1
00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:13,440
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. The judge has let the

2
00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,480
Speaker 1: jury go for their lunch recess, and just before they

3
00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,960
Speaker 1: walked out, he appointed juror I believe he said number

4
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,080
Speaker 1: eight two six as the fourth person of the jury.

5
00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,319
Speaker 1: Now I don't know that the jury voted on the

6
00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,879
Speaker 1: fourth person. Did the judge select the four person for

7
00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,040
Speaker 1: the jury, But that signifies to me that this case

8
00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,600
Speaker 1: is moving along, God willing nobody else gets sick and

9
00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:42,880
Speaker 1: falls off the jury. I mean, Nancy Grace, this is

10
00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,479
Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. We are

11
00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,400
Speaker 1: live at the courthouse and that jury has seen and

12
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,960
Speaker 1: heard a lot of evidence today, including an in depth

13
00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:59,920
Speaker 1: description of the murders of Paul and Maggie. But first

14
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,000
Speaker 1: I want you to watch this. Now. There was a time,

15
00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:07,560
Speaker 1: and I remember it well, when every statement and or

16
00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 1: confession was not videotaped. And that's a real danger at

17
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,320
Speaker 1: trial because it allows the defense to get a toe

18
00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:21,280
Speaker 1: in the door and claim that there was torture, that

19
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,000
Speaker 1: there was a beating, that there was all sorts of

20
00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,000
Speaker 1: coercion in order to get a statement. But when you

21
00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:33,440
Speaker 1: have a video, there's no way to misinterpret what happened

22
00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:38,240
Speaker 1: in that interrogation room. So with that in mind, take

23
00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,920
Speaker 1: a listen to what happens when Murdog is asked point

24
00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,479
Speaker 1: blank if he killed Maggie and Paul in our cut two?

25
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:53,240
Speaker 1: Did you kill Anie? Did I killed him? No? I

26
00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,720
Speaker 1: do not know who did it? Did you kill Paul? No?

27
00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,680
Speaker 1: I did not kill Paul. Do you know who did

28
00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 1: it that I did not? Who did? Do you think

29
00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,800
Speaker 1: I killed Maggie? I have to go with the evidence

30
00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:10,240
Speaker 1: and the factuation. You think I killed Paul. I have

31
00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,680
Speaker 1: to go with the evidence and the facts. Me and

32
00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:18,000
Speaker 1: I don't have anything that points anybody else at this time.

33
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,960
Speaker 1: So does that mean that I am a suspect? With

34
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,239
Speaker 1: everything that we've talked about, with the family, guns, the ammunition,

35
00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,280
Speaker 1: nobody else's DNA. I have to put my belief aside

36
00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,919
Speaker 1: and go with the facts. For Pete's sake. Man, didn't

37
00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,880
Speaker 1: you go to law school? He says, you think I

38
00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:44,560
Speaker 1: killed Maggie? You think I killed Paul? And the cop says, well,

39
00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,040
Speaker 1: I've got nowhere else to go, and he goes, does

40
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 1: that mean I'm a suspect? Yes, that means you're a suspect.

41
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:56,720
Speaker 1: Murdog with me. Ronnie Richter South Carolina attorney for the

42
00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:01,040
Speaker 1: sadder Field family and other victims of Alex Murdog. He's

43
00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,160
Speaker 1: a partner at bland Rictor Law firm. Ronnie, thank you

44
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,280
Speaker 1: for being with us. What was Murdog playing at there?

45
00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:14,160
Speaker 1: Because you hear him say, wait, you think I killed Maggie?

46
00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,239
Speaker 1: Do you think I killed Paul? And the guy says yeah,

47
00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,680
Speaker 1: and he goes, well, does that mean I was suspect? Yes?

48
00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,799
Speaker 1: H E W L y E S That's exactly what

49
00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,679
Speaker 1: it means, Nancy. He knew he was a suspect. He

50
00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,160
Speaker 1: knew he was a suspect that the night of the murders.

51
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you're you're the guy that called nine to

52
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,200
Speaker 1: one one, You're the immediate next of ken, You're at

53
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:37,920
Speaker 1: the murder scene. You're obviously you're a person of interest.

54
00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,360
Speaker 1: What stunning to me is that this interview took place

55
00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,120
Speaker 1: at all. He's a third generation solicitor, as his family

56
00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,520
Speaker 1: has held the seat for a hundred years. You got

57
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,320
Speaker 1: to know the rule number one is that you don't

58
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,560
Speaker 1: voluntarily offer statements to the police. And if you if

59
00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,800
Speaker 1: you rewind to the beginning of that statement, the purpose

60
00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,840
Speaker 1: they came there, that they came for that day was

61
00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,400
Speaker 1: really for Alex to interview them. You know, I want

62
00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,680
Speaker 1: to hear that one more time, Christine, if you don't

63
00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 1: mind playing where he says. Wait, wait, you think I'm

64
00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,240
Speaker 1: a suspect? You think I did it? Did I kill

65
00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 1: my wife? That is a textbook classic way to avoid

66
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,200
Speaker 1: a question. Let's hear that one more time. Take a listen.

67
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,440
Speaker 1: Did you kill any Did I kill my life? Not

68
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,919
Speaker 1: a dated? Do you know who did? No life? Do

69
00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,480
Speaker 1: not know who did? Did you kill Paul? No? I

70
00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,800
Speaker 1: did not kill Paul? Do you know who did? Said

71
00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,919
Speaker 1: I did not know who did? Do you think I

72
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,400
Speaker 1: killed made? I have to go with the evidence and

73
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:42,880
Speaker 1: the facultation. You think I killed Paul? I have to

74
00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,159
Speaker 1: go with the evidence and the facts. Pay me and

75
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:50,479
Speaker 1: I don't have anything that points anybody else at this time?

76
00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,400
Speaker 1: So does that mean that I am a suspect? With

77
00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,720
Speaker 1: everything that we've talked about, with the family, guns, the ammunition,

78
00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:07,080
Speaker 1: nobody else's nay from my police aside with me. Founder

79
00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:11,040
Speaker 1: director of the Coal Case Research Institute, crime scene expert,

80
00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,520
Speaker 1: and you can find her at Coalcase crimes dot org.

81
00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,200
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum joined us. Cheryl wouldn't have been a great

82
00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,960
Speaker 1: time for Murdick to say, Hell, now I didn't kill them.

83
00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,560
Speaker 1: We got to get out of this interview room and

84
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,159
Speaker 1: go find who did kill them. That's what I would

85
00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 1: have expected him to say. He should have lost his

86
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,680
Speaker 1: mind if he were an innocent person. That Lieutenant Owens

87
00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,720
Speaker 1: is waste in any time at all on anybody. You

88
00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,479
Speaker 1: know that he would just waste his time talking to

89
00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,480
Speaker 1: him if he didn't do it. Nancy, you know what

90
00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,760
Speaker 1: this reminds me of Sarah's Hopard. Remember Fred when they

91
00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 1: interviewed him, and Fred said, yeah, I think the person

92
00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,840
Speaker 1: entered from the second story, fine glass door, and then

93
00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,599
Speaker 1: we already knew the murder weapon was a long rifle.

94
00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,520
Speaker 1: How in the world would somebody scale that with a

95
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,360
Speaker 1: long I mean, that's not what they would typically do.

96
00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,400
Speaker 1: But Fred, when he first entertained that is the first

97
00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,400
Speaker 1: time we started to look at him as somebody that

98
00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,200
Speaker 1: might know more about this crime. Well, the same with

99
00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,080
Speaker 1: Alex Murder. You've been around the justice system literally your

100
00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,640
Speaker 1: entire life, literally, and you're gonna sit down with these

101
00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,640
Speaker 1: officers and not demand did they go do their job

102
00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:27,600
Speaker 1: and find this person. It's baffling his attitude. Did he

103
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,360
Speaker 1: interrupt the officer, I know that you know, and then

104
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,640
Speaker 1: causing David. I mean, he's very cavalier about the whole thing. Matxe.

105
00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,040
Speaker 1: Ronnie Victor joining us lawyer for the Satterfield family. And

106
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:42,039
Speaker 1: as you will recall, Alex Murlog volunteered to represent the

107
00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,200
Speaker 1: Satterfield family after the housekeeper and really the woman who

108
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:52,000
Speaker 1: helped raise Buster and Paul fell down the steps at

109
00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,800
Speaker 1: the Murlock home and there was a lawsuit and Murlog

110
00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,320
Speaker 1: volunteer to handle it for the Sadderfields. Turns out of god,

111
00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,000
Speaker 1: I think it was four million dollars and never handed

112
00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,279
Speaker 1: any of it over to the center Field children. Well,

113
00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,320
Speaker 1: this is a lawyer that represented them. Ronnie, again, thank

114
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,000
Speaker 1: you for being with us. What do you make of

115
00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:17,119
Speaker 1: Alex Murdog's let me just say non verbal behavior, because

116
00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:21,120
Speaker 1: if somebody asked me, did you murder your husband or

117
00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,760
Speaker 1: did you murder your son John David or your daughter Lucy,

118
00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,160
Speaker 1: I would be doing a backflip. But he is sitting

119
00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,360
Speaker 1: there with his arms crossed and his legs crossed. He

120
00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,520
Speaker 1: never misses a bait, he doesn't get upset, he doesn't

121
00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,440
Speaker 1: even blink an eye. Well, what I interpret from that

122
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,360
Speaker 1: is just the strength of the home court that he's on.

123
00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,240
Speaker 1: You need to appreciate who he is and where he's located.

124
00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,160
Speaker 1: I mean, these murders in Hampton County, in Colleton County,

125
00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 1: they are kings of the county. They ruled for a

126
00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,080
Speaker 1: hundred years. They held that seat the solicitor's office, and

127
00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,400
Speaker 1: he is very comfortable in that setting. He's comfortable in

128
00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 1: the courtroom at which he's in right now. When it

129
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,680
Speaker 1: was time for the jury panel to be generally qualified,

130
00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,360
Speaker 1: he showed up in the morning and acknowledged the jury panel.

131
00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,800
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a guy who's there charged with

132
00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:19,560
Speaker 1: double homicide, and he turns to the veneer and acknowledges them,

133
00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,680
Speaker 1: waves to them as if they are his people. So

134
00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,840
Speaker 1: you're seeing someone who is very comfortable in his setting. Guys,

135
00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:34,480
Speaker 1: the shift in evidence quickly goes toward the actual murders

136
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,800
Speaker 1: of Paul and Maggie. I want you to take a

137
00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,280
Speaker 1: listen to a witness on the stand for the state.

138
00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,679
Speaker 1: This is doctor Kenneth Kinzie, and he is talking about

139
00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:51,360
Speaker 1: Paul still standing after the first shot, after the first

140
00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:56,120
Speaker 1: gunshot wound in our cut five here along the floor.

141
00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,640
Speaker 1: What you see, you're passive or ninety degree blood droplets.

142
00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,439
Speaker 1: And when blood, you can tell a lot of them

143
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,760
Speaker 1: from the direction of blood by the way it strikes

144
00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:12,000
Speaker 1: an object. Blood has a cohesive factor. It's viscous and

145
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,520
Speaker 1: you probably heard that term before with the motor oil

146
00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,720
Speaker 1: for your car. It's thicker than water. And the thing

147
00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,320
Speaker 1: that causes that blood droplet to change shape is the

148
00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,480
Speaker 1: friction and the direction and how much force was used. Well,

149
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,800
Speaker 1: the ninety degree drop just is exactly that it's perpendicular

150
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,160
Speaker 1: to the ground. So these ninety degree drops right here

151
00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,760
Speaker 1: tell me that Paul, who was standing there for a moment,

152
00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,560
Speaker 1: can't tell you how long, but those drops were running

153
00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,600
Speaker 1: down from that wound on his arm. And you can

154
00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,559
Speaker 1: see these ninety degree droplets here here, and then they

155
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,600
Speaker 1: actually lead to the door. He's not moving very fast

156
00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:53,360
Speaker 1: because most of them are almost perfectly circular or ninety degree,

157
00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,640
Speaker 1: So I know he was moving slowly and I know

158
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,360
Speaker 1: he was standing in the middle of this room for

159
00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,040
Speaker 1: some time after he the first shot gun. One wow,

160
00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:24,320
Speaker 1: that is an incredible analysis by doctor Kinsey Crime Stories

161
00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:29,760
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, and today we have with us one

162
00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:36,000
Speaker 1: of only sixty International Association for ID certified blood stained

163
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:41,800
Speaker 1: pattern analysts in the world, one of only sixty the

164
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:46,199
Speaker 1: author of a visual guide to blood stained pattern Analysis

165
00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,640
Speaker 1: blood Stained pattern Analysis for death and crime scene investigators.

166
00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:56,120
Speaker 1: With me is Jeff Gentry. Jeff, it's a real honor

167
00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,480
Speaker 1: and pleasure to have you on today, and I'm sure

168
00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:03,079
Speaker 1: you have been studying the murdog testimony. But what doctor

169
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,640
Speaker 1: Kinzie just said, when he's saying it, it makes perfect

170
00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,240
Speaker 1: sense in a moment later, sly White, what did he

171
00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:14,120
Speaker 1: just say? Could you please explain how he can look

172
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:18,760
Speaker 1: at this incredibly bloody crime scene and tell us one

173
00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:24,240
Speaker 1: Paul was still standing after the first gunshot wound, So

174
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,880
Speaker 1: his testimony was great. Mister Kinsey did a great job

175
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:28,840
Speaker 1: on the stand. He was nice and cool and collected.

176
00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,320
Speaker 1: So what he's looking at is the patterns, and so

177
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,199
Speaker 1: that's what blood pattern analysis is all about. It's identifying

178
00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:40,080
Speaker 1: patterns within sometimes a very big, messy scene. So he

179
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,560
Speaker 1: could tell that Paul was upright because these blood stains

180
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,240
Speaker 1: when he sustained that first gunshot wound, He's bleeding almost immediately.

181
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,520
Speaker 1: A shotgun wound is obviously very devastating, so it's going

182
00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,440
Speaker 1: to cause trauma. So he's bleeding right away. It's it's

183
00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,439
Speaker 1: falling from up high off the ground. That's what he's

184
00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,240
Speaker 1: talking about when he says it's creating circular state on

185
00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,000
Speaker 1: the ground. So it's individual bloodstains that he could tell

186
00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,360
Speaker 1: were under the influence of gravity and they're being deposited

187
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,320
Speaker 1: on the ground. They make essentially circles on the ground.

188
00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,199
Speaker 1: So we know he was upright for some period of time.

189
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,840
Speaker 1: We don't know exactly how long would white white, white

190
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:22,599
Speaker 1: white white. Jeff say, you're talking so quickly, it's like

191
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:24,880
Speaker 1: drinking from a fire hydrate. It's too much, too fast.

192
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,000
Speaker 1: I think what you just said in regular people talk

193
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:36,000
Speaker 1: is that due to the circular nature of certain blood drops,

194
00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:43,120
Speaker 1: you are extrapolating that those are blood drops that just

195
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:49,319
Speaker 1: dropped down from the wound. It's not spatter from a

196
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,920
Speaker 1: high impact that goes all over the wall in a

197
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:57,440
Speaker 1: fine spray. It's actually blood droplets. Is that what you're saying, Yes,

198
00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,840
Speaker 1: that's right. So he's looking at both the size of

199
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:07,720
Speaker 1: the bloodstains as well as their appearance their shape. So

200
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:12,760
Speaker 1: an impact, when you subject blood to force, say for example,

201
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,120
Speaker 1: a gunshot or a beating, it's going to break that

202
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,679
Speaker 1: blood up into little blood drops that are going to

203
00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,840
Speaker 1: create little bloodstains, and in this case, there were some

204
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,120
Speaker 1: smaller bloodstains. We could talk about those, but these stains

205
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:30,480
Speaker 1: in particular, they're larger bloodstains and they're circular, so we

206
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:35,560
Speaker 1: know that there wasn't some contributing force that created those. Okay, wait,

207
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,520
Speaker 1: you're saying their blood drops like somebody has a nose

208
00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,080
Speaker 1: blade and a drop of blood falls straight to the floor.

209
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,640
Speaker 1: It falls and it lands in a little circle, not

210
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,360
Speaker 1: a perfect circle, but a little circle as opposed to

211
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,560
Speaker 1: dipping your hand and spaghetti sauce and fling it to

212
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:58,520
Speaker 1: the wall. It has an elliptical shape based on which

213
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,920
Speaker 1: way you throw it. Would you agree with that, Yes,

214
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,199
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. It's a great description. Okay, Okay, So

215
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,360
Speaker 1: the fact that it is Paul's blood because it has

216
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,040
Speaker 1: been tested with DNA, so we know that there are

217
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,280
Speaker 1: drops vertical drops on the floor of the kennel, which

218
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:19,880
Speaker 1: means he was still standing. Correct, that's correct, That's exactly right.

219
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:24,040
Speaker 1: WHOA and then hold on, Jeff, oh please go ahead. Well,

220
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,840
Speaker 1: the other thing that he brought up was that there

221
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,800
Speaker 1: was a footwear impression in the blood. So after he's

222
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,840
Speaker 1: depositing these bloodstains on the ground. He's probably making his

223
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,440
Speaker 1: way towards the door, trying to escape or maybe trying

224
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,880
Speaker 1: to see, you know, the person who shot him, and

225
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,480
Speaker 1: so he's making his way to the door before he

226
00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,440
Speaker 1: got shot again. So that is also really important because

227
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,040
Speaker 1: it shows that this wound wasn't his fatal wound. He's

228
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 1: upright bleeding, he steps in his own blood, probably in

229
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 1: a panic, and then as he's exiting the door, he

230
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:02,920
Speaker 1: probably saw his shooter. He probably saw, we believe, his

231
00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,400
Speaker 1: father shooting him for the second time before it happened.

232
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,000
Speaker 1: Jeff Gentry, you said there was some kind of mark

233
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,280
Speaker 1: in the blood. What did you say? What was the

234
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,000
Speaker 1: mark and the blood? I believe mister Kinsey said that

235
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,280
Speaker 1: there was a footwear pattern that was in the blood

236
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:20,240
Speaker 1: that somebody had stepped in bloodstained after they were deposited

237
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,400
Speaker 1: on the ground, and based on his description, it sounds

238
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,600
Speaker 1: like it was Paul's shoe or footwear that made that impression.

239
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,400
Speaker 1: So he's stepping in his own blood as he's bleeding,

240
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,640
Speaker 1: trying to escape that room before he gets shot again.

241
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,680
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, you have been in the courtroom many times

242
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,720
Speaker 1: when a murder trial will be going on. Has there

243
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,600
Speaker 1: ever been a witness so great that you just wanted

244
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:50,880
Speaker 1: them to keep talking? Absolutely? Absolutely, And this witness like

245
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:56,320
Speaker 1: man I was phenomenal job at not just explaining everything,

246
00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,120
Speaker 1: but explaining it in a way that the jury can

247
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,640
Speaker 1: completely unders well. I was actually talking about, Jeff Gentry

248
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:08,280
Speaker 1: because the way you described that about you know what,

249
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,440
Speaker 1: just to be sure. And then I'm going to go

250
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:16,280
Speaker 1: to you doctor Michelle Duprie is joining US pathologist, medical examiner,

251
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,080
Speaker 1: former detective. I've got dueling books by experts, Hers's Homicide

252
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,480
Speaker 1: Investigation Field Guide. Could you go through that one more time,

253
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,640
Speaker 1: Jeff Gentry, And then I'm going to get doctor Dupree

254
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:32,800
Speaker 1: to weigh in on the actual wounds to Paul's body

255
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,800
Speaker 1: and how that will coincide and fit in with your

256
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:42,400
Speaker 1: analysis of the blood on the floor and what if anything,

257
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,840
Speaker 1: it may mean about the drops and about how you

258
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,680
Speaker 1: believe Paul was moving toward the door. And please go

259
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,680
Speaker 1: slowly for me. I'm just a lawyer. Absolutely, Nancy, thank

260
00:16:54,720 --> 00:17:00,360
Speaker 1: you so. Based on mister Kinsey's description and bourtroom, Paul

261
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,880
Speaker 1: sustains the first gunshot wound while he's in the room,

262
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,800
Speaker 1: he's obviously several feet inside of the room. He sustains

263
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 1: a gunshot wound to the chest that was with the

264
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,480
Speaker 1: buckshot ammunition. So it's going to create multiple wounds to

265
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,400
Speaker 1: the body at close range, and so those wounds are

266
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:24,200
Speaker 1: going to start bleeding. We don't see the impact spatter

267
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 1: that you would in some cases, but it's more passive bleeding.

268
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,199
Speaker 1: So his heart is still beating. He's obviously starting to

269
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 1: go into shock. He's in a panic, and so this

270
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,280
Speaker 1: blood is starting to drip out onto the ground. Hi, Chris, say,

271
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,080
Speaker 1: let's say the blood as he's talking about it. Okay,

272
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:46,320
Speaker 1: go ahead, please. And so as the blood is dripping

273
00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:51,480
Speaker 1: onto the ground, it's creating circular bloodstains. And then obviously

274
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,560
Speaker 1: he's trying to make his way to the door at

275
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,360
Speaker 1: some point because he steps in his own blood. So

276
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,320
Speaker 1: he's standing there long enough to drip blood on the ground,

277
00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,080
Speaker 1: and then with his own shoe or own footwear whatever

278
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,639
Speaker 1: he was wearing, he steps in that blood makes a

279
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,240
Speaker 1: footwear impression, and then he makes it to the door,

280
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,159
Speaker 1: and we know he's still upright because of the second

281
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,800
Speaker 1: gunshot wound and where it hit him. But my assumption

282
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 1: is is that at that point he's trying to escape

283
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,800
Speaker 1: and he likely sees the person, probably his own father,

284
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,240
Speaker 1: as he shoots him again for the second time, that

285
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,560
Speaker 1: fatal wound that pretty much exploded his head. Okay, to

286
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:32,719
Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Duprie, as i mentioned, pathologist, medical examiner, former detective,

287
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,399
Speaker 1: and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide joining us from

288
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,800
Speaker 1: there in the jurisdiction South Carolina, she knows all of

289
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,199
Speaker 1: these locations like the back of her hand. So, based

290
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,720
Speaker 1: on what Jeff Gentry just explained to us, doctor Duprie,

291
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:52,399
Speaker 1: could you now overlay Paul's wounds that he sustained to

292
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,520
Speaker 1: corroborate what Gentry just said, Yes, Nancy, and that makes

293
00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:00,320
Speaker 1: perfect sense because the first shot that was fired's not

294
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,919
Speaker 1: a fatal shot. We know that that one into the chest,

295
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,960
Speaker 1: and we know that that's going to bleed almost immediately.

296
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,800
Speaker 1: That blood, as he mentioned, is going to drip down

297
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,320
Speaker 1: and make those circular type patterns those we know were

298
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 1: the ninety degree patterns. That second shot, however, is the

299
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:20,359
Speaker 1: one that entered that left shoulder sort of tangentially as

300
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,359
Speaker 1: Paul is beginning to move and he's slightly turning, probably

301
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,280
Speaker 1: in order to get that tangential shot. That tangential shot,

302
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,760
Speaker 1: the second one hits his left shoulder, goes up through

303
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:36,200
Speaker 1: the back basically of his head, not injuring the front

304
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 1: part of his face, but injuring the back of his

305
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 1: head and of course dislocating the brain. And that is

306
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,399
Speaker 1: the fatal wound which would cause him to immediately drop

307
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 1: to the ground and move no more. Okay, Doctor Dupree,

308
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,280
Speaker 1: can you now explain what you just said as it

309
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:59,359
Speaker 1: relates to Gentry's description of the blood. Yes, Because again

310
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,359
Speaker 1: that first shot, which is not fatal, is going to

311
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 1: allow Paul to be standing. Paul is going to start

312
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 1: bleeding immediately. The blood is going to travel downward because

313
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,199
Speaker 1: of gravity, and it's going to basically drip on the

314
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 1: floor below Paul. As Paul begins to move slowly. Because

315
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,760
Speaker 1: this was not a fatal shot, those blood drops are

316
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 1: going to continue to move toward the door. The second

317
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 1: shot is fired, and this is the one that is

318
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,080
Speaker 1: the fatal shot. But because this is a significant injury,

319
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 1: it is going to cause blood spatter to move forward

320
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,880
Speaker 1: and spatter on the surrounding surfaces like the door. In addition,

321
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 1: that's going to cause more bleeding and it's going to

322
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 1: cause Paul to drop to the ground immediately, and basically

323
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,119
Speaker 1: that is what would end his life. He would no

324
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 1: longer be moving. Wow, the way that you and Gentry

325
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 1: just explained it, it's crystal clear. And based on the

326
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 1: injuries Paul sustained, and based on the blood pattern, added

327
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:11,920
Speaker 1: to the trajectory of the bullet the path in which

328
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 1: it traveled, it is now deduced that the shooter was

329
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 1: in the feed room doorway when Paul was shot. They

330
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 1: can tell that based on the blood and the injuries

331
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,919
Speaker 1: and the trajectory path of the bullet. Take a listen

332
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 1: to our cut six in your review of the crimes

333
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:41,199
Speaker 1: in evidence, did you come to any conclusion about the

334
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:46,159
Speaker 1: location of the shooter when that first buckshot blast struck

335
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 1: Paul in his chest. It would be hard to say exact,

336
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 1: but I can say to a bare minimum, the breach

337
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 1: of the shotgun because I don't have the shotgun. I

338
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 1: don't know the length of the barrel kind of thing,

339
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 1: or I could run it from the door. But the

340
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 1: breach of the shotgun where it ejects the shot shell

341
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 1: casing after it fires, was somewhere inside the door, because

342
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 1: it had it been on the other side of the

343
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,719
Speaker 1: door of the shot shell would have been located outside.

344
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: So depending on the link to the shotgun, at least

345
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 1: I can say the dejection port was inside the door

346
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: of the shell. Okay. And now this is what he

347
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 1: means by that. You can have a saw it off,

348
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,479
Speaker 1: you know, where the barrel is that long. You can

349
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 1: have a long and barrel. Then of course you have

350
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 1: the butt, but the ejector it's what we're interested in

351
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,679
Speaker 1: because he's talking about where the casings fell. Okay, Sheryl McCollum,

352
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 1: a crime scene expert, explain why. This expert says, when

353
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: Paul was shot, the shooter was standing in the doorway.

354
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 1: And this is very significant, Sheryl. It is significant when

355
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: that shell is exited from that weapon ejected, it's going

356
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 1: to go back about, you know, two feet from the right,

357
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: so it's going to go right and back a little bit.

358
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: So if it's inside that seaed room, the ejective port

359
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 1: was also inside that seed room. So if you're thinking

360
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 1: the barrel is anywhere from twelve to eighteen inches, like

361
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: he said, he can't he doesn't know for sure, but

362
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: you can pretty much tell from the wound in his chest.

363
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: It was an assault off situation. It was probably an

364
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: intact rifle. So again you take the length of that barrel.

365
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 1: This person was right up on Paul, but they had

366
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: hidden himselves inside that room. Okay, guys, I'm hearing in

367
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: my ear that we are now being joined by Nicholas

368
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 1: Reagan anchor reporter with live five joining us. Hey, Nicholas,

369
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Nicholas, I bet you

370
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 1: could have heard a pine drop in that courtroom when

371
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 1: this came out. Nicholas, take a listen to our cut

372
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: seven about once the second shot was fired, Paul never

373
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 1: moved again. Listen. Once Paul received that second shot, he

374
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: never walked again. He never made any movement. Any movement

375
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: he made was involuntary and it was due to gravity

376
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: pulling his body down to the ground. When you sustain

377
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 1: an injury to your brain like that, that ceases all movement.

378
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: So he was found outside the feed door. He fell

379
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:28,199
Speaker 1: over forward after sustaining that movement. Some wounds are fatal.

380
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: Later you can actually see someone that receives a fatal

381
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 1: wound and they I've seen him run a hundred yards.

382
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: They can move for a little while. This is not

383
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: that type of wound. Once he received this wound, it

384
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: ceased all movement and Nicholas o'reagan joining us. Nicholas, Now

385
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: we heard doctor Michelle Dupree put a little perfume on

386
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 1: the pig. She said that Paul's brain was dislocated, his

387
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: brain was down by his feet. What was the jury

388
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: reaction when that testimony came out? You know, you're right.

389
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 1: This has been a day that has been very much

390
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: different to the days earlier in the week where the

391
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: jerry almost seemed to have gotten lost in some of

392
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: those very technical details. But definitely today the jury much

393
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: more attentive, much more focused, and you highlighted it there

394
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: one of those moments when the when Kinsey was mentioning

395
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: how that second shot to Paul was instantly fatal and

396
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: he fell just outside of that feed room door. It

397
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: was very quiet, it was very solemn in there, and

398
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: of course the jury was just honed in on everything

399
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: that Kinsey was saying throughout all of this, because he

400
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: was such an incredible witness, and he continues to bring

401
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: more and more both technical expertise but also in a

402
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: way that every day people came understand. So you nailed

403
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: the you hit the nail on the head there when

404
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 1: you when you said you could hear a pin drop

405
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: in the courtroom, especially for that moment, you know. Ronnie

406
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: Richter joining me, South Carolina lawyer, high profile lawyer, veteran

407
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: trial lawyer. Hey, he's representing the Satterfield family, Ronnie. It's

408
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,959
Speaker 1: one thing for us to all discuss the angle, the

409
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 1: trajectory path, the what each blood spatter or spot or

410
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: droplet means, and what does it prove and where where

411
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: did the what was the ejection path from the shotgun?

412
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: But when I'm thinking about something that was just said

413
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: by a witness, no, actually it was by Jeff Gentry

414
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: out of Fresno. He saw the shooter, probably his father,

415
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: I couldn't help but think about my own son and

416
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 1: my own daughter, because that's what's happening here. And very often,

417
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: Ronnie Richt, we get caught up and oh, what does

418
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: this blood drop prove? And what can I prove by

419
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: the ejection path and the trajectory path and on and on.

420
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: But these are real people. This is someone's son that,

421
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 1: according to the state, turned around and saw his father

422
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 1: on the wrong end of a barrel. Yeah, Nancy Europe,

423
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 1: your reasonable person and I think what you're articulating is

424
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt, and it is the first of many reasonable

425
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 1: doubts that the defense is raised in the case is Actually,

426
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: that's not at all what I was saying. That's not

427
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: at all what I was saying. I was saying the

428
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 1: shocking nature of turning and realizing it's your father, If

429
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: it's your father, if it's your father, I can for

430
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: me still if I have a criticism of the state's case,

431
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 1: and I think they're doing a fabulous job, but too

432
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: many dots, not enough lines. So I've yet to see

433
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: the connection that ties it back to Alex And I

434
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: think one place where the what about him being there

435
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: in the kennel, the crime scene about three minutes before

436
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: the murders, the gunshot residue on his clothes, in his hand,

437
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: the blood on his steering wheel, the lying about his alibi,

438
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: the intimidation of witnesses, the money motive, none of that

439
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: is connecting the dots for you. I don't know that

440
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: it's enough. I don't know that it's enough because you

441
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: have to overcome what you just said, that the thought

442
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 1: that someone would actually do that to their son, face

443
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: to face, close range gun under the chin blow the

444
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: back of his head off. And the question that still

445
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: lingers is why, you know. I get it, he's under

446
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: financial pressure. We uncovered those financial crimes, we brought forward

447
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: the evidence that led to many indictments against him into

448
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: his disbardment. So I'm very familiar with those financial crimes.

449
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: But does financial stress lead someone to break so badly

450
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: that they literally blow their son's head off without any real,

451
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: any real strife in that relationship. That is still a

452
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: bridge that I think the state has to cross. Okay

453
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: to Sheryl McCallum, I hate to break it to Ronnie Richter,

454
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: but I've prosecuted a lot of child homicides and the

455
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: killer is the father and or the mother a lot

456
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: more than I even want to think about abuse, child molestation, sawomy,

457
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: pimping your kid out, getting your kid high, beating your kids,

458
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: starving your kid, killing your child. That I see it

459
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: every single day of my life. Maybe everybody else has it,

460
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: but I have, So it's not that hard for me

461
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: to embrace the state's theory. Do you have an entire

462
00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: system set up, entire agency set up because children are

463
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: abused by their parents. There's no question this happens all

464
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: the time. What is shocking here for everybody? It isn't

465
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: used to our world, Nancy, is it? Paul absolutely not

466
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: only solved shooter. He probably spoke to him White before

467
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: he was shot. Because Paul turned around, That's why he

468
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: was shot and kick so something got his attention. And

469
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: not only did he know who the killer was when

470
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: he turned to try to leave and get away, he

471
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: knew what was coming there. And there's the other issue,

472
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: Nicholas Reagan joining me, Nicholas not only well, and I

473
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: hear Ronnie Richter arguing, look, you gotta give me more.

474
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: If you want me to believe a father killed his son, well,

475
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: I'll give you some more. What about not just his

476
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: own financial world crumbling in, but a multi million dollar

477
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: lawsuit filed against him by Mallory Beach's family because of

478
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: that son, Paul. And then, amazingly, Nicholas, after Paul is

479
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: murdered not long after that, there's a settlement and the

480
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: Mallory Beach case because who you're gonna put on the

481
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: stand Paul's did. And not only that, wasn't there evidence

482
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: that Marlog had a fifty thousand dollars a week opioid

483
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: addiction yeah, you know, you're you're talking about Curtis Eddie Smith,

484
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: cousin Eddie as lots of folks like to refer to

485
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: him to. And that was actually how we started the

486
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: day was with the defense sort of trying to backtrack

487
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: with the judge and saying that they hadn't opened the

488
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: door to that specific case. Of course, the judge said, yes,

489
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: you did. You did that yesterday when you mentioned Smith

490
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars a week. You know, they referenced

491
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: that that was in relation to debts that Smith owed

492
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: that he was getting money from Murdoch. But Smith had

493
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: all of these, all of these debts to one of

494
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: the gangs down here for drug money. But the state

495
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: has argued that of course they the gang wasn't concerned

496
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: about Murdoch and wouldn't have wouldn't have actually killed him

497
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: because they knew that he was good for the money.

498
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, that was sort of one of

499
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: the one of the back and forth. The defense has

500
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: always sort of hinted that somebody else, well they have

501
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: plainly hinted that somebody else committed these these homicides and

502
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: maybe suggested that it was a gang down here that

503
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: did it. Of course, we hadn't seen any evidence actually

504
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: presented of that, but um, certainly the defense is sort

505
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: of trying to do this, uh defense through confusion tactic

506
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: where they just continue to pick away and ask questions

507
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: of all these witnesses to really again just try and

508
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: create fusion. We'll have to wait till they actually call

509
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: their own witnesses to see us. Do I have this right?

510
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: And this is a yes, no question. The defense is

511
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: pursuing the line of inquiry that because cousin Curtis Edward

512
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: Smith owed money to a gang, the Cowboy Gang, and

513
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: apparently they spell their name coowbo I just to be different,

514
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: the Cowboy Gang. Okay, so Curtis Edward Smith owes money

515
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: to them, so they come kill Alex Murdog's family. Doesn't

516
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: make any sense. How did they even know the family

517
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: was going to be there that night? Remember? How would

518
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: they have known that Maggie didn't even want to go

519
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: and Murdog talked her into it guilt of her out

520
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: about his father getting sick. So the theory actually is

521
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: going to be that the Cowboy Gang Murdog doesn't owe

522
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: them any money, but they come killing his family because

523
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: of Curtis Edward Smith. They killed the family of the

524
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: cash cow Murdoch. You're absolutely right about that. You know.

525
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: The defense again hasn't specifically said that, but that's sort

526
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: of almost what they've been kind of hinting at, is

527
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: that there was Okay, somebody else killed Molly, Maggie and Paul.

528
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: Who was it? Well, maybe it was one of these

529
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: gangsters down here. We just got know it right, And

530
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: you know what, maybe it's my producer sitting over there.

531
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: Maybe Sidney did it. Hey, Chary McCollum, what about that

532
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: theory the Cowboy gang did it. It's gonna washed out.

533
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: And the reason is in orders to do a hit

534
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: where you send a message, everybody has to understand it.

535
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 1: It's got to be real clear. Nobody in the first day,

536
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 1: the first week, the first month, nobody mentioned any gang

537
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: related hit. Nothing. There's not gonna be anything from the

538
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: Department Corrections, does not going to be anything on line

539
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: didn't happen. What in the deal and killing Maggie and

540
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: Paul would not have sent them message to cousin Eddie

541
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: about any drug related money. I mean, if they wanted

542
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 1: to get back a cousin Eddie. Curtis Edward Smith, they

543
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: would kill his family or his dog, or burnt his

544
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: house down, not Alex burnocus, go ahead, doctor Duprie, exactly,

545
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: and Nancy, there was no other evidence at the scene

546
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: of the crime for anyone else being there. In addition,

547
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: Alex was there within about four or so minutes of

548
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: the murders and he saw or heard no one else.

549
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: It just doesn't make sense, guys. Also, because of a

550
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: line of questioning the defense pursued earlier on, the state

551
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,439
Speaker 1: had to come in and address the theory that Paul

552
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: committed suicide, which makes no sense at all. But I

553
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: want you to take a listen to our cut eight.

554
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 1: Did you see any support or evidence in this crime

555
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: scene that could support that the injuries suffered by Paul

556
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: or in any manner a suicide or self inflicted. I

557
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: don't see the possible ability, knowing that it's not a

558
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: contact shotgun wound, and I'm fairly strong, and I'm bigger

559
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,439
Speaker 1: than Paul was, and I don't know if any way

560
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: you could hold that shot gun out and shoot yourself

561
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: in that direction at that angle and put that biological

562
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: material on top that door like that, I don't think

563
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: it's possible Jeff Gentry joining us from Fresno Forensics crime

564
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 1: scene investigator, could you address the testimony you just heard

565
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: absolutely so. Over the course of my career, I've investigated

566
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: well over three hundred to three hundred and fifty suicides,

567
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: many of them with gunshot wounds. And so you would

568
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 1: first have to explain how he was shot in the

569
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: chest from a distance, and then that's unexplainable for a

570
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: self inflicted wound. And then the trajectory that was calculated

571
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: by mister Kinzie would also have to be explained that

572
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: it was from a distance of three to four feet

573
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,879
Speaker 1: away and then at an upward angle, and that's near impossible.

574
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: So everything about the scene suggests that somebody else from

575
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: a distance shot Paul, not that any of this was

576
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: self inflicted. There was no evidence at the scene to

577
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 1: explain a self inflicted wound. You know, yesterday we talked

578
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: a lot about Curtis Edward Smith called cousin Eddie, that

579
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: the judge would not allow his evidence of the so

580
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: called roadside shooting where Murdog reportedly bargain with Eddie to

581
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: shoot him in the head to get life insurance proceeds

582
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: for the surviving son Buster I don't think that was

583
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: the reason he did it. But that said, today there

584
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: was a huge about face. Christine, could you please play

585
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 1: our cut one. The judge has now reversed that decision.

586
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: Take a listen. Or Griffin introduced the relationship between the

587
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: defendant and Eddie Smith. The court conducted a pre trial

588
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 1: hearing outside the presence of the jury address the issue

589
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: made made it clear that the roadside shooting was a

590
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: bridge too far. Then the defense decided to build a

591
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: road over that bridge, as if they could dance through

592
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: fire without getting burns, guard or anything. The door was opened.

593
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: Defense sought to introduce the relationship between the defendant and

594
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: Eddie Smith, and then to seek to infer that Eddie

595
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: Smith might have been should be a suspect in the

596
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: murder state as entitled to and explore this relationship. You know,

597
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:04,240
Speaker 1: I hate it, Ronnie Richter, fellow lawyer, when lawyers dashed

598
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: around the courthouse throwing around fancy legal phrases. But I'm

599
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: going to use one right now. Boy, did they screw up?

600
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: I mean big time. Explain Ronnie. Yeah, it's a major gaff.

601
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: So the opening the door concept is when a party

602
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: has successfully convinced a judge to keep out of evidence

603
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: matters that would be damaging to them. They opened the

604
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,479
Speaker 1: door by asking questions about the very same subject matter

605
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: that they just got the court to exclude. And that's

606
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: exactly what happened here. The defense does not want anything

607
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: in evidence about that roadside shooting for a good reason,

608
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: so they successfully blocked that from the trial. And then

609
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: right on top of that, they followed up by asking

610
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: questions about Alex's relationship with cousin Eddie and went so

611
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: far down that line that the judge correctly reversed and said, look,

612
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: I kept it out for you. You asked me to.

613
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: But if you're going to, if you're going to ask

614
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 1: questions about the same subject matter, then the doors now

615
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: open again. And so we're going to get into the

616
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 1: roadside shooting, which I do think is pretty damning for

617
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: Team Murdo. You know what, when I would explain legal

618
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: concepts to juries, I like to use illustrations, and in

619
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 1: this case, I want to use the illustration of a vampire.

620
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: We all know vampire lore, don't we. Well, a vampire

621
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: can't get well, everybody in the studio is shaking their head. Yes,

622
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: you know, a vampire can't get into your home unless

623
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: you invite them in. You know that, right, don't you

624
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 1: know that? Ronnie Rector, I do know that. Okay, See

625
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: you know that right. So it's a jury, So the

626
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: state could not bring in under the law a prior

627
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: bad act, that's reputation that has no bearing on this

628
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: murder trial unless and until the defense opens the door

629
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:54,359
Speaker 1: by bringing it up, no matter how tangentially themselves. And

630
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: that's what they did. They go, judge, Judge, judge, don't

631
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 1: let the state bring in the roadside shoot where Curtis

632
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: Edward Smith shoots murdog in the head for money. Don't

633
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: And the judge says, you know what, You're right, And

634
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: then they turn right around and try to frame Curtis

635
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 1: Edward Smith and the Cowboy gang for the murders. I mean,

636
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, twenty four hours had not even passed by.

637
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: They get the evidence out and then they open the

638
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: door to let it come in. And it's coming in, Cheryl, Oh,

639
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 1: it's coming in. Well, please me. And it's gonna be

640
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: remarkable once they outlined this with the totality of everything

641
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: else they have, I think it's gonna be a remarkable

642
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,720
Speaker 1: testimony and Nicholas Reagan can we talk about something. Nicholas

643
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: joining us from WCSC Live five. You can find them

644
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Nick Reagan Live five. Nicholas, I don't

645
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: buy that whole theory that Murdog wanted Curtis Smith to

646
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: shoot him in the head to get insurance proceeds for

647
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 1: his surviving son. Buster number one, are we sure there

648
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: was insurance proceeds? But number two, when it's Murdog ever

649
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: thought about anybody else other than himself. I think the

650
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: roadside shooting was set up so cops could then be

651
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: misled to believe, oh, the shooting of Maggie and Paul

652
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: was boshed. They were trying to get Alex Murdog, That's

653
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: what it was. So he's been the target all along,

654
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 1: not he's the killer all along. I think that he

655
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: was shot to throw off suspicion from himself. Daisy. I

656
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: think everybody thought that they when that news came in

657
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: that he was definitely a diversionary tactic to sort of say, hey,

658
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: the family is being targeted. But I want to go

659
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: back to something that one of your earlier panel has

660
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: said about that Letting opening the door. Letting this testimony

661
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,879
Speaker 1: come through. I believe it was mister Eric Gland who

662
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: tweeted himself that he thinks that the defense is not

663
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 1: stupid and that they did this on purpose to try

664
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: and goad the the state into bringing Smith to the stand.

665
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: Of course, you know, Smith brings all sorts of issues

666
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: for both sides. So you know, is this a tactic

667
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: the defense is attempting to to to actually get Smith

668
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: on the stand. Well, we'll just have to wait and

669
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: find out. I can tell you that as of this morning, uh,

670
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: we were told by a source close to all of

671
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: the how the witnesses come in that Um Smith was

672
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: was not being prepared to take the stand today. Of

673
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: course he still could, but it wasn't necessarily on the

674
00:43:46,120 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: schedule for sure. Time stories with Nancy Grace, you know,

675
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: Ronnie Richter. One concern I had about the defense opening

676
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: the door to Curtis Edward Smith's testimony is if it

677
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: had been allowed in the get gout. At the get go,

678
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: an appeals court could have said, oh no, no, you're

679
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: taking the jury with prejudicial information that was not probative

680
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: as to the murders. But now that the defense basically

681
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: begs for it to come in by opening the door.

682
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 1: That sets up an appeal on ineffective assistance of counsel. Well,

683
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: he could, and I tend to believe it was a gaff.

684
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 1: I think they just went too far with the cousin

685
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 1: Eddie evidence after they'd successfully kept it out. I do

686
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: think if there is a conviction in the case, when

687
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: the jury hears the facts about that roadside shooting, the

688
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: entire setup is so ridiculous that he fakes a flat tire,

689
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: he gets Eddie come by and take a shot at him.

690
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: This has nothing to do with suicide for hire. He

691
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: calls nine to one one to report that some stranger

692
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: just drove by and tried to kill him. It's obvious

693
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: that he is trying to set up the false narrative

694
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: that the Murdoch killer is still at large and now

695
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: Alec is being hunted. And he's doing that because he's

696
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,240
Speaker 1: trying to get the hounds off of his trail, because

697
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 1: he knows from that interview in August that they're focusing

698
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:31,399
Speaker 1: in on him. So innocent people don't set up elaborate

699
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 1: lies like that. No, but he should have been out

700
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: hunting for the real killer. I'm Christine, just look and

701
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: see if you have Murdoch's nine one one call from

702
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 1: the roadside incident because the man has been shot in

703
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 1: the head. He's talking about how he was shot by

704
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 1: a stranger and he had been changing his tire, blah

705
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: blah blah. Following the dispatch, lady says, well, sir, were

706
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: you shot? Because he's talking about everything other than hey, lady,

707
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: I got shot. He's saying everything, but and to talk

708
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: to Michel du Pree, pathologist's medical examiner. Former detective kim On.

709
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 1: Remember he had a lawyer trot out and say, oh,

710
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: he's had a brain injury. You know, all these horrible

711
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: injuries had occurred from the roadside shooting. He came into

712
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: court a couple of days later with a band aid.

713
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: It was a band aid, not one of those big

714
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: gas bandages around your head. He had a little he

715
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 1: might as well had a door a band aid for

716
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: all I here. It was a band aid that big.

717
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: That was the injury exactly, Nancy. I mean, this was

718
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 1: this was obviously a setup from the very beginning, and

719
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,439
Speaker 1: when he did come into court with that band aid,

720
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: it was it was totally obvious. And again, you know,

721
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: if someone was really trying to shoot to kill him.

722
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: They would have done a better job. They would have

723
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: taken a second shot, you know, they would have shot

724
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: him the right the first time. This was such a hoax. Yeah,

725
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: I was just because we just were talking about that

726
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,720
Speaker 1: go ahead. Yes, the suitors should have done like Alec

727
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: and shot more than one second. If the defense is

728
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: going to call cousin Eddie, it will be a fail

729
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: because what it will do it will show the jury

730
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: that their client associates the criminal. The other thing, the suicide,

731
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: that was also a fail to even entertain that for

732
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: a moment. Normally, if somebody takes the weapon and blows

733
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 1: their brains out, the weapons right beside them, there was

734
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: no gun there, So logic will tell you, guys telling

735
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: this jury. Therefore, guys, Christine managed to find the Nie

736
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 1: on One call because she's amazing. Please listen tomorrow, logue

737
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: on this NIME on one call. Listen. Okay, what's going on?

738
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: I stop? I got a flat tire stopped. Somebody stopped

739
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: to help me, and when I turned my back, they

740
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: tried to shoot me. Oh okay, will you shot? Yes?

741
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: But oh man, I'm okay you shot? Where where were

742
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 1: you shot it? Huh? Did they actually shoot you? They

743
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: tried to shoot you. They shot me? Okay, did you

744
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: guys hear that? He starts it off. The man has

745
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: been shot in the head, all right. This lawyer trots

746
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: out to say he's got a brain injury. And the

747
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 1: first thing he says is, oh, I got a flat tire.

748
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 1: What is that what you're talking about, Cheryl McCollough. I mean,

749
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: I got the shot in the head, and I thought

750
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: the guy could come back and shoot me again. That

751
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 1: would be the last thing I would be worried about.

752
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 1: It be flying through those woods where he had pulled

753
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: everybody the side of the road and trying to hide

754
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: for Pete's sake at Bluely. And when he's asked, where

755
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: were you shot? He pauses, Uh, that's his answer. Why

756
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 1: wouldn't he be screaming for help? I was shot in

757
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: the head. Get somebody out here, he does, And once

758
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: Curtis Edward Smith is on the stand, the floodgates are

759
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: open now about him being Murdoch's drug dealer, about fifty

760
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 1: grand a week spent on drugs. And you know, Ronnie Rictor,

761
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: let me circle back to you, young man, because you're saying,

762
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,280
Speaker 1: how could a father do this. How about a father

763
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: that was high out of his gourd on opioids. What

764
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 1: about that rictor? Hey, look, Nancy, I'm still I'm not

765
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: saying he didn't do it. I am in the camp

766
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: that believes that he did. I'm concerned that the state

767
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 1: is not satisfying his burden. But if the cousin Eddie

768
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: roadside shooting comes in and the jury gets a sense

769
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 1: that these are the links that the guy went to

770
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: just to get the hands off his trail, I think

771
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: it's going to be the thing that pushes it over

772
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: the top. And not for nothing. He was driving a

773
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: brand new Mercedes with run flat tires. The entire setup

774
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: is such an obvious ruse. Again, innocent people don't go

775
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: to these links to try to create this false narrative

776
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,240
Speaker 1: that someone's hunting them. Well, it proves one thing about

777
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 1: Alex Murdog. Well, it proves many things. But it also

778
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: proves when he's in a jam, he pulls a gun.

779
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 1: That's what happened there. He wanted cops to think he

780
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 1: was a target, so he has somebody pull a gun. Um,

781
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 1: let me ask you a couple of lightning around questions.

782
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: Ronnie Richter these are yes. No. I know that's hard

783
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 1: for a trial lawyer like you and myself to answering yes, no,

784
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 1: but you agreed that a reasonable doubt does not mean

785
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: any doubt, any doubt or to as Do you agree

786
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 1: with that? Do you agree with that, Ronnie? Absolutely? And

787
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 1: isn't it true to and isn't it true that you

788
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: just stayed out? I'm in the can he did it?

789
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 1: I think he did. Didn't you say that? I did

790
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: say that? Okay, So okay, So if you think you

791
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 1: have deduce, if you have deduce murdog is, murdog Is

792
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: guilty of double murder in the case, hasn't the case

793
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable doubt he did it? You believe he

794
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: did it? No, it has not been proven to me.

795
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: And there's one there's one missing piece. I still have

796
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:13,720
Speaker 1: trouble with the two weapons, all right, I'm having trouble

797
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,399
Speaker 1: with two weapons, one shooter, both of the weapons being

798
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: long rifles. I don't have a problem with it at all.

799
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 1: What about a doctor, Michelle Dupre, You and I have

800
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 1: gone over and over that theory. I don't have a

801
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: problem with that at all either, because I think again,

802
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: it was a forensic countermeasure. I think that he set

803
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 1: this up beforehand. It's very easy to go from one

804
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: gun to another. I think actually he didn't want to

805
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: take the time to reload after he shot the shot

806
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: Paul the first time, so it made sense to have

807
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: two guns. It's simply a forensic countermeasure. It means nothing.

808
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 1: It was absolutely not two shooters. Guys. Let's address Maggie's

809
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 1: wounds before we have to go back in the courtroom. Christine,

810
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: could you please play cut nine. Her fatal wounds were

811
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,919
Speaker 1: she had an abrasion or a burn on the left

812
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: side of her abdomen from the outside end. That bullet

813
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 1: followed a straight path. It entered the end of her

814
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: breast and did extensive damage to the end of her breast,

815
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 1: entered her lip jaw, side of her face area, and

816
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: went into her brain. That's the first fatal injury, and

817
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: it was immediate and she dropped right where she was at.

818
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: I saw no evidence that her body had been manipulated,

819
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: moved or rolled over. The second fatal injury was down

820
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: into her head, and it actually did in the day,

821
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:39,240
Speaker 1: they'd call a keyhole injury. Just from appearances. The entrance

822
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: and exit in the top of her head was so

823
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 1: close it made one big injury, and then it entered

824
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: into her up her shoulders and went down into her body.

825
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 1: That would have also been a fatal wound, but it

826
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: was second in my opinion. Jeff Gentry, are you convinced,

827
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 1: based on what you just heard from doctor Kenzie that

828
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 1: Maggie was down when she was shot fatally in the head. Yeah.

829
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 1: So I heard mister Kensey give some testimony that there

830
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 1: were some blood flows down her leg that would indicate

831
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: that at some point she was upright when she was

832
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: shot initially, But both of those fatal wounds, she was executed.

833
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: Whoever shot her wanted her dead and wanted to make

834
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 1: sure that she was dead, shooting her multiple times with

835
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 1: multiple fatal wounds, but no doubt that she was on

836
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: the ground and died a pretty horrific depth there at

837
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: the scene and from my experience, and I'd like to

838
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: hear everybody else's way in on this. If you have

839
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 1: a different theory multiple gunshot wounds to the head, I mean,

840
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: you know the person is dead after the first gunshot.

841
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: Why do you keep shooting? Why do you shoot someone

842
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 1: over and over and over? That in my mind is

843
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 1: a crime of passion to keep shooting them. I mean,

844
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: you know, a random burglar or a hit. No, you

845
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 1: don't see repeat gunshot wounds. Now, a lot has been

846
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 1: made about what many have said it's a tire impression

847
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: on Maggie's leg. We heard that from the defense and

848
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:20,479
Speaker 1: cross examination. Let's put that to rest. Take a listen

849
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: hour cut ten. Tell me what these images were flat

850
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 1: that is at pilaris ATV side by side that I

851
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: mentioned to your expert opinion that this mark on the

852
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: back of Maggie's leg is a tire impression and not

853
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: anything else anything tire treat impression. That is my opinion

854
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:42,360
Speaker 1: in your opinion based on these very significant mirror images

855
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: and accidentals and that sort of thing. Was that personality

856
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 1: that specific tire tread that's on the back of it

857
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 1: is most likely that tire. If it's not that tire,

858
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 1: it's a similar tire with the same tread design. I

859
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 1: saw no evidence that she was run over, so she

860
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 1: had to make contact at some point in time. Yes,

861
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: isn't it true, doctor Dupree. If she had been run over,

862
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,240
Speaker 1: she would have other bodily injuries, but there were none.

863
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 1: So what are they trying to say doctor absolutely, Nancy. Actually,

864
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: I think this is sort of a red herring. I

865
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: think that it means nothing. I think she probably just

866
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 1: backed up against the tire to the ATV. It wasn't

867
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 1: even a bruise. It wasn't there when the pathologists examined

868
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 1: the body. It was just dried mud or dirt on

869
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: the back of the leg. I don't think it means anything.

870
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: And guys, we now know based on what our expert

871
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 1: Jeff Gentry and doctor Michelle Dupree and doctor Kenzie say,

872
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 1: Paul Sheeter was standing in the doorway we believe of

873
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: the kennel, But what about Maggie's shooter. Take a listen

874
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:53,320
Speaker 1: to our cut eleven. And you never served the Almina

875
00:55:53,400 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 1: property for any signs of murder, evidence, bloody clothes or

876
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: anything until well after sometime in mid to late September.

877
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 1: Is that correct? That is correct? Well, if a thorough, tight,

878
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 1: quick prompt investigation had been taken front of the Moselle property,

879
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 1: the route to Almeta and the Almeta property, that could

880
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,919
Speaker 1: have possibly excluded Alec from this circle, couldn't it if

881
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:30,879
Speaker 1: you found no evidence of guns, bloody clothes or anything. Right,

882
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 1: if you know what you're looking for and where to

883
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: look and have some type of information that would lead

884
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 1: you to that area. Yes, and that opportunity was missed.

885
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: Would you agree with that? I wouldn't say it was

886
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 1: missed because it wasn't known about other than Okay, what

887
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get is cut eleven and this was

888
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 1: flagged on social media. Murdoch apparently nodding as the pathologist

889
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: talks about a bullet through Paul's arm, and we hear

890
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: about wadding, which tells us where the shooter was at

891
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 1: the time. Um, take a listen to our cut eleven.

892
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:13,919
Speaker 1: It's not about raise your left arm for me, please.

893
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: So and his arm was not raised, but I want

894
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 1: to point out it comes out. We'll go to see

895
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 1: some pictures in a minute. Okay, hearing a little bit

896
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: this one. So it would have come out right under

897
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 1: his arm. Yes, we do have the acid talent room

898
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: stack and we also have wadding, do we not. Yea,

899
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 1: we have flatting stuck in the arm under side of

900
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 1: his stack, and then it goes through his arm. Yes,

901
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: he's still coming front to back. Um, well it's from

902
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 1: it's left right, but there is a slight front to

903
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: back because we don't have we have some eggs rooms

904
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: on the back. Okay, that's what everybody's talking about on

905
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: social media right there, Alex Marny going yeah, yeah, yep,

906
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: that's the way it happened. All right, guys, I'm hearing

907
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 1: in my ear. I'm not going to get to play

908
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: that sound for you that would possibly indicate where the

909
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: shooter was standing when Maggie was shot, because I'm being

910
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: told everybody is heading back in the courtroom. People are

911
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: starting to go back into the courthouse main entest right now,

912
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 1: getting ready for the jury to come in. So we've

913
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: got to go to thank you for being with us

914
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: today for our live lunch. Let's go back in the

915
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: courtroom by everybody. Thank you.