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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, welcome to Legally Brunette. I will be your

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Speaker 1: host today, Emily Simpson, along with my co host Shane

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Speaker 1: Shane Okay, Shane Simpson. We have a lot to discuss today,

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Speaker 1: a lot of things going on in the news. I

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Speaker 1: think first of all, we have to talk about the

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Speaker 1: Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni recent decision that came out

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Speaker 1: by the judge. Because obviously, if you guys just started

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Speaker 1: listening to Legally Brunette, if you want to go back,

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Speaker 1: we did some really good episodes back when we first

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Speaker 1: started Legally Brunette on the Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni case,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like we did a really good job

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Speaker 1: of breaking it down and making it easily understood. And

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Speaker 1: so if you're interested in going back and listening to those,

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Speaker 1: you can find those on our feed. But so just recently,

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Speaker 1: there was an order that came out which it was

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty two page ruling, which I had

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Speaker 1: Shane fine for me, but then when I saw that

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Speaker 1: it was one hundred and fifty two pages, that that

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Speaker 1: was a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you always brag about reading in detail and then

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Speaker 2: this one you're like nothing.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, it was a lot. It was very in depth.

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Speaker 1: So what we're going to do is just break it

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Speaker 1: down and try to make it a little more simplified.

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Speaker 1: So a little background on the case. Lively did sue

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Speaker 1: Baldoni and his production company Wayfairer back in twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: alleging sexual harassment during filming, unwanted physical contact and properly

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Speaker 1: adding sex scenes, a coordinated pr smear campaign, and defamation

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Speaker 1: and conspiracy related to that alleged campaign. So the judge

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Speaker 1: just recently. What the judge ruled on was a summary

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Speaker 1: judgment that was initiated by Baldoni.

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Speaker 2: Well, and a summary judgment is well.

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Speaker 1: Basically, what he was asking was that the court dismissed

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Speaker 1: the claims, saying that there wasn't factual evidence or there

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Speaker 1: wasn't there was something like.

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Speaker 2: If you look at everything the other side said, and

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Speaker 2: if everything they say is true, there is no claim,

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Speaker 2: right judge.

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Speaker 1: The judge dismissed ten of Blake Lively's thirteen claims. So

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Speaker 1: really the big ones were the ones that were dismissed.

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Speaker 1: The sexual harassment, defamation, and conspiracy claims were all thrown out.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I was just thinking about it again.

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Speaker 1: Remember how we when we did the earlier episodes of

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Speaker 1: talking about how much we dislike Blake Lively and my

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Speaker 1: opinion on her has not changed at all. And I

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Speaker 1: was just reminded of how much I wonder if she

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Speaker 1: could go back in time, if she regrets filing this

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Speaker 1: lawsuit in the first place, because you know, she went

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Speaker 1: into it with a big head and a big ego,

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Speaker 1: thinking that she was just going to take this man

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Speaker 1: down and that everyone publicly was going to side with her.

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Speaker 1: And we were talking about how she needed no people

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Speaker 1: in her life, and I still agree with that.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, she needed people in her life, and they

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Speaker 2: needed to be no people, not yes people.

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Speaker 1: Right, she needs quote no people in her life, Like

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Speaker 1: you're a no person. That's why I feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: so great rounded. Oh yeah, I'm very grounded. I'm so

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Speaker 1: great because Shane is a no person. So I don't

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Speaker 1: just if you remember that she alleged sexual harassment based

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Speaker 1: upon this is just one of the scenes. Do you

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Speaker 1: remember the dance scene where he allegedly kissed her forehead

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Speaker 1: and rubbed her face and mouth against she smelled good.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was interesting what the judge said. He

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Speaker 1: said if this conduct happened in a factory or in

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Speaker 1: an office type setting, it could support a harassment claim.

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Speaker 1: But here it occurred during an acting session in a

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Speaker 1: film where two people are filming a movie about being

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Speaker 1: deeply in love. Also one other thing to consider if

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Speaker 1: for some reason, when they were filming that scene, if

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Speaker 1: the judge did rule that that is considered sexual harassment,

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Speaker 1: that maybe at some point he went outside the bounds

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Speaker 1: of his character. Which I don't know how you could

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Speaker 1: figure that out, but let's say he did. Maybe. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but that's a very slippery slope for actors

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Speaker 1: because if a judge ruled that that's considered sexual harassment,

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Speaker 1: and what realm.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, but this goes back to weren't they supposed

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Speaker 2: to have some love consultant or something.

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Speaker 1: Well, they were supposed to have like what to call

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Speaker 1: an intimacy coordinator.

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Speaker 2: Which so if that intimacy because she waved the the

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Speaker 2: the meeting with an intimacy coordinator, correct, right, Okay, so

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Speaker 2: she waved it, then that was her opportunity to know

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Speaker 2: what the expectations were and to be able to draw

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Speaker 2: a line if she was uncomfortable with him smelling or

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Speaker 2: perfume or whatever like that. But she waved all that,

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Speaker 2: so she consented to even more like she didn't put.

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Speaker 1: Any boundaries in claries, right. And also again just back

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Speaker 1: to the slippery slope. Can you imagine if that was

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Speaker 1: considered sexual harassment in that type of setting, then every

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Speaker 1: actor going forward that has to do a love scene

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Speaker 1: could be concerned that. And when you're acting, I that

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Speaker 1: when you're in a love scene, you improvise a lot.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you strictly follow exactly now now

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Speaker 1: this check then blow in her ear, then ringing down

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Speaker 1: to her net. It's not script. I would assume that

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Speaker 1: you are improvising a lot in a love scene.

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Speaker 2: Well, especially like because it wasn't there dancing. It was

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Speaker 2: like like it's kind of like a like a b roll, right,

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Speaker 2: Like they're just like do a lot of dancing and

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Speaker 2: kind of chit chat and kind of being cute and cuddly. Right,

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Speaker 2: It's not like we need ten seconds of it and

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Speaker 2: that's it. It's like, Okay, we need some more. Okay,

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Speaker 2: we need this angle, we need that angle. So they

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Speaker 2: have to improvise, right.

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Speaker 1: Another just another breakdown of this one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: two page decision. One of the other things that was

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Speaker 1: really profound as far as the judge's decision was the

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Speaker 1: judge decided that she was not considered an employee for

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Speaker 1: purposes of this lawsuit, because in order for her to

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Speaker 1: have a sexual harassment claim under Title seven, I believe,

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Speaker 1: is what she was using, you have to be an employee.

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Speaker 1: And then they use as evidence that she wasn't an

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Speaker 1: employee for purposes of Title seven, that she was an

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Speaker 1: independent contractor. And she really screwed herself when she wrote

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Speaker 1: that five page email to the PGA asking for She

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Speaker 1: wanted that, you know, high producer credit. I think PGA

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Speaker 1: stands for a Producer's Guild of America. She wrote a

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Speaker 1: five page email trying to convince them why she needed this,

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Speaker 1: you know, accolade, and she wrote out seventy seven bullet

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Speaker 1: points as to how she contributed so much to this

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Speaker 1: film beyond just being an employee, talking about how she

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Speaker 1: did all the marketing, and she did all the editing,

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Speaker 1: and she wrote scenes that.

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Speaker 2: Kind of stripped her of her employee status.

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Speaker 1: Right. So basically the judge was like, well, you're not

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Speaker 1: acting as an employee because an employee has a very

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Speaker 1: specific scope of work, and she would be actress if

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Speaker 1: she was an employee, So actress would mean that she's.

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Speaker 2: Actual seeing she would be doing as she's told, Whereas

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Speaker 2: here she's saying I initiated it, I did this, she

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Speaker 2: brought us to the table.

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Speaker 1: I helped with this. Right, she's saying, I rewrote all

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Speaker 1: these scenes, I coordinated the fashion, I did all the marketing.

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Speaker 1: I did all these things in.

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Speaker 2: This and in our marriage. Yes, I'm the employee and

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Speaker 2: you are the independent contractor.

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Speaker 1: I am.

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Speaker 2: You do as you wish, and you dictate the terms

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Speaker 2: and you direct everyone, and I just have my scope

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Speaker 2: of work and I'm supposed to stay within.

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Speaker 1: Those boundaries as it should be.

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Speaker 2: Ladies, right, gentlemen, careful, all right.

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Speaker 1: Also, today, as we were about to record this podcast,

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Speaker 1: Blake Lively addressed her case against Justin Baldoni on Instagram,

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Speaker 1: and right when she posted it, we were all talking

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Speaker 1: about it, and Shane actually got a screenshot of it.

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Speaker 1: Good job because she then deleted this post roughly five

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Speaker 1: minutes later. She stated in her Instagram posts, I brought

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Speaker 1: this case because of the pervasive retaliation I faced and

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Speaker 1: continue to for privately and professionally, asking for a safe

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Speaker 1: working environment for myself and others. She also added a

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Speaker 1: dragon emoji to the end of her statement, which calls

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Speaker 1: back to a text message to Baldoni where she called

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Speaker 1: herself Kalisi from Game of Thrones. Also, if you remember,

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Speaker 1: she also referred to Well, there was an inference that

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Speaker 1: she was also referring to Taylor Swift and to Ryan

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Speaker 1: Reynolds as her dragons as well. I believe Lively and

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Speaker 1: Baldoni are set to go to trial for these retaliation

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Speaker 1: claims on May eighteenth. My question is do you think

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Speaker 1: that she will try and now settle this out of court,

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Speaker 1: because obviously before they go to trial, there's going to

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Speaker 1: be mandatory settlement conferences. So do you think that there'll

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Speaker 1: be any kind of settlement or do you think she

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Speaker 1: actually wants to go to court and get on the

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Speaker 1: stand and testify.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Because she took that post down, does

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Speaker 2: that mean anything?

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't This is what I was thinking also

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Speaker 1: about the post. Did she posted and then someone likes

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Speaker 1: she Maybe she does have a no person in her

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Speaker 1: life that called her and said no, no, you need

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Speaker 1: to take that down. That doesn't look good.

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Speaker 2: I don't know her attorney or something, you know what

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Speaker 2: would be damning in that post anyway for her to

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Speaker 2: want to remove.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what I saw.

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Speaker 2: I got to read it.

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Speaker 1: I skimmed through it before she took it down, and

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Speaker 1: it looked like what she did on those thirteen slides

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Speaker 1: that she posted was I believe she pulled excerpts from

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Speaker 1: the one hundred and fifty two page decision where there

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Speaker 1: were some positive things that the judge had said regarding

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Speaker 1: her case and the claims that she's allowed to go forward.

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Speaker 1: So it looked like she was just picking and choosing

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Speaker 1: things that were because I positive regarded it.

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Speaker 2: I saw the very beginning where she she said something.

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Speaker 2: I'm very pleased she was trying to show her like,

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Speaker 2: have everyone see it from her angle.

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Speaker 1: Right, because everyone out there is talking about how she's

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Speaker 1: basically like that was a huge win for Baldoni. The

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Speaker 1: ten of the biggest claims were thrown out. So now

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Speaker 1: you have a breach of contract and you have a

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Speaker 1: retaliation and the claim yeah, the you know, the the weather.

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Speaker 1: When he hired this crisis management PR team, whether they

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Speaker 1: I don't know that they were hiring bots and they

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Speaker 1: were doing all these things to have this smear campaign

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Speaker 1: against her. But you know, as far as I'm concerned,

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Speaker 1: isn't that what actors do, don't they? That's why there's

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Speaker 1: crisis PR people. I mean, that's why they exist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's also it's like sort of like saying, oh,

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Speaker 2: my gosh, well that person hired an attorney, so they're

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Speaker 2: clearly they got something wrong with them. It's like, well, no,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe they'd want to stay within their boundaries.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they want to know what their rights were. Maybe

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Speaker 2: they want to make sure that they don't get, you know,

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Speaker 2: prosecuted for anything or you know, a judgment against them

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Speaker 2: for anything more than they did. So you go to

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Speaker 2: a PR crisis fir him because you're like, hey, I'm

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Speaker 2: in a little bit of trouble and I kind of

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Speaker 2: want to get out of it and I want to

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Speaker 2: stay in my line.

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Speaker 1: She has PR people, he has PR people, but he

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Speaker 1: hired a PR like someone that specifically does PR crisis

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Speaker 1: and I believe he did after the movie and during

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Speaker 1: all that time period when all the marketing was going on,

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Speaker 1: and he wasn't allowed to go to the premiere and

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Speaker 1: he wasn't on any of the posters and remember he

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Speaker 1: based they got cut out, he wasn't allowed in the

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Speaker 1: editing bay, and she was editing it, and then there

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Speaker 1: were all those things going on. He knew he was

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Speaker 1: on notice that this woman was doing everything possible to

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Speaker 1: remove him from this movie and probably destroy his life.

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Speaker 1: So he hired a crisis management team. So now her

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Speaker 1: claim is he did that with the intent to have

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Speaker 1: this false narrative against her, this smear campaign out there.

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Speaker 2: What she's back to my original thing, which is, sometimes

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Speaker 2: you have a defense attorney. It doesn't mean you're guilty.

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Speaker 2: This means you're trying to.

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Speaker 1: Manage something right right well, you know. And also it's

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Speaker 1: a lack of accountability for the fact that the public

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Speaker 1: turned against her because of her own antics and because

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Speaker 1: of her own text messages and the way she behaved

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Speaker 1: on set and the things that came out once, you know,

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Speaker 1: he replied to that New York Times article and anyway.

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Speaker 2: You see her ever doing like a movie again?

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Speaker 1: No? And I was thinking, and I was like, ever

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Speaker 1: since she did it ends with us? Has she done

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Speaker 1: anything else?

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Speaker 2: How often this I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I feel like she was in a lot of things

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Speaker 1: and now it's just you she was in like the

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Speaker 1: Age of Adeline. I remember that I watched that on Netflix,

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Speaker 1: and she was in Savages, and she's been in you know,

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Speaker 1: the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, and she was on

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Speaker 1: Gossip Girl. I mean, she's on lots of things. All right,

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Speaker 1: let's go on and do an update on Melissa Gilbert

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Speaker 1: and Timothy Busfield. Melissa Gilbert knew about Timothy Busfield's past

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Speaker 1: sexual assault allegations before marrying him. This came out in

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Speaker 1: a People article. So Melissa Gilbert addressed past allegations against

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Speaker 1: her husband Timothy Busfield in an interview with Good Morning

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Speaker 1: America on April sixth, saying the claims have been out

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Speaker 1: in the ether for a very long time. She discussed

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Speaker 1: them with him before they married in twenty thirteen. She

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Speaker 1: said she is neither naive nor complicit and believes he

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Speaker 1: will share his side when the time is right. How

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Speaker 1: do you go into an interview and say that you

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Speaker 1: knew that he had sexual assault allegations and you still

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Speaker 1: marry someone. I would never marry someone that had someone

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Speaker 1: claiming that there were sexual assault allegations against them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So she's trying to make it like everybody knows this already,

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Speaker 1: so like it's a common knowledge or something, So that

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Speaker 1: makes it better. Okay, don't worry about that. Sexual assault allegations,

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Speaker 1: everybody's already been talking about.

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Speaker 2: Everyone knows he's a creep.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, why are we talking about this? According to an

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Speaker 1: arrest warrant, police reference to prior allegations, one in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen nineties involving a teenage film extra that led to

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Speaker 1: a lawsuit later settled without charges. That means they settled

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Speaker 1: out of court, and another in twenty twelve, in which

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Speaker 1: a woman accused him of inappropriate touching. Prosecutors declined to

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Speaker 1: file charges, citing limited evidence, but Busfield denied wrongdoing in

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Speaker 1: both instances. If you remember, we did talk about this earlier.

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Speaker 1: But he was arrested back in January and New Mexico

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Speaker 1: on charges alleging unlawful sexual contact involving two eleven year

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Speaker 1: old boys he met while working on a television set.

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Speaker 1: Gilbert described the aftermath as the most traumatizing experience of

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Speaker 1: our lives, saying their former life is done, and called

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Speaker 1: her husband the last person in the world who had

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Speaker 1: hurt a child.

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Speaker 2: Say anything you want, last person hurt a child, blah blah, blah.

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Speaker 1: It's like, well, well allegedly he did.

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. Like, okay, so he said that

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Speaker 2: facts are a little bit different. I'd wait for the

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Speaker 2: facts to come out.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, he has these he has sexual assault

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Speaker 1: allegations against him on two prior occasions. There's probably more

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Speaker 1: than that. Those are the only ones that are publicly known,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know. I just don't.

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Speaker 2: It's like it's like when somebody that's caught for shoplifting

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Speaker 2: and then they're like, why would I shoplift I could

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Speaker 2: afford to buy it. It's like, well, there's still lots

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Speaker 2: of reasons for he to shoplift. So in this case,

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Speaker 2: it's like just because someone said, like he loves kids,

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Speaker 2: he would never hurt a child.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'm sure everyone that abuses children says I

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Speaker 1: love children, I wouldn't hurt a child.

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Speaker 2: Right, It's probably the first sign of a pedophile denial.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to Savannah Guthrie. Just a

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Speaker 1: little update in this case. Also, I was going to

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Speaker 1: tell you the other day I was traveling back from

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Speaker 1: Palm Springs to Orange County and there was a huge

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Speaker 1: billboard on the side of the road. That was like

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Speaker 1: that was talking about all billboards huge, this is huge,

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Speaker 1: hug It was huger, and it said Nancy Guthrie is missing,

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Speaker 1: and it had a big picture of her, and it

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Speaker 1: had you know all the information and call this number

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Speaker 1: if you have any information and all the things. Savannah

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Speaker 1: returned to today today, marking this her first appearance in

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Speaker 1: more than two months after her mother was believed to

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Speaker 1: have been adducted from her home in Tucson, Arizona. Opening

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Speaker 1: the broadcast, Guthrie told viewers she was grateful to be back.

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Speaker 1: She said she felt like I believe. She said she

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Speaker 1: felt like she was back home, and co anker Craig

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Speaker 1: Melvin welcome her return, saying it was good to have

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Speaker 1: her back home. I was thinking about this case again

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Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie. First of all, we're talking about an eighty

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Speaker 1: four year old woman. What happened to the ransom notes

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Speaker 1: in the beginning, it's just like, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Know, but nothing as service. How far are weay into this?

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Speaker 1: Six year, days, sixty days.

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Speaker 2: And two months. All that activity, all that news coverage

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Speaker 2: is helpful in getting tips right and today where are

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Speaker 2: we at? She's missing?

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Speaker 1: I know it makes no more evidence.

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Speaker 2: No more leads, no more anything at least publicly known

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Speaker 2: than what was known pretty much the first week, which

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Speaker 2: is there's ring camera footage, there's like a blood drop,

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Speaker 2: and she's missing.

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Speaker 1: Well. And also the ransom notes that kept popping up.

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Speaker 1: Remember TMZ had one and then there was another one.

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Speaker 2: That popped up, but it TMZ is nowhere. First that

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Speaker 2: Harvey guy was all over the place. Now where is he?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, But it just makes no sense that

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Speaker 1: someone It made it as if someone was abducting an

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Speaker 1: eighty four year old woman in order to gain monetary,

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Speaker 1: you know, benefit somehow, and if that was your end goal.

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Speaker 1: There was never any exchange of money. And now we're

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Speaker 1: sixty days in and no one knows where this woman is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I don't know where you go from there.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And also I saw some things that the investigator that

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Speaker 1: was investigating this kidnapping, it was his first time investigating

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Speaker 1: a case of this magnitude. So I think people were

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Speaker 1: questioning whether, you know, it was fit to do it.

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Speaker 2: So the site was in Palm Springs, which is many

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Speaker 2: hours away from.

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Speaker 1: Well, she was a doctor in Yeah, in Arizona. They

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Speaker 1: probably have them everywhere. I just saw it and I thought, wow,

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Speaker 1: that's interesting. I just saw a billboard for Nancy Guthrie.

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Speaker 1: I wonder how many are out there. I know, all right,

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Speaker 1: let's move on. This is another update that I thought

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Speaker 1: was interesting. So another Ted Bundy victim, a Utah teen

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Speaker 1: identified as a victim of serial killer Ted Bundy, has

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Speaker 1: been identified. Utah officials have officially closed the nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: four murder case of seventeen year old Laura and Aim

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Speaker 1: after new DNA testing confirmed that she was killed by

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Speaker 1: serial killer Ted Bundy. Although Bundy confessed to her killing

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Speaker 1: before his nineteen eighty nine execution, investigators kept the case

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Speaker 1: open because he provided no details. The Utah County Sheriff's

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Speaker 1: Office said recent testing confirmed irrefutably that DNA from the

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Speaker 1: scene and matched Bundy, allowing authorities to close the case

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Speaker 1: without a shadow of doubt. Bundy murdered at least thirty

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Speaker 1: women between seventy four and seventy eight, and was linked

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Speaker 1: to additional killings across the US. He was arrested in

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Speaker 1: seventy five, escaped from jail twice in seventy seven, and

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Speaker 1: was captured for the final time in seventy eight, and

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Speaker 1: then they executed him in nineteen eighty nine.

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Speaker 2: They represented himself, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. That's interesting Florida.

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Speaker 2: Was it Florida where he was executed?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Is that where he was executed. I

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Speaker 1: don't know that much about Ted Bundy. I do know

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Speaker 1: that when I was in asked and we took a

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Speaker 1: little tour and we walked by the jail cell where

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Speaker 1: he had escaped from, he jumped out onto the front

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Speaker 1: lawn of like the police.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah building, yeah, Florida State. Yeah, he didn't he

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Speaker 2: because he represents himself, so he'd have to have access

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Speaker 2: to like libraries and stuff, or you know, somehow he

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Speaker 2: would got to have a cell that way, whether it's

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Speaker 2: a library, they'd put him in a study room or

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Speaker 2: something like that, and then he would I know one

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Speaker 2: of those times he escaped.

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Speaker 1: Was that his plan all along? Or do you think

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Speaker 1: he really just wanted to represent himself? Well no, but

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, do you think he wanted to represent himself

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Speaker 1: or did he want to represent himself so he had

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Speaker 1: more freedom so that he could.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure he was doing everything he could he get

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Speaker 2: out of jail. Whether it was legally or escaping, I'm

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Speaker 2: sure it was always on his mind to run away.

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Speaker 2: And then when the opportunity came, whether it be by

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Speaker 2: being in a library or going to the restroom or

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Speaker 2: being in a cell or whatever, he took it and

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Speaker 2: ran right.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well that's interesting. You know what else is

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Speaker 1: interesting is just because DNA. I feel like DNA is

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Speaker 1: becoming so advanced so quickly. It's like AI, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, Like I remember people talking about AI.

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Speaker 1: It feels like just like a year ago maybe, and

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Speaker 1: now everything's AI. But I feel like it's the same

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Speaker 1: with DNA. It's like all of a sudden, it was

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Speaker 1: like a slow trickle of things being solved because of DNA,

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Speaker 1: and now it's just like I guess it's just so

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Speaker 1: readily available. It's easy. Now we have advanced DNA technology

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Speaker 1: and even we're talking about the Golden State Killer and

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Speaker 1: how they can you do all the family well, I think.

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Speaker 2: Website and everything smaller elements you can you can extract

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Speaker 2: DNA from smaller samplings like hair. I think the hair

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Speaker 2: follicle that used to there was a time where it

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Speaker 2: wasn't enough DNA and now it is.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you can test DNA not from the actual follicle,

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Speaker 1: but from the actual strand of hair. No, I said,

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Speaker 1: foll oh, all right, but I thought they could always

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Speaker 1: do that. Is that that's I don't.

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Speaker 2: Know if they can get it from there. All I

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Speaker 2: know is that it's advanced, so they can go back

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Speaker 2: in cases where even when DNA was available, but it

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Speaker 2: wasn't testable like the sampling sample that they had, and

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Speaker 2: now they can. So I'm just saying it's increased the availability.

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Speaker 1: Of it, right, So I think a lot more cold

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Speaker 1: case or older cases can be solved pretty easily.

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Speaker 2: Now as long as it was preserved.

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Speaker 1: Now it's all about having the manpower or the finances

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Speaker 1: to go back and be able to test yea.

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Speaker 2: And the need to yeah, right, because there's some keysing

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Speaker 2: more of a priority over others.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to the last topic today.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the Duggers, the dysfunctional Dugger family.

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Speaker 1: A quick content warning. This episode includes a discussion of

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Speaker 1: sex related crimes involving minors. These topics may be distressing

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Speaker 1: for some listeners, so please proceed with care. So Joseph

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Speaker 1: Dugger was a member of the Dugger family from reality TV?

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Speaker 1: Did you ever watch the Doors? Never watched it?

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Speaker 2: No, I wantn't want to watch, Like chaos in a

438
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 2: house with a bunch of kids was in my family room.

439
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 2: I watched someone else. And you know what bothers me

440
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:18,479
Speaker 2: about those scenes is everything so perfect? You know, they

441
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 2: have everything organized, all the kids, they are so happy.

442
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 1: Said you didn't watch it?

443
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 2: No, but I've seen clips. Yeah, long time ago, like

444
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 2: twenty years ago. And I remember one scene where like

445
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 2: they moved into a new house. I saw and it

446
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 2: was like they built this insane home that looked like

447
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 2: like a school with cafeteria and all this stuff. And

448
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 2: I disagged they were getting all these donations, you know,

449
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 2: because they'd have like a pamper changing station or like

450
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 2: a you know, I don't know McDonald's cafe in there

451
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 2: or something and all this stuff. And then it was

452
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 2: clearly like vendors, Like you know, it's like, why are

453
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,360
Speaker 2: we promoting these people? And now look at them, they're

454
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 2: all crooks.

455
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 1: Well they're not crooks there. I love what you call

456
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 1: everyone a crook. That's just like you're catch all for

457
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: anyone you don't like, it's a crook. They're pedophiles and

458
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: it's two of them against the law, right, like a crook.

459
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: All right, So Joseph Duggar, he was just recently arrested.

460
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: Is he the dad?

461
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 1: No, he is not the day dad in jail or something. No,

462
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 1: let's see, I told you, I know, I'm well aware.

463
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: I thought the dad went to jail a long time ago. No,

464
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: the oldest brother did. We're going to get to him.

465
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: This is another brother. His name's Joseph Dougger.

466
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 2: Lots of siblings.

467
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: Yes, that's why it's called like nineteen in counting or something.

468
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: I don't even there's a lot of them. The Britises

469
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: stopped counting at nineteen.

470
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like a jacks and I went to seventeen eighteen,

471
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, nineteen in county.

472
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: So he was just arrested in March of twenty twenty six,

473
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: so just recently for charges connected to a twenty twenty

474
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 1: incident involving a nine year old girl during a family

475
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: vacation in Florida. Authorities say that case came to light

476
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: after a forensic interview and that he admitted to the

477
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 1: behavior when confronted, though he has pleaded not guilty following

478
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 1: his arrest, additional unrelated charges involving child endangerment and false

479
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 1: imprisonment were filed against both him and his wife, Kendra.

480
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,199
Speaker 1: The situation sparked widespread reactions from his family, many of

481
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: whom condemned the alleged actions. Some expressed support for the

482
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:29,479
Speaker 1: victim and referenced the family's past trauma involving his older

483
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: brother Josh Dugger. Now my question, yes, go ahead, yes, Google.

484
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 2: Forensic interview.

485
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: Yes. Forensic interview structured.

486
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 2: Neutral and recorded conversation conducted by a trained professional with

487
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 2: a child or vulnerable adult to gather facts regarding alleged

488
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 2: abuse or witness of a crime. It provides a safe,

489
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 2: child friendly environment to minimize trauma.

490
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: So he was twenty five at the time of this

491
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: incident that happened with a nine year old with a

492
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: nine year old in Florida. So Joseph Dugger was raised.

493
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 1: That's who we're talking about. In Tonta Town to Tonka,

494
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 1: non To Town, Tonta Town, Arkansas. By Jim Bob. I

495
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 1: love his name is Jim Bob. I love saying Jim Bob.

496
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: Who names her kid Jim.

497
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 2: Bob, Jim Bob's parents, Jim's parents, Jim Bob.

498
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: And Jim Bob jor Jim Bob is the dad Jim Bob,

499
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: Jim Bob and Michelle Dugger. So now we're talking about Joseph.

500
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 1: This is the son. He grew up in a strict

501
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 1: fundamentalist Christian household with a large family, and they were

502
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: widely known on the reality show nineteen Kids in Counting

503
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: which we talked about, and then later there was a

504
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: show called Counting On which was a spin off of

505
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: the original series. Their lifestyle emphasized religion, modesty, obedience, and

506
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: strong parental control. Josh Dugger, so this is another brother.

507
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: This is the oldest brother, Josh Douggart, Joseph's older brother,

508
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 1: was raised in the same environment. As a teenager, Josh

509
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: was accused of sexually abusing multiple girls, including his own sisters.

510
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: There were four girls that came forward that said that

511
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: he had sexually abused them. This is the oldest brother, Josh.

512
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: So we're going back in time and in twenty twenty

513
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: one he had child sexual abuse material on his computer.

514
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: I believe at work.

515
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: Really they did not have more children.

516
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: Well, here's the question, and this is what I was

517
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:32,479
Speaker 1: thinking about.

518
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 2: I mean, they aren't they like on TV, portrayed themselves

519
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 2: as super religious.

520
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: Yes, that's their whole lifestyle religious.

521
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 2: Yes, family upbringing and see it's all smoking mirrors.

522
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: Well here's the question, stoag No. Let's say, though, I

523
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: was thinking about this, if you have nineteen kids, are

524
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 1: you just statistically going to have a criminal in there

525
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: somewhere because you have so many kids that just one

526
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: of them is statistically just going to turn out?

527
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's not one.

528
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: Well okay, they have two statistically turning into pedophiles.

529
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

530
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 1: Or is there something going on in the household that

531
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: is strange and creepy that is making these men be

532
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: pedophiles or like a contributor from each other?

533
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 2: Right? Well, so you're saying your older brother do it,

534
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 2: and you do it, or you think that's normal, or

535
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,239
Speaker 2: you can do it. I mean no one's I mean,

536
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 2: how are these How are the kids held accountable for anything?

537
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 2: How are they You have two people watching nineteen kids.

538
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 2: It's not normal. How don't you even think I couldn't.

539
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 2: I couldn't even open up a daycare center and get

540
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 2: a license to watch nineteen kids. Yeah, and they're having

541
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 2: their own for twenty four hours a day.

542
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 1: Okay, you know what. That's a good point because when

543
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 1: they talk about having that many children, I remember because

544
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 1: I never really watched it or sat down and watched

545
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: it with that. I saw clips and I would catch

546
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: it every once in a while, and I guess it

547
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: was on TLC or whatever. But I know that they

548
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: would always didn't The older kids always have the responsibility

549
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 1: of like trying to take care of the little kids.

550
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: So she was always pregnant. She was constantly pregnant, and

551
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: like they were paired up or something. Right, So then

552
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: the older kids have the responsibility of taking care of

553
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 1: these younger kids.

554
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 2: That's the greatest life.

555
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: No, but I'm saying I understand what you're saying. You're

556
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 1: saying when you have that many children, it is impossible

557
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: to be a good parent and it's tough to well,

558
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: it would be hard, okay, not, it would be very

559
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 1: difficult to be a very active, hands on parent where

560
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: you're aware.

561
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 2: Of what's going on at school.

562
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 1: I don't, Well, they they're homeschool, that's how they go. No,

563
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: but I understand your point because we have three children

564
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: at home and then you have two children that are older.

565
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: But just managing those kids and all their activities and

566
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: all the things that they have going on is very difficult.

567
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: There's a lot of times where we have to divide

568
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: and conquer. But Michelle's constantly pregnant. There's like never a

569
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: time when she's not pregnant.

570
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 2: I don't think sister Wise has that many kids and

571
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: he's got three wives.

572
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: No, they have that many wives. They have a lot

573
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: of kids, but at least they have four wives to

574
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: take care of those kids.

575
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 2: I'm saying, there's my parents to keep them from becoming dysfunction.

576
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: Two parents that are trying to keep track of nineteen

577
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: Are they keeping track? Well, they're not, that's the point.

578
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: And I'm saying, we always talk about nature versus nurture.

579
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: Is this are they are these two boys pedophiles because

580
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: of a lack of structure, or because of the religion,

581
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: or because of just who knows what I mean. It

582
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,239
Speaker 1: would be a good case study to figure out, like

583
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: what's going on within the household and having the older

584
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: kids have to take care of the younger kids.

585
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 2: I know that's that's a crummy thing. And I know

586
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 2: siblings should have responsibility with other siblings. They get that,

587
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 2: but it's like right when they're born, they're like, oh, okay,

588
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: you're assigned to this little duggart here. You have to

589
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 2: take care of him for the rest of your life.

590
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: I mean it's like, right when they're born, they're like

591
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: a sign to someone.

592
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and how hands on can the mom be when

593
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: she's consistently say something?

594
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 2: If you, as a mother and father can not cannot

595
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: have the time to take care of number nineteen, maybe

596
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 2: you shouldn't have number nineteen, or you have to sign

597
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 2: other kids take care of them.

598
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I I mean, I don't know what their

599
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: philosophy is. It's just, you know, have as many kids

600
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: as they possibly can.

601
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, it should be you have as many kids as

602
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: you can provide for financially, emotionally, and spiritually.

603
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: Not just physically.

604
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, right on the playing supporting them physically?

605
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: What do you mean?

606
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: Well, I mean you can't. You can't even do that.

607
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 2: What does that mean? That means feed them?

608
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: No, I meant physically. I just meant just because you

609
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: can biologically continue to have kids doesn't mean that you should,

610
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: Like you were saying, you can't support them financially or

611
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: emotionally or all the things that children need, just because

612
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: I was saying just because you can physically keep pushing

613
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: kids out doesn't mean that you always should. And here

614
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: you have nineteen kids and two of them turn out

615
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: to be pedophiles. So maybe you should have been a

616
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: little more aware of what they were looking at or

617
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: doing or exposed to, or what they were thinking or

618
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: what they were getting into. Because the oldest brother, Josh,

619
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: that is now spending twelve years in jail for possessing

620
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: child sexual abuse material on a computer, but he also

621
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: was accused of abusing three of his sisters. Do you

622
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: know what That's what happens when you have so many

623
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: siblings in your house is so big, and you have

624
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: so many things going on, you don't know that the

625
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: oldest brother is abusing three of your daughters. I feel

626
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: like that is the lack of awareness when you have

627
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: too many children. All right, let's go back and talk

628
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: a little bit more about Joseph Duggar. He's the one

629
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: that Jess was recently arrested. So he was married in

630
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: May of twenty seventeen. He proposed to Kendrick Caldwell after

631
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: meeting through church. The proposal happened at his sister joy

632
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: Anna's wedding. I don't know how I feel about people

633
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: proposing when there are other people's weddings. I think that's

634
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: such a tacky thing to do, But I don't know so.

635
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking about pedophiles, So I guess at

636
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: this point proposing at someone's wedding is not like the

637
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: worst thing that this family could do. Yeah. Joseph and

638
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: Kendra were married in Arkansas. Kendra's father officiated the ceremony,

639
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: and their wedding was featured on Counting On That's the spinoff.

640
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: They had a child, Garrett. They had a second child, Addison,

641
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: a third child, Brooklyn, and jail records later indicated a

642
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: fourth child, though not publicly confirmed, So I believe they

643
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: have four children. Joseph worked in real estate and lived

644
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,479
Speaker 1: in Arkansas with his family. This is the twenty twenty

645
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: alleged incident that took place in Florida. He's accused of

646
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: molesting a nine year old girl when he was older

647
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: than eighteen. He was twenty five at the time, and

648
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: the alleged incident occurred during a family vacation in Panama

649
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: City Beach, Florida. Joseph reportedly asked her multiple times to

650
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: sit on his lap. Oh that's so gross. The lap thing.

651
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: That's why it's like, I don't know.

652
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: I had a trigger for you.

653
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: I don't know. It just is. I mean, it's like

654
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: even with like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and stuff,

655
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: it's like I just thought they it's the use what's

656
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: seemingly innocent. Yeah right, Yeah, it's really.

657
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 2: Like an ulterior motive and they have some creepy, you know, desire.

658
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: So gross. He also allegedly sat with her under a

659
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: blanket on a couch, and authorities say he touched her inappropriately,

660
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: and the nine year old victim later stated that Joseph

661
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: apologized and then the behavior stopped. Okay, again, as a parent,

662
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: if my nine year old daughter is sitting on a

663
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: couch with an adult male next to her and a

664
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: blanket over the two of them, I'm going to think

665
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: that's flipping weird and I'm going to say something. And

666
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: also the religious facade of someone being so religious that

667
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: you would leave your kid with them because you think

668
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: they're a good person, right, and that doesn't that doesn't always.

669
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't know what was going on was this, no.

670
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: But I'm saying this was a deeply religious family and

671
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: everything centered around religion and they were homeschooled, and they

672
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: talked about religion and faith and all these things. And

673
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: I'm with the way that these two sons behave. It's

674
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: such a facade because someone could look at the family

675
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: and be like, oh, it's so safe to leave my

676
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 1: children around them because they're this good, wholesome family that's

677
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: super religious, when really two of them are pedophiles and

678
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: they're abusing young children.

679
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: Right and looking, and the opposite could be true too.

680
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: Someone is not a religious fanatic, right, and they are

681
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 2: not a creep.

682
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 1: And they have a strong moral condest Exactly. March seventeenth

683
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty six, of the victim, who is now

684
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: fourteen years old, participated in a forensic interview, which was

685
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 1: six years later. We just talked about what that meant.

686
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 1: After the interview, her father confronted Joseph. Investigators say Joseph

687
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: admitted to the behavior during the conversation with the father

688
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: and the detectives. However, you know he's now pleading not guilty,

689
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I don't know how you admit

690
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: to what you did to the father and to detectives,

691
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: but then you plead not guilty, So I don't know.

692
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: How that's going to turn out. According to an affidavit,

693
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: he admitted touching her and said that his intentions quote

694
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: were not puer. He was arrested in Arkansas on a

695
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: Florida warrant. I know he. I think he waived extradition

696
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: like they didn't do they didn't have to do a hearing.

697
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: I think he just agreed to be extradited and he

698
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 1: has pleaded not guilty to the charges. The day after

699
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: his arrests, authorities searched his and Kendra's home, so they

700
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: ended up getting a search warrant based upon whatever information

701
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: they have from him about being you know what he

702
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: admitted to. The search involved child welfare officials and local police,

703
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: and both Joseph and Kendra were charged with four counts

704
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: of second degree child endangerment and four counts of second

705
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: degree false imprisonment. These charges were described as unrelated to

706
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: the Florida case. So basically they got a search warrant

707
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 1: based upon whatever they found out about it during this

708
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: forensic interview and what he admitted to. They searched his

709
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: house just recently house with his wife, Kendra. She is

710
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: now arrested. She gets arrested, and then they have a

711
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: new case opened up against them, probably from an Arkansas,

712
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: with four counts of child endangerment and four counts of

713
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: false imprisonment. Now I read that the false imprisonment had

714
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 1: to do with having locks on the kid's bedroom doors

715
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: that were on the outside, which meant that they could

716
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 1: lock the kids in bedrooms. Right, But I don't know

717
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: what the evidence was that related to the child in

718
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: endangermout charges and also what evidence suggested that even though

719
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: the locks were on the outside of the door, that

720
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 1: they were using them in a way that was abusive.

721
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: I don't know.

722
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 2: Well, false ambrisonment could only be a matter of a

723
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: second too, right, if someone wants to leave and you

724
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 2: say no, you can't leave, and you keep him there. Yeah,

725
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 2: I mean it could have been, you know, part of

726
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 2: the molestation process, right, holding someone and keeping them from

727
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: leaving the house and stuff like that.

728
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: Well, that doesn't have anything to do with a nine

729
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: year old girl because she didn't live in the house.

730
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: So these are new church has to do with his

731
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: own four children, right, Yeah, But.

732
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: I was just saying that it doesn't False imprisonment doesn't

733
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 2: necessarily mean you trap them in a basement and you

734
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 2: lock the doors. Yeah, it could simply be I wanted

735
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 2: to leave my bedroom and he stood in front of

736
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: the door wouldn't let me leave.

737
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: So a family spokesperson clarified that Kendra, this is the wife,

738
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: is not accused of any involvement in the Florida incident.

739
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: So that's just the husband, that's just Joseph. But she

740
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: was arrested under this new case where CPS came in

741
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: under that search warrant.

742
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 2: I'm picturing they searched the house, they see the locks.

743
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 2: Maybe the locks are suspicious because it's not typical the way.

744
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: It's well, they're usually on the inside, right, right, right.

745
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 2: But I'm saying, like, let's say it was obvious because

746
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 2: I don't I wouldn't think to look at the doorknobs

747
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 2: and see if they're like backwards. Yeah, so maybe it

748
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 2: was obvious enough. And they asked the children, and the

749
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 2: children simply say, yeah, sometimes I get locked in my

750
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 2: room and I'm not allowed to leave, right. But the

751
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 2: thing is, I mean, I don't want to defend any

752
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 2: of these people, but it it's like, well, that's not

753
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 2: that bad of a thing if you're just like saying

754
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 2: you have to stay in your room but I guess

755
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 2: if you lock them in the room, I don't know.

756
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 2: There must have been more details.

757
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: Right, So Kendra was released on bail shortly after her arrest.

758
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 1: Her bail was like fourteen hundred dollars or something, although

759
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: she will seemingly be separated from her four kids for

760
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 1: a month. According to this was an article on E News.

761
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: I did read that she separated for a month from

762
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: the kids. I'm not sure why. Maybe they're assessing the

763
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 1: kids for a month. Maybe they put him somewhere, or

764
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: maybe they have them with a foster family. I don't know,

765
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,839
Speaker 1: but so she's not with the kids for a month.

766
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: I also read that there were a lot of a

767
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: jail house what are they called recordings or whatever between

768
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: her and her husband, and she talks about how the

769
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: kids are her first priority. She just wants to get

770
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: the kids back, and also I believe in order to

771
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: continue to function because he is in jail, his bond's like,

772
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, his bonds like some ridiculous amount. She's

773
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: talking about how the kids are her main priority. He's

774
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: saying they should be. And then I think she said

775
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 1: something to the effect of like in regard to him,

776
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: like We'll have to figure that out later kind of thing,

777
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 1: like right now, the kids are yes, the kids are

778
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: our priority. Right Joseph remains in solitary confinement awaiting extradition.

779
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: So he has to be extradited because he's obviously going

780
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: to go to trial, I would assume unless he takes

781
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 1: a plea dealer or something in Florida. So Josh Duggar,

782
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: who is the oldest brother, not Joseph, who we've been

783
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 1: talking about recently, Josh, Josh's attorney told The Daily Mail

784
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: that he understands the stigma of being accused, and he

785
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: lives with the painful reality of how false accusations can

786
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 1: destroy a life. He understands how the targeting of a

787
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:48,240
Speaker 1: person for publicity can twist the truth into sensationalized fiction.

788
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: That sounds like Josh's attorney on behalf of Josh is

789
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 1: not taking accountability for the fact that he's spending twelve

790
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 1: years in prison because he had child pornography on his

791
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 1: computer and he also was accused of se abusing for

792
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: underage children. It's so gross, It's eh, it's.

793
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 2: I just why is it so like it's like an

794
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 2: overlapping crime for a lot of criminals, Like they also

795
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:14,720
Speaker 2: have child priority on their computer.

796
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess because they're just sick in

797
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: the head. And when you're sick like that, that's what

798
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: you do. I don't know. Jim, Bob and Michelle Dugger

799
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: his parents.

800
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 2: That's a good analysis.

801
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 1: I like that. Thank you. That was deep, wasn't it.

802
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: They're just sick in the head. Yeah, publicly called the

803
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: situation heartbreaking, emphasized supporting their family, particularly Josh's wife Kendra,

804
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: and their children, and said that they were praying for

805
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: the victim. Many of the other Dougger siblings have spoken

806
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: out condemning Josh's behavior. Oh, Kendra Dugger, we talk about

807
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,439
Speaker 1: this already in jail phone calls. Has said that she's

808
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: fighting for their children and discussed the emotional toll of

809
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 1: the situation. I also read that the house that they

810
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: live in she moved out by herself, like, moved everything

811
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: out of it because her plan is to rent out

812
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,919
Speaker 1: that house because she needs income because he's not working.

813
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: Right that part, I don't know. She's probably living with family. Well,

814
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: the kids were taken away, hopefully, I don't know. The

815
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: kids are taken away. I don't know if she'll be

816
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: able to get them back. I was going to say,

817
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: hopefully they're reunited with the mother, but then again, that's

818
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: hard for me because.

819
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 2: I don't know are they're in a situation that's best

820
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 2: for them.

821
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,879
Speaker 1: I don't know what the details are of what how

822
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 1: involved she was, and what this falsome prison and what

823
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: this endangerment was within their home. I don't know. But anyway,

824
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: she's renting out their home that they were living in

825
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 1: so that she has some income. So I guess that's

826
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 1: how she's going to try and survive until well, I

827
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know if they would get back together.

828
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: How do you I don't know how you continue on

829
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: with someone.

830
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 2: I don't know.

831
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: If I found out something like that about you, I

832
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: would not be like, we'll talk about this when you

833
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: get out of jail. I feel like anyone that is

834
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: attracted to anything that has to do with children is

835
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: not something I ever want to be associated with, have

836
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: a part of. And I don't feel like anyone can actually,

837
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: I mean, can you be cured from that? Ugh? I

838
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: don't know.

839
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: No.

840
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 1: No. Joseph is not the first Dugger family member involved

841
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: in abuse related allegations, and many responses referenced, repeated family trauma,

842
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 1: the importance of accountability and protecting children over preserving reputations.

843
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: All right, well that was a lot of updates, so anyway,

844
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 1: we will keep you informed if there's any other further

845
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: information in any of these cases that we've been talking about.

846
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: As always, please follow Legally Brunette. We have our own

847
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: feed also they We still have episodes that go into

848
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: two teas, so you can listen to us there. But

849
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: just a reminder, if you're listening to us in two teas,

850
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: you're not getting all of the episodes. We also have

851
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: all of our episodes on our own Legally Brunette feed,

852
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: so you can listen to us there. Thank you again

853
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: so much for listening. Please tell your friends and family

854
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: and also if you have any cases you would like

855
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: us to discuss. I love it when you guys send

856
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: me dms on Instagram. You always have such good information,

857
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: such good feedback. And also I've taken your recommendations a

858
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: lot of times, so you give me cases that I

859
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 1: hadn't heard of before, and some of them are very

860
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: very interesting. So thank you for always reaching out. I

861
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 1: appreciate it. So thanks for listening.