WEBVTT - Striketober 2: The Aftermath with Kim Kelly 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:13.920 Podcast. All right, well I've done my job for the day. Wow, 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:16.680 if you've even by our standards, that's a that's an intro, 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:22.560 that's actually thank you. This is, of course it could 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:26.119 happen here a show about how things aren't going so great, 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:29.320 kind of falling apart, crumbling a bit, but also maybe 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:32.160 things could be better. That would be nice. Let's try 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:34.680 and do that. Today is one of the maybe things 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.360 could be better episodes. And we are talking about the 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:41.560 ongoing wave of strikes. We had strike Tober last month 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.360 with John Dear strikes and and and strikes uh and 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:48.640 like what you call it, a couple of different food companies, 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:51.479 a bunch of strikes um. And today we would like 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.080 to get an update on all the motherfucker's who are 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.880 out there striking for better conditions um and and better 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:02.320 treatment um and today, for that purpose, we've brought on 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:06.240 the great Kim Kelly. Kim, you are a journalist who 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:08.600 focuses a hell of a lot on labor. You've been 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:11.399 up and down to some of the cold strikes that 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:13.200 have been going on. You were there for the Amazon 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.880 attempt to form the union in um O Gez. Was 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:21.720 that Arizona um Alabama, Alabama. UM, and you're writing a 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.920 book on the history of labor um in the United States. 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:27.240 So I'd like to just kind of turn the floor 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:31.600 over to you. There's a four, there's okay, there's a floor. 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:35.160 There's the floor. It is filthy, just as it ends up. 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:38.160 You know, we're doing our best, aren't we ye weird? 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:42.080 Yeah you are, we are not I am. I'm trying 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.160 to keep up with all this labor action, this exciting action, 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:50.960 hot labor action, some hot labor action stories. So as 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:53.760 you mentioned, we're just kind of coasting off of the 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.920 peak of Striketober, which was such a fun thing to 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:59.880 kind of see explode in the mainstream consciousness. Like usually, 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.480 abor stories, they are a big deal to the people 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:04.960 that are involved in them and people in the labor 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:07.160 world who are watching and like rooting for them. But 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.720 they don't necessarily end up on like, you know, the 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.560 mainstream like that they end up on the TV. They 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.320 don't end up with like fancy old guys talking about 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:19.040 it on dateline or whatever. But that's something that happened, 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.200 and I think there's been a real shifting consciousness that 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.520 is a company that and of course you know, it's 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.079 like Striketober is fun. There's all these these big strikes 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.160 happening at the same time. But we of course need 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.000 to remember that that didn't happen in a vacuum. There's 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.440 people on strike now who have been on strike since before, 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:37.800 since before it was cool, right, since much earlier. Like 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.520 shout out to the St. Vincent nurses up in Massachusetts 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.079 and to the coal miners in Brookwood, Alabama, Warrior met 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:47.320 who have both been on strike for over eight months, 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:51.360 and they kind of right so literally like they're like 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:53.040 they're in the middle of their tour drives for their 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.880 children because they've been on strike for so long, and 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:57.560 they kind of got a little bit left out of 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.680 the conversation around strike tober and and I think that 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:02.200 just kind of shows that we need to be paying 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:05.200 attention even when it's not as flashy or new or exciting. 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.360 I mean strikes or was exciting. But you know, there's 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:10.640 a lot going on, and one of the things I 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:14.280 think is interesting and important, especially as we head into 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:18.480 strikes giving, which I guess we're doing. Yeah, strikes giving 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:22.919 strike Smiths, strike in time, day thank you very I 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:31.840 guess day forth strike you Lily, Yeah, yeah, it's it 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.480 gets worse Earl really until we get to labor day, 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.880 and by the Striker's Day, that one works pretty well. 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:42.280 I'm also a fan of striking Time's Day, um strike 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:46.160 and tized Day. That's cute. Well, that's right, baby, keep 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:53.040 this going. Yeah, strike strike. There's a missed opportunity there. 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:56.520 Although that that frightens me, Garrison that the band Ween 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:59.800 might go on strike, and I don't know, so we do. 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:03.280 We wouldn't have our we would we would be completely 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.520 out of Ween, our reserves. I Ween aren't going to 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:09.680 last long if they stop ends. Yeah, there's been a 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:12.720 tragic shortage of Ween for years now. I don't know 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.560 that we can handle the stripe. I mean, I didn't 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:17.760 realize you were a nerd, Robert. This is kind of 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:24.240 throw some things into question. Yeah, yeah, I mean, as 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.839 a heavy metal dirt bag, I'm like contractually obligated to 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:32.640 say things like that. But as I was pontificating a 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.800 minute ago, right, So, as we go into strikes giving, 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.600 there are still more big strikes on the horizon and 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.240 potential big strikes in the horizon. But part of the 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:44.240 story that I think is also very energizing and important 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.240 is the organizing that's happening in the new unions that 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.320 are hopefully gonna end up being formed, not necessarily as 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:53.560 a result of this wave of attention, but they're kind 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:55.680 of caught up in the tide. I mean, we look 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.919 at the Starbucks workers in Buffalo who have scared the 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.080 ship out of their doors to the point where they're 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:04.120 flying executives in to follow them around the store and 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:06.680 be like, please don't vote for reunion. We need all 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.719 of our billions of dollars we can't share. Or you know, 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.360 even workers at wire Cutter who are threatening to strike 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.440 on Black Friday and their whole thing is telling people 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:20.839 what's stuff to buy, you know, and McDonald's workers, and 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:22.720 I think ten different these are ten different cities of 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.919 ten different states, ten different locations just went out on 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:29.160 like a one day strike over sexual harassment in the workplace. 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.720 Kroger workers are taking a strike authorization vote in Texas. 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:37.200 We have multiple Amazon organizing attempts happening in Staten Island, 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.360 and a rerun of the election coming up in Bestmalabama. 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.120 And there's just so much happening that, you know, I 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:47.360 hope that the novelty idea of the strikes, tolder strikes 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:49.120 giving I hope like that was fun. But I hope 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:51.839 now that people are paying attention, that they stay interested 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:54.640 and realize that, you know, labor stories. Maybe it's not 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.640 necessarily always like a big strike or like a cool 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.680 picket line to look at, but there's a lot going on, 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:03.680 Like every story is a work story, every story is 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.680 a labor story, and people seem like they're finally catching 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.440 on the fact that you know, we're all workers and wow, 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:13.880 cool things happen when we come together. Yeah. I hope 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.839 that too, And I hope that um, you know, the 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:19.800 the word on everybody's lips, who's I don't know, coming 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:21.080 at this from kind of a little bit of a 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:25.240 more uh, either radical or desperate point of view, depending 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.719 on how you want to frame it. Is like general strike, 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:30.600 general strike, and you know, there's there's been some there's 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.640 been people online who keep saying like, Okay, well we're 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:37.160 all just gonna go on on Black Friday, everybody general strike, 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:38.880 And it's like, yeah, well you don't. You don't set 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.000 that up on Twitter. Like the the unions that are 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.520 striking now have strike funds and put a lot of 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.719 thought into it and have like had to take there's 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.360 things you have to do in order to not irresponsibly 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:53.120 like just screw over a bunch of working people. Um, 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.880 but it is like, I'm a believer in the potential 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.720 of something like a general strike to to forcing nificant concessions. 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.720 I mean, if we did it right, Yeah, I guess 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.720 I think if. I mean, it's a huge if because 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.240 it's never really effectively been like there's been pieces of 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.480 it done like we saw. I think the closest we've 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:17.440 gotten in like my lifetime has been when the the 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.680 airline workers threatened to go on strike over the over 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.000 the budget thing, and you just saw the federal government go, 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:27.760 oh fuck, nope, you know what, we can actually pass 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.520 this thing. I mean, that's the thing like that threat 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:34.600 that I think that was Sara Nelson said that even 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:37.280 like hinted towards that in twenty nineteen when the government shutdown. 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:39.120 That's sort of that was a tipping point. I think 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:42.640 that's the first time people, well really was well the 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:45.119 first time in many people's lifetimes that an actual labor 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.400 leader with that platform had even mentioned those words. Because 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.400 general like general strikes historically kind of are more situated 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.960 than that late nineteenth century, early twentieth century, like labor 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:58.240 swinging its stick around era and we've been kneecapped so 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.600 much that doesn't feel it is as possible. But I 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:03.680 mean the fact that she said, and she was part 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:06.560 of the airline industry. If we're ever going to actually 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.880 you know, bring capital to its knees, we're going to 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:12.800 need the transportation workers. We're gonna need the dock workers. 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.080 We're gonna need to like actually analyze who is moving 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.320 things around the country, who's making sure things work, and 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:21.880 how can we get them to put down to down 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.440 their tools and be like, Okay, we're gonna do something 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.400 about this. You know, the whole general strike idea, I mean, 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:29.960 I mean, and arguably like one of the first ones 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:35.240 was you know, Black reconstruction. They the book, there's a uh, 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:39.760 this argument that the first general strike was enslaved enslaved 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:44.640 people leaving the plantations and with drawing their labor from 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:47.720 that situation, like that was a form of striking. And 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.240 I think the general strike is kind of a morphous idea, 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.760 especially online as more people learn about labor and learn 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:55.079 about it, But it's also like kind of a specific thing, 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.040 like you can't just declare like, Okay, we're all not 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.280 going to go to work till more. Are like cool, 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.400 But there's so much planning that goes into it to 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.000 make sure that people are able to do that and 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:09.680 sustain that. And the people that are traditionally you know, 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.839 already left out were the most vulnerable and marginalize like 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.679 that their needs are prioritized because the people that can 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:19.520 afford to declare general strike and not show up for 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:21.880 a week, like that's all well and good for them, 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.600 but what about everyone else who can barely afford to 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.240 go to work at all? Yeah, I've had these arguments 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:31.280 with people online, and it's often like, well, you're saying 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.199 we shouldn't like if we just do it, people will 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.520 figure it out, like the infrastructure will be build after 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.720 the fact. And I'm like that's I'm glad that you're 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:40.880 in a situation where you feel like you could you 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.840 could handle that kind of uncertainty. But like a single 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:47.040 mother of four who relies on her job to like 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:49.319 keep them fed and alive, isn't going to be like 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:51.600 someone will figure out how to feed my kids, Like, well, 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:56.080 that's not how people work, you know. Yeah, this is 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.840 we're having like a robust commitment to mutual aid and 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:02.520 strike funds, and like an actual fabric, like having the 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.080 fabric of community where you can depend on your neighbors 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:08.560 instead of never talking to them, Like a general strike 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:12.480 would have a huge impact, but on who, Like who 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:15.240 would it hurt more if you didn't plan it properly, 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:18.600 if you didn't have if you didn't have an actual 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:22.000 grassroots network of people ready to help, if you didn't 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.080 need to understanding that not everyone can just go run 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.840 off in the streets. Some people like have mobility issues, 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.640 some people have children, some people are older or sicker. Like, 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:33.040 there's so much that goes into it. Yeah, it's like 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.000 your car is fucked up and you know you need 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.040 to take it in to get some stuff fixed, or 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.600 it's eventually going to break down entirely. But that doesn't 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:41.520 mean the right solution is just get in there and 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.400 start hitting ship with a hammer, like you need there 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.679 needs to be like some systemic way you approach it right, 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.920 Like there's a proper way to fix an engine, right, 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.559 and we can do that, Like we can start building 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:55.960 those networks. We can start you can organize your workplace 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:59.080 and plug into the into like the organized labor framework, 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.160 which obviously as many flaws, not as radical as I 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:03.880 would and many other people would like it to be. 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:08.199 But they know how to do this. Ship Like, there's 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:10.680 a lot of different pieces that can be pulled together 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.840 in different organizations and populations that need to work together 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.760 if we're actually going to accomplish something like this, And 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:19.320 I don't know if people are ready to put in 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:23.480 all that work because it's more fun to tweet. Yeah, 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:27.400 but I'm wondering, as they say in Alabama, bless their hearts, 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.320 You're you're spending a tremendous mman, as you just noted, 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.280 you're spending a tremendous amount of time on the ground 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.880 with a lot of these people talking with them. Are 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:39.520 you are you seeing kind of how how are you 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:41.920 hearing them talk about the other strike efforts you know 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:43.880 in other industries that are going on right now, because 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:45.760 it has been more in the news than it's been 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:47.720 at any point I can recall in the recent past. 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.400 And I'm wondering how in places like Bessemer, you know, 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:52.959 in places like um you know that coal miners strike 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:55.600 you've been at, like, how are they being are to 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.160 what extent are they talking about other strike efforts, Like 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.160 is that does that seem to be something that there's 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.440 a lot of kind of consciousness and discussion about or 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:04.640 is it just kind of in the background. I mean, 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:06.640 it really depends. I like you said, I've spent I 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:08.800 spent most of my time with the coal miners over 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:10.319 the past years. I've been writing a book and I 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:12.760 spent my one my one fun thing. But I've been 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:14.480 I mean I talked to them every single day, and 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:16.560 I've been to Alabama lots of times, and I you know, 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:19.040 I'm in a group chat with the wives, Like I know, 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.080 I have a decent grasp what was going on. And honestly, 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.640 the thing about it is that some there, there's some 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.360 folks who are very engaged and who have made twitters 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:28.920 and they have their Facebook groups, and they do pay 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.160 attention what's happening, and they do think they feel that 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:35.199 kind of excitement and that wide spread says its solidarity. 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.960 But one thing that's important to remember, especially for workers 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.440 who are already disadvantaged or they're dealing with low wage labor, 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.680 is like it's really hard to go on strike. Like 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:47.720 there's a lot of ship they have to figure out, 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.440 Like there's kids, there's health issues, there's how am I 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:52.840 going to pay my rent? Like, like funds are great, 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.679 but they don't cover everything. Like I think that's one 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.720 of the realities that maybe gets sort of glossed over 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.520 because we're also on line that we like to you 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.839 and me feel like, oh, everyone's fucking stoked about these strikes. 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.720 But for someone in rural Alabama who is just hoping 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:09.920 this strike is over soon so they can go back 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:13.479 to work and have some financial stability, they're not necessarily 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.920 reading your tweets or like signing up for webinars or 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:20.920 even paying attention to like cool other strike efforts. I'm 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.080 sure some some folks are aware and they find have 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:25.800 that time to plug in, but most people are just 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.240 trying to get by. And these are folks who have 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:30.280 spend like eight hours a day on the picket lines 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:32.520 and there's no cell phone service out where their picket 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:35.960 lines are, Like, there's only so much that a normal 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:39.079 regular worker on the picket line can do to keep up. 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.000 And um, you came into this, I think, unlike a 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.319 lot of the people who are who are actually striking, 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.640 you came into this with a lifelong history of the 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:54.199 like of interest in kind of uh, labor justice movements 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:56.679 and whatnot, which I don't think most people who are 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.120 in unions necessarily spend a ton of time studying the 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:03.640 last hundred years of labor relations Um, what has surprised you? Like? 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.160 What what have what? What has like been a new 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.199 realization that you've gotten since you started covering the stuff 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.760 on the ground in this most recent period. So the 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:14.760 thing that's really sticks with me and I'm going back 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.720 to my minors again because that's, you know, my where 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.360 the most familiarity, but something that I think has so 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.200 much potential and I'm not going to entirely sure how 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.240 to articulate what that potential is. But so something I 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.320 have seen is when this strike began, most not all, 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.960 but the majority of the folks involved in this particular strike, 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:37.080 or conservative Christian people who were a lot of voted 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:38.400 for trial, but a lot of them were like just 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:42.520 in that world, maybe not like you know, wild mega people, 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:44.880 but that's just what was the norm where they are 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.680 in their community. And then we'll think about that much. 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.800 But there are some people that I've seen, especially those 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:52.880 were involved in the mutual aid efforts or have been 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.320 who have seen Birmingham DSA come out who have kind 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:59.400 of taken this kind of like wider review of what's happening, 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.240 how they fit, and I've seen their politics and their 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.480 perspective shift, Like there are some people who are like 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.440 straight up socialists now that seven months ago would have 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.200 probably spit in your face or at least given you 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.600 a hell of a look if you wouldn't even suggested 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:16.960 such a thing. And this is a small sample size, 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.680 and this is a unique situation, but I think it 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:23.440 really speaks to the potential there to like reach people 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:28.120 who are very ideologically politically different from what we maybe 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.720 think of as labor people, as progressive, radical whatever people 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:35.280 on our team, right, But the power of the strike 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.480 and the power of labor is that there is so 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:41.880 much there. There's kind of an inherent common ground because 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.600 so many people, most people, a lot of people, most 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.120 people have a job, a lot of people hate their boss. 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.280 You can kind of build from that very very low 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:54.360 baseline and find more common ground, and kind of you 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:57.080 can you can work towards a better understanding, Like maybe 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:58.680 you're not going to be best friends, but you can 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:03.400 potentially shift someone's harmful worldview by exposing them to new 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.040 ideas once they trust that you're not just there to 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.480 tell them they're wrong and stupid and bad. Really, look, 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:12.480 we were coming at this like I'm going to talk 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.760 to you like a person. I understand we see the 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.080 world differently, but like you know, I'm here to support you. 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.160 I'm here listening to you. Maybe you could listen to 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.400 what I have to say too, Maybe it might change 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:28.160 how you see things. And sometimes it works. Yeah, yeah, um, 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:34.640 you know what else works? Kim blowing shut up? Well okay, 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:41.520 alleged allegedly um minecraft. Yeah, I was gonna say cap ads, 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:47.920 cap ads, m ads and services. Um, but I like 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:50.240 your answer better. So let's just let's just let's just 0:16:50.360 --> 0:17:03.880 roll out with that material support, right. Like another concrete 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.320 example there, the Birmingham DSA has been very active in 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.840 fundraising and showing up and just providing support for the 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:14.280 miners and and the people on strike. And this is 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:17.679 not necessarily a population of people that like the idea 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.320 of socialism, whatever idea of it is that they hold, 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.720 because Fox News and rusal In Barre are big cultural 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.840 stand bias there like whatever they think socialism is, and 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:29.639 then have a bunch of socialists show up and just 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:33.720 practice solidarity and mutual aiding practice socialism, and they're like, oh, 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:36.520 these guys are great, thank you for coming out and 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.439 things like that, where it's like, I feel like so 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:44.160 much of a radical politics in various you know, various tendencies. 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.199 There's just like a branding problem, and there's a propaganda 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:49.440 problem on the right wing, and the main sture media 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:53.520 doesn't tell anybody what anything means. Like, yeah, that's a 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.720 broader conversation, right, But yeah, I felt for a while 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.280 like one of the things that leftist organized just need 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.679 to get better at doing is being willing to like 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:07.720 drop names when they're not productive. Like, Okay, maybe these people, 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.160 because of the media environment, they've grown up and are 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.480 never gonna want to consider themselves socialists, But if they 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.720 are willing to organize together and support the efforts of 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:21.639 other working people to organize together against the capital holding class, 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.800 like then okay, Like what is it? Why do you 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.000 need them to like start quoting Carl Marx or is 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.679 it just cool that you've you've got them doing what 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.760 they like? Yeah? I that makes a lot of sense 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.280 to me that, like, yes, some that you can get 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:37.320 a lot of these people on board with again, pretty 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:41.159 radical things if you're if you're kind of approaching it 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.160 from within their world, from within, like I'm not trying 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:46.600 to talk to you about burning down the system. I'm 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:48.040 trying to talk to you about how you get what 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:49.879 you need. And it just so happens that how you 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:53.199 get what you need um is taking the system on 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.359 in a very direct way. I mean, so many ideas 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.720 that are painted as radical just like aren't like that's 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:04.280 normal people caring for him, like it is like community 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.040 care and common sense. It's just been politicized to this 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:11.919 insane extent, and even it's like, oh sorry, I'm just 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:13.200 like even like a lot a lot of the tenants 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:14.800 of mutual aid you can even see pop up in 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:18.240 a lot of like church communities as well, at least 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.280 like at least like smaller you know, closer knit like 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:22.520 communities that are actually based around helping each other at 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:24.720 least I was. I've observed that and a lot of 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.840 my time traveling across the States. Yeah, absolutely, that's a 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.200 huge part of it. Like the church is the only 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.080 mutual aid option in so many like smaller and more 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.520 ice li rural communities or just communities where the church 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:39.480 is a big deal, Like there's always ways to chip 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:43.600 away these institutions and eventually hopefully burned them down right 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.280 without alienating people and making them feel like you're coming 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:48.800 in and telling them everything you believe is wrong and 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.160 actually and making the mistakes. And of these folks, I'm 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.800 sure they believe things that are absolute garbage, and I 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:58.520 would never everybody, you know, like there's you know, but 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.359 there's there's just covering This strike in particular has really 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.600 just taught me a lot about the gray areas in between, 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:08.280 not in like I wish you watched a liberal way, 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:09.919 but just in a way of like, how do you 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.520 relate to normal fucking people who see the world differently 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.280 but are in ultimately the same struggle as you, Like, 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:20.320 maybe I could, I mean going down there. The only 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:22.639 time I've been around that many Trump supporters was like 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:24.800 at protests where I was yelling at them, or like 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:30.160 at my family dinners. So I wasn't, you know, I 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.479 wasn't expecting to make friends, But then I did, And 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:36.320 I think hopefully we've we've shifted each other's perspectives a 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:39.240 little bit in a way that's beneficial. I don't know, 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:43.639 it's been, it's been interesting. Yes, talking to people really 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:47.320 is a lot different than tweeting at them. Yeah, as 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:51.240 a rule, don't tweet would be my recommendation to people. 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:56.560 Never never talk to your neighbors and be nice to 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:58.719 people when you buy coffee or food from them, and 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:02.880 amazed what happens, and yeah, tell your neighbors. Hey, I'm 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:04.880