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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Cardinal Territory. I'm your host, Katie Wu.

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Speaker 1: It's been a minute. If you watched our last couple

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Speaker 1: of episodes, it was pretty clear I was definitely not

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent, but starting to feel much much better.

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Speaker 1: I would not recommend getting sick in the week before

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Speaker 1: the trade deadline. Zero out of five stars really put

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Speaker 1: a damper on my all star break honestly, but again, thankfully,

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Speaker 1: feeling much better and sounding much better. I know if

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Speaker 1: you listened to the last two episodes. Sorry about my voice.

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Speaker 1: There was just quite littlely nothing I could do about it.

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Speaker 1: I know I sounded disgusting. Hopefully I'm sounding a lot

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Speaker 1: better to you guys now. But I figured, with just

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Speaker 1: five days left until MLB is July thirty, first, five

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Speaker 1: pm Central Time deadline, now would be a good time

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Speaker 1: to give you all an update on what I'm hearing

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Speaker 1: about the Cardinals plans. We have a story about that

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Speaker 1: on The Athletic Now, and we'll fill in some information

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Speaker 1: here on this episode. First, some housekeeping, Saint Louis drops

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Speaker 1: the third game of this four game series to the Padres,

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Speaker 1: losing three to one. On Saturday Night, Michael McGreevy we'll

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Speaker 1: get the start in the finale on Sunday. At long last,

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Speaker 1: Michael McGreevy is a regular in the starting rotation. That

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Speaker 1: move happened, of course, when the Cardinals dfade Eric Fetti

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Speaker 1: on Wednesday in Denver. All signs point to McGreevy remaining

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Speaker 1: in the rotation for the remainder of the season. So

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Speaker 1: a really good opportunity for us McGreevy enthusiasts here on

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Speaker 1: the pod to see what he's got in the final

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Speaker 1: two months of the season, and who knows what those

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Speaker 1: two months will look like. Heading into play Sunday, the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals are one of four teams buying for that last

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Speaker 1: National League wildcard spot. There two and a half games

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Speaker 1: behind the Padres, with both the Reds and the Giants

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Speaker 1: in between. What does this mean for their trade deadline plans?

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Speaker 1: Great question, Let's get to it. As we reported in

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Speaker 1: The Athletic yesterday, the Cardinals are listening on rental relievers,

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Speaker 1: but they have yet to publicly declare a direction, and

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Speaker 1: to be quite honest, they might not do so until

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Speaker 1: those final seventy two hours before the deadline. The Cardinals,

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Speaker 1: as they teeter around five hundred and in contention, by

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Speaker 1: the definition of the word contention, still have a lot

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Speaker 1: to weigh as to who they'll part with. I still

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Speaker 1: think Ryan Helsley is as good as gone. It's got

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Speaker 1: a chance to talk to Helsley in Denver, where he

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Speaker 1: put his trade odds himself at ninety percent. He said,

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Speaker 1: I'm ninety percent sure I'm going to be traded, ten

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Speaker 1: percent sure I'm going to stay. As the relief market

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Speaker 1: starts to take form, we'll have a better idea on

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Speaker 1: what that package for Helsley could look like. But I

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Speaker 1: firmly expect him to be on the move. His value

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Speaker 1: is just too high. They'll entertain offers on Phil Aton

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Speaker 1: and Steven Mattz as well, but surprisingly, and shout out Bernie,

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Speaker 1: who had this figured out days ago, the Cardinals are

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Speaker 1: also getting a lot of interest about Jojo Romero. So

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Speaker 1: let's look at JoJo's stats real quick on Baseball Reference.

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Speaker 1: I know it was about April, but we talked about

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Speaker 1: the mechanical adjustments he's made with pitching coach Dusty Blake.

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Speaker 1: It's led to a three and three record, a two

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Speaker 1: twelve ERA over forty games, thirty four innings, thirty four strikeouts.

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Speaker 1: He has one more year of team remaining after this,

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Speaker 1: he'll be a free agent after the twenty twenty six season,

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Speaker 1: so he'll bring a little bit more of a return

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Speaker 1: because of the team control. Teams really like what Jojo

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Speaker 1: Romero can bring from the left side. Cardinals fans have

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Speaker 1: seen it for a couple of years now. When he's right,

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Speaker 1: he is a viable weapon. And the padres here have

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Speaker 1: been scouting Romero heavily. Clearly they must like what they

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Speaker 1: see because he's done a really nice job against him.

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Speaker 1: The whole bullpen actually has done a nice job in

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Speaker 1: the San Diego series, and that brings us to kind

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Speaker 1: of a crossroads here for Jean Moiseillac and the Cardinals.

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Speaker 1: All season long, I think we've talked about the inconsistencies

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Speaker 1: as a whole from this roster, whether it's the rotation,

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Speaker 1: whether it's the offense, but I think the bullpen and

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Speaker 1: no bullpen is perfect. I think overall the bullpen has

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Speaker 1: done a really nice job, especially as of late. So

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Speaker 1: I find it ironic that the names that the Cardinals

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Speaker 1: are entertaining, whether that's Hellsley, whether it's Mayton, whether it's Matt's,

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Speaker 1: whether it's Jojo, have been instrumental in their late inning success,

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Speaker 1: and I had a conversation with manager Allie Marvel before

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Speaker 1: Saturday's game about the difficulties of that if the car

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Speaker 1: Cardinals decide to sell, because I still don't know if

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Speaker 1: a full cell is in their picture, maybe a soft cell.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they move one piece, maybe they don't. We don't

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Speaker 1: know that yet. I'll update you, of course, and I

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Speaker 1: know more. But if the Cardinals are looking to move

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Speaker 1: their relievers, that kind of makes things really complicated because

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure who they have to replace some of

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Speaker 1: these guys. And that's why I don't think the Cardinals

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Speaker 1: can sell and compete at the same time. I know

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Speaker 1: we've talked about it before, like last year the Detroit

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Speaker 1: Tigers sold at the deadline and somehow got better and

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Speaker 1: made it to the playoffs. And now look at the

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Speaker 1: Tigers there. I know they're going through a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a lull right now, but they're one of the

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Speaker 1: best teams in the American League. I have a hard

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Speaker 1: time seeing the Cardinals go that route and having that

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Speaker 1: same success record because you're trading away the guys that

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Speaker 1: lock down the late Indians for you. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if the Cardinals have somebody that can replace Hallsley in

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Speaker 1: the ninth or Mayton is a setup man. I like

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Speaker 1: what we've seen out of Kyle Lahy. I think Andre

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Speaker 1: Gernio's shown well in his limited starts. Gordon Griseppo has

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Speaker 1: the stuff, it just needs to be a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: Riley O'Brien has been a really strong success story in

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Speaker 1: this last two months of the season. But if you're

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Speaker 1: trying to contend, which again I'm not quite sure the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals have chosen that direction. Whatever they decide to do,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be really hard to do that without

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Speaker 1: your relievers. So not a lot to update on the

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Speaker 1: relief market picture, other than John Mozelac has started to

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Speaker 1: inform some rival clubs that he will listen on his

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Speaker 1: rental believers. Again, though nothing is for certain. I would

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Speaker 1: expect after this series to maybe have a little bit

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Speaker 1: more clarity. But again, guys, I can really see these

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Speaker 1: decisions going down to the Tuesday Wednesday before Thursday's deadlines,

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Speaker 1: so patients, not every team can be the Yankees and

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Speaker 1: swing a ton of trades or the d Backs. They've

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Speaker 1: been the most active teams by far in this deadline.

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Speaker 1: But we said coming into it that this is probably

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Speaker 1: going to be a rather slow deadline. There's not a

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Speaker 1: ton of stars available and the market is still undefined,

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Speaker 1: so many bubble teams still in the picture, including Saint Louis.

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Speaker 1: All right, we'll get into some other points of what

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Speaker 1: we're hearing about the Cardinals and the deadline, namely with

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Speaker 1: Milan Arnott and Sunny Gray and of course Brendan Donovan. Quickly, though,

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Speaker 1: All right, So I'll preface this next segment with I

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Speaker 1: do not expect Nolan Arnado nor Sonny Gray to be

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Speaker 1: traded at this deadline. Do I expect us to revisit

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Speaker 1: that conversation during the off season, Yes, but right now,

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Speaker 1: the odds of either of those players being moved before

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Speaker 1: July thirty first so so so slim. All right, that's

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Speaker 1: my disclaimer. I will say it's worth noting that, according

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Speaker 1: to multiple league sources, John Mozelac has started to gauge

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Speaker 1: interest to see if any team would be willing to

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Speaker 1: take on either of these two players. Of course, both

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Speaker 1: Nolan Arnado and Sunny Gray have full no trade clauses,

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Speaker 1: so this is really just preliminary gauging interest conversations. I'll

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Speaker 1: go ahead and read this segment from the Athletic Saint

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Speaker 1: Louis will entertain offers on Nolan Arnado and Sonny Gray.

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Speaker 1: Both players have full no trade causes, but could be

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Speaker 1: motivated to waive them for the right fit. Mozaela has

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Speaker 1: started to gauge the interest of a handful of contending teams,

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Speaker 1: though the talks are described as preliminary. Of either player

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Speaker 1: being traded before the deadline remains slim, but the Cardinals

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Speaker 1: are financially motivated to move their contracts. Gray is owned

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Speaker 1: thirty five million dollars in twenty twenty six, his final

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Speaker 1: guaranteed the year of a three year contract. The Cardinals

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Speaker 1: do have a club option for twenty seven, and Ronado

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Speaker 1: has thirty one million dollars not including deferrals, remaining over

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Speaker 1: the next two seasons. So again, this would be a

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Speaker 1: financially motivated move that I don't anticipate taking place this deadline,

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Speaker 1: but it's worth noting that John Mozelock is trying to

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Speaker 1: gauge the interest of other teams. Another player that teams

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Speaker 1: are engaging interested in is Brendan Donovan. I'll do this

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Speaker 1: disclaimer as well. I don't think the Cardinals will move

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Speaker 1: Brendan Donovan, and I don't think they want to unless

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Speaker 1: the return is colossal. I'm talking about something they cannot

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Speaker 1: say no to. And according to multiple industry sources that

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Speaker 1: I've talked to the Ward that all of us, it's

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Speaker 1: been the exact same, It's been sky high. The Cardinals

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Speaker 1: will not entertain a trade for Brendan Donovan unless the

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Speaker 1: return is sky high. So I'll read that segment here

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Speaker 1: from The Athletic as well. Again, you can check it out.

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Speaker 1: It's a dollar a month. If you don't subscribe, check

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Speaker 1: it out. I'm just saying the Los Angeles Dodgers are

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Speaker 1: the team that have the most interest in Brennan Donovan

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Speaker 1: right now, and if you're getting PTSD to the Tommy

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Speaker 1: Edmund trade, I will say it is a little similar.

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Speaker 1: The New York Gates did have interest in Brendan Donovan,

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Speaker 1: though at this time that seemed to be a little

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Speaker 1: bit tempered back because they just traded for Ryan McMahon

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Speaker 1: and On d Rosario from the Nationals. That tradement down

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Speaker 1: about an hour ago, so right now it doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: like Donovan is a fit for New York because they've

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Speaker 1: got two pieces that he would essentially fit. So not

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Speaker 1: sure that that interest is still there anymore. But the Dodgers'

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Speaker 1: interest is legit fobbing. Ardaya, the Dodgers writer for The

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Speaker 1: Athletic has a good story up there. But what the

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Speaker 1: Dodgers are looking for bullpen pitching is pority number one.

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Speaker 1: So maybe they're interested in Ryan Helsley, right, but they are.

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Speaker 1: They are looking, excuse me, for a left handed bat

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Speaker 1: that can play the outfield, and that's Brendan Donovan. If

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Speaker 1: they decide that they want to keep him at second base,

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Speaker 1: you can move Tommy Edmund to the outfield. Again. The

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Speaker 1: odds of this happening remain slim, but it's worth noting

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Speaker 1: this interest. Of course, contending teams want someone like Brendan Donovan,

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Speaker 1: an All Star this year, having the best year of

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Speaker 1: his career, still has two years of control remaining, So

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Speaker 1: the Cardinals should listen, even if it's an hypothetical situation,

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Speaker 1: even if it's just hey, checking in, what's your read

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Speaker 1: on this? Because Donovan's value has never been higher, and

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Speaker 1: if you're looking for the future, this is probably the

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Speaker 1: player that's going to net you the best return. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you're the Cardinals and you're thinking you want Brendan

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Speaker 1: Donovan for your future, okay, sure, I'm totally on board

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Speaker 1: with that as well. We've said this on the show

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Speaker 1: plenty of times. Brennan Donovan is the kind of player

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Speaker 1: that I think you build a franchise around. But it's

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Speaker 1: the trade deadline rumors fly. We know the Dodgers have interest.

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Speaker 1: We can't count the Dodgers out of anything, so we'll

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Speaker 1: continue to monitor. But honestly, as we sit here on

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Speaker 1: Saturday night, it's almost midnight here. If you ask me

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Speaker 1: what my gut feeling about the Cardinals at the deadline

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Speaker 1: are going to do, I don't think they're going to

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Speaker 1: be super active. I really don't. I can see Brian

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Speaker 1: Helsley going be shocked if he didn't go, and I

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Speaker 1: could see Jojo Romero going. And I think Phil Mayton

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Speaker 1: does have a ton of value. I know it's only

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Speaker 1: for two months, but you think about what his reputation is.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he is a postseason caliber player, ton of

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Speaker 1: experience there. He's pitching the postseason every year since twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one, veteran experience setup man, very very chill, doesn't

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Speaker 1: scare easily. He's the exact type of reliever, rental reliever

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Speaker 1: that contending teams want. So I do think there's a

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Speaker 1: market for Mayton. Not sure if there's going to be

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Speaker 1: a heavy market for Matts. He's owed twelve million dollars

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Speaker 1: this year. My early math very unofficial, don't quote me

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Speaker 1: on this has him owed a little bit less than

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Speaker 1: five million dollars, maybe around four point five for the

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Speaker 1: rest of the season. That's a lot of money for

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Speaker 1: teams to be taking on for a flyer, So we'll

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Speaker 1: see about that. But I don't expect the Cardinals to

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Speaker 1: make any colossal trades. I don't know if Hellesley would

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Speaker 1: qualify as a colossal trade because I think we all

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Speaker 1: are kind of expecting him to be moved anyway. But

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Speaker 1: I can see this being just kind of a tempered set.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: Even when the Cardinals sold in twenty twenty three, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't this big fire sale. They only traded the players

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Speaker 1: on expiring contracts. When we talked to Moe in Denver,

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Speaker 1: he briefly met with the media the first day of

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Speaker 1: that series against the Rockies. He did say he still

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Speaker 1: remains inclined to listen on his rental believers, but he's

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Speaker 1: going to remain open minded to everything. That's what you

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Speaker 1: should do when you are a seller, especially this year.

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Speaker 1: The sellers have all of the leverage, and though Ryan

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Speaker 1: Helsley would only be a rental for two months, I

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Speaker 1: still think he has a ton of value and I

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Speaker 1: think the Cardinals will end up moving him. It's just

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Speaker 1: a matter of time. So weird times in Cardinals Land.

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Speaker 1: Can I see a situation where they hold yes? Would

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Speaker 1: I agree with that? Absolutely not. But it's what makes

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Speaker 1: this next game against the Padres exciting. If you go

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Speaker 1: ahead and you take three of four from Mike Schult

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Speaker 1: and his team and you can stay someone in the race,

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Speaker 1: maybe you can spin it, but let's be honest. Let's

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Speaker 1: look at the standings here, guys. Let me pull it

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Speaker 1: up as we come into play on Sunday. The division

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Speaker 1: does not look good. If you're the Cardinals. They are

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Speaker 1: eight games back, all right, the Cubs sixty one and

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Speaker 1: forty three, same record as the Brewers. It's gonna be

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Speaker 1: neck and neck between those two teams. And then the

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Speaker 1: Reds are kind of lingering in third place, five games

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Speaker 1: above five hundred. They're six and a half games out

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Speaker 1: of the division. You can count the Cardinals out of

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Speaker 1: the Enel Central. Let's just call it now, let's call

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Speaker 1: that race. It's either gonna be the Cubs or the Brewers,

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Speaker 1: and one of those teams, whoever doesn't win the division

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Speaker 1: will be a wildcard team. So that would leave two spots.

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Speaker 1: The Phillies right now have that. They are neck and

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Speaker 1: neck with the Mets and then the Padres, and there

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Speaker 1: is a four and a half game back between wildcard

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Speaker 1: spot number five and wildcard spot number six. So you

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Speaker 1: essentially have four teams competing for one spot because whether

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Speaker 1: it's the Mets, the Phillies, the Brewers, or the Cubs. Again,

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Speaker 1: whichever teams don't win their divisions, they're going to be

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Speaker 1: wildcard teams. So you have one spot for four teams.

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Speaker 1: Does that really make the Cardinals contenders? I say no.

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Speaker 1: I say no. You're playing with such slim odds for

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Speaker 1: a team that is not one piece away from being

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Speaker 1: a winning team. All right, this Cardinals team has a

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Speaker 1: significant amount of flaws. I don't want to discredit what

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Speaker 1: they did in the first half. They did a nice

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Speaker 1: job staying competitive, but as currently constructed. This is not

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Speaker 1: a team that you feel confident can win a playoff series.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I think the Cardinals should stick to

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Speaker 1: their gut feel of building for the future and do

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Speaker 1: a soft cell. See what you can get for your relievers.

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Speaker 1: Listen on players like Romero and Donovan. I don't again,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that they will tray Donovan, but at

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Speaker 1: least see what's out there potentially for them. And you

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Speaker 1: have to move Hellesley at this point unless you are

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Speaker 1: going to extend him, and I don't necessarily think that's

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Speaker 1: in the Cardinal's future anyway. Hard to say when they'll

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Speaker 1: have a new president of Baseball Operations making that decision.

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Speaker 1: All right, a quick message from our second sponsor, Hewle,

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Speaker 1: and then we'll wrap this quick episode up.

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Speaker 2: Be right back time for a quickie break. Cod Father

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Speaker 2: and I are going to tell you about Hughle, but

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Speaker 2: it's mostly going to be Todd Father, because I'm going

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Speaker 2: to take a sit.

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Speaker 4: tastes delicious.

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Speaker 3: When we're on the run.

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Speaker 4: We need something to eat quick. And guess what hwel

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Speaker 4: can eat them anytime of the day.

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Speaker 1: All right, something to monitor. In this final game of

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Speaker 1: the series, things have gotten a little chippy here between

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Speaker 1: the Cardinals and the Padres. Bench is clear for the

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Speaker 1: second time in two days when Wilson Contry was hit

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Speaker 1: by a pitch. He was hit by a pitch Friday

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Speaker 1: against Nick Pavetta, hit again today by Randy Vasquez. Although

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Speaker 1: that one certainly seemed unintentional. The two hugged it out

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Speaker 1: after but bench is cleared here in the ninth let

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Speaker 1: me pull it up. So much happened in the last

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours. When Manny Machado was hit for the

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Speaker 1: second time in Saturday's game, the first time he'd been

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Speaker 1: hit multiple times in one game in his career. He

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Speaker 1: did not like it. Now. Andre Gunnio was the pitcher.

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Speaker 1: The first picture to hit Manny Machatto was Matthew Libertore.

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Speaker 1: You can make the argument if that was intentional or not.

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Speaker 1: Both innings were warnings were issued to both teams after

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Speaker 1: that happened in the fifth inning, Andregnio hits Manny Machado

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Speaker 1: on an O two count in the ninth clearly not

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Speaker 1: intentional there and Manny knew it, but he still was

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Speaker 1: was mad and you get hit twice in a game,

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Speaker 1: I get it. It got a little chippy, though, because

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Speaker 1: as the benches cleared, Wilson Contreres tried to get Manny

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Speaker 1: Machado out of there and didn't look like Manny Matchado

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Speaker 1: and John Jay had some nice words to exchange to

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Speaker 1: each other. John Jay was actually ejected from the game

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Speaker 1: for the small altercation that the two got into. I

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Speaker 1: do not know what was said, what Jay said, what

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Speaker 1: Manny said, but I will read these postgame comments that

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Speaker 1: Manny Matatdo said to San Diego based reporters. He said,

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Speaker 1: him and John Jay are absolutely not friends. He said,

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Speaker 1: you're pissed off. You know what it is. I'll read

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Speaker 1: the full quote. Manny Machado was talking about Andre Gannillo here.

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Speaker 1: He said, poor kid. I know he probably doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to do that in the situation. Obviously you see him

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Speaker 1: what he does. He just kind of feels bad. You're

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Speaker 1: just pissed off, you know. It is what it is.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there was nothing to it. But then you've

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Speaker 1: got somebody else coming up and yapping their mouth. That's

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Speaker 1: when shit starts getting real. So Manny is at that

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Speaker 1: point referring to John Jay, who, as the bench is cleared,

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Speaker 1: come up and said something to him. Again, we do

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Speaker 1: not know what. Home polint Umpire Lance Barrett deemed Andre

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Speaker 1: Grannillo did not intentionally throw out Matroto, so even though

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Speaker 1: warnings were issued, Grannello was allowed to stay in the game. Jay,

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Speaker 1: of course, was ejected. It It's noteworthy because for a

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Speaker 1: very long time many Matchadda and John Jay shared a

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Speaker 1: very public friendship along with Yander Alonso. They were the

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Speaker 1: three or five Guys, three or five boys, one of those,

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Speaker 1: but clearly something happened between the two because Manny Matchado

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Speaker 1: made it very clear that him and John Jay are

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Speaker 1: not friends. So that will be worth monitoring tomorrow. And

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Speaker 1: if nothing goes down tomorrow, don't worry. The Cardinals go

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Speaker 1: to San Diego starting Friday for a three game set,

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Speaker 1: so they'll see these two teams will see each other

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Speaker 1: four more times in the next seven days. Just an

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Speaker 1: interesting thing for that to be a little public. I

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Speaker 1: don't think John Jay he'll be coaching tomorrow. He'll be back.

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Speaker 1: That ejection was just for the game. Weird times ahead

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Speaker 1: in Cardinals Land. If the trade deadline didn't make things weird,

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Speaker 1: this altercation, this whole interaction to benches, clearing incidents, two

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Speaker 1: issues worn and issued in two separate days, just a

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Speaker 1: lot going on. Weird times here. Maybe it's a full moon.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Bernie is back with me tomorrow, we'll

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Speaker 1: do a series recap, and of course we'll update you

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Speaker 1: on anything else that we're hearing about. The Saint Louis

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Speaker 1: Cardinals and the trade deadline. We'll do more of these

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Speaker 1: trade deadline updates as the week goes on, and of

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Speaker 1: course we'll have a breakdown of the full picture after

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Speaker 1: that Thursday, July thirty first deadline. So I can't predict

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Speaker 1: the future, guys, I will say this is the most

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Speaker 1: challenging trade deadline I've ever covered as a beat writer

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Speaker 1: with this team, just because it's so unpredictable and the

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Speaker 1: decision is still undecided, makes it really hard to kind

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Speaker 1: of see where things are going. I would expect more

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Speaker 1: clarity in the next couple of days, but with this team,

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Speaker 1: this front office, who knows. All Right, that's another episode

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Speaker 1: of Cardinal Territory again. We're back with you on Sunday,

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Speaker 1: Bernie and I breaking it down right after the series

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Speaker 1: and thanks, as always for watching. We'll talk to you

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Speaker 1: very soon.

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Speaker 2: Jack,