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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome to the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: This Weekend Podcast with David Gura, Christina Raffini, and Lisa Matteo.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us for today's selection of conversations from

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Speaker 2: the show.

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Speaker 3: You can listen to our favorite discussions right here on

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Speaker 3: the podcast, but also make sure to join us live

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Speaker 3: every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at seven am Easter.

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Speaker 4: We're on Bloomberg Television, Radio, and the Bloomberg Business App,

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Speaker 4: bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, lifestyle,

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Speaker 4: and culture.

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Speaker 2: President Trump is taking a victory lot this morning, following

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Speaker 2: breaking news that Republican incumbent Senator Bill Cassidy failed to

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Speaker 2: secure one of the top two spots in his Louisiana primary.

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Speaker 2: Cassidy has been in Trump's crosshair since he voted to

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Speaker 2: convict the President in his twenty twenty one after the

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Speaker 2: January sixth impeachment while he was a member of the House.

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Speaker 3: President Trump tich to social media this morning, saying, quote,

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Speaker 3: Bill Cassidy, after falsely using his relationship with me during

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Speaker 3: his political career and winning elections because of it, voted

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Speaker 3: to impeach me on preposterous charges that were fake then

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Speaker 3: and now are criminally insane. President continues his disloyalty to

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Speaker 3: the man who got him elected is now a part

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Speaker 3: of legend, and it's nice to see that his political

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Speaker 3: career is over. Joining us now former a Republican Congression

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Speaker 3: advisor Leslie Shed and Democratic strategist Amicia Cross. Leslie, let

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Speaker 3: me start with you, and let's go to Louisiana first

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Speaker 3: and the outcome of that primary yesterday. Bill Casty is

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Speaker 3: Christina mentioned just a moment ago, very much in the

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Speaker 3: sites of the president for a long while, his Health

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Speaker 3: and Human Service as Secretary training his sites on him

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Speaker 3: as well. Displeased with the way that Bill Cassidy, a doctor,

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Speaker 3: has treated him over the course of the last many months.

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Speaker 3: What is your takeaway from the outcome of that primary

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Speaker 3: election Louisiana yesterday.

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Speaker 5: My takeaway is this, I mean, the President can get

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Speaker 5: involved and you know, whatever primaries and elections that he

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Speaker 5: wants to get involved with. He is incredibly popular with

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Speaker 5: Republican voters and he's going to use that power or accordingly,

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Speaker 5: I think whoever wins in this runoff, whether it's Fleming

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Speaker 5: or Leutload, they will absolutely be the next United States

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Speaker 5: Senator from Louisiana. I don't think that is at all

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Speaker 5: a question. But most importantly, I mean, I've got my

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Speaker 5: popcorn ready. I am ready. I am very very ready

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Speaker 5: for the Cassidy Yolo era. You know, those Cajuns are

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Speaker 5: quite feisty already on their own, and when you got

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Speaker 5: a Cajun who's got nothing left to lose, you just

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Speaker 5: know it's going to be really entertaining.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Leslie, I'm just having to come to you just

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Speaker 2: a second, but I do want to get your sex.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of men in their Yolo era, we were talking earlier.

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Speaker 2: David was mentioning Tom Tillis, who had some very strong

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Speaker 2: tweets out. I think it was last night was when

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Speaker 2: I saw them criticizing this redeployment of troops out of

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Speaker 2: Europe and some of the decisions made at the Pentagon.

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Speaker 2: But does that have any impact on the Republican base?

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Speaker 2: Is anybody besides Democrats and maybe a couple Independents listening

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Speaker 2: to these guys.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it depends, right, It depends on the argument,

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Speaker 5: and it depends on the topic. On something like US

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Speaker 5: troops in Europe and people's dislike of RSI. I think

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Speaker 5: that is something that a broad swath of Republicans and

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Speaker 5: Democrats of Americans as a whole weld tend to agree with.

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Speaker 5: So I do think in instances like that, it's very helpful.

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Speaker 5: He's calling out a question. He doesn't fully understand why

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Speaker 5: it is that they've suddenly decide to not deploy these

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Speaker 5: troops to polland why it is we're pulling troops out

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Speaker 5: of Germany. You know, it's Congress's job to get answers

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Speaker 5: on that from the executive branch.

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Speaker 3: We Shel explained something to me. We look at the

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Speaker 3: president's polling, it is extremely low, the disapproval rating extremely high.

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Speaker 3: And yet as we saw in Indiana, as we saw

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Speaker 3: in Louisiana last night, candidates who embrace him or who

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Speaker 3: are embraced by him are seemingly doing very well in

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Speaker 3: these elections. What do you make of that seeming disconnect

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Speaker 3: or discord between two things.

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Speaker 6: Well, I think that those are very different types of races.

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Speaker 6: First and foremost, this has not been termed yet. In

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Speaker 6: addition to that, those are both states that voter for

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Speaker 6: Trump by double digits, not once twice, but in many

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Speaker 6: cases three times. If we're talking about Louisiana. At the

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Speaker 6: end of the day, Americans writ large are very upset

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Speaker 6: about the cost of gas.

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Speaker 7: They're upset that the.

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Speaker 6: Cost of food continues to increase, lack of childcare, you

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Speaker 6: name it, health care expenses shooting through the roof. However,

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Speaker 6: in some of our much more rid states, Trump knows

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Speaker 6: his base. He speaks to his base. These people are immovable,

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Speaker 6: and I don't think that that's going to change what

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Speaker 6: we are and should be paying attention to. More so,

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Speaker 6: is those independent voters, how they're going to come out?

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Speaker 6: Younger voters. Trump did have a stronghold on younger voters

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Speaker 6: in the last election cycle, which surprised a lot of people,

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Speaker 6: But I think that that tide is turning as well.

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Speaker 2: Is this midterms really about turnout? I mean, midterms are

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Speaker 2: always about turnout, but it seems to me, especially some

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Speaker 2: of those demographics you've been talking about and we've been

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Speaker 2: talking about that surprisingly went for Trump the last time.

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Speaker 2: Do Democrats just need them not to show up or

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Speaker 2: do they have to win them over?

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Speaker 6: No, Democrats needs in the show up and they need

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Speaker 6: to win them over. And in large part it's also

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Speaker 6: because of these strict redistricting efforts that you talked about

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Speaker 6: in the last segment. Democrats are going to need every

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Speaker 6: single vote. Yes, I think that there is some enjoyment

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Speaker 6: with the fact that Trump just keeps getting everything wrong.

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Speaker 6: He ran on no more endless wars just you know,

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Speaker 6: walked us into one that could last the next two generations,

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Speaker 6: especially with the reverberating effects. But with that being said,

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Speaker 6: Democrats need the base to come out, but they also

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Speaker 6: need to expand the base. We know that in twenty

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Speaker 6: twenty a lot of voters showed up who had not

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Speaker 6: shown up since the Obama election. We need those same

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Speaker 6: people to come out again. A lot of it will

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Speaker 6: be driven by frustration for some of the economic things

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Speaker 6: we just talked about. But the other thing is you

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Speaker 6: have to have somebody that you believe in, a candidate

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Speaker 6: that people want to support. I think Democrats are shown

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Speaker 6: in a lot of the off yr elections thus far

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Speaker 6: that affordability is the name of the game. They need

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Speaker 6: to run with promises and tactics to move affordability forward.

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Speaker 3: Leslie, We talk about affordability and this is a president

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Speaker 3: who doesn't seem to want to engage with it. Before

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Speaker 3: he left for China, he had that kind of astonishing

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Speaker 3: remark about how that's not front of mine for him

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Speaker 3: as he looks at this war continuing to widen then

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Speaker 3: last a lot longer than he initially said it would.

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Speaker 3: He's not talking about affordability, even if representatives parties say

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Speaker 3: that that's going to be the marque issue for Republicans

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Speaker 3: as well. Is that bleeding through? Is it going to

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Speaker 3: pose a challenge for him? As I ask you this

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Speaker 3: on the heels of that trip to to China where

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Speaker 3: a lot has been kind of thrown up in the air,

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Speaker 3: including the relationship between the US and Taiwan.

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Speaker 5: Well, look, I am certain that Democrats are going to

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Speaker 5: cut up what the President said and use that against

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Speaker 5: him and other Republicans and ads. But you really have

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Speaker 5: to ask yourself, right, don't you want a commander in chief,

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Speaker 5: the commander of the US military to only take US

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Speaker 5: national security interests in mind when he is talking about

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Speaker 5: using military force. That's what he was saying here, That's

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Speaker 5: what he meant. The President has taken substantive actions in

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Speaker 5: order to try to make life more affordable here. He's

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Speaker 5: been lowering taxes in general, a lot of prices of things,

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Speaker 5: including eggs and other stable grocery items have dropped. My

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Speaker 5: favorite thing that he's done so far the Trump accounts.

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Speaker 5: This is something that can help to create generational wealth

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Speaker 5: for young Americans. So the campaign season is just now

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Speaker 5: getting started. We're six months away. That is a lifetime

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Speaker 5: when it comes to campaigns, and I think that once

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Speaker 5: we get out there with ads, with messages, which is

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Speaker 5: remind voters of all of these things that Republicans are doing,

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Speaker 5: it's going to help. And keep in mind, Democrats have

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Speaker 5: no agenda to run on whatsoever. What are they for.

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Speaker 5: It just seems like they're against the president and anything

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Speaker 5: that he is for, even if it was something that

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Speaker 5: they supported before, but now they're against it.

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Speaker 3: We should jump in here, well.

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Speaker 6: Democrats are for health insurance and health coverage that will

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Speaker 6: carry Americans through who won't have to worry about trying

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Speaker 6: to afford prescription drugs versus keeping the light bills on.

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Speaker 6: Democrats are for access to childcare. Democrats are for ensuring that,

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Speaker 6: regardless of where you live in this country, that you

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Speaker 6: will be able to afford housing. Democrats are for not

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Speaker 6: reducing food stamps. We know that those snap cuts across

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Speaker 6: the country have led to hundreds of thousands of people

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Speaker 6: with young kids not being able to feed them. We

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Speaker 6: also know that Americans are crushing under the way of

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Speaker 6: the affordability crisis, a crisis that the President refuses to

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Speaker 6: acknowledge even exists, and has said just over the past

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Speaker 6: few days that he doesn't really care. He doesn't care

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Speaker 6: that Americans can't afford to live, he doesn't care that

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Speaker 6: Americans are pushing this war, he doesn't care that it's

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Speaker 6: extremely unpopular. He doesn't care about the crisis that Americans

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Speaker 6: are dealing with every single day. This is a president

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Speaker 6: who has enriched his family, This is a president who's

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Speaker 6: enriched his cronies. This is a president who developed a

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Speaker 6: tax strategy that would put money in the pockets of

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Speaker 6: the wealthiest Americans, meanwhile crushing out the middle class and

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Speaker 6: eradicating the poor. I think that Democrats definitely have something

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Speaker 6: to run on or watching them do it every day.

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Speaker 2: But I do want to push back a little bit

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Speaker 2: and ask you the question that I ask almost all Democrats.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we just had Representative clark On and I

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Speaker 2: asked her, Okay, so what do you do in response

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Speaker 2: to these things? And she said, well, we're going to

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Speaker 2: protest we're going to make our voices heard. What I

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Speaker 2: hear from even some senior level Democrats is they do

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Speaker 2: not sense a cohesive plan among Democrats. What are you

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Speaker 2: going to do about this? Can you do anything about this?

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Speaker 2: Even if you take back one of these chambers, Can

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Speaker 2: you really stop the agenda of this president?

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Speaker 6: Well, I think we have to think outside the box

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Speaker 6: here because this is more than just the agenda of

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Speaker 6: the president. These voting rights restrictions that we've seen taken

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Speaker 6: in place the majority of those at state level, this

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Speaker 6: is the agenda of also state legislators. Democrats have to

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Speaker 6: move beyond just four year elections and also focus on

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Speaker 6: what's happening in the states. And I also think that

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Speaker 6: for Democrats they have to and it was mentioned I

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Speaker 6: think in your last segment, they also have to look

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Speaker 6: towards what court packing could look like. During the last administration,

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Speaker 6: the Biden administration, he was strictly and stauntally against quart packing.

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Speaker 6: The Supreme Court has showed us what they can and

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Speaker 6: what they will do up to an including erosion of

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Speaker 6: civil rights. And as a black person, I for one,

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Speaker 6: am extremely bothered by what we're seeing there, but also

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Speaker 6: that the same fight that my grandparents lived through in Mississippi.

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Speaker 6: Is the fight that we're fighting right now.

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Speaker 3: Letsie, I want to ask you about this issue with

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Speaker 3: the president rishing himself, and I'm going to raise the

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Speaker 3: reporting that we were talking about earlier in the show

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Speaker 3: that our colleagues report on the ethics release that the

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Speaker 3: President made a little earlier this week showing he made

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Speaker 3: thirty seven hundred trades in the first quarter. Just a

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Speaker 3: huge number, even outside the Office of the Presidency, a

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Speaker 3: number of people who are investors' professional investors on Wall

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Speaker 3: Street saying that's just an incredible amount of trades to

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Speaker 3: have made in a one quarter period. Does it make you,

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Speaker 3: as Republican all uneasy to see that the president maintaining

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Speaker 3: the White House, maintaining the President doesn't have direct control

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Speaker 3: of his investments. But this is an extory amount of

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Speaker 3: trading happening, yes, involving a lot of companies with whom

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Speaker 3: the president deals interacts with on a regular basis.

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Speaker 5: So you think the President of the United States is

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Speaker 5: what like checking his Robinhood app in between his meetings

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Speaker 5: with the King of England and getting briefed in the

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Speaker 5: situation room. Look, it's no surprise the president is wealthy.

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Speaker 5: Everybody knows that. I've worked for wealthy officials before, and

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Speaker 5: just like other wealthy people, they own stocks, and you

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Speaker 5: know what else they do. They have experts that manage

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Speaker 5: their money, that are making these stock trades, that are

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Speaker 5: helping them decide. That's how they get wealthy, and that's

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Speaker 5: how they stay wealthy, not by managing these things on

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Speaker 5: their own. This is incredibly common. The idea that the

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Speaker 5: president is like trading stocks is some kind of a

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Speaker 5: sign of corruption. It's just it's a silly argument. I've

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Speaker 5: been dealing with him for years. When you deal with

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Speaker 5: other officials that have money, it's it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: So you don't have any problem with members of Congress

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Speaker 2: or people in the executive brandanch being able to trade stocks.

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Speaker 5: No, not at all. In fact, I used to work

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Speaker 5: for one of the quote unquote most prolific stock traders

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Speaker 5: in Congress, and I can tell you right now that

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Speaker 5: he doesn't know how to trade his stock. He has

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Speaker 5: no idea what's going on in that portfolio. Stocks get traded.

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Speaker 5: This is something that people that have money do. It's

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Speaker 5: how they make their wealth. It's how they grow their wealth.

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Speaker 5: By not doing this themselves by having experts manage it.

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Speaker 3: Leslie sched former senior advisor, senior staffer, current political advisor,

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Speaker 3: thank you very much for joining us on the Senator.

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Speaker 3: Thanks to Amisia Crosswold for joining us here in New York.

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Speaker 3: Gat to see you on set. And Christina. As I said,

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Speaker 3: I think the interesting thing about this, No, the President

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Speaker 3: probably doesn't have his robinhood abound, but he does wield

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Speaker 3: an incredible amount of power to influence our perception of

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Speaker 3: these companies how they're doing, both directly and indirectly. Having

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Speaker 3: Jensen Wong sit on the plane is surely a sign

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Speaker 3: that he is embracing the efforts of nvideo. Stay with

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Speaker 3: us for more on Bloomberg this weekend.

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Speaker 2: Right after this this past week, as the President travel

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Speaker 2: to China, a group of executives from the world's largest

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Speaker 2: tech companies went along for the ride, literally gaining high

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Speaker 2: level access to officials in both the Trump administration and

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Speaker 2: the Chinese government.

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Speaker 3: On Thursday, ethics filings made public by the President revealed

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Speaker 3: he made thousands of purchases of tech stocks from some

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Speaker 3: of the same companies. Digging into the numbers, Bloomberg senior

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Speaker 3: Equity reporter Jessman here with us on set in New York.

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Speaker 3: Just great to see you. I'm drawn to a quote

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Speaker 3: in your piece by Matthew Tuttle. I've talked to him before.

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Speaker 3: He's kind of an ETF guy, and he says to you,

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Speaker 3: this is an insane amount of trades. As you leafed

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Speaker 3: through those hundred pages of filings, what stood out to

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Speaker 3: you immediately about what.

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Speaker 8: Was there in And this is a story I worked

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Speaker 8: on with Bill Ellison in our Washington, DC bureau as

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Speaker 8: well as other reporters in DC. And so when you're

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Speaker 8: looking at this amount of trades over thirty seven hundred,

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Speaker 8: typically you wouldn't see that for someone's personal account, even

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Speaker 8: though it is of course President Donald Trump free work exactly.

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Speaker 2: The other part that flags to me was that that's

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Speaker 2: like over forty per day.

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Speaker 8: And also if even if you include just trading days,

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Speaker 8: it would be even higher than that, probably in the

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Speaker 8: fifties sixties. And so when you're talking to people who

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Speaker 8: are running rias, and I want to be clear here

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Speaker 8: because you don't know exactly behind this, even if it

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Speaker 8: is an RIA that was making those transactions. Because the

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Speaker 8: Trump Organization said that they have an independent third party

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Speaker 8: that's managing this, and that it is an automated process.

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Speaker 8: But when you're speaking with people who are managing money,

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Speaker 8: especially decades on Wall Street, for even high net worth individuals,

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Speaker 8: you normally don't see that frequency and that type of

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Speaker 8: volume of transaction, even just in a quarter alone. Typically

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Speaker 8: they have things set in place to where you wouldn't

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Speaker 8: have to make that many transactions because your portfolio is

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Speaker 8: supposed to be more bulletproof despite what happens if there

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Speaker 8: are gyrations in financial markets.

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Speaker 3: If we're dig in to this more readis statement here

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Speaker 3: from the White House. They dismissed questions about potential conflicts

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Speaker 3: David Ingle's saying the Trump only acts in the best

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Speaker 3: interests of the American public. He added, there are no

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Speaker 3: conflicts of interest. We have spokesres with the Trump organizations

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Speaker 3: saying the presence holdings are independently manages mentioned by a

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Speaker 3: third party financial institutions of control over all of these

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Speaker 3: investment decisions, with trades executed through automated processes. That aside,

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Speaker 3: what kind of trades did we see here? We mentioned

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Speaker 3: those tech companies at the top. What stood out to

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Speaker 3: you in terms of what was actually traded well.

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Speaker 8: These are typically companies that the Trump administration is well

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Speaker 8: known to have business dealings with, especially on the back

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Speaker 8: of his visit in Beijing, especially with Nvidia is obviously

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Speaker 8: listed in here, as well as Meta, Microsoft, Amazon, as

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Speaker 8: well as you see other things with Costco and Dollar Tree.

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Speaker 8: But what's interesting about this, and you go through the filings,

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Speaker 8: it's hard to distinguish whether specifically for some of these trades,

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Speaker 8: whether it's specifically toward a stock, whether it's municipal bonds.

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Speaker 8: Because we've seen other disclosures from this past year were

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Speaker 8: say in the fourth quarter of last year, it was

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Speaker 8: around three hundred and eighty different trades, So you went

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Speaker 8: from that at the end of last year, many fewer,

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Speaker 8: but still elevated, right if you think compared to what

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Speaker 8: people typically would do in high net worth individuals for

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Speaker 8: those types of movements there. So it's hard to distinguish

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Speaker 8: specifically if it was unloading specif stocks, whether it was

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Speaker 8: Nvidia or Meta. But even if when I'm speaking with

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Speaker 8: people managing money, some of it doesn't quite make sense

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Speaker 8: because some of those stocks and how they've performed since

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Speaker 8: the end of March, say Amazon on a stellar run,

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Speaker 8: especially in April. I mean, we've seen it up double

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Speaker 8: digits at this point, but then meta a bit more mixed.

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Speaker 8: So say, if you are talking to people managing money,

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Speaker 8: why not just buy and hold something? And so maybe

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Speaker 8: that raises a lot of their questions because they're wondering, well,

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Speaker 8: is it more like an algo? Is it multiple money

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Speaker 8: managers and financial advisors? We don't necessarily know that.

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Speaker 2: Just okay, I'm gonna step back and ask a series

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Speaker 2: of stupid questions. Why don't we know who or what

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Speaker 2: is exactly making these trades? Is this legal? Is it precedented?

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Speaker 2: And there's information that doesn't show on disclosures? What is that?

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Speaker 8: Typically when you see prior presidents, it's normally a blind

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Speaker 8: trust and an independent financial right.

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Speaker 2: I think Obama did treasury bills and a diverse bied

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Speaker 2: mutual fund, and Biden apparently didn't try it stocks right.

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Speaker 8: And Bill Clinton also had a blind as well as

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Speaker 8: President Herbert Walker Bush. So what's interesting here. There was

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Speaker 8: a stock act I believe it was back in twenty twelve,

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Speaker 8: and it would be triggered, particularly by a certain amount.

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Speaker 8: And President Donald Trump is the first one to do that.

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Speaker 8: So he started disclosing that We started seeing that beginning

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Speaker 8: in last August. So most of these as far as

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Speaker 8: if it triggers it by a certain amount, so he's

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Speaker 8: the first one to do that, and most of it's

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Speaker 8: been more toward municipal bonds. I mean, we saw that

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Speaker 8: toward the end of last year. This is a little

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Speaker 8: bit more questioned because we're wondering, well, is it still

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Speaker 8: municipal bonds that they're doing, And you can't necessarily when

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Speaker 8: you're going through all of this sea specifically whether this

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Speaker 8: is a derivative, whether this is a stock, whether this

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Speaker 8: is a bond, So there are those questions about just

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Speaker 8: the volume of those trades, what exactly is going on there,

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Speaker 8: and if it's it is automated process like the Trump

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Speaker 8: organization was saying. But people still are wondering because you

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Speaker 8: don't normally see that in high net worth individual accounts.

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Speaker 2: You can't see the exact timing right well.

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Speaker 8: There actually is. On February tenth, there was a number

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Speaker 8: of transactions with some of the big tech names, Nvidia included,

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Speaker 8: and then about a week later, obviously there was different

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Speaker 8: deals and things being made within videos. So that was

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Speaker 8: something that reached some eyebrows among people on Wall Street.

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Speaker 8: But again, we still need more information because it doesn't

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Speaker 8: necessarily dictate and lay out all of that in these

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Speaker 8: regulatory filings.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to make an observation, a long winded one,

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Speaker 3: and then you can comment on it if you'd like.

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Speaker 2: That is comfortable, Here we go.

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Speaker 1: You have a.

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Speaker 3: President now who is meeting with these executives in a

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Speaker 3: way that past presidents haven't, talking about these companies, in

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Speaker 3: some cases, getting the US government involved in private companies

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Speaker 3: in the way that we haven't seen either. I think

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Speaker 3: of Intel in particular, were I his independent investor, operating

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Speaker 3: in some capacity away from the president, he may not

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Speaker 3: be directing me to make trades, but it is not

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Speaker 3: difficult for me or for you or you to ascertain

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Speaker 3: sort of country, what companies he's interested in. Where you

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Speaker 3: see movement as a result of that. It's just there's

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Speaker 3: a novelty in the projection of what might be of

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Speaker 3: interest to this president. And obviously you're able to see

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Speaker 3: the reaction as he talks about these companies in the

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Speaker 3: market in real time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you're a stock guy, you see him

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Speaker 2: getting onto the plane with all these exacts, you just

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Speaker 2: like start clicking.

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Speaker 3: Through right, it's not even telegraphed. It's just it's their

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Speaker 3: plan and simple for you to see.

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Speaker 8: And you see based on these meetings that he's had

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Speaker 8: with all of these executives, especially on the back of

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Speaker 8: what was going on with his visit in Beijing. And

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Speaker 8: again to make it clear, we don't know that President

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Speaker 8: Donald Trump was actually making these transactions to or whether

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Speaker 8: his sons were doing that as well, because we know

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Speaker 8: his two older sons oversee a large swath of his

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Speaker 8: financial portfolio. But they're making it clear by the Trump

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Speaker 8: organization that this is a third party and supposed to

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Speaker 8: be an automated process. But to your point, David, when

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Speaker 8: you're thinking about the meetings that the Trump administration has

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Speaker 8: with these big executives, that's why some people on Wall

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Speaker 8: Street more so are wondering, well, what do we not know?

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Speaker 8: When you're the president of the United States, you have

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Speaker 8: so much at your disposal. They're wondering, well, what information

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Speaker 8: do we not have and what type of trades were making?

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Speaker 3: Can I get one last question on that point? So

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Speaker 3: you brought the fact that I think this and somebody

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Speaker 3: said this to you, this at Adam Sarah and said

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Speaker 3: this to you wondering sort of how these trades met

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Speaker 3: it out in the end, were they positive or negative?

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Speaker 3: My question to you going forward is what don't you

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Speaker 3: know that you want to know going forward and what

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Speaker 3: are you going to be watching for here as we

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Speaker 3: get to future quarters of releases from one part two.

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Speaker 8: Coming right and Adam Sarhan fifty Park Investments, I mean

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Speaker 8: he made that point because he said I would like

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Speaker 8: to see the account was this negative or positive by

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Speaker 8: the end of this, because when I brought up metas

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Speaker 8: mixed performance, I mean, it doesn't quite make sense because

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Speaker 8: it wasn't at least like that was a.

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Speaker 2: Great trade if you did stockade right.

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Speaker 8: And then the other thing Adam was pointing out as

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Speaker 8: well as many others, you can't really say anything illegal

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Speaker 8: happen based on these filings.

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Speaker 2: You have to be very careful.

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Speaker 8: With that because again it doesn't specifically disclose all of

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Speaker 8: this wood stock, whether all of this was municipal bonds.

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Speaker 8: You have to be careful when you're looking at these

436
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 8: regulatory filings. We're just seeing there's a massive volume of

437
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 8: those trades, and that's what people are wondering what's going

438
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 8: on beneath the hood there.

439
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 2: Jess Manton, great job on this story, the whole team

440
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 2: at Team I have seen this absolutely everywhere. It ran

441
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 2: through Twitter like wildfire and really good old school work.

442
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:51,679
Speaker 3: Yes, and great to have you here on set with

443
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,120
Speaker 3: us in New York. Thank you for coming in. We're

444
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 3: monitoring a volatile morning for global markets. As present, Trump

445
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,639
Speaker 3: ramp sup pressure on multiple foreign policy fronts, tracking multiple

446
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,440
Speaker 3: flash points simultaneously. In the Middle East, a widening conflict

447
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 3: with Ron is triggering sharp fluctuations in Brent crude, for instance.

448
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,879
Speaker 2: In Latin America, we've got severe new economic sanctions that

449
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 2: are directly targeting Cuba's primary revenue streams. Meanwhile, high stakes

450
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:17,119
Speaker 2: trade friction with Beijing continues to complicate multinational supply chains.

451
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,680
Speaker 2: All right, joining us now to break down the economic

452
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,400
Speaker 2: and geopolitical fallout of all of that. I hope she's

453
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,399
Speaker 2: had her coffee. Is Missy Ryan, national security reparterer at

454
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,680
Speaker 2: the Washington Post. She's also at the Atlantic, Missy. I

455
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 2: want to start with just when you look at briefly

456
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 2: this trip of the President to China and the fact

457
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,960
Speaker 2: that they are he is using this Taiwan aid package,

458
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,640
Speaker 2: the second package, as a bargaining chip what is your

459
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,199
Speaker 2: take on that? And this is that in itself a

460
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,240
Speaker 2: win for she coming out of that trip.

461
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 9: Yeah, that is absolutely a win for she. Even just

462
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,880
Speaker 9: putting that on the table obviously is provoking a lot

463
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,120
Speaker 9: of concern in Taiwan, and I think for US partners

464
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 9: across Asia, it really goes to show that the United

465
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 9: States is not necessarily going to stick to its traditional

466
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 9: alliances and is willing to at least consider renegging on

467
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 9: the military support, the political and military umbrella that is

468
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 9: provided to countries that rely on a US counterballance to China.

469
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 9: So he may not follow through with that, and you

470
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 9: would think that he would have actually made a deal

471
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 9: in China if he was going to. But certainly it's

472
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:35,360
Speaker 9: not good news for Taiwan.

473
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 3: See I'm curious as you watched this trip unfold and

474
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 3: heard all of the comments about Iran. Of course, the

475
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 3: prelude to these conversations that took place in Beijing was

476
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 3: another summit between the Foreign Minister of China the Foreign

477
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 3: Minister of Iran. What you walked away from in terms

478
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,159
Speaker 3: of the role that China is playing now and is

479
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,439
Speaker 3: prepared to play in trying to ameliorate or solve this

480
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 3: conflict in the Middle East.

481
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 9: Yeah, my impression was that China is not really interested

482
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 9: in using a lot of political capital to end this war.

483
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 9: You know, it's not clear. You know, China does has

484
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 9: relied on Iranian oil. Obviously, China has an interest in

485
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 9: maintaining global flows of commerce. At the same time, what

486
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 9: there is only so much leverage that China has over Iran,

487
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 9: given that this is an existential situation for Iranian leaders.

488
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 9: So my impression was that, you know, China, I think

489
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 9: desires an enter this conflict, but you know, they're not

490
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 9: willing to go to the mat on WASH's behalf, especially

491
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 9: considering that in some ways this war does benefit China.

492
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 9: You know, it actually lays bare some of the military

493
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 9: challenges that the United States has and arguably makes it

494
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 9: harder for the United States to solidify this rebalancing to

495
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 9: Asia and the kind of military shifts that the United

496
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 9: States wants to do in order to counter act Chinese

497
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 9: influence in the Pacific.

498
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 2: If it's Asia, we were just talking about it, Missy.

499
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 2: I know you've covered several of these anticipated attempted pivots

500
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 2: to Asia. I do want to ask you about the

501
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 2: broader picture a little bit so. In April you wrote

502
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 2: with some of your Atlantic colleagues that the Pentagon was

503
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,400
Speaker 2: maybe not giving the president the full picture of the war,

504
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 2: and then on Friday we have the President getting into

505
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 2: it with David Sanger from New York Times saying that

506
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 2: the papers covers of the war was treasonous. My question

507
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 2: is that improved at all? Does the president know how

508
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 2: the war is really going? And to the American people.

509
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 9: It's a really great question. You know, the president we've

510
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,360
Speaker 9: known since his first term that he doesn't consume intelligence

511
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 9: or I think, you know, other kinds of information in

512
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 9: the same way as other presidents have. You know, every

513
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 9: president has different preferences, of course, but in terms of

514
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:02,239
Speaker 9: the you know, lengthy dense intelligence briefings that you know

515
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 9: that the PDB briefers have typically done, he doesn't have

516
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 9: that same appetite for that information. You know, we know

517
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 9: that he's relied on these videos that the Pentagon has produced.

518
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 9: At the same time, you know, he has I think

519
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 9: now been asking harder questions because the war isn't going well. Yeah,

520
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 9: but you know, the Pentagon, I will say, the Pentagon,

521
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 9: from my vantage point, in terms of their public information,

522
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 9: does really seem to be trying to present a favorable

523
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 9: picture of this war to an extent that is arguably

524
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 9: misleading in many cases.

525
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 2: We've only got about thirty seconds, and I'm not just

526
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 2: trying to put you on the spot, but I do

527
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: want to get really quickly your take on these troop

528
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 2: redeployments out of Europe. We have an initial announcement and

529
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 2: now it seems like trip's going to be coming out

530
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 2: of up Poland as well as Germany. How is this

531
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 2: good for American security?

532
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 9: I don't think it is good for American secure, at

533
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 9: least to the extent that it sends a message to

534
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 9: Russia that the United States is not committed to Europe.

535
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,479
Speaker 9: Now Europe is taking significant steps to bolster its own

536
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 9: arsenal to get NATO in a different place, in a

537
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 9: more prepared place. But the United States, it's more symbolic

538
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 9: than practical, I think, and I do think that it

539
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 9: remains to be seen whether it happens. I mean, the

540
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 9: discussion of Polange shows how complicated this will be permanent

541
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 9: troops out.

542
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 2: Missy.

543
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 3: Always great to speak with you, Missy, Ryan of the Atlantic,

544
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 3: Thank you very much for the time on this Sunday

545
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 3: appreciate him.

546
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 2: Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend.

547
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 10: Right after this, our next guest will graduate from college

548
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 10: in just four weeks.

549
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 3: But THEO Baker is not suffering from senior witis, that

550
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 3: condition of pre commencement care freeenness that I can only

551
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 3: imagine is easier contract among the palm trees on the

552
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 3: California campus where THEO is still a student. His first book,

553
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 3: How to Rule the World, An Education in Power at

554
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 3: Stanford University, hit store shelves on Tuesday.

555
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 2: All right. It chronicles the prize learning reporting THEO did

556
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: for Stanford's student newspaper, reporting that led to the resignation

557
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 2: of the university's president. And the book is a gimlet

558
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 2: eyed look. Yes, that expression comes from David Gera at

559
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 2: the academic institution that continues to be a training ground

560
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 2: for the tech elite who play an outsize role in

561
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 2: our lives.

562
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 3: Stanford has made a faustian bargain with Silicon Valley. THEO rights,

563
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 3: one that has enabled its meteoric ascent and allowed for

564
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 3: its corruption. THEO joins us now here in New York.

565
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 3: Great to see you, Congratulations hoisteda live there we go.

566
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 3: You grew up in a milieu of powerful people. I'm

567
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 3: going to allow that. When I lived in DC, I

568
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 3: remember seeing you as a kid with your parents, Peter

569
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 3: Baker and Susan Glasser at a center for a New

570
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 3: American Security event. You were there in a blazer, you know,

571
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 3: at probably the age of like seven or eight, but

572
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 3: you tagged along and met a lot of folks who

573
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 3: are powerful people in the world of Washington. How is

574
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 3: power different? How does it manifest itself differently on the

575
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 3: campus of Stanford or in Silicon Valley generally?

576
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 11: Yeah, no, it's a great question.

577
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:06,239
Speaker 2: You know.

578
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 11: I came out to Silicon Valley thinking I was going

579
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 11: to do the exact opposite thing from DC. I was

580
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 11: going to go three thousand miles away and be a

581
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 11: coder and kind of fell into the family profession by accident.

582
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 11: But you know, I very quickly arrived and discovered that

583
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 11: there was a sort of secret inside world afforded only

584
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 11: to those identified as the next trillion dollar startup founders.

585
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 11: And so these teenagers are applied with yacht parties and

586
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 11: slush funds and the sort of excess that you know,

587
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 11: feels like it's something out of a satire and yet

588
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 11: in reality is is exactly the product of a system

589
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 11: in which teenagers are a valuable commodity to monetize.

590
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 2: That's so interesting. You said, when you got to Stanford

591
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 2: everything looked perfect. Why does that matter as well? And

592
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 2: does that extend to the student body. Are they trying

593
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 2: to look perfect? Or is it more about existing in

594
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 2: the perfect place and having the perfect resume and getting

595
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: that perfect job.

596
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 4: Yeah?

597
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 11: No, I mean this is exactly the thing that Stanford,

598
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 11: which really is Silicon Valley's theater school, it's training ground.

599
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 11: This relentless focus on perfection, on appearance is sort of

600
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 11: I think the best way to explain the entire institution.

601
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 2: You all looks maxing, academic maxing. I don't know what else.

602
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 11: So well, look, if you learn how to say the

603
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 11: right words, you can raise pre idea of funding. You

604
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 11: know where someone will give you a million dollars and say, hey,

605
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 11: if you make a company with it, call me. And

606
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 11: so the reward to looking really good is accruing the

607
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 11: sort of power that teenagers very rarely get to wield.

608
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 3: You write about the coziness the school has had to

609
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 3: Silicon Valley, the importance of intellectual property, the professors there

610
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 3: realize the worth of that. Many professors and administrators have

611
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 3: availed themselves of that there were very rich members of

612
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 3: the faculty at Stanford. Talk a bit about that coziness,

613
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 3: if you would, The way that this institution, perhaps more

614
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 3: so than many other academic institutions in the United States,

615
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,959
Speaker 3: is really part and parts of a larger kind of

616
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 3: industrial theme.

617
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 11: Absolutely. I mean, Silicon Valley wouldn't exist without Stanford. Much

618
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 11: of it was created on the university grounds. In fact,

619
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 11: if you just took the value of the companies that

620
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 11: have offices on Stanford Land, it's something north of six

621
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 11: trillion dollars in terms of total value. There's a professor

622
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 11: who's known by the moniker of Professor Billionaire because he's

623
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 11: made over twenty billion dollars by investing in his students' companies. Right,

624
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 11: And so understanding this no boundaries relationship goes a long

625
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 11: way to explaining how both the money and the power

626
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 11: you know, that have seeped into Silicon Valley make their

627
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 11: way onto campus. But also the sort of cutting corners

628
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 11: mentality that has you know, in so many ways infected

629
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,719
Speaker 11: a number of the students that I arrived with, you know,

630
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 11: seeing them take on this tech ecosystem for themselves.

631
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 2: All right, we're talking about Stanford, We're talking about everything,

632
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 2: but we also do want to talk about the reporting

633
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 2: that you did that scrutinized the work of Stanford is

634
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 2: now former president. First of all, when you sat down,

635
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: because we both are your parents, I said, didn't you

636
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 2: learn anything from your parents? Why did you want to

637
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 2: go into journalism? And you said you actually didn't. And

638
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 2: then this started with a tip, So talk us through that.

639
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 11: Yeah, no, I'm a completely accidental journalist. I joined the student.

640
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: Happens the best of us, Buddy, I was a ballet answer.

641
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 2: You know, No, it's a terrible thing.

642
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 11: And yet you know, I fell in love, of course,

643
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 11: over the course of freshman year with you know, the

644
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 11: ability to actually find a story and do reporting that

645
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 11: that I thought mattered to my community. This reporting on

646
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 11: martesse Levigne revealed allegations of research misconduct in several papers

647
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 11: that he had co authored over a significant period of

648
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 11: time before becoming the president of Stanford. Ultimately, by the

649
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 11: end of the year, as I report for the first

650
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 11: time in this book, he was ousted by a unanimous

651
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 11: vote of his own board of trustees. And several major

652
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 11: neuroscience studies were retracted as a result.

653
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting as you're reporting all of this

654
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 3: out kind of pushback that you get from folks who

655
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 3: knew him, knew of him, suggested that he had a

656
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 3: sterling reputation. In effect, you should watch yourself as you're

657
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 3: doing this, and that kind of manifest itself. Most significantly,

658
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 3: I guess in letters that you got from legal counsel

659
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 3: saying these allegations areun true. You should publish this. It's

660
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 3: scurless here you are, like not even twenty Yeah, that's

661
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 3: away having to navigate this this world. How did you

662
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 3: find your way do that? I think a lot of

663
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 3: us think of the quaintness of a college paper, but

664
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 3: you had a lot of mighty at you're just those

665
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 3: There were lawyers that you and the paper had as

666
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 3: you went through this.

667
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 11: Yeah, thank god. You know, the Stanford Daily has been independent.

668
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 11: It was as of fifty years before I arrived. So

669
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 11: we had editorial control and there were probono council as

670
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 11: you say, who volunteered their time to you know, review

671
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 11: our work and to keep us safe as we published,

672
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 11: which obviously it was essential to this work. Mark tesse

673
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 11: Levine hired Steve Neil, who was the chair emeritus of

674
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 11: Cooley sort of the dominant Silicon Valley firm. He had

675
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 11: formerly represented Charles Keating Junior and Elizabeth Holmes, and he

676
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 11: began sending me letters soon after my eighteenth birthday about

677
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 11: trying to stop my future reporting from coming out. But

678
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 11: you know, I'm grateful for the team, and you know,

679
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 11: I'm grateful that these stories have emerged into the public record.

680
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 2: All right, So you're graduating, and how many weeks?

681
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 11: Gosh, I think it's a little over three weeks now,

682
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 11: have you.

683
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: Done all your homework? I know you're here on a Sunday.

684
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 11: I do have an assignment for sleeping dreams I have

685
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 11: to turn in after this.

686
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 2: Of course, I'm not digging to that.

687
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 3: We're talking about the right another time.

688
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 2: Look, it's a very hard time. It seems to me

689
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 2: to be a young person right now. And I just

690
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 2: want to ask you broadly. Are the kids all right?

691
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 2: How are you guys doing. Do you feel like you're

692
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: going to find your place?

693
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: Well?

694
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 11: Some kids are some kids aren't, you know. But this

695
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 11: has also been interesting, right. I came on campus right

696
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 11: at the beginning of the AI rush and at Stanford

697
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 11: in particular, this has been a crazy time. Chat GPT

698
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 11: came out two months after we arrived, and now as

699
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 11: we graduate. You know, some people have learned how to

700
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 11: make a meteoric fortune off of this. They have. You know,

701
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 11: the guy who taught me how to shotgun a beer

702
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 11: freshman year dropped out six months after he started. His

703
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 11: company was valued at over a billion dollars. But for

704
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 11: a lot of people, the latter has been sort of

705
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 11: drawn up, taking away these starter positions.

706
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 3: Not about a minute left. It's a book about Stanford

707
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 3: and your experience. They're both doing all of this reporting

708
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 3: and just digging into the academic life there on that campus.

709
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 3: Are there or is there a broader lesson to be

710
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 3: drawn about an institution like Stanford in American life today?

711
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

712
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 11: I mean, Stanford is the vanguard of so many trends

713
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 11: that influenced the rest of higher education. You know, many

714
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 11: of the things that begin out there, including the sort

715
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 11: of corporatized university, have filtered out to various degrees. So

716
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 11: I think understanding what's happening, you know, in the middle

717
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 11: of Silicon Valley's training ground where so many of the

718
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 11: great technologies that affect all of our lives are being shaped.

719
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 11: Is essential to understanding how the next Elizabeth Holmes or

720
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 11: the next Sam Bateman free comes to be.

721
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 4: Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend. Right

722
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 4: after this, welcome back to Bloomberg this weekend, Lise Matteo

723
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 4: alongside Christina Raffini. And you guys know millennials, right, you

724
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 4: grow up up watching these iconic TV dads. Do you

725
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 4: remember Philip Banks, Fresh Person.

726
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: Bel Air?

727
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 4: Yes, Carl Winslow, Family Matters. They're like those quintessential thing

728
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 4: as American.

729
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: I think they were like my age, and I think

730
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: of them as so old. But here we are. This

731
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 2: is where we are, right, American fathers, but in our

732
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 2: heads older and you got to a point, especially the

733
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 2: TV dad, where you were allowed to be an older man.

734
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 2: Well that might be changing a little bit because millennial

735
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 2: men are really thinking about what it means to look

736
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 2: good at any age. As Chris Rouser writes for Bloomberg, quote,

737
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 2: as my dad told me, when you retire, you don't

738
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 2: just become a different person. You're the same guy, just

739
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 2: in a new scenario. And I know I'd like to

740
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 2: enter that scenario. Feeling and yes, looking as good as possible.

741
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 2: Chris joins us. Now, so, first of all, how's your

742
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 2: dad doing with his aspirations of millennial hotness? Or I

743
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 2: guess he's older, but.

744
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 7: My dad is not worried about his hot span, which

745
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 7: is what we're talking about.

746
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 2: Hot storpan is the phrase.

747
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 7: And he read the story was like hot span okay,

748
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 7: And I was like, well, it's like you know, for

749
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 7: people like baby like at middle age. But yes, he's

750
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 7: doing great. He's very healthy. And that's one of the

751
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 7: morals of this story, is like actually staying healthy through

752
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 7: your retirement and beyond, like will make you feel better

753
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 7: and like incidentally look better.

754
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 2: How much of this is image and then how much

755
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 2: of it is functionality because I know a bunch of

756
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 2: women who all of a sudden their forties are like,

757
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: I'm lifting weights. But it's less because we want to

758
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 2: look hot. I mean, we all want to look at

759
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 2: but it's more like we want to be able to

760
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 2: be mobile longer in our lives. Yeah, yeah, So talk

761
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 2: us through the balance there.

762
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,439
Speaker 7: Well, that's like a really interesting point that you raise.

763
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,439
Speaker 7: So this story is about men at midlife because women

764
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 7: at midlife have been so forward thinking about this for

765
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 7: much longer, and also under societal pressures that men are

766
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 7: only kind of recently in pop culture being put under.

767
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 7: I know, like, yes, thank, it's so nice to be here.

768
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 2: It's terrible, you'll love it here.

769
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely loving. Yeah.

770
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 7: So, like because of the obsession with longevity science, which

771
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 7: became health spam, which is exactly what you're talking about,

772
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 7: like saying we fit and healthy into your old age,

773
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 7: so it's actually like a nice time to be alive.

774
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 7: There has become this huge influence from like Manosphere podcasts

775
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 7: and all this stuff for men to suddenly look at

776
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 7: themselves and see themselves in pop culture aging through forty

777
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 7: and fifty and like having different expectations of how we

778
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 7: move through the world, how we look and all that.

779
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 7: And so there's like a lot of medicine and money

780
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 7: behind it. As men are finally like, oh wait, I

781
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 7: I'm not supposed to give up when I get near retirement.

782
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 7: I'm supposed to keep going. And I myself like really

783
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 7: was just like hat it in my head. I'm like,

784
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 7: retirement is for Margarita's, it's not for counting Macro's.

785
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 2: I love that, and I will seems to be in

786
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 2: cursive on a sign somewhere.

787
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 7: But yes, right, And I feel like I have to

788
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 7: call out David Gura because you guys talked about this

789
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 7: story when I came out.

790
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 2: Very uncomfortable talking about this, Yes, do you.

791
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 7: Go to the gym?

792
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 3: I'm not going to answer for you.

793
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 7: So funny his face was like the emoji that's just

794
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 7: two dots in a straight line. You guys were like,

795
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 7: how do you feel about having to be hot into

796
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 7: your sixties?

797
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 2: He's like, do you go to the DM David Gerro

798
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:38,959
Speaker 2: But no reaction, Like.

799
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 7: I relate right, Like there's a guy at my gym

800
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 7: who's like, must be in his sixties. He looks like

801
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 7: Tarzan incredible, and all my friends are like, I want

802
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 7: to look like that guy when I'm that age.

803
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 4: And I'm like, but you're saying it's more than just

804
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 4: a like this is a lot of money, Like how

805
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 4: much money are these men spending?

806
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 2: We're talking about plastic surgery. I mean we're talking about

807
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 2: a whole bunch.

808
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 7: Yes, So this story I talk to people who do

809
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 7: plastic surgery, who surgeons, and for people who see plastic surgery,

810
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 7: hair transplants is really big now yeah, and then there's

811
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 7: all the like peptide science, like you know, the lifespan

812
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 7: stuff that is kind of pretty experimental at this time.

813
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,479
Speaker 7: But there's a lot of concierge doctors that are coming

814
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 7: up sort of just to prescribe you these hot you know,

815
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 7: like medications that are sort of like trendy right now.

816
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: It's the awareness of things that men can do in

817
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 2: a way that to your point, women have known about

818
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 2: and have felt obligated to do for much longer, and

819
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, something men are having to spend

820
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 2: money on.

821
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 6: Well.

822
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 7: Ozempic was a big social unlock, right like ozembic and

823
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 7: all the glp ones, because you like, you couldn't hide

824
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 7: what like a radical change in your in your body,

825
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 7: and celebrities also started talking about it, so then everybody

826
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 7: kind of started talking about it and it wasn't there's

827
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 7: things shameful about it, And then that extended to something

828
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 7: like hair transplants were like also can't really hide that, you.

829
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 2: Know, and also men are talking about celebrity.

830
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 7: Especially had John Cena got a hair transplant, he was like,

831
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 7: I was fans used to make fun of me, and

832
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 7: I just got tired of it, and I got hair transplants.

833
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 4: But then you look at like a Tom Cruise and

834
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 4: Brad Pitt like they look amazing, but we don't know.

835
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 2: Do some googling, there are some changes that have happened

836
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 2: with them as well. I mean, so what's the takeaway?

837
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 2: Part of me karmically thinks this is great and you

838
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 2: all should suffer along with us, And then honestly, part

839
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 2: of me is a little bit sad because it is

840
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 2: a lot to have to deal with. You know, you

841
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,439
Speaker 2: should be able to embrace the later half of life

842
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 2: health aside, and not care as much about your image.

843
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: Is there a concern that this is going to make

844
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 2: people miserable?

845
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 7: I hope not. I mean, the way I started this

846
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 7: story was I was like, when I retire, I want

847
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 7: to be like Galadriel and Lord of the Rings and

848
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 7: diminish and recede into the west and no one will

849
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 7: see me again. And I think about whether I'm desirable

850
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 7: or anything like that. And then by the end of

851
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 7: the story, I talked to so many people who had

852
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 7: been really taking care of themselves through their men and

853
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 7: women through their sixties into their seventies, and me on

854
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 7: and the people who've made decisions to start taking care

855
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 7: of themselves for whatever reason, often for health, sometimes for looks,

856
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 7: sometimes for both. Those people were so much happier and

857
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,439
Speaker 7: you know, and one of the doctors that got into

858
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 7: this concierge medicine practice, I talked to doctor Wesley Spiro.

859
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 7: He was like, I used to be an emergency room

860
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 7: doctor and I was dealing with people who would come

861
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 7: in with type two diabetes and renal failure in their

862
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 7: sixties and seventies because they didn't know, like they didn't

863
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 7: know that they needed to be taking care of themselves

864
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 7: or that anything was wrong. And it wasn't like I

865
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 7: want to look like a Marvel superhero when I'm seventy.

866
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 7: It was like, I just want to be happy, the

867
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 7: best version of myself and be the best version of myself.

868
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 7: And so actually, I'm hoping that this eye opening stuff

869
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 7: with surgery without is actually going to help us all

870
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 7: be in kind of a better quot.

871
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 2: Literally or a metaphorical owning. Chris Drouser, thank you so much.

872
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