WEBVTT - Who's Up For A Circular Economy 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:07.680 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.760 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:17.280 Chuck and Jerry'll be here eventually, but for now, all 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:20.120 you got is Josh and Chuck. But really, what more 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:22.279 do you need? Ton of stuff you should know? 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:25.960 Yeah, in our world, in about two or three minutes, 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.960 Jerry will just come in and go, hey, I'm here, gos, Sorry, 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:30.320 I'm late. 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.000 I feel like she's learned not to do that. She'll 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:37.480 just sit there on mute for a while. Really, yeah, 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:41.560 she hasn't done it in a little while. She's really 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:45.920 turned over a new leaf. All right, we'll see, we'll see. 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:48.479 We should leave it in if she does come in, Yeah, 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.320 we should do that. We'll share with everybody. 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:54.320 Except they'll just hear our ends. Although here is oh god, Jerry. 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:57.000 Well, no, I think as she chimes in on riverside, 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.520 we could edit that into the final all. 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:01.120 Right, edit. This will be a fun test. 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:04.160 It will be and there's a little peak behind the 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:07.520 curtains for everybody of how we do our thing slap dash, 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:11.320 that's right while making fun and Jerry. 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:13.280 Yeah, hey, I just noticed we were not on the 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.199 list of time magazine's one hundred greatest podcast of all time? 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:18.120 What really? 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.200 Yeah, it was funny because I saw that list and 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:24.600 my first instinct was, I mean, top one hundred, Like 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:28.240 that's a lot, Like, surely we cracked the top one hundred. 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:30.280 They probably haven't heard of us, is what it is. 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:33.319 Now. We're not on there. Literally all of our old 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:37.240 time colleagues, you name it, Radio Lab ninety nine percent invisible, 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:42.000 Ira Maren like every podcast of note of the past 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:44.640 eighteen years except for spe Wow. 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:47.000 That's very stuff you should know, isn't. 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:48.360 It It is? It is very fitting. 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:50.160 We don't let that stuff get to us. 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.600 So do we know Time magazine who cares? 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.400 Yeah? And even though they put out a stupid podcast list. 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.000 Yeah, watch, we're going to be Men of the Year. Now. 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:03.120 The headline on the cover will be like, oh gosh, 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:03.840 we forgot. 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:07.400 Well you'll be Man of the Year, but I won't 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:08.919 be mentor That's how it would work. 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:12.880 That's what Time does. They tinker with relationships by dividing. 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:16.960 That's right. Speaking of tinkering, I think we could all 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.280 tinker with our worldwide economy a bit and perhaps make 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:21.000 it more circular. 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:23.160 What are you talking about? 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:27.520 Well, Josh, I'm talking about our topic at hand, mhm, 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:29.359 talking about circular economy. 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:32.000 My friend, Oh, I got I didn't get the reference. 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:38.280 M So have you heard of this before? Uh yeah, okay, yeah, 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:40.679 I ran across it. As far as I know, it's 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:44.040 fairly new from the two thousand aughts. I didn't see 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:46.880 that it was an idea that was laying around already 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.399 in this exact form and then was picked up and promoted. 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:55.280 So it's possible it was generally created by the Ellen 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:56.480 MacArthur Foundation. 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:58.679 Hats off to Ellen MacArthur. 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.680 Yeah. So, Ellen MacArthur, as far as I know, still 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:06.760 holds the world record for the fastest solo sail trip 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:11.360 around the entire world, twenty six thousand miles of circumnavigation 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.960 circular in seventy two days. Yeah, she loves circles and 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.040 apparently on her trip. I was reading about it. It 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.440 sounds just insane. And by the way, whenever I read 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.320 of like world sailing trips, I can't help but think 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.000 of one of the best documentaries of all time, Deep 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:30.720 Water about Donald Crowhurst. I believe you've seen it before. 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:34.360 I know we've talked about it. Oh, if you haven't 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:36.680 seen it, I actually envy you. 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:38.600 Is this the guy h the diver? 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.560 Nope, he's a sailor. There was about like a nineteen 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:46.360 seventy five World Sailing competition. 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.000 So he was, mi, is it deep water if he 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:48.840 wasn't deep in the. 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.680 Water, because he's he's sailing over deep water. 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:53.920 Oh, over DeepArt. They should call it over deep water. 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:55.800 You sailing over deep water? 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.240 You should actually all wait, but let's just pause recording 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:00.800 and go watch it. Is that good? 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:04.280 I'll look into that. I've been on a documentary kick lately, 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:06.200 so I'll I'm ripe. 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:08.600 This is time. Would put this one on their top 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.800 one hundred documentaries of all time probably, so yeah. So 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.240 while she was sailing around the world, she just started. 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.320 She had, I guess, a lot of time to think 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.440 and saw a lot of waste and junk and terrible 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:23.040 stuff and realize that there's a better way. And a 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:25.200 lot of people have thought like, Okay, there's a better 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:27.960 way to do this. There has to be. And what 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.800 she promotes, what she's kind of come up with is 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:34.679 this idea of a circular economy. In a very short 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:38.479 back of the envelope sketch of it, the outputs, the 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:44.279 waste of the economy get reused as inputs as basically 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:47.400 turned into aw materials, and people say, oh, recycling, that's 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:49.800 a big part of it. But as far as the 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.599 circular economy is concerned, we idealize recycling like we're like, 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:55.720 that's the best you can do. They're like, that's actually 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:57.919 the least desirable out of all of them. There's a 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:02.920 bunch of other stuff we can do instead. So circular economy. 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:06.200 Yeah, I mean it sort of aligns with the whole reduce, reuse, 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:10.400 recycle ethos. I think we could best explain it by 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:14.359 maybe starting with what we generally have now, which is 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:18.719 linearar economy. And that's who helped us with this. Dave. 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:20.800 Yeah, Dave helped us. 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:24.920 Yeah, it's smacks of Dave, but Dave calls it and 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.320 Dave didn't invent this term. But it's a take make 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:31.960 waste economy system where you take resources and you know whatever, 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:36.120 like cotton or any kind of raw material, you make 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:38.480 something into that to a product to sell to people, 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:43.080 and then that thing maybe generally quickly wears out and 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.039 you throw it away and it goes into a landfill. 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:50.080 It's very I mean, it's kind of the worst possible 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.599 scenario you could ask for if you care about planet 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.600 Earth and people in the world and animals in nature. 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.720 And it's linear because it goes in one way. You 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.160 have something, you make something, and then that thing wears 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:03.599 out and you throw it in the landfill. 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.120 Yeah, you take the cotton that you grow, you make 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:09.240 it into a car. You drive the car into a 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.120 landfill and jump out right before it goes over the cliff. 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:13.599 That's what everybody does. 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:14.200 That's right. 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.640 So you left out, kick back and watch the money 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.120 roll in, because that's ultimately what the biggest challenge to 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.400 implementing a circular economy is. One of the biggest ones 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.600 is that the linear economy that we have set up 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.800 that's been around since the Industrial Revolution is a money 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:35.719 making machine. And it's easy to criticize when you sit 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.400 there and look at all of the terrible waste and 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:44.400 pollution and inequality that's been generated from it. You can 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:48.239 also say, yeah, this wealth has funded a lot of science, 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:51.799 it's improved a lot of living conditions. Even the poorest 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:55.120 people in America are living high on the hog compared 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:59.360 to the poorest people in other nations, like the wealthy 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.320 nations have really done well for themselves with the linear economy, 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:05.480 and again that's a big reason why there's a lot 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:08.520 of reticence to transition to something different. 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:16.400 Yeah, for sure, there are some you know, notable I'm 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:18.480 trying to think of a term we could come up 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.320 with that labels instead of a gold star, like an 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:24.080 industry that gets the opposite of that, like a turd 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:25.000 pin or something that. 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.760 You wear that worn't so much tird. But yes, that 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:30.000 would work very well. 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.040 Do you know what makes turd worse is that it's 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:33.280 spelled t rd. 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.480 Yes, that definitely does make it worse. Everything about that 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:37.840 word is so bad. 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:43.120 Yeah, totally, totally. So the four sectors that are sort 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.720 of the worst are food, electronics, consumer goods, and construction. 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.360 Food obviously, and we're going to get into these, you know, 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.560 more specifically as we go on, but generally speaking, food 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:55.600 is a pretty terrible sector. And we've talked about food 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.640 waste before, but it's not just the food waste that's 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.400 like tossed by grocery store and restaurants and stuff like that, 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.360 but it's also you know a lot of places still 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.440 are just using those single use bags and people are like, sure, 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:09.440 double back it triple back it. I don't want my 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:11.960 tube of two face to fall through that thing into 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:14.800 the parking lot, and then all the packaging that goes 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:16.880 into it. And we've you know again, we've covered all 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:22.160 this stuff in various forms here and there. Unsustainable farming, electronics. 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:26.320 Don't even get me started on electronics. Recycling and electronics 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:31.480 that are basically impossible to repair or get repaired. 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:34.360 Well, they're designed that way. If we did an entire 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.199 episode on that planned obsolescence. 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:40.079 And nothing gets me more mad. Almost. 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:45.640 Yeah, when a company purposefully designs a product to break 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:48.839 in a short amount of time, like they'll put some 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:52.120 sort of sensor or electrical component next to something that 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.480 generates a lot of heat so that it degrades faster, 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.240 Like it's designed to break for you to throw away 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:02.120 and then go buy another one. That's a big problem. Yeah, 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:06.080 like you said with electronics, But clothing is another one too. 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:10.040 It's designed to just be worn. You buy it cheaply, 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.400 you wear it for a little bit, you throw it away, 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:14.520 and we'll, like you said, we'll talk more about this 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:17.280 stuff later. But my eyes started popping out when I 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:18.560 was reading about clothing. 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:22.079 Yeah, that's one for sure. And then construction. A lot 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:27.320 of resources used in construction and you know, basically construction 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:32.320 materials anytime we've done any sort of like renovation project. 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:33.760 Because you know, we live in like a hundred year 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:36.200 old house, so we instead of moving, we kind of 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.280 stayed and fixed it up over the years, at first 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:40.200 by ourselves and then with you know the help of 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.319 contractors and such. And as you know you've been through 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.040 stuff like that, it's like when that construction dumpster pulls up, 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.120 we do everything we can. We fight tooth and nail 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:50.920 to give stuff away, Like, hey, can you put all 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.400 these awesome hundred year old bricks out by the sidewalk. 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:57.679 Someone will take them and you know they will acquiesce. 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.599 You know, they hate dealing with us because they just 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:02.320 want to throw that stuff in the dumpster. But we've 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:04.800 managed to get rid of a you know, we're going 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:06.640 through a little thing now. And I had this really 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:11.319 awesome screen door and they were literally throwing this really 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:13.720 nice screen door. It was like a good one. It 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:15.440 wasn't just like a forty dollars screen door. 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:17.080 It was like a Prada screen door. 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.240 No, this is Gucci, I think, no. But it was 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.800 like a from like a craftsman company for craftsmen homes. 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.960 It was sort of like an upscale screen door, and 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.280 they were throwing at the trash and almost tackle the guy. 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:31.880 And I put that thing out there and it was 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:34.120 gone in an hour, you know. And I bet just 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.040 little things like that make me feel like, oh God, 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:38.760 I saved one little thing from the landfill. 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:40.000 Nice work man. 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:41.880 Not for a pat on them back, but you know 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:42.520 what I mean, It. 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:43.800 Just it's a conservant. 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:50.000 It just kills our consciences, just burning up when they're 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:52.080 throwing away, even old wood and stuff. You know. I 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:53.920 try to take that stuff to the camp and burn it. 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:56.880 You know what I found. When you're dealing with contractors 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.400 and subcontractors, if you want them to do something, you 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:02.199 have to tell them directly, yeah, and a kind of 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.559 an authoritative voice and then finished also with chop chop. 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.800 Yeah. And also stand there and watch them because as 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.280 soon as you leave, they'll just say like whatever, dude. 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:16.360 Yeah for sure, yeah for sure. Okay, So you guys 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:21.640 out there listening probably have bloody crescent shape fingernail marks 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:24.040 on the heel of your palms from hearing all this stuff. 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:26.520 So just settle down, relax a little bit, because now 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:28.120 we're going to tell you a little bit about an 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:33.040 alternative to that, the closed loop model, not linear circular, 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:38.080 the circular economy, and it basically says it takes a 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:40.880 look at everything wrong with the linear economy and fixes 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:44.800 it one by one. And it's like there's a lot 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:48.720 left open. It's not like this is just a like 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:53.480 a completely ready to go economic model. It's going to 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:56.080 solve every single problem and it's not going to create 0:11:56.080 --> 0:12:01.160 any other problems. It's more we're at the most conceptual star. Yeah, 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.120 that is being presented to people to say, hey, there's 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.520 another way, and here are some of the ways we 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:07.040 can do it. 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:09.960 Yeah, And it's sort of just the opposite of everything 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:12.400 we were just saying. Instead of planned obsolescence, there's a 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.480 planned Permanen's like, hey, let's make something that lasts for 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:22.520 a long time. That's one. Makes something that's repairrable. That's another. One. 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:24.120 Really kind of brilliant thing that we're going to talk 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:28.120 about later is this idea of instead of owning something 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:33.920 like sharing stuff, renting things, sharing things, paying for the 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:36.920 use of things that you don't own, right, like, you know, 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:41.280 splitting that up and then if something finally does reach 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.480 the end of its life, because not everything will last forever, 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:47.080 even the most well made thing. Those components then you 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:50.600 can take down and hopefully most of not all of 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.280 that can be recycled or remade into something else. 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:58.000 Yeah, and if you'll notice, reduction of consumption isn't an 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.000 emphasis of this. I didn't see that talked about much 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.640 at all. So no one's saying like, hey, you can't 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:08.160 keep growing. It's just that the stuff that you're creating 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.720 needs to last much, much longer, and the greatest thing 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.280 you can do is to keep it as close to 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.280 the consumer as possible. Right, So let's say you have 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.520 a hammer. Everybody knows a hammer breaks, like the second 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:21.559 time you ever use it. 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.960 Would you hammer in the morning more of the evening 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:25.360 for me? 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.440 Okay, but I would do it all over the land, right, 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:33.240 So when you take a hammer, I was kidding about 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.520 it breaking. But if you have a hammer and you 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.360 don't use it a lot, the best you could do 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:40.120 is give it to somebody else who is going to 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:42.679 use it more, rather than throw the hammer away. That's 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.440 a terrible example. I know people don't really throw hammers away, 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:50.000 but keeping it it reused, so that there's no inputs 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:54.960 or very little inputs. That's the ideal. The more inputs necessary, 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.080 taking it apart, transporting it somewhere, putting it back together, 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:03.600 refurbishing it, that is the least desirable, even though that's 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.680 still within this scope that we currently have in the 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:08.839 linear model. That that's like the best you can do. 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.920 The you know, like recycling, recycling is the last thing 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:13.559 you want to do. 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.559 Yeah, and hammer's not the worst idea, my friend, because 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.720 I'd say ninety nine percent of the people out there, 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:22.680 if they're hammer handle breaks. Let's say you have a 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:24.600 wooden hammer handle and that breaks, people just throw it 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.720 in the trash and you can fix that. One of 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.360 my favorite things to do is I follow a few 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.080 Instagram accounts where people fix things in front of your 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:38.080 face like that, just simple everyday things. And it's incredibly 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.040 rewarding to see someone take something that would normally be 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:42.440 in the trash and they're like, Oh, you need to 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:44.240 do is get another piece of wood. Get that other 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.440 piece of wood fully out of there, h and shape 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.720 it like the broken piece. And then you've got another hammer. 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:52.880 How do you shape it like the broken piece? What 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:54.200 tool do you need for that? 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.120 Well, I mean, these people do this for a living, 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.440 so they may have a lath or something, but like, 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.160 it doesn't even have to be pretty. I could I 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.400 bet you give me a broken hammer, buddy, with my 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:06.720 limited tools and skills, I could make that hammer new 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:08.320 again if I really wanted to. 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:12.680 Okay, here's a challenge. I challenge all stuff you should 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:15.120 know listeners to mail Chuck your broken hammers and he 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:17.760 will show every single one of them for you for 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.160 free and mail them back out of his own pocket. 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.440 That's right. Send it to a top one hundred podcaster 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:28.640 at one two three Lane, Atlanta, Georgia. Should we take 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:29.960 a break, Yeah, let's. 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:30.320 Take a break. 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:31.400 All right, we'll be right back. 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.040 So okay, so far basically what we've been saying are 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.600 all good ideas. Very few people are like no, I 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:09.880 want to throw my hammer away. I get the deep 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:14.720 satisfaction throwing that broken hammer away. Most people just don't 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.040 want their hammer to break, which again is addressed like 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:21.920 making products planned for permanence, making them just better rather 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:26.320 than cheaper. But all of this stuff like is going 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:32.360 to take a complete shift in how we view economics, 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:36.160 how we view growth, and also how we view consumer 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.080 behavior because we're in a linear model right now, and 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.440 the basis of the linear model is making it as 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:47.000 easy as possible for you to buy and use and 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.960 throw away get rid of whatever product it is you're buying, 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:57.920 whether it's potato chips, a hammer, a cotton for a car, whatever. 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:00.880 You're gonna get me every time. By the way, I 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:05.320 could keep going back to that. Well, yeah, but you know, 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:08.879 there are examples of things and companies that are and 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.359 have been doing this. You know, Dave looked down on 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.680 his kitchen table and saw an aluminum can, was like, hey, 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.440 there's a good example right there. Aluminum is a very 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:22.200 recyclable thing, and thankfully it's it's being recycled and at 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:24.720 pretty good rates. It depends on where you are. If 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:26.560 like you're in Brazil, that's about one hundred percent, if 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:30.080 you're in the USA about sixty five percent. But the 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:34.280 average aluminum can that you're gonna purchase in the United 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:37.240 States is made from about seventy one percent recycled material. 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.560 So we're doing okay there, it's a good example. 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.000 We're doing great. It's a great example. It's the probably 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.800 the top example as far as the United States goes. 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.280 People tend to recycle cans, and they're easy to recycle, 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.800 So we have a process in an infrastructure that makes 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:55.800 the whole thing fairly low hanging fruit. And because aluminum 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:59.400 cans are light enough but also compactable, you can transport 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:01.240 a bunch of them, so it's worth your while to 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:04.719 transport them from a pickup site to like our actual 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:10.240 recycling centers. It's just checking all of the boxes. Even still, 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.439 though you see, with as easy as it is, thirty 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:15.960 five percent of those aluminum cans just get thrown away 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:17.000 in the trash. 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:17.800 Who's doing that? 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.440 A lot of people? I mean, I'll do that. Yeah, 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:23.600 I know, it's it's kind of nuts, but that is 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:28.000 the case. So that right there just kind of goes 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:31.200 to show you like that's where the consumer behavior needs 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.040 to change. Everything else is basically in place for us 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.840 to recycle all of the aluminum cans that we have, 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.159 we're just not doing it. So that's like kind of 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.520 one pillar or an example of one of the pillars 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.360 that has to be adapted to go to a circular 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.160 economy making people more thoughtful. 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:51.280 I guess, good luck, buddy. 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:52.760 I know, I think that's probably more than anything what 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.960 makes this a pipe dream, I should say. The most 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:57.640 cynical side of me says that. 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:00.320 Is, getting everybody on board with a single idea these 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:02.720 days is not possible, basically. 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:06.280 Yeah, because all it takes is one schmo to throw 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:10.359 his can away in the trash and you just lost 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:13.400 you one hundred percent recycling status and then everybody goes, 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.479 what's the point of a circular economy anyway? And goes 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:16.760 back to the linear economy. 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.000 Yeah, but the stat that could throw out then is 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:22.520 one hundred percent except Gary, mm, you. 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:23.919 Know, and it would be a Gary. 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.680 Yeah, I'm sorry Gary's. You know, it's true. 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.320 Yeah, not all Garys are bad, but all bad people 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:30.880 are Gary's. 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:33.480 There's the stuff you should know shirt, not all Gary's. 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:38.159 Just that's it, okay. There are also some examples of 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:41.880 companies that, you know, I'm a big Shark Tank fan 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.159 of that TV show, and it seems like more and 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.240 more companies are coming through there that are that are small, 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:50.560 and obviously they're small because they're on Shark Tank and 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:53.399 looking for initial investments, but they're trying to do the 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.800 right thing here. Getting corporations on board is the big problem. 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:58.680 But I've seen a lot of companies come through Shark 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:02.320 Tank where they're like and the reason I mentioned this 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.960 is because Unilever is one of the examples of a 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.960 corporation that's partnered with the Ella MacArthur Foundation. They're reducing 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:12.359 plastic waste and they sell a ton of stuff. But 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:14.800 like when they're selling detergent and stuff like that, or shampoo, 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.520 now they have programs where you're like, hey, send in 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.760 your empty shampoo bottle and we will fill that thing 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:24.000 up and send it back to you or get it 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.840 and concentrate stuff like that. And there's a lot of 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:30.320 like shark Tank companies that are doing similar things, including 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:32.720 cleaning products, where they're like, hey, there's a better way 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:36.520 to do this, where you're just not even if you're 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:40.040 recycling that plastic, just burning through these things on a 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.440 daily and weekly basis and tossing it in the recycling 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:43.560 or worse trash. 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:47.280 For sure, right, And I think like entrepreneurs creating small 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:52.560 businesses and focusing on like one thing that is sustainable, reusable, whatever, 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.560 that's how larger corporations start doing that stuff because they 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:00.879 buy those smaller corporations for that idea and implement it 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:04.439 company wide hopefully. So that's great that those people are 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:05.000 out there. 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.080 Or they squash it, yeah, or they squash it. Yeah. 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:11.720 Lord, I just wanted to tell everybody we should say hi, Jerry, 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:12.800 Jerry's here everyone. 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:15.440 Oh I was I was wrong. 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:17.840 Yeah, I saw that there are I did not see 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:22.040 a single shampoo refilling station in the US there. I 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:26.840 found them in Indonesia, Mexico, Philippines, and Pakistan so far. 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:29.919 I mean that's that's even better because then you're not, 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:35.240 you know, mailing stuff, you know, because that's another type 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:37.639 of ways. It's like just mailing the empty bottles and 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:38.600 having that mail back. 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:41.320 Yeah, I agree. I mean, if you're going to the 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:45.800 store already and they're like, they're attractive little shampoo refilling centers, 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:47.639 and I guess if you were really hard up, you 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:50.240 could go just put your head under the nozzle and 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.359 do a little little squirt and then run home and 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:54.040 wash your hair. 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:56.080 Yeah. I mean they've been doing that with the big 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:58.440 five gallon jugs of water forever, you know, at most right, 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:01.159 I thought of that too. Yeah, that's a good thing 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:04.480 because those things are are huge, and just swapping those 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:07.600 out and refilling them just it only makes sense. Yep. 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:12.359 There's also there's a Dutch company called Niaga, which is 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:17.040 again backwards. You'd never know that unless someone told you, 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:19.960 or you happen to be wearing a Niaga T shirt 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:21.080 in front of a mirror. 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:24.800 Yeah, it is the word again. I think just the 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:26.160 way you said that might be confusing. 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:29.240 Okay, I got you. Yeah, I'm sure it was confusing. 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:32.640 Can't you just hear like a time podcast monitor going 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:35.800 and like checking some box that keeps us off the list? 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:38.600 Yeah, like one on one. 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:43.920 So if we're lucky. So this company, they're Dutch, they 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:48.840 targeted carpets and mattresses and those are two of the 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:52.320 worst offenders as far as at least as far as 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:55.320 textiles go, but maybe as far as all products go. Yeah, 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:59.320 because they're big, they're essentially impossible to recycle. They're very, 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:02.439 very hard to recycle, and people throw a lot of 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:06.160 them away. I think twenty million mattresses are thrown away 0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:10.960 in the United States alone, thirty million in Europe. And 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:16.720 we tossed about two billion pounds yeah, of carpet away 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:20.440 every year in the United States into landfills. Only five 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:23.800 percent of carpet gets recycled. I couldn't even tell you 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:27.000 where you would recycle carpet. 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:31.679 I don't know. Is there a place called recarpet Maybe 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:34.040 that's what it should be called, right. 0:23:34.040 --> 0:23:38.840 Or carpets again, right, or all of that backward. Yeah. 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:41.000 I mean the other reason those two they're targeting those 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:45.520 two a is because the people of the Netherlands are great. 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:47.840 And hey, if you live in the Netherlands and you 0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:50.960 would go see a live podcast of us there in Amsterdam, 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:53.840 let us know. Sure, let's go ahead and just say 0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:56.040 that we're putting out feelers for Europe, so we'd love 0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:57.800 to hear from people about where we might could get 0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:01.120 an audience. Sure, is that okay to say that? 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:04.200 Yeah, we should probably tell everybody it won't be for 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:05.440 two years. 0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:08.400 Yeah, we're targeting twenty seven, but we're going to get 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:11.679 back on the road next year, coming for you Canada 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:12.360 in a big way. 0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:15.440 Yeah, for sure, So you better close the borders. 0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:17.919 That's a little Well, they might hope it will be 0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:18.760 welcome to get a pass. 0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:20.400 I hope it's up in the air. 0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:25.239 But long way of saying, the reason that they are 0:24:25.280 --> 0:24:30.159 targeting those specifically is not just the lifespan, but they 0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:32.960 actually have a name. They're called Medium Life Bulky Products. 0:24:32.960 --> 0:24:35.320 They you know, this stuff lasts about ten years, and 0:24:35.359 --> 0:24:38.960 they're just full of nasty chemicals, and so all of 0:24:39.000 --> 0:24:42.200 that leads to them being the two of the worst defenders. 0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:46.120 Mattresses and carpet full of chemicals don't last long, and 0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:47.359 they're fairly large. 0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:50.000 Yeah, especially if they're stained mattresses. 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:52.679 Yeah, yeah, good luck recycling that. 0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:55.800 I saw eighty two and twenty years for a mattress 0:24:55.800 --> 0:24:59.080 to degrade in a landfill, which actually seemed a little 0:24:59.119 --> 0:25:02.399 fast for me. You know, it's still not fast enough. 0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:05.280 So this company is like, Okay, we're actually going to 0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:08.880 make this stuff out of recyclable materials. But even better 0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:12.520 than that, we're going to make it so that every 0:25:12.640 --> 0:25:15.480 part of the mattress is replaceable. 0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:17.280 Imagine that or repaarable. 0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:22.119 Yes, so you're like, I got just a gallons of 0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:25.280 urine staining the cover of my mattress. I need a 0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:27.960 new mattress cover. Rather than throwing out the whole mattress 0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:30.480 and waiting one hundred and twenty years for it to degrade, 0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:33.920 you just call up Niaga and you say, hey, send 0:25:33.920 --> 0:25:36.879 me another mattress cover, and they say, hey, we didn't 0:25:36.960 --> 0:25:39.680 know that you could call direct from the United states 0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:42.360 to the Netherlands. But that's new for us. We'll send 0:25:42.400 --> 0:25:45.040 it to you straight away and they send it to you. 0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:47.800 You put it back on and there's no yearine whatsoever 0:25:47.920 --> 0:25:49.400 until the next time it happens. 0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:53.560 That's right. But they say what's the magic word and 0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:58.119 you have to go bug in like it's like a 0:25:58.160 --> 0:25:58.720 two year old. 0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:02.399 Again, that's the actually do that. 0:26:03.400 --> 0:26:05.840 It's great, And we'll look at other Dutch companies because 0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:07.600 they they're they're doing the right thing. It seems like 0:26:07.600 --> 0:26:10.439 in a lot of ways. One key to all of 0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:17.160 this is, uh design. If you have a linear economy, 0:26:17.160 --> 0:26:20.840 which we do. Like we said, it's it's purpose it's purposeful. 0:26:20.880 --> 0:26:24.800 It's designed in such a way to make it, you know, 0:26:25.000 --> 0:26:28.760 either obsolete or just you know, a mattress that can't 0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:31.879 be recovered or whatever. So you have to start with design. 0:26:31.920 --> 0:26:35.119 It has to start on the very conceptual phase of like, 0:26:35.240 --> 0:26:38.639 how could we make a mattress that could last you forever? 0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:41.600 And then you design it that way because it's possible. 0:26:42.000 --> 0:26:45.359 Yeah, and design doesn't just apply to products, although that's 0:26:45.400 --> 0:26:47.640 the easiest thing to do, is to say, Okay, how 0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:50.080 can I design this product to fit into the existing 0:26:50.560 --> 0:26:54.840 recycling infrastructure, or design it to be reusable or repairrable. 0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:58.760 That's the easiest one. We also, though, need to design 0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:03.520 our recycling infrastructure to make it easier to recycle products 0:27:03.520 --> 0:27:07.160 that aren't designed to be recycled. So there's a lot 0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:08.720 of design that has to go. But you're right, like, 0:27:08.720 --> 0:27:12.440 it has to be a conscious choice, and Dave points 0:27:12.440 --> 0:27:15.560 out something I think is important too, Waste is a 0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:21.000 conscious choice too, Like when your little like mini bag 0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:25.320 of lazed potato chips, when you're done with it, you 0:27:25.359 --> 0:27:28.080 throw it away. It was designed to be thrown away, 0:27:28.160 --> 0:27:30.199 like that was a decision that was made by the 0:27:30.240 --> 0:27:33.600 package designers. They didn't do anything to try to make 0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:37.119 it recyclable. They decided that the best thing for you 0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:39.480 to do with that package is to throw it away. 0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:43.159 And as much as you hate it, you have no choice. 0:27:43.240 --> 0:27:46.560 Your choice is to buy those those lazed potato chips 0:27:46.640 --> 0:27:49.080 or not buy them. And some people are starting to 0:27:49.200 --> 0:27:51.800 based on the packaging. So people so some companies are 0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:53.600 starting to wake up. But for the most part, people 0:27:53.640 --> 0:27:56.199 are like, I don't want to think about but the 0:27:56.240 --> 0:28:00.040 packaging that my potato chips come in. I have so 0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:04.239 many more bigger pressing issues right now that if you 0:28:04.280 --> 0:28:06.159 can just make it so that the people don't have 0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:09.159 to think about recycling it, then you're onto something. 0:28:09.760 --> 0:28:10.800 Yeah, one hundred percent. 0:28:11.000 --> 0:28:12.960 And I was talking about myself. I don't want to 0:28:13.000 --> 0:28:15.200 think about what I'm supposed to know on a potato 0:28:15.280 --> 0:28:18.200 chip package. And I'm not being judgy, like I'm including 0:28:18.200 --> 0:28:21.439 myself in this like I I mean, I would like 0:28:21.480 --> 0:28:24.399 to think I'm more conscientious than say the average person, 0:28:24.480 --> 0:28:26.960 but I'm certainly I'm not at like Chuck level. 0:28:28.160 --> 0:28:30.200 I'm not like the Emily level. You know me, I'm 0:28:30.240 --> 0:28:32.639 on her coattails right well. I mean when I was 0:28:32.680 --> 0:28:35.720 a kid, we had the Charles Chips driver come around. Yeah, 0:28:35.760 --> 0:28:38.120 I remember that, and we would give them our I mean, 0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:40.440 if you're of a certain age, you might remember this. 0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:44.560 There was a literal potato chip delivery company. They were 0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:46.520 called Charles Chips, and they came in a big metal 0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:50.560 ten and you would finish with that ten, and your 0:28:50.640 --> 0:28:52.760 chip person would come by and you would give them 0:28:52.760 --> 0:28:54.480 the ten of empty chips and they would give you 0:28:54.520 --> 0:28:55.480 a full ten of chips. 0:28:55.640 --> 0:28:58.120 Yeah. They'd reach in with the cuff of their shirt, 0:28:58.520 --> 0:29:01.480 wipe the tin out, put the chips in the tin 0:29:01.640 --> 0:29:02.560 sometimes I saw. 0:29:03.520 --> 0:29:06.520 Yeah, And obviously again there's still waste with the delivery 0:29:06.520 --> 0:29:10.320 truck and stuff, so save the emails. But we're talking 0:29:10.320 --> 0:29:15.160 about you know, we're not idealizing it as perfect. We're 0:29:15.200 --> 0:29:17.400 just saying like it's a better thing than what we're 0:29:17.400 --> 0:29:19.640 doing now, which is those little foil bags sitting in 0:29:19.720 --> 0:29:20.800 landfills for sure. 0:29:21.040 --> 0:29:23.800 And yeah, that's another thing too, is because this is 0:29:23.880 --> 0:29:27.240 kind of conceptual and not every issue is being tackled 0:29:27.320 --> 0:29:30.640 right out of the gate with it. Like energy uses 0:29:30.680 --> 0:29:33.120 a big part of it. So they obviously are like, well, 0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:35.760 we need more renewables. That's kind of a no brainer. 0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:39.320 But it's important because not everything can be done with 0:29:39.840 --> 0:29:44.320 renew with renewable resources. Some stuff just requires fossil fuels. 0:29:44.360 --> 0:29:47.040 Some stuff, say, requires nuclear, So you have to be 0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:52.120 able to design those power plants or those industrial smoke 0:29:52.120 --> 0:29:55.080 stacks so that that stuff's being captured and reused as 0:29:55.080 --> 0:29:56.560 an input somehow. 0:29:56.800 --> 0:30:00.440 Right exactly. And you know you talked about educating the consumer, 0:30:00.600 --> 0:30:06.680 but and it's not educating the corporation because they know 0:30:06.760 --> 0:30:08.880 this stuff. They do it on purpose for a reason, 0:30:08.960 --> 0:30:14.520 like you said, But it's more about like companies coming 0:30:14.600 --> 0:30:18.280 along where the end user isn't the single focus. They 0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:21.280 take a more macro view and say, well, there's something 0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:25.000 bigger at work with these products we sell, and that's 0:30:25.120 --> 0:30:29.560 Planet Earth and Mother Nature. And while the consumer is 0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:31.520 important and we want to give them a good product, 0:30:31.840 --> 0:30:34.680 we can start from the beginning and design something that 0:30:34.720 --> 0:30:39.080 has less of an environmental impact, designed to fit within 0:30:39.160 --> 0:30:41.920 these recycling networks, like you know, aluminum, like you were 0:30:41.920 --> 0:30:44.840 talking about, like once those are up and running, and 0:30:45.440 --> 0:30:46.760 a big one that I didn't even think of that 0:30:46.840 --> 0:30:50.480 day pointed out was like do you need this new product? 0:30:51.200 --> 0:30:55.280 Does the consumer need it or is it just like, hey, 0:30:55.280 --> 0:30:57.320 I think we could boost sales in Q three if 0:30:57.640 --> 0:31:00.720 we released a slightly different version of this dumb same thing. 0:31:01.120 --> 0:31:07.320 Right, So you kind of mentioned something where like using 0:31:07.360 --> 0:31:11.360 something like leasing or renting something can also be applied 0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:14.280 to things we don't normally think of is what we 0:31:14.440 --> 0:31:18.800 lease or rent. Right. One of the again a Dutch 0:31:18.840 --> 0:31:24.120 company called Bundles is basically they come to your house. 0:31:24.160 --> 0:31:28.040 They'll bring you your dishwasher or your washing machine, or 0:31:28.080 --> 0:31:30.360 your dryer, or your coffee maker, or you can bundle 0:31:30.400 --> 0:31:33.800 it all together. It's the name, and they're going to 0:31:33.840 --> 0:31:39.080 bring you a really high end Mela sustainably manufactured appliance, 0:31:39.880 --> 0:31:41.640 and you're going to have this thing in your house 0:31:42.160 --> 0:31:44.280 and you don't have to lift a finger other than 0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:47.360 to use it. This company brings it, they install it, 0:31:47.640 --> 0:31:50.880 they come by and maintain it when it's done. When 0:31:50.920 --> 0:31:53.320 you're done with it, say you're moving and you can't 0:31:53.400 --> 0:31:55.000 use it anymore, they're going to come pick it up. 0:31:55.000 --> 0:31:56.440 They're going to refurbish it. They're going to bring it 0:31:56.480 --> 0:32:00.640 to somebody else. It's like really circular. And the way 0:32:00.680 --> 0:32:03.360 that you are charged for it is by the number 0:32:03.360 --> 0:32:08.239 of washes you I guess carry out. I guess that's 0:32:08.280 --> 0:32:10.680 how you talk about launder you carry out a wash. 0:32:11.200 --> 0:32:13.840 It is called a paper wash model, and the whole 0:32:13.920 --> 0:32:17.880 basis of it is Wi Fi, like your washing machine 0:32:17.920 --> 0:32:20.800 is connected to their servers, so they're tracking how many 0:32:20.800 --> 0:32:23.160 times you're washing. And then from what I can tell, 0:32:23.200 --> 0:32:25.800 you get a monthly bill based on the amount of 0:32:25.960 --> 0:32:28.720 washes you did, the amount of use you did for that, 0:32:28.880 --> 0:32:31.120 or you use for the washer or the dryer or whatever. 0:32:32.000 --> 0:32:32.200 You know. 0:32:32.200 --> 0:32:35.440 It might take away here is what You've never washed 0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:36.320 your own clothes? Have you? 0:32:36.560 --> 0:32:38.520 That is not true. I'm actually kind of good at 0:32:38.520 --> 0:32:41.760 my own clothes. I had to get good because I 0:32:41.800 --> 0:32:43.400 don't know how I do it. But there's not a 0:32:43.480 --> 0:32:45.280 day that goes by that I don't get a spot 0:32:45.400 --> 0:32:48.000 on one of my T shirts. So I've gotten good 0:32:48.040 --> 0:32:49.400 at salvaging T shirts. 0:32:49.800 --> 0:32:53.840 Same, same. It's incredible how stained my T shirt gets 0:32:53.960 --> 0:32:57.120 on a regular basis. And I do believe you can 0:32:57.160 --> 0:32:59.080 carry out a wash like nobody's business. 0:33:00.120 --> 0:33:02.400 Shout. That's what I use. I shout it out. It 0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:03.960 works really well. 0:33:04.440 --> 0:33:07.160 I use and I hate having to use it. But 0:33:07.520 --> 0:33:10.440 my friend from that has been working in wardrobe departments 0:33:10.440 --> 0:33:14.040 in Hollywood for thirty years said, zout is the one 0:33:14.280 --> 0:33:14.880 I've not heard of. 0:33:14.960 --> 0:33:16.560 Zout? Why do you hate to use it? Is it 0:33:16.560 --> 0:33:17.240 made from coal? 0:33:18.240 --> 0:33:21.920 It's just one of those disgustingly smelly products. 0:33:22.000 --> 0:33:22.720 Is it naptha? 0:33:23.960 --> 0:33:25.920 I don't know, but no, I mean they mask it. 0:33:25.920 --> 0:33:29.120 It smells like, you know, just really really really really 0:33:29.160 --> 0:33:33.680 heavily fragranced. Yeah, and you know we're not down with that. 0:33:33.840 --> 0:33:36.720 So it gets out of spot. But it'll it'll taint 0:33:37.280 --> 0:33:39.200 you gotta wash it by itself. It'll it'll taint your 0:33:39.200 --> 0:33:44.400 whole load. Should we take a break, Yeah, all right, 0:33:44.440 --> 0:34:19.480 We'll take a break and be right back. All right, 0:34:19.520 --> 0:34:22.080 we're back. I did want to mention one thing. We 0:34:22.120 --> 0:34:25.480 had to take a quicker break. We were laughing too hard. 0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:30.480 But on bundles and that renting appliances, you have to 0:34:30.480 --> 0:34:32.600 do a lot of education in the United States to 0:34:32.680 --> 0:34:38.760 overcome the perception of what the rented appliances means. Yeah, 0:34:38.880 --> 0:34:43.080 because we grew up in and you know, it's it's 0:34:43.080 --> 0:34:45.080 probably still the same way as gen xer is, where 0:34:45.480 --> 0:34:49.000 you know, appliance rental was something like you did if 0:34:49.040 --> 0:34:52.000 you couldn't afford to buy stuff, like you rented your 0:34:52.040 --> 0:34:54.560 TV or whatever. You're like, oh, man, that means you 0:34:54.560 --> 0:34:57.000 don't have much money to buy a TV. But there 0:34:57.080 --> 0:34:59.960 is a better way. And I wish they had the 0:35:00.160 --> 0:35:03.000 here man, because we've had some really bad appliance luck 0:35:03.600 --> 0:35:05.640 and it makes me so mad because this stuff's expensive. 0:35:05.680 --> 0:35:08.520 I would love to rent washer and dryer. 0:35:08.800 --> 0:35:12.120 Well, I'll rent you mine a bird. 0:35:12.120 --> 0:35:13.480 They can carry out a heck of a watch. 0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:17.080 Yeah, it's part of the American dream to own your 0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:18.200 own washer and dryer. 0:35:18.680 --> 0:35:20.319 And I mean, man, no, I hate those things. 0:35:20.360 --> 0:35:22.520 The government can take it from your cold dead hand 0:35:22.640 --> 0:35:26.719 if they try, Uh, Yeah, that's definitely. It's definitely part 0:35:26.760 --> 0:35:31.359 of American cultures. You own your stuff. Yes, you will 0:35:31.400 --> 0:35:35.200 talk about food though, Okay, you own that too. If 0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:38.280 you buy that, you own it here in the United States. 0:35:38.400 --> 0:35:41.360 Not sure what it's like in other countries. But food 0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:44.000 is a huge problem. We've done an entire episode I 0:35:44.000 --> 0:35:46.279 think on food waste before. I know, we've talked about 0:35:46.280 --> 0:35:49.520 it extensively because I remember, and what's sad is we've 0:35:49.560 --> 0:35:53.320 been talking about this for decades now and the stat 0:35:53.400 --> 0:35:56.240 remains the same. A third of all of the food 0:35:56.480 --> 0:35:59.600 grown in the world gets thrown away every year, about 0:35:59.600 --> 0:36:05.520 a trillion dollars worth, and mindless amounts of water and 0:36:05.600 --> 0:36:12.360 fertilizer and labor inputs just wasted. Not just in the 0:36:12.400 --> 0:36:16.239 face of all that loss of like money or resources, 0:36:16.560 --> 0:36:19.560 but it doesn't even get diverted to the poorest people 0:36:19.560 --> 0:36:20.960 in the world who are starving. 0:36:22.120 --> 0:36:25.520 Yeah, for sure. And that's a great episode, So I 0:36:25.600 --> 0:36:27.239 encourage you to go listen to those. But one thing 0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:30.440 I don't know that we've covered on any of these shows. 0:36:30.440 --> 0:36:32.840 While we were you know, beating those horses. 0:36:33.080 --> 0:36:38.279 What dead horses, skinning those cats, is. 0:36:38.239 --> 0:36:42.640 The nutrient cycle. And you know obviously, you know, wasting 0:36:42.680 --> 0:36:45.280 food is a is a moral problem, an ethical problem. 0:36:45.719 --> 0:36:47.920 But one thing we haven't talked much about is that 0:36:47.960 --> 0:36:51.040 it disrupts that nutrient cycle. If you look at nature, 0:36:51.120 --> 0:36:53.799 the system they have is is a closed loop system there. 0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:57.399 You know, things grow naturally out in the woods and 0:36:57.760 --> 0:37:00.279 it is from soil that is being you know, if 0:37:00.320 --> 0:37:03.640 it's just literally out in the forest, just being treated 0:37:03.719 --> 0:37:07.839 naturally by the natural processes of Mother Earth, and then 0:37:08.040 --> 0:37:11.160 an animal eats that thing and then poops it out, 0:37:11.200 --> 0:37:13.240 and that poop goes back into the soil and feeds 0:37:13.239 --> 0:37:15.880 the soil. That animal falls over dead one day, hopefully 0:37:15.880 --> 0:37:19.240 a very old age, then their bodies decompose and release 0:37:19.320 --> 0:37:22.279 those nutrients back into the earth. And it is a 0:37:22.880 --> 0:37:26.040 dare i say, elegant system that humans have come along 0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:27.480 and completely disrupted. 0:37:28.120 --> 0:37:31.040 Yeah, we make food part of our linear economy where 0:37:32.440 --> 0:37:36.040 the food waste doesn't just get tossed on the ground 0:37:36.080 --> 0:37:39.440 and biodegrade into it. You don't want to do that anyway, 0:37:39.719 --> 0:37:42.760 just the annual PSA. Don't throw apple cores and banana 0:37:42.800 --> 0:37:45.000 peels on the ground because that's not a good thing 0:37:45.040 --> 0:37:46.799 to do. What's the best thing to do is to 0:37:46.800 --> 0:37:50.120 compost them and to some degree or some way. The 0:37:50.160 --> 0:37:52.080 worst thing you can do, though, is to throw them 0:37:52.080 --> 0:37:55.000 in a trash can and have them taken to the landfill, 0:37:55.080 --> 0:37:58.360 because then those nutrients that were put into that food 0:37:58.719 --> 0:38:01.239 have been taken out of the nutrient cycle for Earth, 0:38:01.280 --> 0:38:03.759 at least for however long it's gonna take for that 0:38:03.920 --> 0:38:07.960 entire landfill to degrade, which I can't even imagine how 0:38:07.960 --> 0:38:10.439 long it takes an entire landfill that just turned back 0:38:10.440 --> 0:38:14.799 into nutrients and stuff. So it's disrupted in that way. 0:38:15.080 --> 0:38:18.319 Then we also disrupt it because we don't tend to 0:38:18.440 --> 0:38:23.640 collect our waste for reuse. It's an output, pure and simple, 0:38:24.640 --> 0:38:27.000 we don't we don't put it back into the system. 0:38:27.040 --> 0:38:29.520 So there's two ways that we disrupt the nutrient cycle 0:38:29.800 --> 0:38:32.120 with our with the way that we treat our food. 0:38:32.960 --> 0:38:35.759 Yeah, totally. This may be part of a suite, like 0:38:35.800 --> 0:38:38.000 a playlist one day, because I just realized, we've done 0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:41.759 things on sewage recycling or sewage treatment plants, we've done 0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:44.680 them on landfills, So maybe we should do like a 0:38:44.680 --> 0:38:46.560 little green playlist one day. 0:38:46.640 --> 0:38:48.919 Yeah. We got one on permaculture that was pretty great. 0:38:49.080 --> 0:38:49.840 Yeah, totally. 0:38:50.800 --> 0:38:52.840 Before we move on though, I should say some of 0:38:52.880 --> 0:38:57.719 that those what are called biosolids treated sewage. They it 0:38:57.760 --> 0:39:02.600 does get reused in some cases. Have you used malorganite? Uh? 0:39:03.840 --> 0:39:05.359 Why do I know that word. I think we've talked 0:39:05.360 --> 0:39:05.719 about that. 0:39:05.800 --> 0:39:09.280 It's a miracle fertilizer. It does wonders for your grass, 0:39:09.360 --> 0:39:11.480 especially if you pair it with an inch of water 0:39:11.600 --> 0:39:15.800 flooding your grass. But it's these little particles and they smell, 0:39:15.880 --> 0:39:18.239 but not smell the way you would think because they 0:39:18.239 --> 0:39:24.440 actually are treated sewage from Milwaukee's municipal sewerage system. Huh, 0:39:25.640 --> 0:39:29.200 but they it's like a nitrogen boost for its fertilizer 0:39:29.280 --> 0:39:34.320 for your lawn. It's insane how well it works. It's cheap, 0:39:34.440 --> 0:39:38.720 and you're reusing waste from the good people of Milwaukee. 0:39:38.960 --> 0:39:40.799 Well that's great, and you can get. 0:39:40.719 --> 0:39:44.120 It almost anywhere. It's very it's very abundant and easy 0:39:44.160 --> 0:39:46.000 to get and I highly recommend it. 0:39:46.440 --> 0:39:47.759 I'm down to zero grass now. 0:39:48.760 --> 0:39:52.040 Oh, you could use it on basically any plants. So 0:39:52.280 --> 0:39:55.279 if you have plants that like nitrogen, you can toss 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:56.640 a little milorganite on there. 0:39:57.120 --> 0:39:58.759 I'll pass out along to Emily Sheep. I'm sure she 0:39:58.760 --> 0:39:59.239 knows about it. 0:39:59.320 --> 0:40:02.799 Zero grass is your entire lawn just or your entire 0:40:02.920 --> 0:40:07.719 yard just covered with high end antique screen doors. That's right, 0:40:09.040 --> 0:40:11.439 it's a good look, I'll vet it is. I'll bet 0:40:11.440 --> 0:40:13.879 they it's a little wobbly though, right walking around? 0:40:14.120 --> 0:40:14.319 Yeah? 0:40:14.480 --> 0:40:15.480 Or are they just for looking? 0:40:16.800 --> 0:40:21.000 No? No, no, you walk on it, okay. So Ellen 0:40:21.040 --> 0:40:26.400 MacArthur's foundation is looking to correct this and making like 0:40:26.880 --> 0:40:31.000 basically investing in the biological cycle of the circular economy, 0:40:31.040 --> 0:40:33.040 like making this a part of it too. And composting 0:40:33.120 --> 0:40:36.120 is an obvious win. But one of the things that 0:40:36.239 --> 0:40:40.520 is pretty amazing is called cascading, that is reusing food 0:40:40.560 --> 0:40:43.840 waste to make other things. And there's a what a 0:40:43.920 --> 0:40:48.799 Dutch company called Peel Pioneers because you know in those 0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:52.440 in fruit peels like orange and lemon and stuff like that, 0:40:52.200 --> 0:40:55.080 that's the best stuff is in that peel, the zest 0:40:55.120 --> 0:40:57.719 of those things and the essential oils that you get 0:40:57.719 --> 0:41:00.959 from those peels, like that's the goal man. And people 0:41:01.000 --> 0:41:04.440 are throwing that away or composting it, which is okay. 0:41:04.520 --> 0:41:08.120 But how about taking this essential oils and actually making 0:41:08.160 --> 0:41:10.280 other products out of them? And that is what Peel 0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:12.520 Pioneers out of the Netherlands is doing. 0:41:12.880 --> 0:41:15.520 Yeah, and that's I mean, you can find cascading in 0:41:15.600 --> 0:41:18.879 a lot of different food companies, but that's a great 0:41:18.880 --> 0:41:22.000 example because those that orange essential oil is in particular, 0:41:22.040 --> 0:41:24.480 are used in a lot of different other products. So 0:41:25.000 --> 0:41:27.520 you can have a pretty successful business just harvesting the 0:41:28.160 --> 0:41:30.840 scraps off the floor of an orange juice processor, you know. 0:41:31.560 --> 0:41:34.680 Yeah, converting stuff to biofuel is another pretty obvious one. 0:41:34.760 --> 0:41:38.680 Yeah, and then anaerobic digesters I have. I'm putting a 0:41:38.680 --> 0:41:43.400 lot of like hope on anaerobic digesters in the future 0:41:43.440 --> 0:41:46.840 where we just figure out the microbes that eat this stuff, 0:41:47.160 --> 0:41:50.200 or these microbes eat this kind of plastic, these microbes 0:41:50.239 --> 0:41:53.359 eat this kind of oil, and like just unleash them 0:41:53.440 --> 0:41:56.920 on all sorts of stuff and then reuse their byproducts 0:41:57.280 --> 0:42:00.480 as inputs. I really hope we reach that future. That 0:42:00.560 --> 0:42:02.280 to me is like the greenest of green. 0:42:03.200 --> 0:42:06.360 Yeah, we've talked about that too. I can't remember what episode. 0:42:05.920 --> 0:42:08.680 I can either. We'll we'll have to use that stuff 0:42:08.680 --> 0:42:12.239 you should know transcript search tool to find. 0:42:12.360 --> 0:42:15.399 Yeah. I feel like it was like someone was using 0:42:15.400 --> 0:42:17.680 worms to do something than that ring a bell. 0:42:18.920 --> 0:42:20.920 It might have been a biofuel app. 0:42:21.280 --> 0:42:23.799 Yeah, maybe, So we'll look at up. Can we talk 0:42:23.840 --> 0:42:24.440 about fashion? 0:42:24.840 --> 0:42:27.320 Yeah, this is just crazy to me. I think we 0:42:27.320 --> 0:42:30.440 should do an entire episode on fast fashion, but we 0:42:30.520 --> 0:42:31.959 can hit some high points. I think. 0:42:32.560 --> 0:42:36.160 Yeah, fast fashion is sort of an environmental nightmare and 0:42:36.640 --> 0:42:41.600 a humanitarian nightmare because they're made in sweatshops for very 0:42:41.640 --> 0:42:44.000 little pay by people you know, making very little pay. 0:42:44.480 --> 0:42:48.879 They are sold very cheaply. Cheap synthetic materials are used, 0:42:48.960 --> 0:42:52.439 so all the inputs are bad, they don't last long, 0:42:53.320 --> 0:42:57.400 and it's an environmental nightmare. Basically, I think the fashion 0:42:57.440 --> 0:43:01.239 industry is the second largest consumer of water. That has 0:43:01.280 --> 0:43:05.040 to be behind the factory farming, right, Yeah, and it 0:43:05.120 --> 0:43:09.319 produces ten percent. The fashion industry produces ten percent of 0:43:09.360 --> 0:43:10.919 the global CO two emissions total. 0:43:11.120 --> 0:43:14.600 Yeah, and eighty five percent of all the stuff that 0:43:14.640 --> 0:43:19.200 the fashion industry makes ends up in landfills, not recycled landfills. 0:43:19.239 --> 0:43:21.200 Eighty five percent of all the clothes made in the 0:43:21.320 --> 0:43:25.960 entire world. There's another issue with it too. When you 0:43:26.200 --> 0:43:29.040 wash just washing, just using these things, washing them in 0:43:29.080 --> 0:43:36.280 your bundles least washing machine, you're releasing microplastics into the ocean. 0:43:36.400 --> 0:43:40.920 Because a lot of clothes, even recycled clothes, are made 0:43:40.920 --> 0:43:44.920 from plastics or contained plastics and those things get flushed 0:43:44.920 --> 0:43:49.000 out and it's a huge plastic pollution problem too, which 0:43:49.080 --> 0:43:52.560 is I mean, it's ironic. Like Patagonia is always hull 0:43:52.719 --> 0:43:55.520 up as a great example of a company that tries 0:43:55.560 --> 0:43:59.560 to make sustainable circular clothing, and one of the things 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:02.480 that they you is there. I think their line of 0:44:03.520 --> 0:44:09.480 responsibility t shirts super cute. They're made from fabric scraps. Cool, 0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:12.759 but also plastic bottles also cool because we want to 0:44:12.760 --> 0:44:15.520 recycle plastic bottles. But the problem is is that plastic 0:44:15.520 --> 0:44:18.680 gets transferred to the ocean. So it's one of those 0:44:18.680 --> 0:44:20.799 things where it's like we're so far from figuring the 0:44:20.800 --> 0:44:22.920 stuff out that even the people who are trying to 0:44:22.920 --> 0:44:26.560 do something are still having inverting effects that you know, 0:44:26.640 --> 0:44:28.320 I'm sure keeps them up at night. 0:44:28.960 --> 0:44:32.440 Yeah, for sure. And you can also, man, you can 0:44:32.480 --> 0:44:36.839 send a ten year old pullover to Patagonia that had 0:44:36.840 --> 0:44:39.120 a collar that ripped or something and they'll fix that 0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:42.080 thing for you, probably for nothing. Yeah, And you can 0:44:42.120 --> 0:44:44.359 buy you can send stuff back to them that they 0:44:44.400 --> 0:44:47.040 will resell, and you can buy like, you know, gently 0:44:47.160 --> 0:44:52.040 used things from Patagonia online. They are also working with 0:44:52.160 --> 0:44:58.160 a startup called Infinitive Fiber, And what they're doing is 0:44:58.160 --> 0:45:00.520 they're they're working on the on the waste on the 0:45:00.520 --> 0:45:04.400 front end. It's a process to recycle that textile waste, 0:45:04.440 --> 0:45:07.279 because you know, it's not like, all right, we've got 0:45:07.280 --> 0:45:10.319 this much cotton and every single fiber goes into making 0:45:10.320 --> 0:45:13.560 that T shirt and there's zero waste or that car. Yeah, 0:45:13.760 --> 0:45:16.160 I'm sorry about that that car. There's you know, there's 0:45:16.200 --> 0:45:18.759 gonna be some textile waste on the front end. And 0:45:18.840 --> 0:45:21.840 so what they're doing is they're they're taking that stuff 0:45:21.880 --> 0:45:25.560 and they're recycling that textile waste into a new fiber 0:45:25.640 --> 0:45:27.120 called Infina. 0:45:27.239 --> 0:45:31.960 Yeah, and that stuff is one hundred percent recyclable. So eventually, 0:45:32.239 --> 0:45:35.239 over time, if this loop were allowed to really kind 0:45:35.280 --> 0:45:39.160 of take hold, eventually all the cotton would be put 0:45:39.160 --> 0:45:42.920 into or transferred into the Infina circle. And since it's 0:45:42.920 --> 0:45:47.160 one hundred percent recyclable, you could conceivably never have to 0:45:47.200 --> 0:45:52.160 put new cotton in again. Yeah, for sure, I don't 0:45:52.200 --> 0:45:54.960 think it's gonna happen anytime soon. I'm just saying conceptually, 0:45:55.040 --> 0:45:56.560 that's kind of how this stuff works. 0:45:57.000 --> 0:45:59.000 Yeah, it's even compostable. 0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:00.680 It is, so you would have to put some new 0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:03.000 cotton in once in a while, because Gary would go 0:46:03.080 --> 0:46:06.400 compost it just to be a jerk, right, But yeah, 0:46:06.440 --> 0:46:08.640 for the most part, you could. Once it really kind 0:46:08.640 --> 0:46:10.440 of took hold and got going, it could can it 0:46:10.480 --> 0:46:15.040 could overtake the existing cotton stocks and make them one 0:46:15.080 --> 0:46:18.600 hundred percent recyclable, and then you wouldn't need more cotton stocks, 0:46:18.760 --> 0:46:20.880 which is again an issue we'd have to deal with 0:46:20.920 --> 0:46:22.640 because then all the cotton farmers are out of. 0:46:22.560 --> 0:46:25.560 Work, that's right, and we have no more new cotton 0:46:25.600 --> 0:46:26.319 cars on the road. 0:46:26.800 --> 0:46:29.399 But one other thing that I found that really got 0:46:29.440 --> 0:46:33.120 to meet Chuck. I found a stat that said that 0:46:34.080 --> 0:46:37.399 most of the returns, like if you try something on, 0:46:37.760 --> 0:46:40.560 like a clothing, especially if it's mail to you and 0:46:40.600 --> 0:46:44.319 you try it on and send it back, right, Yeah, 0:46:44.560 --> 0:46:48.600 most of those things are thrown away into land. Yes, 0:46:49.120 --> 0:46:54.160 what nine point five billion pounds of just clothing returns 0:46:54.360 --> 0:46:58.359 alone were put into landfills in twenty twenty two. 0:46:59.040 --> 0:46:59.719 Unconsionable. 0:46:59.800 --> 0:47:02.160 Yeah, yeah, and the reason why is because companies are like, 0:47:02.320 --> 0:47:04.480 I'm not going to pay somebody to fold this thing 0:47:04.520 --> 0:47:06.160 back up, put the pins back in it, put it 0:47:06.200 --> 0:47:08.200 in the plastic, and make it new again. So that 0:47:08.239 --> 0:47:10.719 I can sell it. It's cheaper for me to just 0:47:10.880 --> 0:47:15.560 throw it away. And there are programs that divert that 0:47:15.680 --> 0:47:20.880 stuff to like developing countries so that those clothes are donated. 0:47:21.400 --> 0:47:25.200 But I guarantee that's not as cheap for the company 0:47:25.200 --> 0:47:27.400 as it is to just throw it away. That's a 0:47:27.640 --> 0:47:31.600 huge impact that the fast fashion industry has on the planet. 0:47:32.040 --> 0:47:33.120 That's crazy to me. 0:47:33.920 --> 0:47:37.319 Yeah, I haven't been this upset about something I've heard 0:47:37.320 --> 0:47:38.479 from you in a long time. 0:47:39.080 --> 0:47:41.799 And I say some upsetting stuff. I know you usually 0:47:41.840 --> 0:47:45.200 text them to me, but those are upsetting pictures, all right. 0:47:45.239 --> 0:47:46.799 One last thing we can talk about is the right 0:47:46.840 --> 0:47:49.600 to repair movement, which we talked about in the Planned 0:47:49.600 --> 0:47:55.879 Obsolescence episode. But you know, it's exactly what you think it's. It's, hey, 0:47:56.080 --> 0:47:58.680 we need to be able to repair our whatever's our 0:47:58.719 --> 0:48:03.040 small appliances. That's a big offender. A lot of companies 0:48:03.040 --> 0:48:05.120 are saying because you know, I don't know if we 0:48:05.200 --> 0:48:07.960 covered this part, but because I don't remember why companies 0:48:08.000 --> 0:48:09.759 didn't do it, or at least why they say they 0:48:09.800 --> 0:48:13.719 don't do it. One thing they'll say is like, oh, 0:48:13.800 --> 0:48:18.600 you know what with electronics, if we publish like how 0:48:18.600 --> 0:48:21.960 to other people can fix these things and basically give 0:48:22.719 --> 0:48:26.680 repair companies repair manuals. Like it's it leads people vulnerable 0:48:26.719 --> 0:48:30.560 to hackers that they can get information from that electronic device. 0:48:30.680 --> 0:48:33.480 And I just call foul on that. That sounds like 0:48:33.520 --> 0:48:34.480 a bunch of bs to me. 0:48:35.040 --> 0:48:37.920 They're like, don't forget hackers. Hackers are going to get 0:48:37.960 --> 0:48:38.480 you more. 0:48:39.320 --> 0:48:45.359 Yeah, because you want your whatever your iPhone. 0:48:44.080 --> 0:48:48.360 Fixed, right and you can't. I have an Acer Swift 0:48:48.480 --> 0:48:52.040 laptop that I love, but it's I've tried to replace 0:48:52.080 --> 0:48:55.640 the battery before and it's designed to not replace the battery. 0:48:55.960 --> 0:48:59.000 You cannot replace the battery, and obviously the battery is 0:48:59.000 --> 0:49:00.000 the first thing that goes out. 0:49:00.719 --> 0:49:01.520 It's infuriating. 0:49:01.520 --> 0:49:04.360 It is infuriating because it's like he made it so 0:49:04.400 --> 0:49:07.600 that you have to get rid of your laptop and 0:49:07.719 --> 0:49:11.600 get another one. It drives me nuts. So if you 0:49:11.680 --> 0:49:16.440 put all this together, chuck like electronics companies successfully lobbying 0:49:16.480 --> 0:49:21.719 against right to repair laws, companies using planned obsolescens left 0:49:21.719 --> 0:49:24.640 and right, people like Gary just throwing their stuff away 0:49:24.640 --> 0:49:30.080 to be jerks like, how can this even be implemented? 0:49:30.920 --> 0:49:34.720 I can't see it happening, at least in the United States. 0:49:34.719 --> 0:49:37.360 I know the EU is really taking some strides towards 0:49:37.360 --> 0:49:39.880 this stuff, and hats off to them. But in the 0:49:39.960 --> 0:49:46.279 United States, I can't in the foreseeable future, like as 0:49:46.280 --> 0:49:48.200 far as I can think out, I can't see this 0:49:48.280 --> 0:49:49.160 being implemented. 0:49:50.480 --> 0:49:54.719 No, I mean certainly not now with what's going on 0:49:54.719 --> 0:49:56.319 in our country, and that I'm not trying to get 0:49:56.320 --> 0:49:59.040 too political, but that's just the fact. It's not a 0:49:59.440 --> 0:50:03.720 not only a priority for our current administration to invest 0:50:03.800 --> 0:50:06.400 at all in something like a circular economy, but it's 0:50:06.480 --> 0:50:10.000 not even on the radar, right, or or its outright 0:50:10.040 --> 0:50:11.840 being squashed right. 0:50:12.239 --> 0:50:15.240 Even more disturbing is that even outside of the United States, 0:50:15.239 --> 0:50:20.520 globally speaking, recycling or secondary materials being put back in 0:50:20.600 --> 0:50:24.480 as inputs is actually on the decline by significant numbers. 0:50:25.000 --> 0:50:28.480 Yeah, we're headed in the wrong direction, right, even though 0:50:28.520 --> 0:50:31.560 Day points out that like social media posts and articles 0:50:31.600 --> 0:50:34.640 about the circular economy are have tripled in the last 0:50:34.680 --> 0:50:37.560 five years, so there's more awareness. But we're going in 0:50:37.600 --> 0:50:40.720 the wrong direction as far as actual you know, feed 0:50:40.760 --> 0:50:41.800 on the floor kind of stuff. 0:50:41.880 --> 0:50:45.000 Yeah, and consumption keeps growing and growing and growing. Apparently 0:50:45.719 --> 0:50:49.839 from twenty eighteen to twenty twenty four, we consumed five 0:50:49.960 --> 0:50:55.600 hundred gigatons of material. That's everything raw material, finished material, 0:50:55.840 --> 0:51:00.200 fossil fuels, and that is twenty eight percent of the 0:51:00.280 --> 0:51:03.120 total amount we consumed in the last one hundred and 0:51:03.160 --> 0:51:08.279 twenty five years. Yeah, so it's just growing exponentially. So yeah, 0:51:08.360 --> 0:51:11.000 there's a lot of stuff to overcome. You might say 0:51:11.320 --> 0:51:14.000 it would take like an authoritarian government to implement this 0:51:14.080 --> 0:51:18.360 kind of thing. And it turns out China has committed 0:51:18.400 --> 0:51:22.360 to creating a circular economy for themselves back in the 0:51:22.400 --> 0:51:26.439 two thousands, and apparently they're focused right now on automotive 0:51:26.960 --> 0:51:30.839 re manufacturing, which is essentially taking old cars and refurbishing 0:51:30.880 --> 0:51:33.000 them and their parts, selling them like new at a 0:51:33.000 --> 0:51:37.879 discountant price because they're refurbished. Oh okay, so I guess 0:51:37.960 --> 0:51:40.160 keep an eye on China and the EU to see 0:51:40.160 --> 0:51:44.360 where things go. Chuck laughed a little bit, but his 0:51:44.440 --> 0:51:46.799 laugh was dripping with Okay, let's go to a listener mail. 0:51:46.840 --> 0:51:48.480 So he just unlocked listener mail. 0:51:50.960 --> 0:51:52.799 This is a correction on a correction. So we heard 0:51:52.840 --> 0:51:56.560 from quite a few people about the most famous brand 0:51:56.640 --> 0:52:01.600 Fortian people wrote in, said Alexander Graham Bell Forget Gretzky 0:52:01.800 --> 0:52:05.440 and Phil Hartman Alexander Grahm Bell was not born in Branford, 0:52:05.440 --> 0:52:07.040 so this is from Joel. Hey, guys, probably not the 0:52:07.040 --> 0:52:09.160 first person to say this, but I'm correcting your email 0:52:09.200 --> 0:52:12.440 correction that claimed Alexander Grambell was born in Branford. He 0:52:12.480 --> 0:52:15.360 certainly lived in Branford, so they claim him he was 0:52:15.400 --> 0:52:17.719 born in Scotland and move to Branford as a young man. 0:52:18.719 --> 0:52:20.080 I guess at one point in his life he would 0:52:20.120 --> 0:52:24.279 definitely say he was from Branford, but that's not where 0:52:24.280 --> 0:52:27.120 he's from. Love the show. That is from Joel Dawson. 0:52:27.600 --> 0:52:30.840 Very nice. So I guess Phil Hartman moves back up 0:52:30.880 --> 0:52:31.520 to number two. 0:52:33.000 --> 0:52:35.520 I guess so. And you know what, whenever someone sends 0:52:35.520 --> 0:52:38.239 in their business or something and it seems pretty cool, 0:52:38.480 --> 0:52:41.480 we like to tout them. Yes, and Joel signed his with 0:52:42.480 --> 0:52:46.319 Free Spirit Tours dot c A. So I'm looking now 0:52:46.320 --> 0:52:49.680 it looks like paddling and stand up paddle boarding, caving, 0:52:50.920 --> 0:52:54.280 forest therapy, wine tastings wouldness wellness. 0:52:55.320 --> 0:52:57.520 Also, I want to shout out which bolt again? Did 0:52:57.520 --> 0:52:59.160 you see which bowl got in touch with this to 0:52:59.200 --> 0:53:02.920 say thanks for the mentioned on the Alchemy episode. I 0:53:02.920 --> 0:53:05.399 did not see that they did. He did. I should say. 0:53:06.120 --> 0:53:07.799 He got in touch to say, hey, you guys want 0:53:07.840 --> 0:53:10.080 some T shirts? Thanks a lot. He's been listening for 0:53:10.160 --> 0:53:12.720 fifteen years. His name is Nick. He's been a listener 0:53:12.719 --> 0:53:16.520 for fifteen years. Which Bolt has, Remember the Dungeon synth guy? 0:53:17.480 --> 0:53:18.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:53:18.239 --> 0:53:20.920 So he wrote in and I was like, I'm actually 0:53:21.000 --> 0:53:23.640 a little starstruck right now. So there's like this big 0:53:23.800 --> 0:53:27.520 circular love fest going on, not a circular economy, but 0:53:27.560 --> 0:53:29.840 a circular love fest going on between Stuff you Should 0:53:29.840 --> 0:53:31.000 Know in Which Bolt right now? 0:53:31.360 --> 0:53:31.840 Yeah? 0:53:31.920 --> 0:53:33.560 All right, Well, if you want to get in touch 0:53:33.600 --> 0:53:37.160 with us, like Joel or which Bolt, you can send 0:53:37.280 --> 0:53:40.280 us an email too, send it off to stuff podcast 0:53:40.320 --> 0:53:43.000 at iHeartRadio dot com. 0:53:44.840 --> 0:53:47.719 Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 0:53:47.800 --> 0:53:52.000 more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:53:52.080 --> 0:53:57.520 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.