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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know about the one night stand thing.

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Speaker 1: I have not seen anything about that in the economic literature.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Bloomberg Benchmark podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Tory Stillwell and economics reporter in DC for Bloomberg News,

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Speaker 1: and I'm joined by my co host Akiko in San Francisco.

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Speaker 1: Hey Hockey, Hey Toorn. It's just you and me. This week,

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Speaker 1: Dan's visiting his parents. Is that right in Australia? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Do you think he's gonna bring us back a koala?

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Speaker 1: I hope so. Koalas are great, platypus is platypie, whatever

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Speaker 1: they're calling are great. So hopefully we'll get some sort

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Speaker 1: of like treats, like when dad brings back a gift

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Speaker 1: from UM. This is the first time you're tuning in.

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Speaker 1: Benchmark is the world most captivating podcast about the global

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Speaker 1: economy and how all of its twists and turns affect you.

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Speaker 1: This week, we're going to be talking about the economics

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Speaker 1: of millennials. Tour. You and I are the perfect people

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Speaker 1: to be talking about this, since both you and I

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Speaker 1: are actual millennials ourselves. I'm twenty eight and a half

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Speaker 1: and tore you just turned twenty one that's not true.

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Speaker 1: I'm but yeah, I think this should be really fun

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Speaker 1: since we have a lot a lot to talk about,

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Speaker 1: a lot of ground to cover. What's start with the

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Speaker 1: definitions first? What actually is a millennial? What's the age range? Here?

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Speaker 1: Different people define it different ways. Generations are kind of

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Speaker 1: a weird construct, but they are useful in kind of

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Speaker 1: categorizing different groups of Americans. So what I like to

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Speaker 1: use is Pew Research Center's definition, and they define it

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Speaker 1: as people born after nineteen eighty and for general purposes,

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Speaker 1: they look at age range eighteen to thirty four. So

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Speaker 1: if you're born after, you probably not a millennial, although

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Speaker 1: that's still up from the debate. What are they called

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Speaker 1: people who are younger? I think they're calling them Generation

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Speaker 1: z um, but who knows, that could totally change. So

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Speaker 1: we've officially run out of the alphabet. Yeah, dance, not

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Speaker 1: a millennial, right, he's got to be older than it's

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Speaker 1: definitely not a millennial. Well, this week the Millennials go

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Speaker 1: Rogue On the Bloomberg Venture podcast, Tori, you and I

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Speaker 1: brainstormed a bunch of myths about millennials, where you are,

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Speaker 1: incidentally Bloomberg's premier expert on this topic. You're an expert

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Speaker 1: on demographics in general, so you can navigate us through

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Speaker 1: the actual numbers and tell us if each statement is

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Speaker 1: actually a real thing or if it's gross misconception. That's right,

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Speaker 1: And I'm probably not an expert, but I definitely love demographics,

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Speaker 1: so it should be a lot of fun awesome. Let's

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Speaker 1: get to it. So millennial myths Number one. Millennials were

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Speaker 1: the hardest hit generation in the recession. For false, I

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Speaker 1: would say mostly true. It's sort of a for debate

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Speaker 1: just because the generation right before the Millennials, generation X,

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Speaker 1: was also super hardenedly hit. But let's talk about what

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Speaker 1: happened to millennials first. A lot of them were either

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Speaker 1: just graduated from college or were in college um when

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Speaker 1: the recession hit, so they probably definitely actually had a

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Speaker 1: really hard time finding jobs. They may have been taking

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Speaker 1: jobs that were below them in terms of education level.

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Speaker 1: You know, you hear about the person who has a

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Speaker 1: degree in marketing or whatever it was, and they took

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Speaker 1: a job making coffee at Starbucks because that's how they

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Speaker 1: could find. That comes with an income hit for many

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Speaker 1: many years afterwards. So they did get that. The generation

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Speaker 1: right above them, generation X, they had homes, they had

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Speaker 1: um money in stocks, definitely to a greater extent than

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Speaker 1: millennials did. Millenials was so pretty young at that point,

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Speaker 1: so they got hit pretty hard too. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: a point to us. Well, I can fly at a

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Speaker 1: to this because you know, I graduated from college in

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine, so that means I was looking for

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Speaker 1: a job in my senior year, which started in the

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Speaker 1: fall of two thousand eight when everything was collapsing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was a nightmare. I was looking enough to get

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Speaker 1: this internship with Bloomberg and our took your office. But

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Speaker 1: that was really my only lead, and if I didn't

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Speaker 1: get it, I don't know what I would have done. Um.

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Speaker 1: Tons of my friends didn't have jobs right out of college,

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Speaker 1: and they did things here and there until they eventually

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Speaker 1: found a job when the economy got better, or you know,

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Speaker 1: they ended up going into grad school. So you know,

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Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, it's crazy.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't graduating twelves and things I've gotten slightly better,

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Speaker 1: but people still having a hard time finding something that

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Speaker 1: they wanted to do, you know, yeah, definitely, all right, Well,

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Speaker 1: I guess that connects to our secondness, um, millennials are

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Speaker 1: forever doomed as a result. Hopefully not speaking as a millennial,

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Speaker 1: but like we just said, there comes with an income

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Speaker 1: hit when you take a job that's at a lower

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Speaker 1: salary active at the beginning of your career. You know,

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Speaker 1: those first few years of your career are the most

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Speaker 1: important in terms of making headway in your income. If

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Speaker 1: you take a job that's five thousand or ten thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars below what you could have gotten in optimal circumstances,

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Speaker 1: that effect can last and it's gonna take you a

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Speaker 1: long time to catch up with that. So at least

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Speaker 1: with their income, they're going to be hurt by that

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Speaker 1: for a few years. Right, So you're saying, like, even

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Speaker 1: though I got a job straight out of college and

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Speaker 1: continued to be employed since then, it's been six years

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Speaker 1: for me since I graduated, I may have started with

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Speaker 1: a lower salary than I otherwise would have had I

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Speaker 1: graduated into a better economy, And so today I could

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Speaker 1: be earning Even today, I could be earning less than

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Speaker 1: I would have had the economy been better when I

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Speaker 1: graduated from college. Precisely, that's exactly the point. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: that's the saying, UM, I hope my managers are listening

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Speaker 1: to this. Let's move on to the next one. Millennials

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Speaker 1: are the most over educated generation in the history of

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Speaker 1: the US. So I don't know about over educated, but

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Speaker 1: millennials are definitely very, very highly educated, more educated than

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Speaker 1: you know, Americans ever have been. So as the numbers

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Speaker 1: here in, seven percent of people who are twenty five

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Speaker 1: to thirty four had some kind of post secondary degree.

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Speaker 1: So this is you know, a two year degree, a

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Speaker 1: four year degree, or maybe a graduate degree. So almost

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Speaker 1: half of the population of these young people had this

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Speaker 1: kind of degree after high school. But that's pretty impressive. Um.

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Speaker 1: This number was at about thirty percent back in the

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Speaker 1: early nine nineties. So just over the past gosh, fifteen years,

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Speaker 1: this number has is in um a lot. Do you

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Speaker 1: think it has anything to do with the recession? Like

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Speaker 1: I said, so, a lot of my friends to re

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Speaker 1: graduated if they couldn't find a job. Instead of just

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Speaker 1: waiting around and not doing anything, a lot of them

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Speaker 1: decided to go back to school. You know, they got

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Speaker 1: additional degrees, like they went into master's programs or maybe

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Speaker 1: PhD programs, and and a lot of people did this.

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Speaker 1: So you definitely see a big bump after the recession

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Speaker 1: in terms of the ratio of people who have post

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Speaker 1: secondary degrees. Interesting, moving on to the next one, Millennials

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Speaker 1: are incapable of the laying gratification and they are not

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Speaker 1: saving for retirement. This is probably my favorite thing to

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Speaker 1: talk about. I love thinking about retirement. Don't know what

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Speaker 1: that means, even though it's at least forty years exactly

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Speaker 1: exactly already planning it out in my head. But I

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Speaker 1: think that this is a really interesting topic just because

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Speaker 1: retire it and and social security is a huge topic

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Speaker 1: for everyone in the US, um you know, presidential candidates

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Speaker 1: are bringing it up, and in my personal experience, I

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Speaker 1: found that millennials have kind of strong opinions about this.

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Speaker 1: So let's let's break it up. Part about saving for retirement,

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Speaker 1: you probably need to have a job to do that.

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Speaker 1: And what we know is that the job market for

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Speaker 1: millennials has gotten much better. You know, if we look

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Speaker 1: at the unemployment rate for people who are twenty five

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Speaker 1: to thirty four years old, you know, so out of college,

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Speaker 1: have been in the labor market for a couple of

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Speaker 1: years now, hopefully it's at five point three percent. So

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Speaker 1: that's a little bit higher than the overall level, which

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Speaker 1: is five point one percent, but still pretty good. So

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Speaker 1: they have jobs. And what we're finding is that the

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Speaker 1: ones who have access to jobs where their employers offer

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Speaker 1: for oh one K plans, they are taking those, so

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Speaker 1: they're actually contributing into their for one case exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: So there's this there's a study last year from the

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Speaker 1: Transamerica Center for Retirement Studies. They actually found that seventy

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Speaker 1: one percent of millennials who were offered for a one

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Speaker 1: case or similar plans took part and contributed a median

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Speaker 1: eight percent of their salaries. And it sounds it sounds,

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Speaker 1: it sounded like a lot to me. It was really

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Speaker 1: surprising to me. But a lot of it has to

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Speaker 1: do with for one case no longer being you have

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Speaker 1: to opt into it. People are being automatically enrolled these days, right,

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Speaker 1: so they are actually saving for retirement, and it might

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Speaker 1: be because they just don't think social Security will be

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Speaker 1: there for them at all. You know, half of millennials

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Speaker 1: don't think that there will be any money for them

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Speaker 1: in the Social Security system by the time they were

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Speaker 1: ready to retire. That number is coming from Pew gosh,

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Speaker 1: that's that's really pessimistic. I don't know. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think I think social security will be around by the

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Speaker 1: time we retire, even if it's kind of in a

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Speaker 1: different form than it is today. Yeah, you're in this

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Speaker 1: second bucket that it's it's about say that the system

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Speaker 1: will only be able to provide them with benefits at

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Speaker 1: reduced levels, and then six percent think that they're going

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Speaker 1: to get the level enjoyed by current retirees, which I

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Speaker 1: think is extremely optimistic. Well, okay, so it is a

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Speaker 1: growth misconception to think that millennials are just blowing all

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Speaker 1: their money on the next fancy Nike sneakers or something

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Speaker 1: they actually are saving for retirement. Let's get on to

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Speaker 1: the next myth. Millennials are not in the stock market. Um,

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Speaker 1: they've shout away from the stock market, and whatever mean

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Speaker 1: receivings they have, they've kept it in cash. Well, I

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Speaker 1: think this connects to what we were just talking about

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Speaker 1: really well, because if if they are participating in these

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Speaker 1: four oh one k plans, the chances are they have

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Speaker 1: some equity in there. Hopefully it's not all bonds, so

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Speaker 1: they probably are in the stock market in some sort

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Speaker 1: of way. Do. We do have evidence. There are several

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Speaker 1: studies that show that millennials say their risk of overse

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Speaker 1: and if they don't want to be in the stock market,

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Speaker 1: but if they're participating in four one k plans, and

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Speaker 1: they probably are. So if we're looking at like, you know,

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Speaker 1: directly manage stocks, probably to a lesser extent. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: it's better to just kind of keep it out of

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Speaker 1: their own control if possible. Exactly. I'm okay with that,

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Speaker 1: leave it to the pros. Okay, let's get onto the

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Speaker 1: next one. Um. Millennials shy away from credit, they don't

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Speaker 1: take on loans. Yes, so definitely after immediately after the recession,

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Speaker 1: there was a ton of evidence that should this. You know,

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Speaker 1: they were plastic shy. I remember even a story trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out what would happen with millennials credit reports

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Speaker 1: because they didn't have a lot of it. They didn't

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Speaker 1: have credit cards. There's just no way. But there there

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Speaker 1: has been evidence that they are gradually taking on more

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Speaker 1: they're gradually using credit cards or taking on more debt,

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Speaker 1: but they're not being super irresponsible about it. You know,

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Speaker 1: We've seen research that shows that they have student loans

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Speaker 1: and they're not if they have a ton of student debt,

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Speaker 1: they're probably not out buying a house and acquiring housing debt.

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Speaker 1: I think what's interesting about the millennials is they definitely

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Speaker 1: have different kinds of debt than probably our predecessors did.

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Speaker 1: They have student loans alba wazoo. But they're not being

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Speaker 1: completely grossly irresponsible in general with credit card debt, and

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Speaker 1: they're probably not hopping into the housing market before they

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Speaker 1: should be. Huh So, in some ways, millennials are more

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Speaker 1: responsible than their predecessors, I would say, In some ways, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I take that old people. Well, let's get on to

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Speaker 1: the next one. Millennials don't want to buy their own

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Speaker 1: homes and they will only rent them, right. I think

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Speaker 1: this is really this has huge implications for the housing market,

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Speaker 1: which is a pretty big pillar of the economy. You know,

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Speaker 1: if we have people that never want to own homes,

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Speaker 1: then they're probably not gonna spend a ton of money

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Speaker 1: outfitting those homes with all the things that you would need,

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Speaker 1: you know, buying washers and dryers and stoves and like

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Speaker 1: all the furniture that you would need to fill a

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Speaker 1: house versus my tiny eight hundred and fifty square foot

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Speaker 1: apartment in d C. But what we've seen in the

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Speaker 1: surveys is that millenials do want to own a home.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've seen estimates ranging from like sixty to

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Speaker 1: eighty percent saying that they would like to at at

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Speaker 1: some point own a home. And you know, they definitely

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Speaker 1: have been behind the curve in terms of doing that

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Speaker 1: putting those those desires into action compared to other generations.

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Speaker 1: But also, like we said, they were hit pretty hard

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Speaker 1: by the recession. They don't have a lot of just

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Speaker 1: extra money laying around, uh for a down payment. So

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Speaker 1: the thinking goes that as the labor market improves, as

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Speaker 1: they get more you know, we get more of them

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Speaker 1: in jobs, they get higher incomes, etcetera, they'll be able

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Speaker 1: to save about money for that down payment and to

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Speaker 1: you buy a home. And we are seeing the household

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Speaker 1: formation numbers slowly start to creep up, and that has

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Speaker 1: great implications for the housing market. Do you think I'll

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Speaker 1: ever be able to buy a home here in San Francisco? UM,

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Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that might depress you.

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Speaker 1: I might need to move about to the East day

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Speaker 1: or something. This is a good one. So we are

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Speaker 1: the Tinder generation and millennials only have one night stands

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Speaker 1: and are consequently delaying marriage and babies, and all they

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Speaker 1: care about is hooking up, and the economy is never

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Speaker 1: going to benefit from the fruits of having a family. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know about the one night stand thing. I

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Speaker 1: have not seen anything about that in the economic literature. Uh,

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Speaker 1: millennials are certainly delaying um when they're getting married and

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Speaker 1: when they have their first child. That age has been

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Speaker 1: creeping up more and more and more. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the longer you wait to have your first child, the

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Speaker 1: fewer children you're likely to have too, So that means

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Speaker 1: eventually a lower birth rate. You know, when you have

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Speaker 1: fewer children, you end up spending. Your children are really expensive,

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Speaker 1: so like that means like less spending. Uh. It also

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Speaker 1: means that over time, the demographic composition of the country shifts,

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Speaker 1: so there are fewer working age people to support retirees,

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Speaker 1: which for you and I, we are eventually going to

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Speaker 1: retire and we eventually will really depend on our grandchildren

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Speaker 1: to support us. So this definitely does have economic consequences. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I see. The mean age of mothers having their

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Speaker 1: first child was twenty five point eight years in twelve

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Speaker 1: and that's up from twenty one point four years in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies. So, like you said, it's been a wide,

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Speaker 1: slow climb up, but it's definitely there. And the interesting

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Speaker 1: thing is, you know whether this is going to reverse

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Speaker 1: at all, because I know a lot of demographers that

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Speaker 1: I talked to chalked some of this up to the recession.

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Speaker 1: And you know, your people are going to be less

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Speaker 1: likely to have children if they don't think that they

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Speaker 1: can pay for them. You know, there's some speculation that

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Speaker 1: as the economy recovers, so too will fertility, and the

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Speaker 1: fertility rate actually does increase for the first time since

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, so maybe there is some credibility

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Speaker 1: to that, but we'll have to wait to see if

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Speaker 1: more years bear that out. All right, this is a

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Speaker 1: good one. Millennials are slackers in the office and they

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Speaker 1: just can't commit to a single job, so they end

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Speaker 1: up job popping. I think it's interesting because it's a myth,

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Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people know friends who

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Speaker 1: who job hop. A lot, you know, only stay a

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Speaker 1: year or two. I personally know people like that, But

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Speaker 1: it's not super been born out in the data. Is

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Speaker 1: the only thing you know, across the US tenure ten years,

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Speaker 1: so you know, the number of years that you're spending

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Speaker 1: at a at a place has been tacking up slowly, slowly, slowly,

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Speaker 1: just by small increments as well, and that may have

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Speaker 1: something to do with the aging of the population. But

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Speaker 1: even when you break it out at age groups and

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Speaker 1: you look to to the age range that includes millennials,

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Speaker 1: they're not Their tenure isn't shrinking by a ton, it's

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Speaker 1: it's basically flat. So there seems to be something a

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Speaker 1: foot because I guess maybe all these anecdotes you here

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Speaker 1: in the media and among friends and stuff can't aren't

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Speaker 1: necessarily wrong, but it just hasn't started to show up

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Speaker 1: in the data yet. I don't know. I think the

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Speaker 1: jury is still out on that one. Well, tour, you

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Speaker 1: and I have been with Bloomberg the whole time since

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Speaker 1: we've graduated from college, so you know, it's been six

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Speaker 1: years for me, how long has it been for you?

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Speaker 1: Three years? Three years, three years for you? And I

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Speaker 1: think I know one other person who's had the same

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Speaker 1: job since we graduated in my class, but everyone else

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Speaker 1: has switch jobs a lot. But that could more be

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Speaker 1: about the specific local economy. I'm in in San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: Like the job market is just so hot for technical

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Speaker 1: talent that it might just mean that, you know, people

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Speaker 1: are switching for newer, better opportunities more often. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: we definitely. I mean, you can't argue that there's more.

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Speaker 1: There's a greater ability to switch jobs more often if

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Speaker 1: you want, you know, with LinkedIn and all other sorts

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Speaker 1: of job search platforms. Indeed, is another one that comes

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Speaker 1: to mind. So if people want a job hop more,

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Speaker 1: it's they're definitely able to. Well, I guess I've been

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Speaker 1: happy with Bloomberg. So fun last one here, Millennials are amazing.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's really funny because I don't think millennials

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Speaker 1: themselves think that they're amazing. I read really we really.

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Speaker 1: I thought we were supposed to be like the ME generation.

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Speaker 1: I read a really depressing report p that came out

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Speaker 1: this month, and millennials, it finds, are far more likely

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Speaker 1: than older generations to say that the terms self absorbed, wasteful,

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Speaker 1: and greedy apply to people in their h cohort um.

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Speaker 1: They're like the self exactly. They so fifty say that

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Speaker 1: the term self absorbed describes their generation, compared with among

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Speaker 1: Gen xers of boomers. Wow, well here's a hypothesis. Maybe

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Speaker 1: they're just more self aware, I mean, and that's not

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Speaker 1: a bad thing. They p has also found that millennials

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Speaker 1: are more accepting of homosexuality, interracial marriage, and hold more

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Speaker 1: positive views of immigrants. So they're very multifaceted. Um, but

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Speaker 1: I think self living is not an inaccurate way to

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Speaker 1: describe them. And that's it for us today. Thanks again

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Speaker 1: for listening to blue Burg Benchmark. We will be back

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Speaker 1: next week and until then you can find us on

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal and on Bloomberg dot com. We are

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Speaker 1: also on iTunes and while you're there, but please take

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Speaker 1: a minute to rapeishifts and more listeners can find it

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Speaker 1: and let us see what you thought of the show.

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Speaker 1: Our Twitter candles are at aki et seven and at

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Speaker 1: POORI so well with one L in the middle. We

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Speaker 1: would love to hear your feedback. Thanks again and we'll

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Speaker 1: see you next week