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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello Whipsmarties,

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Speaker 1: Welcome back for another episode. This one is I know

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Speaker 1: I always say I'm excited, but I am so excited

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Speaker 1: to have today's guest here. She is a recording artist

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Speaker 1: that I love, but also a person that I adore

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Speaker 1: and that I am so inspired by. Today we are

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Speaker 1: joined by Maren Morris. She has broken boundaries, smashed records,

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Speaker 1: and affirmed herself as a dynamic vocalist, prolific songwriter, showstopping

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Speaker 1: performer all on her own terms. And she happens to

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Speaker 1: be an incredible person in all of those ways, as

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Speaker 1: herself in the world, as an activist, as a mom,

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Speaker 1: as someone who is not afraid to learn out loud.

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Speaker 1: And I am so excited that she's here to talk

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Speaker 1: about her career, her songwriting, her history, her family, and

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Speaker 1: her latest incredible EP called Intermission. In a recent interview,

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Speaker 1: Maren said that Intermission is the disolation of the strangest

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Speaker 1: year of my life. I decided to hit the scariest

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Speaker 1: reset I could have ever conceptualized, and there is no

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Speaker 1: looking back. The length one will go to to feel

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Speaker 1: joy again or sometimes desperate and terrifying as I'll get out,

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Speaker 1: but we deserve peace in this very short few trips

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Speaker 1: around the sun. Here's my heart Journey and a gamut

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Speaker 1: of emotions packed into five songs. I love this epiece

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Speaker 1: so much. I feel so represented, I feel so heard,

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Speaker 1: and I'm really excited to talk to Maren today about

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Speaker 1: her journey to write it. You know, her experience is

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Speaker 1: becoming an advocate, becoming a mother, going through a divorce,

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Speaker 1: coming out. She has really been living so out loud

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Speaker 1: and so courageously. She has been standing up for people

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Speaker 1: in every brilliant way that she can, from beating back

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Speaker 1: transphobia in the country community to standing up for black

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Speaker 1: female artists in that industry as well, and really for

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Speaker 1: reminding all of us that it's never too late. Let's

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Speaker 1: dive in with Maren Morris. Hi, honey, I am so

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Speaker 1: happy to see you. I can't believe that we get

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Speaker 1: to be together just after we were all in Chicago

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Speaker 1: for the DNC. How was it?

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Speaker 2: It was amazing. I mean it was such a palpable

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Speaker 2: positivity in the air in Chicago. I was only there

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Speaker 2: that one day that I was performing, but everyone was

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Speaker 2: just in high spirits, like even at the hotel. There

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Speaker 2: was a dude that was outside of our lobby and

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Speaker 2: he was like, Oh, I'm gonna just take my city

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Speaker 2: bike over to the DNC, And I was like, cool,

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Speaker 2: I love that for you. It was just you could

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Speaker 2: feel like an energy in the air, which is so

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Speaker 2: special to have witnessed like on the ground.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think for me, it was really interesting to

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Speaker 1: see that shift because we've been fighting against something awful

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Speaker 1: for so long, which is so important, you know, Like

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Speaker 1: that's the point, right that we want to leave this

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Speaker 1: world better than the one we inherited from our parents,

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Speaker 1: for our you know, children and eventual children and their children.

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Speaker 1: And I get why it's so important to stand up

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Speaker 1: against what's wrong. And it also feels really nice to

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Speaker 1: be standing up for what feels right, for joy and

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Speaker 1: honesty and you know, everything from people's rights to a

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Speaker 1: good economy, Like it's nice to have something to celebrate again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It really is just this injection of hope, and

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Speaker 2: I think that we were without it for so long,

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Speaker 2: so when you have just a tiny dose of it,

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Speaker 2: it feels like it feels like a drug almost. But

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Speaker 2: I think with all the building blocks of what this

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Speaker 2: campaign is, standing on and just the last you you know,

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Speaker 2: eight years of Trump stuff and me sort of like

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Speaker 2: existing within country music, Like my sort of public facing

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Speaker 2: career has been in this window of maga. So that's

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Speaker 2: just like an interesting thing that like my album came

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Speaker 2: out in twenty sixteen, yeah, my first album, and just

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Speaker 2: so the whole umbrella of it has sort of been

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Speaker 2: under this this cult and yeah, just kind of navigating

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Speaker 2: my way through that and then having my son four

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Speaker 2: years ago right at the beginning of COVID, just so

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Speaker 2: many things really crystallized for me as a mother. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: being at the convention, having never been to one for

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Speaker 2: it was really inspiring. Being able to listen to actual

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Speaker 2: policy and not just uh, you know, it's not just

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Speaker 2: celebrities like they're you know, are our congress people actually

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Speaker 2: telling us what their plan is? It's yeah. And then

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Speaker 2: also just what you said, like this this hopefulness and

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Speaker 2: like positivity of it not be about constant jabs at

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Speaker 2: the other side, really about bringing us together and divisive

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Speaker 2: like I'm all about a SoundBite or like a funny meme.

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Speaker 2: But and we got a lot of those moments from

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Speaker 2: the team, But I think ultimately I was left with

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Speaker 2: like a pang of hopefulness. So that's, yeah, that feels good.

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Speaker 1: Me too, And I think about it a lot, you know.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that's been helpful to me, because

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Speaker 1: there's obviously so much morality in policy, right, Like we're

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Speaker 1: either expanding people's access to rights, we're either protecting our communities,

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Speaker 1: or we're hurting people, we're demonizing people. Like that seems

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Speaker 1: so clear to me, and yet there are folks who

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Speaker 1: want to say, like, well, that's not how you have to,

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Speaker 1: you know, negotiate the future of a country. So then

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Speaker 1: I started going, okay, well, how am I going to

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Speaker 1: get you.

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Speaker 2: On the math?

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Speaker 1: Like how am I going to look at the numbers

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Speaker 1: and make this stuff make sense to you? If you

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Speaker 1: don't want to talk about morals, I'll talk to you

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Speaker 1: about math. I'll talk to you about the economy and

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Speaker 1: all the rest of it. And it's been really amazing

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Speaker 1: to see the literal studies over the last four years,

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Speaker 1: like the Biden Harris administration having to pull us out

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Speaker 1: of the absolute bungling of the pandemic by the former president,

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Speaker 1: the total nightmare of public health, you know, adding eight

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Speaker 1: trillion dollars to the deficit, like, it's crazy when you

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Speaker 1: think about the fact that twenty five percent of the

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Speaker 1: entire US deficit, like in the whole, in the hundreds

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Speaker 1: of years of our country, twenty five percent of that

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Speaker 1: was created under Trump. And to sit here and go oh,

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Speaker 1: since nineteen eighty six, Democrats have created fifty million jobs,

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Speaker 1: Republicans have created a million. Like all this math, we've

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Speaker 1: got the proof of it. And you've got these global

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Speaker 1: economists talking about how, you know, after the nightmare of

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Speaker 1: the supply chain and everything getting crazy when COVID started, Like,

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Speaker 1: not only have our policies here helped our country get

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Speaker 1: back to historic low inflation, but we've actually lowered inflation

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Speaker 1: around the world. And like so many people don't want

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Speaker 1: to talk about the math. It's boring. Like I used

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Speaker 1: to go blank in the face when it was happening

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Speaker 1: in front of me. But it makes me so proud

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Speaker 1: because I'm like, no, we get to campaign on civil

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Speaker 1: rights and joy and freedom and bringing everybody to the

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Speaker 1: table and not demonizing our neighbors, and we beat you

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Speaker 1: on the math. I love this.

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Speaker 2: I just love this. It's like we had.

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Speaker 1: Things to celebrate after four years of having to claw

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Speaker 1: our way back from that horrible, hateful disaster, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we were able to do it joyfully, and we were

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Speaker 1: able to do it, as you said, with policy. And

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Speaker 1: then like I got to see friends up on stage,

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Speaker 1: you know, from Kelly Robinson who's the president of the

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Speaker 1: HRCDU singing in that by the way, not political at all,

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Speaker 1: but that perfect white suit. It was so beautiful, girl.

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Speaker 1: I like I gagged in the best way and I

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Speaker 1: just was like, God, it's happy to be happy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think you know, Kamala's team is who

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Speaker 2: sort of chose the song that I was going to perform,

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Speaker 2: and so I was going to ask, okay, yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think it was down between like the middle, the bones,

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Speaker 2: or better than we found it, which I'm really glad

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Speaker 2: that they ended up wanting me to sing that one

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Speaker 2: because you know, just this moment is so precious and

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Speaker 2: I'm singing through the lens of the camera to my

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Speaker 2: son and I was, I was, you know, kind of

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Speaker 2: bring up like you know, it's it's politicized for sure,

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Speaker 2: but something that really brought a lot of people together

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Speaker 2: in Nashville, you know, which is a very progressive like

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Speaker 2: blue dot in a red state and coming from Texas

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Speaker 2: to Tennessee, being able to think of a lot of

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Speaker 2: this sort of maga or just you know, growing up

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Speaker 2: conservative too, like really being in a constant argument with

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Speaker 2: family members and like longtime friends and like truly trying

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Speaker 2: to understand each other. I lived right across the street

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Speaker 2: last year from the Covenant shooting in Nashville, Oh my goodness,

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Speaker 2: and having kind of been through like like Route ninety one,

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Speaker 2: like playing that festival, you know, six seven years ago,

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Speaker 2: the day before the shooting, and like it just really

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Speaker 2: racking the country music community for so long and still

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Speaker 2: so I have people in my meet and greets that

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Speaker 2: are survivors of that shooting. And then to last year

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Speaker 2: living across the street from Covenant and like having everything

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Speaker 2: shut down for two days, not being able to leave

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Speaker 2: our street, our home, like afraid of like can I

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Speaker 2: get my son home from school that day, Like he

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Speaker 2: didn't go to Covenant, but it was just like terrifying,

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Speaker 2: And then driving past the six crosses. Every something happened

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Speaker 2: like to the town obviously, but it brought women together.

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Speaker 2: It brought a lot of mothers together Tennessee Capital the

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Speaker 2: weeks following, and a lot of students that are now

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Speaker 2: you know of age of voting age, so just yeah,

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Speaker 2: being it is sort of coming together for me at

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Speaker 2: the DNC singing that song which I wrote in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 2: like after George Floyd's murder, Like it was just so

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Speaker 2: many emotions and I didn't know it like affect me

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Speaker 2: until we were live because you just you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: like women particularly, we go into like professional mode and

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Speaker 2: you're kind of impenetrable because you just have to like

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Speaker 2: get the job done. But yeah, it was during the

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Speaker 2: formants of Better Than We Found It at the DNC

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Speaker 2: where I just like, after I was done, I went

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Speaker 2: backstage and just like kind of fell apart a little

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Speaker 2: because it's not like just a concert. I mean, this

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Speaker 2: is really it matters and or this this event matters

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Speaker 2: and it matters. So yeah, I mean it was completely celebratory.

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Speaker 2: I was like gagging at Corey Booker's intro of me.

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Speaker 2: I was I was just like, this is insane, Like

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Speaker 2: I've never felt this sort of camaraderie in love, like

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Speaker 2: from you know, a political party, but it's like politics

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it's like they're it's

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Speaker 2: they're people, the people with families with lives with things

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Speaker 2: at stake, with wants and needs, and I think, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, not to be cliche, but like I do

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Speaker 2: think when I even talked to you know, my parents

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Speaker 2: or people like in the South that you know, I

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Speaker 2: don't know if they're going to continue voting for Trump,

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Speaker 2: but they have in the past at least twice. It's like,

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Speaker 2: I think there's something that feels like it's changing. And

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that's just them supporting me as

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Speaker 2: their daughter or if they truly were just like moved

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Speaker 2: to listen to speeches that were happening last week and

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Speaker 2: felt like maybe the dial moved. I don't know, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of interesting and fun to be like a

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Speaker 2: part of that conversation and not just.

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Speaker 3: You know, yapping about it totally well, and to show

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Speaker 3: up right like even when you talk about, you know,

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Speaker 3: when tragedy befell your community in Nashville last year, when

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Speaker 3: when the shooting happened in Las Vegas.

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Speaker 1: Like, I don't think it's coincidental that so often you

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Speaker 1: see us show up. You see women show up, you

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Speaker 1: see mothers show up, you see folks from marginalized communities

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Speaker 1: show up, you see students that are hopeful about their

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Speaker 1: future and also want to demand that they have a

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Speaker 1: better future, you know than the ones that have been

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Speaker 1: sort of sold out from under them by like greedy

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Speaker 1: folks in power. And I think there's no denying what

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Speaker 1: unity versus hate look like. And I think that was

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Speaker 1: sort of like the most profound part of it for

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Speaker 1: me last week was just you know, seeing everybody come together,

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Speaker 1: and you know, even folks have forged friendships with like

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Speaker 1: former Republicans who you know, ten years ago, you never

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Speaker 1: could have convinced me I'd be having dinner with or

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Speaker 1: regular phone calls with because I thought, oh, we're so opposed,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, no, no, we actually all really believe

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Speaker 1: in America and we love this country and and we

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Speaker 1: just believe that everybody has a place here. And what

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Speaker 1: an amazing thing to see folks stand up for country

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Speaker 1: over party. That that gives me hope? I mean, does

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Speaker 1: that make you hope that? Yeah, it is patriotic, and

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Speaker 1: like I wonder, you know, you talk about your son

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Speaker 1: and he's little, like, are those sort of the events

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Speaker 1: that make you feel really hopeful for the world we're

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Speaker 1: going to give to him?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think when I am looking at people that

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Speaker 2: are just really really well educated, well spoken, you can

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Speaker 2: kind of tell cut through the bullshit and know that

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Speaker 2: like you believe them. I feel like we have a

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Speaker 2: good meter for that. I think a lot of people do.

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Speaker 2: And I think obviously what you were saying about the data,

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Speaker 2: the math, that's all like the building blocks of proof,

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Speaker 2: but so much of it, you know, with this like

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Speaker 2: twenty four hour news cycle, I don't know if we're

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Speaker 2: supposed to consume this much. Yeah, politics, it kind of

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Speaker 2: fries your brain. And I don't like agree with what

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Speaker 2: I understand when people like just put their heads in

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Speaker 2: the sand. But it's like, well, whether you do that

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Speaker 2: or not, someone's voting against you. So I think, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's just something to put importance on no matter what,

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Speaker 2: because it's it is such a powerful thing, your vote.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I think just living is inherently political

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Speaker 2: at this point. Like I can't I can't just be

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Speaker 2: a woman in America and like just go live my

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Speaker 2: life and you know, pump money into the economy with

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Speaker 2: my voice and my my songs and just that be it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's so much more to me and my wants and

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Speaker 2: my my morals and the things that I want to

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Speaker 2: especially like not maybe especially because I don't want to

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Speaker 2: like dismiss people that don't have children, but like I

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Speaker 2: do think that there's something that like kicks in for

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Speaker 2: me having only sort of been worried about myself for

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Speaker 2: so long after like thirty years now, you know, living

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Speaker 2: in this this moment in time with a four year

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Speaker 2: old with a little boy, and as a mother thing

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Speaker 2: a boy, there are things that responsibilities on me that

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Speaker 2: come with that, and just constant antenna up of like

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Speaker 2: who's he in interacting with? Like what are these ways that

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Speaker 2: he's processing and downloading information? Like I don't know if

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Speaker 2: he learns it from school or like randos, but like

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Speaker 2: he's you know, they'll they'll start like it's just a

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Speaker 2: natural thing for kids to do, like to gender everything

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Speaker 2: and even that like that's a whole other conversation, but

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Speaker 2: just well, you know, girls girls can like Spider Man two,

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Speaker 2: Like I don't know who's telling you they can't, Like

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Speaker 2: boys can like mermaids, and girls can like Spiderman. That's

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Speaker 2: the cool thing about living is you can kind of

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Speaker 2: like everything or not like something, and so it's just

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Speaker 2: on a fundamental level, it's so interesting sort of like

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Speaker 2: reparenting this inner child with a child that's having to

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Speaker 2: live in like twenty twenty four, with like access to

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Speaker 2: the world, and every thing just feels like so heavy.

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Speaker 2: It's like I'm truly trying to armor him and also

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Speaker 2: prepare him.

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Speaker 1: Right. And now a word from our sponsors who make

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Speaker 1: this show possible. I find it really interesting because it's funny,

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Speaker 1: you know, just given the fact that last week was

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Speaker 1: such a big event, that was the first question that

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Speaker 1: came to mind for me. But normally I really like

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Speaker 1: to ask people because I sit down with someone, you know,

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Speaker 1: in an amazing moment in their career, like you're having.

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Speaker 1: You know, you you had such an incredible, you know,

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Speaker 1: rise in the music industry, and you know, I've been

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Speaker 1: such a fan of yours for so long, and even

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Speaker 1: to see how you've been navigating these recent years, like

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Speaker 1: everybody kind of meets you and knows you as this adult,

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Speaker 1: this performer, this woman. And I'm always really curious for

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Speaker 1: people if from where you sit in your life, you

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Speaker 1: can kind of see the through line to who you

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Speaker 1: were as a young person when you were like eight

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Speaker 1: or nine years old, and it's interesting to think about

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Speaker 1: asking you about your childhood and how it led you

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Speaker 1: here as you're talking about your own child, Like, I

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Speaker 1: wonder if if when you look back at your young

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Speaker 1: self in a way, you also kind of horseshoe around

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Speaker 1: and look at your son.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really fun exercise to do that, and

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Speaker 2: also it can be really triggering because yeah, you'll have

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Speaker 2: a moment of oh my god, I sounded like my

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Speaker 2: mother just now, and like you know, you'll have the

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Speaker 2: rest of your life as a parent. But yeah, and

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Speaker 2: they're just things that you know, I can as an

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Speaker 2: adult now verbalized to him and articulate in a way

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Speaker 2: that maybe my parents couldn't or their parents couldn't. And

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Speaker 2: we just and that's just you know, the nature of life,

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Speaker 2: and you know, technology and knowledge is we know more now.

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Speaker 2: We have more resources now at our fingertips than our

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Speaker 2: parents and their parents did. So a lot of that

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Speaker 2: is just that part of the tools there, But then

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Speaker 2: also the sort of network of mothers and parents and

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Speaker 2: therapists and child psychologists and I'm just like all over

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Speaker 2: those algorithms on TikTok. It's just inner child work and

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Speaker 2: this and that. So there's a lot that I just

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Speaker 2: even gained from like a sixty second TikTok sometimes, so

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Speaker 2: totally yeah, and like the sort of therapy part of

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Speaker 2: society now where we can just truly destigmatize needing help

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Speaker 2: for your mind. I think the facet I went through

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Speaker 2: was like postpartum depression. So that was like a huge

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Speaker 2: fork in the road for me of like having to

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Speaker 2: be you know, figure out some stuff that I hadn't

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Speaker 2: uh before, and uh there was a lot more at

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Speaker 2: stake because it's not just me I have to worry

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Speaker 2: about anymore. So yeah, yeah, I think just like it's

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Speaker 2: not fun work. It's it's really like looking under the

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Speaker 2: hood and revealing things about yourself that you know, your

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Speaker 2: your maybe your mind was protecting you from for decades

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Speaker 2: and then you like step on the landmine and it

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Speaker 2: blows your ego up. You know, yeah, totally, but it's good.

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Speaker 2: It's good. It's all. It's all like really intentionally done.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I am a lot lighter and I

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Speaker 2: had to change a lot of like very huge things

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Speaker 2: in my life to get to this day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's beautiful though, you know, I it's really interesting

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Speaker 1: because I think about it, especially when you've had these

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Speaker 1: sort of big transformative journeys, and you have to do

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Speaker 1: it in public. So many people get to just figure

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Speaker 1: out their lives and do it like just with their

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Speaker 1: best friends. They don't have to do it with the

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Speaker 1: whole world watching. And I think one of the things

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Speaker 1: that's been the most helpful as a mantra that I've

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Speaker 1: given myself in the last eighteen months two years, really

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Speaker 1: is it's okay that you didn't know. There are bridges

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Speaker 1: you can only cross when you come to them. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can think about your life, you can plan your life,

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Speaker 1: you can think that you know where things are going,

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Speaker 1: and then you get to that fork in the road

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Speaker 1: and you realize, oh, I just wasn't prepared for this.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know this would be what would be ahead

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Speaker 1: of me. With all my best intentions, with all my

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Speaker 1: planning and my coaching and my whatever, I didn't know

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Speaker 1: this part. And I think that that is something that's

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Speaker 1: so beautiful, and it's something I've really appreiated in particular

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Speaker 1: about your new EP, about the way you've put intermission

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Speaker 1: out in the world and the way you've been willing

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Speaker 1: to talk to your audience about it, because you've you've

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Speaker 1: really been upfront about the fact that sometimes in order

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Speaker 1: to keep going, in order to keep living your life,

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Speaker 1: you have to take it down to the studs and

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Speaker 1: start over. And it's not easy to do that. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people are afraid. A lot of people don't

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Speaker 1: feel like they have the option or the power. And

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who stay because they can't

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Speaker 1: bear the optics of leaving or choosing themselves. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I as someone who's you know, also recently

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Speaker 1: been through it, I was just like, we're out here, girl, Like,

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Speaker 1: we're out here doing this. Was it like incredibly cathartic

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Speaker 1: to write the new record? Was it necessary and hard?

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Speaker 1: Was it kind of all all of the above? I

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Speaker 1: guess maybe it's multiple choice answer d everything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think, well, it depends on the song that

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Speaker 2: you're for. Two of these five, I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: this is how Woman Leaves, which is the last song

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Speaker 2: on the EP, was probably I think I was still

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Speaker 2: in a state of like like, I don't remember I

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Speaker 2: don't remember writing that. Wow. I think I was in

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Speaker 2: such a deep state of like shock, and again I

386
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Speaker 2: think my mind was like protecting me from like the

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Speaker 2: pain and trauma of that moment of my life. I

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Speaker 2: remember like I remember editing it, but the actual creation

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Speaker 2: of the song the day of no. I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: it's strange what your your brain will do to well

391
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Speaker 2: have full access to your verbal skills, but as far

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Speaker 2: as memories, it didn't want to log that one. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think Also it's I mean not to get into

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Speaker 2: like crazy specifics because it's like, you know, I still

395
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Speaker 2: have so much love for my ex and we are doing,

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Speaker 2: I think, like a great job at co parenting, and

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Speaker 2: this is all just new for us. But for me,

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Speaker 2: I became I'm a different person now than I was

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Speaker 2: five years ago. And I guess that's the part of

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Speaker 2: like relationships and marriage that it's sort of like, well duh,

401
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Speaker 2: like you grow with the person. But I can't like

402
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Speaker 2: fault someone for I don't know, being shocked or disappoin pointed

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Speaker 2: that the person that they married is just like completely

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Speaker 2: different now. I mean, I can't speak for everyone, but

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Speaker 2: for myself, like COVID like really changed me. I've been

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Speaker 2: performing since I was ten, so unfortunately a lot of

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Speaker 2: my and maybe you can like relate to this just

408
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Speaker 2: being sort of like a young actress and like being

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Speaker 2: in this guy like I wasn't in the public eye

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Speaker 2: that much, but like I was performing and being you know,

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Speaker 2: viewed as a performer since I was Yeah, like these

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Speaker 2: really formative years of like building your your you know,

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Speaker 2: your identity. So my identity like unfortunately, and I've learned

414
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Speaker 2: this in therapy, was like extremely enmeshed with praise, just

415
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Speaker 2: outside factors, completely removed from your own compass and like

416
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Speaker 2: self uh just needing to be in control, needing to

417
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Speaker 2: fall apart privately, but on the stage outward facing is perfection.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of complexes built up at an early age.

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Speaker 2: Something happened like in COVID, where I had been in

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Speaker 2: this role of like success, like all my hard work,

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Speaker 2: all my parents' support like for me as an artist

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Speaker 2: as a kid, like finally culminated into this like successful

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Speaker 2: few years of you know, having crossover hits and like

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Speaker 2: number ones and Grammy and this and that, Like that

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Speaker 2: was great. But COVID, like everything stopped for everyone. I

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Speaker 2: was nine months pregnant, so just everything in my body

427
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Speaker 2: was different, and I felt like I didn't feel or

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Speaker 2: look like myself tried to give birth, like the same

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Speaker 2: week the world's shutting down. They're like maybe threatening that

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Speaker 2: I can't even have my spouse with me when I

431
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: give birth, Like I mean, luckily that was not the case,

432
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 2: but well, it was a complete mind for me. And

433
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 2: then you know, having like this thing, all my tour

434
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 2: get canceled that year, and just of course, like postpartum

435
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 2: happened just circumstantially, but also the hormone part of it,

436
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 2: it's like a really hard thing to self diagnose. And

437
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 2: so I was just so lost for so long. And

438
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: I finally, like you know, with the help of like

439
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 2: my friends and family, got on like antidepressants and you know,

440
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 2: was still doing like phone therapy through COVID and then

441
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 2: just trying to like become a parent, you know, and

442
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: take care of a newborn. And there was just no

443
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 2: room left for like me, Yeah, and I couldn't really

444
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 2: right via zoom. It was just really hard for me

445
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 2: to connect with friends, like and try to write songs

446
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: through that. Yeah.

447
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: That energy that you get creating with people is not

448
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 1: the same through a screen.

449
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. So that was just like completely doa for me.

450
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 2: And then just not being able to tour for the

451
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 2: foreseeable future, like my I just felt like extremely futile,

452
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 2: and I you know, there was a there was an

453
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 2: interview you were doing on this podcast. I can't remember

454
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 2: with who, but you were like, the burden is like

455
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 2: sometimes well most of the time on the woman's work,

456
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 2: you know, work you have to do mm hmmm. And

457
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 2: this is my own like issue. But I went through

458
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 2: like so many phases of trying to figure myself out.

459
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 2: Through those like years, it was like, Okay, I'm gonna

460
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 2: get an into deepressants, I'm gonna continue therapy, I'm gonna

461
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: start playing tennis, I'm gonna do hot yoga, I'm gonna

462
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 2: do this guided shroom trip. I'm going to go to

463
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 2: London for like six weeks once it's open to go

464
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 2: do so just to like get out of the States

465
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: for a second and figure out what the hell is

466
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 2: going on in my head. There's just like so many

467
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 2: layers happening of change, yeah, and like desperation to figure

468
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 2: out what the hell was going on with me. And meanwhile,

469
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 2: like you're taking care of like a now two year old, Wow,

470
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 2: you're having to like like you are not you're so

471
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 2: back burnered on yourself, like yeah, or like just doing

472
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 2: anything good for you because everything is like it's not

473
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 2: worthwhile if it's not difficult, Like work.

474
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: And young kids really put you in survival mode too.

475
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like when things start to deteriorate, like in

476
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 2: a marriage or even in like a career. For me,

477
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 2: I was having to like really address some biases going

478
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: on in my genre of music. Like there were a

479
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,719
Speaker 2: lot of things happening all at once, and it felt like, yeah,

480
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 2: I you have this guilt because you're like, I'm bringing

481
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: this all on myself. Everyone else is trying to like

482
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: tell me to chill out, and but it was like

483
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: I had just woken up and I couldn't go back

484
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 2: to sleep.

485
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now from our sponsors, and when your whole

486
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: self is calling to you and you actually have to

487
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: hear it. I do think there's a really profound thing.

488
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: I mean the way that like even just my chest

489
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: feels when you're telling this story, My insides are like yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,

490
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: Because I think when you grow up, particularly in any

491
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: arena that encourages you to be a performer, you are

492
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: taught to perform as a good girl, and you're raised

493
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: in a society that wants girls to be pretty and

494
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: quiet and sweet and take care of everyone else all

495
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: the time. And you know, for me, I really had

496
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: to start to examine the things that make me such

497
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: a good coworker and such a good friend can be

498
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: really detrimental to me and my one of one personal

499
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: life because I put everybody else first. I check in

500
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: with every department head in the morning. When I get

501
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: to set, I make sure everybody's doing well, they have

502
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: what they need. I will get to the end of

503
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: a seventeen hour day at work and not have asked

504
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: myself what I need. And when you learn to do

505
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: that for your whole life, and then the world shuts down.

506
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: And then whether you're going through a trauma like having

507
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: a new baby or trauma bonding as I know I

508
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: think I did, you can build. I mean, at least

509
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: for me, I'll personalize it. I don't want to generalize.

510
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: But I realized I could build on the anxiety and

511
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: on the small kernels of possibility. I could make those

512
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: things into a whole meal. And I love to commit.

513
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: I love to show up. It's like, well, if we're

514
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: going to do this project, let's do it one hundred percent.

515
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: If we're going to take on this task, I want

516
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: to learn the morals, the math, the national experience. I

517
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: want to glean the most information so I can do

518
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: things to the best of my ability. And the AHA

519
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: moment for me was not having a baby. It was

520
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: seven months of a fertility process where I went, oh,

521
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: I've just never crossed this bridge before, and this is

522
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: not a bridge I agreed to cross alone, and this

523
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: is not what I want the rest of my life

524
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: to look like. And everyone will say, what are you doing.

525
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: You've just made this decision. It's only been a year,

526
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: you know, that's not a long time. But the way

527
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: I think about life is, yeah, life might be short,

528
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: but life is also way too and long to spend

529
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: it miserable. And when your body is telling you you've

530
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: made your best efforts, you've literally tried everything, You've left

531
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: no stone unturned, you've put it all on the table,

532
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: and you're just not in the right place. Like if

533
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: you're not in the right room, you got to leave.

534
00:32:55,240 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: And I think it's a very disorienting thing to realize

535
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: as a performer that you you can't perform your life

536
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: in the quiet moments. And so when your brain, body,

537
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: soul are calling to you to see that there is

538
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: no more you can do, that it has to change.

539
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,479
Speaker 1: Like that's a that is a wild journey and for

540
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: you to do that, Like I'm just thinking about how

541
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: hard it was for me, Like regardless of what it

542
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: might look like to the world, it was so hard

543
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:39,959
Speaker 1: and so painful and so exhausting. And I'm like, I

544
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: didn't I didn't have to do it while also trying

545
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: to keep a tiny human alive. So like, hats off

546
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: to you, my friend. That is that is a journey

547
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: and you you left no stone unturned.

548
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you can't, Like there just is no blind

549
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: spot anymore when you like take everything off your eyes.

550
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, the people that don't get

551
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: it don't have to, Like they're not looking at the

552
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 2: iceberg under the surface of the water. They're looking at

553
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 2: what's And so I think, like also our intuition is

554
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 2: like nine times out of ten, correct. I think that

555
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 2: there's and it goes back to the performer thing. But

556
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 2: the sort of gratitude and like empathy and all these

557
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 2: things that you kind of are expected to have. There's

558
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:35,240
Speaker 2: also like the threat of loyalty. I have that deeply

559
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: because I think that you know, it's a word, and

560
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 2: I do think there's such a concept of loyalty is

561
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 2: like truly put in the work with each other. But

562
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 2: it has to be fifty to fifty. And I'm not

563
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 2: just talking about you know, romantic relationships. I'm talking about

564
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: like employees. I have sometimes, even most recently, remained loyal

565
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 2: to a fault to people that like work for or

566
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 2: me that don't best interest like maybe they just everyone

567
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 2: has their own interests. That's the thing is, like you

568
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: could be the best boss in the world you and

569
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 2: this person has a completely like different, like set of

570
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 2: standards for themselves and like priorities. So that learned with

571
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 2: like my divorce and sort of like career separation has

572
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 2: been that this is not like, not everything is your

573
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 2: issue to fix.

574
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not all your cross to bear.

575
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's really hard to unlearn when you've been

576
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 2: like in control. Well yeah, it's a delusion of control

577
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 2: or illusion and delusion of control. Yeah totally. When someone

578
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 2: like hurts you, yeah, so deep, because you're not just

579
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: thinking about how they hurt you, You're thinking about what

580
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 2: did I do to hurt them? I cause this that

581
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 2: is such a like common thing women are dealing with

582
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 2: on the daily. So when you are selfish or self protecting,

583
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 2: which I have had to become so in the last

584
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 2: like year and a half, like truly not cut off.

585
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 2: Maybe it could be red as cold or a belief,

586
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:28,720
Speaker 2: but I am I just don't give every everyone my everything. Now. Yeah,

587
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 2: I do that for my close friends. I do that

588
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 2: from my son, I do that for myself, my family,

589
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 2: but like everyone else, I I can't do that with

590
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 2: everyone that I work with, work beside. I've just learned that.

591
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: It's I don't think I'm closing down. I think I'm

592
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 2: just like I'm protecting myself and not like I guess,

593
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 2: like lowering my expectations of everyone you know around me,

594
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 2: Like I hold the people close to me to a

595
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,240
Speaker 2: high standard, but like everyone else, I'm like, you're gonna

596
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 2: get the like seventy percent version of me. Yeah, because

597
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 2: I have to protect my energy and my heart and

598
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: I am exhausted when I'm giving everyone my one hundred.

599
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really really hard. I mean, god, you know,

600
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: in the best way, but I felt that way when

601
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: I got home, even from Chicago. It's like every person

602
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: I saw, I was excited to see. Everyone has a

603
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: great mission, everyone has incredible purpose, and I would like

604
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: I got back here and I just crashed for the

605
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: weekend and I was like, Oh, I forget how much

606
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: showing up with my full self. Yes, it's amazing, but

607
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: it can be really draining. And to start to learn,

608
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: like you said, when you've kind of pulled all the

609
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: things out from over your eyes, you've taken off all

610
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: the blinders. I think part of the natural response to

611
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: that and self growth is that you start to also

612
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: have to learn boundaries. And it was like for me,

613
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: I went, Okay, I'm going to come home and be

614
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: with my partner and turn my phone off for the weekend,

615
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: and that's going to really be important to me, Like

616
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: I need to sleep and go in, I need to

617
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: hibernate like a bear for three days and then I'll,

618
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: you know, I'll get back into it. And it's interesting

619
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: because that like metamorphosis, that shift that I think so

620
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: many people went through in various ways, especially during lockdown,

621
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: when I think about how much you had going on

622
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: all at the same time, you know, with a new baby,

623
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: with figuring out that perhaps what you'd built your life

624
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: into wasn't really for you. You know. Also, as you

625
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: mentioned your intense feelings, where the morals were in response

626
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: to things happening in twenty twenty, like you know, I

627
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: think about the fact that the song you performed at

628
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: the DNC you wrote, as you said, in response to

629
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: the killing of George Floyd. I think about how you know,

630
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: when I met you in early twenty twenty three, I

631
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: was like, first of all, my friends and I are

632
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: obsessed with your song. We send each other videos singing

633
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: the middle, like literally every single time it comes on

634
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: the radio. But aside from the joy, like thank you

635
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: for speaking up in your space in country music in

636
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: defense of women like Mickey, you know, in support of

637
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: black female country singers, like you know, you pushed back

638
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: on Morgan Wallen for the horrifically racist shit that he said, Like,

639
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: I know that couldn't have been easy for you in

640
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: this world as you mentioned that you were raised in,

641
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: you know, from Texas to Tennessee. The conservativism what country

642
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: music often gets, you know, sort of used for or

643
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 1: like the things people sweep under the rug in that genre.

644
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: Like you were learning how to stand up for yourself.

645
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 1: It seems as an individual to listen to yourself, to

646
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: set boundaries for yourself, and you were like pushing back

647
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: on a whole industry and saying this is fucked up.

648
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: We're not supposed to be doing this, like don't we

649
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:02,720
Speaker 1: know better by now? And I guess my question listening

650
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: to you talk about the lessons and the kind of

651
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: realizations and how all these things call less at the

652
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: same time, do you think some of the personal AHAs

653
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: came from your clarity on seeing the world around you

654
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: or did you see the world around you more clearly

655
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: because you were seeing yourself more clearly as you began

656
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: to deconstruct, like I call it the mythology of the

657
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: good girl.

658
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 3: You know?

659
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 1: Or were they maybe just happening in tandem like a seesaw.

660
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 2: That's such a great question. I think it was in tandem,

661
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 2: because which is a lot. I wish one. It's a lot.

662
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: I wish one had come before the other because it

663
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 2: was a pard of maybe process. But I think it

664
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 2: was just you know, life' it's just happening. It's dogtailing,

665
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 2: it's it's threading, it's ribboning, and you're just there as

666
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 2: a passenger sometimes And I think, Yeah, being able to

667
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 2: articulate that is still tough for me because I just

668
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:08,919
Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, not I hate really like using

669
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 2: this word, but that is how I feel. It's just

670
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 2: like traumatized, and I think, you know that's that's part

671
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 2: of it. But I truly do think like I had

672
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 2: to scare the shit out of myself. I had to,

673
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 2: like what you mentioned earlier, take it down to the studs,

674
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 2: reevaluate most of the relationships in my life. And what

675
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 2: I'm left with, it's like it's leaned out in the

676
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 2: best way, And I think kind of amazing what you're

677
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 2: you're left with when you truly show people like who

678
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 2: you are and they show you who they are, and

679
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 2: all you can do is just like without regret, just

680
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 2: be like, Okay, I want everyone to be happy. I

681
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 2: want to have people first and foremost, Like I would

682
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 2: like to be happy, because if I'm not, like, how

683
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 2: am I going to show up for everyone else in

684
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 2: my life the way I'm supposed to? And I do

685
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 2: think it just took a lot of like years in

686
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 2: work to realize that I don't have to be just

687
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 2: in everything, like I can care and I can do

688
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 2: my part on it and speak up absolutely like that's

689
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 2: absolutely part of it. I knew showing up at the

690
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 2: DNC was a statement and going to like lose followers fans.

691
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,879
Speaker 2: I'm surprised they hadn't been lost before. I think most

692
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 2: people have known where I've stood, but I knew who

693
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 2: I was singing to that night. Yes, yeah, watching, but

694
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: I was singing to my son. That's it. Yeah, I

695
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 2: can say, you know, without feeling guilt or like narcissism,

696
00:42:55,480 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 2: that I am doing everything within my power to leave

697
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 2: some version of this world better for him. Can't. I

698
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 2: can't take everyone's responsibility on. I can only kind of

699
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 2: focus on myself the environments that he's in that I do,

700
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 2: you know, pay attention to and have control over. I mean,

701
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 2: but other than that, he's gonna he's going to live

702
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 2: like a life where I'm just like the lighthouse and

703
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 2: I'm not like going to be there all the time,

704
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 2: every single day moment with him. So even that is

705
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 2: like losing control, and that's a big thing with myself too.

706
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: Is just that's Yeah, that was what was revealed, I

707
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 2: guess in my my shroom trip was like it was

708
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 2: a nightmare, but it was like, yeah, you're not in control.

709
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:49,399
Speaker 2: We're going to strip everything down ego death Like you

710
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 2: weren't in control, never were, never will be. And that's

711
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 2: terrifying when you were like a child performer and that

712
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 2: your sense of worth for so long. But as you

713
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 2: mentioned before, it's like you learn really quick in these

714
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 2: like sort of trauma moments as an adult, like who

715
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 2: you are, and yeah, it doesn't matter who you are

716
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: to people, like who you are to yourself, how you

717
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 2: show up as a good friend, as a boss, as

718
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 2: a daughter, this and that, like every version of yourself.

719
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 2: I do think I know who that person is. And I,

720
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 2: of course, you know, never want to like rock the

721
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 2: boat intentionally, but I just know, like now with my

722
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 2: family and you know, friends that you know sort of

723
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 2: fell by the wayside, became like more superficial. They're not

724
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 2: like the core people in my life anymore totally. I

725
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 2: think they saw who I was and I've seen who

726
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 2: they are, and it's not a bad thing. I think

727
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,720
Speaker 2: it's just like we don't need to continue growing together

728
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: in the same way.

729
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from our wife wonderful sponsors. Well,

730
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: I think about it with you know, coworkers, friends, even

731
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: relationships like I actually wrote an article about this a

732
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 1: long time ago out I think it's really important that

733
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 1: we start allowing ourselves to look at reasons, seasons and lifetimes,

734
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 1: and sometimes you mistake a season for a lifetime. Sometimes

735
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: you have to come to terms with the fact that

736
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: you had a friend or a coworker for a season.

737
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: And that's great. But like people evolve, they move past,

738
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:48,399
Speaker 1: they outgrow. Sometimes we mistakenly give, you know, more worth

739
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,439
Speaker 1: or weight to something than it was meant to have.

740
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: And I think, again, especially for the performing daughter, that

741
00:45:55,080 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: can be really typical. But I do think there's there

742
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: is something really special about learning to love the world

743
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: when you're learning to love yourself, because you realize where

744
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: that if something is incongruous, you know it, and you go,

745
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: wait a second. If I can see that that's wrong

746
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: for my community, how can I tolerate it for myself?

747
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,720
Speaker 1: And vice versa? Like if I would never let someone

748
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: speak about my friend like this in front of my face,

749
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: how am I going to let someone in my community

750
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: speak about someone who looks like my friend that way,

751
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: you know, And I know that that comes with a lot,

752
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: you know, certainly for me calling out you know what

753
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: it was domestic terrorism on January sixth, the like, the

754
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: increase an influx of death threats was so scary for me,

755
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: And I know you experienced that after you spoke out

756
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: about you know what Morgan Wallin had said, and I

757
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: think about, you know, how I react differently to that

758
00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 1: sort of experience in the world now that you know

759
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: the world surrounding me includes young children, and I know

760
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: you went through that as a young mom, Like, how

761
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: how do you process that? How do you handle that

762
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,720
Speaker 1: saying we shouldn't be cruel to other people makes people

763
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 1: be so cruel to you? Like did it make you

764
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 1: want to leave Nashville? Did it change the way you

765
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: know you and your family that are back home in

766
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: Texas have conversations about these things, or did you just

767
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: have to figure out how to navigate around it and

768
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: keep it pushing.

769
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think I've thought about this for

770
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 2: years because when you're so in the middle of this,

771
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:45,919
Speaker 2: like eye of the hurricane, it's yeah, You're like, how

772
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,839
Speaker 2: are people this pissed? Like yeah, over like the criticism

773
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 2: of cruelty? And I think it's because they're not only

774
00:47:55,680 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 2: like defending the person that said this, but they are

775
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 2: taking it personally as if I'm criticizing them, which I

776
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:09,919
Speaker 2: think says you know a lot more about their interpretation

777
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 2: of criticism and what that content was. Then me as

778
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:20,400
Speaker 2: a person calling out someone using the N word or

779
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 2: even like transphobia that I've criticized in the past that

780
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 2: sort of like exploded in another wave.

781
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: I get that too.

782
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's never like I've begun this. It's like

783
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,760
Speaker 2: as someone that's appear and in the in the realm

784
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 2: of this music industry, just being like, yeah, let's do better.

785
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 2: That was a weird one, apologize, let's move on, like

786
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 2: go back to the show. But it was in such

787
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,399
Speaker 2: a moment of time of like change in America and

788
00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 2: like having these hard conversations. So yeah, I mean, like

789
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 2: the death threat portion for me as a young mother

790
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,240
Speaker 2: was yeah, obviously like scary, and it wasn't death threats

791
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 2: against me, it was it was against my son too,

792
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 2: So it's like, oh, wow, now we're involving the kids,

793
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 2: the ones that you cared so much about. So it's just, yeah,

794
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 2: it's incredibly dangerous and scary, and you know, you just

795
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 2: open up a whole can of worms of crazy people

796
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 2: and pundits that like, you know, make you, uh, you know,

797
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 2: the kickbox the hell out of you. But I think

798
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 2: that yeah, ultimately, yeah, it's like I I look back

799
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 2: on what has happened, and I'm like I I've done

800
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 2: a lot of like work on myself and tons of

801
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 2: I mean, no one can guilt, trip me or make

802
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,240
Speaker 2: me feel more like shit than myself. So I'm looking

803
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 2: at all the of that too. Yeah, like do you

804
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 2: That's like being a woman is like no one knows

805
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 2: how to criticize us more than each other or ourselves.

806
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 2: So I that when I really looked at everything, the

807
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,359
Speaker 2: whole rap sheet of what had gone down the last

808
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 2: few years in my vocalness, I'm like, no, I stand

809
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 2: by what I said. I don't regret it, I don't apologize.

810
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,919
Speaker 2: I feel the exact same way as I did that day.

811
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 2: What I maybe use the channels of Twitter again, Probably not,

812
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 2: there's probably like more dignified ways to get my point across,

813
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:35,800
Speaker 2: but hey, it is what it is. Yeah, don't be racist,

814
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 2: don't be transphobic, don't be homophobic, like all the things.

815
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 2: Still stand by that. Like, so if you're expecting me

816
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: to feel bad, no, I actually the only thing that

817
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 2: made me feel bad was like realizing even in this

818
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 2: community of music here in Nashville and I still live here,

819
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 2: is like, oh wow, who will go to bat for

820
00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 2: you or people of color? And who will go to

821
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 2: bat for them. Yes, I mean a lot of people

822
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 2: just unfortunately as you learn, like in these industries or

823
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:13,240
Speaker 2: just life itself, it's like fear and sort of group

824
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 2: mentality and peer pressure and money, you kind of learn

825
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 2: really quick like who people side with it yep. But

826
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 2: I've made some just incredible friendships and relationships musical or

827
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 2: not through the last few years because it's it's terrifying,

828
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 2: but it's also amazing when people know where you stand

829
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 2: because you make relationships and friendships happen that maybe like

830
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,919
Speaker 2: I don't know, people judged a book by it their

831
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 2: cover before, and now the world sees you as you

832
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 2: are or as you've shown them, and beautiful things come

833
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 2: from it. Like I've had so many incredible opportunities and

834
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 2: friendships to the last few years of showing my full self,

835
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 2: you know, the DNC being the most recent of them,

836
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 2: you know, getting an award from GLAD and like just yeah,

837
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 2: it's truly like connects with people and have them say

838
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 2: like thank you for saying it all because maybe they

839
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 2: grew up in the South and like yeah, grew up

840
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 2: in an environment or went to a school where they

841
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:35,399
Speaker 2: were bullied and were made fun of for that thing,

842
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: and I think that's it's obviously like still so tragic

843
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,800
Speaker 2: and heartbreaking, but when you find this community of people

844
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 2: that have been marginalized, and you know, as as a

845
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 2: musician and as a songwriter being like a conduit of

846
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 2: people's emotions through my own, yeah, out into the world.

847
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: If there's one thing I wish I could do, they

848
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: would be to write music. Like it's so cool and

849
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 1: you know, to your point, like what you have been

850
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:13,919
Speaker 1: able to represent for people, and I'm sure hear from

851
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: people like I'm one of those people. Your you know,

852
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: intermission is so special as an EP certainly, but like

853
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: for me, I was like, oh, this is the album

854
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: I needed, Like if I knew how to do what

855
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 1: you do, this is what I would have wanted to

856
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: write about the last two years, and like, I don't know,

857
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 1: I'm so curious about it, especially you know, because same

858
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 1: same like the sort of public experience of coming out

859
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: in one way or another, even for me where I

860
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: was like, have y'all just like not been paying attention

861
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 1: to my career or like any of my choices for

862
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 1: the last twenty years. Well, I don't know, but.

863
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 2: It's like.

864
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 1: One of the things I thought so much about was

865
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: to your point, like there are kids who get bullied

866
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: over their identities, there are kids who kill themselves when

867
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 1: they get outed, and like, you know, as someone who

868
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: was you know, essentially being outed myself, I was like, well,

869
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: I guess I didn't think I'd have to have this conversation.

870
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: It would just be what it is. And then in

871
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 1: a way it was like, well I want to have

872
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 1: the conversation, and like, if you want to shame me,

873
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: watch how proud I'm going to go out and be

874
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 1: in the world.

875
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, you can't weaponize it.

876
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: No, I was like, watch me celebrate, watch me It's

877
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 1: going to be delicious.

878
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 2: And like when you.

879
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: When you wrote Push Me Over with Muna, some of

880
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 1: my favorite people also in music, it was fun to

881
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,760
Speaker 1: read about how you wrote it with that band after

882
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: you'd gone on a date with a woman, but you

883
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 1: talked about going through like by panic and it just.

884
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 2: Made me like giggle.

885
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I want to talk

886
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 1: to you about all of this, Like what where do

887
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: you think that came from? And like how did you

888
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 1: decide to turn it into part of the journey of

889
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 1: the album, Like you made art out of this feeling

890
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: of what I assume was sort of excitement and overwhelm

891
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: all at the same time. Like, was that the first

892
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 1: aha moment for you that you also liked women or

893
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 1: do you think you had like maybe tamped that down

894
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 1: a little bit growing up in a conservative community.

895
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 2: I just want to know all the things.

896
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 1: I have so many questions.

897
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was something I always knew about

898
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 2: myself because the day I was writing this song with Muna,

899
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 2: having just come from this date the night before with

900
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 2: this beautiful woman in La, like everyone in La is

901
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 2: also like beautiful, so like dating again just like crazy.

902
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 2: But yeah, they were asking like when did you know?

903
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 2: And I was like, well, I think I've always known,

904
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 2: because you know, every girl is different. But like in

905
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 2: like you're high in high school. I just remember being

906
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 2: at like sleepovers where maybe like a ton of us girls,

907
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 2: some of us are super close, some of us are

908
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,280
Speaker 2: like just meaning for a time or maybe like summer camp,

909
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 2: like we're just like Gayer. Yeah, you're just like Okay,

910
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 2: you're cute, and then you like have this bond and

911
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:14,359
Speaker 2: there's something so tough to identify because women are just

912
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 2: innately well, we're wonderful and like we're lovely well, and

913
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 2: we just don't like small talk. From like age of

914
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 2: eight to now, it's really hard sometimes for me to

915
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 2: delineate my sexual attraction or just my like love of women,

916
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 2: because if I say, like with you, there's no small talk,

917
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 2: there's no bullshit. We immediately dive into something like really

918
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 2: meaningful and deep because we don't have to do this

919
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 2: like gay chicken for hours that boys probably have to do,

920
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 2: like you know, they can't like a great men like sys.

921
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 2: Men can't not just admit to each other like yeah,

922
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:55,399
Speaker 2: this guy's hot, Like they can't do it. So when

923
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,359
Speaker 2: hours like on a golf course, and you'll you'll be like,

924
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 2: oh my god, if I'd spent one hour with a

925
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 2: woman on a golf course, we would be talking about

926
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 2: our mothers. We'd be talking about some crazy trauma from

927
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 2: like third grade. I mean, we would just be getting

928
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 2: into it. And so I don't know about you, but

929
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:13,720
Speaker 2: I've talked to like other women about this, and especially

930
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 2: like bisexual women of like just knowing. Am I connecting

931
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 2: with this person because it's just so easy and fun

932
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 2: to connect with women in general? Or is it because

933
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 2: I have a little crush? So that's sort of how

934
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 2: pushed me over began was that sort of conversation. And

935
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 2: then obviously like just feeling so safe in this room

936
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 2: with Muna like and Tobias Jess. Just being able to

937
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 2: like write a song about sex belonging but in a

938
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 2: fun way and it not being serious or deep. That's

939
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 2: what that was the breath of fresh air I needed

940
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 2: in my life in this chapter of dating totally and

941
00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 2: truly like dating for the first time, because I've never

942
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 2: really had that phase of my life. I've been like, well,

943
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 2: two really long relationships, but.

944
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to be able to harness your giddiness and

945
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: let it be fun again, like how lovely, how lovely

946
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 1: to be an adult and to be like, oh.

947
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 2: My god, I'm giddy. Yeah, and also maybe special displaying

948
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 2: this multifacetedness of you know, just being a person in general,

949
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 2: like being a mother, being in my early thirties, being

950
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 2: recently divorced, but still like having these discoveries and I

951
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,439
Speaker 2: hope to continue having them till I die. I think

952
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 2: that sort of being on display is so fun and

953
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 2: refreshing because it's like not that I'm saying I'm like

954
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 2: eighty years old, Like it's never too late, but I

955
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 2: do feel like that with this EP. It's like, hey,

956
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 2: here's everything going on right now, and there's more to come, obviously,

957
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 2: but it's like the fun is never over, it's just beginning.

958
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 2: And that's yeah. It's fucking terrified what we had said

959
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 2: like an hour ago about you know this, this fear

960
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 2: of leaving or this fear of starting over, and there

961
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 2: are so many valid fears to that, whether it's financial

962
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 2: fears of separation or divorce, or breaking up a job

963
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 2: that doesn't vibe with you anymore. I mean, there's so

964
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 2: many valid reasons you could all day say to yourself

965
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 2: to stay because it's terrifying, Like it's it's nauseating to

966
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 2: hit hit the reset button, and it's not even like

967
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 2: a clean reset. It's like a complete implosion mostly and

968
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 2: it's messy and there's shrapnel emotionally everywhere on everyone, and

969
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 2: you're gonna carry guilt about that. I don't know if

970
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 2: that actually goes away. I'm doing this so I'll find out.

971
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 2: But I think the risk that you have to take

972
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 2: to be happy after trying everything, yes, like you deserve that,

973
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 2: and don't let anyone make you think that you did

974
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 2: it on a whim or selfish, or you're jeopardizing everyone

975
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 2: else's like life and future because of your own like

976
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. I mean no, I don't know one

977
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 2: woman that did anything on a whim. They know we

978
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,439
Speaker 2: will go through every and exhaust every avenue to make

979
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 2: sure something is truly not working.

980
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors that I

981
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: really enjoy and I think you will too. The thing

982
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: that was really interesting for me to hear and like

983
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 1: hearing you talk about it, and even having so many

984
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 1: friends who all went through it last summer and like

985
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: friends going through it now, overwhelming theme for everyone has

986
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: been I should have trusted my guts sooner. It's never oh,

987
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: I did this too fast, It's wow, I really dragged

988
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 1: this out. I really like. I just I tried and

989
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 1: tried and tried and tried until it almost killed me.

990
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 1: And that that's something you know, like when we talk

991
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 1: about what we hope to build right for the future,

992
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 1: for the kids, for their kids, like I do hope

993
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 1: as we start to embrace more of our full selves,

994
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 1: we can start to build worlds where women don't like

995
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 1: beat themselves half to death to stay like I really

996
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: hope we can start to give ourselves more space to

997
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 1: not be as you were saying earlier, loyal to a

998
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: fault or loyal to the point of self erasure. You know,

999
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 1: do you feel like, because before we move on from

1000
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,959
Speaker 1: that topic, I'm so curious to ask, like, was part

1001
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 1: of the reason that you wanted to come out publicly

1002
01:01:57,680 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 1: because you knew you were like going to publicly be

1003
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 1: going on dates with women with men, and you you

1004
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 1: wanted to be able to like own it for yourself

1005
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: or were you just like it's pride and I feel ready.

1006
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 2: I mean a little bit of both. And I think

1007
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 2: you know, knowing that this song was going to be

1008
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 2: coming out too, I thought, yeah, well I can I

1009
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 2: can either just drop this song into the world and

1010
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 2: have people wonder. And I hate the like confusion, and

1011
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 2: I felt like I wanted to celebrate it. I didn't

1012
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 2: want to. And I also for myself, I just wanted

1013
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 2: to have everything out there, like yep, I think those

1014
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 2: are things that should be forward facing for me, not

1015
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 2: do you, but for me, I was like, my life

1016
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 2: is so open now, I'm not hiding any like any

1017
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 2: portion of myself. So it was it was out of

1018
01:02:56,240 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 2: like true like celebratory nature. It's Pride month. Yes, Like

1019
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 2: I also loved not doing a stupid press release or whatever.

1020
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 2: I was like, oh god, I was like, gag, let's

1021
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 2: just do. I was like, I'm just going to put

1022
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 2: it in like an Instagram caption, like on a tour photo,

1023
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 2: so like it could literally just look like, oh, here's

1024
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 2: where we played last night. Oh by the way, like, yeah,

1025
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 2: I'm this letter. But no, I liked keeping it like

1026
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 2: lighthearted because it's like it's it's not a thing that

1027
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 2: is for me, a thing that needs like an entire

1028
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 2: spiel or article on Like I was like, but you're right,

1029
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 2: Like being in this sort of role of like never

1030
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 2: having dated, I'm probably going to be dating, you know,

1031
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 2: out in public. I would like to be able to

1032
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 2: do that without any sort of like malicious intent from

1033
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 2: you know, press or bloggers or whatever.

1034
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 1: So and they are wild yeah.

1035
01:03:58,120 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 2: And I truly doubt they even care.

1036
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 1: But I was just like, you know, just so I

1037
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 1: know that they do, I'll confirm for you they do.

1038
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 2: Well. I was like, some people know my views on

1039
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 2: the topic and my words here it is, so nothing

1040
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 2: gets twisted. So I'm so glad.

1041
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 1: It feels really good when you get to have agency

1042
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 1: over your own story. And I'm always happy when people

1043
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 1: get to have that, because you know, as a person

1044
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 1: who's experienced having it taken from me and then having

1045
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 1: to reclaim it. Like, I don't know, I just love it.

1046
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 1: I'm proud. It's like it's nice to watch for people

1047
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 1: who you know, you're a fan of or who you

1048
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: care about. And I don't know, it seems at least

1049
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 1: observing that it feels like a great moment and like

1050
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: the album has been so well received and the story

1051
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 1: that it tells resonates with so many of us, Like,

1052
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 1: having had it out now for almost a month, how

1053
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 1: does it feel for you? Is that there is that

1054
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: the reaction, this kind of overwhelming positivity and me the

1055
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 1: me too, Like I've been through that too.

1056
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 2: Is that.

1057
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:10,919
Speaker 1: What you're seeing the most of Like does it feel

1058
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 1: really vulnerable? Does it feel really freeing?

1059
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean it feels really vulnerable on a few

1060
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 2: of the songs being out in the public, but like

1061
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:22,720
Speaker 2: kind of what I had predicted when I was recording

1062
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 2: them and really trying to figure out what to put

1063
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 2: on this. I was like, I can already envision myself

1064
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 2: singing these songs live and like trying, laughing, connecting with

1065
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 2: people and by the thousands, and so I think, you know,

1066
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 2: for me, I do this now, like years in like

1067
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 2: for my own therapy, to get this out of my body,

1068
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 2: because like as a heavy impath, like when I don't

1069
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 2: exert that energy or if I stifle it, if I

1070
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 2: stay in a situation too long, like my body's hacking

1071
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 2: itself like a lot of like stresses the last few years,

1072
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 2: and like my hair will literally start to fall out,

1073
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 2: and like that's how much you hold in. And so

1074
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 2: I've just like learned to like truly express it in

1075
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:15,480
Speaker 2: a way that I know is going to bring me

1076
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 2: peace and like it's never to hurt someone else. I'm

1077
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 2: not writing these songs for any other intention than to

1078
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 2: just heal myself. And the byproduct of that, which is amazing,

1079
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 2: but it's not my reason for doing this anymore, is

1080
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:39,400
Speaker 2: that people can hear themselves in the story as well,

1081
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 2: and I think that that's a beautiful thing. I have

1082
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 2: no control over that, like whether you connect with it

1083
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 2: or not, that's not my job. My job is just

1084
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 2: to get it out. And I think that that's a

1085
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 2: nice sort of like responsibility taken off my shoulders. Is

1086
01:06:56,320 --> 01:07:02,160
Speaker 2: that like, yes, speak up, use your voice, write your songs, perform,

1087
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 2: show up when you can. But ultimately, like just again,

1088
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 2: it life's too short to worry about every single brain

1089
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 2: in the world's perception of you. That you've got to

1090
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 2: just figure out how to be happy and that will

1091
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 2: emanate to you, well, my son, to others, to the

1092
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:27,600
Speaker 2: people that work for me, to fans, like that's an

1093
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 2: aw ripple and that's amazing. But there's there's a there's

1094
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:39,200
Speaker 2: a selfishness that is absolutely warranted and healthy and and

1095
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 2: and ripples outward in a mattered way. Uh. And I

1096
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 2: think something that we don't get told enough is that

1097
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 2: when you take care of yourself, people get taken care

1098
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 2: of by proxy.

1099
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:56,360
Speaker 1: Well, And it's it's that metaphor right of learning to

1100
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 1: put your own oxygen mask on first. And I think

1101
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 1: it's really related to that that phrase like people you

1102
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 1: teach people how to love you, and when you tolerate

1103
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:11,880
Speaker 1: bad behavior to be nice, when you make room for

1104
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 1: you know less than you deserve, like you can just

1105
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 1: shrink yourself down so much that then you wonder why

1106
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 1: everything feels so small and painful. And I think when

1107
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 1: you get free, you inspire other people to get free,

1108
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's a beautiful ripple effect. It almost feels

1109
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:31,720
Speaker 1: like you just answered my next question. My favorite thing

1110
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 1: to ask everyone at the end is what feels like

1111
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,639
Speaker 1: you are work in progress right now? And I wonder

1112
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 1: is it that? Is it that like choosing of self

1113
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 1: or is it a bigger thing although that's pretty big.

1114
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:49,040
Speaker 2: That seems to be that the one like the main

1115
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:55,599
Speaker 2: course for me right now is like boundaries, which are

1116
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 2: so hard to put in place with people that like

1117
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 2: benefited from you having them. Yep, So from you know,

1118
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 2: work to family to uh, employee, it's just everything like

1119
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:15,599
Speaker 2: I think, like boundaries but still keeping my my heart

1120
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 2: open and having like a a curiosity and pureness about

1121
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:24,720
Speaker 2: the state of the world, and like doing whatever I

1122
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 2: have to do on my end to retain that curiosity

1123
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 2: and beauty. I think that it's not that hard to

1124
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 2: find when you like, yeah, get all the distractions away

1125
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:42,000
Speaker 2: and keep those boundaries set. So I know that's like

1126
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 2: very you know, therapy girl speak, But I think right

1127
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 2: now that has been because once you start doing it,

1128
01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:56,559
Speaker 2: you can't stop. It's so freeing because you're like, oh

1129
01:09:56,600 --> 01:10:00,880
Speaker 2: my god, I'm finally talking to people now in a

1130
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 2: way that I should have done ten years ago. And

1131
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 2: now I can breathe. Now I'm like sleeping nine ten

1132
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 2: hours a night, Like I'm not waking up at four

1133
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:13,240
Speaker 2: am with like anxiety pit in my stomach. Like just

1134
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 2: it's finally like paying off those like people initial starts.

1135
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:23,679
Speaker 2: So and I just I get to like receive love

1136
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 2: more now, like I've always received my son's love, but

1137
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:30,559
Speaker 2: like and now he's four, so he can like talk

1138
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 2: and have conversations with me. So we just have this

1139
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 2: connection that you know, we've always had, but now it's

1140
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:42,680
Speaker 2: more verbal. Just like truly being bowled over by the

1141
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 2: innocence of children and like having I just wrote this

1142
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 2: children's book with my best friend Karna, and like I

1143
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:54,719
Speaker 2: think like even through that a portal that's not music,

1144
01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:58,759
Speaker 2: but still being creative and inner child work has been

1145
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:03,759
Speaker 2: a really like huge dose of joy in my life

1146
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:09,040
Speaker 2: and love that, yeah, and then just receiving like when

1147
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 2: people are truly like connecting with you, like even dating,

1148
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:14,320
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, a lot of it is a nightmare

1149
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 2: and very like did but I think when you like

1150
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 2: find a little spark, it's like, oh, I forgot I

1151
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:24,600
Speaker 2: could feel like this, this is not you know, I

1152
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:26,720
Speaker 2: can still have this happen to me, even with all

1153
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,639
Speaker 2: the protection and work I've done with myself, I can

1154
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 2: still like feel something with someone, like someone who was

1155
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 2: a complete stranger a few days ago, Like you know,

1156
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 2: something magical about that.

1157
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:41,600
Speaker 1: There is I think, I don't know. It feels like

1158
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 1: a theme to me is that you can always be

1159
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:47,200
Speaker 1: surprised and like you said, not to be cliche, but

1160
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:51,040
Speaker 1: it is never too late. And so I think to

1161
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 1: I think, to be willing to lean into your courage

1162
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:57,400
Speaker 1: over and over again throughout your life is a pretty

1163
01:11:57,439 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 1: beautiful thing.

1164
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 2: So well, it's been such an amazing thing to watch.

1165
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:08,720
Speaker 2: It's just like you navigate your life and career and

1166
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 2: personal life just with the public eye and the scrutiny

1167
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:15,320
Speaker 2: that comes with that, but also just like the power

1168
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:17,960
Speaker 2: that you have and how you use it for deep

1169
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:23,360
Speaker 2: connection with people and and for good yeah I mean,

1170
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:26,679
Speaker 2: and then just seeing you like and your energy last week,

1171
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:29,240
Speaker 2: I was like, girl, take your three days of like

1172
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:34,160
Speaker 2: the curtains, because you exerted so much love and energy

1173
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 2: last week and like resource providing people with the actual

1174
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:40,760
Speaker 2: data like that, that's that is not just like you

1175
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 2: hitting a button. That is like you using a lot

1176
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 2: of your heart and brain and everything to just show

1177
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:50,679
Speaker 2: up in a way that you can. And so yeah,

1178
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 2: I'm you're a badass.

1179
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:55,920
Speaker 1: You want as are you, my dear, and thank you

1180
01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:58,800
Speaker 1: so much that really that means a lot. It feels nice.

1181
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 1: It does take a lot of work, but it's like

1182
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:04,679
Speaker 1: being able to use a platform in that way feels

1183
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 1: like such a calling for me, and I know in

1184
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 1: so many ways does for you too. And yeah, it's

1185
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 1: why I'm always excited when I see you in a room.

1186
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, because I know we're not going to

1187
01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 1: small talk and it's always great.

1188
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:20,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know we cannot small talk. I love that

1189
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 2: about us. O Maya.

1190
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for coming today, thank you for you know,

1191
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 1: sharing your heart and your art, and yeah, I'm always

1192
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 1: rooting for you.

1193
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:34,080
Speaker 2: Thank you well, same love. It was so nice being

1194
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:36,880
Speaker 2: on here, and yeah, I hope we see each other.

1195
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:37,680
Speaker 2: I know.

1196
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:39,639
Speaker 1: I'm like, we need to do this without the mics

1197
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:42,640
Speaker 1: and like a bottle of wine. Asa, Oh okay.

1198
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:45,160
Speaker 2: Good, next time I'm in town, we should.

1199
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:48,040
Speaker 1: I would love it all right, Okay, honey, you have

1200
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 1: a great rest of your day.

1201
01:13:49,120 --> 01:14:06,720
Speaker 2: Thank you you too, Thanks everyone,