Speaker 1: Personally Feldsman.
Speaker 2: Y'all remember that song I Need a Little Help from
Speaker 2: my Friends. Well, that's what this next series is all about.
Speaker 2: This week, we're talking to Sabrina, the friendship Coach. She's
Speaker 2: sharing why friendship heartbreak hurts something bad and why low
Speaker 2: maintenance friendships really aren't a thing. Then next week, my
Speaker 2: best friends from over a decade joined. We recorded the
Speaker 2: episode when they were visiting Nashville on our yearly bestie trip,
Speaker 2: and one of them is my friend who I made
Speaker 2: via a guy we were both dating at the same time,
Speaker 2: which is a story for next week.
Speaker 1: So let's get into this chat with Sabrina.
Speaker 2: We've talked about a lot of friendships on this podcast,
Speaker 2: and I've had many of my friends on, but I
Speaker 2: think where this friendship coach really excels is her blutness
Speaker 2: and honesty for what happens in friendship, and that's why
Speaker 2: I'm bringing her on. Hi Spriena, thanks for joining me.
Speaker 1: Hi, thanks for having me. I'm super excited to be
Speaker 1: on your podcast.
Speaker 2: I love your content so fun to watch because I
Speaker 2: think there's so many different spaces within the friendship world
Speaker 2: when it comes to the coaches, and I really do
Speaker 2: believe where your bread and butter is being brutally honest
Speaker 2: and telling us the things that we need to hear.
Speaker 3: I try not to be brutally honest.
Speaker 1: I try to be as kind as possible with the truth,
Speaker 1: or at least like my opinion of how I see things.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm not trying to like hurt anyone's feelings.
Speaker 2: But no, brutally honest is a good thing. We're at
Speaker 2: a time and place right now where sometimes tough love
Speaker 2: is necessary. And I really feel like in the space
Speaker 2: that friendships are right now across the board is we're
Speaker 2: in some desperate need of some tough love.
Speaker 1: I think so too, to be honest, you see, And
Speaker 1: this is what we're talking about.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting because I do have an incredible group
Speaker 2: of friends. I have wonderful friends who have kept up
Speaker 2: and done all the right things, and they've maintained for
Speaker 2: several years, some even decades. But as you get older
Speaker 2: I'm thirty one now, time changes, things happen and life
Speaker 2: gets different, and especially when it comes to friendship. So
Speaker 2: why is that what's happening with friendships as we get older?
Speaker 1: I think it's part of it is intentionality, windles when
Speaker 1: you grow up with your friends, you're in the same environment,
Speaker 1: you're in proximity, whether that's school, whether that's like different
Speaker 1: hobbies or college. What ends up happening as we grow
Speaker 1: older is life happens, marriage, kids work, all of these
Speaker 1: like life moments, and we forget to put intention and
Speaker 1: more effort into keeping up with our friends. We coasted
Speaker 1: as kids just having people there, but we forget that
Speaker 1: we actually need to put in a little bit more
Speaker 1: effort when it comes to our friends.
Speaker 2: And when you say put in more effort, I would
Speaker 2: love to paint this picture of what effort can look
Speaker 2: like in friendships, because something that's a hot topic on
Speaker 2: social media right now is low maintenance friendships.
Speaker 3: Oh no, you hit me her.
Speaker 2: I know. So we'll get into that a little bit further,
Speaker 2: but show me a little bit what effort may look
Speaker 2: like in friendships before we dive into that very spicy topic.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think we confuse effort with constant communication versus
Speaker 1: consistent communication. I think everyone's frequency of communication differs. So
Speaker 1: for me, it could be every two weeks, reach out
Speaker 1: to me, let's chat. For you, it could be every month,
Speaker 1: every two months, three months, whatever it is, And I
Speaker 1: think that these conversations need to be had with our
Speaker 1: friends where we have a consistent frequency of communication. So,
Speaker 1: for example, if me and you were friends and we
Speaker 1: have this consistency of talking every month, then if you
Speaker 1: don't end up reaching out every month, then I start
Speaker 1: to wonder if everything's okay with you, And that's when
Speaker 1: I would reach out and be like, hey, are you okay?
Speaker 1: I haven't heard from you in over a month. But
Speaker 1: what people tend to confuse is that oh, we have
Speaker 1: to put in more effort where it's oh, I have
Speaker 1: to be there for you twenty four to seven, which
Speaker 1: is not the case.
Speaker 3: No one's asking for that. We are all too busy
Speaker 3: for that. We're all too overwhelmed and stressed for that.
Speaker 1: So it's about just having conversations with your friends as
Speaker 1: life grows on, as they have kids or whatever. The
Speaker 1: vibe is, what is a good communication for frequency for you?
Speaker 3: Do you want us to keep up?
Speaker 1: And I know that sounds redundant, but you know what,
Speaker 1: we have to schedule our friends in. It's like those
Speaker 1: text messages that we have with our friends.
Speaker 3: Hey what are you free?
Speaker 1: I'm free in March, I'm free in May, in April.
Speaker 1: But it's the same thing where it's like, hey, what
Speaker 1: kind of frequency do you want? Two weeks once a month?
Speaker 1: What is it that you want for us to keep
Speaker 1: this going? And we tend to not have these conversations unfortunately.
Speaker 2: It's funny. We like to be communicators, but that we
Speaker 2: don't communicate our needs and our desires very common word.
Speaker 2: It is awkward in a way, right because friendships we
Speaker 2: don't see in the same capacity as romantic relationships for
Speaker 2: some reason. But in romantic partnerships you have these conversations
Speaker 2: or you should be of this is what I need,
Speaker 2: These are what will keep me happy in this partnership.
Speaker 2: So why would that be any different in a friendship
Speaker 2: that was once a stranger and who's now not a stranger.
Speaker 2: It's the same kind of thing. You're just having a
Speaker 2: different type of love.
Speaker 3: It's true.
Speaker 1: And I know that is also a hot topic because
Speaker 1: a lot of us talk about it's a platonic relationship.
Speaker 1: It's not as significant as.
Speaker 3: A romantic one.
Speaker 1: But for me, at least from my opinion, whether it's
Speaker 1: romantic or platonic friendship is the basis, Yes, there's more
Speaker 1: when it comes to romantic relationship but I think the
Speaker 1: basis of it is that basic communication that you do
Speaker 1: with your partner, you should also do with your friends
Speaker 1: and whoever else is in your vicinity, Like it's the
Speaker 1: same with coworkers and your boss, Like you have to
Speaker 1: communicate unfortunately, in order to keep that relationship going.
Speaker 2: It's funny one of my newer friends that I've made
Speaker 2: as an adult, I really feel a different type of
Speaker 2: connection to her because we and we've had this conversation
Speaker 2: a few times where we're like, we've never had I
Speaker 2: had a friend who just would look out for us
Speaker 2: in this way or take pictures of us. That was
Speaker 2: one thing that we both noticed is we want to
Speaker 2: take pictures of each other all the time. And we
Speaker 2: always felt like we were in friendships that were super
Speaker 2: one sided in that that we were both performing a
Speaker 2: certain way and the other friend wasn't. And it was
Speaker 2: this kind of realization for both of us, especially at
Speaker 2: this point in our life, where Huh, that shouldn't be
Speaker 2: happening for the first time, but it is. Do you
Speaker 2: see that happen often when you're talking to people as
Speaker 2: they get older and just understanding the things that they
Speaker 2: want out of friendships.
Speaker 1: More, Yes, I'm pretty sure we can all agree that
Speaker 1: the things that we wanted in our younger years is
Speaker 1: not the same things that we want in our adult years.
Speaker 1: And that's the same when it comes to friendships.
Speaker 3: We grow, we want.
Speaker 1: Different types of friends, and it's okay to want different things,
Speaker 1: and we want and hope that our friends grow with
Speaker 1: us at least like that's the goal. But unfortunately, sometimes
Speaker 1: it's looking at it from an outside lens and realizing
Speaker 1: that we're not as compatible as we used to be.
Speaker 3: And that's okay.
Speaker 1: Maybe at this point in time we need to go
Speaker 1: our separate ways. Maybe we'll find each other in the
Speaker 1: later years, but sometimes it can hurt. It's not the
Speaker 1: greatest situation to be in when.
Speaker 2: You mentioned that, And something that really hurts in friendships
Speaker 2: is the friendship breakup that happens. It's super painful, and
Speaker 2: I don't think it gets enough credit for how hard
Speaker 2: it is. There's been friends over the course of my
Speaker 2: life who I've lost, whether they got into relationships or
Speaker 2: marriages and they just stopped being the friend that I
Speaker 2: once had, and naturally, because I wanted a very solid
Speaker 2: friendship that moved away and it didn't happen. Anymore because
Speaker 2: they weren't the person that when we first became friends.
Speaker 2: They couldn't provide that anymore for whatever reason, and it
Speaker 2: was really painful. And there's moments where it's really painful
Speaker 2: and you really miss them and you just want to
Speaker 2: talk to them, but you also have to have this
Speaker 2: level of respect for yourself. So can we dive into
Speaker 2: the friendship breakup?
Speaker 1: Friendship breakups are honestly, in my opinion, more painful than
Speaker 1: any romantic relationship breakup ever, and it's probably because we've
Speaker 1: never been taught how to handle a friendship breakup. Like
Speaker 1: when it comes to romantic relationships, we all know, okay,
Speaker 1: we're going into it. We're seeing if this person's compatible
Speaker 1: with us, we're seeing if they're long term, and we
Speaker 1: know eventually there's going to be a breakup if ever.
Speaker 1: But when it comes to friends, we think to ourselves,
Speaker 1: they're going to be in our life forever until we
Speaker 1: grow old and we're in wheelchairs. But it's it's like
Speaker 1: a difficult place to be when you're going through that
Speaker 1: because sometimes it's just pure growth. Sometimes you just drift
Speaker 1: part because you're in different life life cycles and you're
Speaker 1: going one way there going another way, and there's no
Speaker 1: animosity there. It's just like life happens and we have
Speaker 1: to drift apart and we can't keep holding on for
Speaker 1: dear life when it's not working. Other parts of it
Speaker 1: can be harsh and cruel, where I've heard a lot
Speaker 1: of clients tell me about friends that have done terrible
Speaker 1: things like sleeping with their fiances and just horrible things.
Speaker 1: So that's also like part of it. And I think
Speaker 1: also another portion of it that's become very relevant is
Speaker 1: quiet quitting friendships or ghosting.
Speaker 3: I'm not a fan of it.
Speaker 1: I would only say it's okay to do that if
Speaker 1: you're in danger. If you've attempted to communicate with somebody
Speaker 1: over and over again and they just continue to disrespect you, yeah,
Speaker 1: then cut them off. But I've seen a lot of
Speaker 1: friendships where people see their friends like their toys and
Speaker 1: with them, enjoy them for a good little abount of time,
Speaker 1: and then discard them and ghost and don't say anything,
Speaker 1: and you can feel icky, Wow, this person was all
Speaker 1: excited to be my friend, and now suddenly I don't
Speaker 1: hear from them.
Speaker 3: They throw me away.
Speaker 1: And then sometimes when you confront that, you get the
Speaker 1: narrative of oh, I don't owe you anything, and that
Speaker 1: really sucks.
Speaker 3: That really sucks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so many different painful steps to that friendship breakup.
Speaker 2: To your point, there's just many different levels, and none
Speaker 2: of them get easier, especially even with time. You think,
Speaker 2: as you get older, you just and you learn. I
Speaker 2: don't feel like they've ever gotten easier, even especially as
Speaker 2: an adult. I feel like it's more painful because when
Speaker 2: you watch your circle get smaller, you know that it's
Speaker 2: important because you're getting these quality friendships, but watching it
Speaker 2: get smaller feels like you have to grieve an entire
Speaker 2: life that's ending.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's also you second guess yourself too, because
Speaker 1: as you grow up, at least I know, in our
Speaker 1: femininity and with womenhood, our friends.
Speaker 3: Make up a big part of that.
Speaker 1: And when you see your friends trickle away, it kills
Speaker 1: a little bit of your girlhood inside and it makes
Speaker 1: you feel like am I.
Speaker 3: Good enough? Am I worthy?
Speaker 1: All these friends just keep leaving and disappearing? Is there
Speaker 1: something wrong with me? And it's a very difficult place
Speaker 1: to be in when you start to feel that way.
Speaker 2: And I can also speak from an experience of some
Speaker 2: trauma when I was in high school, I was bullied
Speaker 2: by girls who were once my friends, and that experience
Speaker 2: in high school really dictated how friendships looked for me
Speaker 2: for a really long time. So you see some clients
Speaker 2: come in who have trauma like this, and building friendships
Speaker 2: just becomes an increasingly harder situation than just your day
Speaker 2: to day life.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, and I can relate to that very much.
Speaker 1: Having your best friend be your bully not the greatest experience.
Speaker 1: But I think we're also taught in society in the
Speaker 1: shows that we grow up when that having that toxic
Speaker 1: best friend and no matter what they do, you still
Speaker 1: have to be best friends with them at the end.
Speaker 1: Take Gossip Girl for example, it's like Serena and Blair
Speaker 1: are best friends, but they're horrible to each other. They
Speaker 1: do horrible things, sabotage gossip, go behind each other's backs
Speaker 1: and just stab each other like figuratively, of course.
Speaker 2: And then you have mean girls where they push each
Speaker 2: other in front of buses. So there's that.
Speaker 1: Too, allegedly, But we grow up watching this and then
Speaker 1: it's subconsciously drilled into our heads that we have to
Speaker 1: tolerate bad behaviors from our friends and then when we
Speaker 1: grow older, we start to realize, oh, we shouldn't be
Speaker 1: doing that, and it becomes like this thing where we're
Speaker 1: fighting ourselves. We're building standards for ourselves.
Speaker 3: We don't want to.
Speaker 1: Accept bad behavior from people anymore, whether it's romantic or friendship,
Speaker 1: and then we're fighting ourselves because we've been taught to
Speaker 1: accept everyone's flaws and taught to accept all these bad behaviors.
Speaker 3: So where's the line? And that's what I'm trying to
Speaker 3: teach here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it is because so much of my relearning
Speaker 2: experience from high school and dealing with these friends who
Speaker 2: I had sleepovers with and we talk to each other
Speaker 2: about everything to one day just slipping on a dime
Speaker 2: and saying horrible things and doing horrible things to me
Speaker 2: that I had to teach myself a new pattern of friendship.
Speaker 2: And as a sixteen year old girl to eighteen to
Speaker 2: then in her early twenties and joining a sorority in college,
Speaker 2: the emotional ways that my brain went through having friends
Speaker 2: was just beyond me. Like I look back at the
Speaker 2: time of my life and I'm like, how did I
Speaker 2: even do that? Because my brain was genuinely trying to
Speaker 2: develop at the same time I was being rejected and
Speaker 2: bullied and then also okay, by the way, you have
Speaker 2: to throw yourself into an completely new city and make
Speaker 2: new friends while trusting that they're actually gonna be kind
Speaker 2: to you and not do the same thing to you.
Speaker 1: Again, true, that's a lot of us are experienced too,
Speaker 1: same thing in college. Same thing.
Speaker 3: It's learning who you are.
Speaker 1: You don't know who you are, you don't know anything
Speaker 1: about yourself, and then on top of that, trying to
Speaker 1: figure out romantically who you like, hoping that that person's
Speaker 1: not toxic. Then trying to figure out friendships, and yeah,
Speaker 1: dealing with friends that are mean to you and bully
Speaker 1: to you, but at the same time trying to find
Speaker 1: good long term friendships. And it's very overwhelming.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like this is why friendship gets the
Speaker 2: low on the totem pole, because life is so overwhelming,
Speaker 2: and then friendship you just pushed to the side because
Speaker 2: it's the easy thing that you can always go after
Speaker 2: at another time, and it just keeps getting knocked down
Speaker 2: a few pegs because of this process of us being
Speaker 2: so overwhelmed with life.
Speaker 1: I think yes and no, But I also think that
Speaker 1: we've been conditioned to prioritize other things in our life.
Speaker 1: And we've also been conditioned that boys may come and go,
Speaker 1: but friends are forever.
Speaker 3: So you sit there waiting for your.
Speaker 1: Friend to come back around, and it's just a waiting game,
Speaker 1: and you start to tolerate behaviors that you would not
Speaker 1: accept anywhere else. So, yeah, when things are convenient, people
Speaker 1: put it in the back burner. They forget about it
Speaker 1: because you'll always be there at the end of the day.
Speaker 2: And this now leads me into the hot topic of
Speaker 2: low maintenance friendships. So give me your hot take. Low
Speaker 2: maintenance friendships. We're seeing all over the internet people are
Speaker 2: creating all kinds of reels about how they love their
Speaker 2: low maintenance friends.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: So a lot of the clients that I've had also
Speaker 1: different people on TikTok that I've talked to about low
Speaker 1: maintenance friendships. When I ask them, what is a low
Speaker 1: maintenance friendship to you, everything they bring back to me
Speaker 1: is things that I would consider a normal friendship. And
Speaker 1: all you're doing is maintaining that friendship. You. In order
Speaker 1: to gain a friendship, you need to have a base,
Speaker 1: a foundation where you meet that person, you hang out
Speaker 1: for quite a while. You build, start to get to
Speaker 1: know them, you start to love them, they love you. You
Speaker 1: hang out a lot, a lot of secrets are spilled,
Speaker 1: live life with each other, and then time moves on
Speaker 1: and things change, and of course you can't be communicating
Speaker 1: all the time. No one's asking for twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1: But you still keep up with your friends, even if it's.
Speaker 3: Once a month. You're like, hey, how's it going.
Speaker 1: Let me text you, let me tell you about my day,
Speaker 1: let me tell you the news.
Speaker 3: And people are.
Speaker 1: Referring to that as low maintenance friendships, when I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: that's just maintaining the friendship.
Speaker 3: As you should. That's just a friendship period.
Speaker 1: Like this whole narrative of low and high friendships is,
Speaker 1: it's confusing, and it's confusing people, and it's also allowing
Speaker 1: a lot of manipulative people come in and take advantage
Speaker 1: of those terms where they come in and say, oh,
Speaker 1: I want a low maintenance friendship so that they don't
Speaker 1: have to put in work. It's a friendship on their terms.
Speaker 1: It's I show up whenever I need to show up,
Speaker 1: whenever it's convenient for me. And you can't say anything
Speaker 1: because if you do, I'm going to call you high maintenance, and.
Speaker 3: It's a power struggle.
Speaker 1: I don't think friendship should be leveled at low or high.
Speaker 3: It just should be equal. It's a balancing game.
Speaker 1: And if you're low and the other one's high, then
Speaker 1: there's a power struggle and you're probably not compatible and
Speaker 1: you probably shouldn't be friends. So there's no such thing
Speaker 1: as a low maintenance friendship. It's just a friendship that
Speaker 1: you are maintaining at a pace that you are comfortable with,
Speaker 1: that you and your friend have agreed upon.
Speaker 3: And that's all it is.
Speaker 1: And the rest of it is just a way to
Speaker 1: avoid emotional responsible ability, avoid accountability, and to shift the
Speaker 1: blame on somebody else that's actually asking for consistency.
Speaker 3: That's all.
Speaker 2: That's a mic draft hot take, and I love it
Speaker 2: because I agree when you sit here and explain it
Speaker 2: that way. I agree. Because you think of a relationship,
Speaker 2: and as you stay with a person, you get more
Speaker 2: comfortable with them, and life becomes easy and communication becomes
Speaker 2: easy because you're used to this life with this person.
Speaker 2: The same thing is happening in friendships. But we're not
Speaker 2: calling relationships low maintenance relationships. No, no, But here we
Speaker 2: are doing it to friendships.
Speaker 1: It's because I guess it gots skewed somewhere where it's Oh,
Speaker 1: I don't have to constantly be on top of my friend.
Speaker 3: Which I think is good. That's healthy. Like you're not
Speaker 3: supposed to be on top.
Speaker 1: Of your friend being like, hey, when are you texting
Speaker 1: me back?
Speaker 3: Why haven't you answered?
Speaker 2: I think we have bigger problems there.
Speaker 1: Yes, And if you have to do that, maybe you
Speaker 1: need to revisit whether this friendship dynamic is good for
Speaker 1: you or not, because if they're ignoring you, maybe we
Speaker 1: shouldn't be friends.
Speaker 3: That's all. But people that are friends, you don't have
Speaker 3: to talk every day.
Speaker 1: You just have to be consistently there for each other,
Speaker 1: no matter how that looks. For your relationship, that's between
Speaker 1: you and that friend.
Speaker 3: And that's it.
Speaker 2: And here we're gonna continue some hot takes. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: tell you a few thoughts that I have, and I
Speaker 2: want to know your opinion. Okay, if you are in
Speaker 2: a relationship, you should always make time with your friends
Speaker 2: outside of that relationship. Even if you hang out with
Speaker 2: that partner and your friend, you should also make time
Speaker 2: for solo time with your friend.
Speaker 3: Amen.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you preach. I feel like this is so
Speaker 2: important that I don't understand why I have to keep
Speaker 2: saying this. But you can have a life outside of
Speaker 2: your partner with your friends.
Speaker 1: You should have a life outside your partner with your friend,
Speaker 1: and if you do not, then we need to talk
Speaker 1: about that some way, somehow, because if you're already your
Speaker 1: independent self before a man comes in or whoever your
Speaker 1: preference is, you cannot just completely neglect your individual self
Speaker 1: and everything that makes you you, including your friends.
Speaker 3: Once the romantic.
Speaker 1: Box has been checked, this person cannot be your entirety.
Speaker 1: And I think that kind of happens way too much,
Speaker 1: where we're striving so much to get married, to find
Speaker 1: the one, and then once we do.
Speaker 3: It's like, all right, now what.
Speaker 1: I don't have any friends because I didn't keep up
Speaker 1: with them. I don't have any individual self because I
Speaker 1: haven't taken.
Speaker 3: Care of myself.
Speaker 1: I don't have any hobbies, I don't know what to do,
Speaker 1: and then depression hits.
Speaker 2: It's a vicious cycle that we get into. So thank you,
Speaker 2: hot take. Yes, we're on the same page. This other
Speaker 2: one is that you should be there for your friends,
Speaker 2: not just when times are very tough, but especially when
Speaker 2: times are very good. Yes, I think showing up for
Speaker 2: both is what makes a good friend, because there's this
Speaker 2: belief in my eyes that if all you can do
Speaker 2: is show up for the bad times, are you here
Speaker 2: to see that I failed? Or are you really here
Speaker 2: to be there for me? If you're not here in
Speaker 2: any other time of my life, but this is the
Speaker 2: only time. Why, That's how exactly that's how I view that.
Speaker 2: And then but if you can't show up for me
Speaker 2: in the good times, and you're celebrating me like I
Speaker 2: had a big party when I started this podcast with
Speaker 2: my friends. I did a big dinner and everybody who
Speaker 2: shut it up. I was so thankful because me getting
Speaker 2: married or having a baby or no, it was me
Speaker 2: just creating a podcast. But I wanted to celebrate it
Speaker 2: because it was important to me, and they showed up
Speaker 2: and celebrated it like it was my birthday.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 2: See, And this is like my hot take because I
Speaker 2: think a lot of people feel like when they have
Speaker 2: a friend who shows up in the dark times, that's
Speaker 2: a great friend. But I just do they also show
Speaker 2: up in both so.
Speaker 1: Thoughts, Yes, one hundred percent, I think they need to
Speaker 1: show up in both, Like you cannot have a friend
Speaker 1: that only shows up for you in the darkest times,
Speaker 1: because sooner or later they're conditioned to see you in
Speaker 1: your lowest point. And some people get a kick out
Speaker 1: of it. It sucks, but they get a kick out
Speaker 1: of watching someone have it worse than they do. And
Speaker 1: it sucks to realize that in a friend that you
Speaker 1: really love and care about, But you have to pay
Speaker 1: attention to whether they're there to celebrate you or not.
Speaker 3: And if they're not there.
Speaker 1: To pull you out of the muck, clean you off,
Speaker 1: and then be like.
Speaker 3: You're out of there, let's go get drinks.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a good friend.
Speaker 3: And I think we agree on that.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 4: See, these are hot takes though, and I don't I
Speaker 4: just wish they weren't. I know, I don't understand why
Speaker 4: these are like controversial beliefs in friendships, but they are.
Speaker 2: And I think it's also really easy for things to
Speaker 2: get lost in life and you just make sure, oh,
Speaker 2: my friend's going through it. I need to make sure
Speaker 2: I'm there, But you also need to make sure you're
Speaker 2: there in the mundane and the normal, and also not
Speaker 2: forgetting about your friend when you decide to find a
Speaker 2: boyfriend or a girlfriend. YEH think those are a reasonable
Speaker 2: ass of a friend.
Speaker 3: I think that's a reasonable ask.
Speaker 2: Yes. And speaking of these high value because you know what,
Speaker 2: we're putting this on high value friends. This is what
Speaker 2: high value friends do. You had done a content piece
Speaker 2: on social media where you're talking about the three behaviors
Speaker 2: of high val value friends you should be looking for.
Speaker 2: And I'm so curious like to detail what these are
Speaker 2: because when you are an adult, making friends is hard
Speaker 2: and finding the right friends is also hard. So what
Speaker 2: should we be looking for?
Speaker 1: I think you need to figure out exactly what you're
Speaker 1: looking for in a friend, exactly what you're looking for.
Speaker 1: It's the same as you're looking for the one or
Speaker 1: your romantic partner.
Speaker 3: You have a list.
Speaker 1: I want him to have this, and I want this,
Speaker 1: I want this, kind of the same with your friends.
Speaker 3: But the problem that we end up doing is we.
Speaker 1: Hang out with someone and we pick them because their
Speaker 1: vibe is cool, and we're like, oh, we mesh really well,
Speaker 1: they're my friend, and then whatever attributes or characteristics you
Speaker 1: have created in your head, that's a friend for me,
Speaker 1: for example, a friend to me is honest, accountable, loyal.
Speaker 1: So I pick someone I'm like, they have a cool vibe,
Speaker 1: they're my friend. I automatically think to myself, Oh, they
Speaker 1: have to be honest, to loyal and accountable. Have they
Speaker 1: proven that to me? No? I just met this person,
Speaker 1: we just hung out few times. Their vibe is cool, okay,
Speaker 1: But do I know anything about the characteristics. No? And
Speaker 1: then later down the line we end up finding out
Speaker 1: the hard way that this person's not honest and they're
Speaker 1: a little bit of a liar, or they're disloyal, or
Speaker 1: they can't hold themselves accountable for anything.
Speaker 3: And then we go.
Speaker 1: Into a huge cycle of having to do the difficult thing,
Speaker 1: which is falling out of love with someone that you
Speaker 1: care about and having to remove them from your life,
Speaker 1: which is not easy. So I think it's a lot
Speaker 1: easier to start to vet your friends first, figure out
Speaker 1: your standards, figure out your non negotiables before you get
Speaker 1: into a long term friendship with someone that you don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really important, and it's also just a great
Speaker 2: to have for all your things in life. Know what
Speaker 2: you're going after, know what you want. It's something that
Speaker 2: you can use interchangeably for so many different things, so
Speaker 2: why should it be any different with friends. We really
Speaker 2: like to change the game when it comes to friendships.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know why.
Speaker 1: But also I'm trying to also change the narrative behind
Speaker 1: it's difficult to make friends. I don't think it's difficult
Speaker 1: to make friends.
Speaker 3: There are a.
Speaker 1: Lot of us out there that love to talk about friendship,
Speaker 1: that are looking for genuine friendship. Of course there are outliers,
Speaker 1: but I think it's also a mentality of how to
Speaker 1: go in it. If you're going into it with a
Speaker 1: desperate energy or with the mentality of it's really hard
Speaker 1: to make friends, you're gonna have a really hard time
Speaker 1: making friends, Or if you go into it saying, you
Speaker 1: know what, I know who I am. I know I'm
Speaker 1: a valuable friend, and whoever comes into my life and
Speaker 1: really wants to be my friend not to.
Speaker 3: Be like too much, but they're blessed.
Speaker 1: And it's that thought process. And I had to do
Speaker 1: that myself, moving to a new place and doing the
Speaker 1: bumblebff thing. I was terrified, but then I was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, No, I've healed, I've grown, i know
Speaker 1: what I'm looking for and I'm going to go in
Speaker 1: it and be strategic.
Speaker 3: And I met a lot of good girls.
Speaker 1: I also met a lot of flaky girls, and nothing
Speaker 1: against them. I don't hate them, but it's like, you're
Speaker 1: not my cup of tea. That's okay, I'll go for
Speaker 1: the champagne.
Speaker 2: Over here and correct me if I'm wrong. But a
Speaker 2: lot of my experience I was someone who moved to
Speaker 2: a new city, created an entire life for myself, and
Speaker 2: a lot of the questions that I always get here,
Speaker 2: how do you do it? How do you make friends?
Speaker 2: It's so hard. Here's all of this, and so much
Speaker 2: of where I made friends and where I really thrived
Speaker 2: was one myself out there in the first place. It's
Speaker 2: just like with dating. You have to put yourself out there.
Speaker 2: I know, we all want to meet people on our
Speaker 2: couch and that's how life works. No, it's not. You
Speaker 2: actually have to put yourself out there and go and
Speaker 2: do life. Be living life and to just be open
Speaker 2: to it, be open that a friends can come anywhere.
Speaker 2: It's how The friend that I mentioned, who I made
Speaker 2: as a really good friend in the last year, came
Speaker 2: from me trying out a new gym by myself. She
Speaker 2: was a trainer there and we would just talk every
Speaker 2: time I came in, and over the course of time,
Speaker 2: I went through a bad breakup and she was like,
Speaker 2: let's go get a sandwich. You don't look like you've
Speaker 2: eat very much. And from then on we became best friends.
Speaker 2: And that was so unexpected and not anything that I
Speaker 2: was looking for or needed. But I was open to it,
Speaker 2: and I was willing to create a new friend because
Speaker 2: I was just always in this space that you can
Speaker 2: never have enough friends, you can never have enough love
Speaker 2: in your life. And so much of me being an
Speaker 2: adult and creating the life that I've created in a
Speaker 2: city that I didn't know a single soul is because
Speaker 2: of those two things.
Speaker 1: Oh, this is just such a beautiful story, honestly, and
Speaker 1: it's so true too.
Speaker 3: It's so true.
Speaker 1: You have to be open to finding friends. You can't
Speaker 1: tell yourself it's hard. I'm never gonna find friends because
Speaker 1: you're going into it from a place of loneliness. And
Speaker 1: when your energy is in a place of loneliness, you're
Speaker 1: not really going to find quality people.
Speaker 3: You're going to get.
Speaker 1: That type of energy back, and it's not a good
Speaker 1: place to be.
Speaker 3: I think how to make new friends.
Speaker 1: Is like you said, you have to do things that
Speaker 1: you would normally do for yourself hobbies. Like I met
Speaker 1: a girl through Pilate's class, and it was stupid. All
Speaker 1: I did was give her a towel. I was like,
Speaker 1: she's like looking around. I was like, do you need
Speaker 1: a towel, Yeah, okay, I'll grab you one. Grab her
Speaker 1: a towel, give her a towel. Boom we started talking.
Speaker 1: See it can be that simple. You just have to
Speaker 1: show up, go to places that you want to go
Speaker 1: to be consistent about it, because if you show up
Speaker 1: only once every six months, the people that are regulars
Speaker 1: aren't going to get to know you. Show up, be present,
Speaker 1: do the things that you like to do and you enjoy,
Speaker 1: and you'll find like minded people.
Speaker 2: And you'll also find this basis that maybe you don't
Speaker 2: want to be in. You might go and try a
Speaker 2: new place and be like, I've been doing this for
Speaker 2: a while and I just really can't quite seem to
Speaker 2: stick here. I feel like I should try something new,
Speaker 2: and you should. If that's the way that it feels.
Speaker 2: There's a reason for that, Yep, exactly.
Speaker 1: But that's also part of learning who you are.
Speaker 3: And what you like. And it's the same when it
Speaker 3: comes to friends.
Speaker 1: You got to go out there, talk to a bunch
Speaker 1: of people, learn what you're looking for in a friend.
Speaker 3: And it just because you don't they don't vibe with you.
Speaker 1: Or they're not your cup of tea, doesn't make them
Speaker 1: a bad person, doesn't make you a horrible person.
Speaker 3: For choosing them.
Speaker 1: It's just you need to find your people.
Speaker 2: That's all it is. It is. And I wanted to
Speaker 2: ask you because we did talk about hot takes a
Speaker 2: little bit, but and I shared some of mine. I
Speaker 2: made you share one of yours about low maintenance. Do
Speaker 2: you have any other hot takes about friendship? Because I
Speaker 2: feel like this is where it's fun and sometimes again
Speaker 2: we just need a little tough love.
Speaker 1: I feel like the basic ones we've hit when it
Speaker 1: comes to friends, ditching you for another romantic person.
Speaker 3: I don't think that's okay.
Speaker 1: I think also ghosting your friends, I don't think that's
Speaker 1: good behavior. You should not have to disappear for months
Speaker 1: at a time and then expect everything to be there
Speaker 1: and convenient for you. Once you decide it's convenient for
Speaker 1: you to show back up. Sometimes, just in friendships, just
Speaker 1: like in relationship. You got to do the hard things.
Speaker 1: If you're struggling, you need to communicate that your friends
Speaker 1: are not mind readers. They don't know what's going on
Speaker 1: in your head. And if you're really in a place
Speaker 1: where you're struggling, communicate that and give them the opportunity
Speaker 1: to support you, to help you through it so that
Speaker 1: you're not alone. But I tend to see a lot
Speaker 1: of it where people just ghost disappear, don't communicate. Their
Speaker 1: friends are texting them like, hey, what's going on. You're
Speaker 1: not answering like are you okay? They don't hear anything,
Speaker 1: and then you pop back in and you expect everything
Speaker 1: to be good and dandy, and then you're mad at
Speaker 1: them for being mad at you for disappearing, and it's.
Speaker 3: A vicious cycle. And I don't think it's okay.
Speaker 1: And I think it's okay to hold your friends accountable
Speaker 1: if they're going through those ghosting spells, And like, you
Speaker 1: wouldn't let a man back into your life if he's
Speaker 1: ghosted you for months, Why are you going to allow
Speaker 1: that same treatment from your friends?
Speaker 2: It is Hey, ghosting is never a good thing. Honestly,
Speaker 2: it's one of the worst things we can do to people.
Speaker 2: And the only time I've ever approved of it is
Speaker 2: if you've taken a lot of effort to really try
Speaker 2: and put into something and it's just not being heard.
Speaker 2: You just have to back away sometimes and let life happen.
Speaker 2: And if you're supposed to have that conversation, then it'll
Speaker 2: come to fruition. But that's truly the only time where
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's okay if you need to disappear. Beyond that,
Speaker 2: we're adults, we're supposed to have conversations, agreed.
Speaker 1: I think you can disappear, go no contact if you're
Speaker 1: really in danger this person's not okay, do what you
Speaker 1: need to do to protect yourself. Or you've attempted to
Speaker 1: communicate on multiple occasions, You've attempted to set boundaries on
Speaker 1: multiple occasions, the person just doesn't want to change, they
Speaker 1: don't want to respect back to your boundaries, then it's
Speaker 1: okay to just end it. But at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, that's to me, is not ghosting, because ghosters
Speaker 1: tend to always come back.
Speaker 2: They do. They're on this little rotation of the earth
Speaker 2: cycle or something.
Speaker 1: To me, that's going no contact, that's the end of
Speaker 1: a relationship. You're not going back to that person because
Speaker 1: you've had enough.
Speaker 3: Is enough if you had enough.
Speaker 1: But ghosters tend to they get a high from disappearing
Speaker 1: and coming back and just having people that they pluck
Speaker 1: and having friendship on their terms.
Speaker 3: And I go back.
Speaker 1: To people using people like their toys. Oh, I'm bored
Speaker 1: with this toy, Chuck, Let's use this truck.
Speaker 2: Apparently we're in toy story and who is the child
Speaker 2: that they're out all the toys?
Speaker 3: I don't know the evil one.
Speaker 2: There was a few of them and they just kept
Speaker 2: getting like discarded. So basically we're discarded Toy story toys.
Speaker 1: Horrible.
Speaker 2: I know it is, but you know what, the toy
Speaker 2: story toys have great lives. So that means that we
Speaker 2: can all also have good lives and make new friends.
Speaker 2: That's exactly what that means.
Speaker 1: Yes, and the discarded toys always end up getting saved
Speaker 1: and make great friendships.
Speaker 2: Yep, exactly, So life happens on the other side of it.
Speaker 2: This is what we're paying attention to. Sabrina. I'm so
Speaker 2: happy that you came on. I like to end the
Speaker 2: podcast with whether it be a piece of advice, motivation, inspiration,
Speaker 2: or just something that maybe we didn't even get to
Speaker 2: an address and you just want to talk about it,
Speaker 2: but the platform might serve over to you and say,
Speaker 2: end us on something that you'd like to end us on.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's see drum roll please, Okay. I think that
Speaker 1: each one of us should know that we are enough
Speaker 1: and we're never asking for too much.
Speaker 3: We're women. We can do it all.
Speaker 1: Career, romantic relationships, family, we can do it all. Why
Speaker 1: not friendships so we can have amazing friends in our life.
Speaker 1: We can have the career that we dream of, we
Speaker 1: can have the man that we dream of, or whatever
Speaker 1: our preferences, and we can honestly have it all. So
Speaker 1: don't think you're asking for too much, because you're not.
Speaker 1: You're just building the whole package for your life. And
Speaker 1: That's where I'm going to end it.
Speaker 2: I love it. See, this is why we turn it
Speaker 2: over because it's always a fun little thing to end on.
Speaker 2: So Sabrina, thank you for joining me, Thanks for sharing
Speaker 2: your expertise and taking some time to hang out.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 2: Tough love is important, and this episode feels like it
Speaker 2: reminded us all what we deserve in every relationship in
Speaker 2: our lives, but particularly with friendships. So go out today
Speaker 2: and be a good friend. Call or send a tex
Speaker 2: to that friend who means everything to you always. I'm
Speaker 2: so happy you're here. I can't wait for y'all to
Speaker 2: hear the Girl Chat in coming next week. Love you bye,