240 --> 01:26:45,160
Speaker 1: little bit about and this is selfish because I'm trying

1589
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:49,240
Speaker 1: to figure this out for myself right now, UM balancing

1590
01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:55,400
Speaker 1: these physical endurance and exercise type periods with rest. So yeah,

1591
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:57,120
Speaker 1: you know, I've gotten to a sweet spot where I

1592
01:26:57,160 --> 01:26:59,280
Speaker 1: do a daily run every morning. I start my day

1593
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:00,760
Speaker 1: with a run, and I feels great. I get that

1594
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:03,759
Speaker 1: runners high, and it might be miserable in the moment sometimes,

1595
01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:06,160
Speaker 1: but I'm always glad I did it. UM. But I'm

1596
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:08,200
Speaker 1: trying to rant that up more and more and and

1597
01:27:08,280 --> 01:27:11,840
Speaker 1: now realizing the need like to have rest periods, and

1598
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:15,559
Speaker 1: I think, I think, gosh, what's his name? Another writer

1599
01:27:15,640 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 1: for Outside UM has talked to He wrote peak Performance.

1600
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:24,160
Speaker 1: Uh they talked about this is the formula for growth

1601
01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:27,600
Speaker 1: is stress plus rest. So you have to apply a

1602
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:30,439
Speaker 1: stress to get growth, but then you need that rest

1603
01:27:30,520 --> 01:27:33,200
Speaker 1: period to allow the growth to happen. And this this

1604
01:27:33,240 --> 01:27:36,320
Speaker 1: could apply to mental growth or in this case physical

1605
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:39,519
Speaker 1: UM fitness. So you need the stress of that run

1606
01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:42,320
Speaker 1: or that rocking or whatever, but you also need some

1607
01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:46,840
Speaker 1: kind of rest period to allow your body to regenerate. Um.

1608
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:50,080
Speaker 1: Could you balance something like a long distance running and

1609
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:52,360
Speaker 1: rucking every other day that kind of thing? Is that

1610
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:55,799
Speaker 1: getting you rest because you're changing the type of stress?

1611
01:27:56,400 --> 01:27:59,200
Speaker 1: Or do you think that you really need you know,

1612
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:04,240
Speaker 1: for no questions asked, rest where you do nothing or

1613
01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:08,559
Speaker 1: you switch to a totally different type of exercise. Um.

1614
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:11,720
Speaker 1: That might be outside this conversation, but just popped in

1615
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:14,400
Speaker 1: my head. No, No, And I think there's I mean

1616
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:16,479
Speaker 1: a lot of there's a lot of different ways to

1617
01:28:16,520 --> 01:28:19,519
Speaker 1: view this, and different people would might view it differently.

1618
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:23,120
Speaker 1: But I think generally from my work, I've noticed that

1619
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 1: most people will recommend at least one day of dedicated

1620
01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 1: rest a week. And I don't mean like sit on

1621
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:32,240
Speaker 1: the couch and smash funions all day, but like, you

1622
01:28:32,280 --> 01:28:34,479
Speaker 1: know you're you're not working out that day, you go

1623
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:37,280
Speaker 1: for a walk. That's totally fine. Walks can be restorative.

1624
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:42,120
Speaker 1: I do think it's good to mix up um day

1625
01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:45,080
Speaker 1: to day the type of exercise you're doing. So you know,

1626
01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:47,320
Speaker 1: if you were to go for a long run on Monday,

1627
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:50,920
Speaker 1: maybe don't go for a long run on Tuesday, or

1628
01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:53,400
Speaker 1: make it shorter or throw in strength work. I mean

1629
01:28:53,720 --> 01:28:56,840
Speaker 1: we know that as humans, of all they were doing.

1630
01:28:57,479 --> 01:29:00,000
Speaker 1: UM endurance is what we I think really of all

1631
01:29:00,120 --> 01:29:03,200
Speaker 1: for most anthropologists would argue, so it's sort of uniquely

1632
01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:06,519
Speaker 1: good for us. UM, we didn't evolve to be that strong.

1633
01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:09,360
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that strength training isn't good for

1634
01:29:09,479 --> 01:29:12,439
Speaker 1: us and can't actually help us be better at our

1635
01:29:12,520 --> 01:29:15,880
Speaker 1: endurance work and also be more I guess I would

1636
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:20,240
Speaker 1: say resistant to injury when we're out in the field. Also,

1637
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:25,240
Speaker 1: a movement is important. Nowadays we sit in chairs on

1638
01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:27,759
Speaker 1: desks all day, were slumped over keyboards, and our movement

1639
01:29:27,760 --> 01:29:30,680
Speaker 1: patterns are not what they used to be. I mean,

1640
01:29:30,680 --> 01:29:33,760
Speaker 1: you go to countries that are a little more uncomfortable,

1641
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:36,080
Speaker 1: and it's like everyone can perfectly sit in the squat

1642
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:38,280
Speaker 1: for as long as they want. It's like you test

1643
01:29:38,280 --> 01:29:41,519
Speaker 1: the average American. The average American can't squad because we've

1644
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:44,479
Speaker 1: just were so adapted to chairs. So thinking, so I

1645
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:47,439
Speaker 1: sort of see the three pillars as endurance, strength, and

1646
01:29:48,120 --> 01:29:50,240
Speaker 1: the ability to move. I mean I can tell you

1647
01:29:50,240 --> 01:29:53,479
Speaker 1: in my own UM, training for this kind of stuff

1648
01:29:54,400 --> 01:29:58,120
Speaker 1: all maybe lift weights and not like bodybuilding style, more

1649
01:29:58,800 --> 01:30:01,639
Speaker 1: more working the pattern, and that the body was built

1650
01:30:01,680 --> 01:30:06,560
Speaker 1: to do things like uh squats, you know, overhead presses,

1651
01:30:07,120 --> 01:30:12,040
Speaker 1: um planks, carrying heavyweights. You know. Two times a week, UM,

1652
01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:14,920
Speaker 1: I'll do an endurance we I'll maybe go for two runs,

1653
01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:19,200
Speaker 1: one pretty long, and then I'll usually rock a day

1654
01:30:19,280 --> 01:30:21,080
Speaker 1: or two, and then I'll have a day that's just

1655
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:24,439
Speaker 1: dedicated to movement, and before every workout, I'll just make

1656
01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:26,599
Speaker 1: sure that I'm moving in the right way by doing

1657
01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:29,240
Speaker 1: a handful of different stretches. And so I think thinking

1658
01:30:29,280 --> 01:30:31,640
Speaker 1: about your yourself in terms of like how can I

1659
01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:36,400
Speaker 1: have as much exercise variability where I'm doing a lot

1660
01:30:36,439 --> 01:30:39,080
Speaker 1: of different things is going to help you be more

1661
01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:42,960
Speaker 1: robust instead of just focusing on on one thing when

1662
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:45,639
Speaker 1: you go down one rabbit hole. Um, you can obviously

1663
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:48,080
Speaker 1: get very good at that. You look at professional runners,

1664
01:30:48,280 --> 01:30:50,320
Speaker 1: I mean, like a marathon runner. All they do is run,

1665
01:30:50,439 --> 01:30:52,759
Speaker 1: but they're going for that. But that's not necessarily healthy

1666
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:55,920
Speaker 1: or good for the average person right there, basically giving

1667
01:30:56,000 --> 01:30:58,080
Speaker 1: up health in order to be a sort of freak

1668
01:30:58,080 --> 01:31:01,320
Speaker 1: at this one end of the spectrum. Interesting. Yeah, that

1669
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:04,759
Speaker 1: makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. I guess

1670
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:08,000
Speaker 1: that brings us to the final themes in your book,

1671
01:31:08,320 --> 01:31:13,400
Speaker 1: which is, um, again right in line with something that

1672
01:31:13,439 --> 01:31:16,840
Speaker 1: I think every hunter has had to confront, which is

1673
01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:22,559
Speaker 1: getting comfortable with with mortality, with death. Um, whether that

1674
01:31:22,640 --> 01:31:26,160
Speaker 1: be your own or otherwise. UM, what was your journey

1675
01:31:26,200 --> 01:31:31,000
Speaker 1: like when it comes to that. Yeah, so we had

1676
01:31:31,040 --> 01:31:35,599
Speaker 1: been up there for too maybe we can have two

1677
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:37,800
Speaker 1: weeks and we've been scounked to time, and we've seen

1678
01:31:37,840 --> 01:31:41,559
Speaker 1: some caribou been scunked a bunch, and it's interesting. When

1679
01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:43,880
Speaker 1: Donnie invited me on the hunt, he was like, you

1680
01:31:43,960 --> 01:31:46,439
Speaker 1: can hunt, and I my first answer was no, I'm

1681
01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:48,439
Speaker 1: a journalist, like, I don't want to get too involved

1682
01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:52,519
Speaker 1: in the story, and he was and he replied, okay, man,

1683
01:31:52,560 --> 01:31:54,519
Speaker 1: but you know, I think you'd really understand what we

1684
01:31:54,600 --> 01:31:57,400
Speaker 1: come up here for a lot more if you were

1685
01:31:57,400 --> 01:32:00,479
Speaker 1: to hunt. And you know, I trusted them on that,

1686
01:32:00,760 --> 01:32:03,040
Speaker 1: and I decided I was going to do it, but

1687
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:05,599
Speaker 1: I still had a lot of reservations. I was like, okay,

1688
01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:08,400
Speaker 1: I think I will, but you know, we'll see. So

1689
01:32:08,439 --> 01:32:11,240
Speaker 1: we've been sitting on this hill glassing for so long,

1690
01:32:11,600 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 1: and finally we get in a position where we see

1691
01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:20,759
Speaker 1: these caribou on this opposite hill and there's two old

1692
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:23,800
Speaker 1: bulls in there, and they start kind of moving down

1693
01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:27,519
Speaker 1: this valley towards this saddle that drops down into another valley,

1694
01:32:27,680 --> 01:32:32,000
Speaker 1: and you know, Donnie was like, hey, if we knuke

1695
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:34,960
Speaker 1: along this hill, go get to that saddle before them

1696
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:36,640
Speaker 1: and then sort of cut over, we might be in

1697
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:41,080
Speaker 1: a good position. So here we go, and you know,

1698
01:32:41,160 --> 01:32:45,040
Speaker 1: I'm up there to hunt, but I'm I'm reticent about

1699
01:32:45,120 --> 01:32:47,519
Speaker 1: hunting the whole time because I'm carrying this, you know,

1700
01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:50,160
Speaker 1: the rifle across the time draw. I'm just like, oh, man,

1701
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:55,600
Speaker 1: I might actually have to use this thing, like yeah, um,

1702
01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:59,519
Speaker 1: I've always eaten meat of Americans? Do I think? Is

1703
01:32:59,520 --> 01:33:01,880
Speaker 1: this the a stick? But I didn't really I don't

1704
01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:03,960
Speaker 1: know if I wanted to cross that sort of what

1705
01:33:04,040 --> 01:33:10,040
Speaker 1: I assumed would be this you know, emotional barrier, and um,

1706
01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:12,280
Speaker 1: I just wasn't sure if I wanted to go there.

1707
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:16,519
Speaker 1: But we make it across the saddle, we hit the

1708
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:20,479
Speaker 1: ground on the tundra and we start, um, you know,

1709
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:23,920
Speaker 1: belly crawling into where we think these caribou we're gonna

1710
01:33:24,160 --> 01:33:26,920
Speaker 1: gonna come. And we get two hundred yards we stopped.

1711
01:33:27,120 --> 01:33:33,360
Speaker 1: Donnie pops up with the with the binoculars. Nothing hit

1712
01:33:33,400 --> 01:33:37,320
Speaker 1: the tundra again. Another hundred yards and I'm looking through

1713
01:33:37,360 --> 01:33:40,800
Speaker 1: the rifle scope. He's looking through the binoculars. We see

1714
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:45,080
Speaker 1: these antlers appear on the apex of the saddle and

1715
01:33:45,120 --> 01:33:48,479
Speaker 1: here they come, and um, there's a herd of I

1716
01:33:48,479 --> 01:33:52,479
Speaker 1: think it was about thirty and we're kind of surveying them.

1717
01:33:52,479 --> 01:33:54,800
Speaker 1: I'm trying to see, you know, which are which are

1718
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:59,519
Speaker 1: the two old bulls and we see this one where

1719
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:02,200
Speaker 1: his aunt is. They're sort of like shifting as he walks,

1720
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:06,879
Speaker 1: and um, he's limping. And it was like Donnie immediately

1721
01:34:06,920 --> 01:34:08,320
Speaker 1: we saw it at the same time, and Donnie just

1722
01:34:08,360 --> 01:34:10,360
Speaker 1: goes that your bowl. That's your bowl. The one that's limping,

1723
01:34:10,439 --> 01:34:13,800
Speaker 1: Like that's it, you know. I'm like, okay. So we're

1724
01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:18,320
Speaker 1: they start you know, walking out, and they get within

1725
01:34:18,880 --> 01:34:21,439
Speaker 1: you know, a hundred fifty yards and then maybe like

1726
01:34:21,479 --> 01:34:24,640
Speaker 1: a hundred and this old bull keeps going in and

1727
01:34:24,680 --> 01:34:27,200
Speaker 1: out of the herd. So I can't get a clean shot.

1728
01:34:27,360 --> 01:34:29,680
Speaker 1: And the whole time I'm I'm like, I'm still not

1729
01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:32,960
Speaker 1: a percent sure if I'm gonna pull the trigger. And

1730
01:34:33,080 --> 01:34:35,720
Speaker 1: they start. They get past the closest point and they

1731
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:39,880
Speaker 1: keep walking and Donnie's like he can see him a

1732
01:34:39,880 --> 01:34:42,720
Speaker 1: little hesitant, you know, and he goes, hey, man, if

1733
01:34:42,720 --> 01:34:44,560
Speaker 1: you don't want to take the shot, you do not

1734
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:47,120
Speaker 1: have to take the shot. But if you're gonna take

1735
01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:50,639
Speaker 1: the shot, you need to take it now. And sort

1736
01:34:50,680 --> 01:34:54,519
Speaker 1: of right after he says that, there's like kind of

1737
01:34:54,520 --> 01:34:57,880
Speaker 1: this clearing and it opens up and that bold it

1738
01:34:58,000 --> 01:35:00,320
Speaker 1: was limping was there, and he just kind of looks

1739
01:35:00,400 --> 01:35:05,519
Speaker 1: up and I pull the trigger. Um, we think it

1740
01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:09,040
Speaker 1: hits him. He's like, shoot again, shoot again, So pull

1741
01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:12,960
Speaker 1: it again. And right after that, I mean the herd

1742
01:35:13,200 --> 01:35:17,280
Speaker 1: spooks right. Caribou to that shot. You know, he hits

1743
01:35:17,320 --> 01:35:21,800
Speaker 1: the ground and I'm thinking, oh my god, there is

1744
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:25,439
Speaker 1: no coming back from this. What have you done? You know,

1745
01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:30,519
Speaker 1: I mean, it hit me pretty heavy. So we walk

1746
01:35:30,640 --> 01:35:35,720
Speaker 1: out there and I start I start seeing the the

1747
01:35:35,760 --> 01:35:38,519
Speaker 1: caribou starts kind of having those spastic leg movements, you know,

1748
01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:40,519
Speaker 1: because the energy is spilling from his body. And I'm

1749
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 1: thinking he's still alive. I'm like, man, I need to

1750
01:35:42,439 --> 01:35:44,600
Speaker 1: run and like shoot this thing because he's suffering. And

1751
01:35:44,640 --> 01:35:48,479
Speaker 1: Donnie's like, whoa dude, you know, he's it's fine, that's natural.

1752
01:35:49,240 --> 01:35:51,720
Speaker 1: We get there and he's down, and I mean, I

1753
01:35:51,720 --> 01:35:54,919
Speaker 1: gotta give massive props to Donnie. He is the perfect

1754
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:58,519
Speaker 1: person to go hunting with your first time, because he just,

1755
01:35:58,800 --> 01:36:01,120
Speaker 1: you know, looks at me and goes, hey, we're gonna

1756
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:02,800
Speaker 1: go get your stuff. We'll be back, and he leaves

1757
01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:05,519
Speaker 1: me there, and I just kind of sat there and

1758
01:36:05,600 --> 01:36:09,519
Speaker 1: was like very strange feeling of being feeling about as

1759
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:12,400
Speaker 1: depressed as I've ever felt, but also about as alive

1760
01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:15,840
Speaker 1: as I've ever felt. You know. It was a very heavy,

1761
01:36:15,880 --> 01:36:20,760
Speaker 1: strange new feeling to me. And I think ultimately at

1762
01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:23,200
Speaker 1: that point, I was like, I'm never gonna hunt again,

1763
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:25,920
Speaker 1: Like I'm just I'm just not gonna do it. And

1764
01:36:25,960 --> 01:36:28,040
Speaker 1: because I'm looking at this herd that he was with

1765
01:36:28,120 --> 01:36:31,479
Speaker 1: on the hill, just thinking, oh, man, you know, I'm

1766
01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:34,439
Speaker 1: just I just created a bandy up there or something.

1767
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:40,240
Speaker 1: And Donnie gets back and William and we start breaking

1768
01:36:40,240 --> 01:36:44,280
Speaker 1: this cariboo down and that's when my mind started to

1769
01:36:44,360 --> 01:36:48,439
Speaker 1: change because I could see that this ultimately was meat.

1770
01:36:48,520 --> 01:36:50,920
Speaker 1: It was going to feed me and my family, and

1771
01:36:50,960 --> 01:36:52,719
Speaker 1: also you know, I was going to go to Donnie

1772
01:36:52,760 --> 01:36:55,680
Speaker 1: and William and their families. And seeing the meat, like

1773
01:36:56,560 --> 01:36:59,800
Speaker 1: something just shifted for me. I'm like, dude, you eat

1774
01:36:59,840 --> 01:37:03,439
Speaker 1: me eat like every single day and never once do

1775
01:37:03,479 --> 01:37:06,920
Speaker 1: you feel any ounce of regret or sadness or you

1776
01:37:06,920 --> 01:37:11,160
Speaker 1: don't even think about it at all. But like here

1777
01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:15,120
Speaker 1: you are with this meat, feeling this way. And it

1778
01:37:15,200 --> 01:37:20,040
Speaker 1: made me realize that, like, by hunting, we're inserting ourselves

1779
01:37:20,200 --> 01:37:22,639
Speaker 1: in the life cycle in a way that is very

1780
01:37:22,760 --> 01:37:26,800
Speaker 1: enlightening for us. And you know, for me personally it

1781
01:37:26,880 --> 01:37:31,160
Speaker 1: was it was very rewarding. And then it also taught

1782
01:37:31,200 --> 01:37:34,240
Speaker 1: me a lot about the meat I eat just at

1783
01:37:34,280 --> 01:37:36,400
Speaker 1: home every day. It made it forced me to think

1784
01:37:36,960 --> 01:37:40,600
Speaker 1: about the choices I make, um with what food is

1785
01:37:40,600 --> 01:37:43,479
Speaker 1: on my plate and where it came from, and it

1786
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:47,160
Speaker 1: just made me more cognizant of that. And um, I

1787
01:37:47,160 --> 01:37:49,960
Speaker 1: mean I can say um. Paradoxically, you would think that

1788
01:37:50,000 --> 01:37:51,800
Speaker 1: once a person begins hunting, they would eat a lot

1789
01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:55,519
Speaker 1: more meat. The opposite has been true for me. I'm

1790
01:37:55,560 --> 01:37:57,200
Speaker 1: a lot more. I mean I still eat meat. I

1791
01:37:57,240 --> 01:37:59,439
Speaker 1: am by no means of vegetarian. I probably eat meat,

1792
01:38:00,160 --> 01:38:02,759
Speaker 1: um every other day or so, but like I've reduced

1793
01:38:02,760 --> 01:38:05,240
Speaker 1: my meat consumption because I'm like, I don't do I

1794
01:38:05,320 --> 01:38:10,479
Speaker 1: need to eat meat right now? I don't know, you know, um.

1795
01:38:10,520 --> 01:38:14,040
Speaker 1: But it also made me realize how removed we are

1796
01:38:14,120 --> 01:38:17,640
Speaker 1: in the modern world from the life cycle and what

1797
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:21,040
Speaker 1: effect is that had on us. So to sort of

1798
01:38:21,120 --> 01:38:26,559
Speaker 1: chase down that idea, I ended up traveling to uh Bhutan,

1799
01:38:27,080 --> 01:38:33,439
Speaker 1: which is this country in Asia that's by Nepal. And

1800
01:38:33,439 --> 01:38:36,479
Speaker 1: in Bhutan, people are thought to think about death at

1801
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:40,360
Speaker 1: least once each day. Now, paradoxically, you would think that

1802
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:43,559
Speaker 1: would really bomb a country out, and Bhutan is not

1803
01:38:43,720 --> 01:38:47,320
Speaker 1: that developed, but they're also the half one of the

1804
01:38:47,320 --> 01:38:50,400
Speaker 1: happiest countries on Earth, and a lot of the research

1805
01:38:50,479 --> 01:38:54,280
Speaker 1: suggests it's because they think about death. So it's just

1806
01:38:54,560 --> 01:38:59,000
Speaker 1: it's it's very fascinating that, you know, in America we

1807
01:38:59,040 --> 01:39:02,600
Speaker 1: remove ourselves from not only with what we eat, but

1808
01:39:02,720 --> 01:39:07,080
Speaker 1: also with how we deal with funerals, um, how we

1809
01:39:07,160 --> 01:39:10,160
Speaker 1: plan our lives. Like people don't tend to people tend

1810
01:39:10,160 --> 01:39:13,040
Speaker 1: to think they're just gonna like live forever, right, Um,

1811
01:39:13,160 --> 01:39:16,720
Speaker 1: we just don't face it. And by facing it um,

1812
01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:20,480
Speaker 1: whether through hunting or thinking about, you know, your own mortality,

1813
01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:23,479
Speaker 1: that can change a lot of things for people. And

1814
01:39:23,479 --> 01:39:26,880
Speaker 1: they've followed this up with research that does show that

1815
01:39:27,200 --> 01:39:31,600
Speaker 1: people who think about their death and sort of understand

1816
01:39:31,640 --> 01:39:34,280
Speaker 1: that they're going to die one day, it makes them

1817
01:39:34,360 --> 01:39:36,559
Speaker 1: live in a way that makes them happier, because all

1818
01:39:36,560 --> 01:39:40,400
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you know, your everyday bullshit just starts

1819
01:39:40,439 --> 01:39:42,880
Speaker 1: to fade. Like if I realized that, hey, one day,

1820
01:39:42,880 --> 01:39:45,240
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be here, Like I'm probably not going

1821
01:39:45,280 --> 01:39:47,519
Speaker 1: to be as much of an asshole in traffic, right like,

1822
01:39:47,720 --> 01:39:50,960
Speaker 1: just like whatever, Like you know, we have all these

1823
01:39:50,960 --> 01:39:53,960
Speaker 1: petty little squabbles we get into every day. That stuff

1824
01:39:53,960 --> 01:39:55,800
Speaker 1: you just sort of don't care as much about it,

1825
01:39:55,800 --> 01:39:57,320
Speaker 1: and you really focus on what you think is going

1826
01:39:57,360 --> 01:40:00,120
Speaker 1: to move the dial for you and what matters in

1827
01:40:00,160 --> 01:40:03,800
Speaker 1: your life. It's the same thing when you've got a

1828
01:40:03,880 --> 01:40:08,479
Speaker 1: family friend who's you know, someone dies tragically in a

1829
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:10,960
Speaker 1: car accident or something. When that stuff hits close to

1830
01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:14,200
Speaker 1: home and you you know, it hits you viscerally like that,

1831
01:40:14,439 --> 01:40:17,800
Speaker 1: you all of a sudden get a little Unfortunately usually

1832
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:20,479
Speaker 1: it's a short window, but a window of clarity where

1833
01:40:20,479 --> 01:40:24,200
Speaker 1: you you know, take a step back and take perspective

1834
01:40:24,240 --> 01:40:28,040
Speaker 1: of things and have that reminder the jeez, this stupid

1835
01:40:28,040 --> 01:40:30,360
Speaker 1: thing at work, or this stupid squabble with my wife

1836
01:40:30,439 --> 01:40:32,320
Speaker 1: or this thing or that think, gosh, it doesn't matter

1837
01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:35,280
Speaker 1: in the big scheme of things. Helps you appreciate things again,

1838
01:40:35,280 --> 01:40:38,400
Speaker 1: it helps recenter you on like you said, what's what's

1839
01:40:38,439 --> 01:40:43,400
Speaker 1: most important? Um, it's it's It's something that I know

1840
01:40:43,520 --> 01:40:46,920
Speaker 1: has talked a lot about within UM kind of the

1841
01:40:47,640 --> 01:40:52,400
Speaker 1: stoic philosophy world too, where you know, this this idea

1842
01:40:52,439 --> 01:40:55,640
Speaker 1: of reflecting on your mortality is is a key foundation

1843
01:40:55,640 --> 01:40:58,479
Speaker 1: as well. Just just always kind of remembering this could

1844
01:40:58,520 --> 01:41:00,680
Speaker 1: all end tomorrow. So you have people what you've done,

1845
01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:03,040
Speaker 1: you're happy with what you're planning on doing today. You're

1846
01:41:03,040 --> 01:41:07,599
Speaker 1: making the right decisions because nothing's guaranteed. UH talked about

1847
01:41:08,040 --> 01:41:12,479
Speaker 1: talk about palate cleanser for a lot of And one

1848
01:41:12,520 --> 01:41:14,320
Speaker 1: of the I mean, one of the craziest things is

1849
01:41:14,520 --> 01:41:17,840
Speaker 1: so I go to Bhutan and it is it's a

1850
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:21,120
Speaker 1: fascinating country. It's the only capital city in the world

1851
01:41:21,160 --> 01:41:23,280
Speaker 1: that does not have a stop light. I mean, it's very,

1852
01:41:23,400 --> 01:41:27,080
Speaker 1: very underdeveloped. But again they're one of the twenties had

1853
01:41:27,200 --> 01:41:31,080
Speaker 1: twentiest happy twenty happiest countries in the world. Took me

1854
01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:34,439
Speaker 1: a minute to say that, right, Um, but they're they're

1855
01:41:34,479 --> 01:41:37,320
Speaker 1: one of the least developed. And one of the things

1856
01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:39,840
Speaker 1: I did to understand this is there is a guy

1857
01:41:39,880 --> 01:41:43,360
Speaker 1: who's an economist at Oxford that really runs all this data,

1858
01:41:43,400 --> 01:41:45,720
Speaker 1: who was interesting to talk to talk to you about this.

1859
01:41:46,479 --> 01:41:49,800
Speaker 1: But then I went and visited a guy who is

1860
01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:53,160
Speaker 1: sort of a leader in the Buddhist faith. There it's um,

1861
01:41:53,200 --> 01:41:56,240
Speaker 1: you know, it's a it's a Buddhist nation, and take

1862
01:41:56,280 --> 01:41:58,880
Speaker 1: it up to meet with this guy. His title as

1863
01:41:58,920 --> 01:42:01,960
Speaker 1: a Kempo, so he's a unk and he lives in

1864
01:42:02,000 --> 01:42:06,120
Speaker 1: this shock that is outside this monastery that's up on

1865
01:42:06,160 --> 01:42:10,760
Speaker 1: a cliff. Now, to visit Bhutan, because of government regulations,

1866
01:42:10,800 --> 01:42:12,919
Speaker 1: you have to hire a driver to take you everywhere.

1867
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:16,639
Speaker 1: My driver's got this like smart car basically, I mean,

1868
01:42:16,680 --> 01:42:20,280
Speaker 1: it's this tiny little thing and we gotta go up

1869
01:42:20,320 --> 01:42:23,599
Speaker 1: this you know, four by four road to get up

1870
01:42:23,600 --> 01:42:26,840
Speaker 1: to this uh monastery to meet this dude in his shock.

1871
01:42:26,920 --> 01:42:29,760
Speaker 1: And it's like, I mean, this this driver is just

1872
01:42:30,880 --> 01:42:34,479
Speaker 1: he could win the Baja one thousand. I'll tell you

1873
01:42:34,520 --> 01:42:36,280
Speaker 1: that man like that drive up there was just like,

1874
01:42:37,000 --> 01:42:41,680
Speaker 1: I mean, just amazing, and you know, he parks. I

1875
01:42:41,760 --> 01:42:45,040
Speaker 1: hike along this ridge, go see this guy in his shack.

1876
01:42:45,400 --> 01:42:49,000
Speaker 1: Get in there. First room, there's nothing in there. Um

1877
01:42:49,040 --> 01:42:51,360
Speaker 1: second room is a very basic kitchen with you know,

1878
01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:55,640
Speaker 1: cooked top and sink. And the third I like, I

1879
01:42:55,720 --> 01:42:59,400
Speaker 1: have to pull this drape open and the first thing

1880
01:42:59,439 --> 01:43:02,519
Speaker 1: I see is a massive statue of the Buddha and

1881
01:43:02,520 --> 01:43:06,480
Speaker 1: it's flanked by like candles and smaller statues and photos

1882
01:43:06,560 --> 01:43:10,479
Speaker 1: of of you know, Buddhist leaders, and uh. Then I

1883
01:43:10,520 --> 01:43:12,960
Speaker 1: look left and there's you know, there's incense smoke in

1884
01:43:13,000 --> 01:43:16,360
Speaker 1: the air, and the sun is shining through this window

1885
01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:20,759
Speaker 1: and it's just like catching the smoke. And beyond the smoke,

1886
01:43:20,840 --> 01:43:24,720
Speaker 1: I can see this face and it's like I hear

1887
01:43:24,760 --> 01:43:28,640
Speaker 1: this voice. It's welcome, you know, and it's this Buddhist

1888
01:43:28,640 --> 01:43:31,599
Speaker 1: monk and he's on this platform in the lotus position

1889
01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:35,479
Speaker 1: and his full orange robes, shaved head. I mean, it

1890
01:43:35,560 --> 01:43:38,800
Speaker 1: was just like if you're picturing, like, what's the most

1891
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:41,360
Speaker 1: cliche thing you could think about in terms of like

1892
01:43:41,400 --> 01:43:44,880
Speaker 1: this Western journalists going to meet you know, the monk

1893
01:43:44,960 --> 01:43:47,719
Speaker 1: and Bhutan. I mean, this was it, dude. This was totally.

1894
01:43:47,760 --> 01:43:52,600
Speaker 1: It just like just like the movie. And so I

1895
01:43:52,640 --> 01:43:57,720
Speaker 1: sit down there and we talked for a couple hours

1896
01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:01,880
Speaker 1: just about death and especially how the West sees death

1897
01:44:02,080 --> 01:44:04,559
Speaker 1: versus how they see it in Bhutan. And you know,

1898
01:44:04,600 --> 01:44:06,800
Speaker 1: he talked about in the West, we see life is

1899
01:44:06,840 --> 01:44:11,360
Speaker 1: like trying to accomplish a checklist. It's like I'm gonna

1900
01:44:11,360 --> 01:44:13,519
Speaker 1: graduate college, then I'm gonna buy a car, then I'm

1901
01:44:13,520 --> 01:44:15,280
Speaker 1: gonna get a job, then I'm gonna get married, and

1902
01:44:15,280 --> 01:44:16,680
Speaker 1: they're gonna have kids, and I'm gonna do this, and

1903
01:44:16,680 --> 01:44:18,360
Speaker 1: the I'm gonna do that, and we're always looking ahead

1904
01:44:18,360 --> 01:44:20,960
Speaker 1: to the next thing. You know, we're not quite satisfied.

1905
01:44:21,680 --> 01:44:24,280
Speaker 1: And he really thinks about it, like if we can

1906
01:44:24,400 --> 01:44:27,320
Speaker 1: if we can learn to accept that we are going

1907
01:44:27,360 --> 01:44:29,720
Speaker 1: to die one day and really try and live in

1908
01:44:29,760 --> 01:44:31,639
Speaker 1: this moment, and we never know when we're gonna die,

1909
01:44:31,640 --> 01:44:33,800
Speaker 1: it's a thing like death could come at any time,

1910
01:44:33,880 --> 01:44:37,240
Speaker 1: you know. Um, we can start to make decisions that

1911
01:44:37,360 --> 01:44:39,840
Speaker 1: maybe aren't just so automatic. Not saying that any of

1912
01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:41,920
Speaker 1: those things that I laid out are bad in any way,

1913
01:44:42,080 --> 01:44:44,240
Speaker 1: but we often don't stop and question why we're doing

1914
01:44:44,280 --> 01:44:46,920
Speaker 1: the things we do, and that can lead us to

1915
01:44:46,960 --> 01:44:50,880
Speaker 1: maybe live a little bit truer than ourselves. And one

1916
01:44:50,920 --> 01:44:55,000
Speaker 1: of the final things this guy says to me is, hey,

1917
01:44:55,080 --> 01:44:58,559
Speaker 1: just remember death can come at any time. A couple

1918
01:44:58,560 --> 01:45:02,240
Speaker 1: of days later, I'm going to visit this Uh. It

1919
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:04,280
Speaker 1: was like it was a non work day. It was like,

1920
01:45:04,320 --> 01:45:06,840
Speaker 1: I'll do a tourist thing day. Um, I go to

1921
01:45:06,920 --> 01:45:11,840
Speaker 1: visit this really famous monastery that is like built into

1922
01:45:11,880 --> 01:45:15,120
Speaker 1: the side of a cliff. Um. You have to hike

1923
01:45:15,200 --> 01:45:16,920
Speaker 1: to get up there. It's like a five mile hike,

1924
01:45:17,520 --> 01:45:20,200
Speaker 1: pretty gnarly high because it's um it's in the foothills

1925
01:45:20,200 --> 01:45:22,599
Speaker 1: of the Himalayas, so the altitude really starts to get you.

1926
01:45:23,400 --> 01:45:25,960
Speaker 1: And so me and this driver we hike up there.

1927
01:45:26,280 --> 01:45:28,320
Speaker 1: We go see it, and there's all this interesting death

1928
01:45:28,320 --> 01:45:32,080
Speaker 1: imagery and um, just really fascinating place. And we're leaving

1929
01:45:32,280 --> 01:45:35,960
Speaker 1: and the drivers like, hey, uh, he's started. He's like hey, someone,

1930
01:45:36,120 --> 01:45:38,320
Speaker 1: someone's sick. And he starts running over to this group

1931
01:45:38,320 --> 01:45:44,200
Speaker 1: of people and this Buddhist monk was like on the ground,

1932
01:45:44,880 --> 01:45:46,960
Speaker 1: had had some sort of incident and he's on these

1933
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:49,519
Speaker 1: like really steep steps kind of on a cliff. So

1934
01:45:49,560 --> 01:45:52,599
Speaker 1: we all decide like we need to get this guy

1935
01:45:52,640 --> 01:45:54,759
Speaker 1: down and no, I'm the only person that speaks English.

1936
01:45:54,760 --> 01:45:57,680
Speaker 1: Everyone else is spooking speaking boutanee. So my drivers kind

1937
01:45:57,680 --> 01:45:59,720
Speaker 1: of happened to be this like middleman sort of like,

1938
01:45:59,760 --> 01:46:01,679
Speaker 1: hey need to get him off the steps, give him down,

1939
01:46:01,720 --> 01:46:05,120
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm the only person that knows CPR,

1940
01:46:05,240 --> 01:46:10,280
Speaker 1: which I learned from my venture into the Alaskan wild,

1941
01:46:11,080 --> 01:46:14,120
Speaker 1: and I started doing CPR on this guy. He's I mean,

1942
01:46:14,120 --> 01:46:16,400
Speaker 1: he's a monk bald head. He's in his Alt monks

1943
01:46:16,520 --> 01:46:20,760
Speaker 1: robes and and um did CPR on this dude for

1944
01:46:20,800 --> 01:46:24,200
Speaker 1: like twenty minutes and he didn't make it. And it

1945
01:46:24,320 --> 01:46:26,920
Speaker 1: was just like I came here to learn about death

1946
01:46:26,920 --> 01:46:29,760
Speaker 1: and we have this situation where there's this guy, Like

1947
01:46:29,800 --> 01:46:31,680
Speaker 1: there was another tourist around me who was like I

1948
01:46:31,760 --> 01:46:35,120
Speaker 1: literally talked to that guy and we laughed together at

1949
01:46:35,160 --> 01:46:38,160
Speaker 1: the bottom of the hike and he was totally fine.

1950
01:46:38,360 --> 01:46:41,040
Speaker 1: And then for the guy was probably like sixty and

1951
01:46:41,120 --> 01:46:43,439
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, he had some incident and it was

1952
01:46:43,479 --> 01:46:46,600
Speaker 1: like what he just couldn't you know. We tried to

1953
01:46:46,640 --> 01:46:49,439
Speaker 1: call for a helicopter, but it was too cliffy, nothing

1954
01:46:49,479 --> 01:46:52,960
Speaker 1: could come in. It was just like, man, I mean

1955
01:46:52,960 --> 01:46:55,680
Speaker 1: it like it was intense, but It also cemented this

1956
01:46:55,760 --> 01:46:58,920
Speaker 1: idea that's like death cam come at any time, Like

1957
01:46:59,000 --> 01:47:01,320
Speaker 1: we can't. We can't predict anything, whether it's like you said,

1958
01:47:01,680 --> 01:47:05,120
Speaker 1: a car accident, or whether we have some weird genetic

1959
01:47:05,240 --> 01:47:08,240
Speaker 1: thing or you know, you have a heart attack unexpectedly.

1960
01:47:08,920 --> 01:47:13,599
Speaker 1: I mean, man, that'll that definitely made me start thinking about,

1961
01:47:13,840 --> 01:47:16,519
Speaker 1: you know, how am I spending my time? Where is

1962
01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:20,439
Speaker 1: my attention going? Am I doing the things that really

1963
01:47:20,479 --> 01:47:24,120
Speaker 1: truly fulfill me? I mean that that that sort of thing.

1964
01:47:24,120 --> 01:47:26,880
Speaker 1: Will you know that self corrects once you get yourself

1965
01:47:26,920 --> 01:47:33,160
Speaker 1: in a position like that. So yeah, yeah, So, I

1966
01:47:33,200 --> 01:47:37,480
Speaker 1: mean that's that's a a heck of a personal experience

1967
01:47:37,520 --> 01:47:41,400
Speaker 1: to really illustrate and entie a bow on a concept.

1968
01:47:41,400 --> 01:47:44,519
Speaker 1: You're trying to learn more about that, for sure, But

1969
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:50,760
Speaker 1: I gotta believe this entire journey has has been has

1970
01:47:50,800 --> 01:47:53,559
Speaker 1: been something like that in its own way for you. So,

1971
01:47:54,400 --> 01:47:58,600
Speaker 1: now that it's done, you've chased this rabbit trying to

1972
01:47:58,680 --> 01:48:01,920
Speaker 1: learn about these different things. You've you've had all these experiences,

1973
01:48:02,080 --> 01:48:06,120
Speaker 1: you spend a month plus in the Arctic wilderness, You've

1974
01:48:06,160 --> 01:48:10,160
Speaker 1: confronted death and a number of different ways. Now you've

1975
01:48:10,200 --> 01:48:16,400
Speaker 1: explored how discomfort may actually really lead to much better

1976
01:48:16,520 --> 01:48:19,479
Speaker 1: things in our lives. I know this book. I'm sure

1977
01:48:19,520 --> 01:48:22,000
Speaker 1: you're hoping this book will change people in some kind

1978
01:48:22,000 --> 01:48:25,240
Speaker 1: of way, But how has this book changed you? What's

1979
01:48:25,360 --> 01:48:29,000
Speaker 1: changed in your life now after this journey for yourself? Yeah,

1980
01:48:29,040 --> 01:48:31,960
Speaker 1: I think it's a lot of it is just awareness

1981
01:48:32,160 --> 01:48:36,439
Speaker 1: of how freaking lucky we have it today. I mean,

1982
01:48:36,720 --> 01:48:38,479
Speaker 1: I don't want the message of this book to be

1983
01:48:38,560 --> 01:48:42,680
Speaker 1: that comfort is bad. Comfort is awesome. It is amazing

1984
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:45,880
Speaker 1: that we can you and I can have this conversation

1985
01:48:46,000 --> 01:48:49,200
Speaker 1: right now over the internet, and then it could go

1986
01:48:49,280 --> 01:48:53,080
Speaker 1: out to people and you know, benefit people. Um, it's

1987
01:48:53,120 --> 01:48:56,160
Speaker 1: amazing that, you know, I can drive through McDonald's and

1988
01:48:56,200 --> 01:48:58,200
Speaker 1: get a quarter pounder that tastes the list, Like all

1989
01:48:58,200 --> 01:49:00,639
Speaker 1: these things are amazing. There's a reason where so successful

1990
01:49:00,640 --> 01:49:03,600
Speaker 1: as a species. But we have these internal drives that

1991
01:49:03,640 --> 01:49:06,880
Speaker 1: have us always default to that which is most comfortable.

1992
01:49:06,920 --> 01:49:09,240
Speaker 1: And if we don't push against that, I think we

1993
01:49:09,439 --> 01:49:13,200
Speaker 1: lose a lot of our understanding of what it means

1994
01:49:13,240 --> 01:49:16,280
Speaker 1: to truly, you know, feel alive, and we lose the

1995
01:49:16,320 --> 01:49:19,880
Speaker 1: perspective to realize just how damn lucky we have it now.

1996
01:49:20,120 --> 01:49:22,320
Speaker 1: It's like when I got when I got out of

1997
01:49:22,360 --> 01:49:26,320
Speaker 1: the Arctic. We were in this you know, little shock

1998
01:49:26,400 --> 01:49:32,240
Speaker 1: of an airport and contubue, Alaska, and I used the

1999
01:49:32,280 --> 01:49:35,000
Speaker 1: restroom and I go wash my hands in the water's warm,

2000
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:37,320
Speaker 1: and it's like the biggest shit eating grin of my

2001
01:49:37,360 --> 01:49:40,240
Speaker 1: life went across my face. I was like, oh my god,

2002
01:49:40,320 --> 01:49:46,160
Speaker 1: warm water. Yeah, and that and that happened every time

2003
01:49:46,160 --> 01:49:49,360
Speaker 1: I'd use warm water for like weeks after. And you

2004
01:49:49,400 --> 01:49:52,760
Speaker 1: also just start to realize like, oh man, like we

2005
01:49:52,880 --> 01:49:55,320
Speaker 1: have it so good now, and that gives you a

2006
01:49:55,360 --> 01:49:58,799
Speaker 1: lot of gratitude and like it just changes your every

2007
01:49:59,439 --> 01:50:02,680
Speaker 1: h I think it colors having these moments, you know,

2008
01:50:02,760 --> 01:50:05,840
Speaker 1: whether it's like a hunt where you had to face

2009
01:50:05,880 --> 01:50:08,640
Speaker 1: down some sort of discomfort and it was challenging, or

2010
01:50:08,840 --> 01:50:11,200
Speaker 1: you do one of those Missoggi things I talked about,

2011
01:50:11,360 --> 01:50:15,200
Speaker 1: or really anything that can change your perspective and realize

2012
01:50:15,240 --> 01:50:19,000
Speaker 1: help you realize how lucky you are to be alive.

2013
01:50:19,120 --> 01:50:23,280
Speaker 1: I think is is very worthwhile. Like my wife and

2014
01:50:23,320 --> 01:50:25,320
Speaker 1: I this is a stupid story, but my wife and

2015
01:50:25,320 --> 01:50:27,880
Speaker 1: I always go to this one restaurant by our house

2016
01:50:27,920 --> 01:50:31,840
Speaker 1: and it's there's always a wait. It's always very inefficient

2017
01:50:32,439 --> 01:50:34,840
Speaker 1: in terms of like how it's managed but the food

2018
01:50:34,880 --> 01:50:37,920
Speaker 1: is worth it, you know. But when we sit and wait,

2019
01:50:38,680 --> 01:50:41,200
Speaker 1: when we're standing there waiting, I mean, I would always

2020
01:50:41,240 --> 01:50:44,760
Speaker 1: just get so frustrated. Before I went to last I'm like, like,

2021
01:50:44,880 --> 01:50:46,559
Speaker 1: damn it, if they would just do this and this

2022
01:50:46,640 --> 01:50:49,000
Speaker 1: and this, they could move more people through. And I

2023
01:50:49,000 --> 01:50:52,320
Speaker 1: can't believe they're wasting my time because I am apparently

2024
01:50:52,439 --> 01:50:56,160
Speaker 1: just so damn important. You know. Well, when I get

2025
01:50:56,160 --> 01:50:58,599
Speaker 1: back from Alaska, it's like the first time we go

2026
01:50:58,640 --> 01:51:02,960
Speaker 1: in there, I'm just standing there and like I just think, man,

2027
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:05,559
Speaker 1: it's so nice to be in this warm building. Oh man,

2028
01:51:06,280 --> 01:51:09,320
Speaker 1: I can't wait to eat this food. Like I'm still underweight.

2029
01:51:09,360 --> 01:51:11,479
Speaker 1: This is gonna be so good. And I just realized, like,

2030
01:51:12,080 --> 01:51:14,519
Speaker 1: how can you bitch about having to wait five minutes

2031
01:51:14,560 --> 01:51:18,400
Speaker 1: in a restaurant that is either heated or air conditioned.

2032
01:51:18,720 --> 01:51:22,320
Speaker 1: You're about to eat like more calories in one sitting

2033
01:51:22,320 --> 01:51:24,759
Speaker 1: than our ancestors used to be able to eat in

2034
01:51:24,439 --> 01:51:27,160
Speaker 1: in a single day. And it's like, well prepared me.

2035
01:51:27,200 --> 01:51:28,960
Speaker 1: You're gonna sit doing it the whole time, and you

2036
01:51:29,000 --> 01:51:32,400
Speaker 1: didn't have to work one single amount of calories worth

2037
01:51:32,439 --> 01:51:34,360
Speaker 1: to do it. I mean, it's just like we have

2038
01:51:34,439 --> 01:51:37,960
Speaker 1: it so amazing now, and we sometimes forget that, and

2039
01:51:38,000 --> 01:51:40,719
Speaker 1: so we need moments that sort of push up against

2040
01:51:40,720 --> 01:51:44,320
Speaker 1: that comfort and just say, hey, snap out of it.

2041
01:51:44,479 --> 01:51:46,240
Speaker 1: This is freaking awesome to live right now, and you

2042
01:51:46,360 --> 01:51:50,960
Speaker 1: better recognize that. Yeah, that's a great point. So there's

2043
01:51:51,080 --> 01:51:54,719
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different things that folks could take

2044
01:51:54,800 --> 01:51:57,320
Speaker 1: out of this. There's a lot of different action items

2045
01:51:57,320 --> 01:52:00,040
Speaker 1: that someone could latch onto and and run down to

2046
01:52:00,040 --> 01:52:02,600
Speaker 1: apply in their own life. But if you had to

2047
01:52:03,920 --> 01:52:11,200
Speaker 1: pick one single change or one single idea that you

2048
01:52:11,240 --> 01:52:14,599
Speaker 1: could propose to to our audience, to say, man, try

2049
01:52:14,760 --> 01:52:16,719
Speaker 1: this one thing of all the things we talked about,

2050
01:52:17,439 --> 01:52:20,519
Speaker 1: what would that one thing be? And maybe it could

2051
01:52:20,520 --> 01:52:23,160
Speaker 1: be because you think it's the most impactful. Maybe you

2052
01:52:23,200 --> 01:52:29,320
Speaker 1: think it's the most contrary to popular popularity or popular opinion.

2053
01:52:29,400 --> 01:52:31,519
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know, But what's one thing if you

2054
01:52:31,640 --> 01:52:34,320
Speaker 1: had a narrow down one action at them, what's that

2055
01:52:35,400 --> 01:52:39,439
Speaker 1: I would probably this is this is probably cheating. I

2056
01:52:39,479 --> 01:52:42,760
Speaker 1: would probably go back to that idea of do some

2057
01:52:42,880 --> 01:52:45,800
Speaker 1: big epic thing outside because it's gonna force you to

2058
01:52:45,840 --> 01:52:47,880
Speaker 1: face all these things that I just talked about, like

2059
01:52:47,880 --> 01:52:51,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a real challenge. You're probably gonna be

2060
01:52:51,080 --> 01:52:53,320
Speaker 1: out there long enough that you're like, oh man, I'm

2061
01:52:53,360 --> 01:52:55,479
Speaker 1: I'm starving right now. I didn't pack it enough food.

2062
01:52:55,720 --> 01:52:57,960
Speaker 1: You're gonna be out in nature for an extended period

2063
01:52:57,960 --> 01:53:00,200
Speaker 1: of time, You're gonna have to put your body through

2064
01:53:00,320 --> 01:53:02,640
Speaker 1: physical things that it probably hasn't gone through again. So

2065
01:53:02,680 --> 01:53:06,479
Speaker 1: it really just ticks all these little things things in

2066
01:53:06,560 --> 01:53:08,920
Speaker 1: its own way. I mean, that's like we've kind of

2067
01:53:08,960 --> 01:53:11,640
Speaker 1: been circling around this whole time, is I mean, that's

2068
01:53:11,640 --> 01:53:14,360
Speaker 1: why hunting is amazing. Is it hits all these things

2069
01:53:14,360 --> 01:53:18,280
Speaker 1: that we've just been talking about and really teaches us

2070
01:53:18,320 --> 01:53:21,800
Speaker 1: a lot about ourselves process. That's the only complaint I

2071
01:53:21,840 --> 01:53:23,799
Speaker 1: think I have about your book is that you didn't

2072
01:53:23,800 --> 01:53:26,360
Speaker 1: have like the last page being all right, and the

2073
01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:28,720
Speaker 1: whole purpose of this book was to explain to you

2074
01:53:28,960 --> 01:53:33,679
Speaker 1: why you should take up hunting, and uh, I kid,

2075
01:53:33,720 --> 01:53:35,800
Speaker 1: But but really the book is great. I I really

2076
01:53:35,880 --> 01:53:40,440
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. Yeah it was. It was a great read. Interesting,

2077
01:53:40,520 --> 01:53:42,800
Speaker 1: And I guess my last thing I'm curious about is

2078
01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:47,040
Speaker 1: are you going to do it again? You're gonna hunt again? Yes,

2079
01:53:47,200 --> 01:53:49,479
Speaker 1: I am, I've had I'm definitely gonna hunt again. Um,

2080
01:53:49,520 --> 01:53:51,479
Speaker 1: I had someone asked me so are you a hunter now?

2081
01:53:52,000 --> 01:53:53,840
Speaker 1: And I had to think about that one, and I don't.

2082
01:53:54,680 --> 01:53:57,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would classify myself as a

2083
01:53:57,640 --> 01:53:59,720
Speaker 1: hunter yet. Maybe it's I feel like I haven't earned it,

2084
01:53:59,840 --> 01:54:03,520
Speaker 1: or maybe it's I feel like, um, because I'm primarily,

2085
01:54:03,560 --> 01:54:06,000
Speaker 1: first and foremost a writer, that if I if I

2086
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:08,600
Speaker 1: start to identify with you know, I'm a hunter or

2087
01:54:08,880 --> 01:54:11,920
Speaker 1: whatever it is, and then maybe I couldn't criticize it

2088
01:54:11,960 --> 01:54:16,479
Speaker 1: if I needed to in my writing. M Yeah, but

2089
01:54:16,479 --> 01:54:20,639
Speaker 1: I'm definitely gonna hunt again. I mean, I've talked to Donni. Um,

2090
01:54:20,800 --> 01:54:23,880
Speaker 1: Donnie setting me up with the bow and so I've

2091
01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:27,040
Speaker 1: started shooting that and we're gonna we're gonna get some

2092
01:54:27,040 --> 01:54:29,400
Speaker 1: stuff going soon. Yeah, I've put in for tags too.

2093
01:54:29,439 --> 01:54:32,200
Speaker 1: But the other thing that makes that I think is

2094
01:54:32,240 --> 01:54:34,880
Speaker 1: really interesting with hunting, going back to that, the Soga

2095
01:54:34,920 --> 01:54:38,280
Speaker 1: idea is it is damn hard, like you're probably gonna fail,

2096
01:54:38,400 --> 01:54:41,120
Speaker 1: especially when you're new. I mean I put in for

2097
01:54:41,160 --> 01:54:42,720
Speaker 1: all these tags right when I got back, and it

2098
01:54:42,800 --> 01:54:47,440
Speaker 1: was just like strike, strike, strike now, and it's just

2099
01:54:47,520 --> 01:54:50,000
Speaker 1: so hard to get. So it's the idea that you

2100
01:54:50,040 --> 01:54:54,800
Speaker 1: actually have to work and dedicate yourself to get into

2101
01:54:54,800 --> 01:54:59,200
Speaker 1: this game is makes it that much more rewarding. And

2102
01:54:59,240 --> 01:55:01,440
Speaker 1: also because the stakes are so much higher than like,

2103
01:55:02,240 --> 01:55:05,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, golf thing, you know, very very true.

2104
01:55:05,600 --> 01:55:08,800
Speaker 1: It's it's it's a as serious as anything can get.

2105
01:55:09,160 --> 01:55:13,920
Speaker 1: So forces forces, a lot of these a lot of

2106
01:55:13,960 --> 01:55:17,520
Speaker 1: these perspective shifting things that you've talked about all come

2107
01:55:17,560 --> 01:55:19,080
Speaker 1: into play when it comes to Hunting for for so

2108
01:55:19,120 --> 01:55:21,760
Speaker 1: many reasons. So it's a really interesting interplay. And I'm

2109
01:55:21,880 --> 01:55:24,920
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you know, people could write this book

2110
01:55:24,920 --> 01:55:27,920
Speaker 1: with a lot of different you know, adventures being the

2111
01:55:27,920 --> 01:55:30,880
Speaker 1: theme of their story, and I thought it was really

2112
01:55:30,880 --> 01:55:33,080
Speaker 1: interesting that hunting ended up being the one that that

2113
01:55:33,880 --> 01:55:35,600
Speaker 1: worked with this story, and I think it was a

2114
01:55:35,600 --> 01:55:39,400
Speaker 1: perfect illustration. So for folks that want to pick up

2115
01:55:39,440 --> 01:55:41,640
Speaker 1: a copy of the book, where do you want them

2116
01:55:41,640 --> 01:55:44,240
Speaker 1: to look for it? When is it out? What do

2117
01:55:44,280 --> 01:55:48,600
Speaker 1: they need to know? Uh, it is out May eleven,

2118
01:55:49,040 --> 01:55:50,800
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure when you're airing this, but it

2119
01:55:50,800 --> 01:55:53,160
Speaker 1: could be out now if you're at May eleven, and

2120
01:55:54,240 --> 01:55:56,240
Speaker 1: you can find out wherever books are sold. I mean,

2121
01:55:56,480 --> 01:55:58,640
Speaker 1: you know, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, all that stuff. There's

2122
01:55:58,680 --> 01:56:01,680
Speaker 1: a bookstore here in my hometown of Las Vegas that

2123
01:56:01,720 --> 01:56:05,080
Speaker 1: I partnered up with, and I did that because they

2124
01:56:05,200 --> 01:56:08,440
Speaker 1: do a lot of their funding goes to writing programs

2125
01:56:08,480 --> 01:56:12,320
Speaker 1: for any inner city kids, and it's called the Writer's Block.

2126
01:56:12,440 --> 01:56:15,240
Speaker 1: So if you go to the Writer's Block dot org

2127
01:56:15,360 --> 01:56:18,120
Speaker 1: slash Easter, you can get it there. I'll sign it.

2128
01:56:18,240 --> 01:56:19,960
Speaker 1: Some of the money goes to these programs, So that's

2129
01:56:20,040 --> 01:56:21,720
Speaker 1: kind of a cool way to do it because it

2130
01:56:21,760 --> 01:56:25,520
Speaker 1: also supports that independent bookstore. And then I don't know,

2131
01:56:25,600 --> 01:56:27,160
Speaker 1: if you want to know more about me, I got

2132
01:56:27,160 --> 01:56:30,880
Speaker 1: a website. It's Easter Michael dot com and um, yeah,

2133
01:56:31,000 --> 01:56:33,320
Speaker 1: you can hit me up on Instagram, whatever, email me.

2134
01:56:33,360 --> 01:56:37,840
Speaker 1: I'm happy to chat answer questions, all that kind of stuff. Awesome, Well,

2135
01:56:38,640 --> 01:56:40,520
Speaker 1: well done with a book, Michael. This is a really

2136
01:56:40,600 --> 01:56:43,200
Speaker 1: good one. I'm excited to recommend it to people. I

2137
01:56:43,280 --> 01:56:46,960
Speaker 1: absolutely recommended to people listening, and uh, I hope it

2138
01:56:46,960 --> 01:56:50,280
Speaker 1: does just swimmingly well. I hope it's a New York

2139
01:56:50,320 --> 01:56:52,720
Speaker 1: Times bestseller and a lot of people pick it up

2140
01:56:52,840 --> 01:56:55,200
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people's lives will be

2141
01:56:55,600 --> 01:56:59,000
Speaker 1: positively changed because of it. So so bravo on that,

2142
01:56:59,120 --> 01:57:01,760
Speaker 1: and thanks for chatting. Awesome. Well, Hey, thanks a lot

2143
01:57:01,800 --> 01:57:04,240
Speaker 1: for having me Man I really appreciate um the kind

2144
01:57:04,280 --> 01:57:06,520
Speaker 1: words coming from you. I mean, I loved that wild

2145
01:57:06,560 --> 01:57:09,000
Speaker 1: country and I think we definitely see a lot of

2146
01:57:09,040 --> 01:57:12,240
Speaker 1: things um the same way, but kind of coming at

2147
01:57:12,240 --> 01:57:15,080
Speaker 1: it from slightly different angles, which is is really cool

2148
01:57:15,120 --> 01:57:16,880
Speaker 1: to see that overlapped and it was awesome to talk

2149
01:57:16,920 --> 01:57:19,680
Speaker 1: to you. Yeah, I agree. I think we should do

2150
01:57:19,680 --> 01:57:24,240
Speaker 1: it again for sure. And that's a wrap. Thank you

2151
01:57:24,320 --> 01:57:27,200
Speaker 1: for joining us. As I mentioned, highly recommend this book.

2152
01:57:27,240 --> 01:57:29,800
Speaker 1: Head on over to Amazon or wherever it is we

2153
01:57:29,800 --> 01:57:31,440
Speaker 1: going to pick up your books and check out The

2154
01:57:31,480 --> 01:57:34,920
Speaker 1: Comfort Crisis. Really enjoyed this one. I hope you did too.

2155
01:57:35,240 --> 01:57:39,440
Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in, and until next time, stay wired,

2156
01:57:39,960 --> 01:57:40,200
Speaker 1: Tell