Speaker 1: You're listening to the Buck Sexton Show podcast. Make sure
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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Everybody, welcome to a special Buck Brief. We're joined by
Speaker 2: my friend Josh Hammer. He's the senior editor at large
Speaker 2: at Newsweek. Also you can listen to the Josh Hammer podcast.
Speaker 2: Appreciate you being with me.
Speaker 1: Josh anytime, Bob, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: Can we just start with him? And what are your
Speaker 2: thoughts as to where the conflict right now with Israel
Speaker 2: and Hamas stands? What are the primary you know, what's
Speaker 2: top of mind for you as we're getting ready for
Speaker 2: this ground invasion to likely happen, and you know the
Speaker 2: US response. Just walk me through. What do you think
Speaker 2: is most pertinent?
Speaker 1: Well, I think what's most pertinent is the fact that
Speaker 1: this thing already feels ridiculously overheated all around the world
Speaker 1: on the domestic front, all the vile you hatred we're
Speaker 1: seeing on college campuses, the Prohamas rallies, disgusting stuff, and
Speaker 1: it really hasn't even started yet. And the IDF has
Speaker 1: been involved in bombing targets inside Gaza where Harmas is
Speaker 1: storing cakes of weaponry and missiles and all of that,
Speaker 1: But the ground invasion hasn't start yet. This thing is
Speaker 1: very far from over. And the million dollar question Buck
Speaker 1: and I suspect one of the numerous reasons that the
Speaker 1: IDF has not actually sent the tanks rolling into Gaza
Speaker 1: yet is what happens on then northern front, where you
Speaker 1: have Hesbala, which is a direct Iranian proxy, the SCHII
Speaker 1: terror militia. They have one hundred to one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty thousand precision guided missiles, is the intelligence community's estimate
Speaker 1: of that. That's like a serious weaponry, and Hesbala has
Speaker 1: a much more sophisticated arsenal than Hamas you know, there's
Speaker 1: not much of a question to whether the IDF can
Speaker 1: handle both, but it's clearly a less than ideal situation.
Speaker 1: And then from an American perspective, obviously we have multiple
Speaker 1: aircraft carrier striker groups from the region now. They are
Speaker 1: there primarily to deter Hesbala and by extension, the Islamic
Speaker 1: Republic of Iran itself. So the real question is what
Speaker 1: if anything, would actually escalate direct American involvement at this point,
Speaker 1: because right now we know we have Jaysock. We have
Speaker 1: you know, hostage evacuation specialists there on the grounds working
Speaker 1: with the IDF. But what I'm you know, what I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about is if hes Bola starts raining down missiles
Speaker 1: into Israel, is that enough to get the US aircraft
Speaker 1: carriers involved. I'm not sure yet, but it's a very
Speaker 1: fluid situation. It's changing day by day. Personally, I just
Speaker 1: can't believe that the ground invasion has actually not actually
Speaker 1: started yet. I suspect the hostages have a lot to
Speaker 1: do with that. Thank god, we saw some more hostages
Speaker 1: released earlier today. But I suspect things are going to
Speaker 1: be very kinetic over the next thirty six to forty
Speaker 1: eight hours.
Speaker 2: What do you make of whether it's Joe Biden or
Speaker 2: you might have seen this a Barack Obama statement that
Speaker 2: he put out this constant reminding that's what they're that's
Speaker 2: even how they will say it, reminding of Israel to
Speaker 2: abide by the laws of war in this response to
Speaker 2: the worst terror attacks since nine to eleven, Like, where
Speaker 2: where is that coming from?
Speaker 1: I mean it's offensive, right, I mean if this notion
Speaker 1: and you know it's funny, Israel is the old country.
Speaker 1: I forgot who said this, But Israel's the only country
Speaker 1: that whenever they get involved in a military conflict, immediately
Speaker 1: they are told you can't actually win that military conflict.
Speaker 1: Literally as soon as Israel suffers an attack and they
Speaker 1: start to go on the counter offensive. It seems like
Speaker 1: the international community and the all the talking heads, you know,
Speaker 1: all the usual suspects in Turtle Bay, in New York
Speaker 1: and Brussels, the European Union, Geneva, like all the usual
Speaker 1: liberal globalist idiots, they immediately start talking about a quote
Speaker 1: unquote proportionate response. Oh, you know, day, are Israel possibly
Speaker 1: violate international law? Well, obviously what we refer to as
Speaker 1: international law should be abided by. But by the way
Speaker 1: international law is, it's not a very straightforward concept. It's
Speaker 1: not like there's like one legislature that codifies international law.
Speaker 1: But you know, the IDF is one of the most
Speaker 1: you know, law abiding, frankly, just above and beyond moral
Speaker 1: fighting forces in the world. I mean, the rules of
Speaker 1: engagement that the IDF has put on themselves. I mean, Buck,
Speaker 1: you know this, but you know better than most in
Speaker 1: our business. The rules of engagement that the IDEF puts
Speaker 1: on themselves Hamstring themselves are really above and beyond what
Speaker 1: virtually any other military in the world does. They literally
Speaker 1: drop leaflets from their planes to civilians in the buildings
Speaker 1: and gaza telling them we are about to bomb here,
Speaker 1: get the hell out. They don't have to do that.
Speaker 1: I mean, according to international law, those civilians there are
Speaker 1: Hamas's fault if they are going to be any civilian casualty.
Speaker 1: So it's ridiculously condescending, honestly, to get back to your
Speaker 1: question there. But unfortunately for Israel, I think it's nothing new.
Speaker 1: It's been this way for a while.
Speaker 2: Now. How do you think the Biden White House has
Speaker 2: responded so far?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean they were strong out of the gate right,
Speaker 1: I mean in those first five to six days. I mean,
Speaker 1: his rhetoric was strong. In fact, I think it was
Speaker 1: so strong that some schools in Israel started as signing
Speaker 1: Biden's speech. I think it was a week and a
Speaker 1: half ago, or so two weeks about this point. It's
Speaker 1: hard to keep track, but he had that first kind
Speaker 1: of big speech from the White House. I heard that
Speaker 1: some schools in Israel started signing that speech in English
Speaker 1: language's homework for English class because Israel were so impressed
Speaker 1: by it. Unfortunately, Buck, you know, for those of us
Speaker 1: who are a little more sober and I you know,
Speaker 1: I dare I say practical with their eyes wide open,
Speaker 1: we knew that things would start to change very quickly.
Speaker 1: And as soon as he started to fly over there,
Speaker 1: you know, the public optics of him kind of doing
Speaker 1: that big bear hug with Prime Minister nets and Yahu
Speaker 1: at Bengorian Airport. There's always strings attached to this. I mean,
Speaker 1: the United States gives Israel a lot of money, and
Speaker 1: in exchange for that, they wanted to try to hamstring
Speaker 1: the rules of engagement of the IDF and basically keep
Speaker 1: them on a short string. I mean, I think that
Speaker 1: one of the many reasons why the IDF has not
Speaker 1: gone into Gaza yet is because the US and laughably
Speaker 1: Qatar is actually serving as a hostage intermediary despite being
Speaker 1: a major funder of Hamas. I think that the US
Speaker 1: and also then Qatar are putting a lot of pressure
Speaker 1: on the IDF to not actually go into Gaza there.
Speaker 1: So it's not great. The rhetoric when it comes to
Speaker 1: Gaza has still been mostly okay, but I think it's
Speaker 1: worth noting that they've said virtually nothing about Iran. And
Speaker 1: you can't talk about Hamas without talking about Iran because
Speaker 1: Hamas has Valla. All these terrorist proxies in the region
Speaker 1: are basically just tentacles of the broader, sprawling Islamic Republic
Speaker 1: of Iran terrorist infrastructure. I've heard virtually nothing about Iran.
Speaker 1: I have no idea what the US is going to
Speaker 1: do in response this when it comes to kind of
Speaker 1: amping up the sanctions, when it comes to cracking down
Speaker 1: on terror financing, cutting off Iranian banks from Western financial institutions.
Speaker 1: Are we going to seize vessels if they're trying to
Speaker 1: ship weapons? I mean, there's all sorts of things. I
Speaker 1: haven't heard anything about that. And then Katar itself, which
Speaker 1: I mentioned is a major funder of Hamas. Qatar Buck
Speaker 1: was designated by the US as a major non NATO
Speaker 1: ally just last year. And like I saw, Anthony Blincoln
Speaker 1: was there meeting with the emir in Doha like a
Speaker 1: week and a half ago. I mean, like, what the hell.
Speaker 1: So the rhetoric is okay when it comes to Gaza,
Speaker 1: but as far as the whole region is concerned, I
Speaker 1: see very little reason for optimism.
Speaker 2: Josh want to come back and ask what you think
Speaker 2: happens if Israel's war in Gaza is successful, which is
Speaker 2: a in which I assume it will be. But it's
Speaker 2: essentially the what next, right, what comes next? I want
Speaker 2: to get into that with you here. But first off,
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Speaker 2: it all right, Josh. So, if Hamas is destroyed, which
Speaker 2: is you know, reigns to be seen and and you know,
Speaker 2: destroyed to what level? But effectively, if Israel goes in
Speaker 2: and does what I believe it should do and is
Speaker 2: trying to do, which is destroy Hamas as a terrorist
Speaker 2: entity operating in Gaza, what happens? Who's in charge of Gaza?
Speaker 2: What do you think the Israeli end state is going
Speaker 2: to be?
Speaker 1: So this is the million dollar question, Buck. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, on my own show, I had a guest
Speaker 1: signer alert today, I actually asked him this very question.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think anyone knows. I mean, I
Speaker 1: hate to say it like that, but I don't think
Speaker 1: anyone has a crystal clear idea as to what the
Speaker 1: next stage is be. What is very clear to me
Speaker 1: at least, is that the Arabs living there cannot be
Speaker 1: permitted to simply go back to the polls. And you know,
Speaker 1: not that these are free and fair elections, obviously, but
Speaker 1: they cannot be permitted to go back and democratically vote
Speaker 1: to elect a party or a group because Hamas was
Speaker 1: democratically elected. In fact, you know, it's it's fairly well
Speaker 1: known that one of the reasons that the IDF has
Speaker 1: equivocated for so many years and has not actually gone
Speaker 1: into eradicate Hamas is that they fear, and this is
Speaker 1: a crazy thing to say, but it's true, they fear
Speaker 1: that if they eradicate Hamas and then let the people
Speaker 1: of Gaza just elect someone else, something worse than Hamas
Speaker 1: will come into place. So I'm not making that up.
Speaker 1: That is seriously a major concern, or has been in
Speaker 1: the past, i should say, of the Israeli security brass
Speaker 1: and the intelligence apparatus. So you know, let's say Hamas
Speaker 1: is cleared, and at that point, if the Israeli security
Speaker 1: establishment agrees with what I said that you can't have
Speaker 1: elections there, my preference would be some sort of either
Speaker 1: annexation or military occupation. Now it's worth pointing out this
Speaker 1: is where the Biden situations is already a major pot
Speaker 1: because Biden has explicitly told Netanyahu not to do that.
Speaker 1: He's explicitly said, do not annex it back into Israel,
Speaker 1: do not reoccupy it, do not do any of this.
Speaker 1: I frankly failed to see what the alternative is. I mean,
Speaker 1: from my perspective, I think Gaza at this point after
Speaker 1: this should look similar ish to the situation in the
Speaker 1: West Bank day in Samaria, where you can have kind
Speaker 1: of a less than fully sovereign government. I mean, the
Speaker 1: Palestinian authority in Ramala is not fully sovereign. The IDEF
Speaker 1: still controls the borders there in the Jordan River valley
Speaker 1: and so forth there. Ideally, if they could install some
Speaker 1: sort of Arab Zionist sort of puppet regime of sorts,
Speaker 1: that would be ideal. But there's I'm kind of short
Speaker 1: of ideas other than that. What I do know for
Speaker 1: certain is that the people of Gaza cannot be permitted
Speaker 1: to simply just go back to the polls, because we're
Speaker 1: gonna have the whole situation all over again.
Speaker 2: If Israel puts enough pressure on Hamas, do you think
Speaker 2: Iran could end up entering this conflict in a more
Speaker 2: effectively as a direct combatant in some way.
Speaker 1: It's a terror, it's a terrifying proposition. Obviously, I think
Speaker 1: they probably will not do so as a direct entity
Speaker 1: for two reasons. One is that they have so many
Speaker 1: sprawling proxies throughout the region. Both Hamas has Bulah up north,
Speaker 1: there are all sorts of Iranian proxies operating in Araq.
Speaker 1: They basically filled the vacuum after the US watched the
Speaker 1: Iraq War and then botched the withdrawal from that. So
Speaker 1: a Rock at this point is essentially an Iranian satropy.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's essentially kind of an Iranian province. And
Speaker 1: then Bashar al Asad himself in Syria is basically an
Speaker 1: Iranian client state. And then you of course have the
Speaker 1: Huthi rebels there in Yemen on the southern tip of
Speaker 1: the Arabian Peninsula that are also, yes, you guessed, did
Speaker 1: an Iranian proxy. So I mean they have proxies everywhere.
Speaker 1: So I don't think that you're going to start seeing
Speaker 1: missiles directed towards Gaizo or Jerusalem from Tehran. I would
Speaker 1: be a little surprised if that were the case. And
Speaker 1: especially you have to consider then that there are multiple
Speaker 1: aircraft carrier striker groups from the United States right there,
Speaker 1: and you know, I mean, here's the thing is Iran
Speaker 1: like a cold, calculating, rational actor.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I mean they subscribe to kind of a you know,
Speaker 1: a zealous kind of seventy two Virgins in Heaven kind
Speaker 1: of theocratic mentality, as do a lot of these Hamas
Speaker 1: has Bowl actors as well. But at a certain point,
Speaker 1: are they rational enough where they know that the aircraft
Speaker 1: carriers in the US will just flat in Tehran if
Speaker 1: they literally start trying to nuke Jerusalem. I mean, I
Speaker 1: kind of presume they're that rational. I could be wrong, obviously.
Speaker 1: I pray that I'm right, though, because that would be
Speaker 1: a truly terrible conflict if they do get involved directly.
Speaker 2: Let's talk more about some of the response we've seen
Speaker 2: here and in the rest of the West, Josh to
Speaker 2: this whole situation. We'll get into that in a second.
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Speaker 2: Chalk Choq dot com, Chalk dot com Now, Josh Anti
Speaker 2: Semitism we all know is all too real and has existed,
Speaker 2: not just doesn't just exist today, has existed, you know,
Speaker 2: for thousands of years of history, going back to the Pharaohs, right.
Speaker 2: But some of the response of the organizations and the
Speaker 2: institutional left, I think has been a little bit of
Speaker 2: a shock to people. What do you make of that?
Speaker 2: Is this just it was always there and people didn't
Speaker 2: want to believe it, or have we entered a new
Speaker 2: era of almost the mainstreaming of anti Semitism as part
Speaker 2: of the hard left, Like, how did we get to
Speaker 2: this place?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not sure that it was kind of
Speaker 1: like a singular kind of on off flipping of the
Speaker 1: light switch. It's really just been a a gradual, gradual descent.
Speaker 1: And you know, the left book from my perspective, started
Speaker 1: to turn on Israel as far back as the nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty seven war, which was the Sixth Day War. It
Speaker 1: was Israel's first war victory after their independence war, which
Speaker 1: by the way, all these wars were defensive. Israel has
Speaker 1: never started a war in its entire history. But after
Speaker 1: the sixty seven war, when Israel miraculously defeated the Egyptians,
Speaker 1: the Syrians, all the invading armies, I think that was
Speaker 1: when this image of Israel is kind of Goliath versus
Speaker 1: the Arabs who were David start to kind of sink
Speaker 1: into the leftist mentality. And then you have kind of
Speaker 1: the decades long rise which folks like Chris Ruffo have
Speaker 1: been working on of kind of critical theory and the
Speaker 1: academy and this intersectional identity politics mentality and this narrative
Speaker 1: has taken place where Israel is kind of the white
Speaker 1: European colonizer, and the Arabs are kind of the colored people.
Speaker 1: And in today's kind of intersectional Olympics, we all know
Speaker 1: that anyone who is white is automatically on the bottom.
Speaker 1: By the way, taken even on its own terms, that
Speaker 1: narrative is complete a utter bs. First of all, Israel
Speaker 1: is actually not majority white. Most Jews living in Israel
Speaker 1: actually are not of European descent. They're actually from the
Speaker 1: Arab countries, countries like Yemen, Iraq, Morocco, Egypt, you name it.
Speaker 1: Second of all, the notion that Israel as a colonizer
Speaker 1: is laughable on its face. I mean, if you really
Speaker 1: want to play that game. Obviously, the Jews by definition
Speaker 1: are the indigenous people of Judea. I mean, that's literally
Speaker 1: where the word Jew comes from. But that's really where
Speaker 1: it started. This got a lot worse, a lot worse
Speaker 1: during the Barack Obama presidency. The Biden presidency, which is
Speaker 1: essentially just the third term of the Barack Obama presidency,
Speaker 1: allow of the same idiots who were in charge then
Speaker 1: are in charge once again.
Speaker 2: There.
Speaker 1: It's just gotten worse and worse. I remember the twenty
Speaker 1: fourteen Israel Hamas conflict. It was already pretty bad. This
Speaker 1: is clearly the worst it has ever been there. Any
Speaker 1: Semitism at this point has spread like wildfire to the
Speaker 1: point of ubiquity throughout the American Academy. Finally, you see
Speaker 1: some people who are not even naturally on the right
Speaker 1: starting to speak up. I mean folks like like Bill Ackman,
Speaker 1: the Hedge funder, and Griffin, I mean any number of
Speaker 1: others who are basically saying I will not hire these
Speaker 1: idiots who are signing on to these statements. Hopefully more
Speaker 1: is done at this point, because from my perspective, the
Speaker 1: only possible way to get back from this is to
Speaker 1: apply market pressure is to basically say, I will not
Speaker 1: donate to these schools, I will not send my kids
Speaker 1: to these schools. I will not hire students from these schools.
Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal had a very interesting op ed
Speaker 1: maybe a week and a half two weeks ago by
Speaker 1: a law professor at cal Berkeley, where the title of
Speaker 1: his op ed was, don't hire my anti Semitic law
Speaker 1: students like these own students. That's the right mentality, right,
Speaker 1: That's kind of what we have to do from here.
Speaker 2: I think, Gosh, I want to come back and ask
Speaker 2: you just what you think needs to happen here going
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Speaker 2: it's it's such you know, it's such such heavy stuff
Speaker 2: and it has been for weeks here. But I mean,
Speaker 2: I I'm optimistic that Israel will accomplish its mission. With
Speaker 2: regard to Hamas and Gaza, I also think it's unlikely
Speaker 2: the war will get much broader. I mean, what what
Speaker 2: gives you? What? What optimism do you find yourself searching
Speaker 2: for these days?
Speaker 1: So the Western powers more broadly have thus far, officially speaking,
Speaker 1: been pretty good on this. I mean not if we're
Speaker 1: including Canada, and Justin Trudeau's a power because he's a
Speaker 1: total commune, has put out some garbage on this, but
Speaker 1: you know, holding Canada aside, the United States, you know,
Speaker 1: the great European powers, you know, the UK, France, Germany, Italy,
Speaker 1: they've all been pretty good so far, and that seems
Speaker 1: to be fairly steady for now. Again, the question when
Speaker 1: it comes to Israel is always for now, because Hamas
Speaker 1: is the most cynical terrorist organization of all time. They
Speaker 1: literally use their own people as human shields to try
Speaker 1: to gin up PR favor. You have all the useful
Speaker 1: idiots at the New York Times we saw last week
Speaker 1: with this disgusting blood libel at the hospital in Gaza.
Speaker 1: So they have this PR strategy orchestrated. But for now,
Speaker 1: for now, the Western power sentiment is holding steady ish
Speaker 1: and I think it's holding steady ish for a very
Speaker 1: simple reason, Buck, which is this was the worst massacre
Speaker 1: of Jews since the Holocaust. I mean, this was a
Speaker 1: day that will forever live in infamy, really not just
Speaker 1: for the state of Israel, but in the mentality and
Speaker 1: the broader mindset of the Jewish people. I mean, really,
Speaker 1: aren't the many Jews in the world, Most of us
Speaker 1: know someone or people who were directly impacted by this tragedy.
Speaker 1: And you know, each day that we go without a
Speaker 1: land invasion, I do worry that the IDF you know,
Speaker 1: is risking kind of public favorite turning against them because
Speaker 1: the memory is a little less fresh. But this was
Speaker 1: so bad, This was so bad what happened. And I
Speaker 1: think Israelis across the entire spectrum from left to right,
Speaker 1: are so unified and what has to be done here,
Speaker 1: that it's going to get done, no matter what the
Speaker 1: short term cost may be. And then here's the kind
Speaker 1: of the optimistic kicker at the end for anyone who
Speaker 1: hopes for any kind of long term reconciliation or at
Speaker 1: least any kind of long term agreement between Israelis and
Speaker 1: the Palatine Arabs getting rid of Hamas has to be
Speaker 1: a part of it. There is no future, there's no
Speaker 1: long term settlement there period with hamas a part of it.
Speaker 1: So getting rid of hamas I think, ultimately does lead
Speaker 1: to this.
Speaker 2: Josh Hammer always insightful, my friend. Appreciate you being with
Speaker 2: us guys. Check out the Josh Hammer podcast and look
Speaker 2: for his pieces in Newsweek. Josh, we'll talk soon.
Speaker 1: Thanks Buck,