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Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone,

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Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about

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Speaker 1: the choices we make and where they lead us. On

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Speaker 1: this podcast, I want to talk to people that exemplify

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Speaker 1: strength and bravery. Being courageous and standing up for yourself

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Speaker 1: can be one of the hardest things you can do.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is incredibly strong and brave. You know

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Speaker 1: her from being Hugh Hefner's number one girlfriend, which was

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Speaker 1: captured on the wildly successful reality show The Girl's Next Door,

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Speaker 1: and her books Down the Rabbit Hole and The Vegas Diaries.

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Speaker 1: She co hosts the podcast Girls Next Level, and you

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Speaker 1: can catch the new season of her show The Playboy

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Speaker 1: Murders on ID and streaming on Max. May fifth, Please

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Speaker 1: welcome Holly Madison to the podcast. Hello beautiful, so nice

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Speaker 1: to meet you you too.

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Speaker 2: I'm such a huge fan. I love nine oh two

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Speaker 2: one oh so much.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: I'm really happy to talk to you today because even

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Speaker 1: though our journeys have been very different, we are both

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Speaker 1: independent women and there are most likely a lot of

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Speaker 1: similarities between us. Then, yeah, a lot of people welcomed

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Speaker 1: you into their homes when you are on the Girls

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Speaker 1: next Door reality show, And I cannot even believe that

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Speaker 1: it has been twenty years since that show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so crazy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, does that seem like a totally different lifetime for you?

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent it does. It's so weird, Like, I

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Speaker 2: can't believe it's been twenty years since it debuted now,

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Speaker 2: And you know, Bridget and I have a podcast where

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Speaker 2: we rewatch and we talk about the show a little bit,

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Speaker 2: and it's just crazy just how much just culture has

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Speaker 2: changed too, and little things like I'm sure when you

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Speaker 2: watch your show too, you notice things that you're like,

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Speaker 2: we even did that back then, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's certain things that went down that you could

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Speaker 1: never do now on a TV show totally. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you see that with your show.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent. We'll be watching scenes and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I don't think you could do a scene like this, because,

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Speaker 2: especially for reality TV in the two thousands, it was

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Speaker 2: really just kind of showing a person's lifestyle. You didn't

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Speaker 2: have to have that much plot or drama. So sometimes

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Speaker 2: I'll be watching it and I'm like, this is cute

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Speaker 2: and all, but I don't think you could do this now,

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Speaker 2: because like, nothing's really happening in the scene.

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Speaker 1: Right, where's the plot?

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Speaker 2: So what's coxactly?

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Speaker 1: Before we get into life at the mansion, I want

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Speaker 1: to find out about your upbringing. What did you want

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Speaker 1: to be when you were growing up.

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Speaker 2: I think the first thing I wanted to be when

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Speaker 2: I was super super little and didn't really know what

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Speaker 2: that meant was I wanted to be Alice in Wonderland.

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Speaker 2: I thought you could pick a character and be that.

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Speaker 2: But once I knew what a job was, I kind

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Speaker 2: of was all over the place, Like I wanted to

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Speaker 2: be a writer. I wanted to be in the entertainment industry.

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Speaker 2: I didn't really know. I just kind of wanted to

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Speaker 2: get out there and do something. And as I got older,

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Speaker 2: I was in college, I transferred down to Loyal La

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Speaker 2: Mary Mount in LA, and I knew I wanted to

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Speaker 2: be in the entertainment industry in some capacity, but I

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Speaker 2: didn't really know what.

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Speaker 1: But you had entertainment industry on your mind, Like did

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Speaker 1: you want to be famous?

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Speaker 2: I did for some reason, and I think it's because

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Speaker 2: I always had a hard time like relating to people

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Speaker 2: and like bonding to other people, and I had this weird,

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Speaker 2: immature idea that if you were famous and people felt

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Speaker 2: connected to you in that parasocial way, that was like

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Speaker 2: a shortcut to connecting with people. And you know, spoiler alert,

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Speaker 2: it's not. But I think that was kind of what

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Speaker 2: I was thinking deep down. And I was a double

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Speaker 2: major in theater in psychology, and I'd always you know,

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Speaker 2: loved like the women of Playboy, like Pamela Anderson and

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Speaker 2: Anna Nicole, and I always kind of knew my journey

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Speaker 2: was probably going to start there and that was maybe

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Speaker 2: going to be my foot in the door, and I

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Speaker 2: didn't know it would turn into such like a bigger

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Speaker 2: thing than I thought it was going to be.

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Speaker 1: You know, it seems so familiar that what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: because it was the same way for me with Beverly

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Speaker 1: Hills Nina Twoina. I had no idea that that would

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Speaker 1: lead me to the life that I've gotten to live.

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Speaker 1: And I wondered at the same time, like, do you

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Speaker 1: get tired of talking about the past or you know

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Speaker 1: kind of where you started? Because for me, I have

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Speaker 1: I can see how people would say, oh, I want

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Speaker 1: to be known for something else, or I wish I

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Speaker 1: could shake that, but I can't and that's the fact,

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Speaker 1: And so I have embraced it to the point where

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Speaker 1: I love talking about it because it got me everything

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Speaker 1: that I have Now, I wouldn't be you who I

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Speaker 1: am totally.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I went through a phase where I wanted nothing

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Speaker 2: to do with it. This was maybe like I left

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Speaker 2: the Mansion and Girls next Door. I'd done my own

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Speaker 2: spin off show for a couple of years, and right

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Speaker 2: after that, I was like, I just want to go

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Speaker 2: a completely different direction. I don't want to be associated

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Speaker 2: with Playboy or have anybody remember that at all. But

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Speaker 2: that's like such a losing game, like nobody's ever going

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Speaker 2: to So I learned pretty quickly that that's like like

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Speaker 2: the fight you can't win. And also because the reality

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Speaker 2: show is presenting me as myself and people thought they

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Speaker 2: were seeing my real life, but there was a lot

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Speaker 2: about it that was manipulated. I never kind of run

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Speaker 2: out of moments where I want to set the record straight.

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Speaker 2: So I really don't be sick of talking about it

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Speaker 2: because of that. I'm curious, because I'm such a huge

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Speaker 2: nine h two one zero fan. When you first got

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Speaker 2: that role, did you know it was going to be

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Speaker 2: a show that lasted or did you think, oh, this

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Speaker 2: is just going to be my first thing on the

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Speaker 2: way to something else.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even think it through at all. I was

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Speaker 1: just so excited to get the opportunity, and you know,

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Speaker 1: see what happened. And I don't think any of us

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Speaker 1: knew or expected or thought that it would turn into

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Speaker 1: what it turned into, something that we're all still interested

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Speaker 1: in all these years later. It's crazy, it's so cool,

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Speaker 1: but it's really cool. I know. Yeah, so when for

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Speaker 1: a lot of us, the first example we have of

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Speaker 1: love is our parents. What kind of relationship did you

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Speaker 1: see your parents having?

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Speaker 2: My parents are still together, they're still married, so they

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Speaker 2: had a great relationship. But one thing I noticed, it's interesting.

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Speaker 2: I never saw them fight once growing up, and I've

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Speaker 2: never talked to them about this, but I have to

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Speaker 2: assume they made a decision like we're not going to

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Speaker 2: fight in front of the kids. They're not going to

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Speaker 2: see any of that, which is incredibly admirable. But also

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Speaker 2: I grew up with no conflict resolution skills whatever, because

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Speaker 2: I never saw it play out. So I'm kind of

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Speaker 2: the one where for the longest time in relationships, if

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Speaker 2: even like a little thing flared up. I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 2: well we're breaking up. Well it's done, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's over. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, that's really really interesting. And how did you learn

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Speaker 1: how to do conflict? You know, didn't see it.

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Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of my interpersonal skills I've

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Speaker 2: only really recently developed, like within the past five years.

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Speaker 2: Like I was late diagnosed on the spectrum. So now

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Speaker 2: I understand a lot more how I work and how

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Speaker 2: I've perceived things differently over the years than maybe anybody

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Speaker 2: else would. So I feel like really only learning to

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Speaker 2: communicate effectively. That's been a very recent journey for me.

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Speaker 2: Like I was operating as an adult for decades without

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Speaker 2: knowing how to do it, and you know, I would

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Speaker 2: have falling outs with friends every once in a while

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Speaker 2: that would turn to like never speaking again, or you know,

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Speaker 2: relationships would end at the first fight because I just

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Speaker 2: didn't know how to do conflict at all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's scary. Yeah, the communication is key. And I

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Speaker 1: too felt like I was I lost about ten years

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Speaker 1: of very important developmental, you know, normal human time by

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Speaker 1: being on a show that was like, you know, so popular,

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Speaker 1: and being working so hard for ten years on that show.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I missed a lot of social things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so interesting to hear because I feel the

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Speaker 2: exact same way. Of course, my situation was a little

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Speaker 2: bit different, so I was kind of living in this bubble.

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Speaker 2: But I'm sure you were so busy you're living in

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Speaker 2: a different bubble. Yeah, But I feel like my twenties,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't dating like a normal person. I wasn't, you know,

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Speaker 2: I had this, you know, career being on a reality show,

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Speaker 2: but I wasn't going out and making a career the

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Speaker 2: way a normal twenty something would. So for the longest time,

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Speaker 2: you know, after I left the Mansion, when I was

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Speaker 2: in my thirties, a lot of my friends would be

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Speaker 2: about ten years younger than me, because that's what I

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Speaker 2: could relate to, had this solid chunk of like arrested development.

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Speaker 1: Yes, arrested development. Yep, absolutely, I can so relate. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you moved to Los Angeles, you're in college, and

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Speaker 1: you're pursuing a career in entertainment. How does getting invited

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Speaker 1: to the Mansion come about?

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Speaker 2: That happened because I was working for Hawaiian Tropic and

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Speaker 2: at one of the events, Hugh Hefner's doctor came and

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Speaker 2: he was like, Oh, I want to invite all these

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Speaker 2: girls to the next Playboy Mansion party. And I was

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Speaker 2: so excited because back then, this was the year two

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Speaker 2: thousand and back then those were like the cool parties

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Speaker 2: to go to in town that were like really exclusive,

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Speaker 2: and I'd heard girls I knew talk about going, but

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Speaker 2: I didn't know very many who were invited. So I

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Speaker 2: was so excited to go. And like I said, I

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Speaker 2: was a fan of like some of the women who'd

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Speaker 2: come from Playboy, So I was so excited to go

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Speaker 2: to my first party. I didn't even stay that late

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Speaker 2: that night, it was weird. I just stayed for a

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Speaker 2: couple hours kind of toward the place, and like went

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Speaker 2: home and thought it was like the best night ever.

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Speaker 2: And then I got invited to their pool parties, which

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Speaker 2: were much smaller affairs, and you know, hef was at

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Speaker 2: all of those. So I got to know him and

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Speaker 2: his girlfriends a little bit, not very well, not as

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Speaker 2: well as I should have got to know him before

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Speaker 2: making some decisions I was about to make. But you know,

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Speaker 2: I thought I had a good rapport with them, so

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Speaker 2: and then I moved in after a year later, after

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Speaker 2: you know, being invited to my first party, and I'd

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Speaker 2: been in college and I was kind of trying to

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Speaker 2: do too much. I was a double major. I was

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Speaker 2: on scholarship, so I had to keep my grades up

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Speaker 2: to a certain amount to keep that, and I had

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Speaker 2: to work full time just to pay for like my

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Speaker 2: other bills and things like that, or as close to

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Speaker 2: full time as I could fit in. And then I

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Speaker 2: was also trying to audition and stuff, and it was

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Speaker 2: just trying to do too many things, so I ended

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Speaker 2: up failing at all of them. And I got to

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Speaker 2: a point where I was living with two other people

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Speaker 2: and they're like, at the last minute, I thought we

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Speaker 2: were going to resign our lease and they were like,

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Speaker 2: we're not, you know, going to resign this. We're like

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Speaker 2: going back home. So I was like, holy shit, I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to have anywhere to live. And I'd been

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Speaker 2: invited out with Helfen the girls before, and I'd always

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Speaker 2: said no just because I saw their whole like multiple

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Speaker 2: girlfriend relationship and thought that looked a little too much

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Speaker 2: for me. But because I had nowhere to live, I

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Speaker 2: was like, you know what, maybe I will go out

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Speaker 2: with them. Because I was at the pool party, like

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Speaker 2: right when this dilemma was going down, and one of

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Speaker 2: the butler's was like, you know, one of the girls

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Speaker 2: just got kicked out. There's like an open room here,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, you know what, maybe I will give

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Speaker 2: this a try. And it turned into you know, the

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Speaker 2: next seven crazy years of my life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, was there anybody in your life that was telling

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Speaker 1: you not to move in?

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Speaker 2: There probably would have been if I had told people,

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Speaker 2: But I didn't tell.

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Speaker 1: Anyone, and you didn't want to hear their opinion.

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Speaker 2: No, you know, I knew this was a very snap decision.

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Speaker 2: I knew it would be a controversial decision. I just thought,

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Speaker 2: you know what, I'm going to look back on this,

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Speaker 2: and this is going to be that crazy thing I

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Speaker 2: did in college. I didn't know it was going to

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Speaker 2: turn into a seven year long thing. And even my

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Speaker 2: family they didn't really know what was going on. For

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Speaker 2: years and years. I always kept every Everything I told

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Speaker 2: them was very pg because I was just in the

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Speaker 2: thick of it and in over my head and trying

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Speaker 2: to figure it out for myself. And I knew what

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Speaker 2: everybody would say, but I also knew they probably wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have any advice that would work for me. In the moment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I found that I did that too. I didn't

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Speaker 1: tell my family all of the details.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes when you're that age, you just kind of

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Speaker 2: want to figure it out for yourself. It's weird.

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Speaker 1: Do you think they would have advised you not to.

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Speaker 2: Move in or I mean, Julie would have said something.

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Speaker 2: But also I feel like I was always kind of

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Speaker 2: that kid that kind of did what I want. And

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Speaker 2: I'm out of the house at that point, and what

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Speaker 2: are they going to do? They don't live anywhere nearby, so.

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Speaker 1: You just were like, who, I'm going to do what

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Speaker 1: I want. I like that. Yeah, okay, So having I

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Speaker 1: came up in the nineties, and I feel like women

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Speaker 1: were often pitted against one another.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I remember all the you know, whether it

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Speaker 2: was real or not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the media lists loved to stoke that fire. And

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Speaker 1: I was wondering if the atmosphere that you were in

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Speaker 1: at the mansion with that group of women, was it

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Speaker 1: the same for you And did the men there help

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Speaker 1: to sort of foster or encourage that competitive nature amongst

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Speaker 1: the women.

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Speaker 2: It were so bad and it was so bad, like

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Speaker 2: when I first moved in, there were six other women

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Speaker 2: living there and you know, they would come and go,

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Speaker 2: So the roster changed a couple times within the first

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Speaker 2: four years I lived there, and nobody got along. It

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Speaker 2: was awful, and I just thought, you know, I had

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Speaker 2: like one other friend there who would be Bridget, who

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Speaker 2: would end up on Girls next door with me. But

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Speaker 2: other than that, I didn't get along with anybody. Everybody

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Speaker 2: was trying to get everybody kicked out, everybody's starting rumors

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Speaker 2: about each other, and I was like, this is just horrible.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't really until after when I would look

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Speaker 2: back on how things went at the mansion, or even

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Speaker 2: right about the time I left, because this was kind

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Speaker 2: of one of the things that made me want to leave.

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize that hef was kind of like low

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Speaker 2: key encouraging all.

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Speaker 1: That, like pulling the string.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think that was for his ego. He

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Speaker 2: felt good if he felt like the girls were fighting

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Speaker 2: over him. And also, we couldn't get together and ever

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Speaker 2: be like, you know what, we don't feel like going

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Speaker 2: out tonight or you know what, we want to do

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Speaker 2: this like, we couldn't ever get together and you know,

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Speaker 2: unionize so to speak, if we were all friends. So

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Speaker 2: it worked to his advantage to keep everybody fighting, and

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Speaker 2: it was just so miserable and stressful, and when I

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Speaker 2: kind of realized that's what's going on, it was kind

300
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Speaker 2: of the lost straw for me, and you know the

301
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Speaker 2: reason I left among men any reasons. Yeah, so that

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Speaker 2: was definitely going on. And then when the cast of

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Speaker 2: characters went down to three people, it was just me,

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Speaker 2: Bridget and Kendra who ended up on the show. You know,

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Speaker 2: of course, there's a lot of that in reality TV too.

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Speaker 2: They always want to make things look more hostile than

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Speaker 2: they were. The fact of the matter is that Bridget

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Speaker 2: and I had lived through so much drama up to

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Speaker 2: that point that we always tried really really hard for

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Speaker 2: everybody to get along, or if something happened we didn't like,

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Speaker 2: we'd just kind of be quiet about it and put

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Speaker 2: up with it. But the show doesn't want that, so

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Speaker 2: they'll take a picture of like me sitting there with

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Speaker 2: a resting bitch face and make it look like I'm

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Speaker 2: giving somebody a dirty look. And then that would continue

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Speaker 2: on even after Girls next Door. Because when Kendra and

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Speaker 2: I had our spinoff shows on e they were produced

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Speaker 2: by the same executive producer who did Girls next Door.

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Speaker 2: Who was very close with hef and even after you know,

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Speaker 2: he would like pick Kendra and I against each other.

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Speaker 2: And it's to the point where we still don't speak today.

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Speaker 2: So it's very, very toxic.

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Speaker 1: That is so sad to me. Mm hmmm, because you know,

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Speaker 1: I know you you probably feel this way too as

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Speaker 1: you get older. As I've gotten older, I realized, like

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Speaker 1: what a waste of my time and energy that was,

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Speaker 1: and like, right, how much better it feels to lift

328
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Speaker 1: other women up around me. Yeah, that just changes how

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Speaker 1: I feel about myself, how I walk around in the.

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Speaker 2: World one hundred percent. It's so stressful being in that

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Speaker 2: conflict all the time. It's like permanent fight or flight,

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Speaker 2: especially when you live with the people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you were dubbed as his number one. Yes, uh,

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Speaker 1: and there was quite an age difference, Like yeah, we

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Speaker 1: don't talk about that much, but Hi, he was in

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Speaker 1: his seventies and you were just twenty one. Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I was twenty two when I'm twenty two twenty

338
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Speaker 2: one when I first met him.

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Speaker 1: In the early years of getting to know him, I'm

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Speaker 1: just I'm curious, did you think I'm falling in love

341
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:55,320
Speaker 1: or was it more like how someone might sort of

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Speaker 1: describe idolizing a cult leader or something.

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Speaker 2: It was a little bit of both. I mean, I

344
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Speaker 2: think in the beginning I very much looked up to him.

345
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Speaker 2: I admired everything he accomplished. He seemed like such a

346
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,640
Speaker 2: great guy. You know, everybody when they first meet him

347
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,560
Speaker 2: kind of has that same impression. And you know, you're

348
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,040
Speaker 2: going up to these pool parties and he's surrounded by

349
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,600
Speaker 2: all his closest friends who have nothing but glowing things

350
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,720
Speaker 2: to say about him, and you just think, Wow, this

351
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,920
Speaker 2: is like an amazing human being. And then you know,

352
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Speaker 2: when I moved in, I had seen from a distance

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Speaker 2: that girls kind of came and went, and he wasn't

354
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Speaker 2: really settling down with anybody, so I thought I would

355
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,560
Speaker 2: just be there for a short period of time. But

356
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,480
Speaker 2: we really bonded, and he was very good at like

357
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,520
Speaker 2: love bombing and manipulating and things, So it did start

358
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,880
Speaker 2: to feel like more of a relationship, and I did

359
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,720
Speaker 2: get very emotionally involved, so I would say like later

360
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,200
Speaker 2: it felt like falling in love, but it wasn't what

361
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,080
Speaker 2: I had on my mind when I like first came

362
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Speaker 2: to a party or anything.

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Speaker 1: Like that you said before, or that the whole concept

364
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,639
Speaker 1: of going there and having there be other women and

365
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Speaker 1: the whole group didn't really feel right to you. Did

366
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Speaker 1: you battle with that same feeling a lot during your

367
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:12,920
Speaker 1: time there?

368
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,520
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I made it very clear that I didn't

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Speaker 2: like the multiple girlfriend thing. I didn't want it, and

370
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:19,560
Speaker 2: he was always like, well, it's not always going to

371
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Speaker 2: be this way, just like a couple more years and

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Speaker 2: then like a year goes by, and then another year

373
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Speaker 2: goes by, and like things never change. But he would

374
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,560
Speaker 2: always talk about like us settling down and things like that,

375
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Speaker 2: and then it just wasn't happening, and then it got

376
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Speaker 2: to a point where I didn't even want it to happen.

377
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Speaker 2: So I was always very clear that I didn't like

378
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Speaker 2: the multiple relationship thing.

379
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Speaker 1: But it fell on deaf ears.

380
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I mean he definitely heard me. I

381
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:48,040
Speaker 2: just don't think he gave a shit.

382
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Speaker 1: That's even worse. I mean for me, this is where

383
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:54,360
Speaker 1: it gets good.

384
00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:54,600
Speaker 2: Though.

385
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Speaker 1: You had one of the biggest I choose me moments

386
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,840
Speaker 1: you left the mansion and in two thousand and eight,

387
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Speaker 1: do you remember when you made that final decision to leave?

388
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Speaker 2: I do, And it was kind of something that happened

389
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,879
Speaker 2: gradually we were doing the show, which was a huge success,

390
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,000
Speaker 2: and that, you know, I feel like helped my self

391
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,520
Speaker 2: esteem a little bit because the show wanted to follow

392
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,040
Speaker 2: us doing different things, so it gave us an excuse

393
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,520
Speaker 2: because like we had a curfew. We weren't allowed to travel,

394
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,800
Speaker 2: we weren't allowed to do anything once we entered into

395
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,720
Speaker 2: that relationship. But with the show, we could actually go

396
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,240
Speaker 2: film somewhere and because the cameras were with us, he'd

397
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,480
Speaker 2: let us all stay a night somewhere or something like that.

398
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,800
Speaker 2: And then I started working at the Playboy Studio. I

399
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,919
Speaker 2: was producing and directing all the Playmate of the Month features,

400
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 2: and I loved that job. It was an amazing job,

401
00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,040
Speaker 2: like working with everybody there, working with the different women,

402
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,119
Speaker 2: and I felt like that did so much for my

403
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,400
Speaker 2: self esteem. And I started to feel because I almost

404
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,240
Speaker 2: once I moved to the mansion, I felt kind of

405
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,840
Speaker 2: like crippled before for lack of a better world. I

406
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,119
Speaker 2: felt like, if I leave here, I'm not going to

407
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,439
Speaker 2: be able to survive in the real world, which sounds

408
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,280
Speaker 2: so strange, but it was just the mindset I was

409
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,199
Speaker 2: locked in. But once I was like doing a career

410
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,280
Speaker 2: and loving it, and you know and I were still

411
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,200
Speaker 2: like talking about the future, and we actually like were

412
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,000
Speaker 2: trying to have a baby. We were like doing in

413
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,359
Speaker 2: vitro and everything, but it wasn't working. And when I

414
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 2: realized it wasn't working, I was like, well, I don't

415
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,119
Speaker 2: know if I can stay here, you know, because I

416
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:19,879
Speaker 2: always knew I wanted to be a mom, that was

417
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,439
Speaker 2: just something that was, you know, a non negotiable for me.

418
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 2: So that was kind of the first realization I had

419
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 2: that I really wanted to leave. And then things just

420
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,320
Speaker 2: started to get more and more tense between HEF and I.

421
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,479
Speaker 2: I don't know what was going on with him at

422
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,640
Speaker 2: that time. I almost look back at it now, and

423
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,320
Speaker 2: you know, I've described on my podcast and things like that,

424
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 2: and a lot of people will chime in, like in

425
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,639
Speaker 2: the comments on our YouTube or on our Patreon or

426
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,440
Speaker 2: wherever we communicate with people and say that the way

427
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,320
Speaker 2: he was behaving almost sounds like the first signs of dementia,

428
00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,879
Speaker 2: because I guess sometimes people can get really mean, and

429
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,120
Speaker 2: not that he'd never been mean before. We'd certainly had

430
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 2: a lot of issues up to that point, but in

431
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 2: the very end, he started getting really mean, kind of

432
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,600
Speaker 2: out of nowhere over so many things, and I didn't

433
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 2: know what that was at the time, and I was

434
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 2: just like, I can't do this, I can't handle it,

435
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,480
Speaker 2: and I was I had already broke it off with

436
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 2: him and leaving in things, but I was still staying

437
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,520
Speaker 2: in a different room with the mansion to kind of

438
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,120
Speaker 2: finish filming the season five of the show, and we

439
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,440
Speaker 2: were called back to do commentary for the last DVD

440
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 2: and Kendra was telling the story in front of the

441
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,439
Speaker 2: producer about how, you know, we had been watching a

442
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 2: movie in a room and you know, have followed her

443
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 2: down to her room and said, well, why didn't you

444
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,199
Speaker 2: sit next to me here? And she goes, oh, I

445
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:36,880
Speaker 2: didn't want to, like move Holly out of the way.

446
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 2: And he started like stopping his feet and saying he

447
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,400
Speaker 2: liked the drama and stuff. And that's kind of when

448
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 2: everything came together in my head and I realized he's

449
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 2: been orchestrating this drama and encouraging it the whole time,

450
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,359
Speaker 2: which was incredibly hurtful to me because he knew how

451
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,119
Speaker 2: much I hated all the fighting with the other girls

452
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,439
Speaker 2: and how long it had been going on. So that

453
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 2: was definitely like the last straw and kind of like

454
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,439
Speaker 2: made me lose any feelings spar him and just like

455
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,159
Speaker 2: cemented my decision to move on.

456
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, once you see somebody for who they truly.

457
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 2: Are, Yeah, you can't unless see it.

458
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: And Yeah, you've opened up in the past about the

459
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:19,959
Speaker 1: fact that you and he attempted IVF were together. Do

460
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,160
Speaker 1: you think, looking back now as a mom that you are,

461
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 1: do you think that not working out was a blessing?

462
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 2: One hundred percent? I can't even imagine it. It seems

463
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 2: so strange. The want to have kids was old, but

464
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 2: it was just the mindset I was in. It's like,

465
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 2: once I entered into that place, something happened to me

466
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 2: where I felt like, I need to make this work

467
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 2: or nothing else, and there's nothing else out there for me.

468
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 2: And you know, I could point to a number of

469
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 2: reasons why I think that is, but you know, long

470
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 2: story short, that was the mindset I was in. And

471
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,199
Speaker 2: I'm just so glad everything worked out the way it

472
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,120
Speaker 2: had because I had the best years of my life

473
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 2: after I left the mansion and the best you know,

474
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 2: career moments and the family moments and everything. So it's

475
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 2: just a really good example of how sometimes what you

476
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 2: think you want the universe has better.

477
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 1: Plans for you. Yes, I love when that happens. You

478
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 1: feel so divinely like supported somehow. Yeah, but you don't

479
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 1: feel that in the moment for sure.

480
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 2: No, not at all.

481
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 1: I mean, just think about how hard it probably would

482
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 1: have been for you to leave him if you had

483
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 1: a child with him.

484
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it would have been impossible.

485
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,439
Speaker 1: It would have been a whole different life for you.

486
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:29,399
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.

487
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I'm so happy that didn't wasn't successful.

488
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Okay, So, yeah, we've both been through

489
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,400
Speaker 1: breakups and divorces, and I know you're newly single, and

490
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 1: I know for me, each of those you know, big

491
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: life changing sort of obstacles turned out to be learning

492
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: opportunities for me. And even if I, you know, didn't

493
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: see them that way in the moment, I started to

494
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 1: recogniz my part in the reoccurring problems, my patterns that

495
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: are serving me. Have you had some of those sort

496
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: of revelations along your way.

497
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 2: To Yeah, absolutely, And I think a lot of it

498
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 2: has a lot of like subconscious emotional unavailability, like picking

499
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 2: people that I know aren't going to be that available

500
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 2: because secretly I don't want to be that available, even

501
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,360
Speaker 2: though I really think I do. It's a really layered thing.

502
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, why do you think in secretly or like deep

503
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 1: inside you you don't want to be available?

504
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 2: I have no idea. It's so weird to think because

505
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 2: I don't think that's what I want, you know, But

506
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 2: my choices keep telling me that I'm picking people. Either

507
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 2: that or I just really like a challenge for no

508
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 2: good reason. I don't know.

509
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: When's your birthday?

510
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 2: December twenty third. I'm a Capricorn.

511
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: Capricorn those are very strong ladies. Maybe it is the

512
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: challenge thing.

513
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 2: So Capricorns always have to do things the hard way.

514
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 2: That's one thing I've noticed. We're very hard workers, but

515
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 2: we never take the easy route. It always has to

516
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 2: be the hardest one we pick for whatever reason.

517
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I think, can I ask how old

518
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: you are?

519
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 2: Forty six?

520
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: Forty six? Okay, so you're going to be fifty soon,

521
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 1: you're going to be joining the club. I felt like

522
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 1: for me, after fifty, I realized so much about like

523
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 1: what a big, huge part my childhood and my past

524
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 1: played into why I was behaving the way I was

525
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: for so many years, and why I just kept repeating

526
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: it even though it didn't work, and yeah, like I

527
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 1: didn't understand why I kept going back to that empty.

528
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's so weird.

529
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: It's so weird, and you don't have sort of the

530
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: tools or the understanding on how what your life could

531
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 1: be like if you were to do things differently.

532
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. But also, like the catch twenty two

533
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 2: of it all is I really think all those bad

534
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 2: relationships we went through, like we had to learn something

535
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 2: from that too. It was never really a waste of time.

536
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: What do you think that the biggest thing you learned

537
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 1: about your last relationship was for yourself.

538
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 2: My last relationship, it was interesting because I was dating

539
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 2: this guy for six years, the last six years, and

540
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 2: it was during the time that I got diagnosed like

541
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: late diagnosed autistic, and he was somebody like we had

542
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 2: a lot of issues in our relationship, but one thing

543
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 2: I really liked about him was he very much accepted

544
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: me for how I was as far as like being

545
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 2: an introvert or not being that good with people socially.

546
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: A lot of people when they meet me, they I

547
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 2: seem very disengaged and they think I'm stuck up or

548
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: they think I'm being rude, and I'd had issues in

549
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 2: relationships with that before, where guys you know, really didn't

550
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 2: like that because they didn't think I was like a

551
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: business asset because I would go to a dinner with

552
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: them and They're trying to talk to somebody and I'm

553
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 2: not engaging the wife as much as I should be

554
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: or something, you know what I mean. So it turned

555
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 2: into like a big problem. They didn't like that. So

556
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 2: I was dating this guy who totally accepted me for

557
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: how I was, and I think that gave me the

558
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 2: space to kind of look into why I am the

559
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 2: way I am. And he was kind of similar in

560
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 2: a lot of ways. So it's weird that you would

561
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 2: spend six years with somebody and that would be the reason.

562
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 2: But it's kind of like my takeaway from that. Of

563
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 2: course I didn't know it at the time, but I'm like,

564
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,959
Speaker 2: he was kind of the perfect person for what I

565
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 2: was going through and what I was learning about myself.

566
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 2: And also he was so introverted and so like, never

567
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: wanted to go out and do anything, but I so

568
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: fully got to indulge that side of my personality that

569
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 2: I don't want to indulge it as much anymore. So

570
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 2: now I feel now that I've learned what I've learned

571
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 2: about myself, I feel like I'm so much better equipped

572
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 2: to go out and actually work on my social skills

573
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 2: and network and do the things I need to do. Right.

574
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you have to put yourself out there as

575
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: a single woman, a single mom. You've got to, you know,

576
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: keep pushing.

577
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 2: Forward one hundred percent. And for business, especially in the

578
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 2: entertainment industry, Like, I'm shocked I'm even working because I

579
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: never I never networked at all for like the longest time.

580
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 2: Like I went through this phase where I was like,

581
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: I'm not leaving the house, you know, back like twelve

582
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 2: years ago when I had kids. So I'm shocked I'm

583
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 2: even doing things now. But you know now, I don't

584
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 2: feel that way, and it's not the way I want

585
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 2: to operate.

586
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: So remember in the beginning of the conversation, I told

587
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 1: you there's probably a lot of similarities in us. I'm

588
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: seeing them left and right.

589
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: Oh that's so close.

590
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: I'm an introvert as well, and I never networked, and

591
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: I've often thought like, oh my gosh. You know, they

592
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: say you have to be relevant or whatever to keep working.

593
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: I'm not relevant. But there's something that has kept me

594
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 1: pushing forward so that I can pay my bills, so

595
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: that I can take care of family. That thing. It's

596
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 1: like that's survival instinct, you know, and you know better

597
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 1: than anybody that you're on.

598
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 2: Your own kid totally.

599
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: I'm quoting a Taylor Swift song there, So I love it. Yeah,

600
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: that's so it's really very interesting, and I would imagine,

601
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: like what a what an impact in really great ways

602
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 1: but also in really like not so great ways that

603
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 1: time there, in that life, that life where you were

604
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: living that you stumbled into. What the effects of that

605
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: were for you for long term and just your sense

606
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: of self, your sense of you know, being able to

607
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 1: feel independent and grounded. It had to have had such

608
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: a profound effect on you.

609
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's weird, and it's really layered. Like I can't

610
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 2: even point to one thing and be like, oh, I

611
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: had arrested development because I lived in this bubble. It's

612
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 2: like it's that, but it's so many other things too. Also,

613
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 2: when I exited the relationship, I just kind of wanted

614
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 2: to look back on it positively even though there was

615
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: a lot of negative and just like put a bow

616
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: on it and always talk about it like it was great.

617
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 2: But that didn't work for me because it wasn't truthful

618
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: and it wasn't just me looking at my experience and

619
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 2: what did I experience and how was it. It's also

620
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: dealing with like the world's opinion of what my experience

621
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 2: was and what it should have been. There was a

622
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: lot of that to work through too, so interesting.

623
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: Like do you feel like what the world thought and

624
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: wanted got interrupted? It sort of interrupted what you thought

625
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: and what you wanted.

626
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: Well on the first difficulty I had with it, I

627
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: felt was after I left the Mansion. You know, I

628
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 2: was on my own doing my own thing, and every

629
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 2: day somebody would come up to me in real life,

630
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: whether I was doing a meet and greet after my

631
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: show or I was just at the local Starbucks or something,

632
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: and they'd be somebody who was probably a fan of

633
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 2: the show, and they'd be excited to ask, Oh, how's

634
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 2: hell or do you miss the mansion? Or oh, I mean,

635
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: how is everybody? And you know, I hadn't had a

636
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 2: great time there, hence me deciding to leave, but I

637
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: didn't want to disappoint anybody, so as I was like, oh,

638
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: everybody's great, even though I'm thinking of my head, like

639
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 2: I haven't spoken to that man in years, and every

640
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 2: chance he gets he makes a low key snarky comment

641
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 2: about me and the media. But I felt this weird

642
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 2: responsibility to like still be the cheerleader and still make

643
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: everything sound like it was great, and it was really

644
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 2: creating like a pit in my stomach because you know,

645
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 2: sometimes people will look at me and be like, oh, well,

646
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 2: you know you're doing a podcast about the show or

647
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 2: you wrote a book about this, like why are you

648
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 2: still talking about it? And to them that might seem,

649
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: you know, out of pocket that I'm still talking about it,

650
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 2: but to me, like they have to understand every single

651
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 2: day of my life, I see somebody in the wild

652
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: who like wants answers or think they know what was

653
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 2: going on and stuff, and I think, yeah, I think

654
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 2: a lot of people really like bought in to have

655
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 2: some of my relationship and were invested in it and

656
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 2: wanted us to settle down, and we're disappointed when that

657
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 2: didn't happen. But it was a very polarizing relationship and

658
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 2: even though the show was beloved, it was also very polarizing.

659
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 2: Like I guess, a really simplified way to look at

660
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 2: it is back then. It's like, if you wanted to

661
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 2: put it in political terms, like conservatives didn't like us

662
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 2: because we were like naked sluts, and then liberals didn't

663
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 2: like us because they thought we weren't feminists. So it's

664
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 2: like you're kind of getting hate from all sides and people,

665
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 2: I don't know. There were people that loved the show

666
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: and were mad that I left and the relationship didn't

667
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 2: work out, And then there were people who just kind

668
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 2: of knew something was wrong, but you know, beneath the surface.

669
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: So it was to navigate.

670
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're right, so layered mm hmm. And I

671
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: too can relate with that, because when you are a

672
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: part of something that is so iconic, so looked at

673
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: from other people's perspective as being this amazing, incredible thing,

674
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: either wanting it or hating it, it gets it twists

675
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: things like for yourself.

676
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has more of an effect than people would think.

677
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 2: It's weird.

678
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, dating for anyone really, not just a single mom.

679
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: It's really not for the faint of heart. These days,

680
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: I've been there. Do you think you're gonna be ready

681
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: to date again?

682
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 2: I'm kind of like, I can't picture myself like dating,

683
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 2: so to speak, I'm like a long term relationship girl,

684
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: Like if it's like a long term relationship or nothing like.

685
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 2: I'm kind of at the point in my life where

686
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: I'm so busy with stuff that I'm like, either it's

687
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: the one or nothing, Like, I'm not interested in the

688
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 2: guy who's kind of hot or he's fun to sleep with,

689
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 2: or I'm going to date this guy here, and I'm

690
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 2: not interested in that capacity. What I like to find

691
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 2: love again, yes, But even like with my last relationship,

692
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 2: which is the only guy I dated since my divorce,

693
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 2: it was just hard because you know, I don't want

694
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: to introduce my kids to somebody unless I'm engaged, and

695
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 2: then I'm very busy with work. I'm very busy with

696
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: co parenting, So trying to find a slot in my

697
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: life to see a guy, even though I ended up

698
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 2: being with him for six years and it was quite

699
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 2: a serious relationship, from my perspective, it's just it's exhausting,

700
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 2: Like I don't have enough time in the day.

701
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: You know, it takes a lot of work.

702
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm. So if it's not the one, I don't

703
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 2: have time for it.

704
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: And you've reached the age and you are independent, you're

705
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: a self made woman, like you're you're having such success now.

706
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: I think it just puts things into perspective one hundred percent.

707
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 2: I just don't have time for it. Like I already

708
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 2: have kids, I already have my dream wedding. I don't

709
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: have these kind of goals I need to check off,

710
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: Like I just want the love of my life, you know,

711
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: I don't want to waste my time with anything less.

712
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll know, we kind of talked about this earlier,

713
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: how you had that example of love growing up and

714
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: still do with your parents. Do you think that you

715
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: have had that in your own relationships yet?

716
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: No, or I'd still be with that person.

717
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's hard. You know, you want to

718
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: live up to what your parents had or what you

719
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: saw as a kid, and any and anything that falls

720
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: short of that kind of feels like a failure.

721
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 2: Almost totally one hundred percent.

722
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: So you and your girls next door co star bridget

723
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: how to rewatch podcasts? Like you mentioned, I have a

724
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: nine or two and oh rewatch podcast with my co

725
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 1: star Toy. Yes, and sometimes it's almost tortuous to oh

726
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: watch yourself.

727
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 2: Right, it's so all over the place. There's like the

728
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: really torturous cringe moments, but the moments I feel like

729
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 2: I need to apologize for because I feel like it

730
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 2: came off sounding mean about somebody when I didn't mean it.

731
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 2: And then there's and then sometimes, you know, I will

732
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 2: say about my rewatch podcast because I had written a

733
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 2: book about my experience at the Mansion, which was very

734
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 2: much talking about the negative because I felt like that

735
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 2: was the side nobody had seen through Girls next Door.

736
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 2: But I feel like during the rewatch podcast it allows

737
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 2: me more to reclaim like the good times as well,

738
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: like oh, that road trip we did with just the

739
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 2: girls was really fun, or you know, these buffet and

740
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: movie nights were really fun. So that's the positive side

741
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 2: of it from my perspective. But yeah, there's a lot

742
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 2: of cringe too, and a lot of stuff that, you know,

743
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: we have to point out, like that was totally fake

744
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 2: and that wasn't the way things really went down.

745
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, when I'm watching myself back and I

746
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: see that younger me on the on the screen the TV,

747
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: I've always like, Wow, look what you did, Look what

748
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: you survived. You know, I can I know what was

749
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: going on in your real life during this time for

750
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,919
Speaker 1: you know in this season of the show, and look,

751
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: look how how far you've come, do you? I mean,

752
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: I do can't imagine what it must be like for

753
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: you to have to rewatch something that was actually the

754
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: reality of you being in a relationship that caused you trauma,

755
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: like going, do you go back to those feelings?

756
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I've worked through a lot of them

757
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 2: just from like writing my book and stuff, so it's

758
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 2: not completely fresh, but it's hard sometimes, like I will

759
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 2: watch things that will piss me off all over again

760
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 2: or me upset.

761
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

762
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 2: I mean at the end of the day, I'm glad

763
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 2: to be out of it, so that's a positive.

764
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. And at the end of the day, it was

765
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: a stepping stone for where you are right now with

766
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 1: your two beautiful children.

767
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 2: Totally, and it was, you know, even taking in the

768
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 2: negative parts into consideration, like I never wanted an ordinary life,

769
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 2: and then that's what I got.

770
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: You got an unordinary life. Girl. I'm proud of you.

771
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yes, you have a twelve year old

772
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: daughter and a nine year old son. Their names are incredible,

773
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: Rainbow and Forest, two of my favorite things. Thank you

774
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: love that you named them that it seems like kids

775
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: are getting on the internet now and growing up so fast,

776
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: and you know, how do you feel about that with

777
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: your kids? Like do you are you do you control

778
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 1: their access to things that they're seeing on the internet

779
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: or are you able to?

780
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 2: We do we? Me and their dad were both very

781
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 2: strict about it. They don't have phones, they do have iPads.

782
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:54,959
Speaker 2: They're limited to an hour a day.

783
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: My daughter loves my gosh, you are you are amazing

784
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: because I that I wanted to do that, and I

785
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,879
Speaker 1: never like made it happen, like I was too weak.

786
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 1: I gave in.

787
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 2: And know it's hard because she all she wants to do.

788
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 2: You know, she's obviously has other hobbies and things we

789
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 2: make her do, but all she wants to do is

790
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 2: be on the iPad with her friends. Yeah, it's a

791
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 2: lot of fights, but you know, we keep it strict.

792
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: Sometimes they'll get a road trip where they can take

793
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: their iPad in the car, but then Wi Fi doesn't

794
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: work the whole time either, So yeah, they only get

795
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 2: like an hour of iPad time. And they like to

796
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 2: watch things like we'll let them watch shorts on YouTube,

797
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: like on the big TV in the family room, you know,

798
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: on the kid only channel. So they like that. So

799
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 2: and sometimes something I'll come through that's a little bit inappropriate,

800
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 2: but I always you know, pointed out and we laugh

801
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 2: about it, and I think, I think things are pretty

802
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:48,399
Speaker 2: good so far.

803
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, twelve, we're so good. Twelve is where it

804
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 1: starts to get even more challenging because they want to

805
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: do all the things that their friends are doing. Yeah,

806
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: and then you're like, it's hard to stay strong and

807
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: be the mean mom that doesn't let them do what

808
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: everybody else is doing.

809
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 2: Totally one hundred percent.

810
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, do your kids want to be in the industry

811
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: at all?

812
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 2: Do you know?

813
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: Do they do they have any interest in entertainment of

814
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: any kind?

815
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 2: Sometimes my daughter asks about it and I have to

816
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 2: tell her, like, I don't think it's fun like you

817
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: think it is. Like you have to get up really early,

818
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 2: which you have to sit in a makeup chair for

819
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 2: like hours, you know, you have to do a lot

820
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 2: of reading, and I don't think it's as fun as

821
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: you think it is.

822
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, but I tell her.

823
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: You know, when you're eighteen, you can do what you want.

824
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: But you do what you want. You are just so beautiful,

825
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: so are you?

826
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 2: Oh God, are you kidding? You're like the idol of

827
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 2: my teenage years. You're like the beautiful woman.

828
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: How I know how I have felt about it, But

829
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: how have you felt when it comes to aging in

830
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: the public eye. Do you ever feel like pressure? Because

831
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: then I can really you were captured on film and

832
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: you know, you were in Playboy and you are frozen

833
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: in people's memories in a certain way. Do you do

834
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: you feel that pressure? Does that weigh on you or

835
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: how do you get around that?

836
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 2: I part of me has a sense of humor about

837
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: it because I was being told I was too old

838
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 2: from the day I set foot in la or not

839
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,439
Speaker 2: too old, but like you're gonna be too old because

840
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 2: I'd be like waitressing, and you know, there'd be like

841
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 2: two older men at a table trying to act like

842
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 2: they're in the industry when they're really not, which is

843
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 2: such a common thing in La. Oh, they're like asking

844
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: me what I'm trying to do, and how old are you? Oh,

845
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 2: I'm nineteen. Well you're better hurry up and make you're it.

846
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 2: You're almost over the hill. So it's like I almost

847
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 2: have a sense of humor about it now because like

848
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 2: I'm forty six, and it's like if somebody wants to

849
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 2: tell me I'm old today. Cool because they were telling

850
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 2: me that when I was nineteen. Like, it's just it

851
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 2: means nothing to me now. Although but I do, you know,

852
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 2: I do care about how I look, and I do

853
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 2: Looking a certain way is fun for me. It's a hobby,

854
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 2: I like, you know, especially for making content online doing

855
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 2: my TV shows, I want to look a certain way,

856
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 2: like I'm in true crime now, and true crime lighting

857
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 2: is brutal. Going into season two of my true crime shows,

858
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:11,720
Speaker 2: I was like, you guys, I'm gonna need a little

859
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 2: bit more lighting, Like I can't do the true crime

860
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 2: lighting anymore. So they were kind and they gave me

861
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 2: an extra light. But yeah, I mean, I get some

862
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 2: dysmorphia and stuff. I think the time I felt worst

863
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 2: about it was after I'd had my son, which is

864
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 2: my second kid. It was twenty I had him in

865
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, and this was around the time when social

866
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 2: media had been around for a minute, but everybody was

867
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 2: really getting online and really doing the front facing camera

868
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 2: stuff and selfies were the thing. And like, if I

869
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 2: scroll back on my camera roll to twenty sixteen, I

870
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 2: just see reams of me trying to take a picture

871
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 2: of my own face for whatever reason, and never liking

872
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 2: it because you know, when you're pregnant, you know, you

873
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 2: gain weight and things swell up, and your face even

874
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 2: kind of changes and things around a little bit. And

875
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 2: I just remember that feeling comes back when I see

876
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 2: those pictures, and the feeling of not recognizing who I

877
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 2: was anymore and feeling just so out of touch and

878
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: out of out of it. And you know, the postpartum

879
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 2: and the pregnancy hormones don't help with that, and it

880
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 2: was just such a sad, depressing feeling like I felt

881
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,479
Speaker 2: like I wasn't myself anymore. And you know, I'm over

882
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 2: that now and I'm back and I've learned a contour

883
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 2: and I'm happy with the face again. But yeah, it's

884
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 2: a real thing. It happens, and it's just interesting how

885
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 2: it can really sometimes affect your sense of who you are,

886
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: even though like we all know deep down that we're

887
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 2: not you know, who ares people is not what we

888
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 2: look like. But when I was trying to learn a

889
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 2: flattering selfie angle, it was rough.

890
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: I have so many of those bursts on my phone too,

891
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: where you're like, I don't like it, Like I've got it, yeah,

892
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: and then if someone by chance picks up your phone

893
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: and looks at your camera, world, it's so embarrassing.

894
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 2: Totally, and it's like the iPhone front facing camera is

895
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: no one's friend, and it's sad and it doesn't match

896
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 2: what we see in the mirror, and I hate it.

897
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: That's so true. You talked before, and you've been really

898
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: open about your diagnosis with autism. Do you think that

899
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: having that diagnosis or being having that awareness has impacted

900
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: your romantic relationships at all.

901
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 2: Well, I just broke it off with the guy I

902
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 2: was with when I found out I was on the spectrum,

903
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 2: and he was always, you know, great with talking to

904
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 2: me about it and being very understanding and things like that.

905
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 2: So he was a great person to be with for that.

906
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,959
Speaker 2: I think it will make you know the next person

907
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 2: I'm with, I think it'll make it easier because I

908
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 2: think I'm better at communicating, making eye contact, you know,

909
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 2: understanding how I come across when I was so clueless

910
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 2: about it before. Yeah, hopefully that will be a positive.

911
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,919
Speaker 1: I think that that awareness that it gives you sort

912
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 1: of a relief and then opening to be more gracious

913
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: with yourself, you know, and allow yourself like to be

914
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: a little bit more kinder to yourself. Yeah, you're dealing

915
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: with something of that other people don't have to deal with.

916
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think when other people know that about

917
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 2: me too, maybe they won't take it so personally when

918
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 2: they catch me like zoning out or some some weird

919
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,439
Speaker 2: thing that I do. Where before it was like, oh

920
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 2: my god, this bitch hates me and she's being so judgy.

921
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 2: Why is she?

922
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: I think that you are such a survivor. Thanks, And

923
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: I wonder what made you go into the true crime area.

924
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 2: Growing up, I always loved things like unsolved mysteries. I

925
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 2: always loved stuff that was a little bit creepy and

926
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 2: a little bit mysterious, even my fascination with like old Hollywood,

927
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 2: like I grew up obsessed with Marilyn Monroe, Like I

928
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 2: always loved the stories that kind of had a hint

929
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 2: of tragedy to them. For some reason, I was always

930
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,760
Speaker 2: really drawn to those, and I never thought about getting

931
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 2: into true crime on my own, like I was always

932
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 2: a consumer of it, different podcasts I love listening to

933
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 2: and things like that. But my agent came to me

934
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 2: with the idea for Playboy Murders that the production company

935
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 2: had come to him with He's like, you know, if

936
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 2: you want to do this, the network wants to greenlight it.

937
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:17,919
Speaker 2: And at first I was like no, because I didn't

938
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 2: want to do another Playboy branded thing. I was like,

939
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 2: I can't. I've reached my limit no more. But then

940
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 2: he's like, let me just send you the deck and

941
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 2: you know, let me know what you think. So he

942
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 2: sent me the deck and it was a lot of

943
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 2: cases I'd never heard of. They were all so different,

944
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 2: they were all so interesting, and I was like, no, wait,

945
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 2: this is a show I would actually watch. So that's

946
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 2: when I knew I wanted to be involved. And it's

947
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: just been such a rewarding, interesting process to be a

948
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 2: part of and I love doing it and I hope

949
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 2: we can do them more.

950
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm really intrigued by it too. I

951
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: watched a little bit of it and I didn't know

952
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: about these cases, And so are all the cases on

953
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 1: the show about people in that world the play mates

954
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: play pla Boy world.

955
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, in those cases, there's always somebody in each case,

956
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 2: whether it's the victim or the perpetrator, or somebody who

957
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 2: witnessed something in a major way. Was a part of

958
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 2: the Playboy world, whether they worked for the magazine or

959
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 2: were a bunny at one of the clubs, or we're

960
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,720
Speaker 2: a playmate. So you know, a lot of my purpose

961
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 2: in the show as a talking hat is to give

962
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: a lot of background on what that world is like

963
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 2: and what the jobs were like and the history of

964
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 2: it and things like that. And each story is so

965
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 2: incredibly different. And we're on our third season now. I

966
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,399
Speaker 2: can't even believe we've found this many cases. But when

967
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 2: you think about, you know, how long Playboy has been

968
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 2: in business, and how many Playboy clubs there were across

969
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: the country, and how many people worked for the company,

970
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 2: I guess it makes sense. So yeah, season three, you're.

971
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,399
Speaker 1: Going into season three mm hmm, that's so great. I'm

972
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: really happy for you. I'm glad you said yes to

973
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: it because it sounds like it's not it's not putting

974
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: you back where you don't want to be. It's putting

975
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 1: you into a place now where you're serving a different role.

976
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love telling the stories. I love and with

977
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: my other true crime show, Lethally Blonde, a lot of

978
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 2: the stories, not all of them, but a lot of

979
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 2: the stories focus on people who are involved in sex work.

980
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 2: So I like to tell a broader story about the

981
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: person rather than oh they were a dancer, or oh

982
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 2: you know they were you know, working, you know, just

983
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 2: doing escorting or whatever. People tend to get brushed off

984
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 2: that way. So I like to look into who was

985
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 2: this person and what else? Like if I were that person,

986
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 2: what would I want people to know about me? What

987
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 2: else about? Paint a broader picture of what was going

988
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,479
Speaker 2: on in their lives? Except so many people get written off,

989
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 2: and you know, so many people are targeted. Perpetrators will

990
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 2: often look for sex workers because they think those are

991
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 2: the people who are on the fringes of society, and

992
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 2: those are the people that won't be looked for, so

993
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 2: they think they'll have more of a chance of getting

994
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:47,359
Speaker 2: away with it.

995
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: That's so sad. It's so sick. Do you feel like

996
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: exposing to yourself to all of that impacts you in

997
00:46:58,120 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: a negative way at all?

998
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,760
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think I focus so much

999
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,879
Speaker 2: on trying to get to know as best I can.

1000
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 2: Obviously from the distance I'm at who I think that

1001
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 2: person was and what else is going on in their life.

1002
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 2: It's sad, of course, but I feel good trying to

1003
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 2: tell their story in a dignified way. And one thing

1004
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 2: that's really special to me about season three of the

1005
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 2: Playboy Murders and season two of Lethally Blonde, which will

1006
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 2: come out after this, is there are so many family

1007
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 2: members of the victims who wanted to come forward and

1008
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 2: share their stories. We didn't have that in the beginning,

1009
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 2: you know, we would always reach out to the families

1010
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 2: every single case. But I think because we have seasons,

1011
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 2: you know, living on Max now that people can go

1012
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 2: watch and see what kind of a show this is

1013
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 2: and how we tell the stories, people want to be there.

1014
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 2: And it's horrible that the stories have to be told

1015
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 2: in the first place. But if you have to tell

1016
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 2: the story, I think the best person or the best

1017
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 2: people to get the last word are the loved ones

1018
00:47:58,280 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 2: of the who are lost.

1019
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I don't think a lot of people

1020
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 1: know about the dark history of Playboy. Did you know

1021
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: about it when you entered into that world, when you

1022
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:07,959
Speaker 1: lived there?

1023
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit. I mean I learned about it

1024
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 2: as I was there. Hef was a really big scrap booker.

1025
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 2: He had two thousand volumes of scrap book on his life,

1026
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 2: and he would save anything that was written about him

1027
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,720
Speaker 2: whether it was positive or negative. So over the years

1028
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 2: I would come across things like maybe a book that

1029
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 2: was written about him in the seventies that had a

1030
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 2: lot of negative things in there that I almost didn't

1031
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 2: want to believe, just because this was the person that

1032
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 2: I loved and cared about. So I would, you know,

1033
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 2: make excuses in my head like, oh, well, this can't

1034
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 2: be true, or you.

1035
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, but it was. Yeah, that's wild. What a

1036
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: life you've lived, fascinating, interesting, and.

1037
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 2: You're not you're altomster.

1038
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, who. I'm sure who expected it. But to

1039
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: see you succeeding and pulling away from it and surviving

1040
00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: that trauma and thriving is really inspirational.

1041
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

1042
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:07,760
Speaker 1: And to see you as an example to other women

1043
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: to be able to stand up for yourself and risk

1044
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: losing it all in order to survive in order to

1045
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: take better care of yourself is really really inspiring.

1046
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, you have to follow your gut when

1047
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 2: you know it's time to go, it's time to go,

1048
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 2: for sure. There were no guarantees. You know, we'd been

1049
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 2: on a hit TV show for a while, but you know,

1050
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,879
Speaker 2: we'd been in this playboy bubble where nobody could really

1051
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 2: reach us as far as other opportunities, like, I didn't

1052
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 2: think I would have anything waiting for me. On the

1053
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 2: other side, I had like a tiny bit of money

1054
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,800
Speaker 2: I saved up, and all I knew was I couldn't

1055
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 2: do this anymore.

1056
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 1: Where did you go when you moved out?

1057
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 2: Well, I moved down the hall at first because I

1058
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 2: had to fish doing some scenes for season five, so

1059
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 2: I had a little bit of time to kind of

1060
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 2: get myself together. And I immediately started dating a guy

1061
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 2: who was real bad news, and that did pretty quickly.

1062
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,240
Speaker 2: But I had put money down on an investment property

1063
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,280
Speaker 2: that I had wanted to rent out, and I had

1064
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,720
Speaker 2: crashed there for a while and then almost I would

1065
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 2: say like four months after I moved out, fully, I

1066
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 2: broke up with that bad relationship. And I had been

1067
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 2: wanting to do Dancing with the Stars so bad, and

1068
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 2: I kept like auditioning and trying out and they kept saying, no,

1069
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 2: you know, I don't think it's going to work like

1070
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 2: you're you're dating this eighty year old man. I don't

1071
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 2: think Middle America is going to accept you. But they

1072
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 2: finally took me on because one of the contestants got

1073
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 2: injured right before the season started, and they needed somebody

1074
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 2: last minute. So they're like, who wants to do this

1075
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 2: so bad that they're going to step in last minute

1076
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,879
Speaker 2: without all the rehearsal everybody else has had. Oh my god,

1077
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 2: it's me, It's me, It's me. Yeah, And I'd so

1078
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 2: much fun and it was such an amazing couple of months.

1079
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 2: And during that time, I also like one of my

1080
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 2: goals was I was a really big fan of Deeda

1081
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 2: Anties and The Crazy Horse and Paris and things like that,

1082
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 2: and I really wanted to do something in burlesque just

1083
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 2: for fun. Like my original idea was I was going

1084
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:03,959
Speaker 2: to do it as like a plotline for Girls next Door,

1085
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 2: like kind of a one and done just for fun.

1086
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 2: But then I kind of got this in my idea

1087
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 2: after talking to a few people, No, I'd really like

1088
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 2: to do something in Vegas at one of the places

1089
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 2: on the Strip. And they happened to have a new

1090
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 2: show that was opening that was a thirty million dollar budget,

1091
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 2: you know, from Broadway directors, this burlesque show coming in

1092
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 2: and they were looking for somebody for that, and I

1093
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 2: was auditioning for it while I was doing dancing with

1094
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 2: the stars, and I ended up getting that, and it

1095
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: was just like everything kind of fell into place, like

1096
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 2: everything I wanted. It was like the ultimate, you know,

1097
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 2: domino effect of manifestation. But I could never predicted that.

1098
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 2: Like when I decided to leave the mansion, I was like,

1099
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm going to do, Like I

1100
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 2: can't afford an assistant anymore, Like all I have to

1101
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 2: you know, I have time to just do my own errands,

1102
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,399
Speaker 2: like I really didn't know, Like I have this list

1103
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 2: of things I wanted to do, but they all seemed

1104
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 2: like such long shots, but they really fell into place.

1105
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 1: That's the thing. When one door closes and you let

1106
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: that other door open, it's logical things happen.

1107
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so scary. It's like the whole jump and

1108
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 2: the net will appear thing. And I'm still at forty

1109
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 2: six years old. I'm not used to it. But I

1110
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 2: know it's a thing, and I know it's true, and

1111
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 2: I know it's what I have to keep doing.

1112
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I keep pushing for that. That's so amazing. Well,

1113
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: before I let you go, Hollie Madison, what was your

1114
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: last I choose me moment?

1115
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 2: This is just so simple and silly but I just

1116
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 2: have to choose to enjoy life because I'm really achievement oriented,

1117
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:32,800
Speaker 2: and I tend to throughout my life go through different

1118
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,879
Speaker 2: phases of like having anxiety of not having achieved enough,

1119
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 2: or I'm not on track or I haven't done this yet.

1120
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 2: And every day like I'm looking at it right now

1121
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 2: because I'm sitting in front of my window, like I

1122
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,760
Speaker 2: love my backyard. It's so pretty, and every day almost

1123
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 2: I take a picture of it and I post up

1124
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 2: my Instagram story and I'm like, it's a perfect day.

1125
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 2: And I just remind myself to like choose to love

1126
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 2: life every day because you could have the most amazing life,

1127
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 2: which I feel like I do, and still fall into

1128
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 2: this weird where you feel like you don't have enough,

1129
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 2: you're not achieving enough, and no, no, you just have

1130
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,879
Speaker 2: to choose to love life. So that's mine. I choose

1131
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 2: me moment that is a perfect one.

1132
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming and being with us today.

1133
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: I have loved talking to you and getting to know

1134
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:16,959
Speaker 1: you a little bit more.

1135
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm such a huge fan. It was such

1136
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 2: a privilege to talk to you and this was so nice.

1137
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

1138
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: I'll be rooting for you, thank you, where you go,

1139
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 1: thanky so much, have a good one.

1140
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 2: Bye bye.