Speaker 1: Hey, ba fam, here's another how to throw back. In
Speaker 1: honor of Pride Month, we look back at LinkedIn career
Speaker 1: expert Drew McCaskill's appearance from twenty twenty two. He breaks
Speaker 1: down the best way to use LinkedIn for job seekers
Speaker 1: and entrepreneurs. Plus, Drew discusses how diversity plays a role
Speaker 1: in navigating through a post grad career. He's one of
Speaker 1: my favorite guests in Joy. Hey, hey, hey, we're back.
Speaker 1: We're black. We're extra black today. You just wait and see.
Speaker 1: We're brown.
Speaker 2: Oh you are that voice? We're brown? Am hey man?
Speaker 3: They heard that bass, they heard that baritone. That's not
Speaker 3: mandra Hey, Tiffany, how are you? There's some testosterone in
Speaker 3: the show today.
Speaker 2: What am I gonna do?
Speaker 1: I know?
Speaker 3: So excited y'all. Today we have a very very special guest.
Speaker 3: We have been trying to have this gentleman on the
Speaker 3: show for a minute now, but Covid had other plans
Speaker 3: for me, for everyone else. But we are so so
Speaker 3: excited to welcome Drew mccaskell.
Speaker 2: To Brown Ambition.
Speaker 3: So let me tell you a little about Drew before
Speaker 3: we get into you know, let him and bless him
Speaker 3: with bless you with his velvety voice. But Drew and
Speaker 3: why everyone should know about Drew is he's a LinkedIn
Speaker 3: career expert and culture analyst, an inclusion champion, a marketing
Speaker 3: executive at LinkedIn. Of course, he's a career expert and
Speaker 3: communications executive. But before LinkedIn, I mean Drew's career just
Speaker 3: spans runs the gamut. He most recently was leading D
Speaker 3: and I Diversity and Inclusion Strategy for the Global Sales,
Speaker 3: Marketing and Public Affairs function at Facebook might have heard
Speaker 3: of it and US consumer Marketing and Global Communications at Nielsen,
Speaker 3: where he also led communications for Nielsen China. And he
Speaker 3: was named one of PR Week's Top forty under forty
Speaker 3: p R executives and co authored y'all co authored the
Speaker 3: award winning Diverse Intelligence series on the economic and cultural
Speaker 3: impact of multi cultural consumers. So, without further ado, welcome
Speaker 3: to the show.
Speaker 2: Drew. Yes, Hey, thank you all for having me. This
Speaker 2: is amazing. I'm loving it.
Speaker 1: So I have been on a shoot show many times,
Speaker 1: and you guys might have heard of at the Karen
Speaker 1: Hunter show. Karen is a girl, and so Ju and
Speaker 1: I have been guests many times and often sometimes we'll
Speaker 1: be on at the same damn time and.
Speaker 2: The same damn time, and I love every minute of it. Look,
Speaker 2: not only were we on at the same time, but
Speaker 2: my nieces both got your book. That's awesome. I was like,
Speaker 2: I was like my I was like, y'all, we got
Speaker 2: to all get our money right and this is this
Speaker 2: is this is going to give us the jump start
Speaker 2: we need. So I am I am also a fan.
Speaker 2: So awesome.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm really excited. First and foremost, tell people, what
Speaker 3: does a professional LinkedIn at Career Expert do? Yes, what
Speaker 3: are you?
Speaker 2: A lot of what I do is sort of break
Speaker 2: down into in the layman's terms, like some of the
Speaker 2: things of how one to effectively use our platform, as
Speaker 2: well as to talk a little bit about trends, things
Speaker 2: that are happening in the marketplace, like for job seekers
Speaker 2: to help you understand. I mean, I lean in heavily
Speaker 2: to having conversations with people who look like me and
Speaker 2: kind of helping them decode some of the things that
Speaker 2: are happening in the in the economy and the job market.
Speaker 2: That's sort of like what I've always done, even at
Speaker 2: Serious IO was Culture and Economics contributor at Serious XM.
Speaker 2: My strong opinion is that women and people of color
Speaker 2: need to all of us should have a LinkedIn platfor profile.
Speaker 2: I don't just say that because I work at the company.
Speaker 2: I thought that beforehand, but now I definitely realize that
Speaker 2: every ten seconds, somebody gets a job on LinkedIn, and
Speaker 2: there's a lot of opportunity for information sharing. And I
Speaker 2: truly believe that the people perish for lack of information.
Speaker 2: And when the information is there and free and all
Speaker 2: you have to do is use the tool, I'm like, Yo,
Speaker 2: that's us, let's get on it. Because I think about Twitter, right,
Speaker 2: like African Americans in particular, Let's talk about black folks
Speaker 2: for a second, make up fourteen percent of the US population,
Speaker 2: but we make up about twenty eight percent of active
Speaker 2: conversations on Twitter. Imagine if we over indexed on a
Speaker 2: technology tool and platform that was literally created to connect
Speaker 2: people to economic opportunity. What that could look like. What
Speaker 2: if we over indexed in a place where everybody is
Speaker 2: having conversations about economic opportunity, about getting the bag. That's
Speaker 2: a whole different way of using your time online. And
Speaker 2: part of what I do as a career expert is to,
Speaker 2: you know, I feel like sometimes having a person who
Speaker 2: looks like you, who comes from your community, who sounds
Speaker 2: like you, who talks like you. Giving you that information,
Speaker 2: it will oftentimes make people say, oh, okay, I can
Speaker 2: trust this voice. I mean I had I feel like
Speaker 2: I've built some credibility long before I came to LinkedIn,
Speaker 2: and I think, you know, the mission is good enough
Speaker 2: for me to leverage that credibility to help people understand
Speaker 2: the opportunity that it's out there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you talk about LinkedIn and listen as a career
Speaker 3: coach myself. Just today I had a client and I
Speaker 3: hear this all the time. I'm scared of LinkedIn, like
Speaker 3: or it's not even I'm scared. They first they say
Speaker 3: they hate it. I hate LinkedIn. I don't want to
Speaker 3: be on LinkedIn. My profile is old and dusty. I
Speaker 3: haven't updated it in years. And you know what it's
Speaker 3: at the core of it is LinkedIn sometimes doesn't feel
Speaker 3: like it's for us. So you mentioned like Twitter, you
Speaker 3: know twenty I didn't realize that stat. That's just you know,
Speaker 3: black Twitter is so strong. We all know that, but
Speaker 3: I didn't know there was the stat behind it. So
Speaker 3: thank you for that. But how can we make what's
Speaker 3: your take on that why doesn't LinkedIn feel as free,
Speaker 3: you know, for us to join us on the such.
Speaker 2: A fair question. It's such a fair question. And I
Speaker 2: think that black folks are, particularly black women, are thriving
Speaker 2: on LinkedIn, particularly black women entrepreneurs are thriving on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2: But I also think that we're doing we're doing a
Speaker 2: little bit better job I think now and making sure
Speaker 2: that we have content that feels good and it feels like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is for me. One of the reasons why I
Speaker 2: came on board was largely to help us reintroduce LinkedIn
Speaker 2: to consumers who have felt like, oh, I don't think
Speaker 2: it's for me. Actually it is. So I'm having conversations
Speaker 2: in our community about how to use the tool, how
Speaker 2: to make it less daunting, right, how to find information
Speaker 2: that is that's germane to you and your experience, and
Speaker 2: a lot of the things that we did, Like we
Speaker 2: just spent all of February and March doing specific content
Speaker 2: around entrepreneur black entrepreneurs. Right, black folks are black all
Speaker 2: twelve months, not just February. Shout out to that. And
Speaker 2: so in the entire month of March, we highlighted and
Speaker 2: profiled black women entrepreneurs and them telling their stories and
Speaker 2: how they found how they found community as well as
Speaker 2: opportunity on the platform. And the more that you sort
Speaker 2: of have those conversations and amplify those conversations, the more
Speaker 2: when people come to the platform they start to see
Speaker 2: content that looks familiar, right, But we also wanted to
Speaker 2: be incredibly useful and that's a journey and it's a
Speaker 2: journey that I'm excited to be a part of the
Speaker 2: leadership on so that people do feel more, they do
Speaker 2: feel more connected to the platform. But we got a
Speaker 2: lot of work to do and in terms of that,
Speaker 2: and you know, there's a lot of investment going into that.
Speaker 2: But it's also around you know, I think sometimes career
Speaker 2: conversations can feel like medicine, right, and you know, if
Speaker 2: you've got you know, a sugary snack over here and
Speaker 2: a little bit of medicine over here, like that sugary
Speaker 2: you know Twitter snack. I was gonna say it may
Speaker 2: be easier.
Speaker 3: To Twitter convos Drew are not appropriate for LinkedIn.
Speaker 1: He was like, you can't bring all that bratchet to
Speaker 1: LinkedIn And sometimes jobs, okay.
Speaker 2: We have we have we have controls for the chaos, right,
Speaker 2: because it is still a professional platform and that's what
Speaker 2: the conversations are about. And I think that's actually a
Speaker 2: good thing.
Speaker 1: Can I ask a question, Drew? So, So I love
Speaker 1: that you said that black women and entrepreneurs are thriving
Speaker 1: on LinkedIn. So if someone's listening, I would love if
Speaker 1: can you give some best practices if you are an entrepreneur,
Speaker 1: this is the way you should lean in. Versus if
Speaker 1: you you know, are you know, have a career, you
Speaker 1: know that you don't own your own business, This is
Speaker 1: the best practices how you can lean in. Can you
Speaker 1: like kind of differentiate the best ways to lean in
Speaker 1: and those two sides.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So off top, there's a couple of things that
Speaker 2: everyone should just think through. It's like, one, have a
Speaker 2: good have a good profile picture, right, Like you don't
Speaker 2: have to go out and spend a lot of money
Speaker 2: on headshots, but you probably shouldn't have a beach selfie
Speaker 2: on your LinkedIn profile unless you're a surf instructor, right,
Speaker 2: And so I would say, have a great have a
Speaker 2: great picture so people know that you're a real person.
Speaker 2: Be really keen about what your superpower is and talk
Speaker 2: about your skills and your experience right and why what
Speaker 2: people need to know about you as a professional. That's
Speaker 2: really really important. Use keywords that are that are really
Speaker 2: germane to the work that you do right, and talk
Speaker 2: about your skills, skills, skills, skills. That's how people find
Speaker 2: you is based on skills. Skills are the key to
Speaker 2: the algorithm. I will say. In addition to that, if
Speaker 2: you're an entrepreneur, say what you're looking for and figure
Speaker 2: out who what groups there are that you can join
Speaker 2: on the platform. There are lots of groups for entrepreneurs.
Speaker 2: If you're an entrepreneur in finance, join the finance groups.
Speaker 2: If you're an entrepreneur and you have a service or
Speaker 2: a business, do all of those things. If you're a
Speaker 2: professional looking for a traditional job and you're actively looking
Speaker 2: for work, there are a couple of tools. One that
Speaker 2: I think is absolutely amazing and it is called job Alerts.
Speaker 2: Job Alerts allows you to look for a job while
Speaker 2: you're eating, sleeping, working at your current job. Because you
Speaker 2: set up a profile of the types of jobs that
Speaker 2: you want, the geographies that you're looking at, companies that
Speaker 2: you would like to work for, and as soon as
Speaker 2: a job posts on our platform and there are millions
Speaker 2: of jobs that post on our platform globally. Every day
Speaker 2: you get an alert in your email that says, Hey,
Speaker 2: a job that matches your profile that you set up
Speaker 2: just opened up. Here's how you can now go and
Speaker 2: apply for it. And I would say engage. Engage in
Speaker 2: terms of finding the people on the platform that are
Speaker 2: part of your community and even people that you want
Speaker 2: to be a part of your community. Particularly if you're
Speaker 2: an entrepreneur, I think LinkedIn is a great way for
Speaker 2: you to engage with your network, with people who are
Speaker 2: talking about and about the business that you also are about,
Speaker 2: and using the platform as a networking tool is incredibly important.
Speaker 2: And also if you are if you are a person
Speaker 2: who's in that sort of phase of I'm I'm working,
Speaker 2: but I'm also an entrepreneur at the same time as
Speaker 2: many of as many folks are in sit in both
Speaker 2: of those categories. Having a service page in addition to
Speaker 2: your LinkedIn profile page that talks about this is my business,
Speaker 2: this is my other business that I do, I'm a
Speaker 2: freelance writer, or I know I'm on the speaker circuit,
Speaker 2: and have that connected you to your profile page as
Speaker 2: well that says that that makes it easy for people
Speaker 2: to search for you if they're looking for somebody with
Speaker 2: your skill or somebody who does what you do. Right,
Speaker 2: Also if you're looking for if you are a person
Speaker 2: who's looking for a job, LinkedIn has a feature called
Speaker 2: open to Work, you can turn it on.
Speaker 3: People are so scared of that one, Drew.
Speaker 2: And so here's I know people are typically scared because
Speaker 2: you know, if I'm working at LinkedIn, I don't want
Speaker 2: LinkedIn recruiters to see it up open for work, right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: But there's also there's a control for that too that
Speaker 2: recruiters from the job that you have listed won't necessarily
Speaker 2: see that you're open for work, but other recruiters will
Speaker 2: be able to see that you can even if.
Speaker 3: You I don't realize it had a way of like
Speaker 3: filtering out recruiters from a way of.
Speaker 2: Filtering that out. I mean, we've heard that before, we've
Speaker 2: reacted to that, and we've we've created a solution for that.
Speaker 2: And so that says to recruiters, immediately listen. My partner
Speaker 2: is in recruiting and his entire team lives by LinkedIn, right,
Speaker 2: They use it every single day. That's how they find candidates.
Speaker 2: Particularly if you have one that you're open for work.
Speaker 2: Go to the top of the list from when recruiters
Speaker 2: are searching.
Speaker 1: I like, I didn't know that there was like a
Speaker 1: like a service page. So because I I'm like looking
Speaker 1: at my LinkedIn now, I'm like, I mean, my picture
Speaker 1: is all right, it's the it's the cover.
Speaker 2: Of my book, which will be for a while.
Speaker 1: But I didn't know I could like a link it
Speaker 1: to like, hey, I mean people reach out, Like actually,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at my LinkedIn profile and a company has
Speaker 1: just reached out because they want to talk about like partnership.
Speaker 1: So I was like, so I do check.
Speaker 2: I would say weekly, give or take.
Speaker 1: But I didn't know I could have a service page.
Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. I'm definitely gonna like look at.
Speaker 2: I mean someone that if you, hey, here's how you
Speaker 2: booked me for speaking engagements, or here's the types of
Speaker 2: I help and partner and do these things with with
Speaker 2: you know, internal employee resource groups or things like that,
Speaker 2: or I'm open to consulting all of those things. You
Speaker 2: can do that on a on a profile page, and too,
Speaker 2: you can go to Opportunity dot LinkedIn dot com and
Speaker 2: figure out better ways to do all of those things like,
Speaker 2: we know that that it can be a little daunting,
Speaker 2: but opportunity at LinkedIn dot com also helps you. Look
Speaker 2: at these are the top jobs that people are looking
Speaker 2: for right now. This is the way that you can
Speaker 2: write a really cool bio in that top part right
Speaker 2: there that uses the key words to help people find you.
Speaker 1: Hold that thought, Drew, because we're going to go to
Speaker 1: break and will be right back and pick up with
Speaker 1: all this awesomeness. Thanks so much.
Speaker 3: All right, b a fan, we are back. Here's more
Speaker 3: of our conversation with Drew McCaskill. Can we pivot just
Speaker 3: a little bit and talk about the you know, we're
Speaker 3: coming off of this period where it has felt like
Speaker 3: a job seekers market, you know, the great resignation giving
Speaker 3: way to labor shortages, companies competing more than ever. There's
Speaker 3: something like two jobs for every open job seeker right now.
Speaker 3: That being said, there is obviously a little bit of
Speaker 3: like a cooling off in terms of the job market,
Speaker 3: just a cooling off. I don't want people to get
Speaker 3: like freaked out. I mean, the jobs report just came
Speaker 3: out Friday. It's still really strong. It's a little bit
Speaker 3: under what we what we saw in May. But still
Speaker 3: really strong, and unemployment it's still so low. But you
Speaker 3: must be getting the same kind of questions I get
Speaker 3: from my coaching clients, which is, you know, do I
Speaker 3: need to change my Do I need to try to
Speaker 3: find a job quicker than I thought? Is it going
Speaker 3: to be really tough to find a job in six months?
Speaker 3: So for job seekers who are maybe a little bit
Speaker 3: anxious about what's happening in the economy, what would you
Speaker 3: say to them about their hopes for finding a better opportunity?
Speaker 2: No pressure, no, no pressure on that. Listen. I don't
Speaker 2: have a crystal ball, but I will say that you
Speaker 2: can read the tea leaves on what's happening in the
Speaker 2: economy right now, right like, let's just let's just be
Speaker 2: real about it. I think that there's going to be
Speaker 2: some contraction in the market, and that's you know, that's
Speaker 2: my opinion, not as an economist, but as somebody who
Speaker 2: reads the paper every day. I think for job seekers,
Speaker 2: one of the things that you have to do is
Speaker 2: get really clear about what it is that you want
Speaker 2: to do and why is it Is this the right
Speaker 2: time for you to make that move? What are you
Speaker 2: looking for in a new opportunity. You also have to think,
Speaker 2: I've got to now really investigate these companies before I
Speaker 2: before I leave the job where I am today and
Speaker 2: go work for somewhere new, and I've got to really
Speaker 2: get a good idea of what I'm getting myself into.
Speaker 2: I think what we saw a lot in the what
Speaker 2: we call the Great Reshuffle, others call the Great Resignation,
Speaker 2: is that there there was some resignation regret on a
Speaker 2: lot of folks. A lot of people boomerang back to
Speaker 2: their old jobs if they were if those jobs were
Speaker 2: still available, because they looked at that number and they
Speaker 2: looked at the prospect that they're looked around all of
Speaker 2: their friends were changing jobs, and they thinking, Okay, well
Speaker 2: the block is hot, let me go out and get
Speaker 2: this additional bag without thinking about the culture. And so
Speaker 2: what I would say to job seekers is you've got
Speaker 2: to be really clear about what it is that you
Speaker 2: want from work, why you want it, and what your
Speaker 2: expectations are, so that when if you do make the
Speaker 2: decide to make that move, you know the right questions
Speaker 2: to ask. And you need to be asking companies just
Speaker 2: as many questions as they're asking you in the interview process.
Speaker 2: Are there people in leadership who look like me? You know?
Speaker 2: You know who? Do I know who works there? Right?
Speaker 2: Is there someone who works there who has a life
Speaker 2: experience similar to mine? Let me reach out to them
Speaker 2: and ask them and ask them about their experience working there,
Speaker 2: Like you have to investigate the companies that you're going
Speaker 2: to go work for just as much as they're thinking
Speaker 2: about you and googling you and all of those things.
Speaker 2: So culture matters. The other thing I would say is
Speaker 2: it's still very much an employee marketplace. But I do
Speaker 2: think that folks have to We'll see that contraction. And
Speaker 2: so now it is making that decision. Do I am
Speaker 2: I looking for more flexibility? Am I looking for more money?
Speaker 2: Am I looking for a different a different role altogether
Speaker 2: or in a different industry all together? How? And is
Speaker 2: there an opportunity for me to make those moves internally?
Speaker 2: Because a lot of what companies are saying right now
Speaker 2: is my next employee may be my current employee, just
Speaker 2: in a different role inside of this organization. A lot
Speaker 2: of people leave great companies because they got shitty managers, right,
Speaker 2: and so there may be an opportunity to think through
Speaker 2: how do I move on from this particular role and
Speaker 2: still stay with this company if there's an opportunity in
Speaker 2: other places that in that in that world, you have
Speaker 2: not because you ask not. We have to get really,
Speaker 2: really confident in the fact that there's so many more
Speaker 2: things that are negotiable now than they've ever been before.
Speaker 2: Employees have more voice and more choice than they've literally
Speaker 2: ever had before. There are more platforms for folks to
Speaker 2: be vocal about their work experience and their lived experience,
Speaker 2: and companies are being a lot more mindful of that
Speaker 2: now than they've ever been, and they're taking on and
Speaker 2: they're taking on a lot more empathy and care than
Speaker 2: they've had than they've done before, because now they live
Speaker 2: really have to.
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask That's like a good segue because
Speaker 1: I I was going to ask if someone is an
Speaker 1: employee and kind of looking for a new place to work,
Speaker 1: or are some things to consider as it relates to
Speaker 1: what's happening right now from you know roversus way to
Speaker 1: you know, post racial reckoning. It's funny because I was
Speaker 1: on a I was on a call with a financial brand,
Speaker 1: a huge financial brand, and we're working together, and I
Speaker 1: was like, can I ask something candidly. They were like sure,
Speaker 1: I said, why do you care about black people? All
Speaker 1: of a sudden, everybody was like scul You know, I
Speaker 1: was on my kind yet because I was like, what
Speaker 1: you're gonna do. You're gonna find another budgetista. You not,
Speaker 1: We're gonna ask these real questions. And plus it was
Speaker 1: like the leader on the call, she's a sister, so
Speaker 1: she looked at me like, ooh, girl, yes ask. I
Speaker 1: was like, so, I said, because I remember, like not
Speaker 1: less than ten years ago, when I first came out
Speaker 1: and I was trying to book things and whatever. You know,
Speaker 1: I had to be careful to say women, you know,
Speaker 1: because I said black women, and y'all ran off. And
Speaker 1: I said, because you're not the only financial brand. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm beating financial brands off with a stick.
Speaker 2: I said.
Speaker 1: They just camped out, you know, in front of my
Speaker 1: My My budget is to port. You know, they don't
Speaker 1: even care that I'm working with there, and you know,
Speaker 1: with the whomever, They're like, well, we'll go next, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, but why, And then of course it was
Speaker 1: like the answer was something to the effect of like, oh,
Speaker 1: because of the racial reckoning, you know, we want to
Speaker 1: do better. I said, let's be real, what is the
Speaker 1: financial benefit for helping black and brown people? Because you're
Speaker 1: a company, You're not, I mean you you know, y'all
Speaker 1: been down bad, so like like for real, and so
Speaker 1: if you know, for folks who are like making decisions
Speaker 1: now about what company to work for, what are some
Speaker 1: things that they should be looking at as it relates
Speaker 1: to modern challenges that that that companies have to have
Speaker 1: to account for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that they. I think that you're You're
Speaker 2: absolutely right, and I think the question that you asked
Speaker 2: that organization is spot on right. But and part of
Speaker 2: that is black folks contribute one point four one point
Speaker 2: five you know, trillion dollars to the US economy every year. Right.
Speaker 2: If black folks, just black folks were a global economy,
Speaker 2: we'd be the fifteenth largest GDP in the world between
Speaker 2: Spain and Mexico. Is black America, Right, And so when
Speaker 2: you put that into context, that's companies are like, oh
Speaker 2: wait wa whoa wait a minute, and black folks, particularly
Speaker 2: led by black women, are demanding more of the people
Speaker 2: that we spend our money with. That's just point blank period, right.
Speaker 2: I think that that companies are reckoning with the fact
Speaker 2: that there's an empathy gap out there. People are disillusioned
Speaker 2: with church, they're disillusioned with government. They've been disappointed with
Speaker 2: all of these organizations and entities that have had such
Speaker 2: huge impacts on their lives, and they're thinking that the
Speaker 2: one place where I have some modicum of influence is
Speaker 2: now work. And companies are having to get really religion
Speaker 2: around the fact that people are expecting them, employees and
Speaker 2: consumers are expecting them to have some sort of you know,
Speaker 2: moral impact, right to be moral actors. And that's so
Speaker 2: new for most companies. And you're now seeing companies like
Speaker 2: figuring it out right, Like you see a lot of
Speaker 2: companies that are saying, okay, role has happened. What what
Speaker 2: can we do for the women at our company? Right?
Speaker 2: We can't change the laws in the world, but what
Speaker 2: can we do for our folks. Well, what we can
Speaker 2: do is that if you need a reproductive health benefit
Speaker 2: that you can't get in your state, we're gonna pay
Speaker 2: for your travel so that you can get that benefit
Speaker 2: and still be able. And we're gonna look out for you.
Speaker 2: We're gonna we're gonna look out for you. Right, You're
Speaker 2: seeing companies now say wait a minute, Black folks, have
Speaker 2: you know thirty plus percent sent more student loan debt
Speaker 2: than their non Hispanic white counterparts. It takes them a
Speaker 2: decade longer to pay it off. Okay, we can't do
Speaker 2: anything about whether or not the government is going to
Speaker 2: is going to write off student loan debt. But for
Speaker 2: our folks, we're going to create a student loan debt
Speaker 2: relief program for our people when you come work here, right,
Speaker 2: or we're going to bring in the budgetista to talk
Speaker 2: to our employee resource groups about how to actively pay
Speaker 2: off student loan debt or how to use company benefits
Speaker 2: to do those things and do those things effectively. And
Speaker 2: so if you're a prospective employee, the first thing you
Speaker 2: got to do when I talk about researching companies is
Speaker 2: in those interview processes, ask Hill, can you give me
Speaker 2: an idea of what your Black employee resource group does?
Speaker 2: Or can you give me an idea of what your
Speaker 2: pride employee resource does. If it's just parties and potlucks,
Speaker 2: then that might not be that might not be what
Speaker 2: you need. Right, You might need something bigger than parties
Speaker 2: and potlucks and shout out to the parties and the
Speaker 2: potlucks because they breed culture. But you also have to
Speaker 2: think about how does this benefit me? Right? Are there
Speaker 2: people in leadership who look like me? I've always said
Speaker 2: that if the senior most person in your organization of
Speaker 2: color in your organization is the D and I person,
Speaker 2: then you probably have a D and I problem. Right,
Speaker 2: So you need to look across and see are there
Speaker 2: people who are who are in management and leadership who
Speaker 2: look like me? Talk to somebody who else used to
Speaker 2: work there or who works there currently. What is your
Speaker 2: experience like We have to do peer to peer mentorship
Speaker 2: and peer to peer information sharing as people of color,
Speaker 2: primarily much more so than any other group, because our
Speaker 2: experience is so differentiated when it comes to when it
Speaker 2: comes to being at work. I say the same thing
Speaker 2: with people who are part of the queer community in
Speaker 2: the LGBTQ plus community, is that the questions that we
Speaker 2: have to ask are different, right, and what is your
Speaker 2: commitment to diversity and inclusion? You can ask that question,
Speaker 2: are there any other people of color who are going
Speaker 2: to be on my team? You can ask that question.
Speaker 2: If those questions make the people that you're talking to
Speaker 2: at work uncomfortable, it may be an uncomfortable environment for
Speaker 2: you once you get there, right, like lean into the
Speaker 2: discomfort in the beginning so that you won't have to
Speaker 2: sit there and be uncomfortable for the next eighteen months
Speaker 2: while you're looking for a new job.
Speaker 3: Thank you for saying that and what you said about confidence.
Speaker 3: We have to be confident enough to ask for that.
Speaker 3: And also shout out to the employees who are asking
Speaker 3: their leaders right now the tough questions about what are
Speaker 3: you going to be doing? Are you going to be
Speaker 3: rolling out any benefits you know, similar to XYZ companies
Speaker 3: to offer that, like you said, the reproductive care or
Speaker 3: healthcare benefits in other states, and like paying for travel
Speaker 3: to get access to those benefits.
Speaker 2: You can do that.
Speaker 3: You can ray, you can raise a hand, you can
Speaker 3: submit a question, you can email the CEO. They got
Speaker 3: emails too, so.
Speaker 2: And raise your hand and say, hey company leadership, or
Speaker 2: hey head of equity and inclusion, or hey senior person
Speaker 2: in this organization. I don't feel comfortable as a queer
Speaker 2: person for us to have this, to take our company
Speaker 2: and our money and to this event in this state
Speaker 2: that is one of the states that has the more
Speaker 2: than two hundred and forty pieces of anti gay legislation
Speaker 2: in it. Can we have that conversation right? Employees, much
Speaker 2: like consumers, have more voice and more choice than they've
Speaker 2: ever had before. And I think that a lot of
Speaker 2: it is around being able to say. I think that
Speaker 2: we've been conditioned to just stay in the pocket, don't
Speaker 2: ask too and don't ask any questions, don't don't do this,
Speaker 2: just be to be here and that's it. And I
Speaker 2: think that that, particularly for younger professionals, that's not good
Speaker 2: enough anymore. It is perfectly okay to say this is good,
Speaker 2: but I think we can do better. That is okay
Speaker 2: to say in this world that this is good, but
Speaker 2: I think that we can do better. That's for your
Speaker 2: career as well as for just how you move through
Speaker 2: the companies and the spaces where you're working.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love the power of choice that you said,
Speaker 3: like it's still very much as I agree, a job
Speaker 3: seekers market, and for our listeners who are largely women
Speaker 3: of color, but for people from the queer community too,
Speaker 3: like yourself and black men. If you are not feeling
Speaker 3: safe where you are, I think the power of this
Speaker 3: moment is that you are able to find a new
Speaker 3: opportunity and you can. There are places that exist where
Speaker 3: Adrew McCaskill can be, you know, an executive and a
Speaker 3: budget neist to can be getting these checks for all
Speaker 3: the monies, you know what I mean. Like, those places
Speaker 3: do exist. Maybe they're harder to find.
Speaker 1: But they are out there, you know, and even if
Speaker 1: businesses you know, like we just we'll have a press
Speaker 1: release coming out soon. I was like, I'm committed to
Speaker 1: providing health care to because my team is largely women.
Speaker 1: If you've been denied in your state, you know, and
Speaker 1: that comes up for you, and so we've committed. We
Speaker 1: set aside a thousand dollars to help with travel and accommodations,
Speaker 1: and so all of our employees have access to that.
Speaker 1: If you're in a state that does not provide you
Speaker 1: with a safe mechanism for not being pregnant anymore, if
Speaker 1: that's what you so desire, so we're like, okay, you know,
Speaker 1: and if you're in that state and you've decided to
Speaker 1: determinate a pregnancy and you're not able to, well, we
Speaker 1: will give you money to be able to safely come
Speaker 1: to a place where you can do so. And so like,
Speaker 1: so don't think like you're listening you're like, oh, that's all.
Speaker 1: It's only these big companies. It's like, no small companies
Speaker 1: can commit, you know. I asked my CFO, I said,
Speaker 1: how much if everybody said yes, you know, just in case, like,
Speaker 1: how much can we commix?
Speaker 2: I don't want to.
Speaker 1: Say yes it's ten thousand dollars and everybody says me.
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, wait a minute. So you know, so
Speaker 1: like she looked at our budget and was like, She's like,
Speaker 1: if everybody say yes, we could comfortably do one thousand
Speaker 1: dollars per person. I said, okay, let's do it, and
Speaker 1: then next year, you know, as business does better, we
Speaker 1: can commit to more. So just know that, you know,
Speaker 1: the same goes through.
Speaker 2: True.
Speaker 1: The same is true for small businesses as it is
Speaker 1: for large companies potentially.
Speaker 2: And oftentimes it's small businesses. Tiffany like, things are way
Speaker 2: more negotiable at small businesses sometimes than they are at
Speaker 2: larger corporations. Right. So, oftentimes I say this all the time,
Speaker 2: is that we have not because we ask not. We
Speaker 2: have been conditioned to have this theory of lack. Where
Speaker 2: as many of us are walking around in the face
Speaker 2: of abundance, and we are and our eye is not
Speaker 2: trained to see it, right. And so what I say
Speaker 2: to people all the time is do not let these
Speaker 2: jobs steal your edges, your hair, if your men steal
Speaker 2: your joy, right like, because there is a place out
Speaker 2: there where you can go to work, be your authentic
Speaker 2: self and thrive. You do not have to just stay
Speaker 2: somewhere and just try and survive. And survival is not optimal.
Speaker 2: We want you to thrive, right, and there are places
Speaker 2: out there where you can do. You may have to
Speaker 2: jump out of that You may have to jump out
Speaker 2: of that boat right and try something that you've never
Speaker 2: tried before, or get into a place where you saying
Speaker 2: I'm going to take control of my career and I'm
Speaker 2: going to use all of the tools in my tool
Speaker 2: belt to do that. But work is supposed to give
Speaker 2: you wings, not shackles. The reason why I go so
Speaker 2: hard around talking to people about their power and their
Speaker 2: choice and their voice is because work is supposed to
Speaker 2: give you wings and not shackles. Right. Money is supposed
Speaker 2: to give you wings and not shackles. That is that's
Speaker 2: the biggest piece of this, right. And so the reality
Speaker 2: is that I don't want We've got to speak abundance
Speaker 2: into the lives of other people, because I can tell
Speaker 2: you that at my grown age, many of my peers
Speaker 2: and I'm in my forties, many of our peers have
Speaker 2: never had anybody speak abundance over their lives. Professionally. They've
Speaker 2: told them about lack, They've told them about limitations, they
Speaker 2: told them about well, these are the rules. You got
Speaker 2: to follow this right here, and this is what you
Speaker 2: got to do and keep your head down. No, you
Speaker 2: deserve better than that. You're better and bigger than a job, right.
Speaker 2: And so most of what freedom looks like for many
Speaker 2: of us who are working, and we're all working in
Speaker 2: some way, shape or form, is figuring out what your
Speaker 2: mission is, right like, do you what problems do you
Speaker 2: want to solve in the world, what's your superpower, how
Speaker 2: do you use it? And what's in service to And
Speaker 2: that sounds lofty, but it makes all of your decisions
Speaker 2: so much easier about work and your jobs. And I
Speaker 2: say that plural because previous generations where there was this
Speaker 2: thing that people just told you, get that good job
Speaker 2: and don't do anything to make them white folks mad
Speaker 2: at you, right, and that is the wrong way to
Speaker 2: think about any of this right is your superpowers. Can
Speaker 2: you can have three or four jobs if you lean
Speaker 2: into your mission and your superpower, if you lean into
Speaker 2: just I got to do everything I can to keep
Speaker 2: this one job. Managers will come and managers will go.
Speaker 2: Jobs will come and jobs will go. Most of the
Speaker 2: jobs that half of us have, especially in our twenties
Speaker 2: and our thirties, are vehicles and not destinations. Most of
Speaker 2: us don't need. There are plenty of folks in jobs
Speaker 2: that they really don't need to just set up shop
Speaker 2: and stay at that job forever. That job is probably
Speaker 2: a vehicle and not a destination. And we've got to
Speaker 2: do a mindset shift around it. Because there is abundance
Speaker 2: around us. And that's up and down socioeconomic lines. That's
Speaker 2: all that's across the board as it relates to people
Speaker 2: who are first line and frontline workers, as well as
Speaker 2: people who are in corporate environments. There's abundance out there.
Speaker 3: Please pass the plate because I'm ready to put some
Speaker 3: money in it. Like I I've just been to a
Speaker 3: career servant. My heart is so warm because I agree
Speaker 3: with like and that's what I preach all the time
Speaker 3: as professional resilience, not job stability and job security. So oh,
Speaker 3: I feel like that's so exciting. I mean, it's great
Speaker 3: to hear. It's great to hear that from your perspective
Speaker 3: because there's people that I think even I can't reach
Speaker 3: and to have like there's there's people who will hear
Speaker 3: your voice and listen, and I hope that they hear
Speaker 3: that true incredible. We're all FROs are like, wow, pass
Speaker 3: the piece.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess I mean to wrap up. I think.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel like you're going to set all things to
Speaker 1: wrap up. Maybe if you can leave, like you know,
Speaker 1: our listeners with one piece of effect, cause I feel
Speaker 1: like someone took part. Like one of my friends, Lovely
Speaker 1: she had posted on instat she said, God, if it's
Speaker 1: the last days, just say it's the last days.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Like, so sometimes it feels like that, whether it's your career,
Speaker 1: your business, or I feel like that it always feels
Speaker 1: like the guy is falling down. If you could just
Speaker 1: give a piece of advice to our listeners, you know,
Speaker 1: whether they own a business, whether they are in their careers,
Speaker 1: like you know, as they move forward. Because to your point,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who have not had abundance
Speaker 1: spoken over them, like one last piece of advice that
Speaker 1: you know, to give them that little boost, you know
Speaker 1: as they as we navigate, you know what is likely
Speaker 1: going to be a recession or whatever else is coming up.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The last thing I would say is what I've
Speaker 2: learned as a black gay man in corporate America is
Speaker 2: that nobody's coming to save you, so and and and
Speaker 2: there's a freedom that comes from that. It sounds pessimistic,
Speaker 2: but there's a freedom that comes from saying that nobody
Speaker 2: is coming to save you. And what I why I
Speaker 2: think that that's so important to know is that but
Speaker 2: there are things that you that you can do as
Speaker 2: it relates to building building your career and building the
Speaker 2: professional life that you want. And the first thing is
Speaker 2: find your flock. We have this, We've been taught that,
Speaker 2: like there's gonna that you can get this mentor or
Speaker 2: a sponsor, and somebody in an ivory tower somewhere is
Speaker 2: going to come down and anoint you with the knowledge
Speaker 2: that you need to take the same career path that
Speaker 2: they took when they were you're age fifteen, twenty years
Speaker 2: ago and the world was totally different. Find what I
Speaker 2: would say is get find your people right, find a
Speaker 2: community and network the hell out of it. My group
Speaker 2: chat has saved my life so many times. And we
Speaker 2: as people of color, I think there's a lot of
Speaker 2: there's a lot of ego and shame tied up around
Speaker 2: talking about money and talking about compensation. We got to
Speaker 2: disavow ourselves of that notion. Find people that you can
Speaker 2: have real conversations with and you can information share, and
Speaker 2: that you can talk to about and you can say,
Speaker 2: did they give me all the interns from Howard because
Speaker 2: I'm black? Or you can say, wait a minute, I
Speaker 2: don't know how to I don't know how to negotiate
Speaker 2: for equity, Like tell me the SKUs again, Like what
Speaker 2: should I be asking for? Is am I asking for enough?
Speaker 2: All of those things matter. Peer to peer mentorship will
Speaker 2: save your life as a person of color. You just
Speaker 2: got to find the right people who are willing to
Speaker 2: share information with and you share information back with them
Speaker 2: your network. That information that comes from your network is amazing.
Speaker 2: Lean into it. Don't let the old rules about not
Speaker 2: talking about money, or I don't want you to know
Speaker 2: how much money I make, or I don't know what
Speaker 2: the only want you to want what my offer was.
Speaker 2: Let that go. It's not a competition. Community will save you.
Speaker 2: The other thing that I would say too is always
Speaker 2: be in the market. Always be in the market. You know,
Speaker 2: when you are comfortable, that's the best time to still
Speaker 2: be looking around to see what your other options and
Speaker 2: your other opportunities are, Right, that's when you have the
Speaker 2: most power to shift and the change, because I will
Speaker 2: tell you that God will make you so uncomfortable in
Speaker 2: comfortable situations that you can't help but move and get
Speaker 2: out of that situation so you can go and be
Speaker 2: who He called you to be. And I know that
Speaker 2: to be a fact. I've lived that myself, and so
Speaker 2: I would say, always be in the market, Always be
Speaker 2: understanding what you're figuring out, what your value is in
Speaker 2: the market. And the last thing I'll say is the
Speaker 2: last thing that the ref says to the two fighters
Speaker 2: in the ring before they ring that bell, is protect
Speaker 2: yourself at all times. And I say that to women,
Speaker 2: I say that to queer people, I say that to
Speaker 2: people of color. Protect yourself at all times, meaning protect
Speaker 2: your peace, protect your integrity, protect the integrity of your
Speaker 2: work and your work quality, and don't let these jobs
Speaker 2: break you don't let them break your spirit. Don't let
Speaker 2: the markets break you, don't let the things that are
Speaker 2: going on in the zeitgeist break you. I said this
Speaker 2: to like about a year ago. I said, White America
Speaker 2: discovered that racism is real and that June tenth exists, right,
Speaker 2: And what I said to you, what I said to
Speaker 2: my black friends and colleagues all the time, is like,
Speaker 2: you do know that if somebody walks up to you
Speaker 2: and ask you to explain racism and the history of
Speaker 2: racism and all of that to them at that particular moment,
Speaker 2: you don't have to get involved in that, right, Like
Speaker 2: there's all of these things that I say about protecting
Speaker 2: your piece, whether it's at work or in any other place.
Speaker 2: And that's also like taking a break when you need it,
Speaker 2: asking for help when you need it. Like, don't you
Speaker 2: know we did a survey around queer professionals and like
Speaker 2: fifty six percent of them say that all of the
Speaker 2: anti gay legislation and the stuff that was happening in government, right,
Speaker 2: the stuff that was happening around them was giving them
Speaker 2: what was causing them to have mental health issues. That's
Speaker 2: over half, right, And so we don't have the luxury
Speaker 2: of not of being able to turn off the world
Speaker 2: just because we got to get up and go to
Speaker 2: work at nine o'clock tomorrow. Right, we don't have that luxury.
Speaker 2: I still am a black man when I get up
Speaker 2: and go to work and do all those things, and
Speaker 2: when I'm driving to work, you know, I also have
Speaker 2: in the back of my head that one in one
Speaker 2: thousand black men will be killed by law enforcement in
Speaker 2: this country. Right, I still have to go to work
Speaker 2: and do all the things. And so what I say
Speaker 2: is like, protect yourself at all times, meaning like give
Speaker 2: yourself space for peace, whatever that means, even if that
Speaker 2: means looking for a new gig, even if that means
Speaker 2: taking some time off, even if that means saying, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm excited that you want to have that conversation. I
Speaker 2: wish more people outside of the black community were interested
Speaker 2: in learning. I applaud you and doing that. I'm just
Speaker 2: not the right person to help you with it. You
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, find your flock, always be in
Speaker 2: the market, and protect yourself at all times.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: That was awesome.
Speaker 3: Drew mccaskell, Thank you so much for joining Bran Ambition.
Speaker 3: I feel like I can listen to you talk all day.
Speaker 3: But if you guys want to find out more about Drew,
Speaker 3: please go follow him immediately on LinkedIn. Right now, we'll
Speaker 3: post a link to his profile in the show notes. Drew,
Speaker 3: thank you so much for joining BA.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. Can they find you?
Speaker 1: Are you on? You on the instagrams?
Speaker 2: I am on the twitters. You can find me at
Speaker 2: Drew mccaskal on Twitter. I talk about career stuff as
Speaker 2: well as my favorite TV shows in politics, So be
Speaker 2: if you go follow me, just be ready because it's
Speaker 2: not all about it's not all professional Drew. So just
Speaker 2: know that my professional install is at Drew mccaskell. You
Speaker 2: can follow me there, but it's all work stuff. Thank you, Drew,
Speaker 2: Thank y'all, thanks for having me all right.
Speaker 1: Bye Bye, Hey Bavan, wasn't that an awesome throwback episode?
Speaker 1: It was such a fun trip down memory lane. Make
Speaker 1: sure to check us out every single week on Monday
Speaker 1: on Wednesday And okay, brought a bitch of this here
Speaker 1: for you. Okay, all right, so we will see you
Speaker 1: on Wednesday next Bye.