1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: Hello over one. I'm John Hammond. Welcome to next question. 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Hey that's my line. I'm Katie Kuric, and yes, welcome 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: to next question. We might as well just dive right 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: into my conversation with the star of the new comedy 5 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: Confessed Fletch, the one and only John Hamm. Hello. John, 6 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: I'm so happy to see you, so nice to see you. 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: It's been a minute. I know it has been a minute, 8 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: and you have been everywhere you've been, h you've been 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: hawking the ship out of this movie. Yeah, you know, 10 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: it's we we it's a it's a labor of love. 11 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: We we we put a lot of time and sweat 12 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: equity into making it and we're very, very proud of it. 13 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: And it's you know, it's the little engine that could, 14 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's in theaters and on streaming 15 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: as as we speak, and people are really enjoying it. 16 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: Those tomatoes are are all fresh and uh and the 17 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,959 Speaker 1: audience whatever, you know, good. So you know, we're very 18 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: pleased because obviously know when you when you take on 19 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: a character or a franchise or a film, that's sort 20 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: of holds its place in the pantheon of especially for 21 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: people my age, you know, as a as A as 22 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: A one of their favorite movies. You know, you don't 23 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: want what you don't want to do. There's two things 24 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: you don't want to do when you don't want to 25 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: ruin it, but too you also don't want to do 26 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: some sort of pale limitation of it. So I never 27 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: really wanted to do a Chevy Chase impersonation in this film. 28 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: And we knew. Greg Mottola and myself really kind of 29 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: worked hard to try to figure out what's what's our 30 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: version of this, And all we really did was take 31 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: it back to the books, and we just decided, like, 32 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: why don't we just make a pretty faithful adaptation of 33 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: of the novels because they're really excellent kind of mystery novels. 34 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: And I feel like the mystery is having a moment 35 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: at this at this time, with with the success of 36 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: things like Knives Out and Only Murders in the Building, 37 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: Death on the Nile, and what have you, It's like 38 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: there's there's I think people are find that those kinds 39 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: of stories are tremendously satisfying. Were you a big fan 40 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: of the original, Because I have to be honest, I 41 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: I love Chevy Chase. But somehow you missed it. I did, okay, John, 42 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: I missed it. It was, it was. It was a 43 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: huge presence in my life. The first film. Yes, everything 44 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: about it so quotable. Chevy is so funny and so 45 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: particular and so um Chevy. It's unimpeachably good. I think, Oh, 46 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 1: it's Dr Rosen Phoenis. I'm just here to check out 47 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: fanwicks file, Dr Rosen Rosen. I'm here to get home 48 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: running again. I get Dr Rosen, I I want to 49 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: check out verserens. Dr Rosen. We also didn't want to 50 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: get into a nostalgia you know, situation where you know, 51 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: Chevy's in it and I play a son or some thing. 52 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: You know. We just decided to kind of truly reboot 53 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: it and and take it in a different direction. See 54 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: this is my theory. I think the victim interrupted an 55 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 1: art theft, the thief got spooked, balked her over the head, 56 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: and then ran. No amate, just a little thing, please listen. 57 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: I used to be an investigative reporter of some repute. 58 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: I could be very helpful in this whole matter. I 59 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: used to play the trumpet in high school. I never 60 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: offered advice to Miles Davis shut up. It's a very 61 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: confusing combination of commands. So you went back to the books, 62 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: which how many are there. There's something like ten or 63 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: eleven Fletch books. And then there's a spinoff character called 64 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: Flynn who who is actually in the book confessed Fletch, 65 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,119 Speaker 1: but for rights reasons, we were not allowed to use 66 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: that character or that name, so we kind of spun 67 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: him off into the character played by Roy Wood. I 68 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: know Ryan Reynolds tried to do this, Stave Chappelle tried 69 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: to do it. I mean, this has been something that 70 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: people have tried to do for a long time. So 71 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: why why you know? I think I think part of 72 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: it is what I was saying. It's really hard to 73 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: tackle something that exists so prevalent in the minds of 74 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: people for my generation. Really uh and and and we 75 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: were just fortunate enough or dumb enough to to kind 76 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: of land on this idea of like, what we don't 77 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: have to do the slapstick joke a minute, wigs and 78 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: teeth and funny names and funny voices version of this. 79 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: We can actually just take it, take it back to 80 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: the original stories. And we got the blessings of Gregory 81 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: McDonald and his estate. Uh, it was not easy. And 82 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: they you know, they're they're rightfully so very protective of 83 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: Gregory's work. And I got you know, I got a 84 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: lovely note from his son after he saw the film 85 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: and he just said, you know, my dad would have 86 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: been so proud. It was. It was really great and 87 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: you really captured the spirit of the book. Well, it 88 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: was a lot of fun to watch. And I guess 89 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: greg Matola is that night Matola Matola. Um. I don't 90 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: know much about him, but I could envision a lot 91 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: of behind the scenes laughs and camaraderie. So what was 92 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: it like to make it with with First of all, 93 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: I love you, well, John is his own case, so 94 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: you know, we we have a history that's that people 95 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 1: can recognize obviously, but Gregor I actually have his My 96 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: third project I've done with greg I worked on a 97 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: movie with Larry David and he called Clear History, and 98 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: then we did Keeping Up with the Joneses with Dolphin 99 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: Akis and Galgado and uh, and this is the third one. 100 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: And you know, this is the third time I've shot 101 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: in Boston as well. So it was a tremendous amount 102 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: of fun to make the movie. That's always a plus 103 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: when you're making a comedy if you're actually having fun 104 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: doing it, which also for me and Greg as as 105 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: producers on it as well. There's a ton of other 106 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: things you have to worry about. But once we got 107 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: shooting and once we got a rolling, it was it 108 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: was fun and um, and that's, uh, that's what you're 109 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: kind of going for, is is that shorthand of of 110 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: having having a good time. And Greg had worked with 111 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: Marcia Gay before, and I'd obviously worked as Slatter before, 112 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: and I think both of us knew com McLaughlan and 113 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: and uh, and then we were lucky enough to get 114 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 1: people like Eugene Merman and Roy Wood and Aiden my Arie, 115 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: people that are just fun and funny on their own. 116 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: And I had I imagined you all had a hard 117 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: time kind of at times, especially is at Roy keeping 118 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: a straight face during some of these scenes. Roy, it 119 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: was always funny, too fun for me to make Roy 120 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: break because he's so serious and he's a wildly funny man, 121 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: but in this character he was so serious and believably so. 122 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: He plays the detective that's out to try to solve 123 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: the case, and it looks like the character I play 124 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: fletch Is is guilty, so that's the fun of that. 125 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: And I think his sidekick is so funny. Mary plays 126 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: his sidekick, who's sort of the young trainee or something, 127 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: and she's very funny. We were we were lucky to 128 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: get her. But yeah, we had Annie Mamolo, who I 129 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: worked with on Bride'smaids, came along and does a very 130 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: funny small part. So we just we had We were 131 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: really lucky to get the people we got, and we 132 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: had a blast making it. I think of you and 133 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: your quote unquote body of work. Let's see how James 134 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: Liptony I can get. But you know, obviously, Madman, I mean, 135 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: we'll we'll talk about that in a second. But you 136 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: are a very talented comedic actor and you love comedy. 137 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: I thought you were so funny and thirty rock. But 138 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: tell me about sort of your preference to enjoy doing 139 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: funny better. Well, I'll say this about that. You know, 140 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: I'm I'm lucky enough to have credibility on both sides 141 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: of the aisle, so to speak. So I have, you know, 142 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: been been given the incredible good fortune to to have 143 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: done work with some really talented people on the dramatic side, 144 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: as well as the comedic side. And part of that 145 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: was getting famous doing such a serious, um, you know, 146 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: sort of brooding, kind of dramatic work as Don Draper, 147 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: that I could then pivot off of that, and instead 148 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,119 Speaker 1: of choosing the things that were offered to me off 149 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: of that, which we're basically versions of the same thing, 150 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: to actually be able to pivot and say, you know, 151 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: and actually like maybe do something a little goofier and funnier. 152 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: And and then once people were able to see me 153 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: and that world too, then I could I could really 154 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: kind of ping pong back between both sides. Did you 155 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: worry And this is such a cliche question, but I 156 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: do wonder, And I have asked other actors who have 157 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: really established such an iconic presence in a role that 158 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: that it would be hard to break out of of 159 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: the Don Draper mold after that show was over. You know, 160 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: I think I I think I recognized that kind of 161 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: possibility and actively sought to play things against that that stereotype. Honestly. 162 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: That's why, you know, if if I would have done, 163 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: you know, another role where I played kind of super 164 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: serious and period or what have you, I think I 165 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: would have been lost any credibility in in in the 166 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: comedic world, which is you, as you rightfully point out, 167 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: as I'm a fan of it, and most of my 168 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: friends are in that way, and you would love it. 169 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: I like doing it, So it was definitely a conscious 170 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: decision to make sure that I wasn't locked into doing that. 171 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: You know, I think the fact that you really struggled, 172 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: I mean this, the Struggling Artists moniker actually really fit 173 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: for you because it took you a long time to 174 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: get noticed and to start having things click for you. 175 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: You went to the University of Missouri right then you 176 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: started out. You went back to your old high school 177 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: and taught, which to me is like a series in 178 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: and of itself John Ham teaches. What what did you teach? 179 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: I taught acting, in public speaking and improv So I 180 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: taught the entire eighth grade and then ninth through eleventh grade. 181 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: We're elective. Did you have fun doing that? I had 182 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,599 Speaker 1: a blast, And I mostly I went back because I 183 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: recognized that that school had done so much for me 184 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: and served in in in keeping me engaged and keeping 185 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: me on an achievement oriented path, and and it kept me, 186 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: you know, saying basically in a in a time when 187 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: my my life could have very easily gone in several 188 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: different directions, and and provided me with the artistic input 189 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: in the in the in the spark that I uh. 190 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: In many places, whether it was athletics or or the 191 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: theater or academics, it was all. It was all you 192 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: were encouraged to succeed and to achieve at all of 193 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: those things. And I just found that to be a 194 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: really healthy and wonderful place to be. So I really 195 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: wanted to kind of have that experience for another generation 196 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: and I was fortunate enough to to really be able 197 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: to do it. Ellie Kemper being the most visible of 198 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,719 Speaker 1: of my former students, but but I have quite a 199 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: few of them that I'm that I'm tremendously proud of. 200 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: And So you went from teaching at your alma mater 201 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: and then you you took off for Hollywood, and um, 202 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: it was it was a slog right, John, Yeah, you know, 203 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: it's it's it's a very strange. Uh. You know, it's 204 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: a very strange transition to be to be, you know, 205 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: to drive west from St. Louis, Missouri and then find 206 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: yourself in Los Angeles and really realized that not only 207 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: are you a very small fish in a very big pond, 208 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: but that pond is a small part of a larger ocean. 209 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: And uh and you don't really have any kind of 210 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 1: survival skills whatsoever. So it was it was a real tricky, 211 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: uh and challenging transition to realize that, you know, okay, 212 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: this is this is not gonna this might not happen overnight. Um, 213 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: did you take acting classes once you got there there? 214 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: I enrolled in a class or two and uh, method 215 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 1: not quite, but I I did, you know, I was 216 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: in class with a lot of working actors and a 217 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: lot of people that I recognized from TV and uh 218 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: and and you know, it was it wasn't inexpensive. So 219 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,719 Speaker 1: I had two or three jobs, you know. It was 220 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: just it was hustling and it was surviving, you know. 221 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: And then and I knew a little bit about that. 222 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: That's what's kind of my go to, you know, ethos 223 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: for a long time. So uh. Fortunately I had a 224 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: really good group of friends that kind of were all 225 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: in the same boat, like Paul. Well, Paul was in 226 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: a very different boat. It was very nice, nicely appointed 227 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 1: luxury liner at that point. But uh, but but Paul 228 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: was there too, and Paul was proved. You know, it 229 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: was sort of the proof of concept, like, look, and 230 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: you all knew each other from St. Louis or new 231 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: because you were both from St. Louis. You connects from 232 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: Kansas City. I'm from St. Louisa. I knew Paul because 233 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: his roommate at the University of Kansas was the older 234 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: brother of a friend of mine from high school. So 235 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: he would come back for holidays and weekends. What have you? 236 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: Um and uh and yeah. So Paul was sort of 237 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: like there as the example of like, oh, well, maybe 238 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: it could happen. You know, it doesn't you don't have 239 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: to be the son of somebody famous or I guess 240 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: you kind of do now it seems like but uh, 241 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: nepotism wasn't quite what it is now. Back then, you 242 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: had this idea that if I'm if I'm not in 243 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 1: it or if I'm not making it by the time 244 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: I'm thirty, I'm gonna pack my bags and figure out something. 245 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: I gave myself five years and at that point that 246 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: would have been I was twenty when I moved to 247 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: l A. Would have been a you know, sixth of 248 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: my life. When I have you seventeen percent of my life. 249 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: And uh, that's enough time. I thought to like establish 250 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: some kind of plan, put it into action, see if 251 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: it works. And and it was. I've I turned thirty 252 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: on the set of my first movie. I was paying 253 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: my bills being an actor. I had paid off my 254 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: student loans. I wasn't working in a restaurant and bar, 255 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: attending for the first time in a decade, and uh, 256 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: and I was like, Okay, I'm um, this this seems 257 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: to be working. You know. In the first three years 258 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: that I was in l A, I auditioned for tons 259 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: of things, but it didn't. Nothing hit And did you 260 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: do small roles or no? I mean nothing. I was 261 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: an extra. I was an extra in the pilot of 262 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: the Practice, you know. I had a featured extra role 263 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: in Ally mcbeil where I didn't any lines. I was 264 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: just the guy at the bar. Nothing substantial and nothing 265 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: that was able to pay my bills for years and 266 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: finally I got, you know, a part, and I had 267 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: to talk and then I a little more and a 268 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 1: little more. But what was your first The first thing 269 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: that I had that was that was of any consequence 270 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: was a role on a TV show. It was on 271 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: NBC on Friday nights called Providence and it was remember 272 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: that kind of curitas. Yes, that was the first thing 273 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: I learned is how to pronounce the stars very important, beautiful, lovely, 274 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: lovely lady. And I know you remember me, bartender, what 275 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: are you doing here? Fireman by day? Bartender by night. 276 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: I had a one time guest spot on that that 277 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: probably paid me more money than I had made the 278 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: entire year. And they asked me to come back for 279 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: thirteen episodes. Uh. And then they asked me to come 280 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: back for seven more episodes. And I was like, this 281 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: is this is the gift that keeps on giving. This 282 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: is just great. Uh. And then I got another part 283 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: and smaller things here and there, And then I got 284 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: a series regular on a lifetime television show called The Division, 285 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: starring Bonnie Badelia and Taji Hanson and and Nancy McKee 286 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: and Lisa Vadal, Tracy need him, uh, Amy, Joe Johnson. 287 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: We had a great cast. No, I did not do 288 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: group but buy my own tickets chance of winning. Remember 289 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: that woman that bought those tickets last Yeah, she's supposed 290 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: to collect to the whole office and buy the tickets, 291 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: and then she said she bought one more that was 292 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: supposedly the one that won all the money. Yeah, I'm 293 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: not even going there a lot of a lot. And 294 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: it just got a little bit easier to put push 295 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: the rock up the hill every day. And so that 296 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: led to you know, more and more opportunities and movies 297 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: and things and pieces and parts and whatever, until I 298 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: was finally in the running for a show called matt Men, 299 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: And that was in two thousand five. That was ten 300 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: years after I moved to uh to l A. And 301 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: it only took ten years to be an overnight success. 302 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: When we come back, John shares the funny story of 303 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: how he found out that he had landed that gig. 304 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: Was it hard to secure that part as Don Draper 305 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: where other people considered because to me, sitting across from 306 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: you and just knowing you a bit, I mean, I 307 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: feel like you were born to play them. Yeah. You know, 308 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: there's I've heard rumors of who was being you know, 309 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: looked at any everyone from Thomas Jane to I don't 310 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: know who else, But you know, there was no I 311 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: had auditioned seven or eight times. I think you know 312 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: that nobody wanted me as I was not a known quantity. 313 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: I wasn't a name. I wasn't a star. I wasn't 314 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: a you know, a TV proven thing whatever, even though 315 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: I had worked for the past five years or so consistently. 316 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: But you know, sometimes it takes time. And uh, And 317 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: I remember I got the part in an elevator in 318 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: um Tribeca at the Gaswort Hotel after my final audition, 319 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: and we had I had drinks with the on the 320 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: roof of the Gangs of Wort with all the ecutives, 321 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: and I was kind of like this, No, no one's 322 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: told me I have this yet. I don't know what's 323 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,959 Speaker 1: going on here, but I'm I'm being treated like I 324 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: have it, but I could I'm not. I haven't seen 325 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: a contract. What's what's happening. And so finally we're on 326 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 1: the on the elevator going down after these the string 327 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: session and the and the executive terms to me and says, 328 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: you know you got the part right, and I said, no, 329 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: I didn't thank you for telling me. No one explicitly 330 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: told me this, So it was it was it was 331 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: that that was the day, and I happened to be 332 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: riding in the elevator with a very famous German soccer 333 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: star named Franz Beckenbauer and the elevator. She just told 334 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: me this. I had no idea he was on the 335 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: elevator or who he was. But the doors open and 336 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,719 Speaker 1: they were all these people like like waiting and cheering 337 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 1: and everything. I was like, Wow, they really did a 338 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: number here. This is really cool. Of course they were 339 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: waiting for the superstar football man. That's funny and what 340 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I just still love watching that man. Such 341 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: an incredible show, incredible cast, so stylish and um, do 342 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: you think that Madman could get made today? Because you 343 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: know it, I don't think it's you know, it's not 344 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: like a superhero. It's just very it's a funny thing. 345 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: I don't think mad Men could have been made five 346 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: years before it got made, and I don't think it 347 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 1: probably could have been made five years after. I think 348 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: it just happened to come along right at the right time. 349 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: It didn't look like anything else, It didn't act. The 350 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: show wasn't about cops or fireman or lawyers or doctors, 351 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: so it didn't have or gangsters or what have you. 352 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: It was The stakes in the in the in the 353 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: world that we were playing were not the life and 354 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: death stakes that most television deals in right. So it 355 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: wasn't Tony Soprano or Walter White or this or or 356 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: you know e er or what have you, NYPD blue, 357 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: you know, it just it was. It was real life, 358 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: and it was portrayed so as you say stylish lee 359 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: and um and beautifully that. I think that's how it 360 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: That's how those steaks were brought and there. And there 361 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: were things that people could recognize, you know, things like 362 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: your your your marriage dissolving, or your career not going 363 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: the way you wanted to, or or you're getting everything 364 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: you want, what does that mean? How does that work? 365 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: Or struggling with you know, whatever is going on in 366 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: your life. And they were. It was and it was 367 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 1: played in a in a real way and not in 368 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: a corny or schmalty way either. So I think it was. 369 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: I think it came along right at the right time. 370 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: You know. I don't know if it would be if 371 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,199 Speaker 1: it maybe if it was made today, people wouldn't pay attention. 372 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: And I don't know, I don't know. It's just such 373 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: a iconic show. And I think for me, I liked 374 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: watching it because of the gender politics in the office. 375 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: Is somebody who had to kind of muscle my way 376 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: into a male dominated industry. You know, of course I 377 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: love Peggy and Joan and um, seeing sort of all 378 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: those dynamics and I think, you know, it made me 379 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: really appreciate how far we've come, you know, so there 380 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: was an element of that that that was really appealing 381 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: to me. Um, do you keep in touch with all 382 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 1: those folks? Obviously you and John are good friends. Yeah, 383 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: you know, we well, well, well there's a text thread 384 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: that gets hit up every now and again, or you know, 385 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: if one of us goes through a life moment, you know, 386 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: there'll be of congratulations or what have you. But but yeah, 387 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: we're well I wouldn't say we're super close, but but 388 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: we're as close as you you probably imagine. And uh, 389 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,719 Speaker 1: it was a pleasure to get to have John come on, 390 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: come on our film and play my former boss that 391 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: which was sort of a nod and a wink obviously 392 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: to to our past. But it was great to be 393 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: in a scene with him again. You know. It says 394 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: he's a wonderful actor and he's a great guy. And 395 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Moss is kind of on fires, is killing it. 396 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: She's she's become a cottage industry and right she's doing 397 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: her thing, and you know it's it's it's really great. 398 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: You know, it's Christina. Christina has had a really nice 399 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,479 Speaker 1: run with with good girls, and you know, everybody's kind 400 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: of doing their thing. And listen, I always see people 401 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: from Madman popping up in different shows and I'm like, wait, 402 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: there's what's his name? That man? You know, it's nice, 403 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's nice. We root for each 404 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: other for sure, and uh, and that's a great you know, 405 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: it's a great to have that kind of history. Honestly, 406 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: it's for better for worse. It was a decade out 407 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: of our lives, you know, and that we spent kind 408 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: of constantly together, whether we were either shooting the show 409 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: or promoting the show or on the awards circuit or 410 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 1: what have you. So it's it's a it's a really 411 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: worthwhile thing to have in your life, and it's not 412 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: something you want to let go that easily, you know. Obviously, John, 413 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: I've interviewed you before and read a lot about you 414 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: and and and preparing for the interview today, I forgot 415 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: about your mom and then I remembered um that you're 416 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: only ten when you lost your mom, And then I 417 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 1: think twenty when you lost your dad, and um, you know, 418 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: it's lately I've been reading and thinking a lot about 419 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: generational trauma and how how that term has expanded, and 420 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: not just sort of slavery in the Holocaust, which of 421 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: course is the ultimate sort of generational trauma, but just 422 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: the idea of of enduring a significant loss or having 423 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: something traumatic happened to you as a child, and the 424 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: impact that had on you then and how much it 425 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: it colors your adult relationships. And I know that. I 426 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: think it's so cool that you have been really exploring that. 427 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: It's amazing to me that that we weren't thinking about 428 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: that even a few years ago, about the incredible impact 429 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: your childhood does have on your adult life. Yeah, I mean, 430 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: it's a it's the foundation. You know, you're you're a 431 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: different literally, a different human being. You're made differently at 432 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: that age than you are as an adult. You're not 433 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: really cooked in many ways, and and you know, your 434 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: neural pathways are wide open when you're younger, and it's 435 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: it's all of these things are still working themselves out, 436 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: so to have that kind of traumatic experience, and and 437 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: you're right, it doesn't have to be abuse or anything 438 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: like yeah, like you said, you know, but but but 439 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: the other kinds of that are are very real as well. 440 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: And you know, my mom died of essentially of colon cancer, 441 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: and obviously I know that that's a big part of 442 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: of of your existence. It's very much part of mine. 443 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: I tell everybody in my world that's get a colonoscopy yesterday, 444 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: because it's it's all of that is easily preventable and 445 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: your most pretty and obviously that wasn't you know, it 446 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: wasn't anywhere near time for her to be screened or 447 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: anything like that. It's just a very much an outlier, 448 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: you know, like cancer is. Sometimes it just happens and 449 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: it's a bummer, um, but you know, it's it's something 450 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: that that does, as you say, leave a mark, you know, 451 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: and it and it I think that the reason recently 452 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 1: it's been a little more forward in people's minds is 453 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: because we kind of all had a major trauma over 454 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: the last couple of years with the pandemic, and we 455 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: all went through this kind of global weirdness that I 456 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: think we're all still it's just now, you know, walking 457 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: in the city and you're just now kind of like, oh, 458 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: everyone kind of feels a little bit back to me. 459 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: But there's something in the air that's still doesn't feel 460 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: quite normal, right. I feel like it's it's it's it is. 461 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: It's a combination of the very strange Trump era, but 462 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: that that amp amplified by the the very strange pandemic. 463 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: And uh, there's no you know, comparison to either of 464 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 1: those things. Really, they're both incredible outliers. And so I 465 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: think that that's everyone's kind of thinking about how all 466 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: of that is not only affecting them, aut affecting their kids. 467 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: And I've had plenty of friends of mine's kids that 468 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: their senior year or their freshman year in college or 469 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: whatever was remote and they don't get to see their friends, 470 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: they don't have to get to have a graduation, and 471 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: I'm just like, gosh, that's sucks. You know, that just 472 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: sucks because because of this weird thing that we had 473 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: no control over. I mean, it's like like an asteroid 474 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: hit the planet or something. It's just all of a sudden, 475 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: it's we can't go out for a year. That was 476 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 1: weird and processing that is is it going to take 477 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: a minute? You hope it teaches kids resilience and sort 478 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: of how to adjust and sacrifice. But you're right, I 479 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: think it's it was really really difficult and heartbreaking for 480 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: a lot of kids, and a lot of adults, and 481 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: a lot of elderly people who declined so rapidly because 482 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,479 Speaker 1: they didn't have social interaction, social the social part of 483 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: our day to day existence. Having having that completely removed 484 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: or or or completely replaced, I should say, with with 485 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 1: some semblance of if you're lucky enough to have a 486 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: computer or WiFi or whatever, you could zoom, or you 487 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: could FaceTime or things like that. But I remember early 488 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: on in the pandemic calling all of my friends and 489 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: FaceTime and all my friends, like I've talked to you 490 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: more than the last like six months that I have 491 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 1: in the last six years, because there isn't it's a 492 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: replacement for what was just normal life seeing people. I know, 493 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: I can't call my friend seeing him, how's he doing? 494 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: You know? What time is? It mustragon like you know. 495 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: So I think you're right. Maybe that has sort of 496 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: spurred more interest in how events in one's lives, you know, 497 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: have an impact, yeah, and re emerge often, and how 498 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: you interact with people. And I'm just curious John, and 499 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: if you don't feel comfortable talking about it. We don't 500 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: have to. But do you do you remember much about 501 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: your mom and your mom's illness, because obviously, you know, 502 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: when my husband got sick and died nine months later. 503 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: I mean, like, I remember almost every detail of that. 504 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: I remember a lot of it, you know, I remember. 505 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: I just remember how sudden it was, you know, I 506 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: remember her it being my mom one day and then 507 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: not my mom one day. You know, just how rapidly 508 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 1: the illness spread. And you know, being spending so much 509 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: time in a hospital at that young age was very 510 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: strange to me. And my only experience with hospitals was 511 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: old people at that point, not certainly not my mom, 512 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: who was thirty five years old. I's not old, although 513 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: when you're nine that's any but you know, it was like, 514 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: the hospitals are for old people. That's what hospitals are for. 515 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: And so it was a very strange, you know, kind 516 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: of disconnect and jarring. Uh. And then by the end, 517 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: my mother had the cancer really spread throughout her whole 518 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: abdomen and all of her major organs, and you know, 519 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: she was a shell of herself and and there wasn't 520 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: any support network in the early eighties, mental health was 521 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: what they called crazy people like that was you know, 522 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: if you needed some mental health work, that meant you 523 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: were going in the rubber room. Um, and it was 524 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: just you and your dad. It was me and my dad. 525 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: And I had two half sisters who both lost their 526 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: mother very young as well, and you know, aunts and 527 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 1: uncles and and and whatnot. But I understanded family, but 528 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: it was the vocabulary certainly wasn't there, and people didn't 529 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: know how to talk about that. I was given a 530 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: book that said what to do with it when a 531 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: parent dies, written by some psychologist I guess or social worker, 532 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: which I read. But you know, that's not really what 533 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: you need. You need to talk and have people explain 534 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 1: and understand and really you know, and from way, that's 535 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: a that's your first, uh introduction in many ways to permanence, 536 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: you know, as death and most people it's their dog 537 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: or there or their grandma or what have you. And 538 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: and to have it be this close and have have 539 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: it really settled. It was my part that I don't 540 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: remember so much as the aftermath. The next couple of 541 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: years are very aggy for me. And then once I 542 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: got once I started at the school that I eventually 543 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: went back to teach that got me back into a 544 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: pattern room. Was like, Okay, now I'm starting to feel 545 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,479 Speaker 1: like I'm coming out of that fog. Ten is a 546 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: tough h to a ten year old boy. And energy, 547 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: you know, you've got a lot of, but also you're 548 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: very you know, my girl, my girls were two and six, 549 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: and you know, Ellie was obviously aware and her dad 550 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: walked her to school every day and made her breakfast 551 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: and did her hair and all that not very well 552 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: by the way, but you know, um, I think, yeah, 553 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: I think ten, you know, you're kind of in the world, 554 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: and and I remember thinking and those those are very 555 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: like that pre adolescent adolescent stage is so tender and fragile, 556 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: and so that that must have been tough. Was your 557 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: debt was did you feel like you're I mean, your 558 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: dad probably had a hard time dealing with that, as 559 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: you said, people how to do he he was his 560 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: first wife passed away very suddenly as well, so you know, 561 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: he was dealing with a lot of stuff that again, 562 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: no vocabulary, no infrastructure to help, no mental health checks. No, 563 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: it was not only talk about death, John, but really 564 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: to talk about cancer, cancer, depression, feelings. You know, a 565 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: lot of that was you know, we're still in the 566 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: post war. You know, my grandfather fought in World War Two, 567 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: and I remember going through I was probably in my 568 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: late teens or even early twenties, some of his photo 569 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: albums from back then, Handsome Guy and the Navy and 570 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: you know, outfit and the thing, and I was like, oh, man, 571 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: where were you as we're in the Philippines. I was like, 572 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: Philippines went to World War Two and you're like, oh, yeah, 573 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: that was a brutal part of World War Two, Like 574 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: the Pacific Islands were not. It wasn't sun tans and surfing. 575 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: It was a lot of like death and destruction. And 576 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: he just wouldn't talk about it. He just would say 577 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: a lot of bad things happen there. And that was 578 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: your dad died at when you were twenty, and so 579 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: you were sort of an orphan. That sort of you 580 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,239 Speaker 1: were an orphan. Yeah, you were an orphan when your 581 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: dad died when you were just twenty, and that must 582 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: have left you feeling pretty unmoored for sure. It was 583 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: you were in college. It was in college, and it 584 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: was sort of like I was, I was. My my 585 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: grandmother had passed away about eight months before hand, and 586 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: that's where I was living, and so I was sort 587 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: of moved out of my house while I was in 588 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: college and came back and all my stuff was in 589 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: my sister's basement. That's where I lived. And then my 590 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: dad died, so I was very much That's when I 591 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: really leaned on my community. And that was when my 592 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: my friend's parents and they all sort of adopted you 593 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: pretty much. Yeah, that's when I really realized that, Okay, 594 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: not only do I need help. My sister was like, 595 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: you need to see a professional, You need to talk 596 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: to somebody, and you need to know somehow get back 597 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: on your feet. And part of that was getting a job, 598 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, recommitting to school and and really kind of 599 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: understanding in some way what was going on, you know, 600 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: what was what was not only what was happening now 601 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: and what had happened, but what what do you want? 602 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: What do you want your life to look like? Because 603 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: because start working on it, because it'll go buy fast 604 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: if you don't. And and that's when I really that 605 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: was you know, in a lot of ways was like okay, 606 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: it was a gut check. You know a lot of 607 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: people don't get that until way later in life. But 608 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: mine came in and it was and it was time 609 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: to kind of get back on the horse and really 610 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: get going. We'll be right back. I feel like you 611 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: have really started in a in a very significant way, 612 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: delving into the impact of your your mom's death and 613 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: later your dad's death. And you know, if there's a 614 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: guy named Terry Real who I've interviewed who talks about 615 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: the adaptive child versus the wise adult, and some of 616 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: the impulses you have that harkened back to when you 617 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: were much younger, and I'm just curious, you know, what 618 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: are you learning about yourself, John through your work through 619 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: therapy that is helped you in forging your relationships today. 620 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: Part of that is, you know when you lose parents 621 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: at a young age, that the fact the loss of 622 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: them is is processed like an abandonment, uh, even though 623 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: it's obviously it's of no, not their choice, the choices 624 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: made by the universe. But you adaptive child brain doesn't 625 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,959 Speaker 1: think of it that way. It feels abandoned. And so 626 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: you you experience this loss this lot. It's almost like 627 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: a cutout shape, right, and you just don't have it anymore. 628 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: But you can't quite process why, and that that stays 629 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 1: with you. And so as you say, it reflects itself 630 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: in your relationships and your ability to you know, be 631 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: in a in a loving relationship or let yourself be 632 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: vulnerable or let yourself be loved or taking care of anything, 633 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: and and and that's a that's a tough pattern to break, 634 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: and it takes. It really just takes. I'm not going 635 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: to try to make this sound like it's easy, but 636 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: it really takes the awareness to identify what it is 637 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: and to identify how you are actually processing that. And 638 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,919 Speaker 1: then don't you have to almost you have to kind 639 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: of rewire your brains, but you have to identify it first. 640 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: You have to stop yourself in your tracks at time 641 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: and say, why am I? Why am I pushing this away? 642 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: Or why am I reacting this way? Why am I? 643 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: Or why am I looking for this other thing? Why? Why? 644 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: You know? Why? Why is a big When you can 645 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: come up with with the reason why, then you can 646 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: actively or effectively counteract it if it's something that's not healthy. 647 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: And so that's yeah, that's been a big part of 648 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: my kind of unpacking of a lot of all that 649 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: stuff is understanding that Okay, some of that stuff is 650 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: a survival mechanism, right. And you talk about adaptive children, Well, 651 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: the kids are very famously can you know, find their 652 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: way through any situation. But it doesn't necessarily mean that 653 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: that's always good for them. You know, if you talk 654 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: to survivors of atrocities or things and their kids, they 655 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 1: you know, they they're holding onto that stuff even though 656 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: they survived it, and they they adapted to their surroundings 657 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: or abuse or you know whatever. But you have to 658 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: really understand that that surviving something is not coming it 659 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: and and and learning from it. Well, so you how 660 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 1: are you feeling on like the healthy and whole spectrum 661 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: these days? Mentally? You know, I'm I'm for me. The 662 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: pandemic was actually, you know, I hate to say this. 663 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: It's always like you say, I had a pretty nice pandemic. Um, 664 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,359 Speaker 1: but I got to I worked a lot, which was good. Um, 665 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: you know, I I basically strengthened a relationship with my 666 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: girlfriend Anna throughout that. It was sort of like a 667 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,800 Speaker 1: tribe by fire. A lot of people's went the other way, 668 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,399 Speaker 1: but the but the pandemic was an amplifier I think 669 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: for for good and bad and for for our case, 670 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,240 Speaker 1: it was it was good. And um, you know, I'm 671 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: looking forward to the whatever the next phases. You know, 672 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: it's it's I'm very I'm very present in in that 673 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: and and understanding that you know, none of that stuff 674 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: comes without real awareness and work on it and and 675 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: and paying attention. That's a big part of it. You 676 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: can get distracted so easily in the business that we're in. 677 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: There's so many shiny things, right there's a party to 678 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: go to, an award show, and at this and at that, 679 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: and the next job and the next challenge, and and 680 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: you can get so distracted that it it's helpful to 681 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: to center and and remind yourself that you know, everything 682 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: you have is really nice, and maybe don't worry about 683 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: what you don't have. Amen. Amen, brother, So do you 684 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: think you'll ever have kids? I'm just curious. I mean, 685 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 1: I mean, is that when you looked ahead at your 686 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: life plan? Was that something that was in the picture 687 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 1: or was it? I mean, it's my life. I've never 688 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: had a life plan. You know. That's you said, you 689 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,399 Speaker 1: said by thirty if this isn't true, but but but 690 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: that's a that's a that's an if. Then I guess, Um, 691 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: I never really had a roadmap because I never I 692 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: don't know, I never. Everything was always so unstable and 693 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: now that things have stabilized and I'm comfortable in my 694 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: career and I'm comfortable in my life, yeah, you know 695 00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: I would. I would love to have kids. I think 696 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: it would be great. You know, I'd be a good 697 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 1: I just I just saw George Clooney, he was on 698 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: Drew Barrymore right before me, and I was like, oh, yeah, 699 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: like he's he's a good old dad. Like there's good 700 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 1: old dad's. He would be a good I'd be a 701 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: good old dad. Well, I think you'd have a lot 702 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: of fun because I think you're fun and funny, and 703 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 1: it would be you know, there's nothing like kids in 704 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,319 Speaker 1: terms of you know, you talk about shiny objects. Boy, 705 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: they set your priorities pretty quickly. And yeah, in the 706 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 1: best way I think too. Care of something is is 707 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: is great? You know, is a great reason to get 708 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: up in the morning. For sure? Are you speaking of 709 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 1: shiny objects? Do have something you're doing next professionally or 710 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 1: I'm currently working on the show? Wait wait, wait, we 711 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 1: have to we have to talk about that for a 712 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 1: set the morning. I'm sure it's very near and dear 713 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: to your heart. I mean, so, have you shot some episodes? 714 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: Let me guess you're an Angerman? I'm not, actually, strazily enough, No, 715 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't play an anchor. Man. I can't 716 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: really get into who I play. But really, but can 717 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: you give us a little hint? I wish I could. No, 718 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil anything, but I suffice to say, 719 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: I get to I get to work with jan Anniston 720 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: and Reese and Billy crude up and the whole gang 721 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 1: over there, all of whom are really wonderful actors. And 722 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: it's a real treat to get to to be in 723 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: scenes with with pros, you know, And and at this 724 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: point in my career, it's like a nice it's nice 725 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: to be invited to to play with the A team. 726 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: And um, yeah, we're here in New York City. We're 727 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,319 Speaker 1: gonna shoot some exteriors for the show. And and are 728 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: you shooting some scenes also in New York? So I'm 729 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: not I'm not sure. I think if whatever we do 730 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: will be outdoors and beautiful in it. She's wonderful. She's 731 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: a longtime friend of mine as well. I love her. Um, 732 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: so yeah, you know, it's it's uh doing that. When 733 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: I wrapped that in a couple in a month or so, 734 00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: I'll go up to Canada to do season five, a 735 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: far ago. Um, so you know, wait, were you in 736 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: earlier season? Because I was like, I don't remember. That's 737 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: kind of what I look for when I look at TV. 738 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,520 Speaker 1: Stuff is sort of things I can get into and 739 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 1: get out of. You know, it's one season here, one 740 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 1: season here, the you don't want sort of a the 741 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: long the decade long job is holds less of a 742 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,839 Speaker 1: thrill for me than it once did. But and then 743 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,280 Speaker 1: hopefully we'll get to make some more fletches down the line. 744 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: There's there's nine, nine or ten more books. I'd love 745 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: to I'd love to get to the one where he 746 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: goes to Rio. I hope, I hope we get to 747 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,720 Speaker 1: do that. That would be awesome. But there's plenty more stories, 748 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: and it's they're all really fun and funny and and intriguing, 749 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,359 Speaker 1: and they're satisfying. You know, they're they're they're who done. 750 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: It's and when you when you tell one of those stories, 751 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: as I said that, they're having a moment right now. 752 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 1: So I think people are are finding that the mysteries. 753 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 1: When they're solved, they're satisfied. And also escapism, and it's 754 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 1: also also a little bit of a change from like 755 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: when you see a story that where the where actions 756 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 1: have consequences and things make sense at the end, and 757 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,240 Speaker 1: then that's talk about wish fulfillment, Like I just wish 758 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 1: that the real world would work like that every now 759 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 1: and again, where people would have to actually own up 760 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: to what they did and pay for it. Who could 761 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: you be talking about. I can't imagine who I might 762 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: be thinking of. Well, it's really fun to see you. 763 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 1: I'm so glad things are going so well. Always been 764 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: a big fan. Thank you for your help with Stand 765 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,720 Speaker 1: Up to Cancer. Thank you for spreading the word about 766 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,400 Speaker 1: colonoscopies and other forms of screening. I did a Colon 767 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 1: Guard commercial because you know, colonoscopies are great if a 768 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 1: you do them, yes, and there's a there's a rough days, 769 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: well you know, as as it once was. Yeah, And 770 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: I also say it's much better than being diagnosed with 771 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: colon cancer. But you know, my attitude is the best 772 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,240 Speaker 1: test is the that gets done. So for whatever reason, 773 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,840 Speaker 1: if you can't miss work and you want something to 774 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: even be and you know, between colon oscar by Art 775 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: is a big option. By the way, this wasn't a commercial, 776 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 1: but I just wanted to explain why I was happy 777 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,279 Speaker 1: to support what they did. Stuff is so is so 778 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: important and it's so you know. Again, I talked about 779 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: my mom. You know, in the seventies, it just didn't exist, 780 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,839 Speaker 1: and the the idea of preventative medicine in any kind 781 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: of way. It was like kind of a hippie dippie thing. 782 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 1: I remember my neighbor eight yogurt and I thought that 783 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,359 Speaker 1: was super weird. Give me a break, hippie, right, and 784 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: really health food. It was like what health food? Who 785 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,480 Speaker 1: wants to be healthy? It's you know, and in the 786 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 1: Midwest it was it was kind of amplithizing, right, What 787 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 1: do they have those Drew's Drews? I had a Ted Drews. 788 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: You turn it upside down. It doesn't concrete. Yeah, they're good. 789 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 1: They're good and probably not good for you though, John 790 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 1: everything in moderation. They are delicious. But it's not only 791 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 1: you know, not only are understanding of prevention, but just 792 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:14,239 Speaker 1: some of the things they have in terms of diagnostic 793 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:19,160 Speaker 1: tools and treatments. I mean cancer care. My dad had 794 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,840 Speaker 1: diabetes when he was thirty years old. My grandmother had diabetes, 795 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: like my my mom's side of the family has cancer 796 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: all over it. I just why not if you're going 797 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,759 Speaker 1: to find it, find it early. It's better find it late. 798 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 1: Diabetes is the same thing, you know, it's it's one 799 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: of those things that you there's markers and there's things 800 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,919 Speaker 1: that they know are precursors, and if you just pay 801 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: attention to them. Part of that is what I was 802 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:43,719 Speaker 1: saying to you know, if you just pay attention to 803 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,640 Speaker 1: what your life is telling you, you can actually it's 804 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 1: a lot less stressful. It's true. It's true. What is 805 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,759 Speaker 1: it an ounce of preventing ance of preventions or the 806 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: pound of cure is and that's so true. Yeah, well, Seohn, 807 00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 1: thank you for doing this. And it's nice because it 808 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,360 Speaker 1: doesn't sound like you're tired of talking about this stuff, 809 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,319 Speaker 1: which is really nice. No, because you've been, you've been. 810 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,319 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's always a pleasure to see you. 811 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,279 Speaker 1: It's you put a smile on my face every time 812 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: I see you. But it's nice to have a conversation with, 813 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, with regular people. Good, all right, thanks John, 814 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:22,120 Speaker 1: My pleasure confess fletches out now, and if you want 815 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 1: to know where to watch it, do what I do. 816 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:32,360 Speaker 1: Google it. Next Question with Katie Kurik is a production 817 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,719 Speaker 1: of My Heart Media and Katie Kuric Media. The executive 818 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 1: producers Army, Katie Curic, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer 819 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,360 Speaker 1: is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements and Adrianna Fasio. 820 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 1: The show is edited and mixed by Derrick Clements. For 821 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,040 Speaker 1: more information about today's episode, or to sign up for 822 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: my morning newsletter, wake Up Call, go to Katie Currek 823 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,720 Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find me at Katie Curic 824 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 1: on Instagram and all my social media of channels. For 825 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,359 Speaker 1: more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart 826 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,960 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your 827 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:09,759 Speaker 1: favorite shows. H