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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry'll be here eventually, but for now, all

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Speaker 2: you got is Josh and Chuck. But really, what more

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Speaker 2: do you need? Ton of stuff you should know?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in our world, in about two or three minutes,

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Speaker 1: Jerry will just come in and go, hey, I'm here, gos, Sorry,

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Speaker 1: I'm late.

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Speaker 2: I feel like she's learned not to do that. She'll

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Speaker 2: just sit there on mute for a while. Really, yeah,

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Speaker 2: she hasn't done it in a little while. She's really

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Speaker 2: turned over a new leaf. All right, we'll see, we'll see.

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Speaker 2: We should leave it in if she does come in, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we should do that. We'll share with everybody.

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Speaker 1: Except they'll just hear our ends. Although here is oh god, Jerry.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, I think as she chimes in on riverside,

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Speaker 2: we could edit that into the final all.

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Speaker 1: Right, edit. This will be a fun test.

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Speaker 2: It will be and there's a little peak behind the

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Speaker 2: curtains for everybody of how we do our thing slap dash,

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Speaker 2: that's right while making fun and Jerry.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, I just noticed we were not on the

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Speaker 1: list of time magazine's one hundred greatest podcast of all time?

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Speaker 2: What really?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was funny because I saw that list and

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Speaker 1: my first instinct was, I mean, top one hundred, Like

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Speaker 1: that's a lot, Like, surely we cracked the top one hundred.

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Speaker 2: They probably haven't heard of us, is what it is.

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Speaker 1: Now. We're not on there. Literally all of our old

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Speaker 1: time colleagues, you name it, Radio Lab ninety nine percent invisible,

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Speaker 1: Ira Maren like every podcast of note of the past

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Speaker 1: eighteen years except for spe Wow.

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Speaker 2: That's very stuff you should know, isn't.

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Speaker 1: It It is? It is very fitting.

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Speaker 2: We don't let that stuff get to us.

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Speaker 1: So do we know Time magazine who cares?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? And even though they put out a stupid podcast list.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, watch, we're going to be Men of the Year. Now.

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Speaker 2: The headline on the cover will be like, oh gosh,

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Speaker 2: we forgot.

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Speaker 1: Well you'll be Man of the Year, but I won't

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Speaker 1: be mentor That's how it would work.

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Speaker 2: That's what Time does. They tinker with relationships by dividing.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Speaking of tinkering, I think we could all

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Speaker 1: tinker with our worldwide economy a bit and perhaps make

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Speaker 1: it more circular.

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Speaker 2: What are you talking about?

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Speaker 1: Well, Josh, I'm talking about our topic at hand, mhm,

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Speaker 1: talking about circular economy.

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Speaker 2: My friend, Oh, I got I didn't get the reference.

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Speaker 2: M So have you heard of this before? Uh yeah, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I ran across it. As far as I know, it's

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Speaker 2: fairly new from the two thousand aughts. I didn't see

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Speaker 2: that it was an idea that was laying around already

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Speaker 2: in this exact form and then was picked up and promoted.

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Speaker 2: So it's possible it was generally created by the Ellen

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Speaker 2: MacArthur Foundation.

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Speaker 1: Hats off to Ellen MacArthur.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, Ellen MacArthur, as far as I know, still

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Speaker 2: holds the world record for the fastest solo sail trip

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Speaker 2: around the entire world, twenty six thousand miles of circumnavigation

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Speaker 2: circular in seventy two days. Yeah, she loves circles and

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Speaker 2: apparently on her trip. I was reading about it. It

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Speaker 2: sounds just insane. And by the way, whenever I read

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Speaker 2: of like world sailing trips, I can't help but think

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Speaker 2: of one of the best documentaries of all time, Deep

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Speaker 2: Water about Donald Crowhurst. I believe you've seen it before.

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Speaker 2: I know we've talked about it. Oh, if you haven't

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Speaker 2: seen it, I actually envy you.

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Speaker 1: Is this the guy h the diver?

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Speaker 2: Nope, he's a sailor. There was about like a nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy five World Sailing competition.

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Speaker 1: So he was, mi, is it deep water if he

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Speaker 1: wasn't deep in the.

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Speaker 2: Water, because he's he's sailing over deep water.

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Speaker 1: Oh, over DeepArt. They should call it over deep water.

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Speaker 1: You sailing over deep water?

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Speaker 2: You should actually all wait, but let's just pause recording

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Speaker 2: and go watch it. Is that good?

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Speaker 1: I'll look into that. I've been on a documentary kick lately,

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Speaker 1: so I'll I'm ripe.

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Speaker 2: This is time. Would put this one on their top

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Speaker 2: one hundred documentaries of all time probably, so yeah. So

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Speaker 2: while she was sailing around the world, she just started.

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Speaker 2: She had, I guess, a lot of time to think

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Speaker 2: and saw a lot of waste and junk and terrible

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Speaker 2: stuff and realize that there's a better way. And a

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Speaker 2: lot of people have thought like, Okay, there's a better

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Speaker 2: way to do this. There has to be. And what

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Speaker 2: she promotes, what she's kind of come up with is

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Speaker 2: this idea of a circular economy. In a very short

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Speaker 2: back of the envelope sketch of it, the outputs, the

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Speaker 2: waste of the economy get reused as inputs as basically

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Speaker 2: turned into aw materials, and people say, oh, recycling, that's

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Speaker 2: a big part of it. But as far as the

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Speaker 2: circular economy is concerned, we idealize recycling like we're like,

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Speaker 2: that's the best you can do. They're like, that's actually

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Speaker 2: the least desirable out of all of them. There's a

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Speaker 2: bunch of other stuff we can do instead. So circular economy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it sort of aligns with the whole reduce, reuse,

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Speaker 1: recycle ethos. I think we could best explain it by

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Speaker 1: maybe starting with what we generally have now, which is

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Speaker 1: linearar economy. And that's who helped us with this. Dave.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Dave helped us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's smacks of Dave, but Dave calls it and

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Speaker 1: Dave didn't invent this term. But it's a take make

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Speaker 1: waste economy system where you take resources and you know whatever,

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Speaker 1: like cotton or any kind of raw material, you make

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Speaker 1: something into that to a product to sell to people,

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Speaker 1: and then that thing maybe generally quickly wears out and

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Speaker 1: you throw it away and it goes into a landfill.

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Speaker 1: It's very I mean, it's kind of the worst possible

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Speaker 1: scenario you could ask for if you care about planet

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Speaker 1: Earth and people in the world and animals in nature.

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Speaker 1: And it's linear because it goes in one way. You

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Speaker 1: have something, you make something, and then that thing wears

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Speaker 1: out and you throw it in the landfill.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you take the cotton that you grow, you make

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Speaker 2: it into a car. You drive the car into a

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Speaker 2: landfill and jump out right before it goes over the cliff.

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Speaker 2: That's what everybody does.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: So you left out, kick back and watch the money

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Speaker 2: roll in, because that's ultimately what the biggest challenge to

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Speaker 2: implementing a circular economy is. One of the biggest ones

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Speaker 2: is that the linear economy that we have set up

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Speaker 2: that's been around since the Industrial Revolution is a money

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Speaker 2: making machine. And it's easy to criticize when you sit

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Speaker 2: there and look at all of the terrible waste and

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Speaker 2: pollution and inequality that's been generated from it. You can

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Speaker 2: also say, yeah, this wealth has funded a lot of science,

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Speaker 2: it's improved a lot of living conditions. Even the poorest

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Speaker 2: people in America are living high on the hog compared

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Speaker 2: to the poorest people in other nations, like the wealthy

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Speaker 2: nations have really done well for themselves with the linear economy,

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Speaker 2: and again that's a big reason why there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of reticence to transition to something different.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, there are some you know, notable I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to think of a term we could come up

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Speaker 1: with that labels instead of a gold star, like an

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Speaker 1: industry that gets the opposite of that, like a turd

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Speaker 1: pin or something that.

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Speaker 2: You wear that worn't so much tird. But yes, that

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Speaker 2: would work very well.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what makes turd worse is that it's

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Speaker 1: spelled t rd.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that definitely does make it worse. Everything about that

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Speaker 2: word is so bad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, totally. So the four sectors that are sort

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Speaker 1: of the worst are food, electronics, consumer goods, and construction.

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Speaker 1: Food obviously, and we're going to get into these, you know,

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Speaker 1: more specifically as we go on, but generally speaking, food

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Speaker 1: is a pretty terrible sector. And we've talked about food

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Speaker 1: waste before, but it's not just the food waste that's

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Speaker 1: like tossed by grocery store and restaurants and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: but it's also you know a lot of places still

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Speaker 1: are just using those single use bags and people are like, sure,

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Speaker 1: double back it triple back it. I don't want my

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Speaker 1: tube of two face to fall through that thing into

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Speaker 1: the parking lot, and then all the packaging that goes

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Speaker 1: into it. And we've you know again, we've covered all

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Speaker 1: this stuff in various forms here and there. Unsustainable farming, electronics.

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Speaker 1: Don't even get me started on electronics. Recycling and electronics

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Speaker 1: that are basically impossible to repair or get repaired.

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Speaker 2: Well, they're designed that way. If we did an entire

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Speaker 2: episode on that planned obsolescence.

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Speaker 1: And nothing gets me more mad. Almost.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when a company purposefully designs a product to break

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Speaker 2: in a short amount of time, like they'll put some

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Speaker 2: sort of sensor or electrical component next to something that

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Speaker 2: generates a lot of heat so that it degrades faster,

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Speaker 2: Like it's designed to break for you to throw away

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Speaker 2: and then go buy another one. That's a big problem. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like you said with electronics, But clothing is another one too.

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Speaker 2: It's designed to just be worn. You buy it cheaply,

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Speaker 2: you wear it for a little bit, you throw it away,

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Speaker 2: and we'll, like you said, we'll talk more about this

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Speaker 2: stuff later. But my eyes started popping out when I

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Speaker 2: was reading about clothing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one for sure. And then construction. A lot

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Speaker 1: of resources used in construction and you know, basically construction

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Speaker 1: materials anytime we've done any sort of like renovation project.

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Speaker 1: Because you know, we live in like a hundred year

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Speaker 1: old house, so we instead of moving, we kind of

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Speaker 1: stayed and fixed it up over the years, at first

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Speaker 1: by ourselves and then with you know the help of

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Speaker 1: contractors and such. And as you know you've been through

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Speaker 1: stuff like that, it's like when that construction dumpster pulls up,

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Speaker 1: we do everything we can. We fight tooth and nail

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Speaker 1: to give stuff away, Like, hey, can you put all

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Speaker 1: these awesome hundred year old bricks out by the sidewalk.

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Speaker 1: Someone will take them and you know they will acquiesce.

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Speaker 1: You know, they hate dealing with us because they just

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Speaker 1: want to throw that stuff in the dumpster. But we've

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Speaker 1: managed to get rid of a you know, we're going

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Speaker 1: through a little thing now. And I had this really

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Speaker 1: awesome screen door and they were literally throwing this really

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Speaker 1: nice screen door. It was like a good one. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't just like a forty dollars screen door.

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Speaker 2: It was like a Prada screen door.

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Speaker 1: No, this is Gucci, I think, no. But it was

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Speaker 1: like a from like a craftsman company for craftsmen homes.

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Speaker 1: It was sort of like an upscale screen door, and

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Speaker 1: they were throwing at the trash and almost tackle the guy.

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Speaker 1: And I put that thing out there and it was

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Speaker 1: gone in an hour, you know. And I bet just

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Speaker 1: little things like that make me feel like, oh God,

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Speaker 1: I saved one little thing from the landfill.

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Speaker 2: Nice work man.

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Speaker 1: Not for a pat on them back, but you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, It.

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Speaker 2: Just it's a conservant.

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Speaker 1: It just kills our consciences, just burning up when they're

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Speaker 1: throwing away, even old wood and stuff. You know. I

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Speaker 1: try to take that stuff to the camp and burn it.

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Speaker 2: You know what I found. When you're dealing with contractors

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Speaker 2: and subcontractors, if you want them to do something, you

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Speaker 2: have to tell them directly, yeah, and a kind of

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Speaker 2: an authoritative voice and then finished also with chop chop.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And also stand there and watch them because as

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Speaker 1: soon as you leave, they'll just say like whatever, dude.

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Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, yeah for sure. Okay, So you guys

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Speaker 2: out there listening probably have bloody crescent shape fingernail marks

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Speaker 2: on the heel of your palms from hearing all this stuff.

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Speaker 2: So just settle down, relax a little bit, because now

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Speaker 2: we're going to tell you a little bit about an

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Speaker 2: alternative to that, the closed loop model, not linear circular,

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Speaker 2: the circular economy, and it basically says it takes a

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Speaker 2: look at everything wrong with the linear economy and fixes

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Speaker 2: it one by one. And it's like there's a lot

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Speaker 2: left open. It's not like this is just a like

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Speaker 2: a completely ready to go economic model. It's going to

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Speaker 2: solve every single problem and it's not going to create

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Speaker 2: any other problems. It's more we're at the most conceptual star. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that is being presented to people to say, hey, there's

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Speaker 2: another way, and here are some of the ways we

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Speaker 2: can do it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's sort of just the opposite of everything

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Speaker 1: we were just saying. Instead of planned obsolescence, there's a

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Speaker 1: planned Permanen's like, hey, let's make something that lasts for

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Speaker 1: a long time. That's one. Makes something that's repairrable. That's another. One.

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Speaker 1: Really kind of brilliant thing that we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about later is this idea of instead of owning something

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Speaker 1: like sharing stuff, renting things, sharing things, paying for the

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Speaker 1: use of things that you don't own, right, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: splitting that up and then if something finally does reach

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Speaker 1: the end of its life, because not everything will last forever,

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Speaker 1: even the most well made thing. Those components then you

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Speaker 1: can take down and hopefully most of not all of

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Speaker 1: that can be recycled or remade into something else.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you'll notice, reduction of consumption isn't an

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Speaker 2: emphasis of this. I didn't see that talked about much

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Speaker 2: at all. So no one's saying like, hey, you can't

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Speaker 2: keep growing. It's just that the stuff that you're creating

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Speaker 2: needs to last much, much longer, and the greatest thing

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Speaker 2: you can do is to keep it as close to

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Speaker 2: the consumer as possible. Right, So let's say you have

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Speaker 2: a hammer. Everybody knows a hammer breaks, like the second

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Speaker 2: time you ever use it.

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Speaker 1: Would you hammer in the morning more of the evening

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Speaker 1: for me?

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Speaker 2: Okay, but I would do it all over the land, right,

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Speaker 2: So when you take a hammer, I was kidding about

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Speaker 2: it breaking. But if you have a hammer and you

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Speaker 2: don't use it a lot, the best you could do

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Speaker 2: is give it to somebody else who is going to

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Speaker 2: use it more, rather than throw the hammer away. That's

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Speaker 2: a terrible example. I know people don't really throw hammers away,

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Speaker 2: but keeping it it reused, so that there's no inputs

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Speaker 2: or very little inputs. That's the ideal. The more inputs necessary,

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Speaker 2: taking it apart, transporting it somewhere, putting it back together,

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Speaker 2: refurbishing it, that is the least desirable, even though that's

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Speaker 2: still within this scope that we currently have in the

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Speaker 2: linear model. That that's like the best you can do.

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Speaker 2: The you know, like recycling, recycling is the last thing

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Speaker 2: you want to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and hammer's not the worst idea, my friend, because

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Speaker 1: I'd say ninety nine percent of the people out there,

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Speaker 1: if they're hammer handle breaks. Let's say you have a

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Speaker 1: wooden hammer handle and that breaks, people just throw it

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Speaker 1: in the trash and you can fix that. One of

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Speaker 1: my favorite things to do is I follow a few

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Speaker 1: Instagram accounts where people fix things in front of your

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Speaker 1: face like that, just simple everyday things. And it's incredibly

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Speaker 1: rewarding to see someone take something that would normally be

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Speaker 1: in the trash and they're like, Oh, you need to

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Speaker 1: do is get another piece of wood. Get that other

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Speaker 1: piece of wood fully out of there, h and shape

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Speaker 1: it like the broken piece. And then you've got another hammer.

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Speaker 2: How do you shape it like the broken piece? What

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Speaker 2: tool do you need for that?

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, these people do this for a living,

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Speaker 1: so they may have a lath or something, but like,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't even have to be pretty. I could I

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Speaker 1: bet you give me a broken hammer, buddy, with my

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Speaker 1: limited tools and skills, I could make that hammer new

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Speaker 1: again if I really wanted to.

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Speaker 2: Okay, here's a challenge. I challenge all stuff you should

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Speaker 2: know listeners to mail Chuck your broken hammers and he

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Speaker 2: will show every single one of them for you for

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Speaker 2: free and mail them back out of his own pocket.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Send it to a top one hundred podcaster

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Speaker 1: at one two three Lane, Atlanta, Georgia. Should we take

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Speaker 1: a break, Yeah, let's.

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Speaker 2: Take a break.

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Speaker 1: All right, we'll be right back.

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Speaker 2: So okay, so far basically what we've been saying are

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Speaker 2: all good ideas. Very few people are like no, I

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Speaker 2: want to throw my hammer away. I get the deep

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Speaker 2: satisfaction throwing that broken hammer away. Most people just don't

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Speaker 2: want their hammer to break, which again is addressed like

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Speaker 2: making products planned for permanence, making them just better rather

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Speaker 2: than cheaper. But all of this stuff like is going

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Speaker 2: to take a complete shift in how we view economics,

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Speaker 2: how we view growth, and also how we view consumer

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Speaker 2: behavior because we're in a linear model right now, and

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Speaker 2: the basis of the linear model is making it as

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Speaker 2: easy as possible for you to buy and use and

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Speaker 2: throw away get rid of whatever product it is you're buying,

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Speaker 2: whether it's potato chips, a hammer, a cotton for a car, whatever.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna get me every time. By the way, I

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Speaker 1: could keep going back to that. Well, yeah, but you know,

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Speaker 1: there are examples of things and companies that are and

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Speaker 1: have been doing this. You know, Dave looked down on

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Speaker 1: his kitchen table and saw an aluminum can, was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: there's a good example right there. Aluminum is a very

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Speaker 1: recyclable thing, and thankfully it's it's being recycled and at

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Speaker 1: pretty good rates. It depends on where you are. If

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Speaker 1: like you're in Brazil, that's about one hundred percent, if

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Speaker 1: you're in the USA about sixty five percent. But the

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Speaker 1: average aluminum can that you're gonna purchase in the United

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Speaker 1: States is made from about seventy one percent recycled material.

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Speaker 1: So we're doing okay there, it's a good example.

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Speaker 2: We're doing great. It's a great example. It's the probably

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Speaker 2: the top example as far as the United States goes.

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Speaker 2: People tend to recycle cans, and they're easy to recycle,

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Speaker 2: So we have a process in an infrastructure that makes

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Speaker 2: the whole thing fairly low hanging fruit. And because aluminum

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Speaker 2: cans are light enough but also compactable, you can transport

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Speaker 2: a bunch of them, so it's worth your while to

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Speaker 2: transport them from a pickup site to like our actual

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Speaker 2: recycling centers. It's just checking all of the boxes. Even still,

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Speaker 2: though you see, with as easy as it is, thirty

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Speaker 2: five percent of those aluminum cans just get thrown away

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Speaker 2: in the trash.

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Speaker 1: Who's doing that?

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Speaker 2: A lot of people? I mean, I'll do that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know, it's it's kind of nuts, but that is

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Speaker 2: the case. So that right there just kind of goes

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Speaker 2: to show you like that's where the consumer behavior needs

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Speaker 2: to change. Everything else is basically in place for us

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Speaker 2: to recycle all of the aluminum cans that we have,

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Speaker 2: we're just not doing it. So that's like kind of

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Speaker 2: one pillar or an example of one of the pillars

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Speaker 2: that has to be adapted to go to a circular

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Speaker 2: economy making people more thoughtful.

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Speaker 1: I guess, good luck, buddy.

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Speaker 2: I know, I think that's probably more than anything what

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Speaker 2: makes this a pipe dream, I should say. The most

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Speaker 2: cynical side of me says that.

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Speaker 1: Is, getting everybody on board with a single idea these

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Speaker 1: days is not possible, basically.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because all it takes is one schmo to throw

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Speaker 2: his can away in the trash and you just lost

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Speaker 2: you one hundred percent recycling status and then everybody goes,

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Speaker 2: what's the point of a circular economy anyway? And goes

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Speaker 2: back to the linear economy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but the stat that could throw out then is

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent except Gary, mm, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, and it would be a Gary.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry Gary's. You know, it's true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not all Garys are bad, but all bad people

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Speaker 2: are Gary's.

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Speaker 1: There's the stuff you should know shirt, not all Gary's.

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Speaker 1: Just that's it, okay. There are also some examples of

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Speaker 1: companies that, you know, I'm a big Shark Tank fan

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Speaker 1: of that TV show, and it seems like more and

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Speaker 1: more companies are coming through there that are that are small,

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Speaker 1: and obviously they're small because they're on Shark Tank and

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Speaker 1: looking for initial investments, but they're trying to do the

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Speaker 1: right thing here. Getting corporations on board is the big problem.

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Speaker 1: But I've seen a lot of companies come through Shark

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Speaker 1: Tank where they're like and the reason I mentioned this

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Speaker 1: is because Unilever is one of the examples of a

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Speaker 1: corporation that's partnered with the Ella MacArthur Foundation. They're reducing

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Speaker 1: plastic waste and they sell a ton of stuff. But

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Speaker 1: like when they're selling detergent and stuff like that, or shampoo,

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Speaker 1: now they have programs where you're like, hey, send in

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Speaker 1: your empty shampoo bottle and we will fill that thing

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Speaker 1: up and send it back to you or get it

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Speaker 1: and concentrate stuff like that. And there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: like shark Tank companies that are doing similar things, including

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Speaker 1: cleaning products, where they're like, hey, there's a better way

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Speaker 1: to do this, where you're just not even if you're

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Speaker 1: recycling that plastic, just burning through these things on a

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Speaker 1: daily and weekly basis and tossing it in the recycling

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Speaker 1: or worse trash.

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Speaker 2: For sure, right, And I think like entrepreneurs creating small

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Speaker 2: businesses and focusing on like one thing that is sustainable, reusable, whatever,

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Speaker 2: that's how larger corporations start doing that stuff because they

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Speaker 2: buy those smaller corporations for that idea and implement it

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Speaker 2: company wide hopefully. So that's great that those people are

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Speaker 2: out there.

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Speaker 1: Or they squash it, yeah, or they squash it. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Lord, I just wanted to tell everybody we should say hi, Jerry,

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Speaker 2: Jerry's here everyone.

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Speaker 1: Oh I was I was wrong.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw that there are I did not see

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Speaker 2: a single shampoo refilling station in the US there. I

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Speaker 2: found them in Indonesia, Mexico, Philippines, and Pakistan so far.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's that's even better because then you're not,

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Speaker 1: you know, mailing stuff, you know, because that's another type

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Speaker 1: of ways. It's like just mailing the empty bottles and

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Speaker 1: having that mail back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I mean, if you're going to the

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Speaker 2: store already and they're like, they're attractive little shampoo refilling centers,

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Speaker 2: and I guess if you were really hard up, you

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Speaker 2: could go just put your head under the nozzle and

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Speaker 2: do a little little squirt and then run home and

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Speaker 2: wash your hair.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean they've been doing that with the big

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Speaker 1: five gallon jugs of water forever, you know, at most right,

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Speaker 1: I thought of that too. Yeah, that's a good thing

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Speaker 1: because those things are are huge, and just swapping those

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Speaker 1: out and refilling them just it only makes sense. Yep.

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Speaker 2: There's also there's a Dutch company called Niaga, which is

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Speaker 2: again backwards. You'd never know that unless someone told you,

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Speaker 2: or you happen to be wearing a Niaga T shirt

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Speaker 2: in front of a mirror.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is the word again. I think just the

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Speaker 1: way you said that might be confusing.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I got you. Yeah, I'm sure it was confusing.

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Speaker 2: Can't you just hear like a time podcast monitor going

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Speaker 2: and like checking some box that keeps us off the list?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like one on one.

436
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 2: So if we're lucky. So this company, they're Dutch, they

437
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 2: targeted carpets and mattresses and those are two of the

438
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 2: worst offenders as far as at least as far as

439
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 2: textiles go, but maybe as far as all products go. Yeah,

440
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 2: because they're big, they're essentially impossible to recycle. They're very,

441
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 2: very hard to recycle, and people throw a lot of

442
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 2: them away. I think twenty million mattresses are thrown away

443
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 2: in the United States alone, thirty million in Europe. And

444
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 2: we tossed about two billion pounds yeah, of carpet away

445
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 2: every year in the United States into landfills. Only five

446
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 2: percent of carpet gets recycled. I couldn't even tell you

447
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 2: where you would recycle carpet.

448
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 1: I don't know. Is there a place called recarpet Maybe

449
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: that's what it should be called, right.

450
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 2: Or carpets again, right, or all of that backward. Yeah.

451
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: I mean the other reason those two they're targeting those

452
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: two a is because the people of the Netherlands are great.

453
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: And hey, if you live in the Netherlands and you

454
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: would go see a live podcast of us there in Amsterdam,

455
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: let us know. Sure, let's go ahead and just say

456
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: that we're putting out feelers for Europe, so we'd love

457
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: to hear from people about where we might could get

458
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 1: an audience. Sure, is that okay to say that?

459
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should probably tell everybody it won't be for

460
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 2: two years.

461
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're targeting twenty seven, but we're going to get

462
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 1: back on the road next year, coming for you Canada

463
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:12,360
Speaker 1: in a big way.

464
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, So you better close the borders.

465
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 1: That's a little Well, they might hope it will be

466
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: welcome to get a pass.

467
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 2: I hope it's up in the air.

468
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,239
Speaker 1: But long way of saying, the reason that they are

469
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: targeting those specifically is not just the lifespan, but they

470
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: actually have a name. They're called Medium Life Bulky Products.

471
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: They you know, this stuff lasts about ten years, and

472
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: they're just full of nasty chemicals, and so all of

473
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 1: that leads to them being the two of the worst defenders.

474
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 1: Mattresses and carpet full of chemicals don't last long, and

475
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: they're fairly large.

476
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially if they're stained mattresses.

477
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, good luck recycling that.

478
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 2: I saw eighty two and twenty years for a mattress

479
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: to degrade in a landfill, which actually seemed a little

480
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 2: fast for me. You know, it's still not fast enough.

481
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 2: So this company is like, Okay, we're actually going to

482
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 2: make this stuff out of recyclable materials. But even better

483
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 2: than that, we're going to make it so that every

484
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 2: part of the mattress is replaceable.

485
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: Imagine that or repaarable.

486
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 2: Yes, so you're like, I got just a gallons of

487
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 2: urine staining the cover of my mattress. I need a

488
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: new mattress cover. Rather than throwing out the whole mattress

489
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 2: and waiting one hundred and twenty years for it to degrade,

490
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 2: you just call up Niaga and you say, hey, send

491
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 2: me another mattress cover, and they say, hey, we didn't

492
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 2: know that you could call direct from the United states

493
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 2: to the Netherlands. But that's new for us. We'll send

494
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: it to you straight away and they send it to you.

495
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 2: You put it back on and there's no yearine whatsoever

496
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 2: until the next time it happens.

497
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: That's right. But they say what's the magic word and

498
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 1: you have to go bug in like it's like a

499
00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: two year old.

500
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 2: Again, that's the actually do that.

501
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: It's great, And we'll look at other Dutch companies because

502
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: they they're they're doing the right thing. It seems like

503
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. One key to all of

504
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 1: this is, uh design. If you have a linear economy,

505
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: which we do. Like we said, it's it's purpose it's purposeful.

506
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: It's designed in such a way to make it, you know,

507
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: either obsolete or just you know, a mattress that can't

508
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: be recovered or whatever. So you have to start with design.

509
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 1: It has to start on the very conceptual phase of like,

510
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: how could we make a mattress that could last you forever?

511
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: And then you design it that way because it's possible.

512
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and design doesn't just apply to products, although that's

513
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 2: the easiest thing to do, is to say, Okay, how

514
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 2: can I design this product to fit into the existing

515
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: recycling infrastructure, or design it to be reusable or repairrable.

516
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: That's the easiest one. We also, though, need to design

517
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 2: our recycling infrastructure to make it easier to recycle products

518
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 2: that aren't designed to be recycled. So there's a lot

519
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 2: of design that has to go. But you're right, like,

520
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 2: it has to be a conscious choice, and Dave points

521
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 2: out something I think is important too, Waste is a

522
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 2: conscious choice too, Like when your little like mini bag

523
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 2: of lazed potato chips, when you're done with it, you

524
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 2: throw it away. It was designed to be thrown away,

525
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 2: like that was a decision that was made by the

526
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 2: package designers. They didn't do anything to try to make

527
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 2: it recyclable. They decided that the best thing for you

528
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 2: to do with that package is to throw it away.

529
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 2: And as much as you hate it, you have no choice.

530
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: Your choice is to buy those those lazed potato chips

531
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: or not buy them. And some people are starting to

532
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: based on the packaging. So people so some companies are

533
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 2: starting to wake up. But for the most part, people

534
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 2: are like, I don't want to think about but the

535
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 2: packaging that my potato chips come in. I have so

536
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,239
Speaker 2: many more bigger pressing issues right now that if you

537
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 2: can just make it so that the people don't have

538
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 2: to think about recycling it, then you're onto something.

539
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent.

540
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 2: And I was talking about myself. I don't want to

541
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 2: think about what I'm supposed to know on a potato

542
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 2: chip package. And I'm not being judgy, like I'm including

543
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 2: myself in this like I I mean, I would like

544
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 2: to think I'm more conscientious than say the average person,

545
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 2: but I'm certainly I'm not at like Chuck level.

546
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: I'm not like the Emily level. You know me, I'm

547
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: on her coattails right well. I mean when I was

548
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: a kid, we had the Charles Chips driver come around. Yeah,

549
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: I remember that, and we would give them our I mean,

550
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: if you're of a certain age, you might remember this.

551
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: There was a literal potato chip delivery company. They were

552
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: called Charles Chips, and they came in a big metal

553
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: ten and you would finish with that ten, and your

554
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: chip person would come by and you would give them

555
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: the ten of empty chips and they would give you

556
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: a full ten of chips.

557
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. They'd reach in with the cuff of their shirt,

558
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 2: wipe the tin out, put the chips in the tin

559
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 2: sometimes I saw.

560
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, And obviously again there's still waste with the delivery

561
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: truck and stuff, so save the emails. But we're talking

562
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: about you know, we're not idealizing it as perfect. We're

563
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: just saying like it's a better thing than what we're

564
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: doing now, which is those little foil bags sitting in

565
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: landfills for sure.

566
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 2: And yeah, that's another thing too, is because this is

567
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 2: kind of conceptual and not every issue is being tackled

568
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: right out of the gate with it. Like energy uses

569
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 2: a big part of it. So they obviously are like, well,

570
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: we need more renewables. That's kind of a no brainer.

571
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 2: But it's important because not everything can be done with

572
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: renew with renewable resources. Some stuff just requires fossil fuels.

573
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 2: Some stuff, say, requires nuclear, So you have to be

574
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: able to design those power plants or those industrial smoke

575
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: stacks so that that stuff's being captured and reused as

576
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: an input somehow.

577
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: Right exactly. And you know you talked about educating the consumer,

578
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: but and it's not educating the corporation because they know

579
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: this stuff. They do it on purpose for a reason,

580
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: like you said, But it's more about like companies coming

581
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: along where the end user isn't the single focus. They

582
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: take a more macro view and say, well, there's something

583
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: bigger at work with these products we sell, and that's

584
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: Planet Earth and Mother Nature. And while the consumer is

585
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: important and we want to give them a good product,

586
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: we can start from the beginning and design something that

587
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: has less of an environmental impact, designed to fit within

588
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: these recycling networks, like you know, aluminum, like you were

589
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: talking about, like once those are up and running, and

590
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: a big one that I didn't even think of that

591
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: day pointed out was like do you need this new product?

592
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: Does the consumer need it or is it just like, hey,

593
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: I think we could boost sales in Q three if

594
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: we released a slightly different version of this dumb same thing.

595
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 2: Right, So you kind of mentioned something where like using

596
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 2: something like leasing or renting something can also be applied

597
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 2: to things we don't normally think of is what we

598
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: lease or rent. Right. One of the again a Dutch

599
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 2: company called Bundles is basically they come to your house.

600
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: They'll bring you your dishwasher or your washing machine, or

601
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 2: your dryer, or your coffee maker, or you can bundle

602
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: it all together. It's the name, and they're going to

603
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 2: bring you a really high end Mela sustainably manufactured appliance,

604
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 2: and you're going to have this thing in your house

605
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 2: and you don't have to lift a finger other than

606
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 2: to use it. This company brings it, they install it,

607
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 2: they come by and maintain it when it's done. When

608
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: you're done with it, say you're moving and you can't

609
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 2: use it anymore, they're going to come pick it up.

610
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: They're going to refurbish it. They're going to bring it

611
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 2: to somebody else. It's like really circular. And the way

612
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: that you are charged for it is by the number

613
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:08,239
Speaker 2: of washes you I guess carry out. I guess that's

614
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 2: how you talk about launder you carry out a wash.

615
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 2: It is called a paper wash model, and the whole

616
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 2: basis of it is Wi Fi, like your washing machine

617
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 2: is connected to their servers, so they're tracking how many

618
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: times you're washing. And then from what I can tell,

619
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 2: you get a monthly bill based on the amount of

620
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 2: washes you did, the amount of use you did for that,

621
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 2: or you use for the washer or the dryer or whatever.

622
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 2: You know.

623
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: It might take away here is what You've never washed

624
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: your own clothes? Have you?

625
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: That is not true. I'm actually kind of good at

626
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 2: my own clothes. I had to get good because I

627
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 2: don't know how I do it. But there's not a

628
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: day that goes by that I don't get a spot

629
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: on one of my T shirts. So I've gotten good

630
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 2: at salvaging T shirts.

631
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: Same, same. It's incredible how stained my T shirt gets

632
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: on a regular basis. And I do believe you can

633
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: carry out a wash like nobody's business.

634
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: Shout. That's what I use. I shout it out. It

635
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 2: works really well.

636
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: I use and I hate having to use it. But

637
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: my friend from that has been working in wardrobe departments

638
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: in Hollywood for thirty years said, zout is the one

639
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: I've not heard of.

640
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: Zout? Why do you hate to use it? Is it

641
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 2: made from coal?

642
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: It's just one of those disgustingly smelly products.

643
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 2: Is it naptha?

644
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, but no, I mean they mask it.

645
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: It smells like, you know, just really really really really

646
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: heavily fragranced. Yeah, and you know we're not down with that.

647
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: So it gets out of spot. But it'll it'll taint

648
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: you gotta wash it by itself. It'll it'll taint your

649
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: whole load. Should we take a break, Yeah, all right,

650
00:33:44,440 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: We'll take a break and be right back. All right,

651
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: we're back. I did want to mention one thing. We

652
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: had to take a quicker break. We were laughing too hard.

653
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: But on bundles and that renting appliances, you have to

654
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: do a lot of education in the United States to

655
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: overcome the perception of what the rented appliances means. Yeah,

656
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: because we grew up in and you know, it's it's

657
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: probably still the same way as gen xer is, where

658
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: you know, appliance rental was something like you did if

659
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: you couldn't afford to buy stuff, like you rented your

660
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: TV or whatever. You're like, oh, man, that means you

661
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: don't have much money to buy a TV. But there

662
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: is a better way. And I wish they had the

663
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: here man, because we've had some really bad appliance luck

664
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: and it makes me so mad because this stuff's expensive.

665
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: I would love to rent washer and dryer.

666
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: Well, I'll rent you mine a bird.

667
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: They can carry out a heck of a watch.

668
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's part of the American dream to own your

669
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 2: own washer and dryer.

670
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: And I mean, man, no, I hate those things.

671
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 2: The government can take it from your cold dead hand

672
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 2: if they try, Uh, Yeah, that's definitely. It's definitely part

673
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 2: of American cultures. You own your stuff. Yes, you will

674
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 2: talk about food though, Okay, you own that too. If

675
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 2: you buy that, you own it here in the United States.

676
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 2: Not sure what it's like in other countries. But food

677
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 2: is a huge problem. We've done an entire episode I

678
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 2: think on food waste before. I know, we've talked about

679
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 2: it extensively because I remember, and what's sad is we've

680
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 2: been talking about this for decades now and the stat

681
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,240
Speaker 2: remains the same. A third of all of the food

682
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 2: grown in the world gets thrown away every year, about

683
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 2: a trillion dollars worth, and mindless amounts of water and

684
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 2: fertilizer and labor inputs just wasted. Not just in the

685
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: face of all that loss of like money or resources,

686
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 2: but it doesn't even get diverted to the poorest people

687
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 2: in the world who are starving.

688
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And that's a great episode, So I

689
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: encourage you to go listen to those. But one thing

690
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: I don't know that we've covered on any of these shows.

691
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 1: While we were you know, beating those horses.

692
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 2: What dead horses, skinning those cats, is.

693
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: The nutrient cycle. And you know obviously, you know, wasting

694
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 1: food is a is a moral problem, an ethical problem.

695
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: But one thing we haven't talked much about is that

696
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: it disrupts that nutrient cycle. If you look at nature,

697
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 1: the system they have is is a closed loop system there.

698
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 1: You know, things grow naturally out in the woods and

699
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: it is from soil that is being you know, if

700
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: it's just literally out in the forest, just being treated

701
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: naturally by the natural processes of Mother Earth, and then

702
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: an animal eats that thing and then poops it out,

703
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 1: and that poop goes back into the soil and feeds

704
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: the soil. That animal falls over dead one day, hopefully

705
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,240
Speaker 1: a very old age, then their bodies decompose and release

706
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: those nutrients back into the earth. And it is a

707
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: dare i say, elegant system that humans have come along

708
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: and completely disrupted.

709
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, we make food part of our linear economy where

710
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: the food waste doesn't just get tossed on the ground

711
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 2: and biodegrade into it. You don't want to do that anyway,

712
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 2: just the annual PSA. Don't throw apple cores and banana

713
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: peels on the ground because that's not a good thing

714
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 2: to do. What's the best thing to do is to

715
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 2: compost them and to some degree or some way. The

716
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 2: worst thing you can do, though, is to throw them

717
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 2: in a trash can and have them taken to the landfill,

718
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 2: because then those nutrients that were put into that food

719
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: have been taken out of the nutrient cycle for Earth,

720
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 2: at least for however long it's gonna take for that

721
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 2: entire landfill to degrade, which I can't even imagine how

722
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,439
Speaker 2: long it takes an entire landfill that just turned back

723
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 2: into nutrients and stuff. So it's disrupted in that way.

724
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 2: Then we also disrupt it because we don't tend to

725
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 2: collect our waste for reuse. It's an output, pure and simple,

726
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: we don't we don't put it back into the system.

727
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 2: So there's two ways that we disrupt the nutrient cycle

728
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 2: with our with the way that we treat our food.

729
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. This may be part of a suite, like

730
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: a playlist one day, because I just realized, we've done

731
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: things on sewage recycling or sewage treatment plants, we've done

732
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: them on landfills, So maybe we should do like a

733
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: little green playlist one day.

734
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,919
Speaker 2: Yeah. We got one on permaculture that was pretty great.

735
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

736
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 2: Before we move on though, I should say some of

737
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 2: that those what are called biosolids treated sewage. They it

738
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 2: does get reused in some cases. Have you used malorganite? Uh?

739
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 1: Why do I know that word. I think we've talked

740
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: about that.

741
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 2: It's a miracle fertilizer. It does wonders for your grass,

742
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 2: especially if you pair it with an inch of water

743
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 2: flooding your grass. But it's these little particles and they smell,

744
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 2: but not smell the way you would think because they

745
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 2: actually are treated sewage from Milwaukee's municipal sewerage system. Huh,

746
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 2: but they it's like a nitrogen boost for its fertilizer

747
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:34,320
Speaker 2: for your lawn. It's insane how well it works. It's cheap,

748
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 2: and you're reusing waste from the good people of Milwaukee.

749
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: Well that's great, and you can get.

750
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 2: It almost anywhere. It's very it's very abundant and easy

751
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: to get and I highly recommend it.

752
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: I'm down to zero grass now.

753
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 2: Oh, you could use it on basically any plants. So

754
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 2: if you have plants that like nitrogen, you can toss

755
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 2: a little milorganite on there.

756
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: I'll pass out along to Emily Sheep. I'm sure she

757
00:39:58,760 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: knows about it.

758
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 2: Zero grass is your entire lawn just or your entire

759
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 2: yard just covered with high end antique screen doors. That's right,

760
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,439
Speaker 2: it's a good look, I'll vet it is. I'll bet

761
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 2: they it's a little wobbly though, right walking around?

762
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: Yeah?

763
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 2: Or are they just for looking?

764
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: No? No, no, you walk on it, okay. So Ellen

765
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: MacArthur's foundation is looking to correct this and making like

766
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: basically investing in the biological cycle of the circular economy,

767
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: like making this a part of it too. And composting

768
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: is an obvious win. But one of the things that

769
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: is pretty amazing is called cascading, that is reusing food

770
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: waste to make other things. And there's a what a

771
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 1: Dutch company called Peel Pioneers because you know in those

772
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: in fruit peels like orange and lemon and stuff like that,

773
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: that's the best stuff is in that peel, the zest

774
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: of those things and the essential oils that you get

775
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,959
Speaker 1: from those peels, like that's the goal man. And people

776
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: are throwing that away or composting it, which is okay.

777
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: But how about taking this essential oils and actually making

778
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 1: other products out of them? And that is what Peel

779
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: Pioneers out of the Netherlands is doing.

780
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's I mean, you can find cascading in

781
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,879
Speaker 2: a lot of different food companies, but that's a great

782
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 2: example because those that orange essential oil is in particular,

783
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 2: are used in a lot of different other products. So

784
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: you can have a pretty successful business just harvesting the

785
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 2: scraps off the floor of an orange juice processor, you know.

786
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, converting stuff to biofuel is another pretty obvious one.

787
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then anaerobic digesters I have. I'm putting a

788
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 2: lot of like hope on anaerobic digesters in the future

789
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 2: where we just figure out the microbes that eat this stuff,

790
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 2: or these microbes eat this kind of plastic, these microbes

791
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 2: eat this kind of oil, and like just unleash them

792
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 2: on all sorts of stuff and then reuse their byproducts

793
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 2: as inputs. I really hope we reach that future. That

794
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 2: to me is like the greenest of green.

795
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've talked about that too. I can't remember what episode.

796
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 2: I can either. We'll we'll have to use that stuff

797
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 2: you should know transcript search tool to find.

798
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like it was like someone was using

799
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: worms to do something than that ring a bell.

800
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 2: It might have been a biofuel app.

801
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe, So we'll look at up. Can we talk

802
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: about fashion?

803
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is just crazy to me. I think we

804
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 2: should do an entire episode on fast fashion, but we

805
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:31,959
Speaker 2: can hit some high points. I think.

806
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, fast fashion is sort of an environmental nightmare and

807
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: a humanitarian nightmare because they're made in sweatshops for very

808
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: little pay by people you know, making very little pay.

809
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 1: They are sold very cheaply. Cheap synthetic materials are used,

810
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,439
Speaker 1: so all the inputs are bad, they don't last long,

811
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: and it's an environmental nightmare. Basically, I think the fashion

812
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: industry is the second largest consumer of water. That has

813
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: to be behind the factory farming, right, Yeah, and it

814
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 1: produces ten percent. The fashion industry produces ten percent of

815
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:10,919
Speaker 1: the global CO two emissions total.

816
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and eighty five percent of all the stuff that

817
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 2: the fashion industry makes ends up in landfills, not recycled landfills.

818
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 2: Eighty five percent of all the clothes made in the

819
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 2: entire world. There's another issue with it too. When you

820
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 2: wash just washing, just using these things, washing them in

821
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:36,280
Speaker 2: your bundles least washing machine, you're releasing microplastics into the ocean.

822
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 2: Because a lot of clothes, even recycled clothes, are made

823
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 2: from plastics or contained plastics and those things get flushed

824
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: out and it's a huge plastic pollution problem too, which

825
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 2: is I mean, it's ironic. Like Patagonia is always hull

826
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 2: up as a great example of a company that tries

827
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 2: to make sustainable circular clothing, and one of the things

828
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 2: that they you is there. I think their line of

829
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 2: responsibility t shirts super cute. They're made from fabric scraps. Cool,

830
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 2: but also plastic bottles also cool because we want to

831
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 2: recycle plastic bottles. But the problem is is that plastic

832
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 2: gets transferred to the ocean. So it's one of those

833
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 2: things where it's like we're so far from figuring the

834
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 2: stuff out that even the people who are trying to

835
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 2: do something are still having inverting effects that you know,

836
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 2: I'm sure keeps them up at night.

837
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And you can also, man, you can

838
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 1: send a ten year old pullover to Patagonia that had

839
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: a collar that ripped or something and they'll fix that

840
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: thing for you, probably for nothing. Yeah, And you can

841
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 1: buy you can send stuff back to them that they

842
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: will resell, and you can buy like, you know, gently

843
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: used things from Patagonia online. They are also working with

844
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: a startup called Infinitive Fiber, And what they're doing is

845
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: they're they're working on the on the waste on the

846
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: front end. It's a process to recycle that textile waste,

847
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: because you know, it's not like, all right, we've got

848
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: this much cotton and every single fiber goes into making

849
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: that T shirt and there's zero waste or that car. Yeah,

850
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: I'm sorry about that that car. There's you know, there's

851
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: gonna be some textile waste on the front end. And

852
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 1: so what they're doing is they're they're taking that stuff

853
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: and they're recycling that textile waste into a new fiber

854
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: called Infina.

855
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that stuff is one hundred percent recyclable. So eventually,

856
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 2: over time, if this loop were allowed to really kind

857
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 2: of take hold, eventually all the cotton would be put

858
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 2: into or transferred into the Infina circle. And since it's

859
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 2: one hundred percent recyclable, you could conceivably never have to

860
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 2: put new cotton in again. Yeah, for sure, I don't

861
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 2: think it's gonna happen anytime soon. I'm just saying conceptually,

862
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 2: that's kind of how this stuff works.

863
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's even compostable.

864
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: It is, so you would have to put some new

865
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: cotton in once in a while, because Gary would go

866
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 2: compost it just to be a jerk, right, But yeah,

867
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 2: for the most part, you could. Once it really kind

868
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 2: of took hold and got going, it could can it

869
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 2: could overtake the existing cotton stocks and make them one

870
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 2: hundred percent recyclable, and then you wouldn't need more cotton stocks,

871
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 2: which is again an issue we'd have to deal with

872
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 2: because then all the cotton farmers are out of.

873
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: Work, that's right, and we have no more new cotton

874
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 1: cars on the road.

875
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,399
Speaker 2: But one other thing that I found that really got

876
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 2: to meet Chuck. I found a stat that said that

877
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,399
Speaker 2: most of the returns, like if you try something on,

878
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: like a clothing, especially if it's mail to you and

879
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 2: you try it on and send it back, right, Yeah,

880
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 2: most of those things are thrown away into land. Yes,

881
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 2: what nine point five billion pounds of just clothing returns

882
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 2: alone were put into landfills in twenty twenty two.

883
00:46:59,040 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: Unconsionable.

884
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and the reason why is because companies are like,

885
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 2: I'm not going to pay somebody to fold this thing

886
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 2: back up, put the pins back in it, put it

887
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: in the plastic, and make it new again. So that

888
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 2: I can sell it. It's cheaper for me to just

889
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 2: throw it away. And there are programs that divert that

890
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 2: stuff to like developing countries so that those clothes are donated.

891
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 2: But I guarantee that's not as cheap for the company

892
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 2: as it is to just throw it away. That's a

893
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 2: huge impact that the fast fashion industry has on the planet.

894
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 2: That's crazy to me.

895
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't been this upset about something I've heard

896
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:38,479
Speaker 1: from you in a long time.

897
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 2: And I say some upsetting stuff. I know you usually

898
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 2: text them to me, but those are upsetting pictures, all right.

899
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: One last thing we can talk about is the right

900
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: to repair movement, which we talked about in the Planned

901
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:55,879
Speaker 1: Obsolescence episode. But you know, it's exactly what you think it's. It's, hey,

902
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: we need to be able to repair our whatever's our

903
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: small appliances. That's a big offender. A lot of companies

904
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: are saying because you know, I don't know if we

905
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: covered this part, but because I don't remember why companies

906
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 1: didn't do it, or at least why they say they

907
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: don't do it. One thing they'll say is like, oh,

908
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: you know what with electronics, if we publish like how

909
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: to other people can fix these things and basically give

910
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: repair companies repair manuals. Like it's it leads people vulnerable

911
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: to hackers that they can get information from that electronic device.

912
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: And I just call foul on that. That sounds like

913
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: a bunch of bs to me.

914
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 2: They're like, don't forget hackers. Hackers are going to get

915
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 2: you more.

916
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you want your whatever your iPhone.

917
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 2: Fixed, right and you can't. I have an Acer Swift

918
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 2: laptop that I love, but it's I've tried to replace

919
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 2: the battery before and it's designed to not replace the battery.

920
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 2: You cannot replace the battery, and obviously the battery is

921
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 2: the first thing that goes out.

922
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: It's infuriating.

923
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 2: It is infuriating because it's like he made it so

924
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 2: that you have to get rid of your laptop and

925
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 2: get another one. It drives me nuts. So if you

926
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 2: put all this together, chuck like electronics companies successfully lobbying

927
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 2: against right to repair laws, companies using planned obsolescens left

928
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: and right, people like Gary just throwing their stuff away

929
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 2: to be jerks like, how can this even be implemented?

930
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,720
Speaker 2: I can't see it happening, at least in the United States.

931
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 2: I know the EU is really taking some strides towards

932
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 2: this stuff, and hats off to them. But in the

933
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 2: United States, I can't in the foreseeable future, like as

934
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 2: far as I can think out, I can't see this

935
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 2: being implemented.

936
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: No, I mean certainly not now with what's going on

937
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 1: in our country, and that I'm not trying to get

938
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: too political, but that's just the fact. It's not a

939
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:03,720
Speaker 1: not only a priority for our current administration to invest

940
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: at all in something like a circular economy, but it's

941
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: not even on the radar, right, or or its outright

942
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 1: being squashed right.

943
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 2: Even more disturbing is that even outside of the United States,

944
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 2: globally speaking, recycling or secondary materials being put back in

945
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 2: as inputs is actually on the decline by significant numbers.

946
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're headed in the wrong direction, right, even though

947
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: Day points out that like social media posts and articles

948
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: about the circular economy are have tripled in the last

949
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 1: five years, so there's more awareness. But we're going in

950
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,720
Speaker 1: the wrong direction as far as actual you know, feed

951
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 1: on the floor kind of stuff.

952
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and consumption keeps growing and growing and growing. Apparently

953
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:49,839
Speaker 2: from twenty eighteen to twenty twenty four, we consumed five

954
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 2: hundred gigatons of material. That's everything raw material, finished material,

955
00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 2: fossil fuels, and that is twenty eight percent of the

956
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 2: total amount we consumed in the last one hundred and

957
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 2: twenty five years. Yeah, so it's just growing exponentially. So yeah,

958
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 2: there's a lot of stuff to overcome. You might say

959
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 2: it would take like an authoritarian government to implement this

960
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 2: kind of thing. And it turns out China has committed

961
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 2: to creating a circular economy for themselves back in the

962
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:26,439
Speaker 2: two thousands, and apparently they're focused right now on automotive

963
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 2: re manufacturing, which is essentially taking old cars and refurbishing

964
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 2: them and their parts, selling them like new at a

965
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 2: discountant price because they're refurbished. Oh okay, so I guess

966
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 2: keep an eye on China and the EU to see

967
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 2: where things go. Chuck laughed a little bit, but his

968
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 2: laugh was dripping with Okay, let's go to a listener mail.

969
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 2: So he just unlocked listener mail.

970
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:52,799
Speaker 1: This is a correction on a correction. So we heard

971
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: from quite a few people about the most famous brand

972
00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: Fortian people wrote in, said Alexander Graham Bell Forget Gretzky

973
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: and Phil Hartman Alexander Grahm Bell was not born in Branford,

974
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: so this is from Joel. Hey, guys, probably not the

975
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: first person to say this, but I'm correcting your email

976
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: correction that claimed Alexander Grambell was born in Branford. He

977
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 1: certainly lived in Branford, so they claim him he was

978
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 1: born in Scotland and move to Branford as a young man.

979
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 1: I guess at one point in his life he would

980
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 1: definitely say he was from Branford, but that's not where

981
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: he's from. Love the show. That is from Joel Dawson.

982
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 2: Very nice. So I guess Phil Hartman moves back up

983
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 2: to number two.

984
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: I guess so. And you know what, whenever someone sends

985
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: in their business or something and it seems pretty cool,

986
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: we like to tout them. Yes, and Joel signed his with

987
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: Free Spirit Tours dot c A. So I'm looking now

988
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: it looks like paddling and stand up paddle boarding, caving,

989
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 1: forest therapy, wine tastings wouldness wellness.

990
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 2: Also, I want to shout out which bolt again? Did

991
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 2: you see which bowl got in touch with this to

992
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 2: say thanks for the mentioned on the Alchemy episode. I

993
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,399
Speaker 2: did not see that they did. He did. I should say.

994
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 2: He got in touch to say, hey, you guys want

995
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 2: some T shirts? Thanks a lot. He's been listening for

996
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,720
Speaker 2: fifteen years. His name is Nick. He's been a listener

997
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 2: for fifteen years. Which Bolt has, Remember the Dungeon synth guy?

998
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

999
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 2: So he wrote in and I was like, I'm actually

1000
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 2: a little starstruck right now. So there's like this big

1001
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 2: circular love fest going on, not a circular economy, but

1002
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 2: a circular love fest going on between Stuff you Should

1003
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 2: Know in Which Bolt right now?

1004
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1005
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 2: All right, Well, if you want to get in touch

1006
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 2: with us, like Joel or which Bolt, you can send

1007
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,280
Speaker 2: us an email too, send it off to stuff podcast

1008
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 2: at iHeartRadio dot com.

1009
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

1010
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1011
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.