1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 3 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 2: name is Robert Lamb. 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick. And today we're going to 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 3: be kicking off a yearly tradition, our coverage of some 6 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 3: of the winners of this year's Ignobel Prizes. 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 2: That's right, We've been doing the Ignobel Prizes on the 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 2: show for many, many years now. We almost never cover 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: them right away. The awards usually drop and I think 10 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 2: this has been the case for like at least a 11 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 2: decade now. They tend to come out during September or 12 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 2: rarely earlier on I think they would come out in October. 13 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 2: But any event, we're often already wrapped up in Halloween 14 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 2: stuff by that point, and we end up coming back 15 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: to the Ignobel Prizes early November. It's kind of like 16 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: a post Halloween detox to get away from a lot 17 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: of the spooky stuff and into some other topic areas. 18 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 2: But this year is a little different. I mean, last 19 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 2: year was a little different because Joe, you're on parental leave, 20 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: so our former producer Seth had to pop in and 21 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: sort through these with me. So this year, we're back, 22 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 2: and we welcome me back. But also this year we're 23 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 2: actually ahead of schedule and hitting the egg Nobels before October. 24 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 3: Feels good to be prompt. 25 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 2: If you're not familiar with the ig Nobels, these are 26 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 2: a series of awards given out once a year by 27 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 2: the scientific humor journal the Annals of Improbable Research, edited 28 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 2: for many years now by Mark Abrahams. This this, of course, 29 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: is a play on the the the on the Nobel Prize. 30 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: You know the Nobel Prize in various areas physics, chemistry, 31 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 2: et cetera, And there's a similar organizational structure in place 32 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: for the ig Nobel Prizes. Their stated purpose is, quote, 33 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 2: do honor achievements that first make people laugh and then 34 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 2: make them think. If you want to learn more about them, 35 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: go to Improbable dot com. You can find out more 36 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 2: about the magazine. You can see they have a wonderful 37 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: list of all the winners going back to the very 38 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 2: beginning of the whole project. 39 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 3: Yes, now, usually the prizes are given out in honor 40 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 3: of studies that are published in regular scientific journals but 41 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 3: just might have to do with some intentionally or unintentionally 42 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 3: funny subject matter. But occasionally it also focuses on papers 43 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 3: that are themselves like intended to be funny or satirical. 44 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 3: One example that comes to mind is a study, a 45 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 3: quote study from several years back that was about the 46 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 3: raiology of cats. Raology being the study of how materials flow, 47 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 3: and so the idea is like, you know, our cat's 48 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 3: a liquid or a solid, So you know, that is 49 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 3: a joke, but also there was some interesting stuff to 50 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 3: ponder in that paper, and the the pattern continues. Most 51 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 3: of this year's winners are regular scientific studies published in 52 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 3: academic journals, but the for example, my selection for today 53 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 3: is more of a historical interest paper that leans on 54 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 3: a subject that was I think intended to be selected 55 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 3: because it was funny. 56 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I think the important thing to keep 57 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: in mind is that, yeah, at the heart of all 58 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 2: of these there is some genuine science or a quest 59 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 2: for knowledge, some some seriousness. It's not all just complete tomfoolery. 60 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: And I think that's ultimately what they're celebrating here. That's 61 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: one of the reasons we keep covering it is that 62 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: with each entry, you know, we often ask the question, well, 63 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 2: what makes this funny? Any kind of point to the obvious, 64 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: you know, it maybe say a study that has to 65 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: do with, say, you know, flatulence or something, and it's 66 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 2: pretty obvious why that's funny. But then there is also 67 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 2: the follow up question why is it important? And in 68 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 2: all cases there's something there, there's some way to answer that, 69 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 2: like it's the study involved. You know, it may seem like, 70 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: you know, it's the pure shrimp on a treadmill territory, 71 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: where like this is how does this possibly benefit anything? 72 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: But it is benefiting our scientific understanding of ourselves or 73 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: the world to some extent. And I always say, the 74 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 2: other cool thing about it is that, yeah, I mean, 75 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 2: it inevitably draws attention to some of these smaller studies 76 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 2: and the work of professional researchers and scientists. So it's 77 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 2: all good. 78 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 3: Now, Rob, If you're ready to get into the actual 79 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 3: winners we're going to talk about today, I think maybe 80 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 3: a good place to start would be on the maybe 81 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 3: the halloweenist of all the Ignobel Prize winners I can recall. 82 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 2: That's right, we're talking about the Mechanical Engineering Prize that 83 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: goes to a paper that deals with necrobotics, which, if 84 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 2: you're not already familiar with the term, yes, it does 85 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: sound like it could be made up by some sort 86 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: of a nineteen eighties science fiction film or earlier that 87 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: we were watching on weird house cinema, But no, this 88 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 2: is an actual term. Will explain what it means here. 89 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 3: Shortly, it sounds like like a Stuart Gordon movie. 90 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. So the paper in question is Necrobotics Biotic Materials 91 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: as Ready to Use Actuators by yap at All, published 92 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,119 Speaker 2: in Advanced Science volume nine, number twenty nine from twenty 93 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: twenty two. So the entire premise of this study is 94 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: at once completely sensible and also morbidly sensational, and I 95 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: think that's one of the reasons it really zings. So 96 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 2: the author's touch on biomemicry, which as you probably know, 97 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: refers to the idea of turning to nature to help 98 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 2: solve engineering problems, because why spend a few years trying 99 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 2: to solve a problem that nature already solved over the 100 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 2: course of evolutionary time. 101 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 3: Now, of course, some solutions that are engineered by evolution 102 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 3: are easier to reproduce or reverse engineer and reproduce in 103 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 3: inanimate technology than others are. For example, we still can't 104 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 3: really like recreate what's happening in a human brain. That 105 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 3: is a very complex bioengineering problem that we have not 106 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 3: fully reverse engineered yet. But there are lots of other 107 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 3: sort of simpler biological mechanisms that we have been able 108 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 3: to look at and say, ah, okay, yeah, here's how 109 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 3: that works, and we could actually we could make technology 110 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 3: that does the same thing. 111 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 2: But the authors here point out, yeah, you know, this 112 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: is all well and good, but why don't you You 113 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: don't have to just stop at merely copying the design. 114 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 2: We can actually reuse parts and materials, and this is 115 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 2: where we get specifically into the idea of a biohybrid robot, 116 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 2: something that quote goes a step further by incorporating living 117 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: materials directly into engineered systems, so a kind of cybernetic approach. Really. Now, 118 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 2: it's my understanding that biohybrids in general covers a lot 119 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: of things that are maybe less necro in flavor, such 120 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 2: as biohybrid materials that contain both a biopolymer and a 121 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 2: synthetic polymer. But that's just one route. As for biohybrid robots, 122 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 2: you can, yeah, you can think of him in general 123 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: as somewhere on the same slider with the concept of 124 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: a cyborg, except more of a robot that's made with 125 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 2: some organic materials or parts. 126 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 3: Tired donating your body to scientific research, wired donating your 127 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 3: body to a robot's body. 128 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, in a way, I think one of our classic 129 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 2: cinematic examples of a cyborg can be very can throw 130 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 2: off our understanding of what these things can consist of, 131 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: because you think of the Terminator, right, he's essentially a robot. 132 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 2: He's just a robot, but he has this living tissue 133 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 2: on top of all of that as a disguise. But 134 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 2: he can completely lose that and he's still very functional. 135 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: As we've discussed on the show before, the topic of 136 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: cybernetics is a little more complicated than that and involves 137 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 2: a lot more. But in this particular case, this idea 138 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 2: of the biohybrid robot, it's you know, imagine that it's 139 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 2: not so much the robot is covered in the skin, 140 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 2: but the robot then actually uses human skin in various places, 141 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 2: is to help move better, to perform its functionality better, 142 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: et cetera. 143 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 3: So they say in the movie Terminator that the living 144 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 3: tissue on the outside of the T eight hundred is 145 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 3: grown for the cyborgs in labs they have. But imagine 146 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 3: instead that maybe, say, when the Terminator gets injured, it 147 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 3: can like harvest the flesh of its enemies in order 148 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 3: to graft onto its own skin and become part of 149 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 3: its living encasement. 150 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: There you go, it's the Terminator remake right there. You 151 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 2: can thank Joe McCormick for that. 152 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 3: But repurposing the dead flesh of living organisms for itself. 153 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 2: I like it. I think it could work. But a 154 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: couple of real world examples of this, at least in 155 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: you know, you know, ideas that have been explored in 156 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: various studies and projects. There is a twenty eighteen University 157 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 2: of Tokyo project that created a robotic finger using rat 158 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: muscle cells. There was also a twenty twelve Harvard Caltech 159 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 2: project that produced a silicone jellyfish, so kind of like 160 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: a jellyfish robot using rat heart muscle cells. And then 161 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: they later worked in a kind of like swimming ray 162 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 2: using some of the same technology. 163 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 3: Now, less people start getting weirded out at the idea 164 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 3: of using animal body parts as technology, it might be 165 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 3: worth pointing out that I think really the only novel 166 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 3: part here is that it is using independently moving body parts. 167 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean they stress here in a way 168 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 2: that I found kind of comedic. I laughed a little 169 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 2: bit at this, but also it's a totally valid point. 170 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 2: They point out that, like, look, humans have long used 171 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 2: bioderved materials in their tool use. I mean that's the 172 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: basic two thousand and one A Space Odyssey model, right, 173 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: you know, you pick up the bone and you use it. 174 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 2: We've talked about this numerous times in the show in 175 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 2: the past, using bits and pieces of animals, using all 176 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 2: of the buffalo in some cases, to create various bits 177 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 2: of human ingenuity, various tools, materials, clothing, etc. 178 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 3: Animal hides, Yeah, are a huge part of human technology. 179 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. So there's nothing particularly weird about this. I guess 180 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 2: it just kind of runs counter to what some people 181 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 2: might think about as the trajectory of human materials and 182 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 2: human inventions, that as they get more futuristic, they move 183 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 2: further and further away from this idea of something that 184 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 2: we've made from the natural world and it becomes just 185 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 2: completely synthetic, you know, matching up with these various sci 186 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 2: fi visions. Where As on that SpongeBob app episode, everything 187 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 2: is chrome, you know, everything is metallic, et cetera. This 188 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: seems to run counter to that, and in some ways 189 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 2: because they're asking you to imagine a robot that reaches 190 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 2: out to you, not with a metal hand or even 191 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 2: a metal hand that is covered with like some sort 192 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 2: of plastic substance that is like a that is kind 193 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 2: of like human skin. No, it is reaching out to 194 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 2: touch you with a hand that is a dead tarantula. 195 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 3: It's funny that you mentioned the plastic hand though, because 196 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 3: if it were a metal hand, you could say, Okay, 197 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 3: that's never been alive. That was always just you know, 198 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 3: mineral content in the ground that was mined. But if 199 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 3: it's a plastic hand that's derived from petroleum products, which 200 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 3: are derived from at some point life. 201 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 2: That's true and that it's interesting how we have kind 202 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: of a mental disconnect on that a lot of the time. 203 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 2: Maybe part of it is, you know, being in denial 204 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 2: of our fossil fuel dependency to some extent, But the 205 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 2: other part is like, yeah, I mean, plastic is that 206 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 2: was made by magic, that was made by human wit 207 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 2: and ingenuity. It has no connection to the natural world. 208 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, That plastic is the refined and reprocessed remains 209 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 3: of organisms. That lived millions of years ago. 210 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 2: But the idea of the tarantula hand here is actually 211 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 2: key to the study. I'm exaggerating a little bit by 212 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 2: making it to a tarantula and making it a robot 213 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 2: reaching for you. But the whole paper here is about 214 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 2: the idea of repurposing a dead spider as a quote 215 00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 2: unquote ready to use actuator. And they highlight that there's 216 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: actually fewer steps involved, like this is a shortcut. This 217 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 2: is not like that. This is not something where you'd 218 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 2: be doing it and you'd be overworking for just some 219 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 2: sort of grotesque mechanism. No, they're saying, like you actually 220 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 2: would have to do less to take advantage of this 221 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 2: fewer steps in the production. I love this, They write, 222 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: quote The unique walking mechanism of spiders relying on hydraulic 223 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 2: pressure rather than antagonistic muscle pairs to extend their legs 224 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 2: results in a necrobotic gripper that naturally resides in its 225 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 2: closed state and can be opened by applying pressure. The 226 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 2: necrobodic gripper is capable of grasping objects with irregular geometries 227 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 2: and up to one hundred and thirty percent of its 228 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 2: own mass Furthermore, the gripper can serve as a handheld 229 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 2: device and innately camouflages in outdoor environments. Okay, the last sense, 230 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 2: I don't know why that part is important. Do we 231 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 2: need a stealth hand that grab things one hundred and 232 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: thirty percent of its own mass? I don't know, but 233 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 2: it does give us more horror movie ideas, I suppose. 234 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, that one seems a little bit. I don't know, 235 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 3: but I never thought about this before. But yeah, So 236 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 3: they're talking about how the idea that like, when a 237 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 3: spider closes its legs, it's operating on a different mechanism 238 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 3: than how say, mammals would move their limbs. Mammals, as 239 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 3: it says, move their limbs with antagonistic muscle pairs, so 240 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 3: you know, muscles contracting or relaxing in order to bend 241 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 3: the skeleton of the joints, whereas with spiders it has 242 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 3: to do with an internal hydraulic pressure state to cause 243 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 3: the legs to extend. And so when the pressure is 244 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 3: relaxed that is when the legs close, which I guess 245 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 3: makes sense because when you see a dead spider, it 246 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 3: tends to have its legs curled up exactly. 247 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 2: They point that out. Yeah, when a spider dies, the 248 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 2: pressure is no longer opposing the flex or muscles, and 249 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 2: so you get that curled up appearance. This is exactly 250 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 2: how you find them if you start busting open dirt 251 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 2: dobber nests and you find them scrolled away in there 252 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: to feed the growing young. But they do point out 253 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 2: by the way, that we don't need to stop at spiders. 254 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: All manner of bioderived parts could be repurposed in an 255 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 2: engineered system. And again, there's nothing creepy about a spider 256 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: handed necrobot at all, so we shouldn't, you know, act 257 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 2: like it is. But I included images, and I imagine 258 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 2: these images can be I think the paper itself is 259 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 2: not behind a paywall or anything, so folks can pull 260 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 2: this up. You can find a link on the eight 261 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 2: Nobel Prizes website, but they show exactly the steps that 262 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 2: are involved, and it involves first of all, euthanizing the 263 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 2: spider and then a fabrication, a step that requires just 264 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 2: one thing to be done, and that's quote, inserting a 265 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 2: needle into the prosoma region of a deceased spider and 266 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 2: fixing the needle to the spider's body. With glue to 267 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: form a hermatic seal. 268 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 3: This is still not creepy, folks, Stop stop acting like yeah. 269 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 2: So the legs grip inward and then pressure is applied 270 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 2: via the syringe that you just glued to the dead 271 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 2: spider to extend the legs and open the gripper and 272 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 2: then there you see the step. See the third step 273 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 2: in the illustration is just using the necrobotic gripper the 274 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 2: syringe powered effect here to open and close the spider 275 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 2: as if it were a claw. 276 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 3: This is truly one of my favorite Ignobel studies we 277 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 3: have done. 278 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this one's amazing and it opens my 279 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 2: mind to this whole world that I had no idea 280 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 2: was really on the menu for the future, but there 281 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 2: it is. So why is it funny? I think it's 282 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 2: obvious that you know, the dead spider is now a 283 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 2: robot hand. A dead spider has been used well, first 284 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: of all, created, they did euthanize it, but then made 285 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 2: into this gripper device. That alone is just inherently morbidly funny. 286 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 3: Now, if you wanted to have a cruelty free dead 287 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 3: spider robot hand, presumably you could bust up mud Wasp 288 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 3: nests and find all the dead spiders inside, you know, 289 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 3: get them out, and then stab needles in them and 290 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 3: glue those needles in place, and then use the hydraulic 291 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 3: pressure to make your little robot hands. 292 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. I like that idea. I certainly don't want to 293 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 2: encourage anyone to hurt and kill spiders without real need to. Here, 294 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 2: I do wonder. I don't think they got into this 295 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 2: in the article. Maybe they did and I missed it, 296 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 2: But I wonder if there might be a risk in 297 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 2: using an already dead spider in that the organic materials 298 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 2: might have decomposed to some degree and you wouldn't get 299 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 2: the same grip. 300 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 3: Now then again, way, so I was joking anyway, But 301 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 3: now that I think about it, the spiders in the 302 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 3: in the wasp nest, are those technically going to be dead? 303 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 3: Or are they paralyzed and still alive in order to 304 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 3: preserve them longer so they can be food for the young. 305 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 2: I don't remember off the top of my head. I 306 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 2: know it varies with different parasitic wasps exactly how they 307 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 2: carry out the deed. Sometimes, you know, there's a laying 308 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 2: of eggs on the hosts. Sometimes they are inserted within 309 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 2: it varies from species to species, and you know, depending 310 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 2: on what their their host organism happens to be. It 311 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 2: might also depend with the dirt dobber ness when you're 312 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 2: catching them. But you know, if you want a pristine 313 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 2: spider necro gripper, I think you do have to make 314 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 2: the dead spider yourself. You have to make it dead yourself. Now, 315 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 2: why is it important this study? Well, you know again, 316 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 2: I think the idea of you know, of just necrobotics 317 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 2: in general, it's it's nothing to scoff at. You know, 318 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 2: we might consider a kind of post synthetic or beyond 319 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 2: that synthetic material science of the future. You know, well, 320 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 2: machines of the future will continue to have synthetic parts. 321 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 2: What if biotic and even repurpose tissues play on an 322 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 2: important role in at least key parts of the design, 323 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 2: particularly where you need some sort of like, you know, 324 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 2: a mechanical interact to take place, and you could either, 325 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 2: you know, you could fine tune some sort of artificial 326 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 2: system and gears and three D printed pieces, or you 327 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 2: could turn to pre existing structures and materials, be it 328 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 2: the muscles of a rat's heart or the you know, 329 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 2: the fantastic limbs of a spider. 330 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 3: Shake hands with spider. 331 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. I do love this idea of the tarantula hand spider. Yeah. 332 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 2: It makes me think of the like tarantula up hand 333 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 2: puppets that you sometimes see. And it's one of these 334 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 2: things too that if we saw this in a movie 335 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 2: from the sixties, we would say this is ridiculous. This 336 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 2: is like robot Monster. They clearly just had a robot 337 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 2: costume and two of these spider hand puppets and they 338 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 2: just made it all up. But no, they actually had 339 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 2: had glimpsed the future had they made this movie. 340 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 3: All Right, you ready for the next prize? 341 00:18:58,520 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 2: Yeah? What do you have for us here? 342 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 3: Okay? So the twenty twenty three Chemistry and Geology Prize 343 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 3: was awarded for a twenty seventeen article called Eating Fossils, 344 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 3: written for the newsletter of the Paleontological Association, a UK 345 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 3: based group that promotes the study of paleontology and publishes 346 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 3: multiple academic journals, and the author is Yan Zawichevich, a 347 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 3: geologist and stratigrapher who is an emeritus professor of paleobiology 348 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 3: at the University of Lester in the UK. And a 349 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 3: note so I said he's a geologist and a stratigrapher. 350 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 3: Stratigraphy is the subdiscipline of geology that's focused on understanding 351 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 3: geological strata, meaning the layers of rock in Earth's crust, 352 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 3: how they form, how they're ordered and structured, and so forth. 353 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 3: It's also worth flagging, as I mentioned earlier, that usually 354 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 3: the winners of the Ignobel Prizes are studies published in 355 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 3: scientific journals. This is not one of those. This is 356 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 3: instead a sort of historical interest feature about, as the 357 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 3: title says, eating fossils and congrats to Zowachevitch. Because I 358 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 3: loved this article, so I'm going to start just by 359 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 3: reading the opening passage. The rock lying by the roadside 360 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 3: did not look like much of interest at first, a 361 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 3: rather nondescript limestone with little more to show to casual 362 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 3: observation than a few vague blotches. Anyway, old habits die hard, 363 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 3: so I picked it up, licked the surface, and put 364 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 3: it and my hand lens to my eye. Now, okay, 365 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 3: so half of that picture makes sense to a non expert. 366 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 3: As a non geologist, I might expect a geologist to 367 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 3: pick up a rock and use a magnifying lens to 368 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 3: look at it. But licking the rock is that part 369 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 3: of the standard geology modus operandi. 370 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd never heard of this before. 371 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 3: It seems to some extent. Yes, yes, as Zawachevitch says, 372 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 3: licking the rock, of course, is part of the geologist 373 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 3: and paleontologists armory of tried and much tested techniques used 374 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 3: to help survive in the field. Wetting the surface allows 375 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 3: fossil and mineral textures to stand out sharply, rather than 376 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,719 Speaker 3: being lost in the blur of intersecting micro reflections and 377 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 3: micro refractions that come out of a dry surface. And 378 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 3: I thought about that for a second. I said, oh, 379 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 3: that is really interesting. I think many of us will 380 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,360 Speaker 3: have noticed that a wet rock looks very different than 381 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 3: a dry rock. A wet rock has you can see 382 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 3: some of the textures and the grain more sharply. Some 383 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 3: of the structure of the mineral is revealed. And of course, 384 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 3: if you know, don't have like a I don't know, 385 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 3: like a bucket of water with you, you of course 386 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 3: have some water in your mouth, you can lick the 387 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 3: rock or spit on it, put some sali on it, 388 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 3: and see that grain and structure with more clarity. 389 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I guess it allows you to put a 390 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 2: very control amount of moisture on the rock as well. 391 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 2: Whereas you're pouring a little water from your canteen, you're 392 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 2: gonna waste more of your water and so forth. 393 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 3: And Zawachevich says that it just so happened on this 394 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 3: day with this rock is big old slabbery tongue helped 395 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 3: reveal something amazing. The rock he found contained the most 396 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 3: remarkably preserved numbulites, which are fossil remnants of a variety 397 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 3: of four amniferin And I'll have more to say about 398 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 3: these organisms in a bit, but in this particular fossil, 399 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 3: these ancient organisms, their shells were preserved with three dimensional structure, intact, 400 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 3: all bound together in a chunk of calcite. So, having 401 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 3: established that the main purpose of licking the rock is 402 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 3: to be able to see it better, you still might 403 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 3: be wondering what does a collection of fossilized for aminifera taste, 404 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 3: like Zawachevich writes, quote, the taste now was likely merely 405 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 3: registered as generically slightly dusty and then instantly forgotten. I 406 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 3: had always thought it entirely superfluous to identification, but perhaps 407 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 3: not so as we contemporary types develop capabilities in one direction, 408 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 3: we might be entirely losing them in another. Go right 409 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 3: back to the beginnings of our science, and our ancestors 410 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 3: and their senses were attuned to different settings. One could, then, 411 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 3: it seems, literally develop a taste for stratigraphy. 412 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 2: Oh wow. 413 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 3: So Zawachevich goes on to talk about an important figure 414 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 3: in the history of his field, a man he calls 415 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 3: this ancestral stratigrapher, the Italian geologist Giovanni Arduino, who lived 416 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 3: seventeen fourteen to seventeen ninety five, who notably came up 417 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 3: with the idea of a geological division of Earth's history 418 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 3: into different periods that would correlate with strata in the crust. 419 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 3: These periods he called the primary, secondary, tertiary, and quaternary, 420 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 3: and these categories have been majorly revised and refined by 421 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 3: modern geologists, but the basic principle still sticks that you 422 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 3: can identify sedimentary rock layers and correlate them with different 423 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 3: historical periods in which they were laid down. So Sawichewitch 424 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 3: describes Arduino as quote a busy man who had to 425 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 3: be everywhere at once. This guy apparently worked as a 426 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 3: mining engineer and as a surveyor, but was also just 427 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 3: an all purpose freak for rocks and fossils. He ravenously 428 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 3: collected and studied them from all over the northeast of Italy, 429 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 3: from the Alps down to the Po River delta around Venice. 430 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 3: And he called himself a mineralogist, meaning he was into 431 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 3: all different types. He was into fossils, sediments, springs and 432 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 3: all that stuff, everything about the earth. Now, the interesting 433 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 3: thing is that despite his importance in the history of 434 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 3: this branch of geology, Arduino was in some sense an amateur, 435 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 3: and he did not publish his theories in books. Instead, 436 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 3: they appeared in letters that he sent to a friend 437 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 3: of his who was a professor at the University of Padua, 438 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 3: who in turn published Ardueno's letters in a Venetian journal, 439 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 3: which then filtered out to other scholars who took the 440 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 3: ideas and refined them further, and they ended up morphing 441 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 3: into the ideas we have today in stratigraphy. But here's 442 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 3: where we get back to the flavor of rocks and fossils. 443 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 3: Zawachevich describes these letters that Arduino wrote to his friend 444 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 3: the Professor, which were only translated into English and published 445 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 3: in full the year before this article, So I guess 446 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 3: that would have been twenty sixteen. And Zawachevich says that 447 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 3: these are fun reading, full of enthusiastic conversational style, and 448 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 3: also just full of gushing about crushing. And all of 449 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 3: Arduino's crushes are rocks and minerals and mineral springs awesome. 450 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 3: So I want to read a passage here where Sawichevich 451 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 3: is setting up and quoting sections of these letters. So 452 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 3: this is Sawaichevitch writing it first. Quote Fossil shells in 453 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 3: a mud rock, for instance, and coal fragments, when burned, 454 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 3: leave an ash that quote. As soon as it is 455 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 3: placed on the tongue, it burns like fire and leaves 456 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 3: a flavor equally bitter and urinous. When spat out, it 457 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 3: leaves a certain sweetness and a skinned tongue. Springs that 458 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 3: emerge from a stratum full of marquesite and coal quote 459 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,719 Speaker 3: have an acid, spicy flavor. Vitriolic, yes, but with a 460 00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 3: certain pleasantness that I cannot describe, like the acidity of wine. 461 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 3: These waters quote made me far less nauseous than did 462 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 3: the waters from the same source that I have tasted 463 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 3: here in Vincenza and at the skio. The white and 464 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 3: micacious sediment from one stratum has no taste in the 465 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 3: raw state, he said, but one's burnt quote acquired a 466 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 3: flavor as well as a caustic quality from the calcining 467 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 3: of the spar This man loved rocks. He loved to 468 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 3: collect them. He wanted to understand them, and he wanted 469 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 3: to know which ones tasted like pea, and which ones 470 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 3: were spicy, and which ones tasted like a fine montepulciano. 471 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 2: Wow. 472 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 3: And Zawachevich says that Arduino also described in exquisite detail 473 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 3: the appearance and smell of mineral specimens as they were burned, dissolved, boiled, 474 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 3: and so forth. And he says that Arduino was doing 475 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 3: something that partially kind of feels like alchemy and partially 476 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 3: just kind of feels like rapturous sensual pleasure at the 477 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 3: experience of rocks, but then in part is also very 478 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 3: detailed scientific analysis. You know, he's making an interesting point 479 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 3: that without the modern equipment that we use for chemical 480 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 3: analysis of minerals, information about taste and smell was actually 481 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,719 Speaker 3: very useful data to log which would maybe help us 482 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 3: better understand what these minerals were. In a way, the 483 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 3: tongue could be seen as like the chemistry lab of 484 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 3: the body. I think you could argue that it exists 485 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 3: primarily to do fast chemical analysis on anything that is 486 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 3: about to enter the digestive tract. And this would be 487 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 3: both for screening purposes, so to reject chemicals that could 488 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 3: hurt us, but also for conditioning purposes to cause immediate 489 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 3: pleasure when we're eating something nutritionally desirable, to sort of 490 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 3: condition our brains to repeat the behavior that got that 491 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 3: substance into the mouth. 492 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,479 Speaker 2: This is Yeah, this is all a great point because 493 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 2: I think it's very easy for human beings to think 494 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 2: of like, you know, we're very visual. It's easy to 495 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 2: sort of cut out all the other senses and only 496 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 2: focus on the visual and then the intellectual and of course, 497 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 2: you know, intellectual information that's been recorded and so forth, 498 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 2: and forget that. Yeah, we do have sensory awareness in 499 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 2: these other realms as well, and those senses can be 500 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 2: used to understand and catalog the world. It reminds me 501 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 2: a bit of I think we talked about this in 502 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 2: the past when we were talking about mushroom foraging that 503 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 2: experienced foragers, and I want to underline that experienced foragers 504 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 2: will sometimes taste but not consume taste and then spit 505 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 2: out portions of fung guy that they're in the process 506 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 2: of identifying, and they'll utilize that additional sense data into 507 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 2: their identification process. Again, experts not eating the mushrooms. Don't 508 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 2: attempt this if you if you were not an expert, 509 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 2: don't eat any mushrooms because you listen to this podcast, 510 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 2: et cetera. All the standard disclaimers, but examples of you 511 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 2: know this sort of you know older way of using 512 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 2: all the senses to try and understand bits of the 513 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 2: natural world. 514 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a great point and a great 515 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,239 Speaker 3: point of comparison. Likewise, I would say the same thing 516 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 3: for minerals. Don't just go tasting rocks and sediment and minerals. 517 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 3: You know, you don't know what you're putting in your mouth, 518 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 3: and it could very well be dangerous. But given those 519 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 3: caveats about safety, especially if you don't have to do 520 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 3: this to the eighteenth century mineralogist trying to understand the 521 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 3: mineral world with a comparatively limited toolkit, tasting sediment and 522 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 3: rocks and fossils and spring water makes a lot of sense. 523 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 3: Those flavors are potentially useful information. Yeah, all right, So 524 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 3: that's the first subsection of Zavachevic's essay here about eating fossils, 525 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 3: but there are more. He next goes on to talk 526 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 3: about the story of the nineteen fifty one Explorers Club 527 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 3: dinner at the Roosevelt Hotel in New York, which famously, 528 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 3: or maybe better to say, infamously, served attendees a meat 529 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 3: dish that the host of the event originally claimed was 530 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 3: the meat of Megatherium, an extinct genus of giant groundsloth. 531 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 3: The later reports in the media, I think specifically in 532 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 3: the Christian Science Monitor, claimed that the meat had actually 533 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 3: been from a wooly mammoth. In both cases these animals, 534 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 3: the animals in question were long extinct. So the story 535 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 3: went that the meat served at this dinner had been excavated, 536 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 3: frozen from a site at the Aleutian Islands, and held 537 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 3: in stock by a man named Father Bernard Hubbard, popularly 538 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 3: known in the media as the Glacier Priest. This sounds 539 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 3: more and more like a D and D scenario to us. 540 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 2: Yes, the glaciers now request that you consume the precious 541 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 2: fossil meat. Go ahead and give us a constitution check 542 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:07,959 Speaker 2: on all that. 543 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, better have only the fighter eat at first. 544 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, even the wooly mammoth meat. Though this is 545 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,959 Speaker 2: of course, you know, we do know that that organic 546 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 2: material from wooly mammoths have been preserved in like, you know, 547 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 2: snow and frozen environments. Is this real? Did they really 548 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 2: eat frozen wooly mammoth? 549 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 3: Well that's what the report said originally, But in twenty 550 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 3: fourteen this story was finally proven to be a hoax 551 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 3: because apparently one member of the Explorers Club who had 552 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 3: been unable to attend the dinner in nineteen fifty one, 553 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 3: somehow got his portion of the dish to go. I 554 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 3: guess they gave to go contain. I don't know how 555 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 3: he got it, but he never ate it, and somehow 556 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 3: his portion of this meat dish ended up at the 557 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 3: Yale Peabody Museum of Natural History, preserved somehow. I don't 558 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 3: know if they packed it in formaldehyde or whatever, but 559 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 3: they somehow preserved it and had it there at the museum. 560 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 2: It wasn't just in the fridge the whole time. 561 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 3: I hope not yeah, Gary's leftovers. Yeah. In twenty fourteen, 562 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 3: testing of the sample revealed, despite the fact that the 563 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 3: meat had been cooked more than sixty years before, that 564 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 3: it was not mammoth and it was not sloth. But 565 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 3: it was actually do you want to take a guess? 566 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 2: Oh, I mean you're attempted to guess something close to 567 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 2: a wooly mammoth like an elephant. 568 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 3: Right, it was actually turtle meat. So I went and 569 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 3: looked up at zawachevitch doesn't include it. But I had 570 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 3: to know more, so I went and looked up the 571 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 3: paper in question here. This was a paper published in 572 00:33:54,920 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 3: Plus one in twenty sixteen by Jessica R. Glass, Matt Davis, 573 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 3: Timothy Walsh, Eric Sargius, and Adelgisa Checone. Title of the 574 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 3: paper was Frozen mammoth or Giant ground sloth served for 575 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 3: dinner at the Explorers Club. This was the year twenty sixteen. 576 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 3: Just to note that it is apparently more difficult to 577 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 3: do DNA testing on older remains, and also more difficult 578 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 3: to do DNA testing on meat that has been cooked, 579 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 3: but they did succeed at testing it. This is from 580 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 3: their abstract quote. We sequenced a fragment of the mitochondrial 581 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 3: cytochrome B gene and studied archival material to verify its identity, which, 582 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 3: if genuine, would extend the range of megatherium over six 583 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 3: hundred percent because if it actually came from the Aleutian 584 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 3: Islands or from the Glacier, priest no idea that giant 585 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 3: ground sloths were living there at any point. But anyway, 586 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 3: they say, if it actually was genuine, it would extend 587 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 3: the range of megatherium over six hundred percent quote and 588 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 3: alter our views on groundsloth evolution. Our results indicate that 589 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 3: the meat was not mammoth or megatherium, but green sea 590 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 3: turtle Chelonia midas. The prehistoric dinner was likely an elaborate 591 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 3: publicity stunt, now specifically the green sea turtle. This is sad. 592 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 3: I should add that this animal is considered endangered today. 593 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 3: I don't know what its status was in nineteen fifty one. 594 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 3: But I'm so confused because if you're doing a hoax, 595 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 3: why would you try to pass off sea turtle as 596 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 3: extinct giant groundsloth meat? Why not just to use like 597 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 3: beef for goat or something. 598 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 2: M I guess I guess you could argue that you 599 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,280 Speaker 2: would want to serve something that is edible, of course, 600 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 2: but also case different like that people are going to 601 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 2: try it and they're not going to say, oh, this 602 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,479 Speaker 2: tastes just like beef, or this tastes just like chicken. 603 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 2: They're gonna be like, what, this is a little different. 604 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 2: This is strange. And it makes sense that it's strange 605 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 2: because I'm eating a creature that has been extinct for 606 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 2: so long. That being said, it seems like, are there 607 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 2: not multiple culinary methods you could use to sort of 608 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 2: weirden up your meat and make it taste strange, like 609 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 2: different marinades and so forth. 610 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 3: Probably, I mean they could be people could be like, huh, 611 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 3: this tastes a lot like goat, but that wouldn't prove 612 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,439 Speaker 3: that it was goat. You could still continue your home. 613 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,280 Speaker 3: Maybe it's just that, yeah, mammoth meat tastes like goat. 614 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 2: This makes me think of the whole situation of mock 615 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 2: turtle and like trying to then replicate turtle meat by 616 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,240 Speaker 2: turning to other animals, Like why is the turtle wrapped 617 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 2: up in this weird cycle of imitation meats? 618 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 3: Yeah? Okay, so there's another example of people claiming that 619 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 3: they were eating the meat of a quarter million year 620 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 3: old organism, but in fact it was just a It 621 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 3: was just a sea turtle for some reason. But finally, 622 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 3: in this essay, Zawychevic comes back around to the subject 623 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 3: of numulites mentioned earlier, because those were the remarkably preserved 624 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 3: three dimensional fossils in that rock that he told the 625 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 3: story about finding on the side of the road and 626 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 3: licking to see better. Numbulites are fascinating in their own right. 627 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 3: So numulites are a genus of for iminifer dating back 628 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:32,240 Speaker 3: millions of years, notable for their disc shaped or lins 629 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 3: shaped shells, which are found abundantly in fossil form. The 630 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 3: organisms themselves are single celled protozoa and they form this 631 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:47,800 Speaker 3: protective shell on the outside called a test. These tests 632 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 3: or shells have been observed since ancient times. In fact, 633 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:57,280 Speaker 3: what's called numulitic limestone, which is that's sedimentary calcium carbonate 634 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 3: rock from archaic seafloors, contain huge proportions of numulite fossils. 635 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 3: Numbulytic limestone was what was quarried out by the ancient 636 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 3: Egyptians and used to build the Pyramids of Giza. So 637 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 3: the pyramids are made at least in part out of 638 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 3: fossil rock containing the shells of all these organisms. And 639 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 3: these disc shaped fossils in the pyramid blocks were noticed 640 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 3: by the ancients, people didn't necessarily understand that they were 641 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 3: fossilized shells of you know, trillions of single salt marine organisms. 642 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 3: I've read elsewhere that in the fifth century BCE, the 643 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 3: Greek historian Herodotus thought that these discs were lentils that 644 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 3: had turned to stone. So maybe like, ooh, the people 645 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,360 Speaker 3: who built the pyramids so long ago, they spilled some 646 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,799 Speaker 3: lentils all over the place while they were building them, 647 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 3: and now these lentils turned into rocks. But in fact 648 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 3: they are these protozoan shells, and these shells can grow 649 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:02,720 Speaker 3: to enormous sizes in some cases for some species, especially 650 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 3: for a single celled organism. Zawichevich mentions that I guess 651 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,360 Speaker 3: this would be the species. I don't know how to 652 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 3: say this quite I think Numulitis milika put which means 653 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 3: the thousand head nomulite. This can grow a shell sixteen 654 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 3: centimeters in diameter. That's for a single celled organism. Wow, 655 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 3: and these really these tough outer shells, and the size 656 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 3: of these organisms raise questions about like what in the 657 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 3: ocean could actually successfully eat them, and this leads down 658 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 3: another road where where Zawichevich ends up talking about a 659 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 3: deliciously weird obsolete thesis from a nineteenth to twentieth century 660 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 3: British zoologist named Randolph Randolph Kirkpatrick who worked at the 661 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 3: British Natural History Museum from eighteen eighty six to nineteen 662 00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 3: twenty seven, and in nineteen twelve Kirkpatrick published a book 663 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 3: that was called the Numbulosphere, An Account of the Organic 664 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 3: Origin of so called igneous rocks and abyssle red clays. 665 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,839 Speaker 3: And this book, while now regarded as totally wrong and 666 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:20,760 Speaker 3: based entirely on observational error and classification error in looking 667 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 3: at the grain of rocks, seems nevertheless to hold an 668 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 3: almost kind of cherished place in the hearts of many 669 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 3: geologists and paleontologists. In this essay he cites Stephen J. 670 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 3: Gould as one of these people who, like everybody knows, 671 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 3: this thesis is totally wrong, but there's something about it 672 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,800 Speaker 3: that they seem to find pleasant and amusing and almost 673 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 3: almost sweet or cute. So what did Kirkpatrick argue, Well, 674 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 3: I want to read here from Zawichevic's summary quote. The ocean, 675 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 3: Kirkpatrick said, is full of organisms which efficiently extract calcium, 676 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 3: carbon and silica from the seawater to create myriad skeletons, 677 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 3: which then go on to become geological strata. Look at 678 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 3: thin sections of those ancient strata through a microscope and 679 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 3: you will see traces of those skeletons, many of them, 680 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 3: he went on to say, show the traces of the 681 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 3: curved shells and chambers of numulites. These were not always obvious, 682 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,280 Speaker 3: but could be detected with the trained eye. That trained 683 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 3: eye then put other rocks under the microscope, with just 684 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 3: a little more training, the same shapes could be detected 685 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 3: in all of the specimens that Kirkpatrick looked at, including 686 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:43,360 Speaker 3: in lavas, granites, and even meteorites. The inference was clear. 687 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 3: So what was that inference? It is that all the 688 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 3: rocks on the surface of the Earth are numbulites. The 689 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:56,879 Speaker 3: Earth itself, Kirkpatrick thought, was essentially encased in a four 690 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 3: a miniferent test of its own. There was a shell 691 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 3: for the planet made out of rocks that were made 692 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:09,720 Speaker 3: out of the fossilized, indigestible shells of marine organisms. From million, 693 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 3: millions of years past, so like whatever other kind of 694 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 3: rock you might think it is. Kirkpatrick was like, no, 695 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 3: that's actually just a version of numulite shells that you know, 696 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 3: looks different for some. 697 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,239 Speaker 2: Reason, numulites all the way down the one. 698 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 3: I didn't get to the bottom of this, but I 699 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,399 Speaker 3: was wondering, wait, why did he think that about meteorites though? 700 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,920 Speaker 3: Did he also think there were noumulites in space or 701 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 3: maybe he thought they didn't really come from space? 702 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 2: Surely that I mean that also is unbelievable, but maybe 703 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,280 Speaker 2: less unbelievable than like, not only this world, but all worlds. 704 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 2: It's numulites throughout the cosmos. Yeah, the idea that like, 705 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,399 Speaker 2: oh yeah, meteorites, that's not real. What you're looking at 706 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 2: is nomulites. 707 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 3: But I guess that connects to the eating fossils idea, 708 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 3: because it's like, oh, you got these organisms, you know, 709 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 3: candyt them, can't digest those shells. Where do they go? 710 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,440 Speaker 3: They end up on the bottom of the ocean, And 711 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,960 Speaker 3: in fact, they really do become a lot of you know, 712 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,799 Speaker 3: a big part of these these sedimentary fossil rocks, these limestones. 713 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,040 Speaker 3: But it is not the case that that all the 714 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 3: rocks on Earth are actually from anomulites. 715 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 2: Wow. 716 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 3: So, in my opinion, big props to Yen Zawachevic for 717 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,919 Speaker 3: this essay, which I would say it's a bull's eye 718 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 3: on the motto of the Ignobel Prizes. Yes, this this 719 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,280 Speaker 3: essay has a lot of historical tidbits that are quite 720 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,239 Speaker 3: funny and silly, but it also made me think in 721 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 3: numerous ways very interesting. 722 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:40,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, we often really enjoy an incorrect 723 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 2: hypothesis about the natural world. You know, I instantly think 724 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,080 Speaker 2: to the idea of the aquatic ape, the aquatic ape 725 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,279 Speaker 2: hypothesis that we covered on the show a while back. 726 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,319 Speaker 2: You know, obviously not true, but it is intriguing to 727 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,040 Speaker 2: sort of dive into it and think about how, you know, 728 00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 2: people became devoted to this idea. And yeah, and then 729 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 2: on top of this, this whole idea of just geologists tasting rocks, 730 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 2: how that factors into their you know, their their analysis 731 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:09,080 Speaker 2: of the geology. 732 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,200 Speaker 3: What is the taste of the e sn epic. 733 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 2: Ask your local geologist. 734 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 3: Okay, well, I think we're going to have to call 735 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 3: it there, but we will be back next time to 736 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:23,720 Speaker 3: talk about more of this year's Ignobel winners. And don't worry, 737 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 3: we are going to be talking about the nose hairs 738 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 3: of a dead man. 739 00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,880 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, nose hairs. That may be where we start. 740 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 2: Next time. We're going to start with the nose hair, 741 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,840 Speaker 2: which makes sense. They're they're right up front, as you 742 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 2: have probably noticed in the mirror. So yeah, I hope 743 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,239 Speaker 2: you will join us for that episode going to be 744 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,840 Speaker 2: here I guess Tuesday. In the meantime, if you would 745 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 2: like to check out other episodes of Stuff to Blow 746 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,440 Speaker 2: your Mind, we'll just remind you that we're primarily a 747 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,919 Speaker 2: science podcast. We get into you know, little history, little philosophy, 748 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,920 Speaker 2: a little what have you. But those core episodes are 749 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,920 Speaker 2: going to come out on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Mondays 750 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,000 Speaker 2: we do a listener mail that your chance to write 751 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,319 Speaker 2: in and chat with us about past, current and future episodes. 752 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 2: On Wednesdays we do a short form artifact or monster 753 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,879 Speaker 2: fact episode unless it's being preempted by something, and then 754 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 2: on Fridays we set aside most serious concerns to just 755 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,919 Speaker 2: talk about a weird movie on Weird House Cinema. 756 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:21,279 Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ posway. 757 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us 758 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 759 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,440 Speaker 3: topic for the future, or just to say hello, you 760 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,239 Speaker 3: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your 761 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 3: Mind dot com. 762 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,440 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 763 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,319 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 764 00:45:45,480 --> 00:46:06,080 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.