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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, it's Friday night and

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Speaker 1: it is special.

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Speaker 2: What does accused assassin Luigi Mangione have to do with

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Speaker 2: the world's largest fashion retailer Shine? Okay, wait for it,

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Speaker 2: wait for it. Remember Luigi Mangioni. He's behind bars for

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Speaker 2: gunning down a healthcare ceo, leaving behind a widow and

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Speaker 2: two boys because he was quote angry at the insurance system.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was born with.

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Speaker 2: A silver spoon in his mouth, was educated within the

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Speaker 2: Ivy League prep schools all the way, has been baking

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Speaker 2: in the sun in Hawaii by the ocean, living in

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Speaker 2: a high rise, not working a lick, and then he

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Speaker 2: comes to Manhattan guns down a hard king ceo. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's Luigi Manngioni. But what does he have to do

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Speaker 2: with Shine? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I

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Speaker 2: want to thank you for being with us. In the

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Speaker 2: last days, the alleged assassin was pictured beaming white rephrase.

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Speaker 2: In the last days, the alleged assassin was pictured smiling

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Speaker 2: for the camera wearing a white floral patterned button up shirt.

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Speaker 2: In the image of the In the image on the

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Speaker 2: Chinese I can't say that, okay. In the last days,

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Speaker 2: the alleged assassin has been pictured smiling for the camera

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Speaker 2: wearing a white floral patterned button up shirt and it's

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Speaker 2: apparently a Shine article and it states underneath it Men's

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Speaker 2: news spring summer short sleeve blue ditzy floral white shirt

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Speaker 2: pastoral style gent something he's wearing that he's modeling that

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Speaker 2: for ten dollars and thirty nine cents. He's wearing a

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Speaker 2: Maha men's striped short sleeve shirt for eight seventy seven.

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Speaker 2: What Luigi Mangioni is now a cover model for Shine?

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Speaker 2: They say, know what they say, no way, and I

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Speaker 2: think I know why they don't want to be associated

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Speaker 2: with Luigi Mangioni.

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Speaker 3: Earlier this morning in Altoona, Pennsylvania, members of the Altuna

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Speaker 3: Police Department arrested Luigi Mangioni, a twenty six year old,

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Speaker 3: mail on firearms charges. At this time, he is believed

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Speaker 3: to be our person of interest.

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Speaker 2: From what we understand, McDonald's employee and Altoona in western

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Speaker 2: Pennsylvania spotted the guy and thinks he looked like the

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Speaker 2: health Boss assassin, probably trying to use a fake ID

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Speaker 2: in a McDonald's.

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Speaker 1: According to law enforcement and the New.

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Speaker 2: York Post the man being eyed for the cold blooded

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Speaker 2: execution of Brian Thompson. The guy has a gun, a

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Speaker 2: silencer for fake IDs, and other items consistent with what

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Speaker 2: Ellie was looking for in the case.

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Speaker 1: But is it him? Does he match this description?

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Speaker 2: According to a McDonald's employee, he does?

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Speaker 1: What else do we know? Where?

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Speaker 2: Is Altoona, Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, two hundred and eighty miles

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Speaker 2: away from Manhattan, a little over a five hour drive.

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Speaker 2: But the manhunt across the nation going in every direction

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Speaker 2: from Manhattan. Divers, drones, you name it, all used employed

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Speaker 2: to find the killer of the health care boss.

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Speaker 1: What led to the detainment of this guy?

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Speaker 2: We also understand that in his possession is a New

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Speaker 2: Jersey ID at fake ID, possibly used to check into

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Speaker 2: that Manhattan hostel.

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Speaker 1: Police press conference listen.

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Speaker 4: A man was taken it to custody today at Altuda,

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Speaker 4: Pennsylvania this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.

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Speaker 4: He's a male, twenty six years old. He was born

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Speaker 4: and raised in Maryland. We know he has tys to

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Speaker 4: San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.

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Speaker 4: He has no prior arrest history in New York. Members

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Speaker 4: of the NYPD Detective Bureau are currently traveling to Pennsylvania

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Speaker 4: with members of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to interview

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Speaker 4: this subject. This case was brought to a successful conclusion

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Speaker 4: based on the co ordinated effort between numerous NYPD units,

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Speaker 4: including the Intelligence and counter Terrorism Bureau, a federal partners

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Speaker 4: at the FBI, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course,

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Speaker 4: members of the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania. On Thursday,

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Speaker 4: one day after this crime was committed, the NYPD released

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Speaker 4: a photo of the shooter in this case. This picture

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Speaker 4: was obtained by the NYPD during one of their extensive

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Speaker 4: video canvases. We took that photograph and we asked for

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Speaker 4: the public's health in identifying this subject, and the public responded.

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Speaker 4: Hundreds of tips began to pour into our hotline. Each

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Speaker 4: tip was investigated thoroughly, and we began to release additional

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Speaker 4: photographs as they came into our possession. The NYPD provided

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Speaker 4: these photos to numerous media outlets, Local, national, and international

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Speaker 4: outlets released a photo via television, print, social media, and

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Speaker 4: online content. Luckily, a citizen in Pennsylvania recognized our subject

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Speaker 4: and called local law enforcement. Members of the Altoona Police

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Speaker 4: Department responded to the call and based on their investigation,

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Speaker 4: they notified the NYPD. This investigation is still and ongoing.

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Speaker 4: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 5: I had a couple questions about the document that he

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Speaker 5: was found in possession with. Can you go a little

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Speaker 5: bit more in depth about those motivations that you mentioned,

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Speaker 5: was that CEO specifically named in that document? Was there

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Speaker 5: anything more about him wanting to go after others? And

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Speaker 5: also in that document, was there any indication that explains

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Speaker 5: us how the level of detail that he went into

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Speaker 5: killing him, like, is there anything else that.

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Speaker 4: That document is currently in the possession of the Ottoon

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Speaker 4: of Police Department as part of their investigation, but just

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Speaker 4: from briefly speaking with them, we don't think that there's

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Speaker 4: any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document,

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Speaker 4: but it does seem that he has some ill will

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Speaker 4: towards Corporate America.

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Speaker 5: Can you point to a single linchpin that help practice case.

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Speaker 4: There's numerous lynchpins in this case. And the fact that

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Speaker 4: we've recovered an enormous amount of forensic evidence, an enormous

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Speaker 4: amount of video, and once again with your help and

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Speaker 4: the public SELP. I couldn't. I really couldn't put it

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Speaker 4: on one thing, but if I had to, it would

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Speaker 4: be the release of that photograph from the media. We

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Speaker 4: had divers in the warter yesterday that came up negative

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Speaker 4: results the passport. We don't believe that he was planning

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Speaker 4: on doing any traveling at this time. We don't think

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Speaker 4: he at this point our investigation, we don't think he

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Speaker 4: was trying to flee the country.

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Speaker 1: Person at McDonald's, were they buying? What were they doing

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Speaker 1: at that exact report?

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Speaker 4: He was an employee at the McDonald's.

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Speaker 6: But what was sucssfect do?

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Speaker 4: He was sitting there reading Nadia from.

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Speaker 1: The New York Post.

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Speaker 4: I was just hoping to get more details of the

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Speaker 4: capture itself.

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Speaker 1: Did he put up a fight?

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Speaker 6: Did he say anything the cops?

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Speaker 3: And we've also recorded that he published online anti health

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Speaker 3: care industry rantings. Can you share with us some of

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Speaker 3: the services that he posted on.

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Speaker 4: We're still working through his social media. We're going to

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Speaker 4: do a complete scrub of that. Preliminarily, like I said,

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Speaker 4: he seems that he has some ill will toward corporate America,

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Speaker 4: but that will all come out as part of our investigation.

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Speaker 4: We're not done here. We're still going to be putting

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Speaker 4: this together. We're still going to be working very hard

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Speaker 4: to bring this to a successful conclusion.

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Speaker 2: A ghost gun, a silence, sir says, and a handwritten

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Speaker 2: manifesto attacking the healthcare industry sounds like our guy.

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Speaker 1: But what else led to this entertainment in Pennsylvania?

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Speaker 2: Hey, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, our renown psychoalyst out

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Speaker 2: of La, author of deal Breaker. You can see her

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Speaker 2: on Peacock Now, Doctor Bethany. The theory that the assassin

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Speaker 2: meant to scatter toy monopoly money over the dead body.

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Speaker 1: That tells me a lot about him.

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Speaker 2: He's got a lot of time sitting in somebody's basement,

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Speaker 2: thinking and plotting. It almost rules out a day job

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Speaker 2: in my mind. But that said, we know he's white male.

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Speaker 2: We know he's got money and a guy that can

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Speaker 2: fund himself cash wise for nearly two weeks in Manhattan.

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Speaker 2: We also know that while he may have meant to

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Speaker 2: scatter fake monopoly money all over the dead body, sending

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Speaker 2: a message as if the nine millimeter bullet didn't do that,

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Speaker 2: he didn't lay the money behind. But he did leave

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Speaker 2: behind a water bottle with DNA and fingerprints on it.

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Speaker 2: He left behind a candy or bar wrapper. He left

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Speaker 2: behind a burner phone. If they can break into that

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Speaker 2: burner flown burner found, that is going to be a

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Speaker 2: tremendous source of evidence.

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Speaker 1: But he forgot to strow the money.

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Speaker 7: Nancy, he forgot it. This guy is obsessional. In the

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Speaker 7: crime world, you may say methodical. I say obsessional, meaning

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Speaker 7: he has been thinking about this for a long long time.

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Speaker 7: When I have a patient like this come into my

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Speaker 7: Beverly Hills office, they usually are enraged at one person

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Speaker 7: and that is all they can talk about. What they

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Speaker 7: would like to do, what the person's look on their

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Speaker 7: face would be like, you know, Nancy, with obsessional paranoia,

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Speaker 7: the person the person sort of alleviates their rage by

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Speaker 7: constantly thinking about inflicting harm on the victim. But I

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Speaker 7: also think although he obsessed about this and planned it out,

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Speaker 7: this was his first crime, he did not He did

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Speaker 7: not think about what it would be like to drop

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Speaker 7: a candy wrapper, drop the water bottle. He didn't have

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Speaker 7: time to plan them. He didn't have time to scatter

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Speaker 7: the monopoly money.

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Speaker 1: This was all in his head. You'd never practiced before.

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Speaker 2: Hey, you know what, Tom Smith, former NYPD knows this

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Speaker 2: area like the back of his hand.

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Speaker 1: Tom the burner, the cell phone.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's an outside chance it's his actual cell phone.

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Speaker 2: But the reports we're hearing is it's a burner phone.

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Speaker 2: Lauren Colin, Yes, no burner phone, actual phone.

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Speaker 1: Burner phone, Nancy, Tom Smith. What I'm coming to you

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Speaker 1: about is the phone? What an idiot? I think Bethany's right.

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Speaker 2: This may be his first time at the rodeo, and

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Speaker 2: you know, like, well, let me think of a good one.

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Speaker 1: Robert Blake, remember when he and his henchman.

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Speaker 2: Got bodyguards, got together and murdered bonding Lee Bakley, And.

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Speaker 1: They had this extensive to do list.

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Speaker 2: Very often you can catch the purp because of their

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Speaker 2: to do list and they're over planning.

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Speaker 1: Right. But the burner phone, they're really hard to break into.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember in the Alexan Burrogg trial they had

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Speaker 2: to bring in the Secret Service to crack his phone.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, and I agree with Lauren. It's a burner phone

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Speaker 8: and who knows what's on there? Yeah, he could just

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Speaker 8: use it for simple things. Again, if he plans it

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Speaker 8: out and knows Berner phones and what to use them for.

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Speaker 8: There may not be a lot on there, but the

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Speaker 8: ability to break in there might not be that difficult

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Speaker 8: because of the low technology that Bernard Phone and Giugi

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Speaker 8: are and the limited amount of information that'll be on there.

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Speaker 2: All the surveillance video, all the pictures that we've got

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Speaker 2: so far, talking on the phone just before the murder. Hey,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, and then I'm gonna follow up with

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Speaker 2: renowned defense attorney Jason Oceans.

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Speaker 1: Dr beth He's not worried. Look at him. He has

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Speaker 1: practiced this over and over and over.

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Speaker 2: He has been watching the victim like a hawk from

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Speaker 2: the moment the victim got into town. This guy knows

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Speaker 2: the itinerary by heart. He knew that there was a breakfast,

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Speaker 2: he knew that that started at eight o'clock. He knew

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Speaker 2: that the victim was going over ahead of time from

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Speaker 2: the Hilton over to the Executive Forum where he was

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Speaker 2: set to speak that morning. Now, all of this surveillance

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Speaker 2: video is from individuals and businesses along the trek.

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Speaker 1: Check it out.

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Speaker 2: So what I'm getting at, Dr Bethany, this guy's cold,

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Speaker 2: cool and calculated.

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Speaker 7: This is definitely cold blooded and methodical, to use the

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Speaker 7: panel's term, Nancy. There's one thing this guy forgot to do.

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Speaker 7: He didn't watch the Nancy Grace Show, because if he had,

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Speaker 7: he would have known that there were surveillance camera's all

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Speaker 7: along that street. And that fifteen minute phone call that makes.

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Speaker 6: Me wonder if this is like the DC Sniper where

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Speaker 6: an older, more ruthless person recruited a younger person, or

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Speaker 6: that he's acting in concert with somebody else and that's

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Speaker 6: why he's on that phone.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Lauren, it was a call fifteen minutes before the shooting,

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Speaker 2: not a fifteen minute phone call.

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Speaker 1: Correct.

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Speaker 9: Correct, The phone call occurred at six thirty am.

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Speaker 2: So doctor Bethany. But I agree with what you were saying.

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Speaker 2: But he did not ye act.

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Speaker 1: For fifteen minutes.

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Speaker 2: It's almost as if he's checking in because I'm wondering

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Speaker 2: is he speaking or is he listening?

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Speaker 1: I can't tell. Plus his mouth is covered right there.

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Speaker 1: And I'll tell you why.

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Speaker 2: Jason Ocean is joining me renow defense attorney joining us

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Speaker 2: out of this jurisdiction. Who also, you and I have

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Speaker 2: walked this track before together at Jason Ocean.

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Speaker 1: So back around por TV and hl N days Jason.

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Speaker 2: The reason I'm wondering if he was listening to something

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Speaker 2: and not talking, I prosecute an arson murder.

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Speaker 1: And just before.

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Speaker 2: The guy burned his mansion down and tried to fake

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Speaker 2: that his wife died in the fire from smoking eilation,

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Speaker 2: he called and checked the weather channel. Jason, I was

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Speaker 2: so happy he called and checked the weather channel to

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Speaker 2: find out if it was going to rain the day

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Speaker 2: he was setting the house on fire. So, for all

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Speaker 2: I know, this guy is checking the bus schedule or

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Speaker 2: checking was And now I know he was not on

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Speaker 2: a flight.

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Speaker 1: I know he was on a bus.

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Speaker 2: But every time I'm headed to Legardia, I call or

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Speaker 2: I check online to see if my delta flight is delayed. Okay,

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Speaker 2: how do I know if he was just checking something

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Speaker 2: or actually speaking to someone. In Bethany's train of thought,

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Speaker 2: what if he called someone it was a quick callment,

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Speaker 2: Hey I'm on the way right now, I'm walking, I

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Speaker 2: just passed Starbucks.

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Speaker 1: It could be that it could be anything.

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Speaker 10: I think the theory that, you know, the potential theory

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Speaker 10: that he was directed by someone and that's why he

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Speaker 10: was on the phone is fascinating and also struck by

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Speaker 10: that his lack of knowledge, you know, the overall aspect

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Speaker 10: of the cameras that are everywhere. I think he didn't

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Speaker 10: plan for that. That was the one thing in this

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Speaker 10: seemingly meticulous planning that was that was not done. But

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Speaker 10: that phone call could be very critical if we can

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Speaker 10: find out if it was an incoming or an outgoing call,

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Speaker 10: and the limited technology it has in the ability to

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Speaker 10: bust that phone up.

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Speaker 2: I got to figure out how the Secret Service actually

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Speaker 2: cracks it.

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Speaker 1: You'd think it would be easy, because you know, Cheryl

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Speaker 1: McCollum with me forensic expert.

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Speaker 2: When I was researching for my last book, Don't Be

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Speaker 2: a Victim, I found out that about I think it

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Speaker 2: was seventy percent or eighty percent, some crazy astronomical number

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Speaker 2: of people still use the factory code that they had

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Speaker 2: on answer machines.

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Speaker 1: They do one two three four is their.

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Speaker 2: Code, or one one one one, or of course sixty

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Speaker 2: nine sixty nine that's tried and true, or let's see

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Speaker 2: lucky numbers that they come up with, like seven seven

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Speaker 2: seven seven. It's so predictable. But then you got somebody

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Speaker 2: like this who's uh, half smart, and he's probably got

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Speaker 2: some bizarre code on his cell phone.

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Speaker 1: The burner.

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Speaker 2: You know how long it took them to crack Alex

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Speaker 2: Murdock's final They had to bring in the Secret Service

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Speaker 2: to do it.

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Speaker 11: Exactly means you look, that phone call could have been

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Speaker 11: something as simple as he called in seek to work

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Speaker 11: because he knew wouldn't, but make it who you can

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Speaker 11: call it? Six forty five am is a very small

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Speaker 11: group of people, So it could have been he's checking

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Speaker 11: the bus schedule because he's believing that morning and wants to.

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Speaker 1: Make sure that's smart's smart smart?

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Speaker 2: Wait, you just you just really gave me clue. Cheryl,

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Speaker 2: Who are you going to call at six o'clock in

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Speaker 2: the morning? Not very many people, Okay, go ahead.

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Speaker 11: Because if you call your mom or a sister or

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Speaker 11: something like that, you're going to scare the day like

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Speaker 11: that of them. So it's got to be somebody that's obvious.

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Speaker 11: So you can leave a message for somebody because you

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Speaker 11: know they're not at work yet, you can check the

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Speaker 11: bus schedule. I'm not as interested in that as I

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Speaker 11: am his other messages. What he wrote on the shellcasing

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Speaker 11: the threat before the murder, the fact that he would

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Speaker 11: choose New York and not the victim home state, why

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Speaker 11: not shoot him at any red light going to work?

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Speaker 2: Oh, Cheryl, Cheryl, you just gave me another tidbit. Hold on,

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Speaker 2: I want to tell everybody. At first we were led

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Speaker 2: to believe that the bullets were engraved in some way with.

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Speaker 1: Deny defend deposed.

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Speaker 2: We now know it was written with black sharp which

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Speaker 2: tells me even more. Do you know that you can

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Speaker 2: get a handwriting sample off of that?

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Speaker 1: Not that I think police are.

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Speaker 2: Gonna need a handwriting sample when they've got fingerprints in DNA,

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Speaker 2: But you never know what might click with the jury.

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Speaker 1: What about it?

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Speaker 11: Chery off one hundred percent? But again, it tells you

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Speaker 11: he took extra time to leave a message on shellcasings.

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Speaker 11: He took extra time to get the monopoly money. That's

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Speaker 11: a message. Shooting him in New York City the morning

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Speaker 11: of that meeting was a message. He could have shot

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Speaker 11: him anytime in his home stated a red light, but

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Speaker 11: he didn't. This is somebody that was a laser focused

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Speaker 11: about his intended target and his motive.

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Speaker 2: Period Crime Stories with Nancy Grace In the last days,

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Speaker 2: the world's single largest fashion retailer, Shine, is trying to

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Speaker 2: get to the bottom of a mystery regarding Luigi Mangioni.

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Speaker 2: The seven year old has of course attracted a huge

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Speaker 2: fan base, mostly female supporters. I don't know what they're thinking,

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Speaker 2: but now has appeared seemingly modeling for Shine. They say,

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Speaker 2: no way, how did this happen? Apparently they don't want

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Speaker 2: to touch in with a ten foot pole, and this

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Speaker 2: is why.

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Speaker 3: The suspect was in a McDonald's and was recognized by

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Speaker 3: an employee who then called local police. Responding officers questioned

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Speaker 3: the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and was carrying multiple

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Speaker 3: fraudulent IDs as well as a US passport.

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Speaker 2: First, I want to go out to our dive expert.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious about the search in the lake at Central Park.

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Speaker 12: The New York Police Department dive team is called into

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Speaker 12: action after the discovery of the backpack near Hexherre Playground.

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Speaker 12: The divers are seen trawling a Central Park pond behind

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Speaker 12: an area cordoned off with police tape. Next to but

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Speaker 12: there's the fountain in a body of water known as

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Speaker 12: the lake near Central Park boat House. The NYPD has

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Speaker 12: been searching Central Parks since the gun.

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Speaker 11: Most is keeping.

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Speaker 12: Every kind and the distinctive gun used in the shooting,

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Speaker 12: and it's unclear if officers recovered any evidence from the water.

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Speaker 2: Joining me special guest Ben Dobin, Virginia Beach Emergency Medical Services,

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Speaker 2: also the Dean of Professional Services at Virginia Wesleyan University.

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Speaker 2: He is an expert diver and he is actually a

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Speaker 2: dive instructor. Well.

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Speaker 13: I do a lot of police diving also and just

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Speaker 13: into emergency diving. And so I'm looking at this on

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Speaker 13: Google Maps, and it's a relatively closed area, so that

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Speaker 13: makes it a lot easier than having to go into

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Speaker 13: the ocean or you know, a great lake, or the

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Speaker 13: chestbea bay, so it makes it a lot easier for

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Speaker 13: the divers. It's also I just looked it up, it's

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Speaker 13: only four to six feet deep, so that also makes

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Speaker 13: it a lot more simple to do a dive operation.

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Speaker 13: But what they're could be doing is they're could be

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Speaker 13: looking for anything that they can find. And one thing

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Speaker 13: that your listeners and watchers need to understand is anything

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Speaker 13: that exists above water exists underwater. People use it as

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Speaker 13: a garbage dump. We find you name it, bikes, washing machines,

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Speaker 13: shopping carts, so there's a lot of debris. The more

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Speaker 13: people that are around, the more people use it as

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Speaker 13: a dumping ground. But there's two things that I imagine they're

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Speaker 13: looking for just listening to the different news reports and

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Speaker 13: listening to you. They're looking for the firearm obviously, but

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Speaker 13: that telephone also they're looking for that. You know, those

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Speaker 13: are both very small items that are relatively easy to discard,

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Speaker 13: and one of the things that if you find an

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Speaker 13: item like that, you're going to have to recover it.

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Speaker 13: Evidence recovery is the same underwater as it is above

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Speaker 13: water from the police perspective, but the one thing we

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Speaker 13: have to keep in mind is that it's in a

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Speaker 13: different environment. Evidence above water is in air, so all

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Speaker 13: if you do is keep it in the air. But

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Speaker 13: evidence that's recovered underwater you have to recover it with

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Speaker 13: the water. If you take it out of the water,

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Speaker 13: things start to break down relatively quickly. When I'm talking

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Speaker 13: about specifically is fingerprints if you take something out of

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Speaker 13: the water, and fingerprints can last for about a week underwater,

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Speaker 13: so the clock is ticking you remove, whether it's a

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Speaker 13: firearm or the telephone or any piece of evidence, you're

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Speaker 13: going to want to take it out of the water

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Speaker 13: and just bring some of the local water with it

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Speaker 13: and then bring that to your forensics office, and then

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Speaker 13: they're going to drain the water and then do all

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Speaker 13: the magic that they do to get the fingerprints off

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Speaker 13: of it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Ben Dobyn is joining me, not only dean Professional

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Speaker 2: Services at Virginia Westling and he is a.

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Speaker 1: Dive instructor and a police diver.

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Speaker 2: Now, Ben, you just taught me something I didn't know.

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Speaker 2: Number One, when items are taken out of the water,

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Speaker 2: you have to preserve them in preferably the ambiant water

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Speaker 2: the water in which they were in, because the moment

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Speaker 2: they hit the air, it starts to degrade.

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Speaker 1: For instance, fingerprints.

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Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of

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Speaker 2: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a

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Speaker 2: hit series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, I wanted

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Speaker 2: to talk to you about the gun, but I want

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Speaker 2: to follow up on.

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Speaker 1: What Dobrin is telling us.

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Speaker 2: Yes, prints are preserved underwater because prints, fingerprints are based

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Speaker 2: on the oil in the body oil water.

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Speaker 1: Get it. You can explain better than me.

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Speaker 14: Go ahead, Yeah, our fingerprints come about as a result

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Speaker 14: of the discharge of the fatty lipids that we have

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Speaker 14: in the pores that surround the print that's left behind. Remember,

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Speaker 14: we don't have fingerprints on the tips of our fingers.

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Speaker 14: We have friction ridges that leave behind fingerprints. So in

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Speaker 14: this particular case, we believe that this is a weapon

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Speaker 14: that has a magazine in it, Nancy. So if you

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Speaker 14: have a magazine, that means that you're going to be

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Speaker 14: pressing down on the rounds as you're loading the magazine in,

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Speaker 14: and also you're touching that surface of the magazine. The

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Speaker 14: magazine is this then fitted into essentially the grip of

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Speaker 14: this weapon, and it's kind of in a protected space there.

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Speaker 14: So what Ben is talking about is right on the money.

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Speaker 14: You have this protected space. If you can keep this

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Speaker 14: in uh in the water that it comes from and

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Speaker 14: take that into the lab, they can get around that

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Speaker 14: weapon pretty quickly and raise any kind of latent prints

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Speaker 14: that might be there.

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Speaker 2: You did that so eloquently, Joe Scott, I would have

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Speaker 2: just said, you know, like oil and water don't mix.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly what I'm saying here.

440
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 14: That one more thing about it, Yeah, you think about

441
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 14: you know, Ben had mentioned how densely populated, and all

442
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 14: of us have been to Manhattan, how densely populated. This

443
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 14: area this guy and pay very close than you what

444
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 14: I'm about to say. This guy, if he did this,

445
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 14: he ain't the first person to think about dumping a

446
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 14: weapon into that lake, all right. So they have a

447
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 14: herculean task at hand here dealing around, dealing in this

448
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 14: filthy water where they're going to be using their hands,

449
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 14: crawling along. How many other weapons are in there? Just

450
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 14: because you find a firearm e merged doesn't mean it's

451
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 14: the firearm that was used.

452
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: Ben.

453
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 2: I want to follow up with you on this is

454
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 2: a great thing to throw at Jason Ocean's when we

455
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: come back. But this guy did so much planning then,

456
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 2: But I bet he didn't measure the depth of this

457
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 2: lake and has no idea even though it's big, it's

458
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 2: twenty acres.

459
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: I guarantee you he didn't know that it was just

460
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 1: four to six feet deep.

461
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 13: And I just found that Google And if you go

462
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 13: a little bit further north, it looks like there's the

463
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 13: reservoir in the park and that's forty feet deep, So

464
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 13: that is significantly deeper. I mean, obviously you can dive that.

465
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 13: It just takes a little bit longer to get down

466
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 13: and get up. But four to six feet is super easy.

467
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 13: If they find something, they can just pop their head

468
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 13: out of the water and look at it. And what

469
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 13: he just said is we've done training dives in local

470
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 13: lakes where we have found multiple guns. What we weren't

471
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 13: looking for. I mean, we're just a training dive and

472
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 13: we found goods. I found a flint lock pistol. I

473
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 13: wasn't looking for one time, because you know, in a

474
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 13: populated era, people think, oh, if if I discard a

475
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 13: firearm in this lake, nobody will ever find it. Well,

476
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 13: you know it's hard to see, but if people are

477
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 13: looking for it, they're gonna find it.

478
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 2: You know.

479
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 13: The New York City Police dive team is one of

480
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 13: the most respected in the world. If it's in that

481
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 13: little area there, they're going to find something.

482
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 2: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace, the world's largest fashion retailer,

483
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 2: has lost an investigation after alleged killer assassin Luigi Mangioni's

484
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: likeness was saying modeling their shirts and one of apparently

485
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: their advertisements smiling at the camera and sporting not one

486
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 2: but two of their button up shirts. Okay, they issued

487
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 2: a statement quote The image in question was provided by

488
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 2: a third party vendor and was removed immediately upon discovery.

489
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: We have stringent standards for all listings on our platform. Okay,

490
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 2: bottom line, he made it into an advertisement for Shine.

491
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: Why who would have done that?

492
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 2: One of his cult followers, and believe me, he's got

493
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 2: a lot of cult followers. Joining me right now is

494
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: expert Tom Smith, NYPD, detective thirty years and the star

495
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: of the gold Shields podcast. Tom again, thank you for

496
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: being with us. We've learned a lot about the gun.

497
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 2: At first, it looks like it's been manipulated with a

498
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 2: homemade silencer on it. We are now understanding that is

499
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: not a homemade silencer.

500
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: That this is a weapon that is often used.

501
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: By veterinarians to put down that's a nice word for it, animals.

502
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: The magazine is in the grip. And when many people

503
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: thought that it.

504
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 2: Was jamming and he was clearing it after each shot,

505
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: which I thought he did really calmly and methodically, we

506
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: now know it may be a bolt action that has

507
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 2: to be manually cycled after each shot.

508
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: That changes things. Tom Smith, Yes, it.

509
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 8: Does, because now he knows he's proficient in that weapon,

510
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 8: knowing every time he fires it he's going to have

511
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 8: to chamber around and if I could show you real quick,

512
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 8: this is a glock, not the same weapon that was used,

513
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 8: but but similar functioning. Every time he fires that weapon,

514
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 8: he'd have to click it like this in order to

515
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 8: chamber around to fire the next round. And the thing

516
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 8: about him is he knows the weapon because he knows

517
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 8: that's coming. It's not a surprise to him. So he

518
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 8: fires around, has to clear it, fire another round, clear

519
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,479
Speaker 8: it to chamber around each time. And he knows the weapon,

520
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 8: and he knows that he's coming and has to do that,

521
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 8: and that's why he stays kind of calm. Any other

522
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 8: criminal I've ever dealt with in New York City, what's

523
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 8: a weapons jams, they throw it away, they run. He

524
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 8: knows exactly how this weapon is being used.

525
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 2: Okay, for once, the movie's got it right, Tom Smith,

526
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: because in the movies you always see the person jam

527
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 2: the weapon and they just throw it or they throw

528
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: it at the person they're shooting at. Here when you

529
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: look at the video, he's walking toward the victim. I

530
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: guarantee you, Tom Smith, this guy practiced probably at a

531
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 2: gun range.

532
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, and you probably have practiced with that weapon,

533
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 8: because like I said, there's a big difference when you're

534
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 8: viewing this, whether someone's panicking or anticipating the movement he's doing.

535
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 8: He knows what he has to do to fire that weapon.

536
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 2: You know, I want you to explain one more time

537
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: for novices out there about the bolt action. We now

538
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: don't believe the gun was jamming everybody. We believe it

539
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 2: was a bolt action that has to be manually recycled

540
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: after every shot. Could you explain that and demonstrate one

541
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 2: more time please, Tom.

542
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, this is a nine millimeter weapon and the magazine

543
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 8: port is in here just like you mentioned, it's at

544
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 8: the bottom of the handle. So once a round is fired,

545
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 8: he has to manually clear that round to chamber another

546
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 8: round in order to fire it. He'll fire it again

547
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 8: and do the same thing over and over again. So,

548
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 8: like I said, he's very aware of how that gun

549
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 8: he's used and what he used to do to fire.

550
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: You know another issue, Tom Smith, and I'm going to bring.

551
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 2: Everybody back in in just a second, But Tom, another

552
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: feature of this particular gun that is traditionally used by

553
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: veterinarians to put down animals is it has a.

554
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: Very quiet shot, very quiet shot.

555
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 2: And the gun we're talking about has a long as

556
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 2: we saw. Could you hold yours up again as a

557
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 2: very long barrel like that? This one even seemed a

558
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: little bit longer than yours. And that can be confused

559
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: because it looks like a silencer, but it's not.

560
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 8: It's a long weapon and easier to aim because you

561
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 8: have more of an angle of your target in front

562
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 8: of you. So, like I said, he is very aware

563
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 8: of how this weapon is used and what it needs

564
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 8: to do to fight.

565
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: Is this gun is a specialized gun.

566
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 2: This guy practiced and practiced, and he had everything planned out.

567
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: You know, he practiced with the murder weapon.

568
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: He didn't just trot over to Connecticut and buy a

569
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 2: gun and then use it the next day. That did

570
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: not happen. Think of the mindset here. This is a

571
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:43,959
Speaker 2: gun he brought with him on a bus.

572
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: Didn't got on a.

573
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 2: Plane because he couldn't get through Tsa with a gun

574
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 2: for Pete's sake. And the airlines know who you are,

575
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 2: they have your picture, they have you every three feet

576
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: in the airport.

577
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: He didn't want that. He wanted to travel with his gun.

578
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 2: What criminal that's practiced and practiced and planned and plan

579
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 2: was to use an aligen gun.

580
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 8: Well, it's hard to trace. That's why if you're using

581
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 8: a normal weapon with a serial number and so forth,

582
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 8: it's easily traced, whether you find it in a month

583
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 8: or a year. This we have no idea whether there's

584
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 8: any serial numbers on it, whether there's any distinguishing markings

585
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 8: on it. So it could be very benign in the

586
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 8: in identifying it, and that's why he paid.

587
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: What I'm saying, Doctor Bethany Marshall, is that this guy

588
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: did not just go into a gun shop and buy

589
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: the gun just before the murder. If he planned this

590
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: methodically to get to Manhattan and to carry out this crime,

591
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 2: staking out the scene the moment he got there November

592
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 2: twenty four to ten pm, he didn't go to bed.

593
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 2: He went to this location where the forum was going

594
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 2: to be held. He didn't buy a new gun. I

595
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 2: don't think. I think he brought his preferred weapon with

596
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 2: him after practicing for hours on end.

597
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 7: This guy is upper middle class. This guy has money,

598
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 7: He has disposable money, and he had access to a

599
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 7: weapon in a professional environment. This is not somebody who

600
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 7: goes to a gun shop with a fake ID and

601
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,719
Speaker 7: tries to skip the background check and gets a gun.

602
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 7: This is a man who knows this weapon. This is

603
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 7: also a man who has researched where this CEO is

604
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 7: going to be.

605
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 15: Early reports on the shooting of Brian Thompson pointed to

606
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 15: a silencer being used or a modern version of a

607
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 15: rare World War two gun. The investigators found themselves looking

608
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 15: into a Connecticut gun store they believe may have sold

609
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 15: the weapon. That lead did not pan out, but now

610
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 15: Chief Detective Joseph Kenny says they are looking into the

611
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 15: use of a veterinary gun being used as the murder weapon.

612
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 15: Kenny says the weapon is normally used on farms and

613
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 15: ranches when an animal needs to be put down. The

614
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 15: animal can be shot with this type of weapon that

615
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 15: doesn't cause a large noise.

616
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 2: The twenty six year old taking into custody on gun

617
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 2: charges apparently had a ghost gun, a silencer, multiple fake IDs,

618
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 2: and a hand written manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.

619
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,720
Speaker 1: It's not just this moment.

620
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 2: This moment is the culmination of thousands of law enforcement

621
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,439
Speaker 2: man hours like this.

622
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 16: Amid speculation that the shooter traveled to New York on

623
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 16: a bus that left from Atlanta, NYPD officers have traveled

624
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 16: south for part of their investigation. APD confirmed through a

625
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 16: statement that its officers are assisting the NYPD investigators, whom

626
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 16: arrived in Atlanta on Saturday. Sources say they are searching

627
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 16: through video from the bus station in town and to

628
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 16: others along the route to New York City. Officers are

629
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 16: working to find a name from tickets purchased for a

630
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 16: November twenty fourth Greyhound trip.

631
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 2: You notice the investigative reporter said, looking for a name.

632
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,479
Speaker 2: I guarantee you it's not going to be his name.

633
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: Let me just say that.

634
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 2: The security and verification procedures at the bus station a

635
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: lot less stringent than it is at the airport. He

636
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 2: could have gone in with any fake ID and gotten

637
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 2: a bus ticket under a fake name, just like he

638
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 2: had a fake ID that he got out of Jersey,

639
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 2: just like he used a fake ID when he checked

640
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 2: into that youth hostel. And speaking of the youth hostel,

641
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 2: Lauren Colin joining then investigative reporter and start a primetime

642
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 2: crime on YouTube, Lauren, much was made of him flirting

643
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 2: with the receptionist.

644
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: That's not what happened.

645
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 2: We now know that to check into that hostile and

646
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 2: it's not just at a hostile that's where they're doing it.

647
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 2: Fancy hotels too. When they say, you know, we need

648
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 2: some ID look at them. The next time they ask you.

649
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 1: That, they look back up at your face. Right.

650
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 2: So, yeah, there was a little flirtation. You can see

651
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 2: him smiling right there. That's about ten thousand dollars worth

652
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 2: of orthodontia on that mouth.

653
00:35:59,280 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: Right there.

654
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 2: That's another can of worms, Lauren. So I don't know

655
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: that the clerk was flirting with him. She very well

656
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 2: may have said, pulled down your mask.

657
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 1: I got to make an ID. I mean, this is

658
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 1: not the rints, okay, right right, and you're correct, Nancy.

659
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 9: I did visit the hostel, and everybody working there was friendly,

660
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 9: not overly friendly. Something I noticed was that there were

661
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 9: multiple cameras throughout the lobby of the hostele. There were

662
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 9: cameras outside of the hostel as well. So my understanding

663
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 9: is they most likely have multiple angles of this guy,

664
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 9: of this shooter. I also visited the businesses surrounding the hostel.

665
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 9: I went inside to a local bodega. I went inside

666
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 9: to a dunkin Donuts and they informed me that they

667
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 9: not do any sort of talking about what they know

668
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 9: to anyone, but the NYPD, but also that they turned

669
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 9: over footage as well. So I believe that NYPD is

670
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 9: going through all of the footage they have right now, which, look,

671
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 9: it's gonna take some time. This is not gonna happen overnight,

672
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 9: but I think there's gonna be a lot more and

673
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 9: stills being released of this guy and what he did

674
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 9: during his time in New York before the shooting.

675
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: Straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum, let's look at this guy.

676
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: Who is he? Based on everything we know right.

677
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 11: Now, Nancy, I think one thing that's imperative that everybody's

678
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 11: not mentioning is when you talk to the clerk at

679
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 11: the hostel. If this were my case, the first thing

680
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 11: I would have asked her is does he have an accent?

681
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 11: And that's why I think again they are focused on Atlanta.

682
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 11: They know where the bus originated, they know what he

683
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 11: sounds like. If he's from here, they're gonna know it.

684
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 11: The other thing about that weapon, remember we have three words,

685
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 11: which means three possible shellcases. So that gun either jams

686
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 11: and we have an unspent or we have three scent

687
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 11: which means he missed one.

688
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 2: Possibly a ghost gun, a style, sir, fake IDs and

689
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 2: a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.

690
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: Sounds like our guy.

691
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 2: But what else led to this detainment in Pennsylvania To

692
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 2: doctor Bethany Marshall joining us for now, psychoanalyst Way and

693
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: doctor Bethany, what's your take on it?

694
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: Who is he?

695
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 7: Nancy? This guy is upper middle class, he's educated. He

696
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 7: knew to do this hit at the healthcare conference because

697
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 7: he's sending a message. If he did it at a

698
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 7: traffic stop or at the victim's home, it would not

699
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 7: send the message. The scribbling on the ammunition he caught

700
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 7: that from researching internal documents at insurance companies and citing

701
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 7: words that employees or claims processors use to deny claims.

702
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 7: I am going to guess that he had a family

703
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 7: member who has denied care and because of that denied care,

704
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 7: the family member died and he cannot get over it.

705
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 7: So this is Although he looks like a street thug

706
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 7: on you know, at first glance, he is not.

707
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 2: He's got a square chin, perfect teeth, wax between the eyebrows,

708
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: eyes going slightly down at the outer edges. He can

709
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 2: change a lot, but there are some things he can't change,

710
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 2: like his fingerprints and DNA Joe Scott.

711
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 14: Yep, you're absolutely right. Those are unique to him, Nancy.

712
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 14: And here's one other thing. I did a little digging

713
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 14: one of this weapon that they keep referring to. That's

714
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 14: the veterinarian euthanasia weapon. They believe might be a what's

715
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 14: referred to as a Station six brand weapon. My research

716
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 14: revealed that there are essentially, I think either four or

717
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 14: five locations in the metro area where these can be

718
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 14: specifically purchased. And I think that if they believe that

719
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 14: that's what this is and that he transported it, I

720
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 14: think you're on the money here. Relative to getting on

721
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 14: a bus with this thing. He may have picked it

722
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 14: up down there at some point in time. And it's

723
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 14: not a very efficient weapon for doing the task that

724
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 14: he was trying to do, so I don't know, maybe

725
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 14: he was trying to you know, he's not going to

726
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 14: draw attention to himself, like when you buy a suppressor

727
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 14: separately from a weapon, perhaps, and it's not very efficient

728
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 14: because you lose your site picture every time you have

729
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 14: to rotate that bolt on the back of that weapon,

730
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 14: which is what he's doing. He's spending it. I think

731
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 14: that many of the answers that we're looking for are

732
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 14: probably going to rest as well. And this is something

733
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 14: that we will hear a lot about, I believe, with

734
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 14: United Healthcare and their chief security officer, who was actually

735
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 14: hired back in August of twenty twenty three. I want

736
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 14: to know what she knows. I want to know what

737
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 14: her assets know within that business. Are there letters that

738
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 14: have been written, are their lawsuits that have been filed

739
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 14: relative to what doctor Bethany mentioned about healthcare claims that

740
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 14: may have been blown off, or maybe they didn't receive

741
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 14: what they wanted. But trust me, the security apparatus within

742
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 14: that company is going to be working on.

743
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 2: Shine advertisement or no shine advertisement.

744
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: I don't care how it.

745
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: Happened, but it happened, And I wonder how his widow

746
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 2: and her two boys feel about this seeing his face

747
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 2: smiling in an advertisement. We wait as justice unfolds in

748
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: this case. Nancy Gray signing off goodbye,