1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,000 Speaker 1: So what would it do in your mind if I 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: was to tell you that I am a legal marijuana 3 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: patient in the state of Connecticut. From futuro media, it's Latino, USA. 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: I'm Maria in no Josa today. The argument for decriminalization 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: to end the War on drugs. In the summer of 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, President Richard Nixon declared US so called 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: War on drugs. 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 2: But I consider this problem so urgent. I also found 9 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 2: that it was scattered so much throughout the government, with 10 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: so much conflict without coordination, that it had to be 11 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: brought into the White House, so that we have not 12 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 2: only the responsibility, but the authority to see that we 13 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: wage this defensive effectively in an a coordinated way. 14 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: The goal was to curb the use of a substances 15 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: by levying increased police presence, classifying a number of drugs 16 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: at the federal level, and by making longer prison sentences 17 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: mandatory for the use and distribution of narcotics. Nearing the 18 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: fiftieth anniversary of that decision, the war on drugs is 19 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: still very much alive. Millions of people have been incarcerated 20 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: from broken windows policing and the advent of stop and 21 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: frisk to no knock warrants, and the militarization of local 22 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: police departments. All of this born from the so called 23 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: War on drugs, and all have been used to primarily 24 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: target communities of color. Advocates for reform have long argued 25 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: that punitive policies have not only failed to reduce the 26 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: flow of drugs the country, but also strengthened illicit drug markets, 27 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: creating risky and unhealthy conditions for people who choose to 28 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: use drugs. Meanwhile, more than seventy thousand people died last 29 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: year alone as a result of drug overdoses. The US 30 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: is clearly failing in the War on drugs, and advocates 31 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 1: say it's because we've gone about it completely the wrong 32 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,399 Speaker 1: way by focusing on the criminal element of drug use 33 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: instead of seeing it through a lens of health care 34 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,839 Speaker 1: access and social justice. To talk about this issue, we're 35 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: joined by Maritzaperees, who's the director of the Office of 36 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: National Affairs at the Drug Policy Alliance in Washington, d C. 37 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,119 Speaker 1: She leads the organization's federal work to end the War 38 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: on drugs. Maritzaperees, Welcome to Latino, USA. 39 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here with you today. 40 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: So recently a lot has been happening with drug decriminalization. 41 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: But before we get into that, let's take a few 42 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: steps back and set the picture for how we got 43 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,399 Speaker 1: to this place. And this is a place where, for example, 44 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: someone could be caught in possession of a small amount 45 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: of marijuana and they could be sentenced to spend the 46 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: rest of their life in prison in some parts of 47 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: the country. 48 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 3: Still, yes, sadly that's the case. 49 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,839 Speaker 4: Drug enforcement continues to be a driver of mass incarceration. 50 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 4: In fact, one person is arrested every twenty three seconds 51 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 4: for simple drug possession. So it continues to be a 52 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 4: big feeder into not just the criminal justice system. But 53 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 4: you have to think of all of the collateral consequences. 54 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 4: For instance, a conviction can make it harder for you 55 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 4: to put your life back on track, to go to school, 56 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 4: to obtain or even get a job in the first place, 57 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 4: to keep a roof over your head, to feed your family. 58 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 4: So it continues to be something that is a huge 59 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 4: detriment in a lot of people's lives. Many drugs that 60 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 4: are illegal today, such as marijuana, opium, coc psychedelics, they've 61 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 4: been used for thousands of years, For both medical and 62 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 4: spiritual purposes. 63 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 3: But we also know. 64 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 4: That this country has a long history of perpetuating a 65 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 4: racialized drug war. I think that something that a lot 66 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 4: of people might not know is that the first anti 67 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 4: drug laws in the United States were actually built specifically 68 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 4: to criminalize people of color. Starting with the eighteen seventies, 69 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 4: we saw laws targeting Chinese immigrants in California. This is 70 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 4: the first time we saw anti opim laws pop around. 71 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: Are you saying that basically opium was around and used 72 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: once you had the arrival of men and women from 73 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: China who were actually working on the railroad, that that's 74 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: when it becomes a problem. 75 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. 76 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 4: So what we started to see around the eighteen hundreds 77 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 4: was that anti drug laws started to pop up, specifically. 78 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 3: Created to target certain communities of color. 79 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 4: In the eighteen seventies, we saw the rise of the 80 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 4: first anti drug laws, and those drugs were anti opim 81 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 4: laws that were targeted at Chinese immigrants. Soon after that, 82 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 4: in the nineteen hundreds, in the South, we saw that 83 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 4: cocaine became illegal and that was related to target African 84 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 4: American men who were using the substance. And then, of 85 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 4: course in the nineteen thirties, you saw that Mexican and 86 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 4: Mexican Americans were criminalized for marijuana use. Of course, you know, 87 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 4: when we talk about marijuana, we can't ignore the fact 88 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 4: that marijuana itself was a term that was developed to 89 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 4: criminalize Mexican Americans and Mexicans who were using the plant. 90 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 4: And this happened with the first individual who was responsible 91 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 4: for drug enforcement. 92 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 3: In the US. 93 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 4: But these were all intentional decisions by the government to 94 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 4: criminalize communities of color, to really deject people who were 95 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 4: not wanted in the society. And you know, unfortunately, those 96 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 4: policy decisions still play out today because drug use continues 97 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 4: to be something that there's a lot of hysteria around, 98 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 4: and people of color continued to be disproportionately enforced for 99 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 4: drug use and drug activity, even though all the data 100 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 4: tells us that black and brown individual jewels use drugs 101 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 4: at similar rates and sometimes even lower rates than white individuals. 102 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: For a moment, I want to speak specifically about what 103 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: you just alluded to, which is the term marijuana and 104 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: the racism behind the rebranding of the cannabis plant as marijuana. 105 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: So what's the relationship here. 106 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 4: You know, the actual scientific name for the plant that 107 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 4: we know as marijuana is cannabis. 108 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 3: But in the nineteen thirties, the. 109 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 4: Government changed the federal code to label cannabis as marijuana, 110 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 4: and that's when we started to first see these marijuana 111 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 4: laws get on the books. And the decision behind that 112 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 4: was made because folks wanted to criminalize Mexican Americans and 113 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 4: Mexican migrants who were using the plant. 114 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 1: Right. I was in high school when I watched Reefer Madness. 115 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,559 Speaker 5: These high school boys and girls are having a hop 116 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 5: at the local soda fountain. Innocently they dance, innocent of 117 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 5: a new and deadly menace lurking behind closed doors, marijuana, 118 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 5: the burning weed when its roots in hell. 119 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: All right, So context. Reefer Madness was a super famous 120 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: propaganda film that was released in the nineteen thirties, and 121 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: it basically depicts people who are smoking pot as descending 122 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: into uncontrollable madness from pot, you know, having strange hallucinations, 123 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: even committing murder. So it was pretty much over the top. 124 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 5: Smoking the soul destroying reefer. They find a moment's pleasure, 125 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 5: but at a terrible price debauchery, violence, murder, suicide. 126 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: The narrative was that if you smoke pot. If you 127 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: smoke marijuana, you're going to lose your mind and you 128 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: will never, never, never come back. 129 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 4: But also they wanted to make it sound scary. You know, 130 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 4: throw a Spanish name on it and it'll make it 131 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 4: sound foreign and something that could potentially be dangerous. 132 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 3: And unfortunately it kind of worked. 133 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 4: Because what we see is that we've had decades of 134 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 4: marijuana enforcement. 135 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: Can we talk about the Nixon administration for a moment. 136 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: The United States was actually a fascinating place in the 137 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: late nineteen sixties when he's elected president. There was the 138 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: advent of psychedelic drugs. There was LSD, there was a 139 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: lot of marijuana. 140 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 2: America's public enemy Number one in the United States is 141 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 2: drug abuse. 142 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: There was woodstock, there was protest everywhere. It was very 143 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: in some ways reminiscent of twenty twenty. What is it 144 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: that Nixon does and how does this impact what ends 145 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: up happening regarding drugs in the United States. 146 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 4: You know, his administration really coined to the term the 147 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 4: War on Drugs, and what that really meant was that 148 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,239 Speaker 4: they were going to really up enforcement. 149 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: It is necessary to wage a new all out offense. 150 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 3: Shive. 151 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 2: I have asked the Congress to provide the legislative authority 152 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 2: and the funds to fuel as kind of an offensive. 153 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 4: Specifically in communities of color, low income communities, communities that 154 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,719 Speaker 4: were agitating as the administration saw, but really communities that 155 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 4: were asking for better conditions and the rights and all 156 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 4: of that. We learned years later that one of his 157 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 4: closest advisors admitted as much. 158 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 6: Forbes reports on a remark by a former Nixon aide 159 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 6: hinting that the war on drugs had a hidden purpose, 160 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 6: that President Nixon saw the drug crackdown as a way 161 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 6: to arrest blacks and anti war protesters. Erlkman also claimed 162 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,479 Speaker 6: that the White House knew they were lying about drugs. 163 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 7: So now here's Erlkman. In his own works, he says, 164 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 7: the Nixon campaign in nineteen sixty eight and the Nixon 165 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 7: White House after that had two enemies, the anti war 166 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 7: left and black people. You understand what I'm saying. We 167 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 7: knew we couldn't make it legal to be either against 168 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 7: the war or black. But by getting the public to 169 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 7: associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and 170 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 7: then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. 171 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,719 Speaker 4: That was the first time that we really saw a dedicated, 172 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 4: coordinated government response on the drug enforcement side of things, 173 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 4: and unfortunately every administration that followed chose to do the 174 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 4: same thing, where you know, they overly invested in the 175 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 4: enforcement piece, but neglected and continue to neglect the public 176 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 4: health aspect of things. If you are using drugs problematically, 177 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 4: it's really hard to find responsive and effective harm reduction 178 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 4: services and treatment. And part of that is because we 179 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 4: continue to waste billions of dollars on the enforcement side, 180 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 4: and we know that the enforcement side has not reduced 181 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 4: the supply of drugs, has not reduced community safety or 182 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 4: individual safety. People are still, you know, experiencing overdose. What 183 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 4: it has done is that it's perpetuated mass criminalization and 184 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 4: mass incarceration. We lead the world in the number of 185 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 4: people that we jail in incarce rate two point three 186 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 4: million people behind bars in the freest nation on earth, 187 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 4: and a lot of that is largely due to this 188 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 4: country's obsession and continued investment in the war on drugs. 189 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: But now there is increased conversation around decriminalization. So let's 190 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: just get our terms clear. So there's decriminalization and there's legalization. 191 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: So just parse that out for us by RITA. 192 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 4: People use decriminalization and legalization interchangeably sometimes, but in fact 193 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 4: they don't mean the same thing. So when we're talking 194 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 4: about decriminalizing a substance, we usually mean removing criminal penalties 195 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 4: associated with the drug, And when we're talking about legalization, 196 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 4: we usually mean creating some sort of regulated market or 197 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 4: a infrastructure to sell the substance and make sure that 198 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 4: people have access to the substance. So, you know, what 199 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 4: we're seeing with marijuana, for example, a lot of states 200 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 4: have chosen to decriminalize marijuana. Less have chosen to legalize, 201 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 4: which means, you know, they're fully committed to a regulated market. 202 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about what happened 203 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: in the last presidential election, because actually several states voted 204 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: to decriminalize marijuana. So what's the update. 205 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 4: Many states have voted to decriminalize or legalize marijuana, yet 206 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 4: it remains a Schedule one drug at the federal level, 207 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 4: so there's some dysfunction there. But you know, I think 208 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 4: the interesting thing was that this past November we did 209 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 4: see voters come out very strongly in favor of marijuana legalization, 210 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 4: which you know, to people who have been doing this 211 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 4: work wasn't really a surprise because Pollane has told us 212 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 4: for you know, at least the last few years, that 213 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 4: this is becoming an increasingly popular issue, with support across 214 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 4: party lines, across demographic groups. So, you know, I think 215 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 4: this is one of those cases where unfortunately the federal 216 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 4: government is just behind where the people are. 217 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: Let's talk about, for example, the benefits in terms of decriminalization. 218 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: Can you make the argument to somebody who's just saying, 219 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: there's no reason why we would ever decriminalize any kind 220 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: of drugs, So what are the benefits in your view? 221 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 4: So decriminalizing is really important because it removes the stigma 222 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 4: away from people who use drugs. The fact of the 223 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 4: matter is that they will if they are using drugs problematically, 224 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 4: they will continue to do so. Instead, we should be 225 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 4: focused on ensuring that people who use drugs problematically and 226 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 4: want access to treatment have access to treatment. Taken in an 227 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 4: approach where we decriminalize drugs will have a lot of benefits, 228 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 4: including making sure that we no longer stigmatize people who 229 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 4: may need access to treatment. 230 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: What states have decriminalized or legalized marijuana. 231 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 4: So here in DC where I live, for example, we 232 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 4: saw that a measure to decriminalize psychedelics was approved. In Oregon, 233 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 4: voters took a really bold measure by approving Measure one ten, 234 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 4: which is the first all drug decriminalization measure in the 235 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 4: entire country. 236 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,599 Speaker 8: It is a huge sledge hammer to the cornerstone of 237 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 8: the war on drugs. 238 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 4: And then in addition to all of that, we saw 239 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 4: voters in Arizona and New Jersey, Montana, South Dakota all 240 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 4: past measures to legalize marijuana for adult use. And then 241 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 4: of course in Mississippi and South Dakota, we even saw 242 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 4: medical marijuana win on the ballot. And I think some 243 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 4: of those states might be a surprise to some people, 244 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 4: especially because some of them are more conservative or tend 245 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 4: to vote read. 246 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: There was somebody in your organization that said that the 247 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: vote in Oregon was the biggest blow to again the 248 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: so called war on drugs so far. So what do 249 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: you mean by that? 250 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, So the vote in Oregon was really exciting for 251 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 4: our organization and I think for this country because I 252 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 4: think it's an example of the first time that we 253 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 4: see a state emphasizing a public health approach to a 254 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 4: drug use rather than a punitive approach. 255 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 3: In the criminal legal system, which is what we're used to. 256 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 4: So the organ measure, Measure one ten not only eliminates 257 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 4: criminal penalties for possession of drugs for personal use, but 258 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 4: it also increases access to health and harm reduction services, 259 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 4: including housing and establishing addiction recovery services. And they do 260 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 4: this by using money that's already in existence, so revenue 261 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 4: from the marijuana. 262 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 3: Regulatory scheme that they have in Oregon. 263 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 4: And also they use savings from the criminal justice system 264 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 4: from reduced arrests, prosecution, and incarceration for drug use and 265 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 4: repurpose that money for harm reduction services and treatment. 266 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 3: So we are excited about that model. 267 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 4: You know, we want to see something similar to marijuana 268 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 4: where you saw one state past marijuana legalization and DCRIM 269 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 4: and then you saw other states do the same things. 270 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 4: So we're hoping that this measure will have the same 271 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 4: type of domino effect around all drug dcrim. 272 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: So is that the reason why there is increasing conversations 273 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: and frankly movement towards decriminalization. 274 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 4: I do think more people are starting to see this 275 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 4: as a public health issue rather than a criminal justice issue. 276 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 4: People are starting to realize the harms that come with 277 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 4: criminal legal system involvement, and a lot of that is 278 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 4: due to the fact that you know, in my opinion, 279 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 4: a lot of directly impacted people are being more vocal 280 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 4: about their experiences with the criminal legal system, and I 281 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 4: do think that is changing hearts and minds. I often 282 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 4: compare it to what we saw in the immigration movement 283 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 4: with Dreamers, where people who are undocumented have you know, 284 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 4: bravely come out and said, I'm undocumented, this is who 285 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 4: I am, this is my experience, and that's great because 286 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 4: you know it, I think opens people's hearts and minds 287 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 4: to a different perspective and it kind of takes the 288 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 4: boogeyman out of the room and they see, Wow, this 289 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 4: person is just like me. And we've seen the same 290 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 4: thing happen with people have had criminal legal system involvement 291 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 4: and people who use drugs. They're really owning the narrative 292 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 4: and educating lawmakers and the public about these issues. And 293 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 4: like I said, I really do think that that is 294 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 4: leading to a cultural shift that we're seeing around drug policy. 295 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about the work that you're 296 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: doing your particular organization. So what are you advocating for 297 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: and how are you advocating for this. 298 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 4: My organization has been around for the past couple of decades, 299 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 4: and when it started out, it was really focused on 300 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 4: just changing the narrative around marijuana. And it's taken two 301 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 4: decades to do that. So just to give you an 302 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 4: idea of how long this work really takes. But really, 303 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 4: the Drug Policy Alliance is focused on ending the war 304 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 4: on drugs and ending the harms that come from drug prohibition, 305 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 4: because we believe that drug prohibition is not smart policy, 306 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 4: is not a public health oriented policy. 307 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 3: Our agenda is. 308 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 4: Really to end the war on drugs, decriminalize drugs, and 309 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 4: you know the other side of that is making sure 310 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 4: that people have access to treatment and harm reduction services 311 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 4: if they need it and want it. 312 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: Coming up on, let you know us say how decriminalization 313 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: might actually help in the middle of an overdose epidemic. 314 00:18:04,320 --> 00:19:02,400 Speaker 1: Stay with us not but yes, hey, we're back. Before 315 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: the break, we were talking with Mariita Betez, director of 316 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: the Office of National Affairs at the Drug Policy Alliance, 317 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: and we were talking about the racial history behind drug enforcement. 318 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: We're going to get back to that conversation now. So 319 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: I love the fact that you've it's d crim so 320 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: in the movement y'all call it DCRIM. Yes, we know that, 321 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: But Mariita, there are people who are going to be 322 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: hearing this whe are just I can feel it already. 323 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: There is going to be terror everywhere for them. They 324 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: are just going to think, oh my god, this is 325 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: going to change everything. I need to move out of 326 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: this state. I can't raise kids all drugs are decriminalized 327 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: in my state. So can you just talk to that fear. 328 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 4: The problem is that enforcement is not fair or equal 329 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 4: in this country. Enforcement of drug use false disproportionately on 330 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 4: poor people and people of color, people who are over 331 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 4: exposed to policing and surveillance, and that just perpetuates more 332 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 4: crime in fact, because now you have cops who are 333 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 4: out here focusing on people who are you know, in 334 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 4: possession of drugs, which you know means that they're not 335 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 4: focusing on more violent crimes, you know, crimes that are 336 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 4: probably about higher impact and higher magnitude. And you know, 337 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 4: with decriminalization also comes the removal of stigma that I 338 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 4: talked about earlier, and I think that's so important because 339 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 4: you know, we don't want to drive people into the 340 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 4: black market or underground that's actually really unsafe for a 341 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 4: number of reasons. 342 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 3: One, we know that the black market perpetuates. 343 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 4: More harmon communities, but also an underground market might mean 344 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 4: that somebody is using drugs that they might not know 345 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 4: what's in there, so it could expose people to overdose. 346 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 4: But we have to think about and really analyze how 347 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 4: our enforcement of drugs is actually pushing those overdose numbers up. 348 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: So I can also hear people saying, wait a second, 349 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: we have people who are increasingly addicted to opioids to men, 350 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: So how is it that you want to have the 351 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: conversation about what you call dcrim in the middle of 352 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: people also having a conversation around massive addiction in the 353 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: United States, addiction to drugs. 354 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 4: So the criminalization of substances can actually push addiction and 355 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 4: overdose rates to a different level. I'll take the opioid 356 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 4: crisis for example. We've seen a lot of opiated overdoses. 357 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 4: So what we're actually seeing is that people are getting 358 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 4: mixed drugs and. 359 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 3: Things that aren't safe. 360 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 4: They go to, you know, the neighborhood drug dealer who 361 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 4: may have mixed their substance with fetanyl. So pushing people 362 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 4: into the black market is just something that doesn't make sense. 363 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 4: From a policy or safety point of view. 364 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: It's kind of like the issue of abortion. It's going 365 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: to happen whether you like it or not. It's going 366 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: to happen, and so the question is how do you 367 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,959 Speaker 1: kind of manage it and with what narrative do you 368 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: manage it? And you feel like there's a narrative change here. 369 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, So I actually like that example that you gave 370 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 4: because I often think about this as like, you know, 371 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 4: when you talk about sex education and when you preach 372 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 4: abstinence only, what do you have You know, you have 373 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 4: people who make decisions not being informed or educated on 374 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 4: the issue, which actually could increase unwanted pregnancies. So, you know, 375 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 4: I use that as an example because I think we 376 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 4: see the same thing with drugs. People will continue to 377 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 4: do drugs. We should make sure that they have all 378 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 4: of the resources and information at their disposal and are 379 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 4: really making informed decisions. 380 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: So that leads us to an entire country that basically 381 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: went the way of Oregon, and that's Portugal. They made 382 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: the decision to decriminalize all drugs. So what happened in Portugal? 383 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: What are the lessons? 384 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 4: So Portugal enacted drug decriminalization in two thousand and one, 385 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 4: and you know, they were really the first to do 386 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 4: it on such a large scale, so obviously everybody was 387 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 4: watching to see what would happen, and what we know 388 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 4: now decades later is that it worked. I think there's 389 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 4: a lot of lessons to be drawn from the Portugal model. 390 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 4: For one, we saw that the number of people who 391 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 4: are voluntarily entering treatment has skyrocketed. We know that overdose 392 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 4: deaths and HIV infections have also plummeted, Incarceration for drug 393 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 4: related defenses has decreased, and the rates of problematic and 394 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 4: adolescent drug use has fallen. But you know, I think 395 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 4: something that's really important to take away from Portugal is 396 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 4: not only did they decriminalize, but they also really truly 397 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 4: invested in harm reduction treatment and services. So it's not 398 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 4: just taking away the criminal legal aspect of it, but 399 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 4: it's also making sure that people have access to treatment. 400 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 3: That's really critical here. 401 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: You know, some people might feel like this is counterintuitive 402 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: to decriminalize drugs at the same time that there's a 403 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: conversation in this country about the record numbers of people 404 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 1: who are dealing with addiction to drugs. Help us understand 405 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 1: how there's an argument that this might actually be a 406 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: potential positive step in terms of addiction and is there 407 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: any evidence how this actually would work. 408 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 4: The support for decriminalizing and removing criminal penalties away from 409 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 4: drug procession is growing across this country too. In addition 410 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 4: to our organization, the Drug Policy Alliance, we also know 411 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 4: that many medical and public health experts, as well as 412 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 4: human rights groups have endorsed drug criminalization. Some of these 413 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 4: other organizations and bodies include the World Health Organization, the 414 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 4: United Nations, the Red Cross, and many others. And you know, 415 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 4: data from across the country and the world really suggests 416 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 4: that treating problematic drug use as the public health issue 417 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 4: that it is is actually more beneficial and a more 418 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 4: successful model for keeping communities healthy and safe as opposed 419 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 4: to a punitive approach to the criminal legal system. 420 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: Right. But you know, there is the issue of fear 421 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: and where some people might just say, well, you know, 422 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: I'm too afraid of of this decriminalization. I'm afraid to 423 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: raise my kids, I'm afraid for my grandchildren to come 424 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: and visit me if I live in a state where 425 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: drugs are decriminalized. How do you address people's fears? 426 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 4: So it's completely reasonable that something new and you know, 427 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 4: something that has been stigmatized for so long wouldn't still 428 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 4: fear in people, But I would just ask them to 429 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 4: really take a look at what the benefits of drug 430 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 4: decriminalization can bring. Drug decriminalization coupled with harm reduction treatment 431 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 4: and services means that people who are using drugs problematically 432 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 4: will have access to treatment, which also reduces, you know, 433 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 4: the harms associated with overdose. I think there's definitely the 434 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 4: case to be made that drug decriminalization improves public health 435 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 4: and safety. 436 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: Which leads us to the question around race and issues 437 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: of class and social justice here. And I'm wondering about 438 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: how you've watched the conversation change regarding drugs as you 439 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: have watched increasingly sectors of white America have to deal 440 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: with opiate addiction or meth addiction, and how has that 441 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: impacted in terms of the way that drug reform is 442 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: being talked about now because of opiate addiction, because it's 443 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 1: perceived to be in white, suburban or rural communities. Now 444 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: it's talked about as a health issue and less as 445 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: a punishment issue. 446 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,919 Speaker 4: That's right, when the face of the overdose crisis became 447 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 4: a whiteface, which has happened over the last few years, 448 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 4: what we saw was that the government really embraced a 449 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 4: more compassionate approach to drug use. 450 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 8: The opioid crisis is an emergency, and I'm saying officially 451 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 8: right now it is an emergency. 452 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 3: It's a national emergency. 453 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 6: We're going to spend a lot of time, a lot 454 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 6: of effort, and a lot of money on the opioid. 455 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 4: Crisis, and that is completely opposite of what we saw with, 456 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 4: let's say, the cocaine era. 457 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 8: The Vice President has been in charge of the South 458 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 8: Florida Task Force and NNBIS from the start, and under 459 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 8: his direction, nearly two dozen federal agencies have been brought 460 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 8: into the war drugs. Many including the Army, Navy, Air Force, 461 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 8: and Marines, are more involved in fighting drugs than ever before. 462 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 8: Working with the Coast Guards and civilian law enforcement agencies, 463 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 8: the military has contributed directly to the ind addiction and 464 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 8: seizure of major quantities of marijuana and cocaine in the 465 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 8: past two years. The Vice President has worked closely with 466 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 8: the Attorney General, who has created thirteen new organized crime 467 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 8: and drug enforcement task forces, and those task forces are 468 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 8: bringing record numbers of indictments. 469 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 4: A lot of this has to do with the fact 470 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 4: that historical racism, implicit racial bias, and discrimination have really 471 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 4: shaped this country's responses to drug use, and unfortunately, these 472 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 4: responses are really evident in drug policy that we see today. 473 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 4: Rather than providing communities of color with treatment resources, policies 474 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 4: continue to criminalize these communities, resulting in disproportionate suffering from 475 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 4: drug epidemics, from overdose and drug misuse. But I do 476 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 4: think it's important to point out that the overdose christ 477 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 4: this isn't a white issue. People of color are increasingly 478 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 4: dying from overdoses, but we're not seeing the same level 479 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 4: of access to treatment and harm reduction services as white 480 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 4: communities are, So we still see that historic under investment 481 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 4: in our communities playing out in drug policy. 482 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: And I'm just wondering, Mandyiza, what is that like for you? 483 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: Because you work in this space, you're very active, you're 484 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: seeing what's happening, and yet at the same time, you're 485 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 1: witnessing how a narrative around the issue of race and 486 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: drug usage by white people actually has an impact on 487 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: the entire conversation. 488 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 3: To be very. 489 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 4: Honest, it's really infuriating to see different responses when white 490 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 4: communities face issues versus people of color, But we do 491 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 4: try to do our work through a racial justice lens. 492 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 4: And you know, we always think about people who who 493 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 4: feel the brunt of policy the most. And unfortunately, because 494 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 4: of socioeconomic issues, poor people and people of color will 495 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 4: continue to bear the brunt of all policy decisions. So 496 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 4: I always try to center people of color, low income individuals, 497 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 4: people at the margins and all of my work, and 498 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 4: I think that's important. 499 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: And when you think about how we've witnessed police institutions 500 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: becoming more militarized, is there a connection that we need 501 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: to be thinking about more police communities like ours that 502 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: are under drug surveillance and now that police force becoming 503 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: more militarized in hardware and kind of in its attitude. 504 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 4: So over the years, over the past few decades, we've 505 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 4: seen the police become more militarized, and that has been 506 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 4: a response to the war on drugs. You know, with that, 507 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 4: we've seen many many funding streams pop up that are 508 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 4: specifically dedicated to drug enforcement agencies that you wouldn't even. 509 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 3: Thinks focus on drugs. 510 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 4: So I'm talking about agencies outside of the Department of 511 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 4: Justice that get millions and billions of dollars in funding 512 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 4: every year to enforce this nation's drug laws, and that 513 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 4: has led to more militarized police responses, not just as 514 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 4: we've seen with like anti racist protesters, but you know, 515 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 4: in the lives of private individuals in their homes. You know, 516 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 4: I can't talk about this without thinking about Brianna Taylor 517 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 4: and the fact that she was the victim of the 518 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 4: war on drugs. 519 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 9: For months, in Kentucky, residents outraged by the killing of 520 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 9: Breanna Taylor campaigned for the police officers who shot her 521 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 9: to face charges. 522 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 3: Common over Kentucky just Hankerson. 523 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 9: In September, a grand jury investigation indicted one officer for 524 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 9: shooting into a neighboring apartment and no one for killing Taylor. 525 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 4: Police served in no knock warrant at her home while 526 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 4: she was sleeping, and of course that resulted in her death. 527 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 4: Militarization has just become more prominent. It's kind of gotten 528 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 4: out of control, which is why I think the call 529 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 4: to defund the police is even more urgent, just because 530 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 4: you know, I think of people under stood how militarized 531 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 4: our police forces have become, they might be on more 532 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 4: on board with that policy demand. 533 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: All Right, there is one measure that we haven't talked about, 534 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: which may actually be one of the biggest deals. In December, 535 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: in the United States House of Representatives, Yes, in Congress, 536 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: they approved a bill called the More Act. 537 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 10: On this vote, the yea's are two twenty eight, the 538 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 10: nays are one sixty four. The bill is passed without objection. 539 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 10: The motion to reconsider is laid on the table. 540 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: And your organization actually helped pass this bill. So what 541 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: is this bill and how did this happen and what 542 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: does it mean in the larger scheme of things. 543 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 4: The US House of Representatives past the More Act, which 544 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 4: made history and was a really significant vote. It marked 545 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 4: the first time that a chamber of Congress voted to 546 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 4: deschedule marijuana. 547 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 3: So what that. 548 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 4: Means is the bill would remove criminal penalties, federal criminal 549 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 4: penalties associated with mayor want to use and activity, first 550 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 4: time we've seen anything like that, which is huge because 551 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 4: it eliminates collateral consequences associated with marijuana activity, which means 552 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 4: that folks can now get jobs, you know, won't have 553 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 4: to sacrifice their housing, could perhaps go back to school 554 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 4: by just removing the criminal penalty. But in addition to that, 555 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 4: the bill would use marijuana tax revenue to fund different 556 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 4: social justice programs. One program would be a Community Reinvestment 557 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 4: Fund that would reinvest tax dollars back into communities that 558 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 4: have been hardest hit by enforcement to provide things like 559 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 4: legal services, job training, mentorship, substance use treatment, things of 560 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 4: that nature. And then the other two funding streams would 561 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 4: go to the Small Business Administration so that they could 562 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 4: diversify the regulated market. 563 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 3: And that's really important. 564 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 4: Because as states are increasingly moving toward legalization, what we 565 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 4: see is that the regulated market is still monopolized by 566 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 4: white men. Even though people of color continue to bear 567 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 4: the brann of enforcement, people of color are completely left 568 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 4: out of the regulated market. And we hope that this 569 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 4: bill could not only get more people of color in 570 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 4: the industry, but also people with convictions, and we made 571 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 4: sure to really spell that out in the bill. Our 572 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 4: goal is to reintroduce the More Act in both chambers 573 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 4: of Congress in twenty twenty one and you know, hopefully 574 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 4: pass it into law. 575 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: And would you say, how were do latinos and latinas. 576 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: I know it's hard to generalize worre clear, but if 577 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: you have a data point, do latinos and Latin has 578 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: come down on the issue of dcrim or of legalizing marijuana. 579 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: How do our attitudes differ or not. 580 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 4: The closest thing I can say is what I see 581 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 4: within the criminal justice reform space more broadly, there are 582 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,239 Speaker 4: very few latinos in the criminal justice reform space that 583 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 4: really does have an impact, not just in terms of 584 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 4: the policy that we developed, but also on our own 585 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 4: communities and the mindset that we bring to these shoes. 586 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 4: You know, I grew up in a household where if 587 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 4: you know, somebody went to jail or prison, the idea was, oh, 588 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 4: they did something bad to deserve that, Like, this is 589 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 4: the just punishment that they deserve. It really took a 590 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 4: lot of self education and in fact, law school for 591 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 4: me to understand how this was, you know, part of 592 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:18,839 Speaker 4: a larger issue in the. 593 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,320 Speaker 3: US, including that of systemic racism. 594 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 4: But you know, I think if a lot of people 595 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 4: don't have that education or access to those issues, I 596 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 4: could see why people don't really you know, might not 597 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,760 Speaker 4: be progressive on these issues like they are with others. 598 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 4: With immigration, perhaps, right, because I think, you know, that's 599 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 4: an issue that our community knows very well. But I 600 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 4: hope that this is one where like immigration. You know, 601 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 4: people will come to learn that it should not be 602 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 4: something that people carry shame around. 603 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 3: And in fact, I do hope that we. 604 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 4: Have more latinal advocates and policymakers in this space because 605 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 4: I think that's part of educating our own community. 606 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: Which I want to take a pause there, because while 607 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: we're talking about decriminalizing, and we're talking about all of 608 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: this kind of mood went forward. As it stands right now, 609 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: if you are undocumented or even if you have a 610 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,879 Speaker 1: green card and you are caught with pot, with marijuana, 611 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,240 Speaker 1: there's a good chance that that could be the beginning 612 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: road for your deportation. As it stands right now, that. 613 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 4: Is absolutely right, and that is because marijuana continues to 614 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,240 Speaker 4: be a federally controlled substance. The More Act would remove 615 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 4: marijuana from the list of controlled substances, and that would 616 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 4: be huge for non citizens and people finding relief because 617 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 4: it's the federal criminalization component that puts people on the 618 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 4: path to deportation or otherwise jeopardizes their immigration status. 619 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 3: So the More Act. 620 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,240 Speaker 4: Would actually make it so that marijuana use or activity 621 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 4: can no longer be a cost for deportation or other 622 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 4: immigration consequences. 623 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: So these are very big political issues, but at the 624 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 1: same time they're very personal. And so what would it 625 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: do in your mind if I was to tell you 626 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: that I am a legal marijuana patient in the state 627 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 1: of Connecticut. How does that influence anything? What does it 628 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: mean anything that someone like me would say that. 629 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 4: I think it does because I think we still need 630 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 4: to fight against drug use stigma. So I think people 631 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 4: being very open about their personal experiences is key to 632 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 4: changing policy. You know, especially you know people that are 633 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 4: very successful. You know, something that people choose to do 634 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 4: for different reasons. And by the way, most people who 635 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,959 Speaker 4: use drugs never develop an addiction or use drugs problematically. 636 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 4: Legalizing weed is also something that would help our people, 637 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 4: same as improving our immigration laws. We are disproportionately policed 638 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 4: for marijuana use. We're over police, we're over sentenced for 639 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 4: these things, and we're completely left out of the regulated market. 640 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 4: To me, this is a racial justice issue, this is 641 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 4: a criminal justice issue. It's a civil rights issue. It's 642 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 4: one that I wish our community would be just as 643 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 4: animated around as immigration and other issues. 644 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: Maliza, thank you so much for joining me on Latino USA. 645 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. 646 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Julieta Martinelli and edited by 647 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:27,320 Speaker 1: Andrea Lopez Crusado, fact checking by Carl Rubin. The Latino 648 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: USA team includes Miguel Macias, Alisa s Carce, Gini Montaldo, 649 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,839 Speaker 1: Alejandra Selassar Rinaldo, LEANOZ Junior, and Julia Rocha, with help 650 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: from Marta Martinez Andra Riperees. Our engineers are Stephanie Lebo, 651 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: Julia Caruso and Lia Shaw, with help from Alishiva YouTube. 652 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: Our digital editor is Luis Luna. Our intern is Samantha Friedman. 653 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: Our theme music was composed by Zane Robinos. If you 654 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: like the music you heard on this episode, stop by 655 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 1: Latino Usa dot org and check out our weekly Spotify playlist. 656 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: I'm your host and executive producer Mario Rosa. Join us 657 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: again on our next episode. In the meantime, look for 658 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: us on all of your social media and I'll see 659 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,760 Speaker 1: you there. Astel Approxima Shoo. 660 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,240 Speaker 11: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Heising 661 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 11: Simons Foundation, Unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities more at hsfoundation 662 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 11: dot org. The John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation 663 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,760 Speaker 11: and funding for Latino USA is coverage of a culture 664 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,360 Speaker 11: of health is made possible in part by a grant 665 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,280 Speaker 11: from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. 666 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: You guys don't even know what holograms are. 667 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 3: Oh my god, Oupac, Yes we do. Yeah, I remember 668 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 3: the Tupac experience. 669 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: Okay, the Tupac. I'm Maria Nahosa. Next time on Latino USA. 670 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 1: One of our How I Made It segments with Omar Apollo, 671 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: a rising star in the indie R and B scene. 672 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 1: That's next time on Latino USA.