1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome 3 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. Holly, 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: we have one of those episodes that a lot of 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: people have been asking us to do for years. Indeed 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: are only just now getting to it. We have had 7 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: a lot of listener requests to talk about sor Juanna 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 1: Inez de la Cruz, including from Bailey, Alyssa, Wendy Arturo, Tressa, 9 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: Shannon Mario, Ella, Jessica, Gayle, Lindsay, Meghan and Chavon. At 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: least three of those are folks who requested it when 11 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: I asked for some topic suggestions on our Facebook page recently, 12 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: and I'm sure we have had other requests as well. 13 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 1: At this point, we can only look back through like 14 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: four years or so of email, and the rest of 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: it is gone into oblivion. Well, and even some of 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: those four years has gone in oblivion thanks to a 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: number of email migrations. Those Unfortunately, they are always casualties. Yes, yes, 18 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: when uh when, when you are not the personal controller 19 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: of your own email because you work for a company, 20 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: then sometimes things happen that are beyond your control anyway. 21 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: Sorwana Inez de la Cruz lived in New Spain in 22 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: the seventeenth century, that's in what's now Mexico, and she 23 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: was the Spanish Empire's most widely published poet of her time. 24 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: Her work was read in both Spanish and Portuguese speaking 25 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: areas in Europe and the America's and the Philippines, and 26 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: her work has survived until today. But in terms of 27 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: like her own personal thoughts and introspection, we don't have 28 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: as much about a lot of her life. Consequently, her 29 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: life has been just really subject to interpretation. It has 30 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: been interpreted incredibly differently depending on who has been doing 31 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: the interpreting. So I mean there's a out of variety 32 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: you can you can get an almost totally different sense 33 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: of who she was depending on exactly who is describing her. Also, 34 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: her poetry is very complex, and she wrote in poetic 35 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: forms that were common during the Spanish Golden Age that 36 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: won't necessarily be familiar even to people who have studied poetry, 37 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: like I have studied poetry, but I have studied poetry 38 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: in English, and a lot of the poetic forms that 39 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: she wrote in are totally unfamiliar to me. So if 40 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: you studied Spanish language poetry, specifically in particular the New 41 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: Spanish Baroque, that might have all be forms that you 42 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: know about. Um not as easy to explain to English 43 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: speakers who don't have the familiarity. So this episode is 44 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: a lot more about sor Juana's life than it is 45 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: about her work. Yeah, when I studied poetry in college, 46 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: so it was not really any delving into the New 47 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: Spanish Baroque. No, well, then it's it has the added 48 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: layer of complexity of if if you are not a 49 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: fluent speaker of Spanish, you're reading a translation into English, 50 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: and translating poetry is particularly difficult because of how poetry works. Yes, 51 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: I learned that primarily from Charles Baudelaire, not Spanish, but 52 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: similar translation issues not nearly as beautiful or melodic to 53 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: my ear in English. But well, and one of the 54 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: things that one of my one of my literature professors 55 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: told us when I was in college was that Baudelaire 56 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: was the person who translated Poe into French. So pose 57 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: poetry in French is incredibly beautiful in a way that 58 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: it isn't necessarily in English. It really is like the 59 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: cadence of it is really beautiful. It uh, it has 60 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: its own rhythm that is not the way it reads 61 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: in English. I also love Poe in English, but there 62 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: is a whole It's like a whole different writer essentially, 63 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: um which is kind of illustrative of what you were saying. Like, 64 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: any time you're translating and then interpreting and extrapolating someone's 65 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: essen from their written work in poetry that has been 66 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: shifted around, you're going to get different versions of who 67 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: that person was. Yep. Have you only read Poe in French, 68 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: I bet you would think he was slightly different than 69 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: he really was in real life. So applying this to 70 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: today's topic. Sarjuana and As de la Cruz was born 71 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 1: Juanna Ramirez as Bahi in San Miguel and the Pantla, 72 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: which is southeast of Mexico City. Her mother was Isabel 73 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: Ramirez de Santiana, who was a creolea woman, that is, 74 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: she was of Spanish descent, but she was born in 75 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: New Spain, and her father was Pedro Manuel de Esbahi, 76 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: who Wanna described as Basque. He had come to the 77 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: Americas from Europe, and Juana was the youngest of three 78 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: daughters who were born to Isabel and Pedro Wanas. Date 79 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: of birth isn't clear, as is the case with a 80 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: lot of people born this long ago. Some sources noted 81 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: as November twelfth, sixteen fifty one, but there's also a 82 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: baptismal record from her parish that's probably hers and that 83 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: was dated December second, sixteen forty eight. This record notes 84 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: the baptism of a girl named Inez, whose godparents were 85 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: Isabelle Ramirez, his brother and sister, so her maternal uncle 86 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: and aunt. This record also describes the young in As 87 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: as daughter of the Church, which meant that her parents 88 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: weren't married to one another. Sometime after Juana was born, 89 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: her father left the family, and we do not know 90 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: why that happened or where he went. We don't even 91 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: actually know exactly when it happened. It was by the 92 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: time Juanna was five or six years old, but it 93 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: was probably earlier than that. And As took her children 94 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: to live with her father at his hacienda known as Panoya, 95 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: and this was one of two haciendas that he was 96 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: leasing from the church, which had a workforce of enslaved 97 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: Africans and indigenous people. Enslavement of indigenous people had been 98 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: outlawed in New Spain, although working conditions for indigenous people 99 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: still tended to be abusive and exploitive. This family wasn't 100 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: especially affluent, but they were relatively comfortable and stable, and 101 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: they were able to send why as older sister, Josepha Maria, 102 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: to a local school that was being run by a 103 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: woman in the community for the benefit of its less 104 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: wealthy children. When she was about three years old, Wanna 105 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: sneaked away from home and followed her sister to school, 106 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: and then told the teacher that her mother had ordered 107 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: that she get lessons to In Juannah's account, this teacher 108 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: did not believe her, but she found the whole thing 109 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: so charming that she gave Wanna lessons anyway, and Juanna 110 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: learned so quickly that by the time her mother realized 111 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: what she was doing and put a stop to it, 112 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: she already knew how to read. Aside from that and 113 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: about twenty lessons in Latin, this was Wanta's only formal education, 114 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: but once she knew how to read, Wanna started educating herself. 115 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: She started with her grandfather's library. She would take the 116 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: books from the shelves and then go hide in the 117 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: hacienda's chapel to read them undisturbed. Juanna did not have 118 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: a lot of choice in what she studied. The books 119 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: that were available to her were the ones in her 120 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: grandfather's library, and that was that. But dedicated herself to 121 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: whatever she had at hand, and to motivate herself, she 122 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: would cut a few inches off of her hair, intending 123 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: to master a particular subject by the time it grew back, 124 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: and if she failed, she would cut more of her 125 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: hair off. She said, quote, it did not seem to 126 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: me reasonable that I dressed the hair of a head 127 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: naked of knowledge, which was a more appreciable adornment. When 128 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: she learned that there was a university in Mexico City, 129 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: but that only men were allowed to attend, she begged 130 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: her mother to let her dress as a boy so 131 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: that she could go. Her mother did not go for 132 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: this plan. I think she was also still a small 133 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: She was too young, in addition to being a girl, 134 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: too young to go to university. But yeah, there was 135 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: no way her family was going to allow her to 136 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: do that. In January of sixteen fifty six, when she 137 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: was about eight, Juana's grandfather died and in about the 138 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: same time, her mother started a relationship with a man 139 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: named Diego Ruiz Lozano, although they also never married. Isabel 140 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: and Diego had two daughters and a son together, and 141 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: sometime as all of this was happening, Wana was sent 142 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: to Mexico City to live with her mother's sister. All 143 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: of these changes probably played a part in her going 144 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: to Mexico City, but the exact reasons for Juanna's departure 145 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: aren't documented anywhere, and we also don't know whether her 146 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: older sisters were also sent to live somewhere else at 147 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: the same time. But we do know that Juanna's half 148 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: siblings had better prospects for their futures than Juanna and 149 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: her sisters did. All six of them had been born 150 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: to unwed parents, although that was not as stigmatized as 151 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: folks may imagine. In terms of religion. New Spain was 152 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: very strictly Catholic, but at the same time people seem 153 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: to recognize and accept that people who were not married 154 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: to each other might have babies together. The family doesn't 155 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: seem to have been looked down on or ostracized because 156 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: of any of this, and several people within the family 157 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: went on to marry prominent respected men, attend university or 158 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: find careers in the church or the military. I think 159 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: will imagine that if if you had children and you 160 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: were unmarried, that your whole family might be immediately shunned 161 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: from society and you had to hide forever. And that 162 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: just doesn't seem to be how things were actually working 163 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: when and where it Wanta was living. More important than 164 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: the children's birth was the fact that Diego Ruiz Losano 165 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: had some money and he was present in his children's 166 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: lives so one his half sisters all had dowries and 167 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: they had a father to negotiate for them in their marriages. 168 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: Wanna had none of that. She did have some relatives 169 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 1: who could offer some protection, though her mother's sister Maria, 170 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: had married a wealthy man named Wanda Mata, and we 171 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 1: know very little of her life over the next few years, 172 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: except that she was extremely precocious and continued to be 173 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: very eager to learn. By age thirteen, she was teaching 174 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: Latin to others, and she also taught herself no waddle. 175 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: She also grew into an attractive young woman, which caught 176 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: the attention of New Spain's nobility. We will get to 177 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: that after a quick sponsor break. In the seventeenth century, 178 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 1: New Spain was ruled by a viceroy who acted as 179 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: the Crown's presence in the America's The viceroy was sent 180 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: to the America's from Spain and to try to ensure 181 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: that the viceroy would be loyal to the crown but 182 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: also not become too powerful. Viceroys were given limited terms. 183 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: The standard term was technically three years, but often the 184 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: actual assignment was more like seven or eight. A lot 185 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: of vice stroies were given an extension before they even 186 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: left from Europe. Relocating someone all the way across the 187 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: ocean every three years seems like a lot. Antonio Sebastian did. 188 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: Toledo Marquis de Mancera began serving as Viceroy of New 189 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: Spain in sixteen sixty four, and he arrived with his 190 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: wife Donia Leonar Carretto. Juana's aunt and uncle presented her 191 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: at court, and Juanna, at the age of sixteen, was 192 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: selected to be a lady in waiting to the viceroy, 193 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: who was in her early thirties. Wanta lived at court 194 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 1: from the age of sixteen until she was about twenty, 195 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: and she became known as a court prodigy. One of 196 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 1: the most famous stories from these years is that the 197 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: Viceroy brought in a panel of forties scholars to try 198 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: to test her intellect, and, in his words, quote in 199 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: the manner of a royal galleon defending itself against a 200 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: few small sloops that had assailed it, did wanna and 201 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: as free herself of the questions, arguments and objections that 202 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: so many each in his own class propounded. It's likely 203 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: that this story was exaggerated at least somewhat, but the 204 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: Viceroy Shorted loved to tell it, so probably some version 205 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: of it really did happen. Probably also, the collective memory 206 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: of everyone involved shifted to match with the Vice Royce. Yeah, yeah, 207 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: it's not the only, you know, examination of a person 208 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: by a team of scholars that we've talked about on 209 00:11:55,559 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: the show. That is probably a little embellished. Being at 210 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: court would have given Wana lots of resources to continue 211 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: educating herself. Although she studied literature and is best known 212 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 1: for her writing, Wana was also interested in science, astronomy, medicine, 213 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: and law. She also wrote extensively, although most of her 214 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: poems are not dated, so we don't always know when 215 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: any particular poem was written. Her poetry included love poems, 216 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: including ones written to the Vicerine, and in these poems 217 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: she refers to the Vicerine as Laura, which is a 218 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: reference to Petrarch's sonnets. These were socially acceptable given the 219 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: vast differences in the two women's positions. It was more 220 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: like a troubadour writing a courtly love sonnet to a 221 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: lady than a lover writing a poem to someone who 222 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: was considered their equal or their partner. There's a lot 223 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: of speculation about Lana's time at court. A lot of 224 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: her writing suggests to people that she had some firsthand 225 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: experience with love. Her poetry especially is really evocative of 226 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: all the feelings that can come along with a passionate 227 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: or stormy love affair, including affection and jealousy and betrayal 228 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: and the joy of requited feelings. A lot of these 229 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: poems are also erotic, but at the same time, there 230 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,079 Speaker 1: is a lot that we just don't know, which has 231 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: led people to wonder whether Wanta had a tragic love 232 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: affair at court, and if so, who it was with, 233 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: and what that person's gender was. This tickles me a 234 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: little because I certainly know that I have read the 235 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: writing of people who have never had a romantic relationship 236 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: who right as though they did. So it's kind of 237 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: funny to think, like she must have been involved with someone, 238 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: look what she wrote. I'm like, not necessarily, she may 239 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: have just been perceptive. Yeah, as we noted earlier, the 240 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: vice Regency of New Spain was a temporary position. Juana 241 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: seemed to have been very comfortable, cared for, and liked 242 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: during her time at court, but she also knew that 243 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: once the Viceroy and Vice rene went back to Spain, 244 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: there was no guarantee that she would find herself similarly 245 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: favored by their replacements. It was also incredibly unlikely that 246 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: she would find a husband while she was at court. 247 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: Number one, most of the men at court were already married. 248 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: They did like to flirt. There were, for her dalliances 249 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: and affairs, but they were already married. No, I'm not 250 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: saying there were necessarily affairs with her, just they existed. Also. 251 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: Number two, marriages were negotiated between families, and Wada didn't 252 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: have anybody at court who could be negotiating on her behalf. 253 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: Number three, she still had no dowry. More important than 254 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: all of that, though, She just didn't want to get married. 255 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: Even if she did have a dowry, it was incredibly 256 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: unlikely that a husband would just allow her to continue 257 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: on with her self, educating and her writing, rather than 258 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: expecting her to leave all that behind and take up 259 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: the duties of a wife. She said she felt a 260 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: quote total antipathy towards marriage, so she decided to become 261 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: a nun. As was true for many other women at 262 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: the time, this was more of a practical decision than 263 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: a religious calling. Wanna was a devout Catholic, but she 264 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: had never expressed a desire to devote herself to a 265 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: religious life. Instead, she recognized that a convent was the 266 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: place that she was most likely to be able to 267 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: continue on with her course of study and writing. One 268 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: flaw in this plan was that women whose parents were 269 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: not married were not generally allowed to join, So Juanna 270 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: said her birth was legitimate, something she repeated it numerous 271 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: points throughout her life, even though it seems to have 272 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: been common knowledge that her parents were not married. Religious 273 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: orders and convents in New Spain were stratified and segregated 274 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: in the same way that the rest of the general 275 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: society was different. Convents had different levels of wealth. Some 276 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: of them were only open to people directly from Spain, 277 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: and others were open only to Creolya women. The first 278 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: one that Wanna joined was the convent of the Discounsed 279 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: Caramelites of St. Joseph, but she was only there for 280 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: a few months. Some sources say that she left because 281 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: of her health, but there's really no record that it 282 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: is more likely that she just found this particular order 283 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: way too restrictive for her tastes. About eighteen months later, 284 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: she tried again. On February sixteen sixty nine, she became 285 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: sore Juana and As de la Cruz at the convent 286 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: of Santa Paula of the Heernomite Order in Mexico City. 287 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: In the minds of many in Mexico City, this was 288 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: the best possible outcome, not just for Juanna but for 289 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: society as a whole. Intelligent women were regarded as a threat, 290 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: and so were beautiful women. Her Jesuit confessor, and Tonio 291 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: Nuniez de Miranda, said that he rejoiced once she was 292 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: in a convent, because her continuing to be in the 293 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: public eye had the potential to cause a lot of 294 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: harm thanks to how beautiful and learned she was. This 295 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: convent was a little different from the very spare, minimal 296 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: existence that might immediately come to mind. Each woman joining 297 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: the convent was required to provide a dowry. The Convent 298 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: of Santa Paula had an average of between three thousand 299 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: and four thousand pesos for the dowries that it's nuns provided. 300 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: Sarwanda's dowry was provided by Pedro Velaska's de la Cadena. 301 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: Sorwana also had a few hundred pastos of her own, 302 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: which had been given to her while she was at court, 303 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: and she willed that to her mother. The nuns lived 304 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: in spacious cells that were more like apartments, with their 305 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: own small kitchens. Sor Juana bought one in sixteen ninety 306 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: one that had two floors. A nun's servants lived with her, 307 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 1: as did any children or young women they were sheltering 308 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: or teaching. Although the nuns in theory lived communally, these 309 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: rules were not strictly observed in sor Juana's convent. Many 310 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: of the nuns ate food prepared in the kitchens in 311 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: their own cells, rather than eating with their religious sisters. 312 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,479 Speaker 1: The convent as a whole was supported by a staff 313 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: of servants, some of whom were enslaved. Sor Juana's mother 314 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: gave her an enslaved servant the year that she joined 315 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: the convent, and this woman's name is listed as wanted 316 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: to San Jose. Then in sixteen eighty four, Sorwana sold 317 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: wanted to San Jose and her baby to her sister, 318 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,719 Speaker 1: Josepha Maria, for two d fifty pacos. On average, there 319 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: were three maids for each nun at this convent, so 320 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 1: it's very likely that Srijuana had other servants who were 321 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: either free or enslaved while she was living there. They're 322 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: just not specifically documented anywhere. Altogether, about two hundred women 323 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: were living in the convent. Daily life in the convent 324 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: was broken up into a regular pattern of prayers, meals, 325 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: and other religious duties. It was a very predictable and 326 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: regimented pattern. At the same time, there was a lot 327 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: of time for chatter and gossip, which really annoyed sor Juana. 328 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: To her, the place seemed like a hotbed of ongoing 329 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 1: petty jealous ees and intrigues, and she often wrote about 330 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: settling into study. Only for one of her sisters to 331 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: come in and gossip, or being interrupted by someone playing 332 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: an instrument, or having allowed conversation, or otherwise being disruptive. 333 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: At the same time, the convent was relatively permissive in 334 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: terms of things like personal wealth. There wasn't a strictly 335 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: enforced vow of poverty for any of these nuns, so 336 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: Sarwana turned her cell into her personal library. She had 337 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: at least fift undred volumes and possibly as many as 338 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: four thousand. She also collected scientific and musical instruments. The 339 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: convent was also pretty lax about visitors. The nuns didn't 340 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 1: really leave the convent, but they welcomed visitors and entertainers. Frequently, 341 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: sor Juana turned the locutorio, or the sitting area where 342 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 1: the nuns were allowed to have visitors, into a literary salon. 343 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: The nuns were technically supposed to keep their faces veiled 344 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: when they met with outsiders, but this really wasn't enforced either. 345 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: So the decision to join a convent, and to join 346 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,479 Speaker 1: this particular convent, given how permissive it was, was an 347 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 1: incredibly savvy move in terms of what Sarwana wanted out 348 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: of life. She had various prayers and duties that she 349 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: had to tend to throughout the day, but she was 350 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: also able to keep studying and learning and writing and 351 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: making a name for herself both within and outside of 352 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: the convent. We'll talk about her most productive years after 353 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: we first pause for a little sponsor break. Overall, cer 354 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: Juana seems to have been pretty well respected within her convent. 355 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,199 Speaker 1: The nuns elected women from among themselves to serve as 356 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 1: mother superior and in other important positions, and at various points, 357 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 1: Sir Juanna was elected to be an archivist and a bookkeeper. 358 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: As bookkeeper, she also did an excellent job at managing 359 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 1: the convents funds and interests. She also taught music and 360 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: drama at the convent school, and it's possible that she 361 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: was a painter. One of the portraits that we have 362 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 1: of her as labeled as being copied from one that 363 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: was made by her own hand. She may have also 364 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: painted miniatures, including things like the medallion that she wore 365 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: as part of her religious dress, but no examples of 366 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: her painting survives if that was the case. Viceroy Antonio 367 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: Sebastian de Toledo was recalled to Spain in sixteen seventy three, 368 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 1: and the following year, his wife, Leonar Caretto died. Sor 369 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 1: Juana wrote three sonnets to commemorate her passing. Other than that, 370 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: sor Juana's first decade at the convent seems to have 371 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 1: been pretty quiet, although members of the church hierarchy did 372 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 1: sometimes admonish her to spend more of her time on 373 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: religious matters rather than all of this secular study in writing. Then, 374 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: in sixteen eighty, Tomas de la Serta, the third Marquess 375 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: of La Laguna, became New Spain's new viceroy. His wife, 376 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: Maria Luisa, was almost exactly the same age as sor Juana, 377 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: and the two of them became very close. The Vice 378 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: Regin visited Sarwuana frequently at the convent and arranged for 379 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: the publication of her work. Over time, sor Juana became 380 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: something of an unofficial court poet. From within the walls 381 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: of the convent, sor Juanna wrote Maria Luisa numerous passionate 382 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,959 Speaker 1: love poems addressing her as Lisi or Licida, and they 383 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 1: were generally more passionate and intimate than the ones that 384 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: she had written to Donia Leonard Corretto, and as with 385 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: those earlier poems, these didn't really attract a lot of 386 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: notice thanks to the huge gap in status between the 387 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: two women. It was really such a gulf that Sri 388 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 1: Juana often referred to herself as the Viceroy and vice 389 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: reigns servant, or even sometimes their slave. Like we said earlier, 390 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: a lot of Srijuana's work is undated, so it's not 391 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: always possible to tell exactly when she wrote a particular piece, 392 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: but we do know that she demonstrated immense skill in 393 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: the multiple poetic forms that were valued during the Spanish 394 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: Golden Age. She wrote plays in verse, which were preceded 395 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 1: by short theatrical works known as lous. She wrote liturgical 396 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: musical works known as viencicos. She wrote at least twenty 397 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: love sonnets and at least forty sonnets on other subjects, 398 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 1: as well as ballads that were known as romances. The 399 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: piece that's considered her masterpiece translates into English's first Dream, 400 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: and it is a very long, complex philosophical poem, and 401 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: her range with all of this work was huge. It 402 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: spanned from the body and erotic to cloak and dagger 403 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: drama to religious work. She wrote a satirical poem called 404 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: Ambre Nacios or Foolish Men, in which she pointed out 405 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: the double standards in the behavioral expectations of men and women. 406 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: She also incorporated multiple languages and dialects, including the Nawada 407 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: language and Hispanic African dialects, and there was a lot 408 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: of this work collected today. It takes up four volumes, 409 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: and a lot of that was published during her lifetime. 410 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 1: In nine a collection titled Castilian Flood was published in Madrid, 411 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: and then other editions of that work followed. Her work 412 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: was collected into three volumes during her lifetime, which were 413 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: all published in the years just before and after her death. 414 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: Thomas de la Cerda was recalled to space in sixteen 415 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: eighty six, and some biographers point to this as the 416 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: moment that sor Juana lost all of her protection and prestige, 417 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: but that's not exactly so. She had been writing and 418 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: studying before the Marquess and his wife arrived, and she 419 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: continued to do so afterward. She didn't have as much 420 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: help getting her work published or performed or in front 421 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: of the court, but it wasn't as though there was 422 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: suddenly a switch flipped and no one was reading her work. Anymore. 423 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: By sixteen ninety, she was one of the wealthiest nuns 424 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: in her convent. That year, though, Sorwana got caught up 425 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: in a dispute between Manuel Fernandez de Santa Cruz, the 426 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: Bishop of Puebla, and the Archbishop Francisco de Aguiar say Us. 427 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 1: The bishop asked sor Juana to write a critique of 428 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,360 Speaker 1: a sermon that had been delivered forty years before by 429 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: Jesuit priest Antonio Vieira. When she did this, he published 430 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: it without her permission, and when he published it, he 431 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,239 Speaker 1: added a letter ahead of it that both praise her 432 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 1: work and scolded her for spending too much of her 433 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: time on secular things rather than on religious matters. The 434 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: bishop didn't sign this under his own name, though he 435 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: signed it sore Philotia, framing it as this being the 436 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: opinion of a fellow nun. The archbishop was a friend 437 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: and a colleague of Antonio Verea, who had written this sermon, 438 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: and it helped get that sermon published, so sorwana Is 439 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: criticism of the sermon had been arranged to kind of 440 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: criticize the archbishop by proxy, because the Bishop of Puebla 441 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: didn't get along with him it's very complicated and petty. Yeah, 442 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: she was essentially used as a tool by uh squabbling man. 443 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: Who knows what the Bishop of Puebla thought was going 444 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: to happen when he pulled sor Juana into this dispute. 445 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: But what did happen is that a few months later, 446 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 1: sor Juana replied to sor Pilot defending both her actions 447 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: and the right of women to learn. Her response is 448 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: simultaneously really conciliatory and absolutely unyielding. Sorwana starts off by 449 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: praising sor Philotea and expressing that she herself wasn't at 450 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: all worthy to be writing this, and she went on 451 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: to say that her desire to learn wasn't something she 452 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: had chosen for herself. It had come from beyond herself 453 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: and was just part of her nature. She talked about 454 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: her upbringing and her time and the convent and how 455 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: it related to this desire to learn. She also gave 456 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: examples from her life, like the time that a mother 457 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: superior ordered her not to study from her books anymore, 458 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: and that was an order that she obeyed, but she 459 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 1: wasn't able to stop herself from studying whatever was around her, 460 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: like when she saw some children playing with a top. 461 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: She scattered some flower onto the ground to see whether 462 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: the tip made perfect circles when it made its way 463 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: through it. I'm just curious. I can't help it. She 464 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: also described how her desire to learn had mostly brought 465 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: her hardship because to be different was to be seen 466 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: as evil, and because a mind like hers was not 467 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: considered suitable for a woman. But she also writes about 468 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: some of the exceptional women in the Bible, including Deborrah, Esther, 469 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: and the Queen of Sheba. It's a little reminiscent of 470 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: the Book of the City of Ladies, which we already 471 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: have an episode on if you would like to check 472 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: that out over and over. In this piece, sor Juana 473 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: combines the idea that her intelligence and aptitude and desire 474 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 1: to learn are a hardship because of her gender with 475 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: the idea that it's also just natural to her and it. 476 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: She calls her poetry her quote twice unhappy ability, while 477 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: she also says that it is such a core part 478 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: of her that she has had to struggle not to 479 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: write the letter in verse. Sar Juana's response was not 480 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: formally published during her lifetime, but it was passed around 481 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: in religious circles, and the reaction varied from place to place. 482 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: She got some sympathy and support in Spain, but total 483 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: derision in places where Antonio Vieira was especially revered. Her confessor, 484 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: Antonio Nuniez de Miranda, refused to see her. He was 485 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 1: also reported as saying that if he had realized she 486 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: was going to do all this writing, he would have 487 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: seen her married instead. The archbishop demanded that sor Juana 488 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 1: give up her studies. He had criticized her secular studies before, 489 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 1: so this was not new, but things definitely did escalate. 490 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: This might have blown over, but in sixte there were 491 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 1: extensive floods in the region, and then there was a 492 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 1: solar eclipse, and then that was followed by a plague 493 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: of weevils, which people either blamed on the eclipse or 494 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: thought the eclipse had predicted. That's all. The whole flooding 495 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: and we evil infestation then led to a famine and 496 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: food riots in sixteen. The National Palace was attacked and 497 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: burned during the riots, along with a lot of the 498 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: market in the main square of Mexico City. On April 499 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: two of that year, Tomas de Leserta died, so sar 500 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: Wuana no longer had a former viceroy on her side, 501 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: and his widow, who she had been so close to, 502 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: was naturally occupied with other matters. This was a time 503 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: of hardship and chaos for everybody, and everybody, including the church, 504 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: was totally on edge. Sar Juanna wrote her last published 505 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: work during this time. That was a set of carols 506 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: to St. Catherine of Alexandria. In sixteen ninety three, she 507 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: sold off her library and her collections of scientific and 508 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: musical instruments, with the proceeds going to help the poor. 509 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: She renewed her relationship with her former confessor, and on 510 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: March five she wrote a repentance signed in her blood. 511 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: That sounds very dramatic, but it was a fairly common 512 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: practice at this time. After all of this, her cell 513 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: was described as containing only three devotional books, along with 514 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: some hair shirts and scourges, although after her death it 515 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,959 Speaker 1: was found that she also still had some money and jewelry. 516 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: A few months before her death, sor Juanna wrote this 517 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: in the Convinced Book of Professions. Quote in this place 518 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: is to be noted the day, month, and year of 519 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: my death. For the love of God, and His most 520 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: Holy Mother. I entreat my beloved sisters, the nuns, who 521 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: are here now and who shall be in the future, 522 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,239 Speaker 1: to commend me to God. For I have been and 523 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: am the worst among them. Of them, I ask forgiveness 524 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: for the love of God and His Mother, I worst 525 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: of all in the world. Juana and as de la Cruz. 526 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: This was not an unusual amount of self judgment in 527 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: these sorts of religious writings at the time, but it 528 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: is still very evocative, so we don't have any of 529 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: sor Juanna's own writing about all this. Catholic biographers, especially 530 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, framed this as coming 531 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: from devotion and from a sincere desire for sor Juana 532 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: to re dedicate herself to religious life. Other more recent 533 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: biographers have described it as a punishment that was inflicted 534 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: on her by an archbishop who was outraged over the 535 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: events of sixteen ninety. Still, others have suggested that it 536 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: might have been more pragmatic. The younger sar Juana had 537 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: recognized that a convent was the best place for her 538 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: to continue her studies, even though she didn't actually feel 539 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: a religious calling to be there. The older sar Juana 540 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: may have thought that the best way to secure her 541 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: future was to, at least for a time, put aside 542 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: her secular study in writing. If that was the case, 543 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: though she didn't get the chance to see if she 544 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: might return to her study and writing someday. In the 545 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: spring of sixteen and epidemics struck the convent. It is 546 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: sometimes described as plague and sometimes as a plague. I 547 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: do not know what type of plague it was, regardless, 548 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: though Sarwana contracted it while caring for her religious sisters. 549 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: She died on September seventeen, sixte at the age of 550 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: about forty six. During her lifetime, sor Juana was nicknamed 551 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: the Tenth Muse and the Phoenix of America, but her 552 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: work fell out of view for of time after her death, 553 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: An edition of her work was published in seventeen and 554 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: that was it for more than two hundred years. Also, 555 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: laws banning communal ownership of property led to church archives 556 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: being scattered and lost, including records and documents that were 557 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: related to Sri Juana. But interest in her work really 558 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: started to be renewed after the turn of the twentieth century, 559 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: especially after the Mexican Revolution. The first modern edition of 560 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: sor Juana's work was published in nineteen forty. Multiple biographies 561 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: have been written since then, including one by Mexican poet 562 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: Octavio Pass that was one of those sources for this episode. 563 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: I highly recommend it, especially if you want to know 564 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: more about her poetry, because this work is as much 565 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: about literary criticism as it is about her actual biography. 566 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: There's definitely more recent work about the biography itself, but 567 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: having a work about her poetry being written by a 568 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: Mexican poet is like particularly insightful in terms of her writing. 569 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: Her life has also been the subject of numerous plays 570 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: and movies and TV shows, including a twenty sixteen mini 571 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: series called Wanna Enz, which I haven't watched, but it's 572 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: on Netflix. There's so much on Netflix. Um. In the 573 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties, sor Juana's convent was being refurbished and a 574 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: set of remains was found with a badge that was 575 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: typical of the medallion that she usually wore. The badge 576 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: was so warned that it was impossible to tell what 577 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: was on it. Sor Juana's had depicted the annunciation, but 578 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: it was more common for nuns to where one depicting 579 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: the Immaculate conception. Mexican novelist Margharita Lopez Portillo, who was 580 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: a scholar of sor Juana, took the medallion home with her, 581 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: which became a huge issue. Ultimately she returned it and 582 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: the remains and the medallion were reinterred in the church 583 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: of Santa Gronemo on the three and twentieth anniversary of 584 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: sor Juana's death. Yeah, people, a lot of times these 585 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,080 Speaker 1: remains aren't described as belonging to her, and it's not 586 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: impossible that they are hers, but the medallion that she 587 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: wore was very commonly warned among nuns in her order 588 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: during her time, with the exception that hers had a 589 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 1: different depiction on it than was more commonly worn. So 590 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: it's a lot it's it's not a certain that these 591 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: were her remains, but they have been treated as there 592 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: they are until very recently. Sir Wanta was on the 593 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: two Paso note. Redesigned bills that don't feature her anymore 594 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: are entering circulation literally as we are recording this podcast. 595 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: Her birthplace was also renamed now it's Naputala Disorder Juanna 596 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: and as Dela Cruz and her old convent is now 597 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: a university that is named after her. She is a 598 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: fascinating figure to me, and also a lot more complicated 599 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,399 Speaker 1: than like a lot of the one page write ups 600 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: that you will find about her, like on online. A 601 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: lot of times they're almost one dimensional as sort of 602 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: like this is sor Wanna who was such a rebel, 603 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: or this is Sorwana who was like such a child prodigy, 604 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: or this is Sorwana who was the first feminist. And 605 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,760 Speaker 1: that one is particularly troubling because none of those grapple 606 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: with the fact that she enslaved people while she was 607 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: in the comment Yeah, well that's always the case, right. 608 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: We discover over and over there's something that's come up 609 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 1: or someone has asked us to do it because they're like, 610 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: so and so it was a vampire. It's like wait, wait, wait, 611 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: their life is way more nuanced than yeah. So that 612 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: is why we do the work we do. Do you 613 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 1: have a little bit of listener mail? I do have 614 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: listener mail. It's from Alexia and we actually just got 615 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,240 Speaker 1: this email last night. And Alexia says, dear Holly and Tracy, 616 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: I was so excited to hear the episode on the 617 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,919 Speaker 1: Guatemalan coup as we are recording this, the second part 618 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: of that is not even out yet. The letter goes on, 619 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: I love Latin American history, which is so important but 620 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,760 Speaker 1: so overlooked, in particular the complicated histories of twentieth century 621 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,399 Speaker 1: Latin American countries. As an archivist, I had to reach 622 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,800 Speaker 1: out following this episode because one of the most important 623 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: endangered human rights archives is in Guatemala, and the more 624 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: awareness the better. The archive is the Archivo Historica de 625 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: la Policia Nacional or the National Police Archives, which was 626 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: discovered in quotation marks in two thousand six and international 627 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: investment created the a h p N as an independent entity, 628 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: even though the records remained owned by the National Police. 629 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: This archive documents the National Police going back to the 630 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds, but especially documents the human rights abuses 631 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: in the later part of the twentieth century and especially 632 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: during the most violent years of the Civil War in 633 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,280 Speaker 1: the intervening gears. There has been a post custodial project 634 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: between the a h p N and the University of 635 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: Texas at Austin, where the original documents are maintained in Guatemala, 636 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 1: but the digitized surrogus are housed at u T Austin 637 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: for safekeeping. This archive is vital toward preserving the history 638 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,320 Speaker 1: of Guatemala, pursuing justice, and forgiving friends and family members 639 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: answers about what happened to their loved ones. However, it 640 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: is currently under extreme threat by the government, which has 641 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: replaced its head with a politician, continues to threaten staff, 642 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 1: and has even threatened UT Austin with a lawsuit that 643 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,719 Speaker 1: it is stealing its national heritage. More awareness is needed 644 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 1: about this archive to hopefully save it, hence this email. 645 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,879 Speaker 1: For more information, please check out the links above or 646 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: Kristen Welds brilliant book Paper Cadavers about how the archive 647 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,959 Speaker 1: was created out of US military training, maintained and later 648 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: rediscovered by activists. I've loved the podcast for years. I 649 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: find it super helpful when processing collections. Best regards, Alexeia. 650 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for this email, Alexeia, I had 651 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: not heard about this at all, but basically, in two 652 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: thousand six, one of the oversight organizations that have been 653 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,720 Speaker 1: created in in Guatemala found literally warehouses full of these 654 00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: um full of these national police documents, literally millions of documents, 655 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,919 Speaker 1: and the decision was made to the interest of human 656 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: rights and the interest of reconciliation to try to protect 657 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: them from being destroyed and to make it transparent to 658 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: people what had happened in the past. And so there's 659 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: this huge effort involving digitizing these millions and millions of documents. 660 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,719 Speaker 1: And then over the last year or so, things have 661 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: shifted in terms of what I just read in the email, 662 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: and the archive went from a staff of about two 663 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: hundred two as of the last news article that I 664 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: read about it this morning, more like thirty. So it's 665 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: been a huge issue that are that people are trying 666 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: to to make sure that the archive continues to be 667 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:43,359 Speaker 1: protected because it's an enormous wealth of information about all 668 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:48,240 Speaker 1: of this basically last century in Guatemalan history and documentation 669 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: of all kinds of human rights issues that happened during 670 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: that time. So thank you again, Alexia for sending this email. 671 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:56,760 Speaker 1: If you would like to write us, we're at history 672 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: Podcasts at how stuff Works dot com, and then we're 673 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: all over social media at missed in History. You can 674 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: find us on Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram, and Twitter. You can 675 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: also subscribe to our show on Apple podcast, the I 676 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: Heart radio app, and anywhere else to get your podcasts. 677 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of 678 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: I heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for 679 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, 680 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.