Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,
Speaker 1: and today we're discussing how you can use it up,
Speaker 1: wear it out, make it do or do without with
Speaker 1: Katie Woke Stanley. That's right, yeah, So everybody has heard
Speaker 1: of a consumer advocate before, right, Like that's someone who
Speaker 1: helps to make sure that individuals are getting the best
Speaker 1: deal possible, or maybe to make sure that the quality
Speaker 1: of those products is up to snuff. I'm thinking of
Speaker 1: consumer reports, the countless reporting and tests that they perform
Speaker 1: on basically any item out there that you can buy.
Speaker 1: But you likely haven't heard of a non consumer advocate before,
Speaker 1: and that is who we're talking with today, our friend
Speaker 1: Katie Woke Stanley. Katie is the non consumer advocate. Her
Speaker 1: site is the Consumer Advocate dot com, and she helps
Speaker 1: people to learn to live on less and to do
Speaker 1: so in a way that lessens their environmental impact. She
Speaker 1: is an uber frugal light who hardly ever buys anything new,
Speaker 1: and she uses that superpower to help others to live
Speaker 1: on as little income as possible. So we're gonna be
Speaker 1: talking about all these different tactics today that anyone out
Speaker 1: there can do. You know, whether you choose to. That's
Speaker 1: up to you. But we are excited for our conversation today. Katie.
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us on the podcast. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much, Joel and Matt for having me. All Right, Katie,
Speaker 1: I'm really curious to hear your answer to the question
Speaker 1: that we ask everybody when they come on the show,
Speaker 1: because you are you approach buying things differently than pretty
Speaker 1: much any guess we've had on before. So Matt and
Speaker 1: I we splurge on craft beer and even while we're
Speaker 1: saving the investing for the future, is there something you
Speaker 1: splurge on in the here and now? I don't even
Speaker 1: know well what I splurge on here and now. It
Speaker 1: changes like through the years as I've gone through different
Speaker 1: points in life. At the moment, what I love displourage
Speaker 1: on is my adult kids. Although at twenty four and
Speaker 1: twenty seven, they have gone into college, they've graduated, they
Speaker 1: have flown the coop, they work full time. I know
Speaker 1: that money is tight for them, and so I like
Speaker 1: to be able to take them out to eat. I
Speaker 1: like to slip them a little money here and there.
Speaker 1: They don't ask for money and so they really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: And it's it's a treat. My parents certainly, you know,
Speaker 1: did a little bit of that when I was young
Speaker 1: and just getting started in my adult life, and I'm
Speaker 1: happy and privileged to be able to do it for them. Well,
Speaker 1: love it. I guess that never goes away because there's
Speaker 1: you know, Jill having three me having four kids. There's
Speaker 1: obviously a certain amount of that that we do now
Speaker 1: while still trying to find that balance of making sure
Speaker 1: that they understand them money. It doesn't just grow on trees.
Speaker 1: But maybe after you teach them those lessons, maybe you
Speaker 1: feel a little more freedom to slip them some bills
Speaker 1: instead of chocolates. For Valentine's Day, I gave me each
Speaker 1: one hundred bucks. I mean, that's come on, that's what
Speaker 1: That's what we need. We don't need more sugar in
Speaker 1: our diets, right calls out that inflammation or whatever it
Speaker 1: is of anyway, Katie, your slogan, or like the Moniker
Speaker 1: that your site is, goes by is use it up,
Speaker 1: wear it out, make it do or do without. And
Speaker 1: we'll kind of cover each of these, we'll cover the
Speaker 1: spectrum of how these kind of play out in your life.
Speaker 1: But can you first tell us why that has become
Speaker 1: your motto. Where did you come across that? And why
Speaker 1: is it? You know that resonates with you? It is
Speaker 1: a term that I certainly did not make up myself.
Speaker 1: You'll find it used during World War Two. That was
Speaker 1: like an effort to get people to kind of be
Speaker 1: more thoughtful with howard they were consuming goods that needed
Speaker 1: to be used for the war effort. But apparently it
Speaker 1: goes back farther than that. I've had different people say
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, that's an old Yankee term, or
Speaker 1: that's a New England term. So I don't I've never
Speaker 1: really been able to find out, you know, where precisely
Speaker 1: it came up. But whenever I've come across that, even
Speaker 1: long before I was blogging, it just really resonated with me,
Speaker 1: and I was like, that is great. It's so like concise,
Speaker 1: and yet it's it's wide and meaningful. Yeah, it feels
Speaker 1: so kind of like foreign to the way so many
Speaker 1: people live life today though. So it is interesting that
Speaker 1: we were talking before we started recording about how about
Speaker 1: rabid fan bases, And I think the people who follow you,
Speaker 1: they are kind of rabbid in that way, like because
Speaker 1: and I think part of it is because this slogan
Speaker 1: is so antithetical to kind of so much of the
Speaker 1: way our modern society functions. Yes, especially when it's just
Speaker 1: so easy to um, you don't have to go on
Speaker 1: your computer to buy stuff. You know, you've got that
Speaker 1: Amazon app and you just like, you know, swiped to buy.
Speaker 1: It's so easy and frankly so cheap. But I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: this thing is how is this seven dollars? And it
Speaker 1: includes shipping when you know the shipping costs more than
Speaker 1: that if we were to ship it ourselves. People want
Speaker 1: a different perspective, and I think that is why people,
Speaker 1: as you said, a rabbit, I would just say more
Speaker 1: loyal yeah to me at I don't know, I see
Speaker 1: them foaming at the mouth all the time. Following I
Speaker 1: am curious though, because yeah, you say, use it up,
Speaker 1: wear it out, make it do or do without. And
Speaker 1: so what makes your list of things that you will
Speaker 1: purchase brand new or there are is there anything or
Speaker 1: like or absolutely there are absolutely things that I do
Speaker 1: buy new and I start and by the way, I
Speaker 1: started the buy nothing new practice myself even before I
Speaker 1: started blogging, So that was I think, like in two
Speaker 1: thousand and six, two thousand and seven I am not
Speaker 1: out there like looking for a used toothbrush, so I
Speaker 1: would that's good to know. I would categorize that or
Speaker 1: like a personal care item. Okay, something that is like
Speaker 1: touching my body in that way. I don't mean like clothes,
Speaker 1: but floss, tooth fresh undergarments. I think, you know, although
Speaker 1: I have bought used songs before because you can just
Speaker 1: wash them and sometimes they look amazing. Well, and your
Speaker 1: feet are so peripheral, I mean you know, though, like
Speaker 1: they're basically the closer you get to the core of
Speaker 1: your body, I too would also want to like the
Speaker 1: further it gets away from my face or my mouth,
Speaker 1: I think I would be more comfortable with going a
Speaker 1: little more used. We bought a brand new mattress at
Speaker 1: this point, like two years ago. And although I have
Speaker 1: gotten a used mattress before, and I got it from
Speaker 1: somebody that I knew, that was just not something I
Speaker 1: wanted to use. There's just two. Once you start thinking
Speaker 1: of bed bugs, you can't stop thinking about, right, Well,
Speaker 1: that might be one area where I've got you beat, Katie,
Speaker 1: because we my wife and I slept Actually, no, shoot,
Speaker 1: we still have this mattress. Our daughter is now sleeping
Speaker 1: on it. But we got to use mattress for free
Speaker 1: from a neighbor. But we knew them. They're neighbors of
Speaker 1: a friend of ours, so they knew them, and so implicitly,
Speaker 1: I guess we trusted them. But I'm telling you it's
Speaker 1: a good mattress. Yeah, and it's like anything we regretted.
Speaker 1: Sometimes getting stuff up the side of the road can
Speaker 1: be a little daunting. I had a friend who brought
Speaker 1: home a chair that looked nice, but then it had bedbugs,
Speaker 1: and that caused a whole mess. So you want to
Speaker 1: avoid that, just burn the whole apartment down. I guess, right,
Speaker 1: And that's the case. I do a lot of curbside
Speaker 1: shopping and a tremendous amount of thrifting for things that
Speaker 1: I want and need, And if it's even slightly something
Speaker 1: that could have bedbugs, I examine it in the store,
Speaker 1: and then I also leave it on my porch so
Speaker 1: I can't give it a better examination. I've never had
Speaker 1: get the headline something that I would call a cautionary
Speaker 1: tale from that though, got it okay? Well, so we're
Speaker 1: kind of talking about I don't know, just buying stuff new, Katie, Like,
Speaker 1: do you have any thoughts on buying things that are
Speaker 1: more well made, like things that are higher quality that
Speaker 1: come with maybe better warranties. Is that important to you,
Speaker 1: you know, when when you're at least occasionally buying something
Speaker 1: that that hasn't previously been used. Yes, although mostly I
Speaker 1: really don't buy that much stuff. And I understand what
Speaker 1: you're getting at um to you buying like a higher
Speaker 1: quality item from a responsible company exactly, warranty that will
Speaker 1: stand behind their product is always like the ideal. My
Speaker 1: goal is to then just get it used when the
Speaker 1: person who initially bought it gets bored with it. I
Speaker 1: like that well. And one of the things that you've
Speaker 1: you've written about, you've talked about too, is that you
Speaker 1: prioritize lower tech solutions because those things need to be
Speaker 1: replaced less frequently. And I think, like you've mentioned tea kettles,
Speaker 1: and it's funny because we went to like an electric
Speaker 1: tea kettle, but we've had like they didn't last very long,
Speaker 1: and so I'm like, do I need to go back
Speaker 1: to just this basic like just kettle on the on
Speaker 1: the stove things. That's I mean, that's kind of your approach, right. Yes,
Speaker 1: I do have a kettle on the stove, and it
Speaker 1: is such an although it's not that old, it is
Speaker 1: probably I know, fifteen years old at this point. It's
Speaker 1: exactly the one that you can see on the show Madmen,
Speaker 1: so it's classical one. But yeah, I don't want things
Speaker 1: that I'm going to have to replace. I did just
Speaker 1: buy a new refrigerator this fall, now that I think
Speaker 1: of it, and I did get one that had like
Speaker 1: zero bells and whistles. The less that's going on with
Speaker 1: the stuff that you own, the less that can go
Speaker 1: wrong with it. Yeah. Yeah, you don't want your fridge
Speaker 1: connected to the internet with like a tablet on it
Speaker 1: and all this other kind of stuff. You're right, I
Speaker 1: mean I think that that is like there's more stuff
Speaker 1: to replace, and it's the same kind of with modern
Speaker 1: cars often these days too. And if it's simpler, it's
Speaker 1: something that you could conceivably repair yourself with a good
Speaker 1: YouTube video. Yeah, yep, Okay, So I think you're right
Speaker 1: on that. And I guess like a lot of people
Speaker 1: opt to replace items that I could easily be fixed.
Speaker 1: But you have described yourself as a serial repairer. And
Speaker 1: I remember when we've worked together, Katie back in the day,
Speaker 1: and I learned about this thing called sue grew from you,
Speaker 1: which is like multiple clay and glue which helps repair
Speaker 1: all sorts of things. I think you actually sent me
Speaker 1: some in the mail, and I love I love that
Speaker 1: like that you yeah, And I love that You're just
Speaker 1: kind of all about like fixing stuff whenever you can, So, like,
Speaker 1: do you have any best DIY tips for fixing things
Speaker 1: that break from time to time in your life? I've
Speaker 1: just said it, but YouTube, there is very rarely something
Speaker 1: that you're trying to figure out how to do that
Speaker 1: you can't find on YouTube that somebody else has done
Speaker 1: themselves and put together a video about it. You don't
Speaker 1: need to invent the wheel. My husband and I we
Speaker 1: both just you know, if something is wrong, we want
Speaker 1: to know how can we fix this? How can and
Speaker 1: in that way we're able to avoid making new purchases.
Speaker 1: As an example is I was at my son's rental
Speaker 1: house and I noticed that they had a busted up
Speaker 1: dining room chair in the corner of the room, and
Speaker 1: I asked his roommate, Hey, do you want me to
Speaker 1: fix this? And he was like, what, I'm like, that
Speaker 1: looks reparable. Would you want me to fix this, and
Speaker 1: he was like, uh, okay, I guess ladies, just you
Speaker 1: know his roommate's mom. So brought it home and it
Speaker 1: just was a matter of gluing and clamping in a
Speaker 1: couple of different stages. And my son took it back
Speaker 1: last night. And it is not a beautiful chair to
Speaker 1: be handed down to your ancestors, but you know what,
Speaker 1: it's now a functional piece and it literally saves it
Speaker 1: from the landfill, and yeah, makes it so that they
Speaker 1: can have like a you know, proper number of people
Speaker 1: at the dining room table if that ever worked, which
Speaker 1: is honestly, that's that's the most important thing, right, the
Speaker 1: ability for folks to gather around that table. I mean
Speaker 1: well with furniture in particular, when you have older furniture
Speaker 1: that isn't just particle board. It's made from real wood.
Speaker 1: You can glue it right, like blood glue, like joints
Speaker 1: or whatever where you've used glue. I've learned from personal experience.
Speaker 1: It's all. I mean, I think it's stronger than other
Speaker 1: parts of that year. Like it's not going to break
Speaker 1: there again if you have a good bond. But how
Speaker 1: do you know, like when something is beyond repairing, because
Speaker 1: it's difficult to know just like is this something that
Speaker 1: I can tackle myself, or like, how do you know
Speaker 1: it's when it truly is time to just toss it
Speaker 1: out and replace it completely. Well, there isn't necessarily like
Speaker 1: a single single answer to that, But I'm going to
Speaker 1: go back to the example the refrigerator that my husband
Speaker 1: and I just got from Costco. You'll like that Joel
Speaker 1: up their products. So that was good. And this fridge
Speaker 1: that we had that we've had since nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 1: so I remember my son was an infant. It was
Speaker 1: not like a great quality item, and so we've done
Speaker 1: a lot of little repairs and my husband finally after
Speaker 1: countless repairs through the years, was like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I can't figure this out. I think it's the compressor.
Speaker 1: So we went out. We got a bare bones one,
Speaker 1: which by the one got lightly scratched during the delivery process,
Speaker 1: and Pascoe gave us like one hundred and fifty two
Speaker 1: hundred bucks back. Sweet. Yeah, And the call I wasn't
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a Karen, talk to your manager lady.
Speaker 1: They offered it. Oh nice, Okay, Well that's the kind
Speaker 1: of company they are. You know, they do stuff like that,
Speaker 1: which is they treat their employees well and they pay
Speaker 1: a living wage. So that's who I want to when
Speaker 1: I am buying new stuff. I look for companies like
Speaker 1: that to give my money to. Okay, who you buy
Speaker 1: from is really important, but so I mean, it sounds
Speaker 1: like for y'all with a fridge, it kind of came
Speaker 1: down to the maybe the total cost of the of
Speaker 1: the repair perhaps was going to total the item. And
Speaker 1: so maybe that's a decent rule of thumb for folks
Speaker 1: to kind of keep in mind. If you're going to
Speaker 1: be sinking more money into this repair and even still
Speaker 1: be subpar, then maybe it's time. It's kind of like
Speaker 1: if you have a car that's old car that's worth
Speaker 1: thirty five hundred bucks and you've got it, it's like
Speaker 1: transmission replacement time, you're like, Okay, it probably doesn't make
Speaker 1: sense to repair this thing anymore. It's time to yeah,
Speaker 1: parcel this from out for parts. Yeah, we're driving a
Speaker 1: very old car right now, and you know we just
Speaker 1: keeping it well and yeah, and it makes sense, right.
Speaker 1: I was I think we talked about on the show. Recently,
Speaker 1: I spent two hundred and eighty eight dollars to replace.
Speaker 1: I want to say it was a Solennoid or something
Speaker 1: like that, and so I had to get it replaced
Speaker 1: just to pass the emissions test or they won't let
Speaker 1: me drive in the state of Georgia. Three hundred bucks. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: I was like saying, I was like really excited to
Speaker 1: spend the money on that because it prevents me from
Speaker 1: having a car payment. And yeah, and I think you're right, Like,
Speaker 1: the more we think about what we're using and how
Speaker 1: much we're consuming on the front end, it kind of
Speaker 1: helps us to create less waste and to create less
Speaker 1: consumption and to spend less money. I'm curious too, because
Speaker 1: we're getting into spring right now and a lot of
Speaker 1: people are probably starting to think about spring cleaning. I
Speaker 1: know we are at our house. We're starting to think
Speaker 1: about decluttering a little bit more. And one of the
Speaker 1: things that you mentioned on your blog is that we
Speaker 1: can often get a tax break for donating these items
Speaker 1: to goodwill. But it's something that most people don't do properly,
Speaker 1: and the deductions can actually be significant. They can add
Speaker 1: up over time depending on what you're giving away, right,
Speaker 1: Can you talk about that? Yes, when I donate to
Speaker 1: Goodwill and they give you the little receipt. I actually
Speaker 1: in that moment, like I drive around the corner and
Speaker 1: park the car, I write two pairs men's pants, you know,
Speaker 1: one youth winter coat. Because when the time comes to
Speaker 1: do your taxes, whether you're doing like a turbo tax
Speaker 1: or maybe one of the like free versions, which I
Speaker 1: recommend that you can put all of that in. You
Speaker 1: can't just say I donated thirty five dollars of stuff.
Speaker 1: You can get so much more. They'll give you like
Speaker 1: a ten dollars credit for a single pair of men's pants.
Speaker 1: That's not a I don't specifically no right now, but
Speaker 1: it can be significant. My husband and I do our
Speaker 1: taxes ourselves, and we do them together, and he always
Speaker 1: hands the computer over and he's like, all right, put
Speaker 1: in the goodwill stuff, and it'll make difference of like
Speaker 1: hundreds of dollars of how much we're getting back. I
Speaker 1: will say, I'm worried that Dale's gonna wake up tomorrow
Speaker 1: with no pants because you're gonna go donate them all
Speaker 1: just for the tax rite offs? Who told you? Sorry? Dale? Okay,
Speaker 1: So practically speaking, so do you immediately enter those into
Speaker 1: whatever software or app you're using, or do you just
Speaker 1: kind of keep a note on your phone. They hand
Speaker 1: you a paper slip and then it has lines for
Speaker 1: what you donated and I write it on those lines.
Speaker 1: It's very and then you just keep just hang onto
Speaker 1: the paper until the until come tax season. I love it.
Speaker 1: I think that's really important, Yeah, because otherwise if you don't,
Speaker 1: if you don't do it like right then and there,
Speaker 1: I think there's a good chance you'll either forget yeah,
Speaker 1: or you might even just say forget about it. You know,
Speaker 1: you may not even take the time. Yeah, yeah, So yeah,
Speaker 1: getting that tax break, that is certainly one thing you
Speaker 1: can do with some of the additional items that you
Speaker 1: have on hand. But you can also take some of
Speaker 1: those things and sell them. We actually are going to
Speaker 1: talk a good bit about how you can make some
Speaker 1: additional income with some of your excess goods. We'll get
Speaker 1: to that, plus plenty more right after this are we
Speaker 1: are back from the break, We're still talking about using
Speaker 1: things up, wearing them out, making it do, doing without,
Speaker 1: and just kind of like buying less and being some
Speaker 1: harder with our consumption habits. We're talking with Katie walk
Speaker 1: Stanley here on the show today, and Katie, you wrote
Speaker 1: an article about how to practice extreme frugality, So I
Speaker 1: am curious. Matt and I we give the distinction between
Speaker 1: things being frugal and cheap on the show, we have
Speaker 1: a recurring segment sometimes the world debate the merits of
Speaker 1: a decision and say was that frugal or cheap? But
Speaker 1: you kind of say there's a third way. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm curious to here your your belief and how you
Speaker 1: think about being frugal or being cheap. I feel like
Speaker 1: the cheap versus frugal debate is like a false dichotomy.
Speaker 1: It's not a either one or the other black or
Speaker 1: white issue. I feel like, do you like a good
Speaker 1: then diagram? I do. I feel like you've got cheap
Speaker 1: one circle, you've got frugal the other, and then they
Speaker 1: meet in the center and you've gotten on consumerism there. Okay,
Speaker 1: so right in the middle like that, that's that's where
Speaker 1: we like to live. Katie. Yeah, I am a how
Speaker 1: Too money listener, and I have heard you guys talk
Speaker 1: about something being cheaper for who goal, and I'm I
Speaker 1: want in on the conversation. I'm like, no, there's a
Speaker 1: third choice. But I feel that like trying to think
Speaker 1: of what, like a good example would be like buying
Speaker 1: a low quality item versus buying a very expensive but
Speaker 1: higher quality item. You're like, oh, what do I do?
Speaker 1: Do I spend a thousand on this? Or do I
Speaker 1: spend four hundred on that? And I feel like there's
Speaker 1: that third choice, which is by the expensive, higher quality
Speaker 1: item but find it used. Yeah, Or like I am
Speaker 1: here in Portland, Oregon, we have like amazing restaurants and
Speaker 1: a lot of really inexpensive options to food carts and such.
Speaker 1: We have an amazing like Mexican food cart just a
Speaker 1: couple of blocks away from the house, and I'll go
Speaker 1: there and it is cheap. But what I do is
Speaker 1: I will choose like the cheap option, but then I
Speaker 1: end up tipping really well, Okay, And like, for that
Speaker 1: same amount of money, I could have gone to like
Speaker 1: a very dull middle road restaurant, but instead I get
Speaker 1: to go and get something amazing that I make sure
Speaker 1: that I'm tipping well. Even though in Oregon nobody is
Speaker 1: allowed to get less than minimum wage, so even your
Speaker 1: waiters are getting the minimum wage. Oh that's cool, They're
Speaker 1: definitely getting taken care of it. I think so much
Speaker 1: of it does come down to the heart of why
Speaker 1: you do something right, and so if you are because
Speaker 1: I think so much of cheap being cheap is it's
Speaker 1: like an attitude, and think what one person's cheap can
Speaker 1: be somebody else's frugal. And it kind of depends on
Speaker 1: how you approach it. But do you have any any
Speaker 1: other examples of some ways that maybe folks have either
Speaker 1: made fun of you or that in your own opinion,
Speaker 1: that I would be considered what are the worst things?
Speaker 1: But just like I guess more extreme examples of frugality.
Speaker 1: Obviously you're you're looking at things on the side of
Speaker 1: the road. I love that. But yeah, I'm curious if
Speaker 1: you have any other examples. Um I I love a
Speaker 1: good roadside find. We're not talking road kill for dinner
Speaker 1: or anything like that, right, probably? Not? Okay? Not? No.
Speaker 1: I can make that five dollar Costco chicken stretch for
Speaker 1: many meals. I don't need to be going for possum. No.
Speaker 1: Um I some I recently found a Filson brand like
Speaker 1: nit wool knit cap like in the streets, soggy embedded
Speaker 1: with like oil and leaves and stuff. It was not
Speaker 1: recently dropped so I brought it home, I washed it,
Speaker 1: I sweat or shaved it. I put it up on
Speaker 1: eBay and I sold it for forty bucks. So I
Speaker 1: mean there's stuff. But back to cheap. I actually want
Speaker 1: to defend cheap. I know the word cheap and the
Speaker 1: idea of cheap gets a very bad rap. But what
Speaker 1: can happen a lot of times is that people do
Speaker 1: not want to be perceived is cheap with family, with friends,
Speaker 1: and what they'll do is they will spend beyond their
Speaker 1: means in order to not be viewed as being cheap.
Speaker 1: And in that way, I think demonizing the word can
Speaker 1: do disservice to people. I think that's a good point.
Speaker 1: I think people feel uncomfortable, they don't want to be
Speaker 1: classified in that way, and so you're you're right, they
Speaker 1: probably end up spending in ways they get them in
Speaker 1: trouble when they should probably be just a little more
Speaker 1: comfortable wearing that moniker and not feeling as self conscious
Speaker 1: about it. Admitting you're on a limited budget, finding ways
Speaker 1: to do what you want and do so enjoyably on
Speaker 1: like no money or next to no money is a
Speaker 1: creative challenge, and I find that enjoyable and I try
Speaker 1: and help other people find that enjoyable and there is
Speaker 1: no shame in that. And people you know, embarrassed by
Speaker 1: the car they drive, even if they have a perfectly
Speaker 1: functional car, ye and getting something they can afford because
Speaker 1: they don't want to look cheap. Yeah, I know you're
Speaker 1: spot on, and I think we should be less. I
Speaker 1: don't know. It just makes me think about I've driven
Speaker 1: kind of quote unquote beaters for kind of most of
Speaker 1: my whole whole life, even into adulthood. Our only cars
Speaker 1: a two thousand and six Hondo Odyssey and it's powder blue.
Speaker 1: It's not terribly attractive, and I know, you know, some
Speaker 1: people might look and they might judge or something, But
Speaker 1: I guess part of it is just kind of a
Speaker 1: comfort level in your own skin and with the choices
Speaker 1: that you're making, and saying like, that's just not something
Speaker 1: we prioritize, even though a lot of other people do.
Speaker 1: But I think for some people, you're right, it's not
Speaker 1: that they prioritize it, but it's just that they feel
Speaker 1: compelled to follow the crowd and to do kind of
Speaker 1: what other people are doing, even if it puts them
Speaker 1: in like a precarious financial position. Yeah, yeah, Katie Joel said,
Speaker 1: being comfortable in your own skin, So essentially kind of
Speaker 1: comes down, I think to the individual, like, do you
Speaker 1: have any advice or any tips to help people to
Speaker 1: be comfortable with the decisions that they're making, sometimes out
Speaker 1: of necessity or sometimes they're making these decisions out of
Speaker 1: just a desire to be frugal, a desire to save
Speaker 1: for other financial goals that they might have. But I
Speaker 1: don't know, have you ever talked with folks who find
Speaker 1: themselves in a situation where they really feel uncomfortable being
Speaker 1: in that position? Do you have any advice for them?
Speaker 1: That's a hard one because it is so individual. I mean,
Speaker 1: it kind of boils down to contemptedness. Can you be
Speaker 1: you know, if you are a content person with who
Speaker 1: you are and the belongings that you have and the
Speaker 1: person your sense of self that you present out into
Speaker 1: the world, Madison Avenue can't touch you. Yeah. You being
Speaker 1: solid with yourself means that you are not as like
Speaker 1: open to thinking that this purchase is going to make
Speaker 1: your life better. And granted, there are purchases that can
Speaker 1: make your life better, but it shouldn't be motivated by
Speaker 1: feeling bad about yourself. Yeah, and that's a hard one,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if that really does answer your question.
Speaker 1: I used to work until a few years ago as
Speaker 1: a labored delivery nurse. I worked for twenty four years
Speaker 1: at a high risk unit, and so I had many, many,
Speaker 1: many co workers, all of them women. All the nurses
Speaker 1: were women there, and we had, you know, countless in
Speaker 1: depth conversations. You really get to know one another. And
Speaker 1: so many women that I was that I worked with,
Speaker 1: they were working full time, they had little kids, they
Speaker 1: were often or usually married to someone who had a
Speaker 1: good income, and they're still living paycheck to paycheck. And
Speaker 1: it was Disneyland every year, it was new cars, it
Speaker 1: was it was keeping up with the Joneses. And I
Speaker 1: wasn't there to judge, and I wasn't there telling people
Speaker 1: what they're doing wrong. Nobody likes that person. Nobody wants
Speaker 1: unsolicited advice in this world. But I certainly saw that.
Speaker 1: I saw people comforting their unhappiness or their stress with purchases.
Speaker 1: And it's hard to see. And it doesn't mean you're
Speaker 1: like a bad person if you do that, by any means.
Speaker 1: We've all been there where you need to cheer yourself up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there's room times it can have really big picture
Speaker 1: consequences that you're not like figuring out what your big
Speaker 1: picture goals are. Yeah, for sure. All right. I want
Speaker 1: to talk about selling things because we talked about donating
Speaker 1: things just before the break. But you say that a
Speaker 1: lot of folks who like, they throw things out that
Speaker 1: they could turn into cash, and so like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: And it feels like you're hunting for use things all
Speaker 1: the time at the thrift store on the side of
Speaker 1: the road, and then you're turning around and you're selling
Speaker 1: those items that one man's trash is another man's treasure.
Speaker 1: That's saying I feel like you kind of personify that.
Speaker 1: So talk to me about how you're finding stuff, how
Speaker 1: you're thinking about kind of resale when it comes to
Speaker 1: things that you're getting rid of or things that you're
Speaker 1: finding to just turn a profit on. Yes, I do thrifting.
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it all the time, just four days
Speaker 1: a week, that's all. I swear. I fell you on Instagram.
Speaker 1: I see you at your goodwill all the time. And
Speaker 1: then you're buying stuff and you're selling it on eBay
Speaker 1: and you're making a lot of money. True, I am
Speaker 1: doing that. Just last week, I got a couple of
Speaker 1: bar stools and they just kind of stood out as
Speaker 1: quality items when I saw them, and I give them
Speaker 1: a little shake tests to make sure they're a sturdy
Speaker 1: i'd bottom for and I sold the pair for one
Speaker 1: seventy five and I did that Facebook marketplace. There's not
Speaker 1: a single answer to that. One thing that I've enjoyed
Speaker 1: doing is there are a couple of like wealthy neighborhoods
Speaker 1: here in Portland and they have like a garage sale
Speaker 1: day and what I'll do is I'll drive my two
Speaker 1: thousand and five Honda any Van. Make me feel bad.
Speaker 1: You're competitive now at the end of the day, where
Speaker 1: everybody just like puts their stuff like at the curb
Speaker 1: with like a free sign. And I have found boxes
Speaker 1: of books that I can take two Powells, which is
Speaker 1: a bookstore here in Portland, and they'll give you money
Speaker 1: for them. I've found like Yakima rack systems that I'll
Speaker 1: take to a store in town that buys used bike racks.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's just many ways to do that. It's
Speaker 1: interesting though, because you don't want to be a hoarder,
Speaker 1: and I'm certainly not I don't know if you can
Speaker 1: hear the echo in this room. I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: that by any means, but I am very deliberate with
Speaker 1: the things that I do bring home. I'll check the
Speaker 1: eBay app to see completed listings to see if something
Speaker 1: is selling well. Ideally, if I am selling stuff, I
Speaker 1: want to make it least thirty usually fifty bucks on it. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to make ten dollars here and there.
Speaker 1: That's just kind of like finicky work. Although you know
Speaker 1: I love ten dollars. I've never turned that down. But
Speaker 1: for my efforts and for the stuff that I am
Speaker 1: bringing into my home, I try to do that. So
Speaker 1: it sounds like it sounds like what you're saying is
Speaker 1: you value your time and at some point you're not
Speaker 1: going to go through Like, so, how do you think
Speaker 1: about that too when it comes to like your hourly rate,
Speaker 1: or how you think about how much time and effort
Speaker 1: you put into flipping something in order to turn a profit.
Speaker 1: I will clean something up, but I don't want to
Speaker 1: be repairing the stuff that I am selling. Gotcha, that's
Speaker 1: a slippery slope to like setting it aside, and then
Speaker 1: you just kind of never do it. I try to
Speaker 1: make fifty bucks if I'm selling something, and then that
Speaker 1: way it's just kind of worth my time, even though
Speaker 1: I am retired. I guess regardless if you're retired or not,
Speaker 1: for you, you've got a standard, you've got a bar
Speaker 1: that you're not willing to go below. But I think
Speaker 1: that's the biggest problem is that folks are saying that
Speaker 1: they don't have the time. I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of folks who might be hearing you talk and they're
Speaker 1: saying this is I can totally get behind this. I
Speaker 1: don't have the time to do all of this. What
Speaker 1: advice do you have for those folks who like the mission,
Speaker 1: they like the idea of reusing things, but they're saying
Speaker 1: they don't have the time. What are your thoughts there? Oh?
Speaker 1: I feel for those people because I have been there,
Speaker 1: as you know, mom of little kids, working full time
Speaker 1: nights as a nurse. You know, time was not something
Speaker 1: that I enjoyed a plethora of. I guess it's about
Speaker 1: being strategic with what is important. Buying less stuff is
Speaker 1: a way that you can save money. It's very easy
Speaker 1: when you have kids. You just love them to pieces
Speaker 1: and you want to get them absolutely everything. But I mean,
Speaker 1: studies have shown that having less stuff actually helps your
Speaker 1: kids focus more, helps them kind of appreciate the things
Speaker 1: that they do have, and to do more kind of
Speaker 1: focused play than a room that is like filled with
Speaker 1: like everything that Toys, r Us throughout or whoever Amazon.
Speaker 1: I guess at this point, well, we all have seen
Speaker 1: our kids end up playing with the boxes or the
Speaker 1: bots and pains or stuff like that too. That happens,
Speaker 1: and you're just like, what happened to the one hundred
Speaker 1: dollars Barbie Dreamhouse that we got you? Why don't you
Speaker 1: playing with that like that? That that's kind of a
Speaker 1: common refraine here from parents too. Yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 1: it's being a parent is just the hardest thing, especially
Speaker 1: now in the digital age, where you know that that
Speaker 1: Barbie Dreamhouse is competing with a screen. You know, I
Speaker 1: was luckier that my kids are older, I didn't really
Speaker 1: have that issue. But I mean, when you don't have
Speaker 1: the time, you just choose what is important to you,
Speaker 1: and if that is saving money, or if that is
Speaker 1: just having like a simpler life or having like less
Speaker 1: clutter in your home, just you know, maybe find like
Speaker 1: minded people My Facebook group for the Non Consumer Advocate
Speaker 1: has more than eighty thousand people in it, and if
Speaker 1: you need inspiration or if you need a question answered,
Speaker 1: it is a really good place to come. Yeah, do
Speaker 1: you feel like there's overlap between the minimalism movement and
Speaker 1: the non consumer movement? Are those similar or are those like? Yeah,
Speaker 1: just I guess I'm curious how much, Like if we're
Speaker 1: talking vinn diagrams, like we're discussing earlier, how much how
Speaker 1: much overlap is there between those two? There is absolutely overlap.
Speaker 1: Having too much stuff, I mean everything you have in
Speaker 1: your home, unless you know your garbage picking, is stuff
Speaker 1: that you paid for. It is money that you spent.
Speaker 1: And a lot of times people hold onto that stuff
Speaker 1: because there's that sunk cost where they're like, well, I
Speaker 1: paid good money for that. Yes I don't like it,
Speaker 1: but you know I'm going to hold onto it because
Speaker 1: you don't want to admit that, you know, the mistake
Speaker 1: that you made. But having less stuff, having a less
Speaker 1: cluttered home is something that a lot of people want.
Speaker 1: It's easier to have friends over, to have house guests.
Speaker 1: Having a cluttered home or feeling like you do not
Speaker 1: have like a home that you can welcome people into
Speaker 1: is a very isolating thing for a lot of people.
Speaker 1: With the Internet and social media, we see a curated
Speaker 1: vision of how other people are living, and it makes
Speaker 1: people feel bad about their own messy lives. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: essentially what you're getting at is like the sunk cost fallacy,
Speaker 1: the desire for folks to not want to admit that
Speaker 1: they're wrong. Essentially, and when presented with new data, with
Speaker 1: new facts, sometimes we have to be like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: going to change my mind. Oh I don't actually need
Speaker 1: this thing in my life, and if that means I
Speaker 1: have to take a loss in order to get rid
Speaker 1: of it. Sometimes we have to let go over egos,
Speaker 1: which I think that might be what you're speaking to
Speaker 1: a little bit here. It is emotionally painful to let go.
Speaker 1: It is, it is, But the more you do it,
Speaker 1: the more you acclimate yourself to like, yeah, I felt
Speaker 1: bad about getting rid of those boots that you know,
Speaker 1: we're always so uncomfortable. You can get rid of them
Speaker 1: and you do survive that process. Yeah, that's true. All right,
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you to something super practical.
Speaker 1: Matt and I we just did a whole episode about
Speaker 1: butchering your grocery bill and you I've like followed your
Speaker 1: grocery buying routine. You call it disjointed, but because you
Speaker 1: drive to a bunch of different places to get the
Speaker 1: best price on each item. So I am curious to know.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's a little different than what my grocery
Speaker 1: routine looks like. Well, what's the Katie Woke Stanley approach
Speaker 1: to buying food without spending too much money? I do
Speaker 1: buy different grocery items from different places. And that sounds
Speaker 1: like just if you just look at that for face value,
Speaker 1: that it would be a lot of time and a
Speaker 1: pain in the tuchus. But in fact, it really isn't
Speaker 1: because I work it into like the routine of like
Speaker 1: what is already happening. I'm not spending like twelve hours
Speaker 1: a day going to different grocery stores. But like, we
Speaker 1: go through a lot of bananas here and Trader Joe's
Speaker 1: it must be a lost leader. They saw him for
Speaker 1: nineteen cents a piece, which means you can choose the
Speaker 1: big ones. Yeah, do that on my way to the store.
Speaker 1: That's a grocery liquidator here in Portland, Oregon. And I
Speaker 1: call it the dented vegetable store. But they always have
Speaker 1: like those great big packs of like organic mixed screens
Speaker 1: that are like six seven dollars. At least in the
Speaker 1: store they have them for two bucks nice sometimes one
Speaker 1: dollar they'll have so I'll go there. I can't get
Speaker 1: all of my stuff there, but I have walked in
Speaker 1: and ended up walking out with like a flat of
Speaker 1: strawberries for two dollars. But it's one of those things
Speaker 1: like you'd better be ready to make jam that day.
Speaker 1: Ye get me two days out of these with you know,
Speaker 1: which just means you have to be ready to be
Speaker 1: resourceful with the things that you're buying. And I think
Speaker 1: that's great, And I think that is is because of
Speaker 1: our like on demand society, constantly connected to technology, It's
Speaker 1: it's harder to be a resourceful person. We have to
Speaker 1: kind of like build that up in ourselves because it
Speaker 1: just doesn't come naturally. So I love kind of you're
Speaker 1: you're pushing us in that kind of into that realm.
Speaker 1: But we've got a couple more questions we're going to
Speaker 1: get to you with you, Katie. I specifically want to
Speaker 1: talk about the do without part of your moniker and
Speaker 1: like how you know when you should just do without,
Speaker 1: because that is something that we're not great at in
Speaker 1: our society. So we'll get some questions on that and
Speaker 1: more right after this. All right, we are still talking
Speaker 1: with Kennie will Stanley just about some of the different
Speaker 1: ways we can all implement some frugalness into our lives.
Speaker 1: And Katie, you know you touched on this in the
Speaker 1: last section. We were kind of talking about finding that
Speaker 1: balance between time and money essentially, and for folks recommended.
Speaker 1: What you said is that for folks maybe who have
Speaker 1: less time, one of the things that we can do
Speaker 1: is to just generally speak, we can buy less, right,
Speaker 1: because that's something essentially that we can all remove when
Speaker 1: stuff you don't have to make as much money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and nor does it take any time to not buy something.
Speaker 1: You go out to flip something you know on eBay
Speaker 1: or like all that takes some time, It takes being resourceful,
Speaker 1: but actually not buying something that it's a it's the absence,
Speaker 1: it's the absence of time. A good example for that
Speaker 1: is I don't know if you know who amy decision is.
Speaker 1: She wrote the tight Wad Gazette, And that's like an
Speaker 1: old school thing back in the archives here. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: she wrote in one of her books that she did
Speaker 1: a lot of interviews and a lot of she was
Speaker 1: filmed for, you know, a lot of TV segments, and
Speaker 1: they always wanted to see her actively doing something that
Speaker 1: would save her money. And she said the thing that
Speaker 1: she wanted to do was to the kids up in
Speaker 1: the car and drive past like McDonald's and just show
Speaker 1: that she wasn't going there. Yeah, but that doesn't make
Speaker 1: like a gripping visual image here, I am. That's so
Speaker 1: true though, Yeah, I mean that, like, that's what you're
Speaker 1: talking about. That Like essentially that's the do without part
Speaker 1: of your motto. And I mean just generally speaking as
Speaker 1: a society, like self self deprivation. It's not something that
Speaker 1: we're that we're great at, but it is obviously one
Speaker 1: of yours. You know, that's not an easy message to sell, No, right,
Speaker 1: it's not sexy. You can't market it. Like what advertiser
Speaker 1: is going to get behind you if you're going to
Speaker 1: say to what you should really be doing is just
Speaker 1: generally speaking, buy less stuff. But what I would love
Speaker 1: to hear from you, though, what are some purchases that
Speaker 1: folks maybe make occasionally or routinely either way, but that
Speaker 1: they're making that you think folks maybe should consider for
Speaker 1: going altogether. That that's not an easy answer. That's a
Speaker 1: hard one because it's so individualized. Like for you too,
Speaker 1: spending money on craft beer is absolutely worth it to you,
Speaker 1: that brings you pleasure, their satisfaction in that. To me,
Speaker 1: I don't really like to drink, and so to me
Speaker 1: that would be an absolute waste of money. I'd sooner
Speaker 1: throw it like down the sync as I would to
Speaker 1: drink it. I know, blasphemy here, Yes, yes you would,
Speaker 1: you would donate it. This is the last time you'll
Speaker 1: be on the show, by the way, better what this work?
Speaker 1: You know, that's a hard one. For some family, like
Speaker 1: doing international travel is a priority for them to expose
Speaker 1: themselves and their children to different cultures in the world,
Speaker 1: and for them, they're going to make sacrifices in their
Speaker 1: everyday life that make that possible. And for somebody else,
Speaker 1: perhaps who's more of a homebody, like doing the things
Speaker 1: that give them comfort in the home means they do
Speaker 1: not have that money to internationally travel, but they you know,
Speaker 1: that's not what they want anyway. I really think that
Speaker 1: people think that living below your means it equates to deprivation,
Speaker 1: and that's absolutely not true. I mean it's hard to
Speaker 1: you know, look at the numbers. It's an unpaid it's
Speaker 1: like a painful thing to do. All right, this is
Speaker 1: the money we have coming in, This is the money
Speaker 1: that we have going out. What is you know, how
Speaker 1: much do we have? It's looking at that, looking at
Speaker 1: the hard numbers and that look in the mirror to
Speaker 1: see like what money do you have and what is
Speaker 1: it that you value? Is it savings? Is it college
Speaker 1: funds for your kids? Is it travel? Is it helping
Speaker 1: family members who maybe need that help you know they're
Speaker 1: at a stage of life. Yeah, well no, I think
Speaker 1: that's that's so true, and I appreciate that that approach.
Speaker 1: I mean, what I'm hearing is that you're not a hater,
Speaker 1: which I mean that's that's where we tend to fall.
Speaker 1: Because if it's something that's important to you, I think
Speaker 1: you can almost justify any expense out there, if your
Speaker 1: heart is in the right place, if it's something that
Speaker 1: you value a few and if yeah, exactly if you've
Speaker 1: planned for it. It It problem is mostly get on credit.
Speaker 1: I haven't planned for it, and so we're just spending
Speaker 1: like everyone else around us, and we haven't done the
Speaker 1: deep work to really think about what does move the
Speaker 1: need on our lives so that we can really spend
Speaker 1: intentionally there and then start to curb spending in other
Speaker 1: areas that maybe just weren't. You're providing much bang for
Speaker 1: the buck, like even something as simple as going to
Speaker 1: get a haircut like every six or eight weeks or
Speaker 1: something like that. Think about how that kind of money
Speaker 1: adds up. I'm guessing, Katie, you don't pay someone else
Speaker 1: to cut your hair, right? Um? Well, I used to,
Speaker 1: and I think I've heard that you do this also
Speaker 1: Joel the Supercuts training center. Yes, I used That's how
Speaker 1: I would get my hair cut, and I would like
Speaker 1: badger the kids to get their haircut that way as well.
Speaker 1: Free haircuts for trainees. And again you get the free
Speaker 1: haircut and then you tip. Ye, and so yes, you're
Speaker 1: spending five dollars, but they're not used to getting a
Speaker 1: tip at all, and so they're always really happy to
Speaker 1: get that. Do you tip them before they start cutting
Speaker 1: your hair? That way they try a little extra is
Speaker 1: a good tip, but no. But the thing is that
Speaker 1: that my one, it seems to have gone dormant. I
Speaker 1: can't figure it out. But I did get a cupon
Speaker 1: for like Great Clips for ten ninety nine. So I
Speaker 1: went in and I did that, and again, I you know,
Speaker 1: I tipped, well, I tipped not based on a ten
Speaker 1: ninety nine hair cutting. Yeah, and I also very infrequently
Speaker 1: get my hair cut. I let it get long and straggly,
Speaker 1: and they chatted off. Again. That's that's my current approach. Yes,
Speaker 1: so I've got my own hair since I was in
Speaker 1: middle school, Katie, and since the pandemic started. I was
Speaker 1: one of those that was like, all right, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do the long hair thing and we'll see how much
Speaker 1: longer it lasts. It's getting a little unruly, getting close
Speaker 1: to his touch. It's true, well on it, I almost can.
Speaker 1: It's that's getting getting problematic, Katie. You mentioned your kids
Speaker 1: right like you were trying to get them to also
Speaker 1: attend the Great Clips. But I know that you're essentially
Speaker 1: you're an empty nester for now. Essentially they stopped by
Speaker 1: to look in the fridge, very free to hang out.
Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, and you've got your husband
Speaker 1: when y'all like, did it ever cause problems? I guess
Speaker 1: like your your frugal tendencies. Did it ever cause any
Speaker 1: family strife as you're trying to take the thermostat down,
Speaker 1: make it a little bit colder, or if you are
Speaker 1: just all the different ways that you're trying to save money,
Speaker 1: I'm curious when you sell everyone's pants, is that ruining
Speaker 1: family relationships or anything? How did you avoid that conflict?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that it has ever caused strife, as
Speaker 1: that is you know, a strong word to use. I
Speaker 1: would say more that you know, no teenager ever wants
Speaker 1: to be told no. And so whether or not you
Speaker 1: are somebody who does traditional shopping where you're gonna take
Speaker 1: the kids to them all, you're gonna go to Target whatever,
Speaker 1: I mean, all kids here? No. And my kids were
Speaker 1: used to me. They know me, and I was always
Speaker 1: saying like, you know, hey, we can go to Goodwill
Speaker 1: first and see if they have what you want. And
Speaker 1: you know, maybe they were rumpy times, but they knew
Speaker 1: that they would get a yes at Goodwill. And it
Speaker 1: doesn't take too many times of thinking like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: not getting what I want and then you end up
Speaker 1: finding something that's so expensive if you had bought it new,
Speaker 1: and yet somehow you got it for five dollars that
Speaker 1: you know it turns things around. So do you feel
Speaker 1: like your kids have kind of followed suit? Do they
Speaker 1: live a similar lifestyle to the way you kind of
Speaker 1: raise them how they come around? Yes. No, I am
Speaker 1: not here to force my ways on other people, even
Speaker 1: my own children, and I don't believe anything good comes
Speaker 1: from port forcing your point of view on other people.
Speaker 1: They both will go to Goodwill for stuff or you know,
Speaker 1: they'll ask me if I can check on the buy
Speaker 1: nothing group to see if somebody has a such and such,
Speaker 1: but they mostly just kind of don't buy a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff. Okay, one does have a credit card in
Speaker 1: order to build her credit rating, but neither of them
Speaker 1: have any credit debt. We were able to pay for
Speaker 1: them to go to college just out of pocket through
Speaker 1: our extreme frugality, so we've set them up for a
Speaker 1: really good adult life. They're not starting with one hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in debt, which I just feel so bad
Speaker 1: for people who do not have a choice about that,
Speaker 1: And they know that they're lucky because their friends are
Speaker 1: not in that same situation. They're able to take jobs
Speaker 1: that maybe can build to like better jobs and in
Speaker 1: terms of career wise because they can live on seventeen
Speaker 1: dollars an hour. Well, I love I mean, I love
Speaker 1: your mission, Katie. I love you've been at in a
Speaker 1: long time now, through the Facebook group, your Instagram, through
Speaker 1: your blog, just really teaching people about how to just
Speaker 1: think about purchases and really life differently than kind of
Speaker 1: our modern conception of it, which I really appreciate. It
Speaker 1: really fits with the vibe of what Matt and I
Speaker 1: are trying to do over here at how to Money.
Speaker 1: So how can our listeners find out more about you
Speaker 1: and what you're up to. Well, I blog at the
Speaker 1: Non Consumer Advocate dot com. For years, I blog seven
Speaker 1: days a week. I have doubt that back a bit,
Speaker 1: and I put up a fresh blog post every Monday
Speaker 1: and then sometimes the second one during the week. I
Speaker 1: am on Instagram as the non Consumer Advocate or maybe
Speaker 1: non consumer you'd think. I know, we'll link to them
Speaker 1: in the show notes so everybody can find them quick.
Speaker 1: I have a Facebook group and that has the Non
Speaker 1: Consumer Advocate. Thank you so much for having me on,
Speaker 1: and I hopefully was able to get the message across
Speaker 1: that non consumerism isn't about being deprived. It's about saving money,
Speaker 1: it's about doing that in a way that looks at
Speaker 1: like the environmental impact of our purchases, and hopefully people
Speaker 1: will respond to that. And I appreciate you having me on, Katie.
Speaker 1: Always glad to have you, great to chat. Thanks so
Speaker 1: much for coming on. We'll talk to you soon, all right,
Speaker 1: Thank you Joel Man. What a great conversation we had
Speaker 1: with especially about Okay, So first, this is my big takeaway,
Speaker 1: but I love that Katie wanted to provide her her
Speaker 1: two cents on the third option. Right, It's not just
Speaker 1: being frugal or being cheap. There's a way that you
Speaker 1: can be cheap in most people's books, right, Like, according
Speaker 1: to most people, they're going to say that, man, you're
Speaker 1: you're taking you're taking the cheap option here. But to you,
Speaker 1: you're being frugal. To you, you're being the non consumer.
Speaker 1: Then really, yeah, you're just opting out of the game
Speaker 1: that everyone else is playing, which I think is kind
Speaker 1: of Katie's main message to say, like it's not just
Speaker 1: frugal or cheap, it's like you can just check out
Speaker 1: of kind of the normal path that most people take
Speaker 1: through society, which is just to consume a lot more
Speaker 1: than they need to. And she talked about that at
Speaker 1: the very end, how that can be for environmental reasons,
Speaker 1: but it can be for money saving reasons, and it
Speaker 1: can She's you know, she even talked about how she
Speaker 1: was able to basically set her kids up for a
Speaker 1: much better future because she took a different path too exactly,
Speaker 1: And I think what she said is also true that
Speaker 1: it oftentimes can be because of the pressures of other people,
Speaker 1: like you don't want to be perceived as being cheap,
Speaker 1: and because of that, it's they're just a lot more
Speaker 1: consumption that's taken place. But what was your your big
Speaker 1: takeaway aside from that, Aside from the froo versus cheap conversation,
Speaker 1: what is your big takeaway from our conversation today with Katie?
Speaker 1: You know, so tough to pick one thing, but when
Speaker 1: she said that it all boils down to contentedness and
Speaker 1: that if you are content with what you have and
Speaker 1: with who you are, Madison Avenue can't touch you. And
Speaker 1: I think oftentimes we are trying to fill a void
Speaker 1: with kind of through consumerism, and we realize, or typically
Speaker 1: actually don't realize that we're not making much of a dent,
Speaker 1: you know, in that void by buying things, and so
Speaker 1: we kind of continue to try and it just never works, right.
Speaker 1: And so I think that's a big part of kind
Speaker 1: of what's going on, is that contentedness isn't terribly easy
Speaker 1: to come by, and a lot of people are looking
Speaker 1: to purchases to buy their happiness and it just it
Speaker 1: doesn't work. And so I think, you know, we could
Speaker 1: talk about all the strategies until we're blue in the face,
Speaker 1: but if you can't find ways to be happy with
Speaker 1: what you have and be happy with less, it's it's
Speaker 1: going to be really hard I think for Katie's message
Speaker 1: to be applicable to you. Very true. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: so since you went with like a twenty thousand foot
Speaker 1: level particularly, i'll i'll dive into the granular. I'll maybe
Speaker 1: some more than nuts and bolts. And specifically, when she
Speaker 1: was talking about what she is willing to essentially flip
Speaker 1: and sell on eBay or Facebook marketplace, that first of all,
Speaker 1: she's just looking to make at least fifty bucks. Yeah, essentially,
Speaker 1: like she's not going to do something for just ten
Speaker 1: dollars for her, that's not worth her time. But one
Speaker 1: of the other things she pointed out is that she
Speaker 1: is not going to take something on that she has
Speaker 1: to fix. I like that because I think that can
Speaker 1: also be a good rule of thumb for folks who
Speaker 1: are out there and they're thinking, oh, like, I'm pretty
Speaker 1: good at thrifting, like I can spot a good deal,
Speaker 1: or or maybe hey, i'm pretty good with a barkeeper's
Speaker 1: friend and I know how to shine this thing up.
Speaker 1: And so I think, if this is maybe a tactic
Speaker 1: and approach that you're thinking about doing making some additional
Speaker 1: money by selling things on eBay or Facebook, don't look
Speaker 1: at the different things that need fixing, because I think
Speaker 1: that's when you might end up being and turning into
Speaker 1: a hoarder, right because kids, just like I'm not a hoarder.
Speaker 1: She moves things pretty quickly, saying, twenty six projects in
Speaker 1: your garage. You know it need to be more. That's
Speaker 1: what you That's probably what you don't want to turn into. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so I thought that was a good little nugget
Speaker 1: that she's not looking necessarily to fix things, but she
Speaker 1: will bring them in, washing them, get them cleaned up,
Speaker 1: and then quickly turn them around for a profit. Ye.
Speaker 1: But keep that in mind if if you're also looking
Speaker 1: to make something after change on the side. I think
Speaker 1: it was last year that we did to Sell Your
Speaker 1: Stuff challenge and a lot of listeners decided they were
Speaker 1: going to try to sell fifty two things, one thing
Speaker 1: a week and see how much money that can make them.
Speaker 1: And so it is one of those things where you
Speaker 1: could even look to pick up free things or buy
Speaker 1: additional things that you know you can turn for a
Speaker 1: profit and add those and trying to sell fifty two
Speaker 1: things this year in addition to you just kind of
Speaker 1: the things that you want to declutter or get rid
Speaker 1: of from your own home. But and then it's just
Speaker 1: that last thing keeping those tax receipts. Who knows how
Speaker 1: much that's going to save you on taxes when it
Speaker 1: comes comes tax time from the stuff you're donating when
Speaker 1: you take it to goodwill. But Matt, let's get back
Speaker 1: to the beer that we had on this episode. This
Speaker 1: was Cloudscape IPA by Newpark Brewing or your thoughts on
Speaker 1: this one. Yeah, first, a big thank you to Matthew.
Speaker 1: Thank you for doating this one as well as the
Speaker 1: other New Park brewis that we've had here on the show.
Speaker 1: I assume this is the single IPA version of we
Speaker 1: had a double It was it last week or a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, but it was it double cloud
Speaker 1: or I think so yeah, so very similar, vibe, very similar, fantastic.
Speaker 1: Certainly drank more like a single I guess, not a
Speaker 1: double but a single IPA, but which just means like
Speaker 1: less robust, less intense, but still a little easier to drink,
Speaker 1: packing a lot of flavor drinks more like a hoppy,
Speaker 1: pale ale, but fantastic it. I mean it had all
Speaker 1: of the qualities that you're looking forward to New England
Speaker 1: hazy IPA, juicy, so it had a fair amount of
Speaker 1: sugars going on, but not too sweet where it felt
Speaker 1: like it was just getting weighed down. And it had
Speaker 1: that nice kind of fresh crispness that you get from
Speaker 1: this hops. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. Yeah do you
Speaker 1: like it? Yeah? Yeah, I like you said, crisp. It
Speaker 1: had like a crispness to it, which usually is a
Speaker 1: word or a description reserve for like pilzers and loggers
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But this was like I had
Speaker 1: a kind of like a chrispypa, which I thought was
Speaker 1: a nice little combo. It was definitely hoppy, definitely juicy,
Speaker 1: but had that crispness to it at the end, which
Speaker 1: I thought kind of nice finish on that on this beer.
Speaker 1: For sure, it was fantastic. Thanks, Matthew, appreciate it. Man
Speaker 1: and matt that's going to do it for this episode.
Speaker 1: We'll have links up to all of Katie's resources up
Speaker 1: in the show notes up on our website at how
Speaker 1: to money dot com. All right, buddy, So until next time,
Speaker 1: best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.