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Speaker 1: Hey, Welcome to Big Fish, Small Pot. I'm Andrew Dalt.

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Speaker 1: Today is July first, and really today what I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be talking with you about is a really big

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Speaker 1: change in Marlin's decision makers, talking about the marlins pursuit

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Speaker 1: of sustained success and their recent firing a vice president

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Speaker 1: of player development and scouting, Gary Denbo. Denbo was a

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Speaker 1: guy brought from the New York Yankees in like a

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Speaker 1: player development position. Previously, he'd been like a hitting coordinator,

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Speaker 1: working at that like organizational level, but you know, like

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Speaker 1: taking like like one on one time. Allegedly in twenty

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Speaker 1: eleven he helped like Derek Jeter improve his swing.

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Speaker 2: For a stretch.

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Speaker 1: So that's like kind of like the first hand like

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Speaker 1: pedigree for like Gary Denbo's presence on the Marlins. He

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Speaker 1: was seen as like this like baseball guru type that

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Speaker 1: like sort of like synthesis person between like you're scouting

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Speaker 1: and your player development. You're like watching a player play,

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Speaker 1: seeing what you see and like taking that knowledge and

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Speaker 1: building player development plans with that and like synthesizing.

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Speaker 2: That to really like put the player forward.

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Speaker 1: Like you see an issue in a delivery, you like

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Speaker 1: iron it out it's a really like potentially like innovative

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Speaker 1: and like integral part of like a baseball organization looking

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Speaker 1: to be better than other teams around them. It's a

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Speaker 1: sort of like really really critical position with that access

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Speaker 1: at the executive level, working with like Kim Eng Derek Jeter,

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Speaker 1: and also that like access down the lines and like

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Speaker 1: the scouting department and in player development like way out

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Speaker 1: in Beloit and all across the country out talent. It's

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Speaker 1: a major, major role, and he was really brought over

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Speaker 1: by Jeter, So it kind of like makes sense to

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Speaker 1: kind of like approach this in the context as like

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Speaker 1: Craig Mish has offered on his podcast Swington Mishes, which

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Speaker 1: I really recommend you do like listen to it, but

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Speaker 1: I want to focus on like a couple of like

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Speaker 1: key takeaways from that podcast that Craig Mish mentioned that

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Speaker 1: Kim Ang and Gary Dunbo never really got along and

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Speaker 1: that Denbo had been at something of a distance with

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Speaker 1: the team this season since like Jeter left, he wasn't

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Speaker 1: like as active and Eli Sussman like really covered well

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Speaker 1: on fish Strips to like the progress that the Marlins

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Speaker 1: have made.

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Speaker 2: Under Gary Dunbo in these fields.

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Speaker 1: With regards like the talent they brought into the organization,

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Speaker 1: but he also notes that they've been dragging their feet

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Speaker 1: on paying for extended spring training if there's some oversight

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Speaker 1: that's being made by other teams and they're like the

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Speaker 1: thing with the extended spring training and pay is that

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Speaker 1: it's a hurdle met by many other baseball clubs to

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Speaker 1: just help support their minor leaguers go through the minor

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Speaker 1: leagues with more of like financial wickle room that can

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Speaker 1: certainly benefit them in really tangible on the field ways.

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Speaker 2: In the off season.

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Speaker 1: It might help them focus more on training, for example,

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Speaker 1: or just really any of the benefits that money can

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Speaker 1: give you as a young person developing into an adult

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Speaker 1: focused on a really like clear, succinct goal. It's really

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Speaker 1: like this very like kind of universal thing, not like

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Speaker 1: a baseball specific point, but more like baseball specifically about

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Speaker 1: Gary Denbo. Karen Rosenbaalt wrote an article for The Athletic

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Speaker 1: and trinin teen offering that Derek Jeter's right hand mand

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Speaker 1: is tearing up the franchise and creating enemies along the way,

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Speaker 1: quoting I've never encountered someone in baseball or in life honestly,

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Speaker 1: who seemed to go so far out of their way

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Speaker 1: to treat other people badly, to the extent that you think,

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Speaker 1: why would anyone do this?

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Speaker 2: One former Marlin's employee says.

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Speaker 1: Others say Denvo is giving the Marlins precisely the jolt

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Speaker 1: they need after years of lacking direction under previous owner

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Laurier. He's a next standing guy, focused, very professional,

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Speaker 1: all in on trying to make the Marlins better, very

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Speaker 1: determined to make them great. So as the team's first

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Speaker 1: year minor league catching coordinator, former MLB catcher Jamie Quirk,

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Speaker 1: Jeter Throw spokesman declined to comment on Denvo and all

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Speaker 1: in on trying to make the Marlins better is a

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Speaker 1: really double sword, and that it's devotion to like the team,

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Speaker 1: and that's really cool, Like as a fan, I know

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Speaker 1: the team is also I like to know that the

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Speaker 1: team is also devoted, but can also be like really

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Speaker 1: like narrow focus away.

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Speaker 2: From those kind of like more universal people need.

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Speaker 1: Money to live in spacious places and have nutritious food.

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Speaker 1: But more like all in non changing something to his

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Speaker 1: own standard as defined by his years of experience and

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Speaker 1: his years and years of experience minted as like this

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Speaker 1: hitting coordinator for the Yankees, where he was able to

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Speaker 1: help Jeter with this wing And certainly there's like a

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Speaker 1: like a talent that Denvero brought her some ability to

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Speaker 1: connect with like an elite then veteran player and Derek

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Speaker 1: Jeter and help him out. That's like absolutely an asset

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Speaker 1: to your organization from a coaching perspective, But the polarization

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Speaker 1: in perspective itself is a bit of like a like

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Speaker 1: a tip towards optimism for the fan that maybe Gary

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Speaker 1: Denbo wasn't quite the like absolutely proactive, like stalwart of

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Speaker 1: like player development in this organic sense, but more of

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Speaker 1: this like hardened, goal oriented going towards a specific target

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Speaker 1: sort of leader and not your more like easy going

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Speaker 1: sort of leader as like Kim eng or Don Maddingly.

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Speaker 2: Don Maddenly like.

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Speaker 1: As a like player, he was like a batting champion

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Speaker 1: day in and day out, bringing strong performance to the

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Speaker 1: play and like he had like an MVP year pretty

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Speaker 1: early on, but it wasn't until like nineteen ninety five

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Speaker 1: that he actually saw the playoffs. So it makes a

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Speaker 1: bit of sense that he would have this kind of

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Speaker 1: like ingrained sort of ease on the day to day game,

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Speaker 1: and he certainly like as a leader gives like a

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Speaker 1: high degree of respect like the bullpen can close this

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Speaker 1: out for Sandy, or how he gave like a really

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Speaker 1: long hook with Eliez or Hernandez in the rotation. Donnie

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Speaker 1: as a manager attempt to put each of his players

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Speaker 1: in the best position to succeed. And the way he

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Speaker 1: held a meeting to address a feeling in a tone

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Speaker 1: tells us where he views his responsibility on paper. That

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Speaker 1: works really well with the general manager like Kim Eng

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Speaker 1: or Mike Hill, where patience is like a key piece

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Speaker 1: of their room. It's a different way to manage respect.

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Speaker 1: It's putting your player forward versus putting your respect towards

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Speaker 1: the sport. So Derek Jeter seemed to aptly balance his

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Speaker 1: executive office. But the fact that Denbo was fired really

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Speaker 1: does say that there was some part of the Scouten

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Speaker 1: player development that needed better support than what it had

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Speaker 1: in Gary Denbo. Time will tell if it takes, if

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Speaker 1: he takes the feedback that undoubtedly is there from this firing.

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Speaker 1: That's like pretty like stepped aside from my kind of

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Speaker 1: speculation here, But time I'll also tell whether or not

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Speaker 1: for the rest of the organization had a full scope

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Speaker 1: of like Denvo's work with the organization certainly like any

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Speaker 1: like Corner's cut, even in that like highly specultive sense,

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Speaker 1: could that maybe Miami hasn't like funded pay for extended

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Speaker 1: spring training because of Gary Denbo's sort of like I

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Speaker 1: guess whatever reason you want to say, like old school

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Speaker 1: ways or like some sense of like what it takes

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Speaker 1: to make it to the top of the game. Just

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Speaker 1: like a different sense, they're like whatever like is causing that,

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Speaker 1: like lind Spot, if it's there, all of that like

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Speaker 1: will be seen by people who like pick up the

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Speaker 1: reins of that work there. Certainly it's not one of

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Speaker 1: those things that all the responsibility falls on Denbo. It's

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Speaker 1: a major league organization and there's like a ton of

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Speaker 1: responsibility in that, and some of those things just might

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Speaker 1: not be on the radar of anger Jeter or even

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Speaker 1: if like Bruce Sherman is writing these blank checks with

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Speaker 1: the nature of like Jeter's exit, it certainly doesn't sound

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Speaker 1: like Miami is receiving blank checks to work with. But

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Speaker 1: it does really make sense that under like such a

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Speaker 1: financial limitation, every opportunity to support player development wasn't taken

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Speaker 1: under Gary Denvo.

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Speaker 2: It might be like a deeper issue than that.

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Speaker 1: Maybe like it's even somehow like an analytic political wing

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Speaker 1: that we haven't seen like such hitting development.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that's something.

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Speaker 1: That's been like really like well bought out and well

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Speaker 1: defined on the page, and then Gary Denbo is able

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Speaker 1: to better target towards that succinct goal, and maybe this

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Speaker 1: hitting isn't quite like that. Maybe that's like why there's

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Speaker 1: been this like apparent discrepancy in performance on those sides

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Speaker 1: of the field for the Marlins with Denbo in that position.

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Speaker 1: But again, like this is really like speculative talk. Certainly

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Speaker 1: more of this will like air out, But like as

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Speaker 1: a fan, I'm optimistic at the moment, I think that

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Speaker 1: there's like a real chance that this sort of like

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Speaker 1: cohesion in the upper echelon of the Molds organization that

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Speaker 1: like could emerge. Certainly like sounds like it is. I'm

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Speaker 1: not exactly flattered by Gary Denbo reading that Ken Rosenthal piece.

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Speaker 1: Hearing about how he insisted that the Greensboro Grasshoppers remove

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Speaker 1: their like batting dogs from the house really like strikes

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Speaker 1: me as like a you can't really like take the

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Speaker 1: kitchen out of the ballpark sort of thing, So definitely

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Speaker 1: take that into consideration. I'm Andrew Rdall, not like anyone

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Speaker 1: who's ever met Gary denbo or like knows what's going

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Speaker 1: on in these actual interpersonal dynamics, but as a fan,

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Speaker 1: I'm optimistic that there could be room for improvement and

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Speaker 1: improvement in the ways of the organization are maybe like

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Speaker 1: most embarrassing at the moment being that funding for extended

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Speaker 1: spring training day along with that, hoping for like a

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Speaker 1: less of like an all in attitude today we like

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Speaker 1: more like harmonious with others around you as like an

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Speaker 1: alternative to that, except for like nights like tonight, if

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Speaker 1: you're the Marlins on the road in Washington Miami looking

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Speaker 1: to bring like a total like discordant stance against the

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Speaker 1: thousands of attendees in a matchup of young arms. Josiah Gray,

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Speaker 1: Trevor Rodgers. This is the first of four from Washington.

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Speaker 1: Fish Stripes Live will be with you leading up to

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Speaker 1: that seven oh five start for the podcast I've been

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Speaker 1: Andrew Ridald, be back with you on Wednesday,