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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steph

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Speaker 1: moo never told you production of I Heart Radio. It's

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Speaker 1: time today for another book club. Yeay, and this one

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Speaker 1: is a listener suggestion. A few of you suggested it,

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Speaker 1: and my therapist highly recommended it for me. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: to all the listeners who we were like, hey, we're

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Speaker 1: doing this book, they're like, yeah, we've already got it

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Speaker 1: this time for us. Do we get it too? So

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Speaker 1: I hope you guys are joining in as well. I

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Speaker 1: hope you guys are going to send us your takes

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Speaker 1: as well. Yes, absolutely so. We're doing Untamed by Glennon Doyle,

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Speaker 1: who is an activist one of the founders of the

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Speaker 1: nonprofit Together Rising. She's a speaker and an author. Um

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Speaker 1: It's a memoir of several short and interconnected, nonlinear antecdotes

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Speaker 1: um around themes of motherhood, womanhood, love, grief, faith, sexuality, race, depression,

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Speaker 1: and finding and trusting your true self. It's a story

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Speaker 1: of destruction and rebirth, of constantly searching out our truest

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Speaker 1: and most beautiful life. And not surprisingly, it was recently

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Speaker 1: Reese's book club Hello Sunshine book pick. As in Reese

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Speaker 1: Weatherspoon and if you saw the photo of them doing

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Speaker 1: the zoom chat um and a New York Times bestseller

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Speaker 1: since it came out in March and apparently just recently

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Speaker 1: was on like the Christian self help Yes, which I

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Speaker 1: find fascinating, Which is hilarious because I believe they denounced

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Speaker 1: her after this book came out and her announcement to

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Speaker 1: her marriage to Abbey one Buck. So uh, it is

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting and I think she did find some

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Speaker 1: hilarity to that as what did we? Yeah, and um,

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Speaker 1: that's something I really appreciated that she touched on in

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Speaker 1: the book actually, is how there she she did have

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Speaker 1: this Christian audience and some of them followed her through

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Speaker 1: this transition um of like what transitioned in terms of

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Speaker 1: her books and what they were about and the stories

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Speaker 1: that were in them. Um, and some really would reach

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Speaker 1: out to her and say, you know, I love you

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Speaker 1: and I followed you and I'm struggling with my religion.

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Speaker 1: Says that some of the things you're doing don't fit

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Speaker 1: in and how do I square that? And having those

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Speaker 1: honest conversations around that point. Um, she once was a

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Speaker 1: Christian mom blogger. That's not a Surprise, and is the

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Speaker 1: author of two other books, again which we're on the

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Speaker 1: Christian level Christian self help level, UM Love Warrior and

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Speaker 1: Carry On Warrior The Power of Embracing Your Messy, Beautiful Life,

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Speaker 1: which is a really nice title. It is. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things I really loved about this book is

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Speaker 1: it's very very open and UM vulnerable and spiritual, but

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Speaker 1: in a way that I can connect to because some

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Speaker 1: of that stuff which we're going to talk about, I

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Speaker 1: have a knee jerk like nervousness around UM. But I

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Speaker 1: haven't read these other two books, but I imagine that

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Speaker 1: it's similar in that nature of just being really open

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Speaker 1: and honest that you can connect to it. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: this is a very quote heavy episode because there are

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Speaker 1: so many amazing quotes in it, and it's also just

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Speaker 1: the nature of how it's written. Uh And told lens

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Speaker 1: itself to quotes because it captures the essence of her message.

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Speaker 1: Her writing is very nuanced. It's it's sort of hard

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Speaker 1: to summarize UM, some of the things that are very

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Speaker 1: personal but also relatable that she is touching on without

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Speaker 1: just quoting it right right, which is too easy to do.

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Speaker 1: I know one of the listeners who are that she

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Speaker 1: is going to start all of her sinuses would but

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Speaker 1: the book says, and I'm like, yeah, I understand this,

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Speaker 1: I understand this idea of yeah, tired chapter, you just

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Speaker 1: gonna just sit here in quote things and This Morning Makers,

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Speaker 1: the Maker's Women Instagram actually had a quote from her

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Speaker 1: book as well. So it's really easy to do. Um.

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Speaker 1: And obviously this is a little different from the last

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Speaker 1: two books that we did, which were very much fiction.

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Speaker 1: Mhm uh so very different. One is a memoir, um.

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Speaker 1: But to get to the basics of the book, the

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Speaker 1: memoir follows author Glynn and Doyle's decision to divorce her

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Speaker 1: husband and pursue love with the woman she's fallen in

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Speaker 1: love with, Abby wan Buck. And by the way, it

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Speaker 1: took me to the end of the book because I

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Speaker 1: don't know much about her history to figure out, Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's the women's soccer. Oh. Oh, it's funny that you

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Speaker 1: say that, because I actually, um, I'm not super into soccer,

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Speaker 1: but I would say I am more into it than

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Speaker 1: maybe the average American is, and a lot of my

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Speaker 1: friends are super into it, and especially women's soccer. So

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Speaker 1: when she's at the book conference after they've just met,

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Speaker 1: and she sort of mentioned in passing, oh she's a

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Speaker 1: soccer star, and all those people were waiting in line

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Speaker 1: to get her autograph. I remember having the thought like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if it's Abbey. Actually, like, oh, of course

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Speaker 1: it is. I was like, I know one Abby, but no,

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Speaker 1: that's that's not that's not the one. Okay, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: did the same thing. But back to this is filled

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Speaker 1: with instances before, during, and after that delve into her

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Speaker 1: taming quote unquote, and the work she put into quote

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Speaker 1: unquote taming um and many involved her children, which is

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Speaker 1: very much expected, and other family members and the support

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Speaker 1: of women in her life as well as her husband.

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Speaker 1: And it is like, I love the way she does

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Speaker 1: bring in the whole fold as a reawakening for each

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Speaker 1: one of them. Yeah. Yeah. And in this memoir, Doyle

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Speaker 1: details that eating disorders she struggled with for years when

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Speaker 1: she developed at the age of ten or eleven, her

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Speaker 1: struggles with alcoholism and drug use, and spending sixteen years

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Speaker 1: being numb, as she called it, and the subsequent sobriety

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Speaker 1: when she discovered she was pregnant. Her husband's infidelity leads

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Speaker 1: to your's of indecision of what she should do leave

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Speaker 1: her stay, a lot of researching online. I totally connected

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Speaker 1: with this too, of like what to do when your

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Speaker 1: husband's cheated and but their children involved, and just looking

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Speaker 1: at all these articles that are telling you different things

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Speaker 1: and being so unsure of I often joked that Google

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Speaker 1: is my therapist. I'll be like Google doctor feeling. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Google is my doctor. I was like, all right, symptoms,

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Speaker 1: am I dying? Okay? Great? And Google is like Samantha No.

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Speaker 1: I'm also convinced Google, for some reason, thinks I'm a cat,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know why I could see that. I'm

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Speaker 1: starting to Google. I don't know what you see in

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Speaker 1: me that I don't see. But well, Netflix, doesn't the

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Speaker 1: guy exists, the the that is just not exist. Are

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Speaker 1: you there? Are you sure you're there? Yes? Yes, Okay.

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Speaker 1: But back to the book Glynn and Doyle. So that

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Speaker 1: decision to leave her stay her husband is further complicated

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Speaker 1: when she falls in love at first sight. It's a

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Speaker 1: beautiful scene with Abby at this book conference. Through self

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Speaker 1: discovery and learning to trust her in her voice what

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Speaker 1: she calls the Knowing Capital K, Doyle realizes that the

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Speaker 1: eating disorder, the alcoholism. We're all symptoms of her denying,

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Speaker 1: her discontent, of her trying to be a quote good woman. Right.

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Speaker 1: And the book opens up with her and her family

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Speaker 1: at the zoo and watching a cheetah chase a jeep

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Speaker 1: with a ragged pink bunny attached to the back. As

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Speaker 1: they drove away, she caught a glimpse of the cheetah,

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Speaker 1: who had been raised in the wild, stalking next to

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Speaker 1: the fence, taught ready to stalk, to attack the wild,

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Speaker 1: very much still a part of the cheetah. Um. And

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Speaker 1: she wants to yell with the cheetah. And I think

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Speaker 1: it was one of those moments because her daughter had

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Speaker 1: so many questions. Um, quote, you're not crazy, You're a

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Speaker 1: goddamn cheetah. And she examines her own taming, which started

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Speaker 1: at the age of ten when we learn how to

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Speaker 1: be good girls and good boys. Yeah. I love that

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Speaker 1: quote and it comes back many times throughout the book.

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Speaker 1: You're a goddamn cheetah. I love it. So when it

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Speaker 1: comes to themes, a big one is the patriarchy, Dante

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Speaker 1: Lada and white supremacy. Um, so we wanted to read

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Speaker 1: this quote is kind of long, but again, I just thought,

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Speaker 1: that's so good, so exemplary of what this book is

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Speaker 1: about and what how it relates and fits so well

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Speaker 1: with our show and what we talk about. Our culture

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Speaker 1: was built upon and benefits from, the control of women.

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Speaker 1: The way power justifies controlling a group is by conditioning

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Speaker 1: the masses to believe that the group cannot be trusted.

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Speaker 1: So the campaign to convince us to mistrust women begins

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Speaker 1: early and comes from everywhere. When we are little, girls

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Speaker 1: are families, teachers, and peers insists that are allowed voices,

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Speaker 1: bold opinions, and strong feelings are too much and un ladylike,

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Speaker 1: so we learn not to trust our personalities. Childhood stories

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Speaker 1: promises that girls who dare to leave the path or

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Speaker 1: explore get attacked by big, bad wolves and pricked by

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Speaker 1: deadly spindles, so we learned to not trust our curiosity.

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Speaker 1: The beauty industry convinces us that our thighs for his skin, fingernails, lips, eyelashes,

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Speaker 1: like hair, and wrinkles are repulsive and must be covered

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Speaker 1: and manipulated, so we learned not to trust the bodies

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Speaker 1: we live in. Diet culture promises that controlling our appetite

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Speaker 1: is the key to our worthiness, so we learned not

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Speaker 1: to trust our own hunger. Politicians insist that our judgment

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Speaker 1: about our bodies and futures cannot be trusted, so our

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Speaker 1: own reproductive systems must be controlled by lawmakers we don't know.

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Speaker 1: In places we've never been, the legal system proves to

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Speaker 1: us again and again that even our own memories and

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Speaker 1: experiences will not be trusted. If twenty women come forward

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Speaker 1: and say he did it, and he says, no, I didn't,

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Speaker 1: they will believe him, while discounting and maligning as every

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Speaker 1: damn time and religion. Sweet Jesus, the lesson of Adam

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Speaker 1: and Eve. The first formative story I was told about

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Speaker 1: God and a woman was this. When a woman wants more,

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Speaker 1: she defies God, betrays her partner, curses her family, and

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Speaker 1: destroys the world. We weren't born distrusting and fearing ourselves.

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Speaker 1: This was part of our taming. We were taught to

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Speaker 1: believe that who we are in our natural state is

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Speaker 1: bad and dangerous. They convinced us to be afraid of ourselves,

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Speaker 1: so we do not honor our own bodies, curiosity, hunger, judgment, experience,

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Speaker 1: or ambition. Instead, we lock away our true selves. Women

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Speaker 1: who are best at this disappearing act ear in the

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Speaker 1: highest praise. She is so selfless. Can you imagine the

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Speaker 1: epitome of womanhood is to lose oneself completely. That is

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Speaker 1: the end goal of every patriarchal culture, because a very

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Speaker 1: effective way to control women is to convince women to

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Speaker 1: control themselves. So many good things from that, I know.

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Speaker 1: So a part of us is getting women to reject

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Speaker 1: all other emotions other than happiness, to not feel these

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Speaker 1: other things, or just squash them down and deny them completely.

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Speaker 1: And she tells the story of asking her children and

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Speaker 1: some of their friends if they were hungry, and witnessing

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Speaker 1: the boys looking inward and answering very quickly, yeah, I'm hungry,

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Speaker 1: while the girls paused, look around, look outward, and conducting

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Speaker 1: a silent poll before they answer and saying no, um, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And And there's so much of what she touches on

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Speaker 1: in that very long quote I really really relate to.

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Speaker 1: And that's actually with one of the reasons my therapist

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Speaker 1: recommended this book to me was she was saying that

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Speaker 1: I always I struggle with trust, and I know I've

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Speaker 1: talked about a lot before and trusting myself, and and

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Speaker 1: she's saying this book is a great example of how

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Speaker 1: so many women do struggle with that where you just

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Speaker 1: don't feel like you have a solid foundation to to

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Speaker 1: trust yourself to know what's what's good for you and

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Speaker 1: what's right for you. Yeah, I agree with that. I

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Speaker 1: think for me, Um, it took me a long time.

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Speaker 1: And I know I've told the story about the fact

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Speaker 1: that with the religious idea of what women should be

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Speaker 1: that I wasn't. I was never that woman, and I

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Speaker 1: always felt guilty and I always felt like I was

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Speaker 1: doing it wrong. And there was a part of me

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Speaker 1: that felt like I am not a good person because

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Speaker 1: I cannot fit this mold. And part of the reason

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Speaker 1: that I was destroyed from it and I walked away, um,

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Speaker 1: for lack of better terms, uh, was because I realized

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Speaker 1: those things that did not agree with religion and the

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Speaker 1: godly woman, where the things that kept me alive as

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Speaker 1: a kid like it helped me survive. These are the

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Speaker 1: tactics that I was able to use in order to

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Speaker 1: literally remain alive in orphanages and abusive situations where I

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Speaker 1: could have just fallen apart. And I was like this,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense. Why would God give me these

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Speaker 1: things to survive and then come back and say that's

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Speaker 1: not that's not what you need to be, that's not

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Speaker 1: who I wanted you to be. And it was just like, no,

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Speaker 1: I can't, I can't align with that. So for me

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Speaker 1: right out of college, it didn't make sense anymore, and

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Speaker 1: I had to trust the fact that this guilt was

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Speaker 1: not necessarily some because I felt guilty of. As we

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Speaker 1: talked about before in our previous mini, it's not something

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Speaker 1: should embrace because it helped me become the person that

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Speaker 1: I am to survive literally to survive. Yeah, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: recognizing those things. We're going to come back to religion

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Speaker 1: because Samantha and I both grew up in really religious

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Speaker 1: small towns um and the impact that that had, ah,

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Speaker 1: but also that happiness thing, that whole not feeling anything

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Speaker 1: other than happiness, that that's something that has shaped so

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Speaker 1: much of what I've done and not my happiness other

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Speaker 1: people's have. Right. Um, It's almost it's so hard for

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Speaker 1: me not to think of making other people happy first,

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Speaker 1: that's like my thing, right, and then I'll think about, oh,

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Speaker 1: I really didn't want to do that or whatever, and

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing leads into rape culture and and um,

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Speaker 1: women not knowing what they want when it comes to

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Speaker 1: relationships and sex and it being secondary to male pleasure.

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Speaker 1: So another thing that really stuck with me and this

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Speaker 1: memoir is a section where she Glenn Doyle realized that

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Speaker 1: despite consciously raising her her girls to be feminist, she

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Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily doing the same with her son in the

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Speaker 1: sense of she wasn't standing up for him and championing

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Speaker 1: his vulnerability and sensitivity um. Like she was for saying, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: my girls are strong, and you know if someone called

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Speaker 1: them bossy, she would kind of flip that and be like, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: she knows what she wants. She wasn't doing the same

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Speaker 1: thing for her son, for the more quote feminine are feminized,

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Speaker 1: feminine coded traits um. And then she saw the outcome

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Speaker 1: of that on the news in terms of mass shootings

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Speaker 1: and suicide and violence against women, and did just that

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Speaker 1: we need to be cutivating that in boys as well,

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Speaker 1: and she wrote about it, being an American boy is

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Speaker 1: a setup. We trained boys to believe that the way

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Speaker 1: to become a man is to objectify and conquer women,

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Speaker 1: value wealth and power above all and suppress any emotions

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Speaker 1: other than competitiveness and rage. Then we are stunned when

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Speaker 1: our boys become exactly what we have trained them to

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Speaker 1: be and f y. I currently I am researching for

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Speaker 1: our next Monday Many or an upcoming Monday Many about

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Speaker 1: gender differences in the pandemic. Right, we were talking about

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Speaker 1: the article where it actually says men are less likely

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Speaker 1: to wear because they feel like it's not masculine enough

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Speaker 1: wear masks. Yeah, and it's literally not only making this

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Speaker 1: whole thing lasts longer, it's killing them, right. It just

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like, wait, how did that become a

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Speaker 1: gender thing? I thought wearing masks was kind of cool.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand what's happening. Like, like, I remember my partner,

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Speaker 1: who is really big into Read Dead as well as cyberpunk,

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Speaker 1: got excited because it was like her right in public,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna wear like this, And I was like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: what what just happened? What just what just happened? Which

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Speaker 1: just happened? Which is absurd in such a way of

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Speaker 1: such an obvious statement of how misogynistic our culture is

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Speaker 1: that they would rather look quote unquote be masculine than

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Speaker 1: be alive. Ye, at the very top right, and by

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Speaker 1: the way, so as we're talking about it, she does

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Speaker 1: talk about sexism and racism as poison in the air

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Speaker 1: we breathe, as in, it's just inoculated into our lives,

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Speaker 1: no matter what is in the environment around us. And

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Speaker 1: she and the fact that the programmed poison of racism

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Speaker 1: was pumped into us may not be our fault, but

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Speaker 1: getting it out as sure as hell our responsibility, which

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Speaker 1: I think says a lot, and and recognizing our knee

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Speaker 1: jerk conditioning around successful women and then moving past it.

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Speaker 1: I know we're gonna talk a little more right about

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Speaker 1: racism in a bit where she talked specifically about being

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Speaker 1: called out or overtaking a discussion about black women in

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Speaker 1: the culture, and I think it's a really interesting point

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Speaker 1: of view, and she never really talks about whether or not, uh,

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Speaker 1: how it was resolved, but it is an interesting take

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Speaker 1: on the all the conversation and her thought process as

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Speaker 1: a white woman of white woman of prominence and what

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Speaker 1: to do and how to be a person who could

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Speaker 1: combat and be an ally. Yeah, I really loved her

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Speaker 1: take on that. And it's just poison in the air

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Speaker 1: we breathe, um, which is a really great way to

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Speaker 1: think of it and to hear her sort of working

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Speaker 1: through her own thoughts of how to be the best

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Speaker 1: ally and what does that look like? And and listening

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Speaker 1: to black women specifically about Okay, how can I best

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Speaker 1: be of help? Um was really I I appreciated her

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Speaker 1: honesty and her take on that. So we do have

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Speaker 1: a lot more to talk about with this book. But

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Speaker 1: first we're going to pause for a quick break for

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Speaker 1: where from respond there and we're back, Thank you sponsor,

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Speaker 1: And we're back with our discussion around religion because Glenn

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Speaker 1: and Doyle is I don't know if religious is the

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Speaker 1: right word anymore, but very spiritual. Yeah. Um. So she

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Speaker 1: talks a lot about finding God within yourself, not within

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Speaker 1: a religion or the church and the structures that come

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Speaker 1: with it. She addresses how you should ask, like what

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Speaker 1: is the power structure within this church? Who benefits from it?

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Speaker 1: Like who is giving you this message? And they might

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Speaker 1: not be bad intentioned? They might be, but plenty of

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Speaker 1: times they get intentioned, but you should just ask the question. Well,

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Speaker 1: she did make a statement when she and her husband

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Speaker 1: they went to charge because they found or they were

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Speaker 1: received newsletter or letters saying that they would have free childcare.

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Speaker 1: And so they went to this and as they were listening,

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Speaker 1: it was good, it was great. And then it moved

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Speaker 1: on to them talking about homosexuality as a sin and

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Speaker 1: abortion being a sin and in all these stances, and

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Speaker 1: she was very upset and and actually came to the

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Speaker 1: pastor and had a strong conversation with him, and it

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Speaker 1: just resolved with, you know, you do not understand what

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Speaker 1: God is wanting. He's like, you're leading on your own

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Speaker 1: understanding and not on God's, which is a Bible verse obviously.

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Speaker 1: And then she talks about how there are three options

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Speaker 1: here that you can remain here and be silent and

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Speaker 1: just fall into it. You can stay here, try to

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Speaker 1: fix it and fight against it, or you can choose

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Speaker 1: to go and find a healthier place for you. And

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Speaker 1: it was a really interesting take, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: exactly I remember UM. And we'renna talk a little more

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Speaker 1: about it, but I remember, as I'm reading this book

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Speaker 1: that was very heavily involved UM in religion. I was

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Speaker 1: so heavily involved. I was teaching children's ministry, I teaching

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Speaker 1: women's ministry, I was traveling around the Southeast UH teaching colleges.

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Speaker 1: I was leading women in all these ways because I

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Speaker 1: felt like, you know, this is the only way I

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Speaker 1: can be a leader, which is my call. And then

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Speaker 1: also growing up in the faith and believing in faith

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Speaker 1: um and needing that to feel like I could survive

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Speaker 1: and code because nothing in my past made sense, but

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Speaker 1: if I could have the ark of God has a

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Speaker 1: plan that I'm good m M. And then going into

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Speaker 1: that trying to figure out, well, how do I counter this,

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Speaker 1: this doesn't make sense? And then stay. I remember I

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Speaker 1: refused to leave that church even though I would disagree

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Speaker 1: with so many things, because I'm like I will be

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Speaker 1: I will not be the person who warns away. I

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Speaker 1: will fight to make change. I will be the change.

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Speaker 1: It didn't work. It didn't work. It was very frustrating,

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Speaker 1: and just again like being told I'm being too much,

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Speaker 1: I'm saying too much, I'm being too loud, and I'm

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Speaker 1: asking too many questions. And I remember having this breakaway

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Speaker 1: from religion that was so catastrophic to my heart that

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Speaker 1: it felt like a death had happened because I clung

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Speaker 1: to that so heavily, like this was a part of

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Speaker 1: my identity, and then then breaking that away from me

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Speaker 1: was such a painful, painful part of who I was.

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Speaker 1: Also I had started in the social work world, and

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Speaker 1: just the disgustingness of humanity. Half the time, it was

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Speaker 1: it was so cumbersome for me to to be able

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Speaker 1: to like, I can't juggle these correctly in my my

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Speaker 1: heart and my soul and when I want to do

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Speaker 1: for others whatever, And also I cannot adjust myself to

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Speaker 1: this alignment of what I'm supposed to be as a female,

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Speaker 1: as a woman, as a vagina carrying body, you know, um.

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Speaker 1: And then to try to have to deny others who

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Speaker 1: have struggled with their identity as well, and being told

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Speaker 1: you're wrong, that just it wasn't it just didn't fit.

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Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, oh my god, this is so

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Speaker 1: freaking painful to understand what I've leaned on for so

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Speaker 1: long has so many incorrect and really heartbreaking and um damaging,

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Speaker 1: damaging ideas for others around me who I would want

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Speaker 1: to be there for. So it was it was definitely

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Speaker 1: one of those moments of like, what do I do? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, and then walking away from it, and I

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Speaker 1: just reading Lennon's take, and and she is so positive

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Speaker 1: that she never really talked about the haters much. She

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Speaker 1: said that, Yes, she was definitely called out, called a heretic,

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Speaker 1: and she was all these things. Um, she was disavowed

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Speaker 1: by the church. Um, by a church. Uh so it

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Speaker 1: was very it resonated with me in that level of

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Speaker 1: like it wasn't that big. Obviously not people people didn't

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Speaker 1: see that as a thing. Um, because I didn't live

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Speaker 1: my I didn't have to change my life that much

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Speaker 1: other than this doesn't go inside anymore. This doesn't make sense, um,

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Speaker 1: but it I could just imagine the loss. And I

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Speaker 1: love that she's so positive, that she leaned into the

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Speaker 1: positivity and opening and the love from others. But like

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Speaker 1: for me, all I could think of was like that

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Speaker 1: loss of that part of myself. Yeah. Um, I was

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Speaker 1: really into religion as well until fourteen thirteen or fourteen,

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Speaker 1: and I would like donate, I volunteered, I donated my

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Speaker 1: allowance to the church. I like read the Bible several

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Speaker 1: times all the way through. Um. And then after I

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Speaker 1: had all these bad experiences, I I remember the day

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Speaker 1: and I just thought, nope, I don't believe this. And

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Speaker 1: so many of my friends growing I'm sure you can

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Speaker 1: relate in a religious town. So many of my friends

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Speaker 1: acted as if I had done the worst thing by

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Speaker 1: in their minds, like they can't imagine anything worse than

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Speaker 1: being an atheist. I had friends tell me, imagine you

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Speaker 1: love someone and you know they're going to run off

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Speaker 1: a cliff? Would you let them run off the live annie?

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Speaker 1: Would you let them come to me at work? I

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Speaker 1: was a professional, And they said that to me that,

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Speaker 1: but I was just like, I love your sentiment, thank

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Speaker 1: you for y I'm good. Yeah. And it was just

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Speaker 1: frustrating because you know, I do, I honestly do appreciate that,

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Speaker 1: especially if you really believe it. Um. But I don't

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Speaker 1: know that you needed to make me feel so terrible

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Speaker 1: about myself. Um. And my parents were very concerned, and

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Speaker 1: they were like, oh my god, please, we raised a

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Speaker 1: good child, you, of course you and I. So I

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Speaker 1: promised them I would research it because I said, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I ever would have believed this if

429
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: you hadn't raised me to believe it. And I was

430
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: that was just the type of kid I was. And

431
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 1: I researched all these other religions and I came back

432
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: to my parents and said, Nope, don't buy it. And

433
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,719
Speaker 1: they were like, Okay, well, we we will respect your decision, right,

434
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: But I just remember the fear I was legitimately afraid

435
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: of going to Hell, just I would lie awake thinking

436
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: about it. Well, that's a very um orthodox idea and

437
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 1: protestanly Christianity, especially in the US. Yeah, and I do

438
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: I want to say here, like, um my, my mom

439
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: is really religious, and I'm my heart is actually endeared

440
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: because she's running zoom sermons right now, and I like,

441
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: that's like the cutest thing. I love it. And I

442
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: don't really have I have no issue with people who

443
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: are religious at all, especially if it helps you and

444
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: you don't like use it to restrict other people's freedoms

445
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: and rights. I do, unfortunately have because I had such

446
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 1: a bad experience. Um, I have sort of a knee

447
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: jerk fear around it. And and Glenn and Doyle talks

448
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: about that with Abby. Yeah yeah, yeah, And I think

449
00:25:58,520 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 1: I'm the I'm the same way. I have a lot

450
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: of great friends and they're very close and we're still

451
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: very close. We are very religious, um, but they're good

452
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: people and they understand the difference between a church idea

453
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 1: and standpoint and a biblical idea and standpoint, and even

454
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: if they disagree, which is on all of them, they

455
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: still know to love. I think that was the biggest

456
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: part to me, is that you know, I can't be

457
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: a part of something that causes so much division and

458
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 1: hate that I that I just I can't imagine, especially

459
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: if those are the people. And if you look at

460
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: the Bible and like the actual writings of Jesus Christ,

461
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: if he existed, if he was as they said, the

462
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: total forgiveness, which oh my god, listeners, they probably turned

463
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: this all they're like, what the hell is happening? Um,

464
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: But it's a very pure and loving idea. I mean

465
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: exactly what it is is everyone is accepted. No one

466
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: can do this on their own, and they all need

467
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: something else because everybody is flawed. And that's okay, Yeah,

468
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: that's the gets portioned to that, and I think that's

469
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: where I struggle when they start breaking down to the

470
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: individuals and these are the practices, and this is how

471
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: I interpret this. We're gonna bring the Old Testament, which,

472
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: by the way, if we go with the biblical idea

473
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: that Jesus is the New Testament, that means he overshadows

474
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: the Old Testament like it literally no longer applies but

475
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: that's just a whole other view which I've definitely had

476
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: many conversations on. But the overall is too. I'm also

477
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,959
Speaker 1: very much against anyone oppressing someone who needs to believe

478
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 1: because they need that faith. Why in the hell I'm

479
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: not going to try to take someone's faith and heart

480
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: away from them. That's not my right either. And again

481
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 1: I may not agree, and I think I could call

482
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: myself spiritual. There's never I have believed for so long,

483
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: for so so long, of a greater power that it's

484
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: hard for me to let that go. That's one of

485
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 1: those things that are like it's ingrained in me. However,

486
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: do I believe that I'm not gonna get too into

487
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: my beliefs, but of my churchgoer who believes in the system,

488
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: who believes that everybody of pastor and all these people

489
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: are infallible and they are the ultimate conversation. No, no, absolutely,

490
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: not um. But I think it is a beautiful sentiment.

491
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: And when you look at every religion, when you look

492
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: at the core of what it is, there is goodness

493
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: there that has been painted, has been you searched by

494
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: like patriarchal Look at the story of Eve alone. I know,

495
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh so quote we wanted to read from

496
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: from the book. Maybe Eve was never meant to be

497
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 1: our warning. Maybe she was meant to be our model,

498
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: our own wanting eat the apple, let it burn. And

499
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: I loved that. I love that because I remember hearing

500
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: that story and thinking, oh, woman ruined this all for us.

501
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: Of course, she's the reason we are in so much pain. Yeah, yeah,

502
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: and I do. Before you move on, I also want

503
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: to touch on like I had friends who their parents,

504
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: like if they were going through something really um tougher,

505
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: struggling with depression, their parents would say pray right, which

506
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: is great, but I I've seen it time and time

507
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: again where they really needed help and they needed something

508
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: else like maybe prayer and um so, lots of thoughts.

509
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: There are lots of things right. And I agree with

510
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: you because I actually I was very depressed teenager as well,

511
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: and my parents were very religious and they have learned

512
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:33,239
Speaker 1: since then the benefits of therapy, but it took them

513
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: till I was an adult, and then apologizing to me

514
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: for not recognizing the trauma that I was going through

515
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: and not just saying Jesus will save you. Yeah, I

516
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: mean sure, maybe if you want to think that way,

517
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: but I definitely struggled and have been damaged because of that. Yeah, um.

518
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: And and also I didn't want to talk specifically. It's

519
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: a very like small portion in Nastra Abbey. Glennon and

520
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: Abbey go to a church and Uh, at one point

521
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: you can see, you know, she talked expresses about how

522
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: Abby is really nervous and doesn't want to really be there,

523
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: and she turns and talks to her and Um. At

524
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: one point, Glennon says, you know, when you left the church,

525
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: you thought you were only protecting you and away from

526
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: God the people of religion. But actually her take was

527
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: it was protecting the God in you when you left

528
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: that church, and that was so harmful. Um. And Abby says,

529
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: with the section I grew up in the Catholic Church.

530
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: The church taught me I was sin and an abomination,

531
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: and the way Glennon explained, God and church freed me

532
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: from those lies. And I thought that was such a beautiful,

533
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: beautiful sentiment. Yeah, I love that too. I love that

534
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: that take on. It's inside you and it was protecting you, yes, exactly. Um.

535
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: And of course we couldn't go without talking about love

536
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: and marriage, which is all throughout the book, as she

537
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: finds do you Love, she leaves old loves like it's

538
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: it's a beautiful thing. Um, and she missed to her

539
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: therapist that since her husband's infidelity, she doesn't want to

540
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: have sex with him, which by the way, she's not

541
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: the only one that makes a couple week since um

542
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: and her fury with him, and I love her description

543
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: about how angry she is just staring at him while

544
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: he's minding his own business, but she's douming um and

545
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: the therapists suggests she tried blow jobs because you know

546
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: they're less sentimate. Whoever this therapist is. I was like,

547
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: can we just denounce them as a therapist? That's what

548
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: my therapist says. She was like, oh, I hated that

549
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: that thing stuck out to me so badly. And we've

550
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: all heard that, I bet like most women have heard

551
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: this a similar like, you know what, you've gotta give

552
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: him something, right. And I will say, like even with

553
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: family members who are very religious, when they went to

554
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: counseling or even went to their you know, elders in

555
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: the church to get advice or get seek counseling that

556
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: way or whatever they were told, and it would be

557
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: the females would be in abusive or a relationship that

558
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: he was unfaithful and it was very unhappy. They were told,

559
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: but you know what Jesus demands of you, what God

560
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: demands that you work it out, because you know there's

561
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: two in this marriage. There must be something wrong with

562
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: both of you, and and you need to work it

563
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: out too, and you need to please your husband, and

564
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: you need to be there for your husband. And it's

565
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: just like oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, um And and so

566
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: she I really loved this her take on it too. Um.

567
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: From this quote, I quit buying the idea that a

568
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: successful marriage is one that lasts till death, even if

569
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: one or both spouses are dying inside it. I'd take

570
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: this about to myself. I'll not abandon myself, not ever again.

571
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,959
Speaker 1: Me and myself, we are till death do us part right.

572
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: And of course she didn't want this for her children

573
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: either and didn't want to pass that along. And and

574
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: we've talked about this a few times on our show,

575
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: and how we often talked with other people unhappy people

576
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: about relationships and why do they stay why do they

577
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: keep hanging on? Um? And often times they're a saying

578
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: that it's for their children, or being told that it's

579
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: because of their children they should stay um. And what

580
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: it's really teaching is teaching these kids this is the

581
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: Norman relationships. Whatever unhappy circumstance that I'm in, that's a relationship.

582
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: You just have to deal with it. And it's such

583
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: a sad state to see, especially when we are taking

584
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: it deeper talking about relationships with domestic violence, abuse, all

585
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: of that, and children seeing that as the norm and

586
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: as being okay, and even though they try to grow

587
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: out of it. I mean, honestly, Chris Brown is a

588
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: great example about how he came out about how he

589
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 1: came out about how he would never do that because

590
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: he's seeing that he grew up in that and then

591
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: just as you see, it was a cantalyst to his relationships.

592
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: That's all. How they all seem to be ending for

593
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: him or at least involved in to a point, this

594
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: volatile point of the relationship is what he knows. So

595
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: that's that's love, right, And even though he knows in

596
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: his mind, he knows up front that this is not true,

597
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: it's so ingrained in them that it's not that this

598
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: is this is why it is, and this is how

599
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: I have to deal it that that they can't let

600
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: that go. Almost Yeah, I mean it's the tools you

601
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: learn when you're growing up of how to deal with relationship,

602
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: and you can get new tools or you can get

603
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: you can change those tools. But it's very hard and

604
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: requires a lot of work. And also just to say,

605
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,919
Speaker 1: especially as someone I've never been in a um long

606
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: term marriage, barely the long term relationship, but I have

607
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: been a woman who like should have left and didn't leave.

608
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: So I don't want to dismiss like it is hard.

609
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: It absolutely is hard, um, But I I really appreciated

610
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: the way she reframed it of we should be thinking

611
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: about doing it for the kids in a different way. Right,

612
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: It's also part of the thing that is so hard.

613
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: It is because it's ingrained in us that it should

614
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: be that hard and it should be that difficult and

615
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: we shouldn't do it like our natural instinct does have

616
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: to fix this because this is partly my problem, right,

617
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: And that's a big part of this book, and I

618
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: know we're gonna touch on it at the end. Is

619
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: going back to that only feeling happiness. She's you've got

620
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: to feel everything, and it is gonna hurt. It's gonna suck,

621
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: but you can't protect your kids from everything, and you've

622
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: got to have that moment and go through it together

623
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: and then move on. Um. And she doesn't talk about

624
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: this too much in the book, but I did want

625
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: to bring up her ideas around sexuality because she is

626
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: a big proponent of fluidity and kind of like, I'm

627
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: not even sure we need these labels. Um. And so

628
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: here's a quote from that that I loved, And what

629
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: if I demand freedom not because I was born this

630
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 1: way and can't help it, but because I can do

631
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: whatever I choose to do with my love and my body.

632
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: I love. I love that it was praying with the

633
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: grandmother asking the question why is everybody gay? Yeah, She's like,

634
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just more freedom to express ourselves perhaps,

635
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just like that because I know a

636
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: lot of times people say that they mean it in

637
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: the best way of like, you can't help you shouldn't

638
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: be punished if you were born this way, but it

639
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't be punished anyway. If it's your body or choice,

640
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 1: your love, then it's yeah. Um. And that's also of course,

641
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: and everything she talks about humanity and just being human

642
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: and being yourself, um, and being humanist not hard because

643
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: you're doing it wrong. It's hard because you're doing it right. Uh.

644
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: And you will never change the fact that being human

645
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: is hard, so you must change the idea that it

646
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: was ever supposed to be easy. So that was a

647
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: quote with the Samantha spin. Guess what part was the

648
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: Samantha spin. I think you had to do it. Uh.

649
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: And a part of that whole idea is as she

650
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 1: writes about her sobriety and her kind of journey to

651
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: becoming sober, and as she did that, at first, she

652
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: felt like the problem was she didn't know how to

653
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: be human, and that's what drove her to drugs and alcohol.

654
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: And I think it was her first recovery meeting or

655
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: maybe your second, a woman told her, it's okay to

656
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: feel all of this stuff you're feeling. You're just becoming

657
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 1: human again. You're not doing life wrong, You're doing it right.

658
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 1: If there's any secret you're missing, it's that doing it right.

659
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: It's just really hard. Feeling all your feelings is hard,

660
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: but that's what they're for. Feelings are for feeling all

661
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: of them, even the hard ones. The secret is that

662
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: you're doing it right, and that doing it right hurt

663
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: sometimes right And when she talks about filling it all,

664
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: she also talks about grief um and it being a cocoon.

665
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: I love this when we um. When she's specifically talking

666
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: about her sister and her grief and loss of marriage,

667
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: she talks about the fact that she couldn't go with

668
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: her sister into that cocoon. This was her own and

669
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: I think this is a huge lesson. People don't understand

670
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 1: when we talk about grief. We want to fix things.

671
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: We don't have the answers, but we want to fix you.

672
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: We want to make you happy because we don't want

673
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 1: you to feel that way either or you know, we

674
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 1: don't want others to feel that way. Oftentimes we can't

675
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: be the ones that are the answers. We can't. We

676
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 1: wants to give the answers, but just letting people grieve

677
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: in its purity and its own timing. And I the

678
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: conclusion of that is, you know, her sister goes into

679
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: this grief, a coon comes out and like goes volunteers,

680
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: helps people, meets her new husband happily in love. Let's

681
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: be honest, that might not always happen, but find yourself.

682
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: Now you if you push those feelings away, has it

683
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: comes from experience, Eventually they will. They will find their

684
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: way out, and perhaps and not the way you want.

685
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 1: So feeling those feelings, which is hard and it sucks,

686
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: but knowing that you're not doing it wrong. And as

687
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: part of of this look into humanity and hard feelings

688
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: Glenn and Doyle, she's really open about her experiences with

689
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: mental illness and what that has meant for her and

690
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: what it does mean for her. Yeah, and with that,

691
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: if you have a diagnosis and there's a treatment planning

692
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 1: that includes medication and it works, take it. It's okay

693
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: to need help. But I love that that was her

694
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: whole list. Take your pills, no, seriously, if you've got

695
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: to take the lexapro, take it like I didn't like

696
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 1: a little checklist is great And it's even better when

697
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: she talks about when she was married to her husband.

698
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: He was and he was asked, what who would you

699
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: take on an island? He's like your mom, And he

700
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 1: was like, what else would you take? And he's like

701
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: her pills, but in a loving, supportive and it's it's

702
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: true like and by the way, for people with like

703
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: diagnosis and severe is bipolar or depression and all that

704
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 1: is not a fix oftentimes, and you do any medication

705
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 1: and it's okay, So don't stop using them. And she

706
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: even says, if you feel better, it's because of that,

707
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: so don't stop using them. Yeah, that was a very

708
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: I loved the little checklist take on it. Very good.

709
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: Another thing she talks about a lot a lot in

710
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: this book is motherhood, and some of the key takeaways

711
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: for us is um pushing children to become their own

712
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: heroes instead of being their heroes, giving them the tools

713
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: to be the heroes of their their life. Teaching children

714
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 1: to be critics of culture. That was a really great

715
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 1: scene where she asked her daughter, what do you notice

716
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: about all these magazines? What would you say? Women look like, thin, blonde, whatever?

717
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 1: And then she had her daughter look around the store

718
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: and say, what do women actually look like? Um? And

719
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: so just you know, being a critic of what they're seeing.

720
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 1: That whole idea of selflessness that we touched on earlier. Uh,

721
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: teaching our children to live instead of die. Um. This

722
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: is a quote. What a terrible burden for our children

723
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 1: to know that they are the reason their mothers stopped

724
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: living and how we we frame motherhood as the more

725
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: you martyr yourself for your children, the more you love them,

726
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: which is a damaging way to look at things. And

727
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 1: I connected with this so much. I feel I feel

728
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: guilty just for being born because I love my mom

729
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 1: so much and she's never ever, ever made me feel

730
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,439
Speaker 1: this way, but I feel like I made things harder

731
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: for her, right, and I took on that guilt. And

732
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 1: it's actually so extreme that I call it my nuclear thought.

733
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: If I think about it too much, I will cry,

734
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: like within ten seconds, how guilty I feel it just

735
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: for being born. So this is a big thing, and

736
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: I'm glad I wasn't the only one, right um to

737
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 1: have that sort of feeling, right, there's a lot to that.

738
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: I mean, she does talk about and I loved how

739
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: she kind of sinks in. I think that's her. That's

740
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: her saying, she sinks into it, stays in her spot, um.

741
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 1: And then that was her realization as she was looking

742
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: at herself in the mirror, like I had to do

743
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: this for my children and didn't have to ask, wait,

744
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: why am I doing? Why would my children want me

745
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: to do this for them? Why would they want to

746
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: sacrifice my happiness. It's not it's not my happiness, but

747
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: who I am because I'm scared to leave because of them.

748
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: That's such an awful, awful take, an awful thought in general.

749
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: And I know we have jokes about how mothers will say,

750
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: I brought you into the world and you're such a

751
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: disappointment to me. Whatever I mean, it is a joke.

752
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's true. We should live

753
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: our lives. That is an example about finding joy and

754
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: finding and hearing ourselves. Um. And speaking of that, she

755
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 1: talks about being brave again. We talked a little bit

756
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: about it before, stories about how specifically a story about

757
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: how we were incorrect when we teach our children what

758
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: bravery means. I do love that inter piercing story. Um,

759
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: it should be teaching them to advocate for themselves, trust

760
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: themselves in the face of peer pressure. That means bravery

761
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: changes depending on the individual, So going against the grain

762
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: instead of falling for it. And just because someone else

763
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: does something that that seems really brave doesn't mean that's

764
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,760
Speaker 1: brave for you. Yeah, bravery can look different for different people,

765
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: and I think we do think of it in one

766
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: specific way of oh, you did something and you were scared,

767
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 1: but doing something it could be not doing something anywhere scared. UM.

768
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: So I really I loved that too, and I appreciated this.

769
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: After a comment on a social post about how lucky

770
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 1: she and Abby were to find each other, Gonna and

771
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: Doyle responded, the braver we are, the luckier we get.

772
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: So there is an element of luck, but there's also

773
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,479
Speaker 1: an element of taking those risks and being not being brave,

774
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: but like working for it and recognizing those things in

775
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 1: you and and going for it, which I love. Um

776
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: And as she often says throughout the book, we can

777
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: do hard things. Yes. So we do have a little

778
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: bit more for your listeners, but first we have one

779
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 1: more quick break for word from our sponsor, and we're back.

780
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. And we're back with just a little

781
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: wrap up because we've covered a lot of ground. There's

782
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: a lot of wisdom nuggets in hare. There are there are,

783
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 1: And one of the big takeaways for me is I

784
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: often feel like I should have things figured out by

785
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 1: now because I am an adult woman, and I don't.

786
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 1: Some things I do, But I still feel like I'm

787
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,760
Speaker 1: going through all of this self discovery. Sometimes it shocks

788
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: even me how much I'm learning about myself still and

789
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: learning who you are truly and what you want truly

790
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: and what other people think you are and what they

791
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: want from you, and being able to separate those things out, um,

792
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: feeling these expectations and then deciding what expectations you want

793
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: for yourself and not what other people want to put

794
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 1: on you. And it's hard. It's hard, still hard, um,

795
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: And I mean I'm working through all all kinds of

796
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: these things, like eating disorder, sacrificing my happiness for others

797
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 1: and trying to trying to trust myself to know what

798
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:00,439
Speaker 1: is it that makes me happy and and figuring that out,

799
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: trusting myself in general. Um. And then yeah, that extreme

800
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: guilt for just existing and working through that. And it

801
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: is something that is work, and I am doing it,

802
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: I will say. And I do want to come back

803
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: and discuss this in a mini or something. But I

804
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 1: have found it interesting in times of quarantine to see

805
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: what habits that you were apparently doing for other people

806
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: and which ones you were doing for you, as in,

807
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,439
Speaker 1: what did you drop immediately when you knew or maybe

808
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: not immediately but over time when you knew, Okay, well,

809
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: I'm not around people so I can get rid of

810
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: this thing, which seems to indicate there's some part of

811
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: you that that was just doing that for other people. Yeah. Yeah,

812
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: um and then I often I've really struggled with my

813
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 1: world view and explaining it in a way that doesn't

814
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: freak people out. Um. And I It's one of the

815
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: reasons I connected so much with this book is she

816
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 1: talks about it, and it's this, I feel things so much,

817
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: I feel thinks so powerfully, and I feel like the

818
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: world and life is both horrendous and beautiful and it's

819
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: incredibly painful, it's incredibly joyous, and those things all exist.

820
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: But I've I've had friends when I explained this to them,

821
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 1: they're like, you see, I don't understand how to you

822
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: that is a good thing. It's not necessarily that it's

823
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:24,240
Speaker 1: a good thing, but you have to embrace those things

824
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: or at least recognize. So it's not going to be

825
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: all happy all the time. And if you think that's

826
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 1: what it's going to be, you are in for a letdown.

827
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: It's going to really suffer you when something really terrible happens.

828
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: And it well that I can unfortunately, Yeah, I think

829
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:44,919
Speaker 1: that's kind of the world that I lived in where

830
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: I was really jarred. Um. I grew up thinking that

831
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: my life was a fairy tale, and that meant that

832
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 1: I was supposed to let go of any of my

833
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: past trauma. And that means that with the fairy tale

834
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 1: is supposed to be nicely can fluted and everybody is

835
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: just happy instead of seeing the damages that roll around

836
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 1: in your bag of body. Um. But yeah, I also

837
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 1: did appreciate this boy. Like I said, it connected on

838
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: several different levels. And she does talk about being so

839
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 1: empathetic that it shuts her down for days. I've done

840
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: that as well, but she's such a positive spin on it.

841
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: I love her relationships she talks about. I love our

842
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: relationship with her ex husband as as bad as it

843
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: could have gone, but them as a family unit was beautiful.

844
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: Are talking about the new girlfriend was so relatable. It

845
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: is so flipping relatable in every way when it comes

846
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: to who you think you are and you think you're okay,

847
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: and you think you fixed yourself and then you're like,

848
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: oh my god, what is the new element? Um and

849
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 1: still realizing oh yeah, still a lot to learn. I

850
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: love how she would be like, I'm forty, now I'm

851
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 1: forty two now I'm forty four now, you know, talking

852
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: about her progression and in the growth. Um. I love

853
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: that she is so honest that she talks about the

854
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 1: divergence of her Christian life to the happy life of

855
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 1: what that looked like for her, and still carrying a

856
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: part of that faith in herself. I think it's a beautiful,

857
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: beautiful story. Yeah, that's her life. That's incredible, and she's

858
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 1: a she of course has a way with words anyway,

859
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think for me, just looking through all

860
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: of that, there's a lot of part of me that

861
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: I always kind of hold my breath when it comes

862
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: to white women. Sorry, but there's a part of me

863
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 1: that has grown up inundated with the idea that white

864
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: perspective is the right perspective and therefore my perspective will

865
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: always be different and wrong. So I was kind of

866
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: holding my breath when I was reading this book. I

867
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.

868
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: I don't know what to think. And then as she

869
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: unfolds her her conversation and the part of racism, like,

870
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 1: I really liked the way she did not have an

871
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: answer and she could not say she was right, and

872
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: she could not say she was wrong because this was

873
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 1: her perspective. And and um, I know that I've talked

874
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: to you and our counselor our therapist about the fact

875
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: that I have a hard time finding identity because it's

876
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 1: so ingrained in my life because I was raised with

877
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 1: a white family about how secondary I am. They never

878
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 1: made me feel that way, but when it comes to

879
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: the fact that they are very southern and fairly racist,

880
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: modern racist who believe that the right wing agenda with

881
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 1: immigration is the right way, says a lot about who

882
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: I am and takes on a lot of conversation and

883
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: thought process for me. So seeing her book and being

884
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: as honest as this was a nice sigh of relief. Um.

885
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: And I think it's very like beautiful in the way

886
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: she talks about opening up herselves. And I could not

887
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 1: imagine breaking away from faith to find happiness in the

888
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: way she did it, I guess because I definitely did it,

889
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 1: but in a different manner. And so it's it's it

890
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: was a really lovely take. Um. I loved the way

891
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 1: she talked about men and boys and about how she

892
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: talked about allowing him not to do dishes so he

893
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 1: can do extra things to say, this is your goals

894
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: to be the man and be a leader and not

895
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: have to help with that house type of thing. And

896
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: I was like, oh that she comes back to that,

897
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: and Abby was one of the proponents on teaching her

898
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: that and then challenging her kids. It was it was

899
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 1: really beautiful. I also loved her take on the fight

900
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 1: that we the generational teachings of raising children. Oh yeah them,

901
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,800
Speaker 1: you get the memos And it was fantastic because she

902
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, that's how why I could suck. Yeah. Yeah,

903
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: I mean all of it was just so even as

904
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: I'm not apparent, I can relate, like I understand, I've

905
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: seen that I was a nanny and I was like, yeah,

906
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: some of these kids suck. Kids are awesome. Yeah. I

907
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 1: found it really refreshing that somebody was communicating writing things

908
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: that I had felt but had not seen, um seen

909
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 1: in other media. And her whole idea of what did

910
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: she say, run towards the pain, like embrace the pain

911
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: because it's there for a reason, and you can do

912
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 1: hard things and you'll work through it and you'll survive

913
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: it and you'll come out the other side. Um. I

914
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 1: really appreciated. So Lennon who actually responded to our Instagram

915
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 1: post when we said we were doing her book clubs.

916
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 1: She said thank you to us. It was very nice.

917
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 1: I felt very special. Thank you Glennon for honesty and

918
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 1: sharing your beautiful words with us. Yes, and thank you

919
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: to all the listeners who suggested it. Yes. Oh we

920
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 1: I hope we can just do a whole episode where

921
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: maybe we'll do a mini you guys, send us your

922
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: thoughts and takes and what part spoke to you please,

923
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: and we want to put it up on a mini

924
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 1: Yes apps solutely, and you can send those takes to

925
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:49,840
Speaker 1: our email, which is Stuff Media mom Stuff at i

926
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 1: heeart media dot com. You can also find us on

927
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,760
Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff

928
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: I've Never Told You. Send in more book suggestions and

929
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,879
Speaker 1: movie suggestions and episodes suggests and all the suggestions. Thanks

930
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Andrew Howard, and thanks

931
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You. The

932
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio from more podcasts from iHeart Radio

933
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: is a dieheart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you

934
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows