WEBVTT - Sessions Maintains Silence on Talks with Trump (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>It was the first appearance of Jeff's Sessions before the

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<v Speaker 1>Senate Judiciary Committee since his confirmation as Attorney General, and

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<v Speaker 1>yesterday was more memorable for the question Sessions refused to

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<v Speaker 1>answer than for those he did, and for the contentious

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<v Speaker 1>nature of the questioning. Here's Vermont Democratic Senator Patrick Lahy

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<v Speaker 1>asking Sessions about contacts with the Russian government during the

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<v Speaker 1>presidential campaign, including the two lawyers discussing the legal implications

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<v Speaker 1>of certain words. Is there a difference between responding no

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<v Speaker 1>and I do not recall well that legally significant? Yes?

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<v Speaker 1>Repeat the question again about emails since the campaign. If

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<v Speaker 1>you discussed with any Russian connected official anything about emails,

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<v Speaker 1>discuss with them, I don't recall. I haven't done any

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<v Speaker 1>such thing. Sessions repeatedly denied any improper contacts with the

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<v Speaker 1>Russian government during the presidential campaign. Joining us are Ryan Goodman,

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<v Speaker 1>professor at n y U Law School, and Jeff Kramer,

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<v Speaker 1>managing director at Berkeley Research Group and a former federal prosecutor.

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<v Speaker 1>Ryan there were many long silences and hesitation in answering

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<v Speaker 1>questions by Jeff Sessions. Could this be seen as a

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<v Speaker 1>lawyer who was burned in his last appearance before this committee,

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<v Speaker 1>and was being very very careful about everything he said.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's right. He had to be careful about

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<v Speaker 1>each and every word because now everybody is picking apart

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<v Speaker 1>each and every word that he says in response to

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<v Speaker 1>these kinds of specific questions from Senator Leahy about Russian

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<v Speaker 1>contexts and other things like that. So I think each

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<v Speaker 1>time you could tell an important moments, he was pausing

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<v Speaker 1>to think very clearly what his response needs to be. Jeff,

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<v Speaker 1>amid all those pauses and thinking and carefulness, did we

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<v Speaker 1>learn anything about the Russia investigation or the contacts between

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<v Speaker 1>the between Trump officials in in in Russian officials at

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<v Speaker 1>all during yesterday's testimony? No, I don't think so. There

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<v Speaker 1>Not only weren't there any great revelations, I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>there any revelations at all. It was just parsing words.

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<v Speaker 1>The attorney general, former prosecutor in Alabama was very careful,

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<v Speaker 1>as was just discussed, UH to to to parse his

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<v Speaker 1>words and make sure he wouldn't set himself up for

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<v Speaker 1>any sort of perjury trap later. But this was not

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily a quest for new information. UH politics was certainly

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<v Speaker 1>on display there. Ryan tell us what he said about

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<v Speaker 1>the special counsels Robert Mueller's investigation, did he appear to

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<v Speaker 1>give it his imprima tour, so to speak? Right? I

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<v Speaker 1>think that he in the sensus thing clear of that.

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<v Speaker 1>So in a way that Mueller can infect advance with

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<v Speaker 1>the investigation, and I think would be politically unwise for

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<v Speaker 1>him to do anything else. But Jeff, let me ask

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<v Speaker 1>you that sort of the same question. So in Sessions

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<v Speaker 1>was asked about Robert Mueller and whether he had confidence

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<v Speaker 1>in him. His his answer was, I think he will

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<v Speaker 1>produce the work in a way he thinks is correct,

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<v Speaker 1>and history will judge. Um. Does that strike you as

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<v Speaker 1>as as tepid of an endorsement as it strikes me.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm laughing as you said that, Michael Um. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't imagine anything that would be more milk post um.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think others and even on the Republican side,

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<v Speaker 1>have have vouched for former Director Mueller as a man

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<v Speaker 1>of integrity. But certainly the Attorney General left himself the

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<v Speaker 1>whibble room. So if the report doesn't come out or

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<v Speaker 1>an investigation doesn't come out as he thought fit, that

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<v Speaker 1>history would would judge this. He wasn't even saying that

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<v Speaker 1>Mueller was a was a good and honorable man. He

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't even giving him that. So there was there was

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<v Speaker 1>nothing from the Attorney General that was gracious at all

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<v Speaker 1>in that answer. Ryan. There was a great deal of

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<v Speaker 1>questioning about executive privilege because Sessions refused to answer any

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<v Speaker 1>questions or discuss his conversations with President Trump, leading Democratic

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<v Speaker 1>Senator Sheldon white House to ask him about a letter

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<v Speaker 1>by President Reagan and the guidelines for executive privilege tell

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<v Speaker 1>us about that. So the guidelines from the Reagan administration

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<v Speaker 1>basically would require Sessions to give a commitment to the

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<v Speaker 1>senator as to when he would come back with a

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<v Speaker 1>determination from the president as to whether or not the

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<v Speaker 1>president will will assert executive privilege. But you could say

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<v Speaker 1>that the ball is really in Congress's court because they

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<v Speaker 1>have not forced the issue. Um the way in which

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<v Speaker 1>they would need to force the issue is either to

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<v Speaker 1>subpoena Sessions rather than him appear willing fully and this

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<v Speaker 1>kind of a setting, or for them to they could

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<v Speaker 1>supposedly they could apparently jump over subpoena and just say

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<v Speaker 1>we will hold you in contempt if you do not

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<v Speaker 1>either answer our question or a executive privilege. So that's

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<v Speaker 1>really the kind of lack of political will on the

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<v Speaker 1>part of the Senate to assert its prerogative if they

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<v Speaker 1>really want to get an answer to the question as

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<v Speaker 1>to whether or not there is an assertion of the

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<v Speaker 1>executive privilege, at least an answer to the very specific

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<v Speaker 1>question of what they're after, which is to find out

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<v Speaker 1>what Sessions knew about and consulted with the president about

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<v Speaker 1>the firing of James Comy. Jeff. Given that the Democrats

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<v Speaker 1>are in the majority, they may well want to do

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<v Speaker 1>some of those things that Ryan was talking about, but

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<v Speaker 1>but don't have the votes to do it. Um. Do

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<v Speaker 1>they have any recourse here? They did send Sessions a

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<v Speaker 1>letter before this this testimony is saying we expect you

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<v Speaker 1>to either answer the questions or tell us that the

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<v Speaker 1>president is invoking executive privilege, but they they he seemingly

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<v Speaker 1>just ignored that letter he did. Um. And there's so

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<v Speaker 1>there's not much teeth what the Democrats can do other

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<v Speaker 1>than the court of public opinion. Um. And that changes

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<v Speaker 1>on a day to day basis, depending what the emergency

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<v Speaker 1>of the day is. So you know, there is not

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<v Speaker 1>much they can do. They can send any letters they want,

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<v Speaker 1>the Attorney General can ignore them or dance around the

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<v Speaker 1>questions and just get through the testimony. We're talking about

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<v Speaker 1>Jeff sessions first oversight hearing as Attorney General before the

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<v Speaker 1>Senate Judiciary Committee yesterday. Our guests are Ryan Goodman, a

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<v Speaker 1>professor at n y U Law School, and Jeffrey Cramer,

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<v Speaker 1>managing director at Berkeley Research Group and a former federal prosecutor.

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<v Speaker 1>Jeff there was some questioning about Special Counsel Robert Muller.

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<v Speaker 1>What did we learn? Um, Well, a lot of the

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<v Speaker 1>questions pertain to just kind of looking into the into

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<v Speaker 1>the future as to what might be the future, not

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<v Speaker 1>only the investigation, but of Muller himself. So while the

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<v Speaker 1>Attorney General has recused himself, it's up to the Dag

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<v Speaker 1>the w Attorney General UH now technically to be in

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<v Speaker 1>charge of Muller. And the questions pertained to how the

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<v Speaker 1>president might uh dismiss Muller and what the process would

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<v Speaker 1>be UH. There was no guarantees on the part of

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<v Speaker 1>the Attorney General now that he's recused himself, which he

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<v Speaker 1>read or it was a proper thing to do, which

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<v Speaker 1>which I agree with, UM. But a lot of the

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<v Speaker 1>democratic senators were concerned that the president may just started

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<v Speaker 1>going through the Department of Justice and firing people until

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<v Speaker 1>he finds someone willing to get rid of Robert Mueller.

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<v Speaker 1>Ryan Jeff Sessions was asked whether Robert Mueller had requested

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<v Speaker 1>an interview with him. UH. For first, I said I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think so, and then eventually he said no. Does

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<v Speaker 1>that tell us anything about the pace or what's going

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<v Speaker 1>on with uh Mr Muller's investigation. Um, it's hard to

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<v Speaker 1>read the tea leaves on that one. UM. There was

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<v Speaker 1>a very strange pause in the part of the Attorney

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<v Speaker 1>General and answer to the question from Senator Leahy is

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<v Speaker 1>to whether or not he's been requested to interview with

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<v Speaker 1>Mueller's team. UM. I think my best interpretation of that

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<v Speaker 1>is just that Sessions hadn't been fully prepared to know

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<v Speaker 1>how to answer that question whether he should confirm or

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<v Speaker 1>not confirm, or deny or deny. UM. So the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that he isn't or has not yet being interviewed by

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<v Speaker 1>Mueller might at best be an indication as to where

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<v Speaker 1>Mueller's thinking about going on the obstruction of justice inquiry.

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<v Speaker 1>Because there's some question as to whether or not Sessions

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<v Speaker 1>himself would be implicated in the obstruction of justice if

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<v Speaker 1>he was involved in firing the firing of Jim Comey

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<v Speaker 1>for the reason of interfering with the Russian investigation and

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<v Speaker 1>uh Sessions defended the firing of James Comey and insisted

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<v Speaker 1>that it stemmed from Comey's mishandling of the Hillary Clinton

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<v Speaker 1>email case. Did he make a good effort at that,

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<v Speaker 1>Jeff um half hearted. He certainly told the company line

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<v Speaker 1>with respect to the reason that Jim Comey was far

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<v Speaker 1>The problem is the President has given different answers himself.

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<v Speaker 1>The last thing the Attorney General was going to do

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<v Speaker 1>was step outside the box. So he just told the

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<v Speaker 1>line and said that Jim Comey was fired due to

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<v Speaker 1>his mishandling. And in his opinion of the Clinton email

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<v Speaker 1>over the President has on record saying that it pertained

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<v Speaker 1>to at least the Russian investigation a little bit. So again,

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<v Speaker 1>no new revelations there. He didn't get himself in any trouble,

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<v Speaker 1>but he wasn't going to go outside what the President

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<v Speaker 1>had initially said Ryan's. Sessions was asked several times whether

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<v Speaker 1>before firing Jim call Me, whether President Trump had said

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<v Speaker 1>it would quote lift the cloud of the Russia investigation,

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<v Speaker 1>and the Attorney General said, I won't discuss those conversations.

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<v Speaker 1>Some people have said, well, it would have been pretty

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<v Speaker 1>easy for Jeff Sessions to say no, I didn't hear

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<v Speaker 1>him say that. Um is it fair to to uh

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<v Speaker 1>infer anything from the fact that he wouldn't wouldn't respond

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<v Speaker 1>to that question? Um? I don't think it's fair and

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<v Speaker 1>for anything, because if he answers just that one question,

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<v Speaker 1>then in a sense he has waived or they have

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<v Speaker 1>waived executive privilege. So why could he answer that one

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<v Speaker 1>question and then not answer a series of others that

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<v Speaker 1>would follow on it. So I think that was a

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<v Speaker 1>problem for him, But I do I think he got

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<v Speaker 1>himself in a little bit of trouble just in the

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<v Speaker 1>atmospherics of the way he handled these questions. Uh So,

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<v Speaker 1>something that kind of went viral and social media is

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<v Speaker 1>the Q and A between Lindsey Graham and Sessions on

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<v Speaker 1>this very question. And Lindsey Graham asks a very point

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<v Speaker 1>in question, which is, if the rationale for firing Comie

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<v Speaker 1>was his handling of the Clinton emails, why wouldn't the

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<v Speaker 1>president have known that on day one? Since that was

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<v Speaker 1>so that was last year, and why would it take

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<v Speaker 1>until May ninth to make that kind of a determination.

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<v Speaker 1>And then there's a very long, uncomfortable pause on the

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<v Speaker 1>part of the Attorney General not knowing really how to

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<v Speaker 1>respond to that. I think that hurt him. I think,

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<v Speaker 1>at least in the court of public opinion, uh to

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<v Speaker 1>understand like, is that a real plausible explanation that he's given. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>it didn't come out right for him. I didn't think Jeff,

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<v Speaker 1>and we have about thirty seconds here in any other

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<v Speaker 1>areas that he was asked questions in, for example, gay rights,

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<v Speaker 1>Um did was there anything revealing that he said that

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<v Speaker 1>that changed our opinion of what he's been doing? No,

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<v Speaker 1>not at all. I think while there's been some confusion

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<v Speaker 1>by the White Houses to where they stand on their issues,

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<v Speaker 1>the Department of Justice has been pretty clear. They're locking

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<v Speaker 1>up illegal aliens, they want to set up more federal prisons,

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<v Speaker 1>they're cracking down on drugs, They're giving local prosecutors les leeway.

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<v Speaker 1>They have been very linear as to what and what

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<v Speaker 1>they're doing at the Department of Justice. Uh. So, I

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<v Speaker 1>think that's a problem for a lot of people who

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<v Speaker 1>we are dialing back least to my opinion, to how

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<v Speaker 1>we tackle these problems in the nineties. I want to

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<v Speaker 1>thank both of you for being on Bloomberg Law. That's

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<v Speaker 1>Jeffrey Kramer, Managing director at Berkeley Research Group and Ryan Goodman,

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<v Speaker 1>professor at m y U Law School, coming up on

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Law. How nondisclosure agreements in sexual harassment settlements contribute

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<v Speaker 1>to the culture of silence around workplace harassment.