1
00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,120
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

2
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

3
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,080
Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg says attempts

4
00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:15,280
Speaker 1: to intimidate his office won't be tolerated. After Trump's calls

5
00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,400
Speaker 1: for protests, we have an absolutely riven in show today.

6
00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,880
Speaker 1: NBC's John Allen stops by to talk about the clown

7
00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:27,440
Speaker 1: car of the GOP presidential primary. Then Pro Publica's Andy

8
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:33,240
Speaker 1: Kroll will detail the vast right wing conspiracy Leonard Leo overseas.

9
00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,960
Speaker 1: But first we have the author of Too Much and

10
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,600
Speaker 1: Never Enough, The Mary Trump Shows. Mary Trump, Welcome to

11
00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,280
Speaker 1: Fast Politics. Mary Trump, Hey, Molly, it's really good to

12
00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,640
Speaker 1: be back. I wish it were under different circumstances as

13
00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:49,960
Speaker 1: the saying, I have to tell you, I was like

14
00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,839
Speaker 1: the only good thing when I saw the Trump tweet

15
00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 1: about how I was going to be arrested by the way,

16
00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,360
Speaker 1: I mean, if we're going to get technical here, it's

17
00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,440
Speaker 1: a misdemeanor. I don't even think they could. I mean,

18
00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,880
Speaker 1: I don't know the nuances of this, but my assumption

19
00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,080
Speaker 1: is the chances of going to jail and misdemeanor are zero.

20
00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,399
Speaker 1: I think you're correct. I am no lawyer here, but

21
00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,040
Speaker 1: when I saw that, I was like, I thought, Oh,

22
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:13,920
Speaker 1: we have to fucking deal with this guy again. And

23
00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,000
Speaker 1: then I thought, oh, but we can talk to Mary

24
00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,040
Speaker 1: so so we can deal with it together. It's like,

25
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,440
Speaker 1: I was like, there is one good family member. I mean,

26
00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,280
Speaker 1: this is like, probably the only person less surprised by

27
00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,760
Speaker 1: that tweet than him or you know, Milannia or Vanna

28
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,240
Speaker 1: wherever she is, was you, Yeah, I might have been

29
00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:38,440
Speaker 1: less surprised, quite honestly. And I mean you saw it

30
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,600
Speaker 1: and you were like, exactly right. Yeah, there's literally nothing

31
00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,520
Speaker 1: the bad could do anymore that should surprise and honestly

32
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,360
Speaker 1: even shocked. There was this period of time we're gonna

33
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,880
Speaker 1: have to start naming them like the place to See era.

34
00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,280
Speaker 1: But there was this particular era in the life of

35
00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,400
Speaker 1: Donald Trump where the reactions were always I'm not surprised,

36
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,960
Speaker 1: but shocked. We have no right to be shocked anymore.

37
00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,680
Speaker 1: The only thing that shocking us right now is how

38
00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,919
Speaker 1: long this is fucking taking. I really want to talk

39
00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,080
Speaker 1: about that for a minute, because that is the thing

40
00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,440
Speaker 1: that it has struck me the most over the last

41
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,600
Speaker 1: couple of months is this ability on the part of

42
00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,359
Speaker 1: both the mainstream media and the conservative media, and also

43
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,680
Speaker 1: all of us to be surprised, you know, like, for example,

44
00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,680
Speaker 1: Trump was asked a question, if you're indicted, will you

45
00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,960
Speaker 1: run and he said yes, because of course, and people

46
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:35,440
Speaker 1: were shocked. He'll run, He'll raise money, and he'll win, right,

47
00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,120
Speaker 1: I know that's the worst. No, He's definitely gonna win.

48
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,280
Speaker 1: The thing that was so shocking to me was I thought, well,

49
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,880
Speaker 1: you know, normal world stuff will make you think, well,

50
00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:49,160
Speaker 1: if enough indictments come, perhaps Republicans will say, like, this

51
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,280
Speaker 1: is the moment. And I don't think there's any evidence

52
00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,280
Speaker 1: to support that. There's zero evidence to support that in fact,

53
00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,040
Speaker 1: and I think one of the reasons you see people

54
00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,640
Speaker 1: like Descent is sitting on the sidelines is because they're

55
00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,519
Speaker 1: waiting to see what the reaction is to the indictments.

56
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,400
Speaker 1: And I can tell them it will fire up the

57
00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,320
Speaker 1: base even more and it will get other people to

58
00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,639
Speaker 1: change their minds and decide to support him, because he's

59
00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,359
Speaker 1: going to betray himself at such an aggrieved victim, and

60
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,400
Speaker 1: he's going to call on all of them to right

61
00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,079
Speaker 1: the wrongs not just against him, but against them. It's

62
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:27,560
Speaker 1: going to do the same thing that he did in

63
00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,680
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, but on steroids. So the moment that I

64
00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:36,760
Speaker 1: think was the moment where we saw eight thirty am

65
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,200
Speaker 1: Yesterday's on the eighteenth, sort of two hours after Trump

66
00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,560
Speaker 1: had truced about how he was going to jail for

67
00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,640
Speaker 1: because of political reasons, because of a which had Kevin McCarthy,

68
00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,680
Speaker 1: the man who was made speaker basically by a combination

69
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,240
Speaker 1: of Chuckle Carlson and Donald Trump, said here we go again,

70
00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,200
Speaker 1: an outrageous abuse of power by a radical da who

71
00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,600
Speaker 1: lets violent criminals walk as he pursues political vengeance against

72
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,960
Speaker 1: President Trump. I mean, I feel like that was the moment.

73
00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,040
Speaker 1: It was like the same as going tomorrow Longo to

74
00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,960
Speaker 1: take pictures with Trump after January six Yeah, that's absolutely right.

75
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,280
Speaker 1: He has shown us with that statement that he's all in.

76
00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,560
Speaker 1: He's also shown us, not that we needed more evidence

77
00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,080
Speaker 1: of it than he's a complete idiot, because I'm guessing

78
00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,440
Speaker 1: he's seen absolutely none of the Graduary evidence. Yeah, they

79
00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:29,440
Speaker 1: are preempting any reasonable analysis of what has gone into this.

80
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,200
Speaker 1: We had to say potential indictment because it doesn't happen yet,

81
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,160
Speaker 1: right exactly, But it is amazing to me, because like,

82
00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,280
Speaker 1: the thing is, it just seems to me so clear, right.

83
00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,440
Speaker 1: And the funny thing about that tweet I wanted to

84
00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,719
Speaker 1: just talk about the tweet from Kevin McCarthy for another minute,

85
00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,640
Speaker 1: was the person who was most relieved to see that

86
00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,560
Speaker 1: tweet was not Donald Trump, I think, but Donald Trump Junior,

87
00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,080
Speaker 1: because he knows it as soon as this exercise is over,

88
00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,400
Speaker 1: his great betraying stops. Oh yeah, that's actually I tried

89
00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,080
Speaker 1: never to think about him, so that didn't occur to me.

90
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,360
Speaker 1: But you're absolutely right. It'll be kind of interesting to

91
00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:10,560
Speaker 1: see if it shifts the stands of either neutrality or

92
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,640
Speaker 1: just seeing themselves that we've seen from what's her name

93
00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,240
Speaker 1: Avanca and Jared. Yeah, if the entire party gets on

94
00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,960
Speaker 1: board in the midst of what should be many, many, many,

95
00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,600
Speaker 1: many indictments, I feel like with Avanca and Jared, there's more.

96
00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,680
Speaker 1: I mean, supposedly they are rumors that there's trouble in

97
00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,560
Speaker 1: paradise there and that maybe that is distracting them from

98
00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,200
Speaker 1: their primary purpose, which is grifting off the gravy train

99
00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,440
Speaker 1: that is Dad. And I say, this is a NEPO

100
00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,640
Speaker 1: baby myself, though I'm a middle aged so I'm a

101
00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:44,000
Speaker 1: nepo oldie. Your fortunes are invariably tied to your qualifier,

102
00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,120
Speaker 1: you know, the one you get your nepotistic glow from.

103
00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,559
Speaker 1: So I mean, the fortune of Donald Trump is very much,

104
00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,200
Speaker 1: I think, on the agenda of the spawn. And for

105
00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:58,280
Speaker 1: Donnie and Eric, they are entirely attached. I know, poor

106
00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:03,800
Speaker 1: I forgot about Eric well, because why not. Their fortunes

107
00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,240
Speaker 1: are entirely attached to Donald. Jared and Nevacca haven't. First

108
00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,680
Speaker 1: of all, Jared is legitimately wealthy. His father's legitimately wealthy,

109
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,440
Speaker 1: and after he got out of jail, he's been legitimately

110
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,080
Speaker 1: about it, yes exactly, or you know, legitimate to the

111
00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,720
Speaker 1: extent that people like that can be, right, And I

112
00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,359
Speaker 1: think that well, clearly the calculation they've been making is

113
00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:28,719
Speaker 1: that between Jared's daddy and MBS, they don't need Donald anymore, right,

114
00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:34,400
Speaker 1: But you know, if he regains political relevance, and if

115
00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,200
Speaker 1: they want political relevance, that will change their tune. It

116
00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,400
Speaker 1: depends what kind of power is more important to them.

117
00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,440
Speaker 1: I always am sort of struck by and again I

118
00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,560
Speaker 1: know this is like my own stupid naivete and by

119
00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 1: the way, naivete is not the right word for what

120
00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,960
Speaker 1: I'm about to describe. But there was an opportunity right

121
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,320
Speaker 1: after trump loss for some of these members of the

122
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,520
Speaker 1: family to run for office. I mean, the Republican Party

123
00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,320
Speaker 1: has a very low bar, you know, especially in these

124
00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,640
Speaker 1: very red states, and if you've just touched Donald Trump,

125
00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,520
Speaker 1: you can be you know, and none of them took it,

126
00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,240
Speaker 1: which I always sort of was shocked by. Yeah, I

127
00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:13,640
Speaker 1: think the only well, I think Donnie just isn't capable

128
00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,040
Speaker 1: of getting to a point where he can pull himself

129
00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,520
Speaker 1: together enough to do something I don't. I mean, I'm

130
00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,160
Speaker 1: not trying. I mean it's I have the disease of alcoholism.

131
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sober a long time. But I get it, man.

132
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying that anyone has anything, but

133
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,360
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I understand the inability to pull oneself together.

134
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,680
Speaker 1: I relate to that. Yeah, as do I honestly for

135
00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,440
Speaker 1: for different reasons. But you know, I think a lot

136
00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:41,160
Speaker 1: of us suffer from that, especially post Donald postcoment. Right exactly.

137
00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,000
Speaker 1: But I think again with the Bunco, it was more

138
00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,600
Speaker 1: that ended so badly that there was no way to

139
00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,960
Speaker 1: know at first how easily the Republican Party would be

140
00:07:54,080 --> 00:08:01,200
Speaker 1: swayed to fall in line, and how egregiously responsible the

141
00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,040
Speaker 1: new powers that be at the DOJ would be in

142
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,880
Speaker 1: calling anybody to account. I don't know that it would

143
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,680
Speaker 1: have been clear at the time that Trump would have

144
00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,560
Speaker 1: gotten away with it, which we now now he will. Yep,

145
00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,640
Speaker 1: we do, and I think it is pretty interesting to

146
00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,080
Speaker 1: hang up. So I want to talk to you about Well,

147
00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,560
Speaker 1: let's just game out this week a little bit. It's Sunday.

148
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,000
Speaker 1: This podcast comes out on Monday, actually comes out on

149
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,080
Speaker 1: Sunday night for those of you who are very excited.

150
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,000
Speaker 1: So you know Trump has said Tuesday, We've heard Monday,

151
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,480
Speaker 1: we've heard Wednesday, we heard last Friday, so certainly something

152
00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,280
Speaker 1: is coming. There are other indictments, again though none of

153
00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,520
Speaker 1: these are from the DOJ, so they have a lot

154
00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,160
Speaker 1: less power than a DOOJ indictment or they because they

155
00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,200
Speaker 1: are come from these lawmakers who have been elected, they

156
00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,640
Speaker 1: have a certain partisan tinge even if you might not

157
00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,360
Speaker 1: believe that, but it does undermine I think a little

158
00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,360
Speaker 1: bit about what's going on. I mean, what do you

159
00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,720
Speaker 1: think I think? I mean, they're protests planned, there's more tweeting.

160
00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:57,280
Speaker 1: I mean, where do you think this goes you know,

161
00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 1: your uncle, unfortunately for you. Uh yeah, I think his

162
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,800
Speaker 1: reaction falls into two categories. Well, whatever the case is,

163
00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,800
Speaker 1: he'll do what he's already been doing. He's he's already

164
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:14,040
Speaker 1: setting up the challenge. He's attempting to undermine the validity

165
00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:19,480
Speaker 1: of the process and the charges, etc. And the only

166
00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,360
Speaker 1: thing we don't know is if it is he going

167
00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,280
Speaker 1: to cooperate. One thing about Donald is when push comes

168
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,480
Speaker 1: to show, he does seem to have this pragmatic side.

169
00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,000
Speaker 1: You know, he didn't dig in his heels and stay

170
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,079
Speaker 1: at the Oval office. Were you a little shot by that?

171
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,360
Speaker 1: It was a little shocked by that. No, I wasn't

172
00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,040
Speaker 1: because he's a baby, and you know that would have

173
00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,280
Speaker 1: taken some guts. Actually, So what does he do. He

174
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,120
Speaker 1: leaves with all of his many thousands of stolen documents,

175
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:48,800
Speaker 1: and he just doesn't go to the inauguration, right, that's right? Yeah, Yeah,

176
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:54,280
Speaker 1: that's that's how he fought the good fight. Yeah, exactly.

177
00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,320
Speaker 1: So I think it's really unlikely that he doesn't show

178
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,040
Speaker 1: because for whatever reason. So I don't think it's a

179
00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,680
Speaker 1: about even listening to anybody, although I'm sure he doesn't

180
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,680
Speaker 1: some level have to be persuaded. He does have a

181
00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:09,520
Speaker 1: remarkable instinct for self preservation. So I want to talk

182
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 1: about John Edwards because I think that as an important

183
00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 1: data point. John Edwards, Democrat, very handsome, extremely nice head

184
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,640
Speaker 1: of hair, accused of funneling nearly a million dollars and

185
00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,080
Speaker 1: don't have contributions to support his pregnant mistress. Again, not

186
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,640
Speaker 1: what campaign money is supposed to be. Engage those of

187
00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,560
Speaker 1: you who are Republicans who are listening to this, because

188
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,760
Speaker 1: I got if you're right, Yeah, he is accused, he

189
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:38,559
Speaker 1: is indicted, and he is ultimately he's ultimately it's dismissed.

190
00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,240
Speaker 1: There definitely is a sense that people do not want

191
00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:48,559
Speaker 1: to indict former candidates. We discuss that's stupid. Is that

192
00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:54,480
Speaker 1: in nuanced enough? I mean Elon Musk said this is

193
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,520
Speaker 1: going to make him president against well, okay, not because

194
00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,199
Speaker 1: of the indictment though, because the process is so broken,

195
00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:07,360
Speaker 1: Because if indeed this is the first indictment against him,

196
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,480
Speaker 1: that makes all of the others, which are much much

197
00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:17,280
Speaker 1: much more serious, harder or tainted somehow. So it isn't

198
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,240
Speaker 1: because he's getting indicted. It's because he's had oh my god,

199
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,400
Speaker 1: how many years, so many years that I feel like

200
00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:30,000
Speaker 1: I'm ninety eight now to evade, change the subject, create

201
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,120
Speaker 1: a new narrative, get other people believing laws, etc. And

202
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,560
Speaker 1: you also have people on the right side of things,

203
00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:39,840
Speaker 1: which is to say, the left, who we're gonna be like, yeah,

204
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,640
Speaker 1: so because it's just taking forever. It also has a

205
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,520
Speaker 1: lot to do with framing. It's always this is cases.

206
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,479
Speaker 1: I see it always put in terms of Stormy Daniels

207
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,040
Speaker 1: and hush money, right, but it's not. It's it's elections

208
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,000
Speaker 1: from which clearly not as as serious as inciting an

209
00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,440
Speaker 1: armed insurrection against your own government two elections in a row,

210
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,640
Speaker 1: but it's still pretty freaking serious. And it's our unwillingness

211
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,360
Speaker 1: just face these things head on that continues to enable

212
00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,960
Speaker 1: people like Donald Trump to gain power. And it starts with,

213
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,680
Speaker 1: you know, the fact that Richard Nixon wasn't indicted. Yeah, no,

214
00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,400
Speaker 1: I think that's right. I think it is interesting though,

215
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,240
Speaker 1: when we're talking about this, to think about how the

216
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,360
Speaker 1: Republican Party, so we saw Kevin McCarthy, we're gonna see

217
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,720
Speaker 1: other I want to like finish up with this Don Junior,

218
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:35,760
Speaker 1: because it's like you can see what's happening in his

219
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,520
Speaker 1: head So after Don Junior tweeted that like this tweet

220
00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,040
Speaker 1: about how it's thrilled he was that Kevin McCarthy decided

221
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:50,920
Speaker 1: to defend his dad, Don Junior wrote another tweet, feeling

222
00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,680
Speaker 1: a little bit now he's decided the tides have turned

223
00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,839
Speaker 1: and he's pretty psyched any things, people are going to

224
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,040
Speaker 1: continue to support his dad, And he says, pay attention

225
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,760
Speaker 1: to which Republicans spoke out against this corrupt bs immediately

226
00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,000
Speaker 1: and who sat on their hands and waited which way

227
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,280
Speaker 1: the wind was blowing. So, I mean, you do definitely

228
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,400
Speaker 1: see like the Trump addas apparatus has kicked into gear.

229
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,480
Speaker 1: You got Pizza Jack, you got Don Junior. They are

230
00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,439
Speaker 1: ready to support daddy and bully whoever they can into

231
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,760
Speaker 1: supporting him. And again, I just don't see how this

232
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:27,800
Speaker 1: apparatus does not deliver Donald Trump the GOP nomination. It does,

233
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:32,320
Speaker 1: That's what it was designed for. And again that's actually fine.

234
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,520
Speaker 1: That's how it's supposed to work, right, that's their job.

235
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:41,320
Speaker 1: The problem, again, always comes back to the unwillingness of

236
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,920
Speaker 1: the people who actually had the power to do something

237
00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,920
Speaker 1: about it refusing to do something about it. You know,

238
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,439
Speaker 1: I mean, we've talked about this before Jack Smith. It

239
00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,360
Speaker 1: took two years for this man to be appointed special counsel.

240
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,920
Speaker 1: That should have happened two years ago. Fanny Willis, I'm

241
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,680
Speaker 1: not going to second guess her, but last I checked,

242
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,640
Speaker 1: imminent doesn't mean it'll be a really long time and

243
00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:06,000
Speaker 1: I'll probably be dead before anything happens. So not that

244
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,560
Speaker 1: she's unwilling, but that if you are so concerned about

245
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,480
Speaker 1: that phrase, if I hear it one more time, I'm

246
00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:13,559
Speaker 1: gonna jump off a cliff. Go for the king. You

247
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:15,800
Speaker 1: miss not miss right. If you don't go for him

248
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,080
Speaker 1: at all, you know you're totally gonna miss right. That's

249
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,240
Speaker 1: what the apparatus has had so much time, so much leeway,

250
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,440
Speaker 1: they've gotten away with so much. They've changed so many narratives,

251
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,840
Speaker 1: they've changed so many minds that if DeSantis or anybody

252
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,200
Speaker 1: of his ilk did decide to run, they will be

253
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,920
Speaker 1: roadkill and they will be tainted forever for running as

254
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,920
Speaker 1: a Republicans. Right. It's just such an interesting I mean,

255
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,000
Speaker 1: are you worried about violence in New York? I mean,

256
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,320
Speaker 1: it sounds like there's certainly some chance of that. I'm

257
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,280
Speaker 1: not worried about violence in New York City. It is

258
00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,480
Speaker 1: so anti Donald that, um, you know, the number of

259
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:58,720
Speaker 1: people to show up will be outnumbered. They should, yeah, exactly,

260
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:03,240
Speaker 1: But the problem is that it could happen anywhere. You know,

261
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,640
Speaker 1: we could we could be looking at stochastic violence because

262
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 1: of how Donald triggers people. And that's the concern that

263
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,880
Speaker 1: we said, you know, after the FBI search of Marlago,

264
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,480
Speaker 1: that guy in scott tried to go at an FBI

265
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,160
Speaker 1: office and he ended up dead, and other people could

266
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,480
Speaker 1: have been killed. So I have a feeling one of

267
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,720
Speaker 1: the reasons that it's taken longer is because all of

268
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,680
Speaker 1: these venues have to put in place very very serious

269
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:37,640
Speaker 1: security organizations because they are desperately worried that Donald is

270
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,160
Speaker 1: going to incite people to commit violence, which I'm guessing

271
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,240
Speaker 1: John Edwards did not do. But he did have that

272
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:48,480
Speaker 1: beautiful hair. He did have very beautiful I can see

273
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,680
Speaker 1: the hair. I'm sorry that you have to deal with

274
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,680
Speaker 1: this again. I mean, I'm sorry that we have to

275
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,240
Speaker 1: deal with this again, but I am sorry. Like, at least,

276
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,200
Speaker 1: I don't like Donald Trump, and I don't like how

277
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,240
Speaker 1: this went down, but it doesn't like my own fucked

278
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,480
Speaker 1: up family stuff is not somehow tied to this this

279
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,680
Speaker 1: is true. It would be really weird if it were right.

280
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,320
Speaker 1: But I mean, I feel like there's a certain kind

281
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,040
Speaker 1: of you know, I can just deal with my parents

282
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 1: in a compartmentalized box, which is not in the American

283
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,480
Speaker 1: political system. Game is out for me. Where do you

284
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,760
Speaker 1: think this goes? Specifically in terms of New York, well,

285
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,400
Speaker 1: and just in terms of like the you know, he

286
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,840
Speaker 1: wins the nomination. What worries me is that he is

287
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,680
Speaker 1: in some regards stronger in twenty twenty four than he

288
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:39,720
Speaker 1: was in twenty sixteen or twenty twenty simply. And this

289
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,400
Speaker 1: is a great irony because in some ways the Biden

290
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,560
Speaker 1: administration has made things better, you know, So there's that

291
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,160
Speaker 1: unlike twenty sixteen, Donald will have all of the Republican

292
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,480
Speaker 1: arms supporting it, right, so you know, they'll all get

293
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,080
Speaker 1: in line no matter what they say about him. I

294
00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,280
Speaker 1: don't know that the never Donald group has grown significantly

295
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,879
Speaker 1: in the interim. On the other hand, I think his

296
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:09,359
Speaker 1: running actually undercut some of their arguments against Biden. Although

297
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,840
Speaker 1: actually they only have one argument against Biden, and it's

298
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,040
Speaker 1: that he's old, right, It's too old. Yeah, I can't

299
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,760
Speaker 1: live my life if I think that Donald will win

300
00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:24,880
Speaker 1: the general election. Right, I have to be optimistic, but

301
00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 1: I think we'd need to be very, very worried. Yeah, no,

302
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:34,080
Speaker 1: I think that's right. Happy Sunday everyone, Happy Monday everyone,

303
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,680
Speaker 1: or Sunday night. Right, the worst is yet to cut.

304
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:42,920
Speaker 1: That's right, That's right, because really knows. Yeah. Oh, thank you, Mary.

305
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:50,720
Speaker 1: It's great to be. John Allen is a political reporter

306
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,439
Speaker 1: at NBC and the author of Lucky How Joe Biden

307
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,280
Speaker 1: Barely won the presidency. Welcome back to Bass Politics, my

308
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:04,440
Speaker 1: friend and yours, Allen, Molly, John Fast. We're going to

309
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,320
Speaker 1: do old radio here. You've been to some rallies, John,

310
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,719
Speaker 1: You've seen some shit. Tell me what you've seen. I

311
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,639
Speaker 1: went to see Ron de Santisi's first two events in

312
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:20,200
Speaker 1: Iowa a week ago, and then Donald Trump's first rally

313
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,480
Speaker 1: in Iowa of the twenty twenty four campaign a few

314
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,280
Speaker 1: days later, also in Iowa. Where were you in Davenport

315
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,480
Speaker 1: and Des Moines for the two to Santas events and

316
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,080
Speaker 1: then back in Davenport for the Trump event if you know,

317
00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,119
Speaker 1: For folks who don't know, Davenport is on the Mississippi River,

318
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,360
Speaker 1: one of the four quad cities that straddle the Mississippi

319
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,560
Speaker 1: between Iowa and Illinois. All right, that's more than I

320
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,920
Speaker 1: want to know about Davenport. We gotta We're no, I'm

321
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,360
Speaker 1: just kidding. We're not a geography podcast. I first want

322
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,440
Speaker 1: to talk about Ron Santas because I feel like everyone

323
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,320
Speaker 1: is very excited about him. I mean, I've read reporting

324
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,359
Speaker 1: that says he's kind of a goof talk to me.

325
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,760
Speaker 1: You gave you know, actually what would be a stump

326
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,679
Speaker 1: speech to about seven hundred people in each location that

327
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,120
Speaker 1: he spoke at. He was introduced by Governor Kim Reynolds,

328
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 1: who sat on stage with him and did some Q

329
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,600
Speaker 1: and A with him. He signed books for people, you know.

330
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,160
Speaker 1: I think what I would say is that if there

331
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 1: were not a Donald Trump in this race, and it's

332
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,200
Speaker 1: like an open Republican primary, and you were around to

333
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,200
Speaker 1: Santus and you went into Iowa and fifteen hundred people

334
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,119
Speaker 1: came to see you the first day between two events,

335
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 1: you'd have to feel like you were in pretty good shape.

336
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,800
Speaker 1: But there is a Donald Trump in this race, and

337
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,359
Speaker 1: Donald Trump remains the dominant factory is the thing that

338
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,159
Speaker 1: the person that people talk the most about. I think

339
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,160
Speaker 1: Iowa voters are open to an alternative. But that alternative,

340
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 1: whether it's Rondo Santus or somebody else, is going to

341
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,840
Speaker 1: have to clear the bar of Iowa voters thinking that

342
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 1: they're electable. Right, do you think that Donald Trump would

343
00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 1: honor not being the nominee? Hilarious question. I mean, I

344
00:19:54,800 --> 00:20:00,359
Speaker 1: don't want to predict future results based on past performance. Yeah. Six,

345
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 1: And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. This is

346
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 1: the thing I don't understand about the current calculus is

347
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,400
Speaker 1: that if Donald Trump were a normal candidate who said,

348
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,480
Speaker 1: all right, it's enough. You know, I've lost three times,

349
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,919
Speaker 1: I'll let the party recover, and you guys, can you

350
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 1: chart a new course? But there is no evidence to

351
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 1: support the idea that he would do that. No, quite

352
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,160
Speaker 1: the opposite. And you know, the Republican Party is somewhat

353
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 1: hostage to that. If the belief is that Donald Trump

354
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 1: is going to tell his folks to stay home, or

355
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,680
Speaker 1: he's going to take other action, you know, casting down

356
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 1: on the integrity of Republican primis or run is a

357
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,359
Speaker 1: third party? Right? Well, I think he's less likely to

358
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,159
Speaker 1: run as a third party candidate for a variety of reasons,

359
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 1: including the difficulty of getting on the ballot as a

360
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,440
Speaker 1: third party candidate. I mean, there's a whole host of reasons.

361
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,159
Speaker 1: There are states that have sore loser laws, you know,

362
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,119
Speaker 1: that make that really difficult. So I think that there's

363
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,199
Speaker 1: plenty of reason to think he wouldn't actually run as

364
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,199
Speaker 1: a third party candidate. But that doesn't mean that he

365
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't sink the Republican nominee out of spite. I don't

366
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 1: think that's something that's predictable right now. I think he would,

367
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,640
Speaker 1: you know, sort of gauge what was in his best

368
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 1: interest at the time. Wouldn't it be in his best interests?

369
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 1: No matter like, say he gets indicted, which is certainly possible,

370
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,119
Speaker 1: say he gets indicted, wouldn't it still be in his

371
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:20,360
Speaker 1: best interests to continue on this road of running for president?

372
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 1: Because at least, you know, if he's not running for president,

373
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: he's just a normal guy, whereas if he's a candidate,

374
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 1: he then has the added protection of being a candidate.

375
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 1: There's that. And also, you know, I talked to voters

376
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: who said that they thought indictment would help him politically. Yeah,

377
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: I think that too. So I mean, and you know,

378
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: there's no reason that he can't run if he's indicted,

379
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 1: no reason he couldn't run. Even if you were convicted

380
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,719
Speaker 1: of something, I don't expect him to go away from

381
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 1: the campaign trail, right, Okay, So talk to me about

382
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 1: what does Santis was like. The thing that we see

383
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 1: in a lot of reporting is that he's Jeb He's

384
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 1: not Clinton, Bill not Hillary. I mean, is that true?

385
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 1: Or I mean, what did you say? Did he kiss babies? Well?

386
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 1: He did. I mean he did some of that sort

387
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: of basic retail politicking but felt a little stage. But

388
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 1: I guess what I would say is, you know, if

389
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 1: you're watching the Santis up close for the first time,

390
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 1: he's a pretty polished public speaker, but he's not engrossing.

391
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: He's not Donald Trump, he's not Bill Clinton, who's got

392
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: you know, the audience in the palm of his hand.

393
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: I think, you know, for his campaign, they would probably

394
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 1: like to be something akin to George W. Bush in

395
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,959
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, where the party just decides it's him and

396
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 1: he's got, you know, the sort of combination of natural

397
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: capabilities and manufactured star power versus Jeff Bush who just

398
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: got a lot of money and then swandered it because

399
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: he wasn't very good as a candidate. You know, he

400
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 1: wasn't good on the campaign trail. My guess is that

401
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: Ron de Santis will fall somewhere between the two bushes,

402
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 1: not between two ferns. Mind you, that's somebody else's show.

403
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,719
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about W for a second,

404
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: because everything old is new again, umba. And again, no

405
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 1: fan of W. W was a folksy guy. George W.

406
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: Bush could come over to your house and hang out

407
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: and you probably have a good time with them. Yeah,

408
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 1: have a beer or whatever. Yeah. I mean again, I'm

409
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: no fan of W. In fact, if anyone's not a

410
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: fan of w's me. But I do think that there

411
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: was a sense with WA, and a lot of that

412
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: was an affectation. But he did fake folksy very very well.

413
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously he's not you know, does it come

414
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: from folksy? Certainly comes from Pappy and uh, you know,

415
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 1: and extreme wealth and privilege. But he seemed like a

416
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: regular guy and you know, and consistently right even you know,

417
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 1: other politicians have met with them. Mean, it's easy to

418
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 1: get along with get a really good relationship with Nancy Pelosi.

419
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 1: I don't think they just liked each other. As far

420
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: as the Santas goes. I mean, there are all these

421
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: stories that you know, almost anyone you talk to, we'll

422
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: tell you some story of Ryan de Santa's behaving awkwardly

423
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: in public, meaning you know, going to an event and

424
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 1: sort of sitting in a corner putting fingers. Yeah, there

425
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 1: was a report just this week about him eating chocolate

426
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: pudding with three fingers on an airplane. Yeah, on an airplane,

427
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 1: which would put Amy klovichars eating salad with a Combs

428
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 1: story to shame. What kind of pudding was it? Tapioca pudding.

429
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but presidential hopeful

430
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: Mariann Williamson, serious presidential candidate marian Williamson, please insert irony

431
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: here also had a terrible Boss piece come out this week,

432
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: and people were saying, well, they're just trying to bring

433
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: her down because she's a woman, which again, that does happen.

434
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 1: It's more unusual to have these stories about men. It's

435
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: more unusual to have these stories about men. You know,

436
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: I don't remember a story about a man eating pudding

437
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 1: with so I guess that's that's sort of unprecedented. These

438
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: tend to be written more about women. There is sort

439
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 1: of an angle of misogyny toward the concept that women

440
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 1: are tough on their staffs. I think that the bar

441
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: is different, But that doesn't mean the abuse of men

442
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: bosses should get a free pass because there's more scrutiny

443
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: on women, and at the same time, also abusive men

444
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: bosses should not get a pass. And a third thing

445
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: is we should understand that the culture of the work

446
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: world and the adult work world is that if you're

447
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: not doing your job, sometimes somebody should tell you that directly.

448
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: And also sometimes people have difficulty with that. So all

449
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: of that fan don't need putting with your fingers on

450
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: an airplane if you're going to run for president, right,

451
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 1: that's the overall thing, which is no matter all the

452
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: other rules. Don't need putting with your fingers on an

453
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: airplane past the age of four even then, I mean,

454
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: if you're planning I'm running for president. So talk to

455
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: me about you saw DeSantis. He speaks very well, he's

456
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 1: quite smart. He's a lawyer. He went to hard already

457
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: went to Yale, YadA, YadA, YadA. So you got a

458
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: real sense of him. Tell me about the Trump rally

459
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,360
Speaker 1: that you want to So the Trump rally, I want

460
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: it was in a venue that's a little smaller than

461
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: Trump usually does. It was inside in a theater that

462
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: you know, holds somewhere north of two thousand people. This

463
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: was Trump, you know, doing Trump for two hours. I've

464
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 1: seen it before. There's a little fresher. He's got new

465
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: material stand up, including you know, including some serious policy,

466
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: uh you know, sort of policy rollouts, baby bonuses, there's

467
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: baby bonuses. He wants to break up the Department of

468
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: Education into what fascism and light fascism, well into states

469
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: running education. Oh wow, that'll be great, all right, son.

470
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: But my point is that there's there's actually some substance

471
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: to what he's talking about, some forward looking substance, whether

472
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: you agree with it or not. And that's a little

473
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: bit different. And you know, his crowds are exceptually into

474
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: what he's doing. You got huge standing ovations, repeatedly, people

475
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 1: chanting Adam, what are they chanting? Chanting pro Trump slogans,

476
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: so like lock her up? No, no, no, no, no, no,

477
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: just oh well that's something. Yeah. No, I mean there

478
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: was no locker up, build a wall and stuff like that.

479
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: I can't remember. Build the wall was specific one of them.

480
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: There was definitely USA chants stuff like that. So that

481
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: what I was gonna say is the one noticeable difference

482
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 1: was that when he went after rhyme to Santas by

483
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: name or by nickname, the sanctimonious, the fact if the

484
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: crowd was relatively silent, they didn't like it. Oh, or

485
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 1: they certainly didn't love it. They weren't eating it up. Wow. Yeah,

486
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: has he tried tiny D yet? I have not heard

487
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: him roll that out. I think that is the thing

488
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: that ends up killing him, tiny D. I want to

489
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: stay employed. Molly. Um, that's interesting. So who had bigger crowds?

490
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: Trump had bigger crowds. He had one crowd and it

491
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 1: was bigger than the two crowds that the Sanatas head

492
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: who had more enthusiastic crowds Trump, So that's pretty interesting.

493
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the people at the Santas rally,

494
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: and I spoke to a lot of him, were sort

495
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: of open to the Santas. Certainly the people who were

496
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: already in his camp showed up, but like there were

497
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 1: a bunch of people there that were I guess more

498
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: than curious but less than committed. They want to hear

499
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: what he had to say, and some of it they like,

500
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: and even those really like what he's say saying may

501
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 1: still vote for Trump. Right. I mean that I think

502
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: is the ultimate problem. I also saw this poll laing

503
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: and I actually wrote about this this week. Ideologically, a

504
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: lot of these Republicans would rather win, I mean, would

505
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: rather have someone they agree with than win. Yeah. I

506
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: saw that polling. And if you go for somebody you

507
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: agree with over somebody who will win, typically will find

508
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: that you no longer like that person you agree with

509
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: because they've lost an election. Yeah, but that hasn't happened

510
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: with Trump, right, I mean he's lost three elections. Oh,

511
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: you're saying the midterms. Yeah, yeah, I mean the direct

512
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: correlation from the president or the recent former president to

513
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: midterm results is fraught. Did he two things that hurt Republicans? Absolutely?

514
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: Did he lose in twenty twenty, Absolutely, one hundred percent,

515
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: But not everybody who is a Republican voter believes that

516
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: he lost fairly Well. That is the other thing I

517
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: want to talk to you about, because I think that's

518
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: really important. There is a not insignificant part of the

519
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: Republican Party that believes these sort of I think the

520
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: biggest example of it is carry Lake with her I

521
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: actually won the governorship. Do you think it serves Republicans

522
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: And if so, how well? I think it's going to

523
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: be very hard for her to serve as governor of

524
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: Arizona and vice president can currently She'll find a way.

525
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: I don't think that it will serve Republicans, certainly in

526
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: the long term. I don't think it'll serve them in

527
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: the short term. You know, I think election denialism was

528
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: one of the things that was on the ballot in

529
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: the mid terms, and generally speaking it was rejected. There

530
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: were certainly a few places where it wasn't. But like

531
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: I have to think that that's generally a bad thing

532
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: for the Republican Party. And if the Republicans are successful,

533
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: and let's remember that it's not all the Republicans that

534
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: are pushing this, and in fact, most Republicans aren't, But

535
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: if Republicans were to be successful in pushing election denialism,

536
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: it would be a very bad thing for the country

537
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: and the world. Yes, let me clarify why I say that,

538
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: Because anybody pushing election denialism for legitimate election and gaining power,

539
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: whether Republican, Democrat, or anything else, would be bad for

540
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: the country and bad for the world. I want to

541
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: ask you about this, this Fox polling, because this is

542
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: pretty interesting. So there is this Fox polling that came

543
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: out after the Dominion lawsuit, which says that people have

544
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: lost some faith in Fox. Do you think that's bullshit?

545
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: That they've seen some stuff about the Dominion stuff. And again,

546
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows where they're seeing it, right, because

547
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: they're certainly not seeing it on Fox. But I mean,

548
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: what do you what's your hot take on that? I mean,

549
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: does that ultimately hurt the brand? I mean I talked

550
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: to Republican voters at the Trump rally, and you know,

551
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: for the most part, they hadn't heard of the dominion

552
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: lawsuit at all, much less what Tucker Carlton and other

553
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: Fox as were saying in text messages. These people are

554
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: still diehard Foxers. Well, I mean, I think they're more

555
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: Trump than Fox. So if there's a split there, I

556
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: think that Trump retains most of the Trump folks, you know,

557
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: And I asked people about that too, and that's that's

558
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: kind of the response I got. So yeah, I mean,

559
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: I don't think that Dominion lawsuit and what the Fox

560
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: folks are saying behind the scenes is going to have

561
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: much of an impact, in part because Fox News isn't

562
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: showing right right, right, right, so they're not going to

563
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: see it. Though I do think when the trial happens,

564
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: they're going to have a harder time hiding it. I

565
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: think they'll probably have a harder time. But again, if

566
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: you get your news from one source and that source

567
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: isn't covering something, then you're not going to know about it. Agreed. Agreed.

568
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: Now I want to ask you, I mean, it does

569
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: sound like the top line from what you're saying, and

570
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: I'm just extrapolating here is basically it's Trump's party and

571
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: if he continues to want it, he can have it.

572
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: I would give him the advantage right now for winning

573
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: the Republican nomination. There are more people in the Republican

574
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: Party who are for Trump than who are for anybody else,

575
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: and that makes him the dominant figure. So again, and

576
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: we've been saying this for a while, like he's less

577
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: powerful than he probably has been at any point. I

578
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: don't think that's true though, because February was a good

579
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: month for him. Maybe he's getting a little stronger, but

580
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: from his apax has lost power within the Republican Party.

581
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: And yet he is still by far the most powerful

582
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: republic Yeah, much more than match. Donald Trump, even out

583
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: of office, has more certainly has more power in the

584
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: Republican Party than Mitch mccamall does. Yeah, unbelievable. I want

585
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,959
Speaker 1: to ask you, what are you watching now? What are

586
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: you covering? What's happening now? I would think of you

587
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: as sort of a person who knows what's going on.

588
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's race by Desantists to get

589
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: to where Trump is on Ukraine, which is to say,

590
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: you know, moving away from the US support for Ukraine.

591
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: Is fascinating to watch because there's a big split in

592
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: the Republican Party between you know, the sort of populist,

593
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: nationalist some would say, isolationist wing represented by Trump and

594
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: his group, and then the sort of old school establishment

595
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: defensehawk stet and just kind of watching that develop is

596
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: going to be interesting. I know most Americans don't vote

597
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: on foreign policy, but I think sometimes foreign policy can

598
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: be a proxy for how you see a leader. But

599
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: don't you think the calculus and de Santists made was

600
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: that he couldn't win a presidential primary without Tucker, and

601
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: so he had to do what he thought Tucker would want.

602
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no way the lawyer from Gitmo doesn't

603
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: believe in this kind of nation building stuff. Yeah, I

604
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: mean I agree that he feels like he has to

605
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: move toward Tucker Carlson, but only because Tucker Carlson is

606
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: where a lot of the bases, which is where Donald

607
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: Trump is. I mean, they're all kind of following each other, right,

608
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: It's a chicken or the egg situation. But to the

609
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: expect that Ron Sanderson, you know, sort of offers a

610
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: watered down version of Donald Trump. Like, there's a question

611
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: about whether that works. I mean, we just saw in

612
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: the last Democratic primary how difficult it was for candidates

613
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: between the poles of Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden, you know,

614
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: the people in the middle of them till I sort

615
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: of emerge, right, Like the watered down version of either

616
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: one of them didn't really work that well. One last question,

617
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: because we're out of time. Do you think the Biden

618
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: announces soon? You think he's the nominee? You think Mary

619
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: and Williamson takes him out. I think Mary and Williamson

620
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: will not be the Democratic nominee. Why do you hate women? No,

621
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding, just one, Molly.

622
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: So maryon Williamson will not be the nominee. Is that

623
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: what you're saying? Mary? And Williamson will not be the nominee.

624
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, as he likes to say, good Lord Willing

625
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: and the creek don't rise, whatever that means, all other

626
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: things being equal, Joe Biden will be the nominee. Funny,

627
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: Thank you, John Allen, Take care. Andy Krall is an

628
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: investigative reporter for pro Pablica and author of the new

629
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: book A Death on w Street, The Murder of Seth

630
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: Rich and the Age of Conspiracy. Welcome Too Fast Politics, Andy,

631
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 1: Great to be here. Thanks for having me this. Leonard Leo.

632
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: He's not a good guy, is he. He is one

633
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: of the most influential people that I think most people

634
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: have not heard of. I'm shocked at the number of

635
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: folks out there who don't know the name utter Leo.

636
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: But when I tell them even a tiny bit about

637
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: the things he's done, their eyes go big and they

638
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: sort of gasp, and they sit back in their chair

639
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: and they say, oh, my god, how have I not

640
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: heard about this person? And then I say, well, that's

641
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: what I'm here for. My friend, So explain to us

642
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: how you got involved in this. I mean, I'm sitting

643
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: in my office staring at the computer, wondering how in

644
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: the year or old Lord twenty twenty three, we are

645
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: looking at a conservative supermajority on the Supreme Court that

646
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: seems poised to roll back advancements, a major precedent, a

647
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: whole range of fixtures of modern life in America, and

648
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 1: wondering how this happened. They're wondering how we got here,

649
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:52,399
Speaker 1: How in this time did not just a Supreme Court

650
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: of the United States, but also so many courts around

651
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: the country become these real bastions for conservatives, become the

652
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 1: venues where attorney generals or private individuals, advocacy groups, whatever

653
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 1: can go and try to challenge a firmative action, try

654
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: to challenge abortion, I try to challenge birth control. I mean,

655
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: you name it. And every time I started digging into

656
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 1: these questions, they started pointing me back to the work

657
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: of Leonard Leo. I mean it was kind of shocking

658
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 1: in a sense of like, I didn't think that so

659
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: many of these questions would be answered by looking to

660
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: this one guy. But again that's why I said, you know,

661
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: I think He's one of the most overlooked but one

662
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: of the most influential figures of the last twenty or

663
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: thirty years in this country. And that is what set

664
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: us down the path to looking at them. That is

665
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: what got us interested in this group, the TENEO Network.

666
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: That's the focus on our most recent story. So explain

667
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: to our listeners what this group is. The TENEO Network

668
00:36:55,480 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: is a private and confidential, to use their words, network

669
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: of up and coming conservatives who work in basically every

670
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: business sector, industry, walk of life that you can imagine.

671
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not talking just about the light blue

672
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: blazer khaki tassel loafer set in politics in Washington, d C.

673
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: But I'm talking about people who work in finance, people

674
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: who work in energy, people who work at entertainment and

675
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: media academia across the board. Here, I mean, the way

676
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: to think about the TENEO Network is jo going back

677
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 1: to our friend Leonard Leo. Leonard Leo worked for a

678
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: long time at an organization called the Federalist Society. The

679
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: Federalist Society began as a campus club for conservative law

680
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: students who felt ostracized, who felt left out, who thought

681
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: that everyone on their campus was crazy liberals and they

682
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: needed a place to hang out. So the Ben Shapiros

683
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: of olden day is the Vetch Shapiros of olden days.

684
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: The Charlie Kirks, Yes, two people who actually are members

685
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 1: of the Teneo Network, but we'll get to that. So

686
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 1: the Federal Society, over a span of thirty years, starts

687
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: as a campus club, but actually becomes this pipeline for

688
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: conservative judges, conservative justices, legal minds on the right. I mean,

689
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: it really is the place where all the big legal

690
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: battles taking on things like Obamacare, taking on Row, taking

691
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 1: on I mean, really any major Democratic or liberal policy

692
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 1: out called the last few years get challenged. And you

693
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 1: know where the place right now where five of the

694
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: nine Supreme Court justices currently on the Court have been

695
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: Federal Society members in their lifetime and are very close

696
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: with the organization. So it's this really, this powerful force

697
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: in American politics, in the legal world for conservatives. The

698
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 1: Teneo Network wants to do for the rest of America

699
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: what the Federal Society did for the law. That's the

700
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: most pithy way to put it, and it is it

701
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: is an audacious thing that they are trying to do.

702
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: That's pretty chilling. Yeah, yeah, it is. It's it's it's audacious,

703
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: but they believe that they can do it based on

704
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 1: what they've been able to do with the courts, what

705
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 1: they've been able to do in the legal world. And

706
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,919
Speaker 1: so where does this start, Yeah, it starts around two

707
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: thousand and seven, two thousand and eight. One of the

708
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: co founders of Teno is a fellow named Evan Bear,

709
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: tech entrepreneur, you know, really quick to drop all the

710
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: startup lingo close personal friend of he who shall not

711
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: be named Peter Teal, Yes, yep, working at the time

712
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: in two thousand and seventeen thousand and eight. For Peter Teal,

713
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: they're having lunch at a Baja Fresh. Very important detail

714
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: there right in DC. I love a chain, yeah can,

715
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: and you've got to get the Burrio joined naming there.

716
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: And also I feel like a Baja for us in Washington,

717
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: do you see, because when you go to Washington, you

718
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: want to eat the local food exactly, the regional delicacies exactly.

719
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: You know, Peter Tilt and his underlying ov and Bearer

720
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: complaining about conservatives and complaining about how liberals are so

721
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: much more powerful than they are etcetera, etcetera. And they say, gosh,

722
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: you know, the one good thing we have going for

723
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: us is the Federalist Society or fed SoC as people

724
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: call it. Right, what if we did something like that

725
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: but for tech dudes like us, or for bankers, or

726
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: for friends who work in the media. And so the

727
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: idea germinates there. And also, I said, Peter Teal's name

728
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,320
Speaker 1: sort of president at the creation but actually one of

729
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: the legal co founders of Tenayo was none other than

730
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 1: Josh Holley. Why wouldn't even Yeah, that's just obscure. Well

731
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 1: Cloft lawyer of private practice today a United States Senator

732
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: from Missouri. So the idea begins there. Who has never

733
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 1: lived in Missouri? But sure continue, I guess he lived

734
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: in Missouri when he was a kid, But he doesn't

735
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 1: have a house in Missouri right now. I mean, he's

736
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 1: been a creature of Washington politics for quite a long time.

737
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: But his sister has a country house in the Ozarks,

738
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: so that counts as we all do, right exactly. So

739
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,879
Speaker 1: this group to NEO is sort of chubbing along from

740
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: those humble origins, but it never quite lives up to

741
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 1: it's lofty expectations. That it's going to be the Federalist

742
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: Society for America for everything else until Leonard Leo comes along.

743
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: And Leonard Leo in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen is spending

744
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: a lot of his time advising then President Trump about

745
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 1: how to put more judges on the Supreme Court, on

746
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: the peel's courts, of the district courts. But also Leonard

747
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: Leo is clearly thinking about the long game. He's thinking

748
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 1: about the future. He sees this group to Neo and

749
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: basically says, hey, I think I know how to take

750
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 1: you guys to the next long I think I know

751
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 1: how to actually make this thing work. He's got a

752
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: decent tract record of doing just that, and you know,

753
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: he becomes a much more of a driving force with

754
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: this group, to the point that today he is the

755
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,919
Speaker 1: chairman of the board. He's helping the group rates money.

756
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: He is really trying to take the things that he

757
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: learned from the legal wars and apply them to the

758
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: culture wars large and TENEO is the vehicle to do that.

759
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: So it's a it's a really key part of understanding

760
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: what this really key figure Leonard Leo is up to.

761
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: Right now, give us tangible like, for example, the Federalist

762
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 1: Society did things like it found young lawyers, it nurtured them,

763
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: it created them, and then it pushed them to go

764
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: for judge ships. It you know, it started with cocktail

765
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: parties and it ended with you know, five Supreme Court justices.

766
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: So what is the TENEO group's sort of answer to that?

767
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: There are a bunch of answers to that, because they

768
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 1: are trying to have so much influence across so many

769
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: different parts of American society. So one of them is

770
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: a pretty obvious on, which is getting their people elected

771
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: to higher office. And so you know, there is a

772
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 1: TENAIO member named Will Sharf. He calls Letter of his mentor.

773
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: He has kicked around conservative activism for a number of years.

774
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: He's a lawyer, and he's now running for attorney general

775
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 1: in Missouri. And that, you know, Missouri Tree general has

776
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: been a launching point for such people as Josh Holding, Senator.

777
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,879
Speaker 1: So this is no small thing. And as we've seen

778
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,320
Speaker 1: in recent years, these these attorney generals can actually have

779
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: a pretty big impact from that perch in their states.

780
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 1: So they can't you know, TENNAIO can sort of bring

781
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: along elevate and then you know it's members. The group

782
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: is a nonprofit, so the group isn't like a superpack.

783
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: He can't spend money itself, right, But the idea that

784
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: this is a nonprofit when it really does have a

785
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: political motive is is pretty crazy because that's not what

786
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: profits are supposed to be. Yeah, and you know, they

787
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 1: were very very adamant when we were doing all of

788
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: the fact checking and everything on the story. And then

789
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 1: like they don't bake, don't TENAEO itself does not make donations.

790
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 1: They don't have a pack. You know, they're about education

791
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, but they make donations and kind and

792
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: their members make donations. Will Scharf has donations from Leonard Leo,

793
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: from again TENEOE co founder Evan Baar, from other senior

794
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: people in the group. So you know, it's not like

795
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: Taneo is doling out cash, but it's it's a pretty

796
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: similar thing because Will Scharf can go to his friends

797
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: and say, hey, like support me from my campaign and

798
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: they'll donate. So you know, it's the springboard for people

799
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: to run for office, but they're not paying taxes. I

800
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: think what is important here is that this is being

801
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: set up the same way that like a charity to

802
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: help homeless children, as they're at the same tax structure

803
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: as that five O, one S three D profit. That

804
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 1: is correct. So like you could give money to helping

805
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 1: homeless children, or you could give money to something that

806
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: is the Federalist Society for Everything else. Yeah, you could

807
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 1: give money to an organization that says it's one of

808
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: its goals is to quote unquote roll back or crush

809
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: liberal dominance quote across American life. So should that be

810
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 1: a non I mean, not to get all sticky in

811
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 1: the irs here for a minute, but shouldn't that not

812
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,479
Speaker 1: be a nonprofit? I mean, it definitely seems to walk

813
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: up close to the line when you're talking about crushing

814
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: liberal dominance, when you're talking about elevating young conservatives. I mean,

815
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: doesn't seem the same as helping homeless children. No, it does.

816
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem the same as the Red Cross or

817
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: ye visiting nurses doctors without borders. But right exactly. Then again,

818
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: that you know one thing, I'm glad you brought that up,

819
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,800
Speaker 1: that you because you know, one really important thing to

820
00:45:55,840 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: understand about Leonard Leo is that he has really maximized

821
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: they can the amount of money he can raise into

822
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: nonprofit organizations, so the sort of the charities that we

823
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: are just talking about, and then they're slightly more political siblings.

824
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: These are also known as five odenc force. Leonard Leo

825
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 1: has mastered the art of using these nonprofit organizations, using

826
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: tax exempt organizations to move money around to support people

827
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,240
Speaker 1: who are going to be judges, to in some cases

828
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: support political organizations like the Republican Attorneys General Association. This

829
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 1: is a trademark technique of his that he again has

830
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,760
Speaker 1: done and really mastered for twenty years. At this point

831
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: in TENEO is clearly another piece of the puzzle for

832
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: him and the child. There's an irs that actually has

833
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: the ability to take a hard look at nonprofits on

834
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: the right, the left, wherever. You know this kind of

835
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 1: stuff is going to continue, Yeah, I mean it certainly

836
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: sounds like it. So we have a lot of listeners

837
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: who listen to this program who are curious as what

838
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 1: they can do. What the sort of way back from

839
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 1: something like this is good question. I mean, I think

840
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 1: the first thing to know is to know that this

841
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: thing exists and to understand that the guy who helped

842
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 1: architect the conservative Supreme Court is still very much in

843
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: the game, and that he is looking to extend his

844
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: influence well beyond the courts. You know, a key part

845
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: of what TANEO is trying to do is trying to

846
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 1: have influence in the local level and the state level.

847
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: There's a bit of the piece that we reported about

848
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: how TANEO is mapping out, as they put it, these

849
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: different institutions in big cities. They're looking at Atlanta in

850
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 1: a couple of places in Texas based out of recording,

851
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: mapping out the key institutions and then trying to either

852
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 1: get their own people into those institutions so that start

853
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: to change them, or if there're people are already there

854
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: to let everyone else know, Hey, like we have all

855
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: a bunch of our friends are in the country clubs

856
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: or the newspapers, rotary or whatever in these big cities.

857
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: So if you're someone who cares about this stuff, it's

858
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,919
Speaker 1: a reminder that your local institutions are a big part

859
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: of you know, how this country moves in one direction

860
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 1: or another. And if you care about the direction of

861
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: not just the country writ large, but you know your

862
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: your own town, your city, your state, you know you've

863
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: got to be involved in some of these things that

864
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: maybe they seem parochial, maybe they seem awfully small ball

865
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: compared to the United States Supreme Court, but they do

866
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 1: matter and the people who you know, if you're a

867
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 1: progressive person, then you don't agree with the Conservatives, you

868
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: or the Conservatives are organizing at that local level. That's

869
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: a key part of this story that we've published. So

870
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: you probably want to be organized in your own participating

871
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: and organized in your own cities as well, because the

872
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: other side, if you will, is doing that very thing.

873
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: I want to ask you sort of one last question,

874
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 1: which is how does Peter Teal figure into all of this.

875
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 1: Teal is clearly an intellectual godfather of this organization. He

876
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: was there again, as we said, at the creation of it.

877
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,320
Speaker 1: You know, we didn't find, at least in the reporting

878
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: for this story that he is on the board. He's

879
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: not listening on the board. Well that's something. Yeah, he's not.

880
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 1: You know, his presence didn't seem particularly overt, but I

881
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: would not be surprised if he was, you know, a

882
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: sort of an ally as what they call the sort

883
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: of like non member supporters of the group. And clearly,

884
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: you know a lot of the people that we write

885
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: about in this group are acolytes of Teals. You know,

886
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: this TENO network I found really fascinating because it's a

887
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,439
Speaker 1: glimpse of the conservative vangor. It's a glimpse at young

888
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 1: conservatives who they are, where they are, what their worldview.

889
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: And really it's this more sort of desantist style, kind

890
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: of populist, powerful state, anti woke ideology. It's different from Trumpism,

891
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: if there is such a thing as Trumpism, and it's

892
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 1: certainly different from Reaganism, which is small government at all costs.

893
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 1: And Teal is very much an intellectual leader and a

894
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 1: funder in a lot of ways of that vanguard. Gd

895
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: Vance is a ten NaIO member. Gd Evance, of course, yes,

896
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: is in the videos that we obtained for this story.

897
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: And I personally think J. D. Evans is someone I

898
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 1: know your listeners are watching him, but watch him closely.

899
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: I think he is as much a leader of this

900
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: new conservative vanguard as a Josh Holly or a Desantist.

901
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: And here's a stupid question. I'm always like, like, want

902
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 1: to give these people a chance because I'm an idiot,

903
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: but I'm just curious, like Vance was, I mean again,

904
00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: I want to think the Advance is less evil than

905
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: the rest of them, despite all of his behavior to

906
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: the contrary. All right, that's it. That wasn't a question.

907
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 1: But he's not. I mean it sounds like he's not.

908
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: He's undergone a really fascinating evolution. You know, he is

909
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 1: not the jade evance of yester year. Yeah, of yester

910
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: year of the VC world. I don't think he's even

911
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 1: the jade evance of hill Billiology at this point. You know,

912
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: he really is this sort of anti woke of strong

913
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 1: government conservative kind of you know, there's a populous strain

914
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: in there, but it's hard to see where it goes.

915
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:40,760
Speaker 1: And certainly very much anti woke. You know, him winning

916
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 1: a Senate seat in Ohio, which though it has pushed

917
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: to the right quite a bit, is still a decent

918
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: bellweather for the country, I think very much puts him

919
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 1: on the national map as much as any of these

920
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,800
Speaker 1: other folks who have stepped forward, whether it's de Santists

921
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 1: or Haley, you name it. And you know, I think

922
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: Vance is very much at the Van Guarden. I think

923
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: it is not that sort of feel good populism hillibeliology

924
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: of the past. It is stronger and and a bit

925
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 1: darker than that. It's pretty dark. Yeah, thank you so much. Andy.

926
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 1: I hope you will come back. I hope you'll have

927
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: me back. I love this podcast and it's a pleasure

928
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 1: to be on it. No, Molly jun Fast, Jesse Cannon.

929
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: You know those like defend New Orleans, defend shirts. I'm

930
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 1: going down to marrow Lago and I'm making some that

931
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: say defend Marlago because we're gonna surround the place to

932
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: keep President Trump from being arrested. I love this because

933
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 1: it's so stupid. But also what if we use trappers

934
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: to circule event the Patriot Moat? Everything have to be patriot,

935
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: That's what it says on this four jam to be Patriot.

936
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 1: Remember what we did that interview where Trump wid to

937
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,359
Speaker 1: fill the book, make a moat at the border wall

938
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 1: and have alligators in it. What do you think it's

939
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: going to be at this mote? Do you think like

940
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: they're just going to fill it with some of the

941
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: bis quick from the Omelet station. If it were me

942
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 1: and I was in charge of a moat, I would

943
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:18,839
Speaker 1: put um piranhas in a moat because I feel like, oh, good, good, good, right,

944
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 1: if you're going to have a moat. You might as

945
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 1: well have a really vicious fish in your moat. I

946
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: like this as a career pivot for you, vote interior desider.

947
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: A lot of these Republicans want to take us back

948
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: to the dark ages, and in most ways they're wrong.

949
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 1: But I'm open to moats. Okay, what do we think

950
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 1: you one day get one for your future country house.

951
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: That's right. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics.

952
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to your the

953
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos.

954
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to

955
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 1: a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks

956
00:53:59,360 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 1: for listening.