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Speaker 1: The Quest Loft Show is a production of iHeartRadio. So

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two, Questlove Supreme started doing one on

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Speaker 1: one interviews and we wanted to get everybody's voices out there,

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Speaker 1: and I jumped at the chance to interview my absolute hero,

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Speaker 1: my personal god, Steve Feroni, of the average white man,

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Speaker 1: who also is drummed for countless people from Tom Petty

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Speaker 1: and the Heartbreakers to Duran Duran to Shaka Khan so

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Speaker 1: many others. In Part one, Steve speaks about his upbringing

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Speaker 1: and Italy, experience of racism, tap dancing also and the

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Speaker 1: journeys of being one of the best drummers on the planet.

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Speaker 1: This meant the entire world to me. Ladies and Joe,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme. I'm giving

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Speaker 1: you full warning right now the center is going to

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Speaker 1: be very awkward. I will try not to make our

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Speaker 1: guest today feel uncomfortable and straight away from fan worship

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Speaker 1: and just try to be as professional as I can.

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Speaker 2: I will say though, that you know, every journey.

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Speaker 1: Has to start with a spark, every journey, so me personally,

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Speaker 1: I will say that, you know, before directing and producing

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Speaker 1: and developing TV shows and podcast hosting and movie and

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Speaker 1: TV scoring and late night house band leading and producing

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Speaker 1: and songwriting for artists and when they djaying, music education, designing, flatwear,

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Speaker 1: my own sneaker line, clothes merch, my own drum line,

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Speaker 1: teaching college, whatever it is, I will say that there

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Speaker 1: still has to be a spark, and that spark starts

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Speaker 1: with a love of music and more specifically playing music

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Speaker 1: and specifically the drums.

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Speaker 2: Everyone knows my passion is drumming.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy five, while on the road with my

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Speaker 1: musician parents in Toronto, Canada, on a Saturday, I caught

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Speaker 1: an episode of my all time favorite television show, Soul Train,

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Speaker 1: and it absolutely peaked my curiosity. You know, I was

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Speaker 1: already a fan of the average white band and they're

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Speaker 1: scary ass logo, but my four year old self was

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Speaker 1: transfixed on the one figure on stage who was neither

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Speaker 1: white nor average, sitting behind a white forty seven wit

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Speaker 1: and gretch drum kit. I kind of made a declaration,

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Speaker 1: mostly to myself, that what that guy's doing, that's what

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Speaker 1: I want to do for the rest of my life.

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Speaker 1: And pretty much from that point, for any album that

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Speaker 1: adorned that weird logo of a white Woman's ass in

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Speaker 1: the place of the w We copped those records, and

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Speaker 1: I studied it and kind of molded myself in our

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Speaker 1: guest image. And what really makes that sentence weird is

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Speaker 1: I think the only time I really allowed myself to

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Speaker 1: morph into the style of our guests was probably seven

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Speaker 1: years into my career. I Want had a side project

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Speaker 1: called The Philadelphia Experiment on a song called Ain't It

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Speaker 1: the Truth, which I kind of immersed myself kind.

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Speaker 2: Of a what would Perny do? Moment?

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Speaker 1: And Look, if I'm talking too much advanced math, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna slow down. Look, even on a hip hop level,

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Speaker 1: his drums are everywhere, nas Is Halftime, Eric Ban Rock

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Speaker 1: Him's microphone Fiend, TLC's Ain't Too Proud to Big track

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Speaker 1: called Quest check the rhyme in ways that they ain't

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Speaker 1: rough any right, Gang Stars Gotta.

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Speaker 2: Get over.

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Speaker 1: Brand, Nubian word is Bond, Jungle Brothers the promo, Jill

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Speaker 1: rob Gs Dope Rhyme's.

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Speaker 2: Start Us Music Sounds Better with You, Kanye West Through

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Speaker 2: the Wire, Mary J.

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Speaker 1: Blige, Love Is All We Need and Love without a Limit,

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Speaker 1: pe Rock and Seale Smooth Take You There. B I

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Speaker 1: G Is Notorious but not even just the samples, just

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Speaker 1: the iconic songs. I'm every woman, Clouds, what You're gonna

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Speaker 1: do for me? All Night, Thing, on the Wings of Love,

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Speaker 1: Tears in Heaven, love a Girl, Earth Song, keep Rising

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Speaker 1: to the top, Glow and name the all the iconic artists,

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Speaker 1: They're not official until he's the timekeeper.

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Speaker 2: Name him.

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Speaker 1: Freddie King, Brian Auger, Bloodstone, Bette Miller, of Retha Franklin, Sherlyn,

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Speaker 1: Paul Simon, Melissa Manchester, I told she's gonna get awkward,

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Speaker 1: Stephen Christy mcviee Scurti, Politti, Mick Jagger, Patty Austin, George Benson, People,

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Speaker 1: Bryce and Jennifer Holliday, Duran Duran, Algerrue, Howard Jones, Cindy Lauper,

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Speaker 1: Anita Baker, George Harrison, Eda, James, Marcus, Miller, Brian Ferry,

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Speaker 1: Tracy Chapman, Johnny Cash, Zickie Marley Slash, Stevie Nicks, LeAnn Rimes,

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Speaker 1: Steve Perry, and of course Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.

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Speaker 1: I will say that pretty much. You know this guy

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Speaker 1: is my hero. Even before Prince, before Michael Jackson, I've

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Speaker 1: been dying to have a conversation with a person that

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Speaker 1: gave me the spark to fall in love with music.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much for talking to me. Steve Farhon,

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Speaker 1: all Right, that wasn't too awkward, right, it was just

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Speaker 1: a five minute No, that.

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Speaker 3: Was that was pretty That was pretty cool. There's a

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Speaker 3: lot of people. I didn't even know that.

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Speaker 1: No, when we did the Elvis Costello episode, Uh, my engineer, Steve,

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Speaker 1: his intro was about twenty four minutes, so my my

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Speaker 1: initial intro was like seventeen, but I cut it down

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Speaker 1: to a good five.

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Speaker 4: But I was one of my favorite rap groups.

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Speaker 2: So which one was it?

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Speaker 4: AMG?

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Speaker 2: Really AMG? That's aw Yeah, Okay, I didn't I didn't

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Speaker 2: even there's that.

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Speaker 3: It's like a Janine they used the they used them

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Speaker 3: a schoolboy crush, okay for Jeanne Janine the reprise.

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Speaker 1: All right, Wow, you're you're you're you're highly aware of

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Speaker 1: how you get utilized. Now, what I'll say that's weird

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Speaker 1: about this moment is the first time that you and

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Speaker 1: I were supposed to talk for Quest Loft Supreme was

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Speaker 1: on March fifteenth, twenty twenty, which is kind officially the

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Speaker 1: day the world shut down because of COVID.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you were.

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Speaker 1: You were doing you were doing a residency at A

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Speaker 1: at A thirty rock sitting in on the SETH Meyers Show,

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Speaker 1: and the day that we were supposed to speak, that's

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Speaker 1: when we realized that we were in a pandemic.

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Speaker 4: So we were in trouble.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we have to put that on ice. Now.

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Speaker 1: What's even weirder is you know I had been begging

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Speaker 1: and begging and begging and begging John Mayer and his

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Speaker 1: people like when you come to New York, I gotta

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Speaker 1: go to the show, so.

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Speaker 2: You know, to really enjoy the experience.

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Speaker 1: So to speak, our listeners know that in the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: I started micro redosing, So.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was, I was in my zone. I was.

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Speaker 1: I arrived at Madison Square Garden. I was ready to

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Speaker 1: really take in the music and enjoy the show. And

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Speaker 1: the first thing I do when I see Pino Palladino,

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Speaker 1: he tells me do And of course you know, I

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Speaker 1: was microdocent.

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Speaker 5: So it sounds like a mirror for Roon tested positive

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Speaker 5: Can you sit in? And I was like huh what like?

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Speaker 5: And literally I was like, well, let me see the

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Speaker 5: set list?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, wait a minute, I had to

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Speaker 1: learn fifteen songs and how many minutes and they're like

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Speaker 1: forty seven minutes.

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Speaker 2: So literally I was like, oh no, m boy.

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Speaker 1: So you know it's it's like I didn't get to

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Speaker 1: talk to you, but I got to play on your

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Speaker 1: drum set. And what's even weirder is that after two

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Speaker 1: and a half years of avoiding this dodgeball of a virus,

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Speaker 1: today I finally tested positive.

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Speaker 4: So welcome to the club.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, we're connected, man, we are connected.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god?

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Speaker 1: How you so you know what it's It's like having

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Speaker 1: the sniffles, like I was expecting my taste to go

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Speaker 1: away and all that stuff. I'm I'm having a Paul man.

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Speaker 1: I'm stay in bed all week. I'm watching movies. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna work. You know, I'm working on the Sliding Family

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Speaker 1: Stone documentary now, so you know, I'm in fine health.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't be happier.

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Speaker 4: Before I forget congratulations on the OSCO All.

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Speaker 2: Right, my man, thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 4: You are God. You are way too hard for me.

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Speaker 2: We don't work hard, but I work I work fun.

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Speaker 2: Were are you right?

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Speaker 3: Now? As we speak, I'm at a friend of mine's

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Speaker 3: house in Burbank because my house is being torn apart

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Speaker 3: by contractors.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we have a lot in common.

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Speaker 1: I also purchased a farm about a year and a

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Speaker 1: half ago, and I'm still it's almost it's almost in

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Speaker 1: money pit territory.

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Speaker 2: So contractors, you know, are working on.

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Speaker 4: These to fire my contact. Yes, it's going.

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Speaker 1: Same same you too, same guys. I got I got

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Speaker 1: downs two years ago and now you know we're still

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Speaker 1: we're still waiting for it. I didn't I just had

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Speaker 1: to free so I'll work. There's just way too much

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Speaker 1: money to invest in it, so I gotta wait until

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Speaker 1: maybe October, so it'll probably be three years before I

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Speaker 1: get inside my home.

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Speaker 4: It'll get done when it's supposed to get done. That's

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Speaker 4: what I can.

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Speaker 2: Say, absolutely absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I start off with every episode with

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Speaker 1: the first five basic questions. Number one for our listening artists,

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Speaker 1: could you tell us where you were born?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I was born in Brighton in England, in the south

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Speaker 3: coast of England, bat now south of London.

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Speaker 1: I will say that probably Brighton, England ninety four is

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Speaker 1: probably the second best Root show.

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Speaker 2: Of all time. What did you play?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. We did a gig with Roy Ayers,

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Speaker 1: and that's where we discovered that the engineer of our

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Speaker 1: show is just as important as the musicians on stage.

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Speaker 1: And we kind of learned, you know, because the thing is,

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Speaker 1: it's like, unlike America, Brighton at least has an understanding.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's that a lot of reggae

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Speaker 1: concerts over there, but they have a deeper understanding of bass.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we realized, like we would just push

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Speaker 1: the sound limit like the average show.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you trust the sound.

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Speaker 1: Company, maybe you're allowed to do like one hundred and

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Speaker 1: two dbs, maybe one hundred and eight dbs like we

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Speaker 1: were one hundred and forty DB's.

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Speaker 2: We weren't loud, but we just had a lot of bass.

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Speaker 1: And so at the point where the audience was holding

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Speaker 1: their stomach, like you know, they were getting a colonic,

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Speaker 1: they still dance, yeah, but still dancing, we realized, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we have to be the most offensively loudest band in music.

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Speaker 1: And so, you know, we maybe the first three years

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Speaker 1: we were like everyone's nightmare, but nothing compares to that

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Speaker 1: one night with roy Aers in nineteen ninety four in Brighton, Like,

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Speaker 1: I know, you just celebrated.

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Speaker 2: A birthday yeah, seventy two.

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Speaker 1: Yes, happy belated, thank you. So I know that you

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Speaker 1: were born in nineteen fifty. Now you weren't born in

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Speaker 1: the States, you know, dealing with Jim cro Deep South racism.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I'm certain that it was alive and

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Speaker 1: well across the world. But what does it mean to

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Speaker 1: grow up at least for the first ten years of

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Speaker 1: your life in Brighton, Like, what experiences did you have?

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Speaker 3: You know, Well, there's a there's a photographs not around here.

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Speaker 3: I wish I had it with me in my house.

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Speaker 3: There's a photograph of me at school. I was like

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Speaker 3: the only black kid in school and we're watching a

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Speaker 3: Punch and Judy show and guess what, we were just

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Speaker 3: having fun. It didn't come into the question that I

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Speaker 3: was a different color ever. I mean when I was

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Speaker 3: when I was little kay until one day that I

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Speaker 3: was out with my friends and.

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Speaker 4: We were playing. I lived in a row of houses.

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Speaker 3: On a street, and then there was there was this

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Speaker 3: alleyway that led up to this little cottage, and then

222
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Speaker 3: there was this crescent with big houses. And in this

223
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Speaker 3: cottage at the top of this little alleyway, there was

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Speaker 3: a guy that was a retired Harley Harley Street surgeon.

225
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Speaker 3: And so we used to play up. There was a

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Speaker 3: couple of trees and we'd play cowboys and Indians and stuff.

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Speaker 3: And we got a bit too close to this guy's

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Speaker 3: house and he came out with the swordstick and and

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Speaker 3: he pulled his swordstick and he said, get out of here,

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Speaker 3: making all that noise made, And he looked right at

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Speaker 3: me with this point. I said, you two black bastard.

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Speaker 3: And I had no idea what it was that he said, right.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know. I didn't know well what that meant,

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Speaker 3: you know, but I felt it. I burst in the

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Speaker 3: tears and I ran home and I told my grandmother.

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Speaker 2: Who are you living with your grandparents?

237
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Speaker 3: Living in my grandparents and my mom yeah, And my.

238
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Speaker 4: Father was in West Africa serially O wow, okay, okay,

239
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Speaker 4: but he was never around. I mean he showed up

240
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Speaker 4: when I was nine for a couple of days. I

241
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Speaker 4: was about it.

242
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Speaker 3: But my grandmother then told got my grandfather and did

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Speaker 3: one of those defend my honor?

244
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Speaker 2: Oh you went to the house.

245
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Speaker 3: He went to the house, and my grandfather went up

246
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Speaker 3: there and grabbed this guy and him up against the

247
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Speaker 3: wall and said, don't you ever talk to.

248
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Speaker 4: My grandson like d again.

249
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Speaker 2: But uh uh oh wow.

250
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Speaker 3: The way that it got explained to me at that

251
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Speaker 3: point in time, I think probably I was maybe five

252
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Speaker 3: or six years old, as a little kid. My mother

253
00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,360
Speaker 3: said to me that, she said, you know what, there's

254
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,880
Speaker 3: people out there that think that way, and uh and

255
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,600
Speaker 3: there to be pitied, which was something that wasn't desirable

256
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Speaker 3: as far as I didn't want.

257
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,800
Speaker 4: I didn't want to ever be pitied. And so anyway, so.

258
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Speaker 3: That's that's what that's that's the way I kind of

259
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:36,200
Speaker 3: looked at it. But yes, you're absolutely right, there's there's

260
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,240
Speaker 3: there was a big difference, the big difference. I believe

261
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:45,320
Speaker 3: those social problems that bruised Black America and and and

262
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,920
Speaker 3: I see that, I see it and I and and

263
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,800
Speaker 3: it's different for me because slavery never came into it.

264
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Speaker 2: Wow, that's amazing. I can't even imagine a life there.

265
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:03,040
Speaker 3: Is racist ray. Yes, slavery didn't know. I think there's

266
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,520
Speaker 3: a difference in the in the in the way that things.

267
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Speaker 2: You know, it's weird.

268
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Speaker 1: So in the States, I'm I'm part of a one

269
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Speaker 1: percent that's there's one percent of African Americans that can

270
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,480
Speaker 1: trace their family name, their slave ship and where they

271
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Speaker 1: came from.

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Speaker 2: I'm in that lucky few. I also found out that

273
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Speaker 2: Elo cool j.

274
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Speaker 1: Is there was two percent of African Americans that had

275
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,840
Speaker 1: nothing to do with slavery. I guess his family settled

276
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Speaker 1: in a place in Ohio that just didn't have slavery,

277
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:42,360
Speaker 1: and like somehow he was able to his family was

278
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,720
Speaker 1: able to avoid any of that strife, which is, you know,

279
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Speaker 1: kind of a rare thing.

280
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Speaker 2: Can you tell me what your first musical memory was?

281
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Speaker 3: Oh?

282
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,360
Speaker 4: Well, you know what I was told.

283
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,360
Speaker 3: Was was that I used to sit in the high

284
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,840
Speaker 3: chair and we didn't have TV back then.

285
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Speaker 4: We had radio, okay, And I'd.

286
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,080
Speaker 3: Sit in the high chair with my spoon eating and

287
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,360
Speaker 3: then some music would come on and I'd start banging

288
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,960
Speaker 3: my spoon on the on the on the high chair

289
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,320
Speaker 3: table there to just keeping time with whatever music was

290
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,640
Speaker 3: on the radio. And that's was when they they decided that.

291
00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,840
Speaker 4: My grand my grandma, my grandmother, and my.

292
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:29,120
Speaker 3: Mother decided that I needed to channel that that ability somewhere.

293
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,680
Speaker 3: So my grandmother was a big fan of of of

294
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 3: tap dancing. She she loved Fred Astaire and Jim Kelly

295
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,120
Speaker 3: and Tic Tac Toe and those guys. Was. She was

296
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,480
Speaker 3: aware of them, and so she sent me to tap

297
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,400
Speaker 3: dancing school when I was better, as soon as I

298
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 3: could walk, at about three years old.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say, I just discovered that

300
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,560
Speaker 1: about you maybe a week ago when I was doing

301
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,920
Speaker 1: my research, and that's kind of my entry and too.

302
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:57,480
Speaker 2: Drums.

303
00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 1: I went to perform an arts school in the grade,

304
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,040
Speaker 1: and it was one of those situations where you go to.

305
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,040
Speaker 2: Your drum lesson and the drums are right.

306
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,040
Speaker 1: There and you're sort of like, let me at them,

307
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,320
Speaker 1: let me at him, and they're like nope, and they

308
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,240
Speaker 1: point to a practice pad on the corner and you

309
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,600
Speaker 1: got to learn, like your roommate's like, it's almost like

310
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,520
Speaker 1: I had to practice to work my way up to

311
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,000
Speaker 1: the drum set. But even before I got to the

312
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,360
Speaker 1: practice pad, Yeah.

313
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,399
Speaker 2: I had to take tap dance.

314
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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, all that bow jangles me and my

315
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,320
Speaker 1: shadow like like I was, I was a hoofer, Like.

316
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Speaker 4: Good, were you good at it?

317
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,840
Speaker 3: I was pretty good at it. I was pretty good

318
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Speaker 3: at it. I want medals and stuff?

319
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,920
Speaker 2: Really, can you can you still hoof now? Or is that.

320
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:49,159
Speaker 4: Replacement?

321
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:50,160
Speaker 2: Okay?

322
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,439
Speaker 4: I got that light on my feet anymore?

323
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,800
Speaker 3: But I could probably I can probably I can do

324
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:57,600
Speaker 3: a timestep still, okay.

325
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like around around maybe nine, age nine or age ten,

326
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,800
Speaker 2: I kind of eased out of that and just became

327
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:06,040
Speaker 2: strictly like music.

328
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:07,919
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I.

329
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,280
Speaker 3: Have to say my first, like my moment that you had,

330
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,200
Speaker 3: that you said that you had with Average White Band,

331
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,680
Speaker 3: I had when I was about five years old. My

332
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,359
Speaker 3: parents used to take me. They used to take me.

333
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 3: We had this I guess you call it Vaudeville or

334
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:24,560
Speaker 3: something like that.

335
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:25,560
Speaker 4: Vaudeville.

336
00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:30,760
Speaker 3: There was a theater called the Hippodrome in and the

337
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,640
Speaker 3: Beatles played there actually, so it's kind of bingo hall

338
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,199
Speaker 3: now I think it is. But this is one of

339
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,080
Speaker 3: those theaters that got sort of neglected and sort of

340
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,600
Speaker 3: let go little theater. And they used to take me

341
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 3: there to see these shows. And you know, usually it

342
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:53,520
Speaker 3: was comedians and pantomime at Christmas and stuff. And they

343
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,800
Speaker 3: took me there to see this show. And there was

344
00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,000
Speaker 3: a band. There was a band, a close harmony group

345
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 3: called the Deep River Boys Deep River Boys from Brooklyn,

346
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 3: oh really, and they were very very big on radio.

347
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,880
Speaker 4: Luxembourg was was where you would where.

348
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,880
Speaker 3: People would go to to listen to something other than

349
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,480
Speaker 3: the BBC, because the BBC used to just play classical

350
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 3: music and it wasn't they didn't play anything at all,

351
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 3: you know. So you go to Radio Luxembourg and you

352
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,800
Speaker 3: tune into Radio Luxembourg and they had a show on

353
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,960
Speaker 3: there and and I guess they also it was also

354
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,159
Speaker 3: a show that was that was that was good for

355
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,480
Speaker 3: like uh, the the American Forces were all over Europe

356
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,439
Speaker 3: at that point. They had the basis in France and

357
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,359
Speaker 3: Germany and and uh and and so they used to

358
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,840
Speaker 3: be on that on on the American Forces broadcasting. But

359
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,119
Speaker 3: they had a regular show on this on this and

360
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 3: they they on Radio Luxembourg and they appeared at the Hippodrome.

361
00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,280
Speaker 3: So my parents took me down there and they did

362
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,680
Speaker 3: maybe it was kind of like gospel music, but I'd

363
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 3: never heard anything like that, and I got really excited

364
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 3: and started dancing around in the in the.

365
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,159
Speaker 4: Audience listening to this music is like what's this? You know?

366
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:08,159
Speaker 4: Oh wow? Where it is that?

367
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 3: Even you find vanilla ice cream, you give a vanilla

368
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 3: I skream to a baby first time they have it,

369
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 3: They're like, why didn't you give me this before? You know,

370
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 3: you got to build this baby food? Why where was

371
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 3: this vanilla ice cream. Well that was what what what

372
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,360
Speaker 3: what I got with from their music, and they sent

373
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 3: them manager. They took me and they brought me backstage

374
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 3: and befriended, befriended me.

375
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 4: They made me Deep River Boys number six. And that

376
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,639
Speaker 4: was the time. That was when I found out that

377
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:34,399
Speaker 4: I was black.

378
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 2: Oh word, okay, Yeah, I.

379
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 4: Had no idea.

380
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,800
Speaker 3: I had no idea that I was black until I

381
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 3: went and saw these guys and they took me back

382
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 3: back to my parents, my grandma, my mom, and my

383
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,679
Speaker 3: grandmother took me backstage to meet them, you know, with

384
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 3: the they've been invited back. And I looked at these

385
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 3: guys and they were six foot tall, which was then

386
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 3: back then was gigantic, was a giant, and I said,

387
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 3: I wish I could be black black.

388
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 4: You guys, we.

389
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,679
Speaker 3: Used the word back then. We never said black was

390
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,200
Speaker 3: colored because it was respectful. It was disrespectful to say

391
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 3: black black. So I wish I was colored like you.

392
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 3: And this guy Harry Douglas, who I stayed in touch

393
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 3: with for years, he passed away sometimes sometime ago.

394
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 2: You matained a friendship with him, Yes, all.

395
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 4: Through the years.

396
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,439
Speaker 3: Yes, it was just amazing and uh, and it.

397
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,439
Speaker 1: Was the first Americans that you interacted with. Yes, well, yes,

398
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,959
Speaker 1: how weird was it to hear? Did they have an

399
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:37,640
Speaker 1: accent to you?

400
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 4: I didn't even know. I was just like, I was

401
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:41,680
Speaker 4: just so sweet.

402
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 3: I mean, they that's how they sang, and they sang,

403
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 3: they sang like they were Yeah.

404
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 4: We heard. It seemed like we sort of heard about America.

405
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:51,640
Speaker 3: And I think we had TV by then, so there'd

406
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 3: be a couple of TV series that we've seen. Not

407
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 3: much of a TV little thing like this black White thing, right.

408
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 3: But but Harry Douglas looked at me and he and

409
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 3: he said to me, he says, you know, tonight, I'm

410
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 3: going to cause a spell. And when you wake up

411
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 3: tomorrow morning, you go look in the mirror and you

412
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 3: and you'll be you'll be colored like we are.

413
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 4: I want to sleep. I went to sleep, and then

414
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 4: I got up and I went to the mirror and wanted, yes,

415
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 4: it whatked? I haven't got anything more about it?

416
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 2: Oh God, that's a great story.

417
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

418
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 1: Do you know what the first LP or single that

419
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 1: you gravitated towards?

420
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I remember I used to I used

421
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,120
Speaker 3: to listen a lot to Motown m hm.

422
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 2: So northern soil was a thing then that more than sixties.

423
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 4: It was, Yeah, it was.

424
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 3: It was more of a MUDs and rockers. You know,

425
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 3: we had these two factions for warring factions. And the

426
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 3: rockers used to listen to sort of Elvis Presley, sort

427
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 3: of the rock and roll and skiffle music, and the

428
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 3: mods used to listen to to The Who and Motown

429
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 3: and Motown and that.

430
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 4: And that was funny because we all everybody started to

431
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:17,919
Speaker 4: play air base. You know.

432
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 3: It went from playing like air guitar or just air drums.

433
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,640
Speaker 3: When Motown came out, everybody was.

434
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 2: So that's what you grab it to it, Okay, digging.

435
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:27,479
Speaker 4: On James Jamison.

436
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, But when it came to like playing an instrument,

437
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 3: the drums was I'd learned. I figured out the mechanics

438
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 3: are doing that. But playing in a I got it.

439
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 3: I actually got a job when I was twelve and

440
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 3: in a in a real show. And while I was

441
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 3: on the show, in the kids chorus of this summer show,

442
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 3: tap dancing and singing with this a guy named Max

443
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 3: Bygraves who was a big star in England. I looked

444
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 3: down into the orchestra pit and we did this. We

445
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 3: there this thing where it all up yet there doing

446
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 3: the twist. You know, let's twist again. We'd all have

447
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 3: to be out there twisted little kids with this guy.

448
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 3: And I looked down and I saw the how she

449
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 3: doesn't have these hands like that, you know, And so

450
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 3: I went upstairs and practiced that, and then I thought, well,

451
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 3: then I had listened a bit more when I was

452
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 3: up there twisted.

453
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 4: And said what's he doing with his feet?

454
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 2: Wow?

455
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 4: Yeah?

456
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 2: So what what? Uh?

457
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 1: Well, I'll re asked the question, do you know what

458
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: the first single or album that you purchased with your

459
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: own money?

460
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 2: Because I think it's a little different than.

461
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 4: Sadly, what is it the first single?

462
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 3: I'll it was my mother's birthday and I asked her

463
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 3: what she wanted for a birthday, and she said she

464
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 3: wanted Green Green Grass of Home.

465
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 2: Who sings that?

466
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 4: Frank? I think it was Frank Gifield.

467
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 2: Oh wow, I look and there it comes Mary Lives.

468
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: That's what.

469
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 4: Went into the record. So can I get a company

470
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 4: of that?

471
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

472
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 1: A lot of people and say like Jackson five or

473
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 1: some of the but the real answer is, uh, I

474
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: think the forty five ever purchased was Bad Blood by

475
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: Nil saidaka and only only because really I judged I

476
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: lived in a house with like over three thousand records

477
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: because my parents were musicians, and the Rocket Company, which

478
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: was Elton John's label, Nil Saidaka's label. I judge records

479
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: on how good the logo looked rotating on the forty five.

480
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 1: So I liked the green and blue hue of MCA

481
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: Rocket Records, and so I chose Bad Blood. So the

482
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 1: first time that you actually sat on a drum set,

483
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: like who taught you how to play the drums? Like,

484
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: what's your what's your entry into sitting on a drum set?

485
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 3: Well, I just what happened was was that when I

486
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 3: went to when I was after we've done this, TV

487
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 3: is run this this show, the summer show. There was

488
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 3: a place called the Regent Ballroom in Brighton and that

489
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 3: is not there anymore.

490
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 4: It's Boots Chemists now. But on Saturday mornings they would

491
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 4: have they'd have it open.

492
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 3: There would be a disc jockey and or people would

493
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 3: take their kids there and drop their kids off there

494
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 3: and then they go shopping. They go and do their shopping,

495
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 3: they leave their kids. There were safe places on the

496
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 3: b and the kids would dance.

497
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 1: And so DJ culture was a thing in the sixties

498
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: where yeah, yeah, you put a record or on you

499
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: hear it over a PA system.

500
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, we had they had two things that

501
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 3: they had a live band and then the stage would

502
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 3: revolve and there would be a disc jockey, and so

503
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 3: they would they would the band would take a break,

504
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 3: and then the dis jockey would be out there and

505
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 3: play the records.

506
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 4: And we used to like them the records.

507
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 3: A lot more than the band, yeah, because the band

508
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 3: played the old stuff. Really there was sort of like

509
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 3: a ballroom band, you know. The disc jockey used to

510
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 3: play the motown and we used to love that, loved it.

511
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 2: Yeah wow, okay, yeah.

512
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 4: And and so we were we were there.

513
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 3: We used to go there on a Saturday morning and

514
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 3: me and my me and you know, a young boys

515
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 3: with the raging hormones who go up to these young

516
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 3: girls and and they dance with us.

517
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 4: You know, we might get a kiss on the cheek

518
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 4: and that was it. It was finished.

519
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 3: You know.

520
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 4: That was a lot. Well, one day, Manfred Man's band

521
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 4: they were playing that night.

522
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 3: At the in the in the in the in the ballroom, right,

523
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 3: and they set up early when we were all in there,

524
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 3: and they played I think, I guess they did their

525
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 3: sound check and they played for us little kids and

526
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 3: every and every every little, every little twelve year old

527
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 3: girl and there went completely crazy about this band, like

528
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 3: like they were the Beatles, screaming. And so I said

529
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 3: to my friends, we're doing we're doing it all wrong.

530
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 3: We need we need to be that, we need to

531
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 3: be a man. Yeah, so we put we started playing.

532
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 3: We got we just I got a toy. I had

533
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 3: a toy drum kit, and I had those motor skills.

534
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 4: I knew where to do it.

535
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 3: And the only song there was a guy that he

536
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 3: had a real guitar, but he had an old record

537
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 3: player that his dad had changed into being an amplifier

538
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 3: and there okay, yeah, and he played and we played

539
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 3: saw standing there at the t chests with the string

540
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 3: and the tech that was a that's that was the

541
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 3: bass in that's and that's all we could play with

542
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 3: saws standing there and we did that.

543
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: Let me make sure I'm clear on this. You mean

544
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: Manford Man, the actual blinded by the Light guys. Yeah, okay,

545
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: see I know him from their seventy six I didn't

546
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: realize yeah yeah history.

547
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah for then yeah yeah, yeah.

548
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 3: Oh, and so we were we would we would go

549
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 3: and play in the afternoons at friend's house.

550
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 4: He couldn't do it. My grandfather, Yeah, he was.

551
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 3: He was a meltman, and he would go out and

552
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 3: start work at three o'clock in the morning, and he

553
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 3: didn't want to.

554
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 4: He hated music all kinds.

555
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 3: The only thing you like was classical music, and anything

556
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 3: young was just he didn't like anything about young.

557
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: Kids noise, right, okay.

558
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we go up to another friend's house and

559
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 3: we'd set up and we'd play with this little toy

560
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 3: drum kid thing that I had. My grandmother bought me

561
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 3: a snare drum for Christmas, a real one. And the

562
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 3: guy with the guitar because he had a real instrument,

563
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 3: his father, his father on the gas station.

564
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: Okay.

565
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 4: He used to go and hang out in the music.

566
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 3: Stores, which is where all the older kids that had

567
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 3: bands used to hang out.

568
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 4: Okay, right, so yeah, there's these there's these big kids

569
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 4: what they we.

570
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 3: Call them big kids because here we are twelve year

571
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 3: olds and there's his like eighteen year old kids, sixteen, seventeen,

572
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 3: eighteen year old kids that had started playing bands, playing

573
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 3: making bands and could play but we had money, had

574
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 3: jobs because someone would leave score at fifteen and they

575
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 3: would they would buy and save up and buy an

576
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 3: instrument and make a band. So this kid was there

577
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 3: trying to be in a little twelve year old I

578
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 3: got a real guitar, trying to hang out with these

579
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 3: older kids.

580
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 4: And there was a bunch of guys in there.

581
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 3: The way gigs used to be got, there would be

582
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 3: a bulletin board, right, they put a bulletin board in

583
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 3: the music shop. And if you if you wanted a geek,

584
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 3: you go and look at the bulletin and see who

585
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 3: was who was looking for a drummer, who was looking

586
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 3: for a guitarists or.

587
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 4: You know, and and and and.

588
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 3: They put up this thing and they were talking to

589
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 3: the propriety of the store and they were saying, to

590
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 3: our drummer's got to go and get his appendix out,

591
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 3: and we need we got a gig at a youth

592
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 3: club on Saturday night, and we need to get if.

593
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 4: I hear any drummers coming in here.

594
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 3: My friend took his life into his hands, talking to

595
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 3: like older kids like that and said, I know a drummer.

596
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 3: And they said, well, who's that? And they said, well,

597
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 3: you know, good thing. He said, you're a blues band, right,

598
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 3: the Flames they called them.

599
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, where this guy? He's black?

600
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 3: So that was that was the first. That was the first.

601
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 3: They said that as old as he's he's twelve years old.

602
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 3: They said, well is he any good? And get yeah,

603
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 3: you can play it. He said, okay, hav him come

604
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 3: over and meet us at this at this house. And

605
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 3: so this kid and we no telephone, you know, you

606
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 3: had to come over to my house.

607
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 4: He said. There's these big kids and they got a

608
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 4: band and they're looking for a drummer. And I'm like, well, big.

609
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 3: Kids, because big kids used to beat up kids like

610
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 3: my sights, you know.

611
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 4: And he said yeah.

612
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 3: So so I went over there and I took my

613
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 3: life in my hands and I walked in there, and

614
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 3: I sat down and I played a few songs with them,

615
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 3: and and and they said, okay, well you can come

616
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 3: play the youth.

617
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 4: Club with us and pass the test. Passed the test, yeah,

618
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 4: because I knew. I knew songs.

619
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 3: You know, it was for the tap dancing you feel

620
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 3: you were, you know, I knew introduction versus chorus bridge,

621
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 3: you know, and and and and and how the dynamic

622
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 3: the dynamic of a song, so I could kind of

623
00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 3: follow that. I didn't even have to know the song

624
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 3: follow it.

625
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: There's one time I went to not an all white school,

626
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: but there's one time I went to. I was playing

627
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: a pick up a game of basketball, so naturally, you know,

628
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: the white kids thought like, well, we'll take a mirror

629
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: because he's black.

630
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 2: And yeah, I was in a sports game. I found out.

631
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 3: They made be captain of the football team. Dude, really,

632
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 3: I said, yeah, that's useless.

633
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 4: I was useless.

634
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: That means you're a room musician. I always say that

635
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: room musicians don't know sports.

636
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, man.

637
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: Well, one, you're saying you were twelve, which basically means

638
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: that this is sixty two.

639
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

640
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: You know, for the United States, the what we call

641
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: the British invasion will happen in a year, a year

642
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: and a half. What is the Well, you lived in

643
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: the British invasion, so I guess it wasn't a big

644
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: deal to you. So what is the effect of white

645
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: based blues these teams that are listening to these blues

646
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: records and starting rock bands, Like, how how influential was

647
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: it was?

648
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 3: It was extremely you know, because this is what happened.

649
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 3: You know, these older kids, they knew somehow, I don't

650
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 3: know how, but they knew about Muddy Waters, Sonny Terry

651
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 3: and Brownie McGee lad and Hopkins. Oh, they knew all

652
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 3: about that stuff, and that those guys.

653
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 4: Had a tour and they would come and play the

654
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 4: Dome in Brighton.

655
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

656
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 4: And so Bill Doggett, he was my least favorite.

657
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: You ain't Bill Doggett. He is my least favorite.

658
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 3: But now and listening to him, I got to wonder why, right,

659
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 3: But when at that time I loved John Lee Hooker.

660
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 3: John Lee Hooker was just and Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee.

661
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 4: I loved it.

662
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 3: And they and so these guys they come around every

663
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 3: year and the band that I was, this band that

664
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 3: I was playing.

665
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 4: With, they take me, these eighteen year old kids would

666
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 4: take me right to see it.

667
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 3: I mean, I would have paid more attention had I

668
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 3: had I known what I was watching, right, you know,

669
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 3: But I got to see those guys. It was incredible,

670
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 3: and that was that was the start of it for me.

671
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 1: I'm currently trying to shop there's someone that's written a

672
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 1: series based on a lot of those Chicago blues legends

673
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: coming over to Germany, coming over to the UK, finding

674
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:36,439
Speaker 1: a new audience over there.

675
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 2: We're trying to shop that series.

676
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 3: Right, they knew who they were, right, I mean, we

677
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 3: didn't have computers and stuff to look at these pod

678
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 3: Who the hell is that?

679
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 4: Yeah?

680
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 2: What's good?

681
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 1: Because you know they couldn't get arrested in the United States?

682
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 3: You know, well, yeah, if they could get arrested in

683
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 3: the United States. So I remember seeing that that that

684
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 3: movie about Standing in the Shadows of Motor Down, when

685
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 3: they were absolutely shocked when they arrived in England that

686
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 3: people would say, come up and say, who's James Jamison?

687
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 4: Which one I used? James Jamison? They were like, how

688
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 4: do you know about James Jamison? Which one of us? Benny?

689
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 4: Which one he used? Benny Benjamin. We knew that all

690
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 4: those people were were you.

691
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 1: Were you developing any heroes? Like who would you say,

692
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: is the first drumming hero that you had? Okay, up, yeah,

693
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I know, I knew you guys

694
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: covered what his Soul on the seventy seven Benny and

695
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:34,959
Speaker 1: Us record?

696
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 2: Was that your idea to cover that song?

697
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 3: Yes, because that was the first time that I ever

698
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 3: heard jrumps pay with syncopation like that I was were

699
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 3: I was working, I said, when I was about fourteen

700
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 3: years old, I started to go like in summer. I

701
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 3: left school at fifteen, but we started to go over

702
00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 3: and work American bases in France. And I remember it,

703
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 3: it was yesterday. I was in the in the There

704
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 3: was a place called the Casern and it was in

705
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,399
Speaker 3: ta in the middle of France. And we were there

706
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 3: playing at the Enlisted Man's Club, and and we could

707
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 3: eat on the base. So we go to the we'd

708
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 3: stay off the base, but we could go to the

709
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 3: base and eat on the base and go to the

710
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 3: can and there was a we we sort of went

711
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 3: and sat down near the juke box so we could

712
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 3: hear the music that was on there. Couldn't afford to

713
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 3: buy anything, but right, and this, uh, this black gi

714
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 3: in these fatigues, the green fatigues that they used to wear.

715
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 3: He sort of sauntered over there, sort of skinny that

716
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 3: I remember seeing him do it, and he popped in

717
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 3: whatever it was called a dime, whatever they put in there,

718
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 3: and he hit some numbers and walked away, and I

719
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 3: heard shout.

720
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: It out, Dug, dug, and what what what was that?

721
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 4: I heard, I heard, I heard Charlie Watts. I never

722
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 4: heard drums played like that. Where did that come from?

723
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:00,439
Speaker 3: Wow?

724
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 4: So I went over and I had to look what

725
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 4: records that? Oh? Then eat King? What is so?

726
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: So how do you know who's playing drums? Because I

727
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: don't know if album credits are even a thing like

728
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: when I was You know, Purdy did a session for

729
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: my dad in like seventy four, so that's how I

730
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: got to meet him.

731
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,879
Speaker 2: But how do you know who is what?

732
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 4: And well, I don't know.

733
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 3: I found out that it was Putty, but maybe it

734
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 3: got the album or something or us around and somebody

735
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 3: somebody else knew I.

736
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 4: Got to know. We couldn't look it up on the computer.

737
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 3: I don't remember having an album with that with any

738
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 3: information on it.

739
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 4: But somebody told me, oh, that's been Puddy.

740
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 1: Okay, well you mentioned sort of dropping out at fifteen.

741
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: When you do that in your mind, is it like okay,

742
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: do or die? I have to be a musician? And

743
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 1: how does your family feel about this decision?

744
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 4: It was it was revenge. You know, it's class system

745
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 4: in England.

746
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 3: I wasn't supposed to be anything more than maybe a

747
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 3: bus driver or plumber.

748
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 4: I wasn't. I wasn't gonna.

749
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 3: I wasn't going to stay an extra year at school

750
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 3: and become a banker or like a working a bank

751
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,959
Speaker 3: clerk or civil servant or something like that.

752
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 4: I was.

753
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 3: It kind of started. I mean I sort of stayed in.

754
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 3: We had forms A, B, C, D forms. I was

755
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 3: in the A form. I was kind of in. I

756
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 3: could hover in the middle of the A form. I

757
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 3: wasn't done, okay. I decided that I wanted to play drums,

758
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 3: and especially you know since now at Ringo Star have

759
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 3: become a huge star, right Charlie Watts. These were like

760
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 3: normal guys. They weren't upper upper upper class, upper cross

761
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 3: or anything here like they were like us Keith Moon

762
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 3: I used to play my band used to open for

763
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 3: the Hoop and they played him with Bright in a

764
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 3: little little club. Yeah.

765
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 2: Was he destroying his kit back then or well.

766
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 3: Not in the beginning, but then he started to once

767
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 3: they started, once they started to give him equipment and

768
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 3: the whole story behind that.

769
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 4: But I used to go I take pieces of it

770
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 4: for spares for Mike.

771
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 3: I had an Olympic drum kit, a little Olympic which

772
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 3: is at wasn't it wasn't a gigster. Gigster was was

773
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 3: the was the was It was the really cheap, horrible thing, right,

774
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 3: and then he had Olympic, which was intermediate, and then premiere. Right,

775
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 3: but I had this Olympic thing, and but and the

776
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 3: premiere stuff would like different lugs and stuff would fit

777
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 3: on there.

778
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 4: You So if I had stuff that broke, I could

779
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 4: take that.

780
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,439
Speaker 3: And Keith Moon would take a sledgehammer to his drum

781
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 3: kit and just smash it into matchwood, and I'd say,

782
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 3: to the road, can I have yeah, sure to take it.

783
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 2: Really.

784
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: Pete Townsend destroyed the guitar on the Tonight Show and

785
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: the let me have it, so okay, well it was

786
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: like it was like a ukulelele.

787
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 2: But still you know, it's like a guitar.

788
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 3: But like I'm saying though that this was pears that

789
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 3: were that were that we're doing it. So when they

790
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 3: started to ask me when I was like fourteen year olds,

791
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 3: you know, what what do you want to do when

792
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 3: you leave school? And I said, oh, I want to

793
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 3: be a drummer. I want to I want to play drums.

794
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 3: And they said you can't do that. I said why not?

795
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 3: And they said, well because it's not a real job.

796
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 3: So I said, well, ringo star, does it? Charlie wats

797
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 3: does it? Yeah, but you know you're a ringo star.

798
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 3: And then they started to call me ringo and I

799
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: used to I used to. I used to play football.

800
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 3: I was not They may be captain, but I wasn't

801
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 3: any good at the captain. I used to box at school.

802
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 3: I was pretty good boxing.

803
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: Okay, wait you were there was boxing curriculum and hid yeah.

804
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 4: Oh yeah yeah, until one kid got killed and then

805
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 4: they stopped it. There was a couple of years.

806
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 3: But but but they they we boxing at school and

807
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 3: I was always all right, had that And I used

808
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 3: to do that for the school. And I used to

809
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 3: run track at school. But when they started to mock

810
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 3: me about what I wanted to do about music, then

811
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 3: I went on strike and I said, right, that's it.

812
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: I'm going to play music. I'm not going to do

813
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 3: this anymore. And I rebelled, complete rebellion. I'd go into

814
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,439
Speaker 3: go into exams and I'd sit there and they'd say

815
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 3: you got five minutes to just read the stuff through.

816
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 3: I'd sit there and then they ring the bell say okay,

817
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 3: start start working. I put up my hand and say

818
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 3: can't do it. Wow, I said, can't do it. It's

819
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 3: too difficult, can't do it.

820
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 4: We'll try.

821
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 3: I don't honor, and they wouldn't want to argue with me,

822
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 3: so I just say, okay, get out, and I'd leave.

823
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 4: I go play drums.

824
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 2: What was what was considered making a good living as

825
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: a musician, at least at that point in your life.

826
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 3: Within nine pounds a week with a bit of a fortune.

827
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 3: You know when I when I left and Let's school

828
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 3: and got a job, I was earning like four pounds

829
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 3: a week. You know, four pounds went a lot further than.

830
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 4: It does now.

831
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 2: But but oh because of place, yes.

832
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 4: But it was still very little, very little money.

833
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 3: Give it about one pound fifty to my mom for

834
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 3: rent and.

835
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 4: Really, yeah, okay, That's how I was brought.

836
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: Up eventually, I know, in your mind, is it is

837
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: the goal to make it in America? Is the goal

838
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: to get on the radio? Is the goal to play

839
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: a large theater? Like what's the first step? And you

840
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: making it?

841
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 3: Never really had any particular ambition at all and any

842
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 3: anything except to play, to play music.

843
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 4: And make a living at it.

844
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, I mean I did the starving

845
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 3: musician bit in London, you know, and with a couple

846
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 3: of guys we lived in a one bedroom one bedroom

847
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 3: apart wasn't even an apartment room, right, and we're starving

848
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 3: musicians and there's some people would would live. Was a

849
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 3: charity of people go and hang out and get picked

850
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 3: up for the old gig here and there. Okay, the

851
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 3: object I think the object really was just just to

852
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 3: get to a place where you could afford to pay

853
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 3: your rent and get a place to live and not

854
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 3: even what I didn't have any any ambition as far

855
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 3: as like private jets.

856
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: Or right here we have now yeah that's yeah what

857
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: what I what is rent a month in Okay, let's

858
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 1: say like you're now eighteen in nineteen sixty eight, what is.

859
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 2: Rent a month in the UK?

860
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 4: Oh? Maybe two three pounds a week maybe something?

861
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you make that on a gig?

862
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 4: Yeah?

863
00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

864
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 1: So when the sort of psychedelic movement eases in, or

865
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 1: at least like by post nineteen sixty six, like when

866
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 1: the Beatles start experimenting, when Hendricks is starting to come

867
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: over to make a mark, is this affecting you at

868
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: all and your musicianship?

869
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 4: Absolutely? I mean yeah, I mean it was wonderful. It

870
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 4: was one of the sixties. Was a wonderful time, you know,

871
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 4: as far as like music fashion.

872
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 2: You know. So, were you a hippie?

873
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 4: No, I was, I was.

874
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 6: I was, well, I you know, I started off when when,

875
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 6: like I said, the boring US MUDs and rockers, right,

876
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 6: I thought, well, you know this still started like an

877
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 6: Easter Sunday down at the beach, and I thought, well

878
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 6: it was gonna win.

879
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, the rockers they count, you know.

880
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 3: So I sort of put on some rocker garb as

881
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 3: close as I could get to rocker GB and I

882
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 3: went down to the beach and there were thousands and

883
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 3: thousands of MUDs. So I went back home and I

884
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 3: put on some Levi's and a white T shirt chase it,

885
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 3: and then went down there and became a modern rioted

886
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 3: with everybody through throwing stones and running up and down

887
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 3: the beach and beating up people when we could find

888
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 3: him with them.

889
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 2: Oh God.

890
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 1: So you know, from what I know it is was

891
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: the American group Bloodstone your first experience in the United

892
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: States or was that was there a group.

893
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 4: Or in the United States?

894
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 3: I mean, I'd done the Freddy King album, I've worked

895
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 3: on the Freddy King.

896
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,919
Speaker 2: Album okay, and there was that like playing with him.

897
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 3: It's incredible he was And the producer was a guy

898
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 3: named Mike Vernon, a hush guy named Mike Vernon, and

899
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 3: Mike had come down to see this I'd started. I

900
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 3: come back to England from from being living in Europe

901
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,760
Speaker 3: and went to music school.

902
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 2: What school U is?

903
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 4: The Nice Conservatory of Music?

904
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: You went to Nice?

905
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, There's a.

906
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 3: Guy named Jack car who was the percussion the percussion teacher.

907
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 3: And I was too old actually to get into the

908
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 3: school as a student. So he got me in as

909
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 3: a teacher because I could play, so.

910
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:09,320
Speaker 4: He had me teach the kids.

911
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 3: And because I was teaching the kids how to play

912
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 3: modern drums, because all they talk was classical music.

913
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,439
Speaker 4: That was about it.

914
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 2: So you could read music.

915
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 3: By the time I left, I could, yeah, minimally. Not

916
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 3: not like the guys. I mean, there was guys that

917
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 3: have been since they were tiny. I had learned to

918
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 3: play their instrument to reading music, you know, and that.

919
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 3: But these guys they couldn't play modern drums. I could,

920
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 3: so I have to teach them. So when I'm teaching them,

921
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 3: I'm writing them out exercises and They're like, oh no, no, no,

922
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 3: mister Feroni, this is this is how you write that out.

923
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 3: And so I was learning. I was as I was teaching.

924
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 3: I did three years of that and it was wonderful,

925
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 3: It was really wonderful. But when I came when I

926
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 3: came back, I started to play with this band, Gonzales.

927
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 3: They were a bunch of studio musicians that would that

928
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 3: would play in the clubs at night. And the way

929
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 3: you got into that band was you wait for whoever

930
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 3: was playing your instrument to go out of town or

931
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 3: have a gig that he couldn't a session that he

932
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 3: couldn't make the gig, and then you would come in

933
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 3: there and then you would play.

934
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 4: You would play that gig until you couldn't make it anymore.

935
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 4: Then you leave.

936
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 3: And then guys like Richard Bailey, so I'd switch up

937
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 3: with like Richard Bailey and that was that was how

938
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 3: that band. And we opened for Average White Band once.

939
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 1: Really yeah, okay, yeah, I was going to say, at

940
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: this point, were you running into Allen or Hamish or

941
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 1: the Glasgow guys.

942
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 3: I was really good friends with Robbie McIntosh when I

943
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 3: was when I went to Italy, when I was like

944
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 3: seventeen years old. I went to Italy and I met

945
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 3: Robbie down there and Alex did it, would you know?

946
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 4: You know Alex is.

947
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 3: He sang with Santana. He sang that song I'm Winning

948
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 3: with Santana, really okay? And Alex and Robbie used to

949
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 3: play a band called the Senate and they were there

950
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 3: in Italy and I was there. I was there working

951
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 3: with an American guy named Ronnie Jones. He's still alive,

952
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 3: God bless him these eighty three years old, eighty three

953
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 3: years old now, and he lives he lives in Milan.

954
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: Did McIntosh have what you would say a pocket then

955
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 1: or was he just.

956
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 2: Well, really he came.

957
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 4: Up with listening to the same stuff as I did.

958
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 3: You know, It's funny, you know, we all came up

959
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 3: listening to the same music, even Tom Penny and went.

960
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 3: After spending some time with the Heartbreak, as we start

961
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 3: talking to oh you know this song or that song,

962
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,479
Speaker 3: and I came to find out that Tom and Mike

963
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 3: were listening to the same stuff as I was listening

964
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 3: to as the English Invasion.

965
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 4: We were all listening to the same.

966
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,439
Speaker 2: Music, the same thing, okay, Yeah, And.

967
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 4: So there was a connection made through the through the music,

968
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 4: you know.

969
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 3: And there was a connection made with with with the

970
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 3: guys from Average white Man because they grew up in

971
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 3: scott and I was down at the way up there

972
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 3: in Scotland with Dundee and Run. I'm down here in

973
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 3: the south of England and we're all listening to motown

974
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 3: and listening to stacks.

975
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 4: Yeah. And so when we sat down and started.

976
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 3: To play that music, we had a way of playing

977
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 3: it that was it would give a note to it,

978
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 3: but we didn't copy.

979
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 4: We didn't.

980
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 2: It wasn't a it wasn't derivative of it.

981
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,240
Speaker 4: No, No, you could tell what it.

982
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 1: Was, you know, because you were sort of the drummer

983
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: whose DNA I studied the most. Always wanted to know

984
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: this the the sort of trick or at least your

985
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: signature feel, which I kind of believe maybe Pretty did

986
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 1: it first, the infamous.

987
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, that's pretty is okay.

988
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, you you heard Pretty do that?

989
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 1: And then Matt just instantly became part of your DNA.

990
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 3: Absolutely yeah, and then and then and then the other

991
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:06,800
Speaker 3: high hat stuff that I got that from Stevie Wonder.

992
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 2: It's so funny, Okay, I'm glad I'm talking to you.

993
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: Well, An, I might be, I was gonna say, quote unquote,

994
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: I might be quote unquote working on a Stevie Wonder

995
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: project as well.

996
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 2: And you know Stevie.

997
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: To me, I don't know any besides James Gatson and

998
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: maybe Bonzo. I don't know another drummer who I define

999
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,479
Speaker 1: more with his symbol work, you know, like all music

1000
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 1: of my mind, just the sloppiness of like love having

1001
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: you around and just.

1002
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 3: I miss that when he started programming drums so much.

1003
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: I know, like I love when he stopped him just

1004
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: all over. I think it's also the fact that he

1005
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: would sort of Motown style overdubbed those Tom Thomson overdubbed

1006
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 1: those high hat feels that it sounds super intense because

1007
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: you know, it just sounds like he's playing it within

1008
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: an ench of his life.

1009
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 4: Oh, it's wonderful. This is that's wonderful.

1010
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: Suff What was the first American city that you arrived

1011
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: in in New York and what was your first impression

1012
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: of America?

1013
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 4: Wow, I remember I remember landing.

1014
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 3: I remember landing at the airport and I had my drums,

1015
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 3: my drum kit on.

1016
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 4: On a on a car right and I don't think.

1017
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 4: I don't think I had to work for it. What

1018
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 4: And and I came through and this.

1019
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:38,919
Speaker 3: This guy, this customs guy, looked in and he says,

1020
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:40,359
Speaker 3: what are you doing? I said, oh, we just hear

1021
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 3: like a vacation. And he said, oh okay. He says,

1022
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 3: your first time here visiting. I don't know is because

1023
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 3: I had an English act because back then he was

1024
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 3: kind of unique for a black guy to speak with

1025
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 3: an English accent, you know. And he said he and

1026
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:54,439
Speaker 3: he said, and he said to me, he said does

1027
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,439
Speaker 3: He said, have you got any drugs? And I said, no,

1028
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 3: I'm good, I'm got any drugs. It's not He said,

1029
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 3: there's plenty through that door. Welcome to New York.

1030
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 2: And that was that.

1031
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 4: And that was that.

1032
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 3: Sixth Avenue we wrote, were writing up six Sevenue and

1033
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 3: I remember, wow, just.

1034
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 2: Looking out and amazing. Yeah. Yeah, when was when is

1035
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 2: the era of back line?

1036
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 3: Like?

1037
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 1: Were you expected to provide your own gear, your own drums?

1038
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 2: Are you setting up your own gear?

1039
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 1: Was there a roadie back in the day or were

1040
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:34,760
Speaker 1: you setting up your own stuff?

1041
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 3: Well, there were a couple of roadies, but they would

1042
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 3: they would help, but you know, we will have to

1043
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 3: really sort of take care of her own stuff.

1044
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:51,800
Speaker 1: Okay, I've heard many accounts of how Robbie passed away

1045
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: and how you got into the group, but I've never

1046
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: heard an official version from official band member. How did

1047
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: Robbie pass away? And how did you get the gig?

1048
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 1: For the average white man?

1049
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 4: Well, you know where were you know, we're friends. I

1050
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 4: was supposed to go to that party.

1051
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 3: I was supposed to medium with that party, but I was,

1052
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 3: I was, I was. I was doing the film, doing

1053
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 3: the film with no I played, well, I might be

1054
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 3: in them, but I did the move music for it.

1055
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: So did it ever come out?

1056
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I I think I have it. I think

1057
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 4: I could have found it.

1058
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Okay, yeah, they're train. Yes. When they

1059
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 2: when they.

1060
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: Were promoting that album on Soul Train, uh, Don Cornelis

1061
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: showed like a minute of the clip where they're riding

1062
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 1: in the train and they're in the bunkers and yeah,

1063
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: doing show tunes and whatnot.

1064
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 3: And so it's funny. I mean I had to go

1065
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 3: there and be on set with them and then and

1066
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 3: then we go we do it called music and yeah.

1067
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: So you're all over that record. Yeah, Wow, that's not you.

1068
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:57,320
Speaker 1: On Natural high money.

1069
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 4: Money is but no, it's not a master, but but

1070
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 4: money is money. Badass. Something actually said it to me.

1071
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 4: That's why I started looking for it. I forgot all

1072
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 4: about it.

1073
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 2: Wow, we did that. All the best things in life

1074
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 2: for you, right, get So.

1075
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 3: So I was doing I was doing that, and and

1076
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 3: they were playing that. They were doing a run at

1077
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,879
Speaker 3: the Troubador. And Robbie caughed me out and he said,

1078
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 3: come on, man, come and go and be a party

1079
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,800
Speaker 3: on It was Sunday night or something.

1080
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 4: So I got to work. If I can, I'll be

1081
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:32,240
Speaker 4: there and and and as fate would have it, I didn't.

1082
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 3: I didn't go. Okay, and and and the next morning

1083
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 3: I woke up and my my my drum tech. Then

1084
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 3: the guy that was working for me, guy named Terry Merchant.

1085
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:42,919
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

1086
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 4: He said, Steve Robbie is dead. Yeah, And I said

1087
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 4: what dead? Drunk?

1088
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 3: Because Robbie, Robbie and I used to go out drinking together.

1089
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 3: Robbie was the hell of a drinker. And he said, no, no, no,

1090
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:57,319
Speaker 3: he's dead.

1091
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 4: You know, he died. He died an overdose. Robbie. It

1092
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,240
Speaker 4: wasn't so much of a drug taker.

1093
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 3: I could say. There wasn't so much of a drug.

1094
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 3: He's more of a drinker, right. But Robbie, this is

1095
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 3: this was the thing was Robbie. Robbie could drink. I'd

1096
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 3: seen Robbie drink Butler vodka and then he just switched

1097
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 3: to Scotch, right, and I get sick. But I never

1098
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 3: saw Robbie throw up. Never saw him he would pass out, right,

1099
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 3: you know. And and from from my understanding, because I

1100
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 3: wasn't there for a lot of what when when the

1101
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 3: whole was just there for the aftermath was that he

1102
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 3: was at this party and everybody did did this. Something

1103
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 3: was saying his some he's some cocaine, right, And so

1104
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 3: Robbie wouldn't do anything small.

1105
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 4: He was not that sort of a person either.

1106
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 2: He went bigger.

1107
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, when he went and he went, he went bigger,

1108
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:55,479
Speaker 3: and and everybody everybody else that did it got sick.

1109
00:55:56,320 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 3: And Robbie went home, went to sleep and stayed in

1110
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 3: his system. It was it was heroine and it was

1111
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 3: cut with strychnine, and it killed him.

1112
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 4: Jesus Christy, is that simple? You know?

1113
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 3: You know, I mean we talk a lot about you know,

1114
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,919
Speaker 3: accidental drug overdoses. You know, sometimes the house I'm saying

1115
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,800
Speaker 3: at the moment, there was three guys that died of

1116
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,720
Speaker 3: fentanyl overdoses, and one of those one of those guys

1117
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:27,879
Speaker 3: was his was his nephew, right, and uh and accidental.

1118
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:31,440
Speaker 3: I don't think anybody goes does any of that stuff

1119
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 3: to die, you know. I mean, if they want to

1120
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 3: do that, they say, I'm I'll write a suicide note,

1121
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 3: right exactly, you did this to me, and then they're

1122
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 3: just do an enormous art and they're dying. And I

1123
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 3: think the recreation, I don't think that this guy even

1124
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:46,879
Speaker 3: had a problem. And I think there was just three

1125
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 3: buddies that decided to go and mess around, get let's

1126
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 3: let's try that stuff and see what it does.

1127
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, yeah, he's a killer.

1128
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:59,359
Speaker 4: It wasn't like that in the sixties. I can tell

1129
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 4: you that right now.

1130
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 3: But I don't think anything any of the drugs nowadays

1131
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 3: like they were in the sixties and seventies, and it

1132
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:09,800
Speaker 3: was it's a it's a different animal. So you know, Robbie,

1133
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 3: it was a tragic, a tragic accident.

1134
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 4: It did. It was a lot of pain, probably still

1135
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 4: being felt felt today.

1136
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 3: You know. I hadn't spoken to his widow in over

1137
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 3: twenty years. And she called me last week from from

1138
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 3: real England. Yeah, he did, and and and and she

1139
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 3: she was telling me that she she just just now

1140
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 3: has come to terms with the fact to be able

1141
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 3: to just say, you know, this is what it was.

1142
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 3: And not much point running around feeling resentment. In years

1143
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 3: of running around feeling resentment, you just make yourself that broke.

1144
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 2: Her heart for all those years, forty five years. It

1145
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 2: just wow.

1146
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 4: She remarried, but yeah, still painful.

1147
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, Robbie was a great guy, a great

1148
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 3: drummer and a great guy.

1149
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: How how long does time go by before you're getting

1150
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 1: the phone call to join the average white band and

1151
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: before they call you, are they trying to at least

1152
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 1: maintain the status of the name of the group and

1153
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 1: find a white guy that's funky?

1154
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 3: No, Well, I tell you what happened was was this

1155
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 3: was that was that when when I found out about

1156
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 3: Robbie being being dead, I went and I called, I

1157
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 3: got hold of Hamish, and I went over to the

1158
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 3: hotel and sat over the hotel with everybody and we

1159
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 3: were all drinking, because that's what we did with the Scots,

1160
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:40,600
Speaker 3: and and and I said to them, listen, you know,

1161
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 3: Robbie wouldn't want you guys to stop.

1162
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 4: Now.

1163
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 3: You know you just gotten to get this airplay with

1164
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 3: pick up the pieces that's happening for you. I don't

1165
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 3: know how this is all gonna en, but you guys,

1166
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 3: you know you shouldn't shouldn't stop.

1167
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 2: There was talk of maybe we should stop the group.

1168
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 3: Well it was it was everybody was sitting around sort

1169
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 3: of like it was all over. You know, it's like

1170
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 3: it's not over, it's you know. And so I said,

1171
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 3: if there's anything I can do, let me know, and

1172
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 3: and and and I was under contract to Bloodstone, right,

1173
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 3: So what what I would do is Stick super and myself.

1174
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 3: What would happen if I couldn't do it, if I

1175
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 3: was working with a Bludstone, Sticks would go and play

1176
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 3: with them?

1177
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, And then.

1178
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 2: Sticks briefly joined the Average White band.

1179
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 3: They played No average White Man, So he go and

1180
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 3: play the gig and then and then if he could,

1181
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 3: if he couldn't do it, I do it. And and

1182
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 3: and you know, I go and play with them.

1183
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 4: They were auditioning people. S I R. There's drummers all

1184
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 4: black white And it didn't really matter.

1185
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:53,440
Speaker 3: They were just looking for a drummer, Yeah, okay with

1186
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 3: sticks and sticks and I would go we'd go to

1187
00:59:56,440 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 3: the auditions and we'd sit there in the SI and

1188
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 3: the drummer would come in. They start playing with them,

1189
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 3: and they say, okay, no, that ain't working, and they

1190
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 3: would get more and more depressed, you know, and so

1191
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 3: either sticks on myself would go up and we jam

1192
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 3: with them and they come back to life again, and

1193
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 3: then they wheel in another drummer, and.

1194
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 4: Then we'd sit there and we'd watch them and they

1195
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 4: would go there.

1196
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 1: Any any drummer of note that tried to audition for

1197
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: the band that didn't.

1198
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 3: Make nobody, nobody that I knew, but there was a

1199
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 3: lot of kids wanted to play. They would, you know.

1200
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 3: It was it was a big audition to go to.

1201
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 3: And so and so I had to play this gig

1202
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 3: with them down at Long Beach at Long Beach Arena,

1203
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 3: at the old Long Beach Arena, and.

1204
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 4: Were down there. We sit there and come out, we

1205
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 4: start to play. I remember this gig there was.

1206
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 3: They were also like kind of state static audience. They

1207
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 3: weren't really doing too much. And then there was this

1208
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 3: one I saw this one guy sort of started to rock,

1209
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 3: you know, so I sort of hold him owned in

1210
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 3: on him, and it kind of spread out from him

1211
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 3: and by the end of the show, everybody was like

1212
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 3: dancing and going crazy and it was It was a

1213
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 3: great show. And I came off the stage and this

1214
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 3: little fella came walking up to me, dapper. You know,

1215
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 3: it's really well dressed, and I said, you know, a

1216
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 3: little bid. He walked up to me and he said,

1217
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 3: you got to be in the band. And I said,

1218
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 3: I'd love to be in the band, but I'm under

1219
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 3: contract to another band.

1220
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 4: I can't. I can't do it, you know.

1221
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 3: And he said, you're out of that band, and you're

1222
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 3: in the band, and then he walked and he walked

1223
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 3: off and Bruce mccaskell was the manager at the time

1224
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 3: of the banner.

1225
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 4: I said, Bruce, who the hell is that? And he said, oh,

1226
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 4: that's how I did.

1227
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 3: And I was out of that contract and I was

1228
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 3: in average white Man just like that.

1229
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 1: All Right, ladies and gentlemen, I know you dread when

1230
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 1: you hear this, but you got to come back next

1231
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 1: week for the next QLs episode of our special one

1232
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 1: on one Question of Preme with my idol Steve Faron.

1233
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 1: He's going to talk about his time with the average

1234
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: white bend Duran Duran, Tom Petty, playing with Prince all

1235
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 1: this other stuff. Man, I hope you come back and

1236
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 1: enjoy this episode. And this is one of the probably

1237
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 1: the most special episodes I've ever done, where I get

1238
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: to talk to the person that showed me the joys

1239
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 1: of music and drumming, especially all right, see y'all then

1240
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 1: thank you. Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.