WEBVTT - Steve McQueen 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:04.440 Welcome to Ruthie's Table for a production of iHeartRadio and 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:14.120 Adamized Studios. Sitting here in the River Cafe on a 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:18.400 Sunday Monday morning, with chefs in the kitchen making ravioli, 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:22.079 with hiroles and waiters laying tables in the garden, the 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:28.280 uncertain world we live in feels miles away. The artist 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:32.120 and filmmaker step mc queen does not separate the world 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:35.040 of beauty and the world of suffering in any of 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:41.720 his work political oppression, slavery, sexual inequality. Steph and I 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.600 met in nineteen ninety nine when he won the Turner 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.239 Prize for his radical video art, and we once had 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:53.040 dinner together with President Obama. It was clear that the 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.960 only person President Obama was interested in talking to with 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.600 Steve mc queen, and he didn't want to share him 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:03.920 with anyone else. Now, a few years later, I finally 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:08.240 have Steve McQueen all to myself, and being a generous person, 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:15.160 we'll share him with you. Steve and I share a 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:20.160 hero in Paul Robeson. We share the same concerns for 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:24.000 equality and justice and food, and today we're going to 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:26.880 talk all about that and more. Thank you, Steve. 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:28.360 Thank you for inviting me. 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:32.600 Tell me about growing up in London. You lived with 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:36.160 your parents in West London and what did you eat? 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:38.800 Yeah, we grew up. I grew up in the first 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:42.839 leship with Bush, West London. My relationship with food really 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:46.320 starts with the market. I was the kid who was 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.760 carrying the bags behind their mother, you know, because basically 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.480 I would have to go with her, because you know, 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:54.600 I was the sort of textra pad hands a character. 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:55.680 Shopping back home. 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.000 Food was a way of actually getting to do London 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:01.720 because it's someone had said to my mother this, you know, 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:03.960 you could get so and so sea based in this 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.520 market for this amount of money, she will be there. 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:08.480 So people used to talk about where can they get 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:10.800 particularly kind of food and fresh produce. 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:11.480 Yeah. 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:12.720 Where was your mother born? 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:15.880 My mother was born in Trinidad, but she grew up 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:18.480 in in Grenada, and my father was born in Grenado. 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:20.640 How old were they when they came to London. 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:24.360 My mother was about fourteen fifteen. I think she's about 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:26.280 fifteen when she came to London. I think in the 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:28.679 early sixties, and my father was a little bit older. 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.639 I think maybe it was about twenty one. I don't 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:33.600 know when I think he came early sixties too, but 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:34.639 not not at the same time. 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:37.639 And so do you think her mother had taken her 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:41.119 to the market. As you say, the market does introduce 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:43.560 us to a culture, that introduces us to a city. 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:45.840 It's the first place I always go when I go 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.120 to any town in any city in any country. But 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.240 tell me more about the smells of the market and 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.560 what it looked like for you and your mother's experience 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:55.200 of the market. 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:58.240 Well, in fact, what happened was that a lot of 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:01.239 majority of people for coming from way did this headline, 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:03.959 and they grew their own food, you know, and look 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.520 after you know, the animals and so forth and whatnot. 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.919 And fishing was a big part of the culture too, 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.239 because obviously my mother lived on the coast in a 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:14.880 place called Stears and was a very big fishing spot there, 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:16.400 you know, it's called a fishing village. 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:17.640 Food was very. 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.840 Much directly sort of to do with who they were. 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:23.720 So when they came to London, of course looking for 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.840 good food was very important. And you know, we used 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:29.160 to go to all kinds of bloody markets all over London. 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:31.160 I so, I said, I met up with it. 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:33.720 I said, missed my football focus on the sacle because 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:35.000 I had to go to the market with my mum. 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:37.440 It was something which I remember. 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.040 There was all different cultures, you know, it was didn't 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:41.920 You had the sort of you know, the. 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.400 Londoners and the white Londoners and the Indian, you're the Jewish. 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:47.840 You had all kinds of people. It was fabulous. It 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:49.760 was really kind of cool, Tobe. 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:52.440 When you would come home from the market. What would 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:54.400 you eat? What would they cook from the market? 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:59.360 Oh, if you get dashing, you know spinage? You know again, 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.200 you know you cook? I mean my my my favorite 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.480 was like a nice stewed chicken. I'm not a special thing, 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:10.240 I'm roty, just you know, Oh my god, what was it? 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:14.400 A beautiful It's like a nice stew fish. And I 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:15.880 used to love what was this? This one thing I 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:18.200 used to love very much was a vegetable? 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.080 What was it? It was? I love? I love? 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:25.320 It was all kinds of exotic stuff. I mean I 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.000 say exotic because it was familiar to me. But my friends, 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:29.960 my wife, friends, and what was that was this? 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:31.359 Was this? Yeah? 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:32.679 Who cooked in the house. 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:34.840 My mother cooked, my father cooked. My father was a 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:35.520 good cook too. 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:39.479 He took pride in the Christmas Ham. 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:40.680 That was his job. 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:44.000 There was a particular way of cooking that came from 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.360 because he's uncle was a butcher in the West Indies, 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:47.920 so there was a particular way of cooking the ham. 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.640 I can't even prescribe it now, but it's all close, 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.039 all into indented in all everywhere. 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:58.800 It was almost like sort of a ror movie. Marvelous. Yeah, 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:00.000 great cooks, great cooks. 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:02.800 Did you cook with them? Was it a family affair? 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:04.080 Would you all cook together? 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:06.600 I mean I loved being with my mother in a 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:08.680 kitchen because somehow I love to help out. 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:10.600 I love to sort of be I don't know, I 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:11.400 love to love that. 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.320 So I can't say that I'm a great cook, but 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:16.839 I was a very good shoe chef, a bit of 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:18.080 a neat and tidy person. 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.760 Would they entertain? Would friends come over? Did was there 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:22.720 that feeling. 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.680 When people did come over? It was? It was a 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:26.800 lot of family and fair and well. 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:28.200 I think most of the things I used to do 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:29.840 when the people's come up with them would just listen 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:31.960 because there was always always that would come out that 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:33.960 my parents will never talk to us about, of course, 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:36.880 but always because adults will talk to adults, so therefore 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:40.200 them find out about sort of how what was going on? 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:46.160 Or when you left this very comforting family meals where 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.320 you were cooked for and you ate together. What was 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:51.320 that like when you left home? Where did you live? 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.279 I was actually near you, guys. Actually I was in Fulham. 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:56.960 I was just around the corner from me. I was 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.360 with his girlfriend and she was great, was a very 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.200 important girlfriend of mine. Her name was Anuke. She was 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.640 a Swiss. And then she had discovered this restaurant, this 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:12.880 place called Malati, the Indonesian place and so, which was delicious, 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.719 It was gorgeous, and that was my first restaurant. 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:16.800 And she that was your first restaurant. 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:18.800 I think that was one of my first restaurants. Yeah, 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:20.600 I think I was about nineteen years old. 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:24.080 And after that the restaurants become part of your social life. 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:25.240 Did you love restaurants? 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:26.240 Absolutely? 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:28.960 I mean, what's great about I mean now, I suppose 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:30.880 in London it wasn't so when when I was growing up, 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.919 we didn't have that was the world, I think, and 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.280 to be introduced to the world through food and of 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.600 course good company, that's always the main ingredient for going 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:42.479 to a restaurant. So that was wonderful and then we 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:44.520 got to know. So we've got a lot of restaurants 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.680 and so we got to know. I remember during that time, 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:51.760 miss early nineties, early early nineties. Yeah, and also in 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:52.599 the East then too. 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:56.599 Yeah, what about an arts school? Was that revelation? 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:57.560 Yeah? 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:01.200 I mean, you know, canon bitter cheese and bag it. 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:04.320 I mean that was that was kind of like interesting 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:07.440 because again there was an addition to waste in this cheese. 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:08.320 I mean the cheese. 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:09.280 I was crappy cheese. 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:11.840 You know, you can imagine a sort of a big block 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.440 of something which they called cheese. But getting to them 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.200 cheese was interesting during my time at Foundation at Chelsea. 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.600 I mean, it's a kind of interesting life change, isn't 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.320 it between this going to the market with your mother 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:26.800 and carrying the bag and coming home and cooking and 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:30.360 then sitting down and eating and then having independence and 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:34.559 having to fend for yourself and discover life out there. 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.400 Did you go home? Would you return home for the 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:38.200 home cooked meal? 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:40.760 Yes? I used to love going home for food. 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:45.800 My goodness, I said, oh, oh, my goodness, I used 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:48.640 to love it. It's just it's just the sort of yeah, 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.680 it was difficult because at first it was how do 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:54.560 I cook? What do I cook? I was on the 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:56.080 phone to my mom, Mom, how do I do this? 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:57.960 Mom? I do this? My Mom, I do that. So 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:00.360 a lot of coals up. 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:02.960 Making sort of soups and things like that, and how 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.600 do I season them? Because I can't. For granted, I 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:07.320 said to be a shoe shop, but I wasn't really looking. 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:10.400 It wasn't really studying, yea, So a lot of phone 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:22.080 calls basically back round, Welcome. 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:25.920 Back to River Cafe, Table four. In each episode, my 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:28.960 guest reads a recipe they have chosen from one of 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:34.840 our cookbooks. We chose spinach and peas, So would you 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.199 like to go for it and tell the world how 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:38.479 to make it? 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:44.720 One kilogram fresh peas in their pods, extra virgin olive oil, 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:51.920 one garlic cloth peel and diced, one dried red chili crumbled, 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:57.960 one knogram of spinach, washed tough sports, removed. 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.080 Pid the piece and blanche them in plenty of boily water. 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.240 In Italy, no one ever cooks vegetables. 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:08.600 Absolutely only past it. 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:12.440 So rather than blenching these peas, boil them so that 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:16.480 they almost melt together with spinach and the olive oil. 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:23.880 Gorgeous. So now Steve, here we are and we're going 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:27.280 to talk about the series that has just been on 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:30.679 television that we've all watched and been so moved by. 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.160 Small acts. You tell the story of a local restaurant 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.880 constantly harassed by the police. Is that a memory or 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:41.560 is that? Can you tell me about the restaurant, the 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:43.400 politics and the series. 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:44.800 Sure, well. 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:48.800 The Mangrove Restaurant was a restaurant run by Frank Critchlow 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:52.400 in Lambergrove on All Saints Road, and he opened a 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.559 restaurant in nineteen sixty eight and it was a sort 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.360 of home away from home restaurant. You can imagine, as 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:01.880 I said before, the peaceeople wanting the sort of the 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:05.160 taste of home and had a vibrancy of having sort 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:06.880 of like many people wanted to sort of come to 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:09.920 a place to eat and to sort of commune with 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.920 each other. So it was a place of refuge in 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.520 it in a way. You know, the vibe, the vibes 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:16.880 that came out of there, and it was just one 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.760 of those places which became very infectious if people wanted 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:21.320 to go. It was it was it was something which 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.600 was which was which was on the scene and unfortunately 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:28.800 the police and the authorities that be obviously didn't like 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.160 what was happening at this place because again it was 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.079 you know, it was people from the Western Ears, it 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:38.480 was working class people, it was the thinkers, it was 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:42.120 sort of activists were coming there and also the hoy eploy. 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:43.920 So all these people. 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:48.720 Coming to this spot and talking over food, having ideas 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:51.800 and obviously that was something which the authorities didn't like, 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.800 and therefore they tried to disrupt disrupted as much as 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:57.040 they could. You know, it was a case of the 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.680 people not wanting certain ideas having a foot in the UK, 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:02.800 and they thought that the Mangrove was a place where 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:04.839 those ideas could sort of take root. 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:09.079 There's something about doing that kind of discussion as well 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:12.360 over food. And one of the things that I see 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.560 in the restaurant is that somehow being out of your house, 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:19.760 being away from your domestic life, being looked after, gives 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.920 you the chance to really focus on a conversation. Do 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:24.920 you find that in a restaurant. 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:29.240 Absolutely absolutely, And there's a sense of, I don't know 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:33.800 what is it. Purpose, you're there, you're present, there's another 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:37.280 person there and present, but also actually just a listen. 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.959 It's just a case of being in an environment where 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.760 you are you know, you feel comfortable in order to 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:46.480 say things and listen. 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:50.880 And also I've talked to various people in business and 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.760 in film and creating movies or making deals. I mean 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.560 when I always quote is Michael Caine who said that 0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.960 he never did a deal for a movie in America 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.600 that didn't take place in a restaurant. And he said 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.720 that was very Hollywood. Do you work in restaurants? Do 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:08.720 you like to meet people that you're going to work 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:10.040 with in a restaurant? 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.960 First, I love it, but that doesn't happen often. 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:16.880 I mean, I think it's sort of it's a classy 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:18.880 way to do anything, isn't it. And also I love 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:21.439 it because growing up in the art world. What was 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:23.640 wonderful about growing up in the art world is that 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:28.360 artists never paid for dinners, never because you're the artist. 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:29.760 And it was amazing. 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.520 In fact, I think that's how I grew up in 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.800 food in an an interesting way. It was through the 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.720 art world. It's completely different to the film world. I mean, 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:40.720 you know the fact that you you know, you might 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.439 go crappy sang which you're you're you're lucky. But in 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:45.360 the art world, it was always the best wines. It 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:47.480 was always the best food. You know, if it was 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:49.640 an opening or even a meeting, it was always the 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.559 best restaurant. And that was a huge education. Absolutely. 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:56.719 I was thinking about making movies and the movies you've made, 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.880 and of course here we are talking about food and 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:04.280 eating and the joy of being taken care of through food. 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.599 And then I think of the movie that you know, 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.920 was so earth shattering, which was Hunger, And so we're 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.959 talking about a movie called Hunger and the state of 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:19.199 hunger and somebody put their principles and politics above comfort 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:23.400 and as a political act actually starved themselves. So what 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.560 was it like making a movie that was the absence 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:28.400 of food as a political statement? 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:34.440 Heavy? I mean, for me, it was again it's food 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:35.080 is interesting thing. 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.319 I related to that in a way that of being 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.600 a child, in the way that you know, the often 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.679 only power a child has is frailing to eat his 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:52.000 or her mother saying you're not leaving the table until 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:55.040 you finish that plate, and the child sort of you know, 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:59.680 refusing to eat, and then you're sent off the bed, 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.520 you know. And it's interesting because you know what what 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:04.679 you know, the clothes you wear that as a as 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:06.160 a child of a cerdaden age, what time you go 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.920 to bed, what food you eat is chosen by your parents, 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.439 and the whole idea that this child, the power this 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.559 child has is to refrain to eat. That was my 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:18.000 relationship in some ways to Bobby Sands and hunger strike, 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.080 that the power that person had was to refrain to 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.160 eat every since it was a child. I remembered asking 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.280 my mom when I saw this image of Bobby's Sands 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:26.440 on on television with a number beneath his image, and 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.160 asking my mother, what's what's what is that? How oldest 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:30.720 person is? Because no, that how many days this person 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:33.000 has been on hunger strike. So there was an immediate 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:36.080 relationship with the story and it was, yeah, it was. 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.680 It was difficult, but I think Michael Fans been there, 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.240 you know where cars is. Bobby Sands was tremendous and 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:42.960 that was a bond up you know we have to 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:46.280 this day. It was a real kind of a labor 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:46.600 of love. 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.680 And what are the food scenes in your movies? In 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.240 twelve years a slave? There's a scene, isn't there at 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:53.080 the dinner table? 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.720 I seem to remember, Yeah, there's lots of I think 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:57.200 there's lots of food in my films. I mean you 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.840 can see after that is shame the two characters, Brandon 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.120 and any sort of a possible girlfriend or at this 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.560 dinner table and this waiter, annoying waiter comes in every 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.520 five seconds to interrupt them. I remember that from having 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.840 lots of dinners in New York and every five seconds 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.120 one becomes in the middle of something was getting bigger. 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.640 You know how conversations are. They had to get to 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:16.920 that point, you know. 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.280 It's always it was commercial buddy breaks every five seconds. 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:20.840 You have to start from a scratch every five minutes. 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.720 So it didn't make for a good eating experience. So 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.040 I put that in the movie What do you. 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:26.760 Eat on a film? 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:26.880 So? 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.880 Do you hate stopping for lunch when you're filming? 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:30.400 No? 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:32.960 I think it's fantastic. I mean, what was so wonderful 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.640 when I started filmmaking and there hunger and sharing in 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.000 twelve this it's like all the actors and all the 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.600 crew will eat together. We did the people in their 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:45.040 buddy trailers in that crap, everyone lead together. There's something 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:52.640 about communal eating and it's about weed. It's such a 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.480 unifying thing to see, you know, the hear and makeup 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.720 and the camera department and tune up, furity and sitting 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.080 at a table together and talking about the film or 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:07.560 talking about things. There's a camaraderie. It's only time often 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:09.960 when you're sort of on set together that you had 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:13.840 that sort of time, you know, when you're sitting together 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.360 eating and it's fun. 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.800 It's fun. I love it. 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.800 Year three is an exhibition that was at the Tate 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.160 and I went to see it three times because every 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.680 time I went back I saw something something different in 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.120 the expression of a child of a teacher. It really 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:41.160 told the story of the world we live in through 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.840 these photographs. And one of the issues that I think 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:48.520 is very important is that when we had the lockdown 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.120 a year ago, one of the things we learned that 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:55.080 when children were denied school, they were also denied food, 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.600 and they were denied food at lunchtime, which might have 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:03.120 been their only meal of the day. And the idea 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:07.000 that we have a society that children depend on having 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.400 their food away from the home because of the poverty 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.960 in the home is appalling and shocking and distressing everything else. 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:16.879 Yes, absolutely, I mean I had schooled this which I 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.960 paid for by my mother. That's why even today I 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:24.520 like hot meals. I love hot lunches, I mean, and 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.000 they were vital. They were vital there were children. I 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.560 know for a fact that that was the main meal 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.520 of the day, if not the only meal of the day. 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:35.840 And this is with our bottle of milk in the 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:37.879 morning before missus snatcher took it away from us. 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:38.480 Yeah. 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:41.159 Yeah, I love school meals in that way. Also, just 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.920 because we're such a good laugh in the canteen, you know, 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:49.119 I associate food in school with good times. And I 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.639 can even remember the smell of it, the canteen and 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.920 the noise and the cutlery banging together, and it's so important. 0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:57.320 You know. 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:00.600 Also, people have to sort of really tip the hat 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:03.200 to Marcus Rashford and what he did in the sense of, 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:05.320 you know, getting the government to sort of stand down 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.879 twice about the school mill because you know it can 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.040 This is you know, if we can't look after people 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:13.199 we can't afford to eat, then I don't know who 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.920 we are as human beings. That it took a footballer 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:17.399 to do that is kind of a bit you know. 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:19.600 There you go, everyone has got to step up in 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:21.399 your own way I suppose if people aren't doing their 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.200 job properly, that meaning the government. And also, don't forget 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.320 this again, It's just one of those things I feel 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.560 that you know, everyone is unfortunately not brought into this 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:32.800 world equally. But if you just give someone the possibility 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:35.440 a little bit of a shaft of light, one doesn't 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.600 know where that might lead them to. So, yeah, the 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:39.600 fact that people actually have a meal in the stomach, 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:45.480 you know in Britain, Yeah, it's more than important. One 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.600 thing I was very shocked by when I was shooting 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.159 in Chicago, shooting widows, was how I didn't see a 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:55.560 grocery store in a black neighborhood. I didn't see any 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.119 greens in a black neighbor you know, there wasn't a 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.040 green grocers, but there was always some sort of fast 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:03.320 food place where people eat. 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:06.200 So people are losing this sort of heritage of food. 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.880 People are not aware of food and nourishment and possibilities 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.280 within food. And food is politics in a way, it 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:17.240 reverts back to what we were talking about right at 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:21.320 the beginning of a conversation. It starts with like, in 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:24.320 a way, markets, because markets, a lot of markets are 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:27.000 on the threat. A lot of markets have closed. So 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:30.080 this sense of community, sense of promarderiate, a sense of 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:34.040 sort of love of food and love of each other 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.760 is being sort of erased in the sort of you know, 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.600 working class areas. I mean, you get these markets, but 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.399 they're so they're kind of like posh markets, aren't they. 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:45.560 They're sort of farmers markets, they call them. And you know, 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.800