WEBVTT - That's A Shame! 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:12.800 Welcome to Jay dot M, a production of I Heart Radio. Hello, Hi, 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:17.040 how are you? I hope you're so good? Oh man, 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:19.800 I hope you're so good. Welcome to Jay dot Ill 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:25.080 the podcast. I'm here with you know who lies? St? Clair? Hello? 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:28.080 I don't know I thought Rihanna when you said that 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.800 for him. Sorry, I'm not mad, you know I know Rihanna? Yeah, 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:36.320 I mean who don't. I don't know them at your 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:41.320 greative thing. Gonna give a hello, Hi, y'all. That is 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:46.440 fair enough. Yea, here is the here's a question. I 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:50.440 know would being like jolly and that is good. That's 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:55.319 good that we have the giggles. Yo. I had a 0:00:55.360 --> 0:01:01.000 friend who is dealing with a terrible accident. I know. 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:04.560 This is so like the transition, my friends, is not good. 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:09.560 That's how life is. Sometimes. Sometimes you're like chilling and 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:13.240 and just gliding along, and then something major happens and 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:18.000 it shakes your ship up so strong that you don't 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:24.160 know how to move forward. They were in an accident, 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:32.759 and in a car accident, and someone died from that accident. Jeez, 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:36.679 that's big. That's like such a big thing. The loss obviously, 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:42.920 the loss of life so major, and the shame that 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:47.000 came along with that. They didn't, you know, have to 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:51.120 do any jail time or you know, it was an accident. 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:56.480 Nobody was drunk, nobody was high, nobody, you know, it 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:02.280 was an accident, like accidents happened. Like, how how do 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:06.840 you deal with the shame? That's a heavy one. How 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:09.679 do you deal with shame? Yeah, that was pretty heavy. 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:12.720 I don't know if I thought immediately about something like that, 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:16.520 but that is that's intense. That's a therapy. Is how 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:19.360 you deal with that? Change sounds and that one. That 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:21.840 one was pretty heavy, And the only way I could 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:24.720 think about it is that you know, when you have 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.520 a baby and you have little kids and stuff, anything 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:31.160 happened to your kids? When I think about shame, that's 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.239 I hate to say. That's like immediately where my head 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:40.920 goes is mom guilt and mom shame if anything happens 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.160 physically to your kids. Like I even saw this on TikTok. 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.360 A girl said, I raised the whole kid while I 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:49.239 was in school, except for that one time she rolled 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.560 off the bed and I laughed at it, but I 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.359 thought her needing to say that that baby rolled off 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.000 the bed like that means that's sat in the back 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:00.720 of her mind. You know what I'm saying. It's like 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:02.680 the first piece of shame for most mothers, isn't it. 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:08.040 Like because Jen didn't roll off the bed, but I 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.200 tried to cut his little fingernails and got a little 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.080 piece of finger and man, I tell you the look 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.120 on his face. I can still see it. I can 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:21.160 still see that look, like you hurt me. And I 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.760 certainly didn't mean to do that. But and and even 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.960 now he's twelve years old, he like, he was like, 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:30.840 I'll cut it myself. Mom. I'm like, how do you even? 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:36.320 He was an infant. They had a little paper nails, 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.840 you know, a little nothing. I sure enough cut that baby, 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:43.280 and I just feel so bad about it. Old puppy 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:45.600 cut him like he was a puppy that was hold 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:47.920 not all. And like, you know what I mean, Like 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:50.400 it's nothing I could do about that. I'm like, you 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:52.800 have to forgive me, Can you just forgive me? I 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:55.680 think that's a part of it. I think that asking 0:03:55.760 --> 0:04:00.480 for forgiveness, you know, is a part of it, whether 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:05.280 you're asking the person who you feel or they feel 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:07.880 you've done or you feel you've done wrong. Because that's 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:11.040 what it is if you let me look at this 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:15.960 definition here a shameful feeling arising from the consciousness of 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:23.880 something dishonorable, improper, ridiculous, done by oneself or another. So 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.400 many of those I got stuck in my head to 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:31.080 what to choose at all. The embarrassment of my show. 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:35.279 My embarrassment and shame goes back to being a child 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:39.240 and embarrassing my father when I met his childhood friend 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.360 Michael Peters, who was the choreographer for the Beata video 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.160 and dancing on the ceiling, and I said to him 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:48.960 as a six year old, when my father said that, 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.880 I said, but you can't dance better than Michael Jackson, 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.599 and you know poor. The greater part of fifteen years, 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:59.640 my father never let me forget that you embarrassed me 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.880 in front of my best friend. There was also the 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.000 shaming story of when I was younger and I was 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:07.760 in a museum, a black museum, and I saw a 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:11.279 black mask and it was so dark that it scared me, 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:14.840 and my black, andy, black ass mother was like, never 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:17.720 in your life, wire you'd be scared of a black image, 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.080 and beat me in that museum, and never let me 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.719 forget that you were scared of black people in that moment, 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.480 and that will never happen. Like I have many you 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:29.440 like I have many, many stories, many stories. I feel 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:33.000 like my shame, kind of my childhood shame is tied 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.599 into m M. I'm gonna go ahead and say it, 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:41.599 teenage sexuality better than white supremacy. Okay, you know it 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.120 wasn't white supremacy. But you know we'll get to it. 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:49.360 Don't work, you have time. But you know, I think 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:52.560 that I've been thinking about certain things that I did, 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:56.120 and I'm like, oh, I shouldn't did that or and 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:57.880 I mean, as much as I feel like free in 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.920 my body and self now, sometimes I do tap into 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.839 those feelings of being a young person and and and 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.960 and feeling like, dang, I made a stupid decision or 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:10.200 I shouldn't have done that, and one of my big 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.279 shames that I dont I dealt with as an adult. 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.000 I'm finally over it. For years, I had carried a 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:17.400 lot of shame for having not graduated from high school 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.480 and I got my g D, and I always used 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.600 to think that, you know, I would cringe when people 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:29.919 would say, oh, you're smart, and I would be like, wha, No, 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:33.919 I'm not you don't even know. I'm actually not just 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:38.200 becausema thing. That's why you would say no. Yeah, I mean, 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:42.919 it seems silly saying it, but I'm just trying to 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:45.640 be honest. You know. I had a lot of shame 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.279 around it. Most people that I knew went to college, 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:50.640 and then as I got older, I had friends who 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.719 had whole advanced degrees. I had pH d s, multiple 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:59.039 advanced degrees. So to me, it was like, I never 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.920 thought about the fact that I always felt like I 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.320 could intellectually talk to those people. That never occurred to 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.760 me in my mind that wait a minute, you think 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.200 you're so stupid, but these are people who you talk 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:15.720 about things too. You're the scarrow. You're the scarecrow, you 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.680 know what? And I'm glad you said that, because the 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.160 significant part of the Whiz for me was when Diana 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:24.920 Ross was sitting on the ground with Michael Jackson in 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.520 that part and she opens up the top of his 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:32.960 head and she goes garbage. He had put so much 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:37.000 garbage in his own mind about who he was that 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:41.240 he began to believe it, and so I identified with 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:45.400 the scarecrow. I definitely had a lot of um, what 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:49.520 is that thing where you, Uh, imposter syndrome. You know 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.960 a lot of that feeling I didn't belong in certain 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:57.160 rooms and didn't belong with certain people. Uh that somehow 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.760 or another, Why am I here? Why do I get 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:03.000 to be here? I felt that way about my talent before. 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.720 I felt that way as a mother. That has been 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.440 one of the biggest challenges of my adult life is 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:14.600 getting over the shame of feeling like I wasn't good 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:18.160 enough girl. Now and now you're talking about deep shame 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:21.520 deep No, I mean, I'm just I'm just gonna put 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:23.480 it out there. I feel like I feel like I'm 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:28.920 speaking to everybody's story. I think you are, because yeah, 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:36.640 I heard mine in there. That is my story more 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:49.400 real talk after the break. I was just thinking about 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:50.720 this the other day because I was like in my 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:53.400 friends one of my friends sleose, my DC friends, A 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.880 lot of them went to you know, more house and 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.080 spell men and stuff. And I never got married early 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:02.160 in life, and so I'm one of the few. I 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:04.839 am the only single I think female of our group. 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.080 And there is some interesting shame that you have to 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.280 deal with in that. But because I am now a 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.680 part of this conversation on Jdi Ill you know, constant 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.200 d programming and stuff, just understanding your place in the world. 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:19.520 But yes, fighting the shame that you have not been 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:23.840 chose or I always fight the shame like Y don't 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:27.240 know that. I fight the shame of like nobody asking it, 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:29.000 saying that want the rest of day life with you, 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:30.800 or the shame of that. You know, I have really 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:36.840 great parents that would make amazing grandparents. But the shame 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:40.160 is a powerful drug. It's almost as powerful as fear. 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:45.400 So it's tied to fear. It's married to fear because 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:47.679 it's like, what is it that you're afraid that people 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:51.120 will not give you? What is it that you think 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:54.080 you're not going to get and receive, you know, because 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.440 of this thing or this moment in your life, this 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:00.679 this this part of your existence. And I had to 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.280 kind of come to terms with that part too. One 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.840 of them was unfortunately, like and I've talked about my 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.319 dad a lot here. I love my father so much 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:12.320 and I want to respect him in the fact that 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:15.680 he's no longer here in the flesh. But you know, 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:19.280 my dad had some complicated, you know, things about his 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.680 life and may have been viewed as being a person 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.200 who couldn't get their ship together to a degree, and 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.319 so sometimes there were parts of me that felt like, oh, 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.200 this is just part of my DNA. I was just 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.640 built fucked up. And I mean, and I want to 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:36.200 take this moment, and I don't want to bum anybody out. 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:38.559 I want to take this moment because I know we're 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:40.400 going to get to a different place in this conversation 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:42.600 because all of us know better. But I want to 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:46.559 take this moment to actually voice the truth about how 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:50.280 deeply hurt and shameful I have felt in my life. 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:52.920 Because there are some women out there who do know 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:54.800 me from my work and no x Y and Z, 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:56.880 and they have a tendency to put me up on 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.120 this pedestal and I wanna I want to crack it 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.840 in this moment because I need people to know what 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:08.080 I've worked on on my inside, you know what I mean, 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:12.120 what I've had to pull through, and the things I 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:16.320 still have to subdue that I still have to say 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.199 agent no, no, no, no no no, don't listen to that bullshit. 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:22.040 Replace it with the truth. Replace it with the truth. 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.000 Replace it with the truth. And I think shame has 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:26.959 this tendency to show up as a voice in your 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.480 head show up as this this, this, this person that's 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:34.200 talking to you and telling you these lie about yourself, 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.040 and you have to constantly be able to tell it 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:39.560 sit down and shut the funk up. But you do understand, 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:41.440 and I must get to see you and jail on 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.440 that note, y'all, the whole cracking that pedestal thing. So 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:46.640 what y'all don't know about this pedestal as you're on, 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:48.560 because you know, I'm a fan too, so I feel 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.000 like I can speak for folks who are you know, 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.560 plan and supporters of yours, is that when you give 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.199 these realities of who you really are and how hard 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:00.320 and sometimes challenging it is to be the person sception 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.080 of what people see you to be, you do know 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:07.079 that that puts you further up on the pedestal. I 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.640 just I think that you should understand that you're not 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.520 cracking it with that. What you're doing is lifting yourself higher. 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:15.600 Because now it's like she is she is a whole 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:17.959 human being, and I get that, and I'm trying to 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:20.360 understand that too, and so yes, and so now as 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:22.720 you just shared that with me too, and she's still 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:26.560 imagine she's still and you are still able to do 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.200 this and make me feel this way from your art 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.360 and things like that, like yeah, honey, you yeah, you 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.199 ain't cracking. You just put the glue and that's what 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:38.080 happened to be, y'all. I love you. I love you. 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:42.680 What about it? If the the shame is something that's 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:46.520 just a fact, you know, it's not it's just a fact, 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.080 you know, like when it's not a lie, when it's 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:52.840 not something that your mind is telling you, but it's 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:56.960 just a fact. You know. Um, I was born with 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:02.959 a lopoma on my lower back, and and boy, I 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:06.840 always felt like I was some kind of mutant thingy 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.280 because my my fingers don't really have bones, and I'm 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:15.400 like they're real bendy and flexible. And my fingers and 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:21.520 my hips are the same. It's very flexile. That it's 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.920 not a flex that is just the fact. But as 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:27.439 a kid growing up, you can't say that to that 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:33.800 because I mean to um, But but I also had 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.240 you know, this lie pomau a lipoma is it's like 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:43.480 a ball of tissue, and very early on people noticed 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:49.120 it and they called me like scoliosis, you know, like 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.360 that was a nickname. You know that kids will call 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:56.400 me scoliosis, and I just felt with somebody gonna say 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:59.839 your your shirt is toughed and funny, you know, and 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:04.000 try to fix it for me, like I still very 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.520 much carry it. I still very much have it, you know, 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.760 so like I think about it. I think about it 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.880 every day because you know, I feel like as a human, 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:19.560 like I'm not I'm literally not like anybody else, you know, 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.080 like with people who are born with like six fingers 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.360 or you know. I think that's probably why I love 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:31.320 the idiosyncrasies of people so much, because I'm like you're 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.000 you know. I guess maybe this is the way I 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:38.120 rationalize it, or that I find some level of peace 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.960 with it, because for a long time, I just didn't 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:44.400 have peace with it. You know. I tried to get 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.600 it removed to say, because the Bill Popper Dr Billy 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.000 that it's not something that you could it's not something 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:55.520 that you could pop. She's removes it like homeless, like 0:14:55.560 --> 0:15:00.160 she's yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm afraid of surgery because I 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.280 just did not have a good experience. I tried to 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:05.360 remove it once. Um, I had good health insurance when 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:09.000 I was twenty five and I and I had it 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.040 removed and it was not um. It was a very 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.120 very painful process, and in about three years it grew 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:19.760 right back, you know. So it's like, so go ahead 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:21.720 and do this again and have it grow right back, 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.880 you know, Like that is I can't even believe I'm 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:27.840 saying it out loud, like it is such a thing 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.400 for me. And then because I'm always trying to make 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:35.480 peace with the ship that's in my life, I discovered 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:42.040 that it's an a rogenous zone because I feel so 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.560 shameful about it that when it is you know, tough 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.440 on and loved on, that's a whole another level of 0:15:51.000 --> 0:16:04.160 excitement and you know, fluidity. So I guess because I 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:08.000 have to go, I guess it's saying that, like I 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.280 try to make peace in whatever way I can with 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:16.320 whatever is going on with me. Sometimes that means an apology, 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:20.320 and that ship the apology is sometimes to me, you know, 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.600 like Okay, you know, don't don't be so hard on yourself, 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.120 don't don't be yourself up so much. This is not 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.080 something that you have done to yourself. This is something 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:34.280 you were born with. And even even then, like I questioned, 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:38.680 like okay, I love but I love God so much, 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.280 and I'm like Okay, if you gave me this, there 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:43.400 has to be a reason for it. I have to 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:45.440 be strong enough to stick it out, you know what 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.400 I mean, to just be cool with it at two, Like, 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:50.600 I have a lot of thoughts, and I still have 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.760 these thoughts at this time because just recently my sister 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.040 mentioned it to me, and at first I was mad 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:00.640 that she was even talk about it, But then I 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.280 was like, why am I Look, it is what it is. 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.280 She's known me, damn there all my life, like cut 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.920 it out. And she was like, well, why don't you 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:15.280 go to to to get it removed, you know, and 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.560 then you'll feel better? And I was like, will I? 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:26.359 Will I? You know, will I? But see that's a 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.680 word right there, being attached to your wound, attached to 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.440 the thing that you're ashamed of, attached to the thing 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:36.480 you're shamed of. Yeah, I think, yeah, yeah, I feel 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:38.879 like you can get used to a thing and you 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.119 find a bit of identity in it, even in your 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:45.560 color mechanism, like you know, uh, well, I feel ashamed 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.960 about this thing, and so that makes me fuel to 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.600 do this other thing to escape it. And so that 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.080 kind of made me great or made me do such 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.000 and such and such and such people. I think I'm minimized. 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:00.240 I might minimize other people's stuff because I'm like, you know, 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.359 like oh, they'll say something like oh why my my 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:05.560 my thighs are too big, and I'm like, you don't 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:09.040 have a lot of poems, you know, so wait, that's 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.600 hilarious and can I want to share that I had? 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.040 Just I feel like in the last five years, like 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.760 women have started to shed the shame of like the 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:21.440 five broid world. And they're doing it because you said, 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:23.080 just in the sense of you a lot of poem 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.239 and waits. To like get over these shames is by 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.280 letting other women know that they have it right, because 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.560 like literally and and it's funny because as much as 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.760 even I posted like my fire broid stuff, I still 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.119 get people going, oh, I didn't know, and I'm so 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.359 glad that there's somebody else in the struggle and whatnot, 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.600 because they're their shame depending on how you feel where 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.920 your fire broids are, how they impede on your reproduction, 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:48.680 how they impede on your period, the shame of like 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.080 these heavy periods where you don't feel comfortable leaven the house, 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.600 this pain that people don't understand because you gotta you 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:57.280 still gotta work every day, but you're going through this 0:18:57.320 --> 0:18:59.000 pain like it's it's it's so much shame in that, 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:04.240 and I just I appreciate the progress of women and 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.560 sharing to make it the shame a little. Ultimately, what 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:09.199 you're saying is that one of the ways you can 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:13.440 combat shame is by like not being isolated, yes, isolation, yes, 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:17.480 and feeling like yes because most of the times and 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:19.920 that and that goes back to it's funny because it 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:21.840 even goes back to this show j dr Il, and 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:25.280 what we provide for people is this conversation where some 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.119 of these subjects you like, I don't know if I 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:29.400 feel comfortable saying this. I'm not the only person thinking 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:31.159 this way. But then you listen to this show and 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:33.200 you're like, oh god, I just feels so good to 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.440 hear that somebody else is thinking this way. So yeah, 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.480 applying that the same thing to kind of how Jill 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:40.720 was feeling about her life home man, and how and 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.920 how women are sharing with fibroid, you know, situations, Yeah, 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:46.159 I feel like that's you know, we're about solutions, so 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:48.359 I'm like, yeah, less isolation. What you said in your 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:53.160 educated way Asa scare bro. I love it. You're funny, 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.639 but I really did not think for I really did 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.320 not think that I was and nothing. I didn't think 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:00.879 I was human. Of always known I was human, but 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:04.639 I always feel like, what what am I I was? 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:06.840 You know, if you watch people, you would feel your 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.040 whole tribe okay, nothing, but you've never seen this show. 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:14.159 Nothing girl. Your people. Your people aren't on the internets 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:16.480 like I'm telling you, and they have like homers in 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:18.720 the craziest places. And sometimes you'll tell them and I 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:20.240 might not want to cut it because it might grow 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:26.639 backs like every day that girl, you missed it. We 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.639 need to we need to share this with you because 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:34.440 I'm telling you like it can go away. And there's 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:39.399 so many people who have I mean, and they faced 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.840 your back and they've talked about that how it is, 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:45.840 how when they go out and they feel people are 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.960 staring at them right over my safe messed with their Yes, 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:53.520 they their intimacy. It's affected their intimacy. Girl, I'm trying 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:58.560 to tell you. Listen offline, We're gonna watch people paper together. 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:03.480 We all I'm find this doctor league. There was there 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:05.560 was and I think it was in high school. There 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:09.400 was a rumor that I had a tail, Oh mama, 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:11.000 And I can see by the look on your face 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:14.760 that this is deep. It is deep, It is deep. 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:17.920 It hurt a lot, but you didn't know you had community. Man, 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.240 That's all I'm saying. Like you, I just I just 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:24.720 like the idea of that, like eliminating the isolation. You know, 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:29.200 that's Can you imagine? Can you imagine being a man 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:32.840 with a very small penis? M Can you imagine what 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:38.960 that feels like? M M. You know, like carrying that 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:41.680 there's like a shame involved with it. I mean I 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:45.600 know that I've I've yelled out, like I shouted out 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:47.639 the big dicks in the room. You know, I've done that, 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:50.920 and then I didn't consider you know that there's some 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:53.920 guys in there that don't have wallet. They've got other 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.600 stuff to offer, but they don't have that particular thing. 0:21:57.880 --> 0:21:59.880 I think we have a hard time giving men pure 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:03.920 in space to feel their shame and to feel their hurt. 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.080 I mean, I know we talk a lot about women here. 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:09.320 You know, I love me see women. I love black women, 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:13.119 lift us up any chance that I get. But I 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:18.040 know that the pain that men feel because they just 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:20.639 don't there's no place for them to be vulnerable like 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:22.439 they just and a lot of the things, a lot 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:25.440 of the shame that they hold, and particularly around things 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:28.080 like sexual violence and stuff like that that they've experienced, 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:30.720 it they do not talk about. They not only do 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:32.560 they not report, but they do not talk about it. 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:35.920 No safe space and no safe space for them, and 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:38.400 even down like you said, to physiological things for black 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:41.040 from not just black men, but from men period, you know, 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:44.520 to a small penises, not having a cut, body being, 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:48.840 being overweight, body shaming for men. See, we talk about 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:53.440 body shaming, and we center women a lot of for sure. 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:56.680 And speaking of let me tell you the thing that 0:22:57.200 --> 0:22:59.040 made me think when we first brought this up, I 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:02.879 had just read had essay by uh you know, I 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:06.639 follow his his handle, his son of Baldwin, and so 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:10.359 I was reading his blog and he was, you know, 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:14.119 speaking about Little nos X. Yeah, and we don't have 0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:15.720 to go deep into that, because I know that's like 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:18.680