Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and
Speaker 1: editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus
Speaker 1: global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: This is among the most read. You have two crypto
Speaker 2: lenders with links to South Korea halting withdrawals in quick successions.
Speaker 2: So it's just a reminder that there's still a lot
Speaker 2: of risks and a lot of clampdowns when it comes
Speaker 2: to crypto. So on that. In the new issue of
Speaker 2: Bloomberg BusinessWeek, Bloomberg News Digital Currencies and Venture Capitol reporter
Speaker 2: Hannah Miller writing about a relationship to Matt Miller.
Speaker 3: Right, No, no relationship that I know of.
Speaker 4: I mean it is I believe, the second most comedy
Speaker 4: in America.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, Hannah's writing about how crypto is getting
Speaker 2: his moment of clarity, but not the one that it wanted.
Speaker 2: It's a great story. She does us on a zooming
Speaker 2: our San Francisco bureau. Hanna, I don't know, have you
Speaker 2: done like you know, I don't know a genetic testing
Speaker 2: year to find out what is it?
Speaker 4: Answers. I'm on there, we would have gotten we would
Speaker 4: have been notified.
Speaker 5: I'm on there too. So no notification.
Speaker 2: All right. Well, one industry that's got a lot of
Speaker 2: notifications if it will, if you will, is crypto. So
Speaker 2: talk to us about your store, because I think they
Speaker 2: were looking for, like, you know, recognition, as you say,
Speaker 2: a moment of clarity. They didn't get exactly what they.
Speaker 5: Wanted, right, Yeah. For years, the crypto industry has just
Speaker 5: been clamoring for greater regulatory clarity, and they've wanted answers.
Speaker 5: They've wanted rules, they wanted guidelines. They said that they're
Speaker 5: working with regulators and that to them, there weren't clear
Speaker 5: processes in place. Well, now they've gotten their answer, and
Speaker 5: it's not a good one. You know, the SEC is
Speaker 5: hammering down on crypto. These lawsuits against Finance and coinbase
Speaker 5: show that the SEC thinks most of the tokens on
Speaker 5: these platforms are unregistered securities.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so are they right?
Speaker 4: Well, you know what, that's an argument that we that's
Speaker 4: a debate that we could have, right, Hannah, because I
Speaker 4: think in a lot of cases they seem more like
Speaker 4: commodities than securities, And you know, Matt Levine always cites
Speaker 4: the Howie test and it's kind of a fun debate.
Speaker 4: But it doesn't matter. As long as Gary Gensler and
Speaker 4: the SEC say their securities, they're going to use their
Speaker 4: power to shut down any businesses that are dealing in
Speaker 4: them without a license.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's correct. I mean we've seen a lot of
Speaker 5: you know, different regulators jocking for power here. You know,
Speaker 5: the SEC, the CFTC, you know, have claimed jurisdiction over crypto.
Speaker 5: But you know, the actions taken by the SEC show that,
Speaker 5: you know, they're serious about this, that they want to
Speaker 5: crack down on crypto, and that's really put the entire
Speaker 5: industry in unsteady ground in the US.
Speaker 2: So what does it mean. I mean, I've seen a
Speaker 2: lot of stories, yours included, like we are thinking about
Speaker 2: what it means for the US crypto industry because outside
Speaker 2: the United States, right, they're moving ahead.
Speaker 5: That's true. Yeah, I mean we've seen, you know, crypto
Speaker 5: hubs pop up in places like Singapore. Hong Kong is
Speaker 5: actually having a warmer reception of crypto. The UK is
Speaker 5: a big market that people are eyeing for coinbase. That's
Speaker 5: the largest international market that they want to expand into
Speaker 5: and also, you know in Europe we've seen legislation pass
Speaker 5: there that you know, the crypto industry sees is more
Speaker 5: welcoming to the industry versus the enforcement taken by the SEC.
Speaker 4: We did have a great story or I guess, a
Speaker 4: positive story for crypto across the wire earlier today. According
Speaker 4: to coindesk, black Rocks close to filing an application for
Speaker 4: a Bitcoin ETF and they would use coin Base as
Speaker 4: custody as custodian. What do you think about this, Hannah,
Speaker 4: I mean other people have tried and failed.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I mean in institutional investors, that is the
Speaker 5: key area for the crypto industry. You know, they want,
Speaker 5: they still want institutional approval and they feel like that
Speaker 5: could maybe help carry them through and keep them, you know,
Speaker 5: on more even footing in the US. So, yeah, this
Speaker 5: news about black Rock, you know, that's a welcome development
Speaker 5: both for the industry and for Coinbase. You know, this
Speaker 5: is a company that is publicly publicly traded in the US,
Speaker 5: you know, has seen its stock go up and down.
Speaker 5: So welcome developments like this are are I'm sure a
Speaker 5: booster morale there.
Speaker 4: That's funny, Carol, because you know, everybody's pushing so hard
Speaker 4: for a bitcoin etf, as Hannah says, you know, the
Speaker 4: thought being that it would kind of legitimize the asset
Speaker 4: class for investors. But there are already a number of
Speaker 4: crypto ETFs and they've done incredibly well this year, except
Speaker 4: for the fact that nobody has any money invested in them.
Speaker 4: I mean we're talking single digit millions.
Speaker 2: So how are they doing well?
Speaker 4: Then, well, that's the prices have gone, right, but there's
Speaker 4: no cloths.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so there's nothing into it. Well, I do
Speaker 2: wonder too, Hannah, you know, go back to you say
Speaker 2: institutional investors are clamoring for them. I mean, are pension
Speaker 2: funds like tell me, give me some like color on that.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I think there's still you know, sence among pension funds,
Speaker 5: you know, but we've seen players like Black Crop that
Speaker 5: been that they still spy opportunity in this space, and
Speaker 5: you know, that's that's helped crypto enthusiasts, you know, maintain
Speaker 5: a bullish attitude towards the the lassets that large. So
Speaker 5: it'll be interesting to see if more institutional players come
Speaker 5: out about crypto, if they're willing to, you know, publicly
Speaker 5: raise the flag that they're still interested in this space.
Speaker 2: One thing I want to ask you, with the lawsuits
Speaker 2: that we've seen by the SEC against Coinbase and Binance,
Speaker 2: they as you report, could drag on for years, and
Speaker 2: I do want to you cite a case against Ripple
Speaker 2: that is still ongoing that was back So I do
Speaker 2: wonder is that good for cryptle, you know, for crypto players?
Speaker 2: Is that bad?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 2: How do we see that?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 5: Many of the people I've been talking to in the
Speaker 5: industry have you know, taken it as a good thing
Speaker 5: that these lawsuits could drag on. You know that maybe
Speaker 5: something will change, something will shift during this time. You
Speaker 5: know that they'll actually you know, get a better outcome
Speaker 5: than just the SEC winning these cases. So that's people
Speaker 5: have really clung to that as a sign of hope.
Speaker 5: And you know they're trying to make a game plan here.
Speaker 5: They're you know, thinking about changing up their investment strategies.
Speaker 5: I've talked to a lot of vcs who are pulling
Speaker 5: back from token purchases as a form investment that they're
Speaker 5: just sticking to equity because there's this there is this
Speaker 5: uncertainty around tokens. So it'll be interesting to see how
Speaker 5: all this plays out how people you know, past the
Speaker 5: years here.
Speaker 4: One problem with these lawsuits is that you can really
Speaker 4: start to lose market share, right An analyst Dan Dola
Speaker 4: from The Zoo wrote today that Coinbase is starting to
Speaker 4: lose market share and crypto trading to Robin Hood.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: No, that that's correct. I mean the lawsuit is a
Speaker 5: big drawback for Coinbase, and you know, people are going
Speaker 5: to maybe turn to you know, more familiar name like
Speaker 5: Robin Hood, or you know, be willing to jump ship
Speaker 5: from Coinbase. So we'll see what happens. But that wasn't
Speaker 5: totally shocking to me.
Speaker 2: I mean, go back to where we started. Are we
Speaker 2: still figuring out exactly what cryptocurrencies are? Are they a commodity?
Speaker 2: Are they a collectible? Are they a currency? Are they
Speaker 2: a security?
Speaker 5: Yeah? I think we're still trying to figure that out.
Speaker 5: I've seen a lot of talk about pivoting from money
Speaker 5: crypto to tech crypto, so pulling away from like the
Speaker 5: financial aspects of crypto and looking at how blockchain technology
Speaker 5: can you know, provide use cases here. You know, you
Speaker 5: hear talk about Web three, which is the decentralized version
Speaker 5: of the Internet based on blockchain. So I think people
Speaker 5: have kind of tried to pull away from the financial
Speaker 5: scams and scandals that have just been continuing to rock
Speaker 5: the industry.
Speaker 2: You know, if she was a member of your family,
Speaker 2: she'd be a huge asset.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 2: I'm just going to say, we're just going to put
Speaker 2: that out there. Hannah, that was incredible, great story. Really,
Speaker 2: you know, so timely, Hannah Miller, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2: She is our Bloomberg News Digital Currencies and venture capital reporter,
Speaker 2: Hannah Miller. It's just a great reporter.
Speaker 4: Host of the Sam Bankman Freed podcast.
Speaker 2: She is, Oh my gosh, why don't we talk about that? Yeah,
Speaker 2: all right, anybody you know, download it, find it. It
Speaker 2: tells the story. Yeah, it's very because it's still going on.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's a pretty.
Speaker 4: Amazing any spoilers, Well, the whole case is still going
Speaker 4: on as well.
Speaker 2: And she's looking at like, who are these two idiots?
Speaker 2: I mean, oh my god.
Speaker 1: If you're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, catch
Speaker 1: us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen
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Speaker 2: We want to talk a little bit about something our
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business Week Pursuit's team att covered in a big
Speaker 2: way earlier this year. It's about the market for sleep
Speaker 2: tracking devices, some fourteen and a half billion, projected to
Speaker 2: reach more than sixty one billion dollars by twenty thirty.
Speaker 2: This as a staggering fifty percent of the population is
Speaker 2: sleep deprived. You are not.
Speaker 7: Well.
Speaker 4: Here's the thing. I slip on a sleep tracking device
Speaker 4: every night because over the past couple of years, I've
Speaker 4: had to wake up at two o'clock in the morning
Speaker 4: every day for my early show appearance, and so I
Speaker 4: wanted to make sure I was tracking my sleep and
Speaker 4: hopefully getting enough to survive. I only averaged about six
Speaker 4: hours a night over the past couple of years. But
Speaker 4: since since I've dropped that schedule a month ago, I've
Speaker 4: been averaging more than eight hours a night, and I
Speaker 4: feel fantastic, like I've come off of an acid trip,
Speaker 4: Like I can actually think clearly again. It's unbelievable, the
Speaker 4: difference in cognitive power between being sleep deprived and getting
Speaker 4: your full solid eight hours.
Speaker 2: Well, that's what we want to talk about with Adam Spiro.
Speaker 2: He's Professor in the Department of Mental Health at the
Speaker 2: Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported as you
Speaker 2: know by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg LP and
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Philanthropies. Adam joining us on zoom from Baltimore. Adam,
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more with Matt. If I get a
Speaker 2: good night's sleep, the world is mine. When I'm not,
Speaker 2: it feels like everything just hurt and everything's a problem.
Speaker 2: So talk to us about the importance of sleep and
Speaker 2: why we're not all getting better sleep and more sleep.
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 6: Sleep is connected to so many aspects of our health
Speaker 6: and wellness, from our mood and emotions, to our ability
Speaker 6: to think clearly, to aspects of our metabolism, to cardiovascular health.
Speaker 6: You name it, sleep is linked to it, and good
Speaker 6: sleep supports good health. More broadly, and yes, a substantial
Speaker 6: proportion of the US population is sleep deprived, and some
Speaker 6: of us are doing that because we do not have
Speaker 6: the opportunity to get the sleep we need due to schedules,
Speaker 6: demands on us from work, or the social environment like family.
Speaker 7: Or caregiving, or you name it.
Speaker 6: Some of us are not getting enough sleep because the
Speaker 6: neighborhoods we're in, or have noise pollution or light pollution.
Speaker 6: Some of us are not getting enough sleep because we
Speaker 6: have frank sleep disorders like a clinical insomnia disorder or
Speaker 6: sleep disordered breathing or sleep apnea. So there are many.
Speaker 6: But then there are others of us who voluntarily forego
Speaker 6: sleep because we want to binge the rest of that series,
Speaker 6: or we are on social media.
Speaker 7: So a lot of us are.
Speaker 4: Not that as Carol by the way, yeah, I'm Carol
Speaker 4: has Basically it's so funny because, like.
Speaker 2: You know, you need to have a schedule. I think
Speaker 2: about my dad. He was like so disciplined and up
Speaker 2: at the same time, went to bed at the same time.
Speaker 2: I'm not good about that. How how much of that
Speaker 2: is a bad thing? Like you need to have some
Speaker 2: kind of regular schedule.
Speaker 6: Well, so if you have a sleep problem, we recommend
Speaker 6: that you one of the first things that you do
Speaker 6: is set a good standard non varying wake up times,
Speaker 6: so you wake up at the same time every day
Speaker 6: if you.
Speaker 7: Have insomnia, for example, and that really supports good sleep health.
Speaker 4: It is really important, all right, So we wanted to
Speaker 4: talk about the link between sleep problems and Alzheimer's disease
Speaker 4: or sleep problems and dementia. And I wonder if it's
Speaker 4: kind of a chicken and egg thing. Do people who
Speaker 4: have sleep problems are they more likely to develop dementia
Speaker 4: or Alzheimer's disease, Or is it people who already have
Speaker 4: Alzheimer's disease or already experienced dementia they then have sleep problems.
Speaker 7: Well, I think that you hit the nail on the
Speaker 7: head there.
Speaker 6: It's a bi directional relationship, is how we're really thinking
Speaker 6: about it these days. Where we used to think when
Speaker 6: we thought about sleep in Alzheimer's disease, we used to
Speaker 6: think that sleep disturbances happened in people with Alzheimer's disease
Speaker 6: because their brains changed, and people who either care for
Speaker 6: people with Alzheimer's disease or clinicians who work with them,
Speaker 6: family members who might have someone with Alzheimer's disease in
Speaker 6: the house become quite aware of the significant sleep disturbance
Speaker 6: that is really common in that population. So that was
Speaker 6: the direction that people first thought about, But really, over
Speaker 6: the last decade or so a little more than that,
Speaker 6: now people have really come to realize that sleep disturbance
Speaker 6: is associated with an increased risk for dementia and could
Speaker 6: well play a causal role in promoting dementia and Alzheimer's
Speaker 6: disease in particular.
Speaker 4: All right, so people who have no excuses are in college.
Speaker 4: If you don't have to be at work at five
Speaker 4: o'clock in the morning, you should put down your Twitter,
Speaker 4: stop watching your Netflix, and go to sleep.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's right, he's right. I get the No, it's
Speaker 2: just well, why is it that though we have a
Speaker 2: harder time falling asleep as we get older, and like
Speaker 2: I was a kid, would sleep until eleven or noon
Speaker 2: on a Saturday. You know easily, I can't do that anymore.
Speaker 6: Well, so you were talking about two different things which
Speaker 6: are really interesting. So we do notice and oftentimes you
Speaker 6: mentioned when you were a kid. Teenagers notoriously get mislabeled
Speaker 6: as because what they end up doing is they can
Speaker 6: sleep a really long time. And when we're younger that
Speaker 6: our need for sleep is greater. And the clock in
Speaker 6: our brain that basically tells us when to sleep and
Speaker 6: when to be awake is basically telling us to go
Speaker 6: to bed later and to wake up later. It's what
Speaker 6: we call a circadian phase delay and that is one
Speaker 6: of the reasons that there's been a big push nationally
Speaker 6: by sleep advocates to move school start times later. But
Speaker 6: you asked another question, which is as you get older,
Speaker 6: and I assume you didn't need from child adolescents per se.
Speaker 2: I was asking this for Matt because as he gets older.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry for Adam.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well me too. But as people get older, from
Speaker 6: middle aged to older adulthood, they tend to there are
Speaker 6: some changes that we believe just happened as part of
Speaker 6: the aging process, where our short sleep gets a bit shorter,
Speaker 6: a bit more fragmented, and it becomes import lighter. We
Speaker 6: don't know as much of that deep restorative sleep. It's
Speaker 6: harder for us to get and we think that that
Speaker 6: happens even in the absence of medical conditions. Chronuct medical conditions.
Speaker 6: But way more people have sleep problems than would be
Speaker 6: accounted for by those normal age related sleep changes when
Speaker 6: you look at older adults, and really the big drivers
Speaker 6: of those we think are medical problems and medications we
Speaker 6: take for those problems. That's a big driver of why
Speaker 6: we develop them, but it's not the only driver.
Speaker 4: What do you think about sleep trackers? By the way,
Speaker 4: we opened up talking about you know, I wear an
Speaker 4: Apple Watch, but there are a number of other products
Speaker 4: out there that purportedly track sleep. I think, look looking
Speaker 4: at the.
Speaker 8: Data and.
Speaker 4: Assessing, you know, my experience with it, the Apple Watch
Speaker 4: does a pretty good job. But I noticed I only
Speaker 4: go into deep sleep for the first, you know, thirty
Speaker 4: forty minutes of the night, and then I never go
Speaker 4: back there again. And I don't know if if that's
Speaker 4: because the watch isn't very good at tracking the stages
Speaker 4: of sleep, or because I really only had experienced deep
Speaker 4: sleep at the beginning of my eight hours.
Speaker 7: So this is really a great point. There are two
Speaker 7: sort of issues here.
Speaker 6: First of all, we do under normal condition spend more
Speaker 6: time in deep sleep in the first part of the
Speaker 6: night and less and less as the night wears on.
Speaker 6: And conversely, we spend an increasing amount of sleep in
Speaker 6: rem sleep when we do most of our dreaming as
Speaker 6: the night goes on. So your watch might be right
Speaker 6: about you spending more in the early part than in
Speaker 6: the late part. But I will say this about sleep trackers.
Speaker 6: The only way that you can definitively tell if someone
Speaker 6: is awake or asleep is by putting electrodes or some
Speaker 6: sort of a sensor on their head so that you
Speaker 6: can detect electrical signals from the brain. That is the definitive,
Speaker 6: gold standard measure of sleep. In the absence of that,
Speaker 6: we cannot rely solely on devices for truth.
Speaker 7: For ground truth.
Speaker 6: This is isn't awake or asleep, right, So that being said,
Speaker 6: for decades now, sleep researchers have relied on devices that
Speaker 6: we've referred to as actigraphs a lot of the time.
Speaker 6: And these are accelerometers that you would wear on your
Speaker 6: wrist and they used to be clunky analog things, and
Speaker 6: they've developed to be quite sleek and now and they
Speaker 6: basically are accelerometers that and they capitalize on the fact
Speaker 6: that people and animals as well, by the way, move
Speaker 6: less when they're sleeping in general. Yeah, right, and so yeah,
Speaker 6: but those devices, those trackers, they're not all created equal.
Speaker 6: I would put it that way and say, so that's
Speaker 6: something to consider.
Speaker 4: I need to get some brain.
Speaker 2: Electro All right, You've got to come back soon because
Speaker 2: I have still a million questions. So Adam, I feel
Speaker 2: like it just relates. We all can relate to this.
Speaker 2: Adam really enjoyed it. Adam Spira a professor in the
Speaker 2: Department of Mental Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of
Speaker 2: Public Health, joining us from Baltimore. I mean, when I
Speaker 2: go to sleep, I'm like head to toe with stuff.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about it later. Maybe what.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
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Speaker 1: Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 2: You might remember from the last monthly read on the
Speaker 2: US labor market, it showed that the unemployment rate increased
Speaker 2: for black people from April to May from four point
Speaker 2: seven percent to five point six percent. Black women were
Speaker 2: the most affected, specifically those who work in the public sector. Again,
Speaker 2: according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, They're unemployment rate
Speaker 2: increased from four point four percent in April to five
Speaker 2: point three percent in May. That's a pretty big jump.
Speaker 2: And matth there's a new documentary that tracks the paths
Speaker 2: of three black women, all single mothers, who found a
Speaker 2: better way forward and jobs in the process. Check it out.
Speaker 2: We want them to find a job, and then a
Speaker 2: better job, and then a career.
Speaker 5: To imagine myself in a career of posts to just
Speaker 5: the job was definitely far fetched.
Speaker 1: My kid's very proud of me.
Speaker 2: I know that I was working very hard district change.
Speaker 6: Oh.
Speaker 1: I like the journey has changed my life in a
Speaker 1: way that I could never invasion.
Speaker 2: All right again, a new short documentary film. We want
Speaker 2: to get to the executive producer of video content development
Speaker 2: and production at the workforce focused nonprofit Working Nation. She's
Speaker 2: director of the short, Melissa Panzer. She's with us on
Speaker 2: Zoom from Los Angeles. And forgive me they were three
Speaker 2: women of color. I just want to clarify that. Melissa.
Speaker 2: Good to have you here with Matt and myself here.
Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit about this documentary. We have,
Speaker 2: of course heard a little clip, but tell us about
Speaker 2: these three women.
Speaker 4: Sure well.
Speaker 8: First of all, Carol, Matt, thanks so much for having
Speaker 8: me this afternoon. This was These women are just an
Speaker 8: incredible story, all three of them. There's one woman who
Speaker 8: immigrated from Jordan who's featured in the film. She didn't
Speaker 8: speak any English when she arrived in the United States.
Speaker 8: She lived it in domestic Island's shelter for forty two days.
Speaker 8: Upon arrival, her husband kicked her and her children out
Speaker 8: of their home when it was really, really a horrible
Speaker 8: situation for her, and she learned English and got herself
Speaker 8: educated and was able to go to this Goodwill program,
Speaker 8: and we feature her in our story, and you know,
Speaker 8: we feature her and two other women of color, both black,
Speaker 8: who also just fell on really hard times and they
Speaker 8: all found this program that gave them short term, you know,
Speaker 8: quick credentials to get access to really really remarkable jobs,
Speaker 8: and it was really an opportunity for them to change
Speaker 8: the lives of their families, their children. They're all single.
Speaker 8: And now at the end, at the end of the film,
Speaker 8: you hear one of them saying, you know, how much
Speaker 8: money do you make now? And they're joking around, and
Speaker 8: it's quite a bit.
Speaker 4: It's quite a bit.
Speaker 8: I mean, you know, they're making it at least eighty
Speaker 8: thousand dollars a year kind of thing.
Speaker 2: That's quite a turnaround. Melissa tell us about this program
Speaker 2: with good Will that you guys are doing. Exactly what
Speaker 2: are what's the reskilling that's going on?
Speaker 8: Yeah, So it's it training program that Google supports and
Speaker 8: Coursera is it helps with the curriculum, and it's offered
Speaker 8: at good Wills around the country. We filmed in Nashville,
Speaker 8: and it's really short term certifications that gets access, that
Speaker 8: gets folks access who maybe don't have the kind of
Speaker 8: IT training that you'd expect to need to go into
Speaker 8: one of these IT jobs. And it's free as long
Speaker 8: as you qualify for it.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's really an incredible story, a story of
Speaker 4: hope for anyone. Right it's the Goodwill Digital Career Accelerator.
Speaker 4: Is it only accessible now to women or women of color?
Speaker 4: Or can anyone skill up with this program?
Speaker 8: No, I'm pretty sure you have to meet a you
Speaker 8: have to be under a certain financial sector to access
Speaker 8: the program for free. But men, women, people of color,
Speaker 8: white folks, it really doesn't matter.
Speaker 4: And I mean, does it just teach you skills to
Speaker 4: learn a specific job. Does it teach you general skills
Speaker 4: and then you go and.
Speaker 7: Apply for jobs.
Speaker 4: Does it help you do the application for jobs as well?
Speaker 4: Do you have programs with employers? Yeah?
Speaker 8: So, Goodwill something I learned while I was filming this documentary.
Speaker 8: Goodwill really sees themselves as a handholder from the beginning
Speaker 8: to the end so of your life. Once you enter
Speaker 8: a Goodwill job center, you are a client of Goodwill
Speaker 8: for forever, and so they help. Once you've graduated the
Speaker 8: program and you have your certification, they most certainly help
Speaker 8: you with job placement. If that job doesn't work out
Speaker 8: and you need their health, you go right back and
Speaker 8: they'll help you again again.
Speaker 2: Excuse me.
Speaker 8: And for example in this piece, two of the women,
Speaker 8: Shahira and Kara, they both work for Accenture and that's
Speaker 8: by way of a relationship that Goodwill has with the
Speaker 8: local eccentric offices in Nashville.
Speaker 2: Well, I think about what you guys do at Working
Speaker 2: Nation right it's looking at what are some of the
Speaker 2: big workforce issues. And right now we continue to see
Speaker 2: despite you know, we got jobless claims today, we still
Speaker 2: see a tight labor force. You bring out any leader
Speaker 2: and that's what they're going to talk about. I'm still
Speaker 2: kind of fighting for talent here. Earlier in the week
Speaker 2: we talked about nurses and the shortages there, the dynamic
Speaker 2: and fighting for them. But I do wonder from what
Speaker 2: I understand. The Goodwill Digital Career Accelerator, done in a
Speaker 2: partnership with Google. They provided twenty nine million in funding
Speaker 2: in grants from Google dot Org. But I do you
Speaker 2: know here we are spending We're going to get into
Speaker 2: our Bloomberg BusinessWeek magazine, which is all about artificial intelligence.
Speaker 2: And you know, we've heard people on our air, you know,
Speaker 2: talking about if you are in any way trained in
Speaker 2: the world of AI or coder or what have you,
Speaker 2: you are in demand. But Google and other high tech
Speaker 2: firms have got to be increasingly and continuing to think
Speaker 2: about their workforce. Going phote in a program like this
Speaker 2: can certainly help them in terms of training individuals with
Speaker 2: the right skills.
Speaker 8: Yes, one hundred percent. I mean no matter what happens
Speaker 8: in the future, as we transition into a new age
Speaker 8: of digital technologies with AI as an example, will always
Speaker 8: need people who are well at least for right now.
Speaker 8: We'll need people who are managing those technologies and thinking
Speaker 8: bigger and better and something we keep hearing. And the
Speaker 8: reason I think programs like this giving access and accessibility
Speaker 8: to the women like Shakira and Kara and Chelsea is
Speaker 8: because you only know what you know, and you know,
Speaker 8: underprivileged black women and women of color know what they know,
Speaker 8: and so they're giving the it world access and eyes
Speaker 8: into perhaps things that they aren't thinking about when they're
Speaker 8: building new technologies.
Speaker 2: Right, exactly, right. If you start to kind of open
Speaker 2: up a window and say, hey, listen, if you do this,
Speaker 2: here's what you can kind of move towards, it's something
Speaker 2: that they probably weren't familiar with. Melissa, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Really appreciate it. Melissa Panser, she's executive producer of video
Speaker 2: content development and production over at Working Nation, as we said,
Speaker 2: the nonprofit, and they do focus on workforce solutions. Joining
Speaker 2: us on Zoom from Los Angeles. And again, of course
Speaker 2: that short documentary interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, very interesting stuff and I think provides real hope.
Speaker 4: It's great that they have programs like this, and I
Speaker 4: love to watch documentaries like this. So congratulations to Melissa.
Speaker 1: I really do like them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think about it. I feel like for
Speaker 2: years two we talk increasingly about, you know, the tech sector.
Speaker 2: They're thinking about their workforce and like tapping into you know,
Speaker 2: middle schools, high schools to make sure kids have the
Speaker 2: right training. You are listening and watching Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 2: on ThisDay, Carol Master, Matt Miller. This is Bloomberg Brother.
Speaker 3: Mack a journal.
Speaker 2: Now about you let me drive?
Speaker 8: Oh no, no, no, no, who's going to drive?
Speaker 5: Honey?
Speaker 2: Please, I'll do Gravel's I want to drive.
Speaker 7: It's good question.
Speaker 1: This is the drive to the clothes Well Bernd yelling
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: All right, everybody, let's get to it. We've got just
Speaker 2: about seventeen and a half minutes left in today's session
Speaker 2: and we've got a stock rally that it's not just
Speaker 2: mad about artificial intelligence.
Speaker 4: No, it seems to be about the snacks aside. Sorry,
Speaker 4: I have so many snacks in front of my microphone
Speaker 4: on but that sometimes any like.
Speaker 2: Having a toddler round. It's like I'm hungry.
Speaker 4: I just need to growing.
Speaker 2: Boy you are yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 8: So yeah no.
Speaker 4: There there seem to be a lot more drivers of
Speaker 4: the rally, and oddly the FED is part of that,
Speaker 4: even though the dock plot suggests they're going to raise
Speaker 4: rates two more times.
Speaker 2: Right, right, no rate cuts folks this year. All right,
Speaker 2: so let's see what our guest has to stay. Brian
Speaker 2: Railing is with us. He's head of Global fixed income
Speaker 2: strategy at Wells Fargo Investment Institute, based in Saint Louis.
Speaker 2: Here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio at Bloomberg Headquarters
Speaker 2: in New York City. Brian, it is good to have
Speaker 2: you here with us. Good to see the market spreading
Speaker 2: out breath in terms of gains. I think Gena Martin Adams,
Speaker 2: did you say sixty stocks in the s and P
Speaker 2: five hundred hitting above two hundred day moving averages. You
Speaker 2: weren't listening because you were getting stacks. Let's go to Brian.
Speaker 2: Let's go to Brian. So what do you make though
Speaker 2: we are widing out in terms of breath?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think, quite frankly, the stock market.
Speaker 3: I'm a fixed income god, but the stock market to
Speaker 3: me seems to be you know, it's kind of in
Speaker 3: a summer fling. Quite frankly. Bad news is good news.
Speaker 3: Good news is good news. Any type of news is
Speaker 3: good news. It just wants to go up. But I
Speaker 3: think if you look under the surface, you look at
Speaker 3: what the FEDS saying, I don't know how long it's
Speaker 3: gonna last. Maybe maybe it can last through the summer,
Speaker 3: but I don't think it is sustainable. The bond market
Speaker 3: taken this stock market.
Speaker 2: It's like you guys compete with each other, right, like
Speaker 2: when you know bonds are yielding like they have, right,
Speaker 2: they're looking pretty attractive without maybe the risk elements.
Speaker 3: Exactly, very attractive without the risk. But also you look
Speaker 3: at what the bond market's saying. The yield curve is
Speaker 3: still inverted, and the inversion is version.
Speaker 4: How many times has it happened every time the yield
Speaker 4: curve inverts like this, we have a recession?
Speaker 2: No, I thought, it's like you have to have to
Speaker 2: have a recession, you have to have an inverted yield curve,
Speaker 2: But every time it inverts doesn't necessarily.
Speaker 3: Almost always almost And this is this is a lot, right,
Speaker 3: this is this is big. We're almost back to the
Speaker 3: just look at.
Speaker 2: Could they touch a go recession? Couldn't it?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean I don't think so, but I think
Speaker 3: that is the Goldilock scenario, that that the market and
Speaker 3: again good news is good news, bad news is good
Speaker 3: good news, you know. I mean, I don't know how
Speaker 3: you could look at that f o MC statement and
Speaker 3: the press conference yesterday and come come come away doing
Speaker 3: high fives like it seems like the equity markets day.
Speaker 4: Well, we're still trying to figure it out, right, yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean they the dot plot suggest they are going
Speaker 4: to hike two more times, and before yesterday the argument
Speaker 4: was definitely one more hike and that was it. Plus
Speaker 4: we were still pricing in cuts this year now and
Speaker 4: yesterday Powell, I don't know if he misspoke or if
Speaker 4: he's just trying to drive a point home, but he said,
Speaker 4: you're talking about a couple of years folks before we cut.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. I mean this ends in in one of two
Speaker 3: ways in my opinion. Either the Fed has to continue
Speaker 3: to hike to bring inflation under control and keep rates high.
Speaker 3: I don't think that's a great outcome for the stock market,
Speaker 3: or if the market is right, because the market is
Speaker 3: still you know, the market's not pricing in these additional
Speaker 3: hikes that the market if.
Speaker 2: You look out for their u the pond market ecomic
Speaker 2: both both okay both.
Speaker 3: And if you look out, you know, you start to
Speaker 3: see in the future to start to see some cuts
Speaker 3: next year, et cetera. Right, which, of course the FEDS
Speaker 3: that they're not doing. So either you know that scenario
Speaker 3: in or scenary too, something breaks and that's how you
Speaker 3: get the Fed to start cutting rates and just great news, right,
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, exactly, we got more.
Speaker 4: Banks failing and it moves behind Regional to Wall Street,
Speaker 4: then you're in real trouble exactly.
Speaker 3: So that you know, that's why I think we're kind
Speaker 3: of in what I'll call summer fling.
Speaker 2: What are the flows that you're seeing, Well, you know
Speaker 2: you're seeing so a lot of investors coming up in
Speaker 2: Saint Brian. I want more exposure of the fixed income side.
Speaker 3: You know, we had a lot of that earlier in
Speaker 3: the year. You're seeing much less. Obviously, you're seeing the
Speaker 3: bearish sentiment decrease. People I think are kind of tired
Speaker 3: of hearing about recession and bearish and so you know,
Speaker 3: it looks like the you know, the AI started it,
Speaker 3: and it looks like it's just back to buying equities
Speaker 3: for now. But again, again, I'm a bond guy. But
Speaker 3: you know, you've seen earnings start to come down, right,
Speaker 3: I mean, I think they're they've been falling a little
Speaker 3: bit kind of I don't want to call it.
Speaker 2: So our equity analysts just talked about margin stabilization and improvement,
Speaker 2: and we are talking about you look at some of
Speaker 2: the inflationary numbers, right, some of the material costs are
Speaker 2: coming down for companies and that's a good thing. Okay,
Speaker 2: but you don't buy it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I just don't see how sustainable if inflation
Speaker 3: is going to come down. If it's sustainable, then inflation
Speaker 3: is going to stay elevated, and then the Fed has
Speaker 3: to go much harder than the markets think.
Speaker 4: Can I ask you yesterday we're talking about the Ken
Speaker 4: Griffin story. He said he's embracing private credit, for example,
Speaker 4: much yield and high yield as well as we get
Speaker 4: closer to a recession. Does that make sense? If you're
Speaker 4: worried of a recession next year, do you want to
Speaker 4: be buying private credit and high yield debt.
Speaker 3: It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
Speaker 3: I mean, we are unfavorable on credit. I mean, credit
Speaker 3: spreads are near kind of their tights here for in
Speaker 3: the trading range like around four hundred or so, depending
Speaker 3: on what index you use. You know, it makes no
Speaker 3: sense to me. Again, if you're going to have a
Speaker 3: recession or you know you're gonna can tinue to have
Speaker 3: rates move higher on the short end, making borrowing costs
Speaker 3: more expensive. You know, I just don't think the reward
Speaker 3: is worth the risk. Quite frankly, I have to be
Speaker 3: compensated much better.
Speaker 2: So where do you want to go. Well, in the
Speaker 2: fixed income world.
Speaker 3: Sure, short term is the easy place to hang out.
Speaker 3: You're getting paid great to hang out in the short end.
Speaker 9: So US treasuries for the most part US Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 9: because you start to get you know, developed, you start
Speaker 9: to have the currency currency play, and it's not nearly
Speaker 9: as pure.
Speaker 3: You know, we got very aggressive last October around four
Speaker 3: and a quarter on long bonds. We're seeing rates start
Speaker 3: to kind of tick back close to there. So if
Speaker 3: we saw you know, tens go four to four and
Speaker 3: a quarter, you know, I would be locking that in
Speaker 3: all day long.
Speaker 2: Because do you think it's going to go for in
Speaker 2: a quarter?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think of the FED, which I do think
Speaker 3: the Fed you're talking, yeah, because I think the FED
Speaker 3: is going to have to hike hike more, just like
Speaker 3: they've said, and that should bring tens up a little bit,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, it just should lift the curve
Speaker 3: a little bit. And to me, locking in those rates,
Speaker 3: if you believe the FED is going to bring inflation
Speaker 3: back down to two percent, you know, locking in.
Speaker 4: Four to four in a quarter is fantastic.
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly. So it depends if you believe the FED
Speaker 3: or not. I believe the FED. I believe there's nothing
Speaker 3: more important to them than bringing inflation back down.
Speaker 2: Do you think that two percent target is real and
Speaker 2: they're going to get there?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 6: It was.
Speaker 3: Again the market doesn't believe. The market's like, oh, maybe
Speaker 3: they'll change their mind. They'll be at the high two's,
Speaker 3: there'll be three something exactly. I don't think so. Again,
Speaker 3: I think the market's got it wrong. I really do
Speaker 3: believe the FED is going to get inflation back down
Speaker 3: to their targets. They are all their credibility relies on it.
Speaker 4: He does seem so serious about it. He doesn't want
Speaker 4: to repeat the mistakes.
Speaker 2: And a fixed income dude, though sometimes.
Speaker 3: Right it is especially much harder than this.
Speaker 2: It's hard being anything. Last year, it feels like, nice
Speaker 2: to have you here, Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Safe travels. What do they talk about in Saint Louis
Speaker 2: got fifteen seconds? What's top of mind? Do they are
Speaker 2: they obsessed with the FED like we are?
Speaker 3: Well, I think if you're in front and on Saint Louis,
Speaker 3: it's the cards. They're not good, you're awfme. So that
Speaker 3: is the topic of conversation and not in.
Speaker 2: A good way all right, Brian Railings, safe job as
Speaker 2: head of Global fixed income Strategy. Will's part of your
Speaker 2: investment instituted here in our interactive brokers studio you're listening
Speaker 2: to launching the Bloomberg Business Screen.
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