WEBVTT - JOHN OATES: "Pushin' A Rock" 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:08.840 So, how is January in this New Year three treating 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:11.920 you so far? My friend? Did it start with a bang? 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:14.440 Did you stay up all night on New Year's Eve? 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.400 Did you have a party? Did it start with a 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:23.319 purr or in my case a snore. I was just 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.080 getting over the stomach flu, so I was in bed early. 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.080 Or maybe you're having trouble getting it started at all. 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:34.080 Are you sticking to some resolutions, maybe following through on 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:38.000 some good intentions. Maybe, like me, you're just trying to 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.000 make the most of each day. I am trying to 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:46.560 be emotionally present in each and every day, and I'm 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.120 looking forward to some upcoming events, maybe a few things 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:54.680 that you have circled on the calendar. Maybe this is 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:57.400 one of those days that you're listening to this podcast. 0:00:57.440 --> 0:00:59.680 It's certainly one of those days for me because I 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:03.240 get to speak to a rock icon. John Oates is 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.119 half of the best selling duo of all time, Hall 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.319 of Oates, Darryl Hall and John Oates. I met them 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:13.840 decades ago. But did you know he's also an accomplished 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:16.880 solo artist. Did you know he's a member of the 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:21.200 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the American Songwriters Hall 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:27.080 of fame, a recipient of numerous industry awards, has multiple 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:31.280 Grammy nominations under his guitar strap, and as a hell 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.440 of a nice guy. Since partnering with Darryl Hall in 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.720 the early seventies, there twenty one albums have sold over 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:43.320 eighty million albums, making them the most successful duo in 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:48.520 rock history. They've scored ten ten number one records over 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:52.000 twenty top forty hits. They've toured the world over and 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:55.880 over many times over the last four decades. Their involvement 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.400 in the original Live Aid and That We Are the 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:05.200 World Charity recording established them as legendary artist and very charitable. 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.920 John Oates embarked on a solo career back in He 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.760 has since recorded seven solo albums with The Good Road Band. 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:19.680 In addition, his seventeen autobiography Change of Season became an 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.920 Amazon bestseller. Today, we're gonna be talking about his most 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:27.760 recent release. It is a single and I just listened 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:30.200 to it before I came into the studio. I listened 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.240 to it a couple of times over the last week, 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:34.000 and then I listened to it again just a minute ago. 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:37.840 It's called Pushing a Rock, and we're going to catch 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.360 up with John Oates and what he has planned for 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.600 this new year. And I want to talk specifically about 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.680 this song because when I listened to the lyrics of it, 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:51.480 it seems so apropos for the times we are living 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.840 in right now, pushing a rock. So that is what 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:57.160 we're gonna be talking about. First, I'm going to shine 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.639 a little light and share a little love with one 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:04.080 of my podcast sponsors. If you're going to wear glasses, 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.639 there's one brand of frames. 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Nobody claimed it, so 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.880 Freckles was a part of our family for many years, 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.680 which didn't A couple of things brought a lot of 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:52.360 of a number two. Every time I would look at Freckles, 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:54.280 I would think of the great time I had at 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:58.800 your show. Awesome, Well that's that's great. You deliver so 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.680 much energy on sta age. Well, well we've we've been 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.640 doing it a long time, so uh yeah, it's it's 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:10.000 been quite a ride. How many years, oh more than fifty, 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:13.520 believe it or not. That's amazing. And you look found crazy. 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.000 Are you still up in the Seattle area? I am. 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.559 I am. I'm in the basement of my home, which 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:23.120 is only seven miles outside of Seattle as the crow flies, 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:25.800 but the crow has to fly over water, and so 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:28.599 it's like it feels like it's a million miles away. 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.920 I got When I try to get my family or 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.880 anybody to come to the farm, they're like, oh, I 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:38.000 gotta ride the ferry or drive around. So you gotta 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.920 drive seventy five miles to come to my house. If 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.520 you drive around, well, it's a beautiful area, that's that's 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.600 for sure. And he is where it's home for you. 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.400 We just how we were in Colorado for the last 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.280 month and we just literally flew back last night. We're 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:54.440 back in Nashville now. So we divide our time between 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:58.640 Nashville and our house in Colorado. Not not bad areas 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:00.800 to divide your time. It's lane, you know. I think 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:05.680 we picked two good spots. Yeah. So are you a skier? Yes, 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:07.600 I've been a skier for my whole life, since I've 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:10.560 been a kid. But I've kind of I've dropped. I've 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:12.880 dropped off going down the mountain. Now now I just 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.040 do cross country skiing. I love it. I've I've I've 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.920 kind of got hooked on skate skiing, Nordic skate skiing, 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:20.840 and that's what I do and I just stay fit 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.279 that way and I don't get I don't hit a tree, 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:26.760 I don't get hit by a wild twenty year old snowboarder. 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:30.640 So yeah, so that's a good thing. Wow. I didn't 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.200 try the Nordic skate skis, but I tried cross country 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:36.600 skiing a few times with some very fit friends. Were like, oh, dear, 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:40.400 you're gonna love this. This is great, such a great workout. 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.080 And I'm like, what is great about this? I'm dying. 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:47.240 I am dying. It's strenuous, but once you you kind 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:49.800 of get over the hump, it's, um, it's a fantastic 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.120 I mean you can go out for thirty minutes and 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.560 you just get the most amazing workout in the world. 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:57.600 Your lungs, your legs, your arms, your shoulders. I mean, 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.679 it's it's great. I never got over the humps because 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:03.679 you have to work at it a bit. Yeah, yeah, 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:05.799 I was dying. I like to put on the skis 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:07.680 I haven't done it in a few years, and then 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:13.960 go really fast downhill's realizing at any moment I could die. 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:16.320 And that's why I don't go on the mountain anymore, 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:20.200 because of people like you, like yeah, who like to 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:26.120 go really fast and have no control whatsoever. So it's like, uh, 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:29.560 it's that adrenaline rush. Yeah, well I used to love it. 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.400 I've skid. I skied my whole life. So but now 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.440 now it's a My new philosophy is my life is 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:38.640 my My goal is to go out walking. That's a 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.640 good goal. That's a lofty goal. It's simple, but it's 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:45.440 very simple, and I probably will go out walking. I 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.520 will probably be walking, step on a rake that hits 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:52.400 my head, you know, fall over, Like I'm sure I'm 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:56.160 going to have a non glorious exit when God calls 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:59.760 me home. Well, I hope not. I hope. I wrote. 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:01.320 I wrote a book and in it I said, I'm 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.200 not afraid of being dead. I'm not afraid of death 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:08.560 at all. It's the getting their process that doesn't thrill me. 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.240 I understand. Uh No, we want to do a podcast 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.720 John Oates about you, about your amazing music, about your 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.320 new song, which I've listened to a couple of times, 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:25.920 the visual with it, was very artistic, but the lyrics 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.200 of it I was I was grooving on the lyrics. 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.360 I had to actually stop watching the video because my 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.240 brain can't concentrate on two things like that at once. 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:38.199 To listen to the lyrics. Well, good, I'm glad you 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.480 listen to the lyrics. I I put a lot of 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.160 f time and effort into the lyrics are very important 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:45.360 to me. I I wanted to try to say something 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.760 that was, you know, at least profound from my point 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:52.040 of view, and also something that was very heartfelt and 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.640 of the moment for the type of thing that I'm 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.880 kind of thinking about in my life right now. So 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.079 so tell us about that and and what bri you 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.760 to push in a rock Well, First of all, the 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:04.959 gestation of the song goes way back. It goes back 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.720 to two thousand fourteen. I was doing an album called 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:10.880 Good Road to Follow, and the constant the whole theme 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:12.240 of the album was that I was going to work 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.240 with various producers and songwriters and kind of get into 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:18.080 their heads and do something perhaps that would be something 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.120 outside the musical box that I would normally do. I 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.800 worked with Vince Gill and Ryan Tedder from One Republic 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.920 and a young pop group and Hot Shell Ray and 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:28.559 all and all sorts of people. And one of the 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:33.760 people I collaborated with was Nathan Paul Chapman, who was 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:36.760 the Taryllor Swift's original producer. He started with her when 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.680 she was a teenager, and he did her original demos 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:43.360 and got her her original contract and produced the first 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:46.640 I least leave three or four albums for Taylor. Um 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:48.920 but at the time I'm around to fourteen is when 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:51.200 Taylor decided to go in a different musical direction and 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.040 work with other people. And so I thought, well, that 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:56.559 must must be a kind of a pretty traumatic thing 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:59.520 to lose that gig, so to speak, as a producer. 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:01.680 And I called him up and I you know, checked 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:03.120 him out. I said, hey, man, how are you doing? 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:06.000 He goes, I mean creative, uncharted waters. I don't know 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:07.920 what I'm gonna do. And I said, well, how about 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.400 if we start by writing a song. And I went 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:13.040 over to his house and I had this idea about struggle, 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:15.960 about overcoming something. I didn't know what that was going 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:18.480 to be, and I used the the old Greek myth 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:22.400 of Sysiphus too uh to talk about the fact that 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.040 you know everyone in their life has struggles. No matter 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:28.040 where you are, who you are, your level of success 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.600 or whatever, it doesn't matter. You're still gonna have to 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:33.920 overcome something. And that was the overarching theme to the 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.040 to the idea we wrote the song um and you know, 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.760 I'll take full credit or responsibility for the fact that 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.679 the record really didn't come out very well. I like 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.880 the song, I thought the lyrics were really great, but 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:49.040 I didn't think I did a very good job producing 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:52.640 the actual song itself. So flash forward now to the 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.600 COVID time, and I'm sitting around the house looking at 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.400 old songs and figuring out what I'm gonna do, and 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.920 I I stumbled back upon the original song from two 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.839 thousand fourteen, and I said, you know what, this lyric 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.679 is so good and it's so important now. It's just 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:11.360 as is and as pertinent and and as important now 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:14.520 during this COVID period that even more perhaps than it 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.440 was back into fourteen. So I basically rewrote the song. 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:21.480 I just scrapped the music completely, use the words basically 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:26.920 in in its their entirety, and rewrote the song and 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:32.320 re recorded it. And then I called Nathan and I said, hey, man, surprise, surprise, 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.559 I rewrote the song we wrote and I hope you 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:37.719 like it, and he freaked out and he said, man, 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:39.559 this is amazing. He said, this is how it always 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.000 should have sounded. So it was really great to know 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.120 that he was, you know, really on board. Um, And 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.200 so now I feel really proud of the whole package, 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:51.280 not only the lyrics but the music that accompanied. So 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:55.000 that was like an eight year pregnancy. Yeah, I guess 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:58.440 you could call it that, but the gestational process that 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:02.240 took longer an elephant, I know. But the good part 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:04.080 of that eight years is that I didn't know I 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.800 was pregnant for that eight years. I didn't care about 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:11.560 the song until I revisited it. So yeah, if I 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:14.080 would have been you know, stewing over and marinating it 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:16.840 for for eight years, yes, that would have been traumatic 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.840 for sure. Well I did not know that back story, 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:25.040 but when I listened to it, I thought that it 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.520 was written for and about what we went through with, 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:32.360 you know, the COVID shutdowns. So it's like it was 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.400 in a way, you guys were profits, you know what 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:37.719 I mean. Like, well, you know, sometimes you get a 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:42.240 universal theme, something that transcends, uh, you know, time, and 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:44.839 and that's what that is. You know every here again, 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.800 struggle is a is a human condition that that that 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:51.120 we all deal with and we have dealt with historically 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:55.080 through to the beginning of time. I'm sure, uh so, yeah, 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.400 I mean it's here again. It's it was such a 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.439 universal theme that um, it just needs at the right 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:02.800 musical setting to to really bring it put it over 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:07.400 the top. And you have been actively working I understand 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:12.000 my notes say with November. Yes, we just finished a 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.920 big promotion for in during the month of November just 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:17.839 that recently passed. Uh yeah, Movember is a great on 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.720 male health, mental health and um you know physical health 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.600 organization that that it really doesn't get the the the attention. 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.720 I believe that it should. Um, and they asked me 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:30.440 to be part of it. You know. It has to 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.840 do with men growing mustaches and solidarity of of all that, 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.800 and of course me having you know the mustache guy. 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.720 You know over the years your your mustache is very 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:44.440 understated right now. Well, it's just over the years it's 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.920 been you know when I first met you, I first 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:52.960 met you back in I want to say night at 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.800 Kale s Y in Seattle. You guys came through on 0:13:55.840 --> 0:14:00.360 a record your mustache was really big then, well yeah, 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.199 but it was. It was big, but it was black, 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.200 you know, because my hair was black. So you know, 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.880 now it's gray, so it has a little more subtlety. Yeah, 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:13.520 it's very subtle, very very nice, very handsome. Thank you so. 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:17.720 About November and why you decided to team up with them. 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.240 We knew it in Oregon as no shave November, and 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:23.760 it's kind of more left in a November. And it 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:26.160 wasn't just a mustache you had to do. The guys 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.160 had to do the whole no shade period. Yeah, it's 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.960 a whole thing. And you know, it's the organization started 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.600 in England. Um. You know, over in England they call 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:36.800 the one of the you know, the kind of the 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.840 slangs for mustaches is a mo you've got a mo 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.360 they call it instead of they don't use the word stash, 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.720 they just say mo um. And that's where November kind 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.880 of started. And I met with the people who the organizers. 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.400 They're really cool. They were really cool. They had some 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:55.400 great ideas about ways of communicating that uh, that men 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:58.600 should be more cognizant of of what's going on and 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.800 with them physically and mentally and there's a big issue 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.480 with that. And I think, you know, the thing that 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.120 kind of really pushed me to want to do it, 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:09.760 even more than the fact that it was a great organization, 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.320 was the fact that I realized that the women's health 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:16.400 movement is very proactive and very uh the women seem 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.600 to have been able to communicate the idea of breast 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:23.920 cancer and some of the other things that are important 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:27.560 healthy hard month for health exactly, and and done in 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.520 a really powerful way, in a really effective way. And 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.760 I don't think the men's health movement has ever been 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:37.280 really uh promoted in that way. So I thought, you know, 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.840 maybe by you know, if I if I'm involved, maybe 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:43.480 I could help a little bit. Men's health physically is 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:47.280 talked about in my family and my surroundings heart attacks 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.400 and heart disease and diabetes and that sort of thing. 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:56.800 But men's mental health taboo. Yeah, taboo topic. I don't 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:58.720 know if it's just my family but the whole nation, 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:03.160 but big time taboo topic for men and boys to 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.600 talk about their mental health and where they're at or 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.760 if they should help or if they're struggling. It's a 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:12.760 you know, it has a little bit too, maybe a 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:14.800 lot to do with the you know, with the macho thing, 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.760 and men just don't tend to want to open up 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.600 on certain subjects like that. You know, it can be 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.080 can be viewed, or it has, at least traditionally be 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.080 viewed as as um you know, kind of a sign 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.080 of weakness kind of thing. But it's not true. And 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.880 and I think what I did see in the course 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.800 of being more involved with this was that the younger 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.560 generation is much more open and much more accepting. And 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.520 you see it with entertainers, you see it with sports people. 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:45.360 The younger generation are definitely much more open to addressing 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.600 it and being more public about it and being more 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.000 outspoken about it. So that's I guess that's a good 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.080 sign because I think it's turned. I think I think 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:57.040 the older generation of men, especially very close mouth and 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.240 you know, not wanting to do with that sort of thing. 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.880 So do you relate more to the younger generation. Are 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:07.360 you more comfortable talking about struggles you might be facing 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:11.880 or may have faced, or are you more like like 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.280 our generation where you don't talk about it, don't bring 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.399 it up. Well, I think I think a little of both. 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:20.760 I think over the years, a lot of things that 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:25.359 I that I experienced in my personal and professional life 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:30.080 over the years have been you know, rather traumatic and 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.520 mentally challenging. But a lot of that I never really 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.760 wanted to talk about. UM. But now as I've gotten older, 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.439 and I feel like, UM, I feel like if I 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:41.879 can be you know, a beacon in a in a sense, 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.879 or you know someone who you know, Hey, I here's 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.360 this older guy who has been through a lot, had 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.280 a lot of experiences in life, and maybe that that 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:53.240 carries some weight UM. And so I'm much more open 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.960 now about talking about things that that you know, that 0:17:56.080 --> 0:18:10.280 I had that were challenging for me. So biggest challenge 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:15.400 that you feel you've overcome that you're comfortable sharing with 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.679 our audience, biggest thing that you just slapped you in 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:20.840 the face. Maybe you never saw it coming, or maybe 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:23.879 you did and just thought you could handle it until 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:26.199 you know you were sysophus and said I can't. I 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:28.960 can't push this rock another day. I got it on 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:32.480 my shoulder and even with cross country skiing, I cannot 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.840 carry this wait another day. Well, that's one of the 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:38.840 reasons I do get outside and go cross country skiing 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:40.720 and biking and hiking to kind of clear my mind. 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.880 But that being said, um, I think you know, that's sure. 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:45.760 There were a number of things. You know, if you've 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:47.600 been through them, if you've been in the music business 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.879 for fifty years, you've experienced a lot of stuff. You know. 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:55.560 I don't know, what's that great Hunter Thompson quote. You know, 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.800 the music business is this long tunnel of you know, 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:01.239 de seat and blood, blah blah blah blah, and then 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:03.159 he goes through all these terrible things and then at 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:05.159 the end he says, and then there is a negative 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.320 side and then there you know, you know the one 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:10.640 I'm I'm telling it very well. I wish I had 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:13.080 it in front of me anyway. Um No, but here's 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.560 the thing. You know, overall, what I think that was 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:22.119 the most uh powerful lesson and the powerful, um you 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:25.040 know thing that's happened to me over the years was 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:29.040 putting trust in people, uh and then having that trust 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:33.040 not turn out quite so well and really, you know, 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:35.720 being being a little too. I think it's my nature. 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:37.879 I like to try to see the good in people. 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:40.960 I like to believe that people are inherently good. And 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.760 when you when you're a person like that, you can 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:47.080 be easily manipulated and taken advantage of. And it has 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.160 a lot to do with business, but it also has 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:51.200 a lot to do with create, with with the creative 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:54.639 collaborations with people who you thought, you know, hey, this 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:57.320 will be a great situation. Seems like a you know, 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:00.600 a good situation. So um, I think just in general, 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.280 without going into specifics, um, you know, just the idea 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:09.080 of of of having your your trust not be reciprocated 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.840 and and having it used kind of in a way 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.359 to manipulate situations. I think that's that's the best I 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.239 can say. And when it's somebody that you've worked with 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:21.840 for a long time, or like you said, somebody you're 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.680 collaborating with, and you're excited and then you're like, wait 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:28.800 a minute, you're using my my goodness and my good 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:33.679 heart hurts. Yeah. Well, you know what though, it's a 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:37.120 it's it's life lessons and you know, you you uh. 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:40.480 The best thing about that's those type of situations is 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:43.159 if you can if you can rebound from them, you know, 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:46.320 in in one piece and you can learn from them 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:48.480 and then move on. And you know, I'm I'm a 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.800 big I'm a big believer in karma and I'm a 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:55.040 big believer in UH letting things go and UH accepting 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:57.680 certain things and then moving on from them. And it's 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:01.399 important to move on. It's important to uh when you know, 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:04.000 when you're pushing the rock up hill, it rolls back down, 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:08.040 and just roll with it, keep on going, keep on going. Yeah, well, 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:14.080 I just go play. I can't handle this. I gotta 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:16.639 go do an art piece of art. I gotta go paint. 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:18.640 I gotta go walk my horse. I gotta go out 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:20.560 in the barn. There you going on the same way 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:22.639 I go. I go up in the mountains. Uh Or 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:25.760 I just pick up my guitar and strum away and 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:27.960 uh or I go for a drive in the country. 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:31.040 I love to drive. I'm an ex race driver, and 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.479 I love to drive on a country road with nothing 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:37.199 but the sound of the wind. And uh, you know 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:40.280 that's a that's a therapy for me. Uh sounds wonderful. 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:44.800 My my podcast producer knows a lot of people in 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:48.639 the record industry, and one of those people, UH said 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:51.040 to her when she was setting up this interview for 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:54.760 me that Darryl holland John Oates are two of the 0:21:54.960 --> 0:22:00.879 most musically talented geniuses that you know. There's other names 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.440 that you might recognize bigger or who are big hits 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:09.840 right now. But he said that you are a talented genius. 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.040