1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: It was the first appearance of Jeff's Sessions before the 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Senate Judiciary Committee since his confirmation as Attorney General, and 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: yesterday was more memorable for the question Sessions refused to 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: answer than for those he did, and for the contentious 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: nature of the questioning. Here's Vermont Democratic Senator Patrick Lahy 6 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: asking Sessions about contacts with the Russian government during the 7 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: presidential campaign, including the two lawyers discussing the legal implications 8 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: of certain words. Is there a difference between responding no 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: and I do not recall well that legally significant? Yes? 10 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: Repeat the question again about emails since the campaign. If 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: you discussed with any Russian connected official anything about emails, 12 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: discuss with them, I don't recall. I haven't done any 13 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: such thing. Sessions repeatedly denied any improper contacts with the 14 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: Russian government during the presidential campaign. Joining us are Ryan Goodman, 15 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: professor at n y U Law School, and Jeff Kramer, 16 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: managing director at Berkeley Research Group and a former federal prosecutor. 17 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: Ryan there were many long silences and hesitation in answering 18 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: questions by Jeff Sessions. Could this be seen as a 19 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: lawyer who was burned in his last appearance before this committee, 20 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 1: and was being very very careful about everything he said. 21 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: I think that's right. He had to be careful about 22 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: each and every word because now everybody is picking apart 23 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: each and every word that he says in response to 24 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: these kinds of specific questions from Senator Leahy about Russian 25 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 1: contexts and other things like that. So I think each 26 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: time you could tell an important moments, he was pausing 27 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: to think very clearly what his response needs to be. Jeff, 28 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: amid all those pauses and thinking and carefulness, did we 29 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: learn anything about the Russia investigation or the contacts between 30 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: the between Trump officials in in in Russian officials at 31 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: all during yesterday's testimony? No, I don't think so. There 32 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: Not only weren't there any great revelations, I don't think 33 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: there any revelations at all. It was just parsing words. 34 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: The attorney general, former prosecutor in Alabama was very careful, 35 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: as was just discussed, UH to to to parse his 36 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: words and make sure he wouldn't set himself up for 37 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: any sort of perjury trap later. But this was not 38 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: necessarily a quest for new information. UH politics was certainly 39 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: on display there. Ryan tell us what he said about 40 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: the special counsels Robert Mueller's investigation, did he appear to 41 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: give it his imprima tour, so to speak? Right? I 42 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: think that he in the sensus thing clear of that. 43 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: So in a way that Mueller can infect advance with 44 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: the investigation, and I think would be politically unwise for 45 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: him to do anything else. But Jeff, let me ask 46 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: you that sort of the same question. So in Sessions 47 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: was asked about Robert Mueller and whether he had confidence 48 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: in him. His his answer was, I think he will 49 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: produce the work in a way he thinks is correct, 50 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: and history will judge. Um. Does that strike you as 51 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: as as tepid of an endorsement as it strikes me. 52 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: I'm laughing as you said that, Michael Um. Yeah, I 53 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: couldn't imagine anything that would be more milk post um. 54 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: And I think others and even on the Republican side, 55 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: have have vouched for former Director Mueller as a man 56 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: of integrity. But certainly the Attorney General left himself the 57 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: whibble room. So if the report doesn't come out or 58 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: an investigation doesn't come out as he thought fit, that 59 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: history would would judge this. He wasn't even saying that 60 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: Mueller was a was a good and honorable man. He 61 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: wasn't even giving him that. So there was there was 62 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: nothing from the Attorney General that was gracious at all 63 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: in that answer. Ryan. There was a great deal of 64 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: questioning about executive privilege because Sessions refused to answer any 65 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:07,559 Speaker 1: questions or discuss his conversations with President Trump, leading Democratic 66 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: Senator Sheldon white House to ask him about a letter 67 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: by President Reagan and the guidelines for executive privilege tell 68 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: us about that. So the guidelines from the Reagan administration 69 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: basically would require Sessions to give a commitment to the 70 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: senator as to when he would come back with a 71 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: determination from the president as to whether or not the 72 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: president will will assert executive privilege. But you could say 73 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: that the ball is really in Congress's court because they 74 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: have not forced the issue. Um the way in which 75 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: they would need to force the issue is either to 76 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: subpoena Sessions rather than him appear willing fully and this 77 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: kind of a setting, or for them to they could 78 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: supposedly they could apparently jump over subpoena and just say 79 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: we will hold you in contempt if you do not 80 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: either answer our question or a executive privilege. So that's 81 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: really the kind of lack of political will on the 82 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: part of the Senate to assert its prerogative if they 83 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: really want to get an answer to the question as 84 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: to whether or not there is an assertion of the 85 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: executive privilege, at least an answer to the very specific 86 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: question of what they're after, which is to find out 87 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: what Sessions knew about and consulted with the president about 88 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: the firing of James Comy. Jeff. Given that the Democrats 89 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: are in the majority, they may well want to do 90 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: some of those things that Ryan was talking about, but 91 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: but don't have the votes to do it. Um. Do 92 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: they have any recourse here? They did send Sessions a 93 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: letter before this this testimony is saying we expect you 94 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: to either answer the questions or tell us that the 95 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: president is invoking executive privilege, but they they he seemingly 96 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: just ignored that letter he did. Um. And there's so 97 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: there's not much teeth what the Democrats can do other 98 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: than the court of public opinion. Um. And that changes 99 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: on a day to day basis, depending what the emergency 100 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: of the day is. So you know, there is not 101 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: much they can do. They can send any letters they want, 102 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: the Attorney General can ignore them or dance around the 103 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: questions and just get through the testimony. We're talking about 104 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: Jeff sessions first oversight hearing as Attorney General before the 105 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: Senate Judiciary Committee yesterday. Our guests are Ryan Goodman, a 106 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: professor at n y U Law School, and Jeffrey Cramer, 107 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: managing director at Berkeley Research Group and a former federal prosecutor. 108 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: Jeff there was some questioning about Special Counsel Robert Muller. 109 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: What did we learn? Um, Well, a lot of the 110 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: questions pertain to just kind of looking into the into 111 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: the future as to what might be the future, not 112 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: only the investigation, but of Muller himself. So while the 113 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: Attorney General has recused himself, it's up to the Dag 114 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,919 Speaker 1: the w Attorney General UH now technically to be in 115 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: charge of Muller. And the questions pertained to how the 116 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: president might uh dismiss Muller and what the process would 117 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: be UH. There was no guarantees on the part of 118 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: the Attorney General now that he's recused himself, which he 119 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: read or it was a proper thing to do, which 120 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: which I agree with, UM. But a lot of the 121 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: democratic senators were concerned that the president may just started 122 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: going through the Department of Justice and firing people until 123 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: he finds someone willing to get rid of Robert Mueller. 124 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: Ryan Jeff Sessions was asked whether Robert Mueller had requested 125 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: an interview with him. UH. For first, I said I 126 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: don't think so, and then eventually he said no. Does 127 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: that tell us anything about the pace or what's going 128 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: on with uh Mr Muller's investigation. Um, it's hard to 129 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: read the tea leaves on that one. UM. There was 130 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: a very strange pause in the part of the Attorney 131 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: General and answer to the question from Senator Leahy is 132 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: to whether or not he's been requested to interview with 133 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: Mueller's team. UM. I think my best interpretation of that 134 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: is just that Sessions hadn't been fully prepared to know 135 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: how to answer that question whether he should confirm or 136 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: not confirm, or deny or deny. UM. So the fact 137 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: that he isn't or has not yet being interviewed by 138 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: Mueller might at best be an indication as to where 139 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: Mueller's thinking about going on the obstruction of justice inquiry. 140 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: Because there's some question as to whether or not Sessions 141 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: himself would be implicated in the obstruction of justice if 142 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: he was involved in firing the firing of Jim Comey 143 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: for the reason of interfering with the Russian investigation and 144 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: uh Sessions defended the firing of James Comey and insisted 145 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: that it stemmed from Comey's mishandling of the Hillary Clinton 146 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: email case. Did he make a good effort at that, 147 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: Jeff um half hearted. He certainly told the company line 148 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: with respect to the reason that Jim Comey was far 149 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: The problem is the President has given different answers himself. 150 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: The last thing the Attorney General was going to do 151 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: was step outside the box. So he just told the 152 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: line and said that Jim Comey was fired due to 153 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: his mishandling. And in his opinion of the Clinton email 154 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 1: over the President has on record saying that it pertained 155 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,079 Speaker 1: to at least the Russian investigation a little bit. So again, 156 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: no new revelations there. He didn't get himself in any trouble, 157 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: but he wasn't going to go outside what the President 158 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: had initially said Ryan's. Sessions was asked several times whether 159 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: before firing Jim call Me, whether President Trump had said 160 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: it would quote lift the cloud of the Russia investigation, 161 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: and the Attorney General said, I won't discuss those conversations. 162 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: Some people have said, well, it would have been pretty 163 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: easy for Jeff Sessions to say no, I didn't hear 164 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: him say that. Um is it fair to to uh 165 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: infer anything from the fact that he wouldn't wouldn't respond 166 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: to that question? Um? I don't think it's fair and 167 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: for anything, because if he answers just that one question, 168 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: then in a sense he has waived or they have 169 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: waived executive privilege. So why could he answer that one 170 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: question and then not answer a series of others that 171 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: would follow on it. So I think that was a 172 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: problem for him, But I do I think he got 173 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: himself in a little bit of trouble just in the 174 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: atmospherics of the way he handled these questions. Uh So, 175 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: something that kind of went viral and social media is 176 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: the Q and A between Lindsey Graham and Sessions on 177 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: this very question. And Lindsey Graham asks a very point 178 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: in question, which is, if the rationale for firing Comie 179 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: was his handling of the Clinton emails, why wouldn't the 180 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: president have known that on day one? Since that was 181 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 1: so that was last year, and why would it take 182 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,839 Speaker 1: until May ninth to make that kind of a determination. 183 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: And then there's a very long, uncomfortable pause on the 184 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: part of the Attorney General not knowing really how to 185 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: respond to that. I think that hurt him. I think, 186 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: at least in the court of public opinion, uh to 187 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: understand like, is that a real plausible explanation that he's given. Um, 188 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: it didn't come out right for him. I didn't think Jeff, 189 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: and we have about thirty seconds here in any other 190 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: areas that he was asked questions in, for example, gay rights, 191 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: Um did was there anything revealing that he said that 192 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: that changed our opinion of what he's been doing? No, 193 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: not at all. I think while there's been some confusion 194 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: by the White Houses to where they stand on their issues, 195 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice has been pretty clear. They're locking 196 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: up illegal aliens, they want to set up more federal prisons, 197 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: they're cracking down on drugs, They're giving local prosecutors les leeway. 198 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: They have been very linear as to what and what 199 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: they're doing at the Department of Justice. Uh. So, I 200 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: think that's a problem for a lot of people who 201 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: we are dialing back least to my opinion, to how 202 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: we tackle these problems in the nineties. I want to 203 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: thank both of you for being on Bloomberg Law. That's 204 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Kramer, Managing director at Berkeley Research Group and Ryan Goodman, 205 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: professor at m y U Law School, coming up on 206 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law. How nondisclosure agreements in sexual harassment settlements contribute 207 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,319 Speaker 1: to the culture of silence around workplace harassment.