1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, Chuck's 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: here too, Jerry's here to Dave's not, but you know 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: the jam and this is short stuff. You go, Okay, 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: I'll go. So we're talking about the Benin bronzes and 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: they are a treasure trove of artworks that came out 6 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: of Benin, which is a former kingdom. Actually it's still 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: a current kingdom in Edo State in the south of 8 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: Nigeria right now, but before Nigeria was Nigeria, Benin was 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: a kingdom along West Africa that was a very powerful kingdom. 10 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: And one of the things that they did when a 11 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: new king, which they called an obah oba or a 12 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: new queen mother, ascended to the throne, when there was 13 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: some sort of important event or even something that they 14 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: just wanted to kind of chronicle, they would make these plaques, 15 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: these incredibly intricate, well made ron's plaques. And over time, 16 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: over hundreds of years of creating these things and documenting 17 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: the kingdom, they ended up with a lot of these things, 18 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: and so much so that it became essentially considered a 19 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: cultural legacy of the world, but in particular of Benin 20 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: in West Africa. 21 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, boy, what a set up. 22 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: Thanks. I've been practicing it for like eight days. 23 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 2: I really know what you're doing. They also serve as 24 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: a historical record, of course, because like you said, they 25 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 2: came along when there were new obas and new queen mothers. 26 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 2: So it's art and its history all wrapped up into one. 27 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 2: And one element of the historical part of it is 28 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 2: how it figures in, and this very much figures in 29 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: with sort of the story. Here is their contact with 30 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: Europeans in Europe and these countries, the first of which 31 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 2: was the Portuguese. When they started trading and having diplomatic 32 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: contacts and relations with Portugal, so they were sort of 33 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 2: the first on board. They would send emissaries back and 34 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 2: forth between Portugal and Benin and they negotiated their their 35 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: their deal, their trade deal, their sort of how they 36 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 2: were going to work together as people, and that's where 37 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 2: Europe enters the picture basically as far as Benin is concerned. 38 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was just the Portuguese at first. That 39 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: was I don't know if you said it or not, 40 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: but starting in the fifteenth century they made contact and 41 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 1: we're trading with them, and then shortly after that this 42 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: is like the Age of Discovery, where people from Europe 43 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: just started sailing around being like, hey, hey, who wants 44 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: to buy our stuff? And whose stuff can we buy 45 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: so or take? Yeah, yeah, exactly. They were very quickly 46 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: followed by the French, the Dutch, the English, and Benins 47 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: trading with all of these European nations. And they were 48 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: already a fairly powerful kingdom from what I can tell, 49 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: but they became exponentially powerful because they positioned themselves as 50 00:02:55,040 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: the contact between European traders and countries and kingdoms and 51 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: states in the interior. You wanted to trade with any 52 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: other groups in West Africa, you needed to go through 53 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: the Kingdom of Benin to do that if you were 54 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: a European. And so they became very very powerful, and 55 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: that's kind of how things went for a couple of centuries. 56 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: They became really involved in the West African slave trade. 57 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: They supplied slaves to the Europeans, They traded leopard skins, pepper, ivory, 58 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: things that were really valued in Europe. They had a 59 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: lot of stuff that the Europeans wanted, So, like I said, 60 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: they became powerful. But as industrializations started to really take 61 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: hold in Europe, particularly in the UK, Great Britain became 62 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: more and more powerful, and essentially eventually I should say, 63 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: dominated trade with West Africa and Benin in particular. But 64 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: they weren't happy with having a monopoly. They wanted to 65 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: get rid of Benin altogether and just be able to 66 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: trade with people in the er. Why should they have 67 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: a middle man, and so they started to kind of 68 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: antagonize Benin and things just kind of went south from there. 69 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: It's a little early, but I think we should take 70 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: a break because it's such a good cliffhanger. 71 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: Wow, thanks man, all right, we'll be right. 72 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: Back, all right. So when we left off, Great Britain 73 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: was like, hey, you know what, we don't need this 74 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: gatekeeper anymore. We don't need a middle man. We want 75 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 2: to be able to do what we want in Africa 76 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 2: and Central Africa and not go through Benin. So in 77 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: eighteen ninety seven, in January of that year, they supposedly 78 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: a peaceful mission, but it was a pretty aggressive, provocative 79 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 2: thing that they did. The British Trade mission went in 80 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 2: and they were attacked when they're on their way to 81 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 2: Benin City, and this really changed everything. There were seven 82 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 2: British delegates who died in this attack. I think two 83 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty of the African carriers died. But as 84 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 2: far as Britain was concerned, is it's on now because 85 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: seven of us are dead. And that triggered a full 86 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 2: scale a retaliatory military assault and expedition on Benin, which 87 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 2: of course was no match at all for the British 88 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: forces at the time. Yeah. 89 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: No, it was something that Great Britain could point to 90 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: and just be like, oh, look, we don't have any 91 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: moral quander anymore. We can go take over Benin now 92 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: under the guise of revenge. This is called the Punitive expedition. 93 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: And so they sent in a bunch of a large 94 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: military contingent and they just occupied Benin, killed off a 95 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: lot of the chiefs, they exiled the Oba, they pilled 96 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: and this is really critical, This is kind of the 97 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: point of this short stuff. They pillaged stuff, they found treasures, 98 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: they found a Benin and one of the things they 99 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: pillaged was the Benin bronzes. And in addition to those 100 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: plaques that we talked about, the Benin bronze, that that term, 101 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 1: it's like an umbrella term to describe a whole group 102 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: of artworks that were created in the Kingdom of Benin 103 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,679 Speaker 1: from about the at least the fifteenth century up until 104 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, although they seem to have been creating 105 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: pretty great artworks even before that fifteenth century, like in 106 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: the medieval era. But this it could be made of ivory, 107 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: it could be made of brass, it could be made 108 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: of bronze. All sorts of different media in making jewelry, 109 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: or making busts, or making altar pieces, or making those plaques, 110 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: all of those are encompassed by this Benin bronze term. 111 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: And all of those were pillaged. I think ten thousand 112 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: pieces of art and cultural artifacts were pillaged during this 113 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: occupation by the British of Benin. 114 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot of that went back to the UK. 115 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: You know, they call that spoils of war, which is 116 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 2: a nice way to say things we stole after we 117 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 2: invaded a country, and some of it they distributed among 118 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: some of the people of the expedition, like here, you 119 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 2: take this, you take this, I'll be taking this, and 120 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: they basically remove Benin as that gatekeeper, and all of 121 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: a sudden, you know, Central Africa was open for all 122 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: of Europe to trade with, certainly England, and these artifacts 123 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 2: ended up you know where they always end up in 124 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 2: the hands of nobility, private collections and notably museums, where 125 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 2: a lot of this stuff are still in these museums today, right. 126 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, the two largest collections are held by the British 127 00:07:54,720 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: Museum and the Ethnographic Museum in Berlin. And even though 128 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: that that umbrella term Benine bronzes refers to a lot 129 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: of different artworks, typically you're also really talking about those 130 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: plaques that show different you know, different Obasa sending to 131 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: the throne, different you know, moments in benin history. And 132 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: they're they're considered like a again I think I said, 133 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: a cultural legacy of humanity. But they're also just treasure. 134 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: I mean, they're worth Chuck, I saw an estimated one 135 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty billion dollars. They are priceless, I guess 136 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: not priceless. They were the one hundred and thirty billion, 137 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: but they're incredibly valuable, not just monetarily, but also culturally 138 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: and historically, and they are outside of Africa. There was 139 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: a French report by a restitution group that was commissioned 140 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: by Emanuel Macron in twenty seventeen that estimated that ninety 141 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: to ninety five percent of Africa's cultural hair is held 142 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: by major museums outside of Africa because of something called 143 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: the Scramble for Africa in the late nineteenth century, when 144 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: all these European powers just invaded Africa and started carving 145 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: it up and turning it into colonies. They took all 146 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: the stuff that they liked and sent it back to 147 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: Europe and it's still in these museums. 148 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. But and this is something we've talked about before 149 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 2: in some other art podcasts. Part of that twenty seventeen study. 150 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 2: The whole point of that was repatriation, was getting this 151 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 2: art back into the hands of the countries of origin, 152 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 2: these stolen artifacts. And Emmanuel Macron said, you know what, 153 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: over the next five years, we're gonna return the stuff 154 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 2: that we have. Germany got involved the Smithsonian, like individual museums, 155 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 2: the Smithsonian and the met all have said like, all right, 156 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 2: we need to start, you know, returning these these looted 157 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 2: art pieces, especially these were not as spac actually, but 158 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 2: for this episode, you know, notably these bronze plaques from Nigeria, 159 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 2: and so Nigeria is getting so much stuff back that 160 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 2: next year. I don't know if it's still on track, 161 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 2: but in twenty twenty five, they are opening the Edo 162 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 2: Museum of West African Art because they finally have art again. 163 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a sculptor from Nigeria called a Hanjazo Gleiley, 164 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: He's a sculptor and said that there's an artistic awakening 165 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: in Nigeria because of the return of these bronzes. 166 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. But I think this one in particular comes with 167 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 2: a little bit of controversy, right because the the current 168 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 2: OBA is that right, Yes, his Royal Majesty Oba Uwaar 169 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 2: the second I'm going with ure the second okay, legally 170 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 2: speaking as the rightful owner of these bronzes. But in 171 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, Muhammadu Bihari, who is the outgoing president said, 172 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 2: you know, any of this looted stuff that comes back 173 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 2: to the Oba like belongs to the Oba and the 174 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 2: palace of the Oba, and no one can do anything 175 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 2: with it unless the Oba says so. 176 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you are in Nigeria and like Benin, 177 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: it's still it's just a department, like we said, it's 178 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: a not considered like an independent nation state or even kingdom. 179 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: I guess it's part of Nigeria. But it's like the 180 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: Oba has like a government advisory role to the Nigerian 181 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: government like they're they're viewed legitimately in similar lines to 182 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: the way the man somebody's gonna kill us for this 183 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: little bit. But the royal family is in Great Britain. 184 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 1: They don't actually rule Great Britain, but they still have 185 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: they're still consulted on things, they still have some sort 186 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: of cultural importance as well. That's the impression that I 187 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: have there. But so the Nigerian president doing that makes 188 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,839 Speaker 1: total sense in Nigeria, like it was the Kingdom of 189 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: Benins to begin with, the Kingdom of Benin is still there. 190 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: Though oh Ba is the leader of the Kingdom of Benina, 191 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: ancestor or a descendant of these people from whom these 192 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: plaques were stolen, it makes sense that it's his. But 193 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: outside of Nigeria, if you're a museum curator, you don't 194 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: like the sound of that at all. 195 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's definitely been some complaints from these 196 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 2: Western museums who are like, you know, I don't know 197 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: about returning all this stuff and having it just be 198 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 2: claimed by the palace, and you know, apparently the museum 199 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 2: director there, Philip Ihanako, is how I'm going to pronounce it. 200 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 2: Although I have appealing that I might be silent, said, 201 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 2: you know what, you don't really get a say in 202 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 2: this anymore. Yeah, like you can't loot this stuff over 203 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 2: you know, a long period of time and then a 204 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 2: expect it to be you know, handled like you want 205 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 2: or handled you know, perfectly in a very quick manner. 206 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: And so yeah, the West is like, okay, you know, 207 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 1: we agreed, like these are illegitimately taken from Benin, so 208 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: they need to go back to Benin, and they're just 209 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: going to have to deal with the fact that this 210 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: this cultural legacy of humanity is privately owned by one person, 211 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: the Oba of Benin. 212 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 2: I mean, is it the complaint that it's not going 213 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: to be or not necessarily going to be on display. 214 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: I don't know, because they built the Museum of West 215 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: African Art, so I don't know that that's it. I 216 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: think the idea is in the West, if a museum 217 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: owns something, it belongs to everybody, and the museums is 218 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: kind of the keeper of that. They protected the keeper shape. 219 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,079 Speaker 1: They show you this this stuff, they put it on display. 220 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: This is like, no, these things belong to the Oba. 221 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: He can do whatever he wants. 222 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, essentially, Okay, so they're afraid it's just going to 223 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 2: be like decorating the bathroom or something. 224 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: I guess I think so, I'm not sure. I just 225 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,719 Speaker 1: think that they're a little skittish about the whole thing. 226 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: And I think the guy who, like Well West needs 227 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: to butt out of it and just give us our 228 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: plaques back. It's tough not to. It's tough to discount 229 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: his thoughts too. Are you got anything else? 230 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 2: I got nothing else. 231 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: If you want to know more about the Benin bronzes, 232 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: go look them up online. They're really fascinating and beautiful. 233 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: And since I said that short, stuff's out. 234 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 2: Stuff you should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 235 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 2: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple 236 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 2: Podcasts 237 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.