WEBVTT - "Prolonged Divorce" w/ Torrey Peters

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<v Speaker 1>Podcast starts. Now, what's up everyone around the globe. You're

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<v Speaker 1>listening to Stradio Lab from a windowless room in Times Square.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. Welcome to TRL.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to TRL. I can hear and sink A bumping

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<v Speaker 1>their new hit downstairs.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is our final day of a full week

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<v Speaker 2>of Stradio Lab content.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and a NonStop I feel wistful. I know.

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<v Speaker 2>We've recorded four episodes, We've done a live show. It

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<v Speaker 2>was our first ever Lesbian Lab live show, all queer

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<v Speaker 2>woman lineup, and instead of straight topics, they brought lesbian topics. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>and we learned about we can say what the three

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<v Speaker 2>topics were to say them? Okay, self cancelation. So this

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<v Speaker 2>is when you are a lesbian and you start a

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<v Speaker 2>small business sort of with the intention of being canceled

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<v Speaker 2>for having bad labor practices.

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<v Speaker 1>You get like one complaint and then decide to go on,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 2>To that's right. And it's also like starting a business

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<v Speaker 2>is actually more of a means to an end, the

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<v Speaker 2>end being getting a conversation going. Yeah, so you want

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<v Speaker 2>like a Reddit thread, you want people saying, like thread

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<v Speaker 2>the truth about you know, black Cat coffee. So that

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<v Speaker 2>was one. Hats was a second topic. So we learned

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<v Speaker 2>about flat rim hats and about hey Mama lesbians, and

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<v Speaker 2>about how different hats the further back in your head

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<v Speaker 2>of bean egoes, the less queer you are. That is

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<v Speaker 2>something that was I think positive. Yeah, that was positive

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<v Speaker 2>and proven and proven. And then the final topic that

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<v Speaker 2>this was the most interesting to me. You want to

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<v Speaker 2>say what it was?

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<v Speaker 1>It was porn. This was Ntalie Robert Lightman, and it

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<v Speaker 1>was porn as a lesbian export, as pizza is to Italians.

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<v Speaker 2>So she was yes, and so you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, it's not necessarily always made by Italians, just like

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<v Speaker 1>lesbian wan was isn't always made by lesbians, and yet

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<v Speaker 1>it's how most people interact with lesbian culture.

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<v Speaker 2>This was fascinating to me because I am so you know,

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<v Speaker 2>liberal arts pilled that. I thought the topic was like feminist.

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<v Speaker 1>You're you're I have to say, your Ivy League education

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<v Speaker 1>was showing pejorative. I was. It was very I have

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<v Speaker 1>to say, it was like rich, it was sort of cam.

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<v Speaker 1>It was Kamala coded.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, thank you for the class analysis. First of all,

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<v Speaker 2>I really liberal. I appreciate it, and I'm self canceling

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<v Speaker 2>in a lesbian way for my privilege because.

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<v Speaker 1>I heard porn as our greate sector. I said, I

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<v Speaker 1>know exactly what you're talking.

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<v Speaker 2>And in retrospect, I completely understand what she was saying.

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<v Speaker 2>She was saying the sort of male gays lesbian poor

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<v Speaker 2>and literally the poster of two women kissing them guys

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<v Speaker 2>have in their dorms. Yeah, that is like, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>that's like an art cultural export of lesbianism that people

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<v Speaker 2>from all can unities can understand. What I heard was like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, sort of queer non binary porn where then

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<v Speaker 2>all the performers also give a talk at Oberlin and

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<v Speaker 2>the and then the talk is like and then there's

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<v Speaker 2>like people asking questions at the talk and they're like

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<v Speaker 2>holding space.

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<v Speaker 1>It was really funny. You were like, oh, porn stars,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, like people that do talks at colleges university

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<v Speaker 1>And it's like, I really don't think that's what it is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I love that.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a beautiful it's a beautiful perspective that you bring.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you know what that also is a lesbian

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<v Speaker 2>cultural expert. It's just as like a less successful one

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<v Speaker 2>because it hasn't really reached the heights of the sort

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<v Speaker 2>of more male gayzyya.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was in the pizza metaphor you were forgetting

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<v Speaker 1>sort of about dominoes.

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<v Speaker 2>I was thinking more like Roberta's kind of a hot

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<v Speaker 2>honey and sage, whereas Natalie was saying like pep baroni.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I want to say and I.

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<v Speaker 2>Do want to actually shout out. So our friend Andrew

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<v Speaker 2>long Cheu was supposed to do the show ended up

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<v Speaker 2>not being able to make it. But her topic was

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<v Speaker 2>going to be hands as a lesbian topic, which I

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<v Speaker 2>think is so rich.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's very rich, and I would love to know

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<v Speaker 1>where she was coming from.

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<v Speaker 2>You but you like get well you.

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<v Speaker 1>Get that they have hands.

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<v Speaker 2>No, but it's like, you know, hands are much more

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<v Speaker 2>of an important part of lesbian sex. I think is

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<v Speaker 2>where it's coming from.

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<v Speaker 1>March. We're in Times Square.

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<v Speaker 2>And like as a it's like hands. I think this

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<v Speaker 2>is what she was going for, hands as a sex organ.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh well, we'll have to ask, because I don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to make assumptions because I don't know. Yeah, maybe that's

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<v Speaker 1>not what she was going for.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, maybe I'm once again thinking too academically.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, maybe she was like the lesbians work with

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<v Speaker 3>their hands. Oh, that's also probably true.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, who knows it could be any I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>here to make assumptions. I'm here to listen.

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<v Speaker 2>We were being so respectful and open minded last night,

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<v Speaker 2>but we had one like cheap joke that we did

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<v Speaker 2>with the U haul, which, by the way, yeah, I'm.

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<v Speaker 1>Ready to be defensive. Here she goes, I'm ready to

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<v Speaker 1>be defensive. We put the U haul joke in the

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<v Speaker 1>slide show because we were like, it's time to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about this classic classic stereotypes.

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<v Speaker 2>But then all three of them are like Jesus Christ,

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<v Speaker 2>like why.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you put this in? And it was like, because

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<v Speaker 1>I'm curious, how are you thinking about classic stereotype? Because

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<v Speaker 1>gay car stereotype? It is like it's both embarrassing and

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<v Speaker 1>annoying and true. And so I'm like, how do you

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<v Speaker 1>guys feel about it?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but say love.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to say that. As our string of records

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<v Speaker 1>in New York comes to a near close, that's right.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel a little bit. I have that thing where

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, did I say everything? And even though we

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<v Speaker 1>slept two recordings today, I think back and I'm like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, when a little kid is like really excited

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<v Speaker 1>to do their dance for the parents, and then the

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<v Speaker 1>parents are like, okay, dance and they don't move at all.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like that's what I did. I feel like

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, I'm so excited to fucking show them

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<v Speaker 1>everything I've got, and then as soon as they're like,

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<v Speaker 1>okay recording, I'm like, so it do you guys like

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<v Speaker 1>blue or green better?

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<v Speaker 2>Don't you think though, that the concept of the big

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<v Speaker 2>moment is like a straight thing. And actually the more

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<v Speaker 2>queer sensibility is that it's just all of performance.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that's your last your theory life is a cabaret.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, It's like life is a cabaret. It's not that

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<v Speaker 2>life is preparation for the big.

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<v Speaker 1>The stage doesn't end when samas not end exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's like if it's like the director yell's cut,

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<v Speaker 2>that doesn't mean you're like, fuck, I didn't do what

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<v Speaker 2>I was going to do. It's like, I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>do it now. I don't give a shit if the

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<v Speaker 2>cameras are going to catch it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think that's true.

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<v Speaker 2>And we have to bring in our guests because we

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<v Speaker 2>are absolutely edging her as always.

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<v Speaker 1>As always, this is truly exciting.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm really excited I'm excited.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm nervous. I feel that. You know, we have prestigious

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<v Speaker 1>guests sometimes, by the way, all the time, all the

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<v Speaker 1>time we are.

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<v Speaker 2>We love having prestigious guests, and they love doing the podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's just want to start there. It's actually like.

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<v Speaker 1>And not to be sort of animal farm coded, but

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<v Speaker 1>some persigious guests, some more prestigious than others.

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<v Speaker 2>That's true. And I would say this one's like in

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<v Speaker 2>the top tier being prestigious.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and so while all are prestigious, some are more

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<v Speaker 1>presigious than others, and this is our most prestigious.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, oh my god. Okay, Well, you know her from

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<v Speaker 2>her debut smash hit novel Detransition Baby, you know her

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<v Speaker 2>from her new book stag Dance, and you know her

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<v Speaker 2>as the guest of this episode of Straighter Lab. Please

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<v Speaker 2>welcome Tory Peters. Hi, Hi, what do you think of

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<v Speaker 2>her intro?

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<v Speaker 4>To be honest, I was very interested in your interpretations

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<v Speaker 4>of lesbian culture.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I could see you. We were really like torturing

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<v Speaker 2>you because we were saying all these things that we

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<v Speaker 2>want your toe.

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<v Speaker 4>I wanted to jump in on. Yeah. Okay, thoughts, Well,

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<v Speaker 4>I think you're correct.

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<v Speaker 2>About Hans Okay, do you think.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think it was a sex thing. I don't

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<v Speaker 4>think I don't think anyone's gonna be a funded by that.

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<v Speaker 4>You don't have to self cancel.

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<v Speaker 1>I have to say it was as I'm currently you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we unpack the podcast as we record the podcast, that's

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<v Speaker 1>part of it. As I sit in the middle seat,

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<v Speaker 1>I was finding myself not able to look at you

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<v Speaker 1>for approval and reactions, so I had no the whole time.

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<v Speaker 1>I was really flying blind.

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<v Speaker 2>I was being very supportive. Yeah, thumbs up, big smile.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's really helpful to know, because I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>what if we're bombing and I can't I.

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<v Speaker 4>Was wondering why you weren't making eye contact. I was waiting,

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<v Speaker 4>ignoring me.

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<v Speaker 1>I was really focused in on George.

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<v Speaker 2>And then what do you think about generally self cancelate,

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<v Speaker 2>like the idea that the lesbian small businesses started from

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<v Speaker 2>THEE I mean.

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<v Speaker 4>As you were saying that, I was like, oh, actually

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<v Speaker 4>that is something that I think about, like this, I'm

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<v Speaker 4>wearing this jacket, for instance, and it's I don't know

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<v Speaker 4>if the owner of the company is a lesbian. I

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<v Speaker 4>don't want to assume, but there's something kind of lesbian

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<v Speaker 4>Kamala about the marketing of this it's an argent.

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<v Speaker 2>Jacket, what was the marketing of it?

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<v Speaker 4>And well, actually, Kamala, I think is one of their

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<v Speaker 4>I think like a pink power suit. And I was like,

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<v Speaker 4>I want I want exactly that to be like I

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<v Speaker 4>want to blend in on my book tour. So I

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<v Speaker 4>got like I was like what. I asked some some

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<v Speaker 4>fast people like what should I get and they're like, well,

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<v Speaker 4>this is the this is the thing in which nobody

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<v Speaker 4>will have an opinion about your suits, and then.

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<v Speaker 2>Being like, yeah, you don't want to be marked as

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<v Speaker 2>like anything.

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<v Speaker 4>I want like nobody to notice.

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<v Speaker 2>It is your t shirts. Does your T shirt say

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<v Speaker 2>tea for tea? It does, And you don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>be you don't want to be worked as other in anyway.

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<v Speaker 4>That was saying that was an air dressing air today.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah no, But I felt like like I want everybody

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<v Speaker 4>to use my press photos. Basically I have good press

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<v Speaker 4>photos and I found if I wore interesting clothing my

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<v Speaker 4>last tour, it would be like these terrible candids that

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<v Speaker 4>for whatever reason, especially Italian photographers, love taking awful photos

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<v Speaker 4>of me.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a conspiracy photographers want.

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<v Speaker 4>I was just chased by like untalented Italian povers taking

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<v Speaker 4>terrible candidates and then doing SEO optimization on their terrible pictures.

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<v Speaker 4>And I think it was because they were like, oh,

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<v Speaker 4>this is the this is a different outfit than the

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<v Speaker 4>press outfit than the press photos, so we'll do this.

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<v Speaker 1>They felt like they were being unique.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, exactly, So now I want to wear something that's

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<v Speaker 4>like super bland, and if you were like, what's a

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<v Speaker 4>good photo, they go with my press photo that is

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<v Speaker 4>just available rather than you know, how bland in my

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<v Speaker 4>bland terrible candidate.

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<v Speaker 2>I did notice that in the photo on the jacket

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<v Speaker 2>of the book, you are wearing a white pantsuit.

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<v Speaker 4>I got rid of that one in the second printing to.

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<v Speaker 2>Wait. So you thought that, because that, to me is

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<v Speaker 2>very like Hillary Clinton meets like Annette Benning doing actors

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<v Speaker 2>on acting.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, I was, that was like kind of what I

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<v Speaker 4>was going for. And there's like such a such a

0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:04.080
<v Speaker 4>history of like writers wearing white suits like Tom woll Well,

0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:10.960
<v Speaker 4>Steve Martin's not really those are those are my two

0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:14.120
<v Speaker 4>loads stocks in dressing. But I was like, yeah, I

0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.520
<v Speaker 4>think this is going to be my suit era. But

0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:18.800
<v Speaker 4>I've had to like have a couple of like restarts

0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:20.920
<v Speaker 4>on what I want the suit to do.

0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:22.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, you, so then what is the new photo.

0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.680
<v Speaker 4>The new photo is going to be my bland suit.

0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:28.040
<v Speaker 4>I switched it out. I mean it's a good photo

0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.120
<v Speaker 4>of me. But you don't really even notice a suit.

0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:32.640
<v Speaker 2>That one is very suit you notice.

0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:34.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's like your walk. You're You're doing a suit

0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.520
<v Speaker 4>thing in the photo, and I'm sort of secondary to

0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:38.079
<v Speaker 4>the suit.

0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.400
<v Speaker 1>This is You're bringing up something I find really interesting,

0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.679
<v Speaker 1>which is when you're launching sort of a new personal era,

0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:46.560
<v Speaker 1>you have to make at least three missteps. First. Yeah,

0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:49.880
<v Speaker 1>like I've been trying to go cowboy and I'm not

0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.520
<v Speaker 1>doing it today. But I was like I leaned in

0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.200
<v Speaker 1>way too hard. At first. I was like, I'm going

0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:58.960
<v Speaker 1>full cowboy, Like I'm wearing like wranglers, cowboy boots, tucking

0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:00.880
<v Speaker 1>the shirt and wearing a belt. And then it was

0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:04.520
<v Speaker 1>like it was like confusing, and then I pull back, Yeah,

0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.520
<v Speaker 1>like you can wear one. Yeah, you can't do full cowboy.

0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:08.040
<v Speaker 1>It's silly.

0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.000
<v Speaker 4>I feel that way about about the white suit. I mean,

0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:13.640
<v Speaker 4>I'll do that very occasionally. I think it's like a

0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:15.760
<v Speaker 4>special thing, but I think it's like the first printing

0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:19.079
<v Speaker 4>is a white suit, and then we we pull back.

0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:21.040
<v Speaker 1>You got to see how far you can go? Yeah,

0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:22.280
<v Speaker 1>take one thing off.

0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:24.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but that was like the I think they were like,

0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:25.720
<v Speaker 4>we're doing a reprint, and I was like, I have

0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:26.240
<v Speaker 4>a new author.

0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:31.320
<v Speaker 1>Fun does the idea of a book tour? Is that

0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:32.400
<v Speaker 1>stressful or fun?

0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:37.199
<v Speaker 4>It's it's fun for the first three weeks, and then

0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:39.440
<v Speaker 4>you're it's not so much as stress as you're tired

0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:44.480
<v Speaker 4>of yourself. Sure, like you get sort of they don't

0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:46.960
<v Speaker 4>people want the greatest hits, you know, but like the

0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:51.160
<v Speaker 4>greatest hits for you are like three jokes and like

0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:53.480
<v Speaker 4>two ideas, and then you're like and then if you

0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.280
<v Speaker 4>deviate actually from it, it's usually the terrible nights is

0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:58.040
<v Speaker 4>when you when you think like, oh, I have a

0:12:58.160 --> 0:12:59.520
<v Speaker 4>I have a great new idea that I'm going to

0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:01.880
<v Speaker 4>try out this audience and it's like that was a

0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.160
<v Speaker 4>that was that was a bad Isn't it.

0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.640
<v Speaker 2>Also self perpetuating thing where like the people that are

0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.160
<v Speaker 2>interviewing you do their research, hear what you said in

0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:11.720
<v Speaker 2>other interviews, and then they're like, we heard when you

0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:13.720
<v Speaker 2>were a kid, you had like a favorite doll that

0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:15.720
<v Speaker 2>you played with, and so then you have to tell

0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:17.040
<v Speaker 2>the story again and again.

0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:21.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, oh that's so interesting. I also realized talking about

0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:23.960
<v Speaker 1>the podcast, when we make the podcast, me asking is

0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:25.920
<v Speaker 1>it fun or boring to go on book tour, it

0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:27.559
<v Speaker 1>was so like little kid.

0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Reporter, you're doing like Nicola, like use for kids, Nicol.

0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.200
<v Speaker 1>So what's your favorite candy? Like it was so.

0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.040
<v Speaker 4>But that was this is like that you were just

0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.080
<v Speaker 4>saying in the intar, the big moment where you're like

0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:41.760
<v Speaker 4>do you like blue or gay? You know, it's like

0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:43.600
<v Speaker 4>you're just doing it. This is part of the process

0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.120
<v Speaker 4>and now you're doing it. And I relate to it

0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:50.320
<v Speaker 4>because when I was like eight years old, I got

0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:55.960
<v Speaker 4>a chance to interview Jane Jane Goodall, the famous primatologist,

0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.920
<v Speaker 4>and I panicked and I said, so you like monkey

0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:04.040
<v Speaker 4>And it was like exactly. This was like I had

0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.200
<v Speaker 4>thought about it, like this is gonna be my moment,

0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.000
<v Speaker 4>It's gonna be it, and that's just what came out,

0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.559
<v Speaker 4>you know. So yeah, book tours kind of kind sometimes boring.

0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.320
<v Speaker 1>I found that as an interviewer, you know, my child

0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.680
<v Speaker 1>like wonder can be really charming, but as an interviewer,

0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.280
<v Speaker 1>it can also be quite confusing. I think it's sort

0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.440
<v Speaker 1>of like what are we doing here? You know?

0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:31.720
<v Speaker 2>But I sort of think I think someone being interviewed ultimately,

0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:33.720
<v Speaker 2>not to project us on to you, but generally speaking,

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.680
<v Speaker 2>someone being interviewed just wants to talk about what they

0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.440
<v Speaker 2>want to talk about, sure, and so giving them the

0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:42.840
<v Speaker 2>most like nothing question is like the best thing you

0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:44.479
<v Speaker 2>can do, because then they can just like monologue.

0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:46.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's the advanced interviewing.

0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:48.920
<v Speaker 2>It's yeah, exactly, super So what we've learned so far

0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:50.840
<v Speaker 2>is don't do your research because you will ask the

0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.400
<v Speaker 2>same questions, and in fact, don't ask questions because that

0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.000
<v Speaker 2>is boxing the interviewing in.

0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:01.520
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I felt your first ones fun or no was?

0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.000
<v Speaker 4>I was like, well, this is my moment to just monologue.

0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.640
<v Speaker 1>The word fun is so funny to ask like an

0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:11.120
<v Speaker 1>author is writing fun.

0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay, here's a final, final stupid question for you.

0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:19.600
<v Speaker 1>I have a second final stupid question.

0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:21.960
<v Speaker 2>We're doing such a good job. Yeah, okay, so my

0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:24.360
<v Speaker 2>question for you is, like, I'm sure people are asking

0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:27.240
<v Speaker 2>a lot of annoying questions. So my question for you is,

0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.480
<v Speaker 2>what is like the question you wish someone would ask

0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:31.880
<v Speaker 2>you that no one ever would.

0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:33.960
<v Speaker 4>Then sorry, that question I get like every time.

0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.360
<v Speaker 1>George, I was gonna be a bit I was about

0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:38.360
<v Speaker 1>to say, I bet you get really.

0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.560
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and then it's really hard because I'm like, I'm like, well,

0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.480
<v Speaker 4>that question is actually a very common one. And then

0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.520
<v Speaker 4>also you have to like calm up each time my

0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:50.640
<v Speaker 4>new question that that because well last time that I

0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:52.680
<v Speaker 4>got asked this question, which is, you know, a few

0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.160
<v Speaker 4>days ago, I came up with like this as the

0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.000
<v Speaker 4>thing I wish that somebody would ask me. And then

0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.640
<v Speaker 4>like by the end, you're just like kind of making up,

0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:01.920
<v Speaker 4>like and I'm like, I wish people would ask me

0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.560
<v Speaker 4>about my shoes more like because everything else can ask

0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:07.480
<v Speaker 4>because of that specific question I have.

0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.880
<v Speaker 2>It's the theory. And maybe this is completely wrong. Do

0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.320
<v Speaker 2>you think it's because people are like uncomfortable with asking

0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.440
<v Speaker 2>about big quotes trans issues that they don't want to

0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.000
<v Speaker 2>say the wrong thing, and so then they want you

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:20.480
<v Speaker 2>to tell them what to say.

0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:24.200
<v Speaker 4>Maybe that's it. There's two things that happens. And the

0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.840
<v Speaker 4>other thing that happens is that people are very proud

0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.600
<v Speaker 4>to have not asked about TRANSI shoes for an entire interview.

0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.520
<v Speaker 4>So but like the how proud they are that like

0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.280
<v Speaker 4>we've only talked about writing in this interview, Like I

0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.840
<v Speaker 4>don't even care that you're trans. You know, like you

0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:44.120
<v Speaker 4>can like feel that so heavily and like as as

0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.640
<v Speaker 4>they're like getting to the end, and it's like, and

0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.800
<v Speaker 4>you've also only talked about writing, and we're kind of

0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:52.240
<v Speaker 4>waiting for you to bring it up, but also we're

0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.280
<v Speaker 4>proud that we never brought it up. Is like that

0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.960
<v Speaker 4>that like slowly pressurizes that like stand off, you know

0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.400
<v Speaker 4>that you're that I'm in and so I oftentimes will

0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:04.159
<v Speaker 4>just break and be like I'm trans.

0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:10.240
<v Speaker 2>It's like checkofs, check offs, check offs, trans representation. It's

0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:11.560
<v Speaker 2>like is it going to be brought up?

0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:12.240
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.680
<v Speaker 2>Wow, okay, so what was your stupid question? And then

0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:17.680
<v Speaker 2>we'll go into smart Yeah this is a smart part.

0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.679
<v Speaker 1>Then we'll go into the smart section. I love the book,

0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, I was. I think I didn't expect how

0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.800
<v Speaker 1>horny it would be. To be honest, I was so

0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:30.320
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was so horny.

0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.480
<v Speaker 4>I would agree, but I felt, did you read my

0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.240
<v Speaker 4>first book? It was not?

0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:41.199
<v Speaker 1>I think was on here. I'd be like, no, but

0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:42.160
<v Speaker 1>you I did read?

0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:42.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.480
<v Speaker 4>But no, that that's interesting because I feel like the

0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:49.159
<v Speaker 4>first book was hornier, like you know, like they she

0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:51.760
<v Speaker 4>she gets like our ribbon tied around her junk, and

0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:53.800
<v Speaker 4>maybe maybe you were just like that was sad.

0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.920
<v Speaker 1>I did not like it, like the bag dance in particular,

0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:03.320
<v Speaker 1>like the big guy like being like being like treat

0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:07.320
<v Speaker 1>me as the woman. I was like, yeah, yeah, that's

0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:08.399
<v Speaker 1>like so hot.

0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:11.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I think it was just the horniness

0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:16.400
<v Speaker 2>that like you related to more than more.

0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:18.600
<v Speaker 1>I was like literally, I was like, oh, this is

0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:20.320
<v Speaker 1>why I like to hook up with bye guys, because

0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:22.280
<v Speaker 1>they're like treating they're.

0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.840
<v Speaker 4>So and then it's so like like they're so titillated

0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.400
<v Speaker 4>and excited by like look what I'm doing now. Yeah.

0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:31.160
<v Speaker 3>So, and then my dumb question was, do you think

0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:32.879
<v Speaker 3>writing is the horniest medium?

0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:34.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, ranked.

0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:36.880
<v Speaker 1>Horning.

0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:40.000
<v Speaker 4>If it is horny, it's like a masturbatory horning. It's

0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.720
<v Speaker 4>like a very like you're like alone, kind of pleased

0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.920
<v Speaker 4>with yourself, you know, and what you're like, I did it, Oh,

0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:50.479
<v Speaker 4>I liked it. You know, Like that's the the scene

0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:52.920
<v Speaker 4>maybe that you're thinking about in the Lumberjack thing where

0:18:53.520 --> 0:19:00.639
<v Speaker 4>where the babions the o fish Lumberjack is hooking up

0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.719
<v Speaker 4>with his boss and like a shanty. I wrote that

0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:05.560
<v Speaker 4>one that day, and I was like, I don't know

0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:07.480
<v Speaker 4>if I was like maybe it was a little turned on,

0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:11.480
<v Speaker 4>but I also just like like so smugly pleased with

0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:16.040
<v Speaker 4>myself that there was something very masturbatory about my emotions

0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:18.800
<v Speaker 4>that day. That was like I left that day of

0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.159
<v Speaker 4>writing as though I had just like taken odder on,

0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.840
<v Speaker 4>like gone into like a per porn wormhole for six hours.

0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:26.600
<v Speaker 1>Are you ever like, Okay, this is too horny? You

0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.080
<v Speaker 1>have to pull back, Like it's not it's it's too horny,

0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:29.960
<v Speaker 1>it's too hot.

0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:35.159
<v Speaker 4>No, like usually usually it if it is. If it

0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:38.680
<v Speaker 4>is that, then I am happy. And it's like maybe

0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.399
<v Speaker 4>in like later edits, but like anything that's like too much,

0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:45.560
<v Speaker 4>I like to sit with the too much for a while. Yeah,

0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:50.560
<v Speaker 4>and have somebody else tell me that made them uncomfortable. Yeah.

0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:51.280
<v Speaker 2>I loved it.

0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:55.359
<v Speaker 1>I felt like, Yeah, a lot of the horniness I

0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:57.439
<v Speaker 1>was relating to and the sort of like being like

0:19:57.760 --> 0:19:59.399
<v Speaker 1>why am I doing this and then being like but

0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:00.160
<v Speaker 1>I can't stop.

0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:02.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean that that is that's for me, is

0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:06.240
<v Speaker 4>like the kind of horness, like the confusing horniness I

0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.320
<v Speaker 4>think is like a go to uh both something I

0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.919
<v Speaker 4>go to, I guess emotionally confused horniness. I'm just very

0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:18.119
<v Speaker 4>comfortable there. And and I also think it's like like

0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.320
<v Speaker 4>I like characters who actually like don't totally understand what's

0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:24.080
<v Speaker 4>happening to them, you know. Yeah, And I feel like

0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:27.840
<v Speaker 4>hornedness is is a it is something that like happens

0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:30.160
<v Speaker 4>to you sometimes rather than something you do.

0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:32.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a curse. Then it's terminal.

0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.760
<v Speaker 1>There are times when I've done like I'm walking to

0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:38.919
<v Speaker 1>do something and I'm like, turn around, turn around, don't

0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:40.800
<v Speaker 1>do this. Yeah, And it's like, but I have to.

0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:43.080
<v Speaker 1>I won't rest until I go do this. I'm too

0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:45.879
<v Speaker 1>horn I have to put my life in danger to

0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:46.679
<v Speaker 1>go do this.

0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:48.200
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:50.919
<v Speaker 2>No, it really feels like you're in train spotting, but

0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.760
<v Speaker 2>it's instead of heroin, it's horniness.

0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:55.640
<v Speaker 1>It's not right.

0:20:56.040 --> 0:21:01.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's also I think similarly how your characters deal

0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.400
<v Speaker 2>with their horniness. I also think the way they deal

0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.080
<v Speaker 2>with their own cruelty is kind of been the same way.

0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.639
<v Speaker 2>Like it they almost can't help it and can't understand

0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.159
<v Speaker 2>where it's coming from, and they're half conscious of it,

0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:16.359
<v Speaker 2>and they're almost like just conscious enough to feel guilty

0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:18.040
<v Speaker 2>and self loathing about it.

0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:22.240
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think we've entered the smart smart question.

0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:29.560
<v Speaker 2>It's like, are you yeah? Was that something like was

0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.920
<v Speaker 2>the almost like the relationship between cruelty and horniness something

0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:33.680
<v Speaker 2>that was in your mind?

0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.960
<v Speaker 4>Well, I think cruelty is very intimate, right, Like I

0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:39.080
<v Speaker 4>think that like when you don't know somebody and you

0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:41.080
<v Speaker 4>do something like awful to them, that's just like sort

0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.280
<v Speaker 4>of brutality. But that like when you know somebody and

0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.800
<v Speaker 4>you like know their like vulnerabilities and there and and

0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:50.800
<v Speaker 4>like the like the soft parts of them, and then

0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:54.439
<v Speaker 4>you like kind of can't help yourself maybe because like

0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:56.760
<v Speaker 4>you know them so well and you're just so like

0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:59.399
<v Speaker 4>frustrated or irritated or no, that you just like go

0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:03.640
<v Speaker 4>for those vulnerable areas. I mean, that's very intimate, right

0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:07.639
<v Speaker 4>to know somebody so so in all their soft parts.

0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:11.080
<v Speaker 4>So I think that, like, and that's exactly kind of

0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:12.840
<v Speaker 4>what you want to know if you're horning too. So

0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:15.120
<v Speaker 4>there is like the cruelty in the horningsh.

0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:16.919
<v Speaker 2>My cruelty is finding the emotional g spot.

0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:18.400
<v Speaker 1>Yes, exactly.

0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:20.640
<v Speaker 4>I'm going to borrow that for when I go on tour.

0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:22.880
<v Speaker 4>I'm going to the UK. I think that I'll still

0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:23.320
<v Speaker 4>love it.

0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. Yeah you were telling me that, I

0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.240
<v Speaker 2>you know what, You're gonna have a lovely time in London,

0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:33.320
<v Speaker 2>go to the West End, see some plays. What a time.

0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:36.120
<v Speaker 1>The other thing, this is more more of a reflection

0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:41.400
<v Speaker 1>of my stupidity rather than a question. Okay, you know confidence,

0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:44.800
<v Speaker 1>Well you know that meme.

0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:47.960
<v Speaker 4>It's a good start.

0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:53.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know that meme. That's like me as someone

0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:57.119
<v Speaker 1>who has only seen Trolls two World Tour watching you know,

0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:01.240
<v Speaker 1>The Godfather. Wow, this is just like it were totally.

0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:05.200
<v Speaker 1>I feel like the only like books that I read

0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:09.439
<v Speaker 1>like that are about like like hard like fiction books

0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:12.480
<v Speaker 1>about gender are like Ursula kay La Gwinn. So the

0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:14.440
<v Speaker 1>whole time I was like, like, especially like the first one,

0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:17.920
<v Speaker 1>I was like, wow, this is just like.

0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:19.880
<v Speaker 4>I will take it. I mean as opposed to Trulls too.

0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:24.680
<v Speaker 4>If you're like, this is just like Ursula Gwinn, Absolutely.

0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:25.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah I was.

0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:28.320
<v Speaker 1>I liked I felt like it was fun that you

0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:32.200
<v Speaker 1>were going so big and like sci fi with it.

0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:36.639
<v Speaker 4>Like yeah, so like I was. I I wanted to

0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:39.080
<v Speaker 4>do the promise for people haven't read it is that's

0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:44.040
<v Speaker 4>each piece is like in a different genre and and

0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:47.520
<v Speaker 4>that one. The first one is like a speculative fiction

0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:51.959
<v Speaker 4>dystopian one about like a gender apocalypse. But I think

0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:53.840
<v Speaker 4>it was also like that was the first one that

0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:57.000
<v Speaker 4>I wrote, and it was because, uh, I think I

0:23:57.040 --> 0:23:59.119
<v Speaker 4>was like it was like twenty sixteen and like Last

0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:01.119
<v Speaker 4>of Us the video game come out, it was like

0:24:01.160 --> 0:24:03.040
<v Speaker 4>the Road and also ours thing, and I was like, what

0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:08.280
<v Speaker 4>genre is everybody into in twenty sixteen, and it was

0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:13.520
<v Speaker 4>kind of yeah, like grimy, grimy, pust apocalyptic stuff, whereas

0:24:13.520 --> 0:24:15.639
<v Speaker 4>like now I think I would I would never do

0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:17.159
<v Speaker 4>like a pandemic.

0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:19.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah right, Oh so that was written free.

0:24:19.720 --> 0:24:21.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you've talked about this, but yeah, it was

0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:21.960
<v Speaker 2>written pre pandemic.

0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:24.840
<v Speaker 4>Its pre pandemic. Yeah, which, like I think is people

0:24:24.880 --> 0:24:26.560
<v Speaker 4>are always like, why don't you expand that one into

0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:28.639
<v Speaker 4>a full novel. I don't think you want me to

0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:31.320
<v Speaker 4>do that, Like, I think you've kind of gone through it.

0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Yourself totally totally. Although we were saying, how now it's

0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:39.000
<v Speaker 2>been long enough. Actually Harry was saying this, right, someone

0:24:39.080 --> 0:24:42.200
<v Speaker 2>was saying, like it's now been long enough that people

0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:46.000
<v Speaker 2>are craving narratives about twenty twenty, not just the pandemic,

0:24:46.040 --> 0:24:48.080
<v Speaker 2>but like even just like where the culture was in

0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:51.760
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty, and how we were also unmoored from reality

0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:55.560
<v Speaker 2>because we were, you know, just like undergoing this like

0:24:55.640 --> 0:24:59.640
<v Speaker 2>insane experience all together but also alone. Yeah, So I'm

0:24:59.640 --> 0:25:03.240
<v Speaker 2>almost like it's like to pick something like that back

0:25:03.320 --> 0:25:06.200
<v Speaker 2>up now or even in like another three years.

0:25:06.320 --> 0:25:06.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:09.760
<v Speaker 4>I mean I felt actually like the other day when

0:25:10.119 --> 0:25:13.560
<v Speaker 4>when Trump announced all of his teriffs, like and I

0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:15.960
<v Speaker 4>felt the world kind of stopped for like a day.

0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:18.119
<v Speaker 4>I had like a real like what does this feel like?

0:25:18.119 --> 0:25:19.600
<v Speaker 4>What does this feel like? And then I was like, oh,

0:25:19.600 --> 0:25:22.199
<v Speaker 4>it feels like March twenty twenty, where everyone's like is

0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:24.920
<v Speaker 4>the economy crashing? Do I have a job?

0:25:25.359 --> 0:25:25.439
<v Speaker 2>Like?

0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:28.160
<v Speaker 4>Should I stock like fill up my bathtub or whatever

0:25:28.200 --> 0:25:30.560
<v Speaker 4>weird shit we were doing in twenty twenty. I had

0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:32.720
<v Speaker 4>like a real like I called it like a snow day,

0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:34.359
<v Speaker 4>like I don't remember what it was last week was

0:25:34.359 --> 0:25:36.320
<v Speaker 4>like it was like a pandemic snow day, where I

0:25:36.320 --> 0:25:39.000
<v Speaker 4>was like, is the world over? And I kind of

0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:41.400
<v Speaker 4>wish that, like, yeah, that that had there had been

0:25:41.440 --> 0:25:44.560
<v Speaker 4>like more culture about that weird feeling, because I feel like,

0:25:45.200 --> 0:25:47.160
<v Speaker 4>apparently we're gonna just keep on having.

0:25:47.040 --> 0:25:50.800
<v Speaker 2>Well that's the thing. I think microdosing March twenty twenty.

0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:53.600
<v Speaker 2>It's like every few days you just go through like

0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:56.960
<v Speaker 2>a less intense version of it, and it's it's like, yeah,

0:25:57.200 --> 0:26:01.480
<v Speaker 2>shorter and more painful rather than this like long drawn

0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:03.440
<v Speaker 2>out thing. Okay, I'm like so eager to get on

0:26:03.480 --> 0:26:04.679
<v Speaker 2>the topic. We should do our fst SEC. What's our

0:26:04.680 --> 0:26:11.000
<v Speaker 2>first second? Okay, Tori Sam, do you want to Our.

0:26:10.880 --> 0:26:13.080
<v Speaker 1>First segment is called straight Shooters, and in this segment,

0:26:13.080 --> 0:26:15.040
<v Speaker 1>we're going to ask you a series of rapidfier questions

0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:17.679
<v Speaker 1>to gauge your familiarity with and complicity and straight culture.

0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:19.840
<v Speaker 1>It's basically this thing or this other thing. And the

0:26:19.880 --> 0:26:21.720
<v Speaker 1>only rule is you can't ask any followup questions or

0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:22.560
<v Speaker 1>we'll scream at you.

0:26:22.800 --> 0:26:23.920
<v Speaker 4>Can I ask a pre question?

0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:27.840
<v Speaker 1>I think that might be a follow up question. And

0:26:28.040 --> 0:26:31.640
<v Speaker 1>while you I wanted to say yes to, I have

0:26:31.680 --> 0:26:32.440
<v Speaker 1>to be no.

0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:35.600
<v Speaker 2>I was and real yeah, I also attempted to say

0:26:35.640 --> 0:26:37.359
<v Speaker 2>yes because I was like, well, she's an author.

0:26:37.640 --> 0:26:38.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:26:38.280 --> 0:26:42.760
<v Speaker 4>I was like, well, if I'm putting as much gravitas

0:26:42.760 --> 0:26:45.159
<v Speaker 4>as I can to get away with to break the

0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:46.919
<v Speaker 4>rules of your podcast.

0:26:47.560 --> 0:26:51.639
<v Speaker 2>Should I sorry? Okay, We'll start simple being the goat

0:26:51.960 --> 0:26:53.120
<v Speaker 2>or sinking a boat.

0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:56.600
<v Speaker 1>Sinking a boat, okay, a dream come true? Or a

0:26:56.640 --> 0:26:57.680
<v Speaker 1>steaming pot of stew.

0:26:58.040 --> 0:27:00.040
<v Speaker 4>A steaming pot of stew does.

0:27:00.000 --> 0:27:06.840
<v Speaker 2>Sne within reach? Or a headline that says impeach, I.

0:27:06.920 --> 0:27:08.360
<v Speaker 4>Like design with's in reach?

0:27:09.480 --> 0:27:12.960
<v Speaker 1>A task that's the sophician or a rash that's cyphilician.

0:27:14.280 --> 0:27:19.760
<v Speaker 4>Oh, probably a taskian, Yeah.

0:27:19.640 --> 0:27:24.520
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, okay, being queer and in stem or drinking

0:27:24.600 --> 0:27:28.560
<v Speaker 2>beer but being fem Oh.

0:27:29.320 --> 0:27:33.720
<v Speaker 4>Oh wow, I'm gonna say drinking beer and being.

0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:39.720
<v Speaker 1>Fum Okay, okay, Lou tove Lou or mama rou What

0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:41.800
<v Speaker 1>was the middle one?

0:27:42.400 --> 0:27:44.280
<v Speaker 4>I don't know what that blows?

0:27:44.480 --> 0:27:47.719
<v Speaker 1>Actual pronouncing of the name you answer to follow up?

0:27:48.960 --> 0:27:53.440
<v Speaker 1>Got here? A constitutional crisis?

0:27:54.240 --> 0:27:57.440
<v Speaker 2>This is this is twenty twenty all over again.

0:27:57.480 --> 0:27:59.480
<v Speaker 1>People are hitting the streets.

0:27:59.520 --> 0:28:04.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'll now, Lou, let's see which one do I

0:28:04.240 --> 0:28:07.600
<v Speaker 2>want to do? The taming of the shrew or defaming Lucy.

0:28:07.680 --> 0:28:13.840
<v Speaker 1>Lou face card never declines, Oh my god, that's Ray Fines.

0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:17.960
<v Speaker 4>I like Ray Fines. I'm excited to see Ray Fines.

0:28:18.040 --> 0:28:19.280
<v Speaker 4>Oh my god, it's Refines.

0:28:19.359 --> 0:28:21.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm actually excited to see Ray Fines as well. Whenever

0:28:21.400 --> 0:28:23.000
<v Speaker 1>I see him, I'm like wow, that's very fine.

0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:23.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:28:23.680 --> 0:28:26.080
<v Speaker 1>And also there's you know what ray Fines is to me.

0:28:27.119 --> 0:28:30.040
<v Speaker 1>You know how people when you know how to say

0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:32.399
<v Speaker 1>luev right, you get to have like a step up

0:28:32.480 --> 0:28:33.760
<v Speaker 1>over like sixty percent.

0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:37.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well yeah, like that's you and rape.

0:28:37.200 --> 0:28:39.800
<v Speaker 1>Literally like I see that name and I go, I

0:28:39.880 --> 0:28:40.440
<v Speaker 1>know how to say that.

0:28:41.280 --> 0:28:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so because it's not spelled like it's spelled ralph,

0:28:44.600 --> 0:28:45.280
<v Speaker 2>but it's rafe.

0:28:45.360 --> 0:28:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's spelled Ralph Fiennes. And you say, you say rain.

0:28:50.200 --> 0:28:50.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you're in the no.

0:28:51.400 --> 0:28:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so Jory, we rank each gets performance on a

0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:58.880
<v Speaker 2>scale of zero to one thousand doves and or zero

0:28:58.920 --> 0:29:01.640
<v Speaker 2>to one thousand. We have decided based on based on

0:29:01.640 --> 0:29:05.360
<v Speaker 2>two Gaga songs to songs. I have to say. Here's

0:29:05.360 --> 0:29:07.640
<v Speaker 2>what I'm struggling with. I'm like, do we reward the

0:29:07.680 --> 0:29:10.160
<v Speaker 2>boldness of asking a followup question because she beat us

0:29:10.160 --> 0:29:14.479
<v Speaker 2>at her own game? Or do we punish because because

0:29:14.560 --> 0:29:15.520
<v Speaker 2>she did the one thing that.

0:29:15.560 --> 0:29:18.600
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, I believe a wise man once said

0:29:18.880 --> 0:29:20.400
<v Speaker 1>that cruelty is the g spot.

0:29:21.320 --> 0:29:23.680
<v Speaker 2>So oh my god, you did that to us. You

0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:27.680
<v Speaker 2>like found you found our one weakness and used it

0:29:27.720 --> 0:29:28.239
<v Speaker 2>against us.

0:29:28.280 --> 0:29:29.240
<v Speaker 4>I made it pleasurable.

0:29:29.440 --> 0:29:32.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, literally, I think we should punish.

0:29:32.760 --> 0:29:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh, okay, we should punish. Okay, So I would say,

0:29:38.840 --> 0:29:41.000
<v Speaker 2>without the follow up question, it would have been nine

0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:42.160
<v Speaker 2>hundred and thirty doves.

0:29:42.200 --> 0:29:42.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's fact.

0:29:42.920 --> 0:29:47.080
<v Speaker 2>But with the deduction of six hundreds, six hundreds, it's

0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:50.440
<v Speaker 2>gonna go ahead and be three hundred and thirty five duffs.

0:29:50.560 --> 0:29:52.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm so sorry, Tori. That's not a passing.

0:29:53.560 --> 0:29:55.360
<v Speaker 4>But what is that? And what is that in blades

0:29:55.400 --> 0:29:55.880
<v Speaker 4>of grass?

0:29:56.320 --> 0:30:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So there's inflation when it comes to places of grass,

0:30:00.600 --> 0:30:05.520
<v Speaker 2>the grass I get it's more closer to like six fifty.

0:30:05.600 --> 0:30:06.880
<v Speaker 1>It's more closer to six fifty.

0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:12.200
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's a good change. You're like in other countries.

0:30:12.240 --> 0:30:12.880
<v Speaker 4>I'll do all right.

0:30:13.560 --> 0:30:18.840
<v Speaker 2>When you're in the UK, you can pay. Yeah, you're

0:30:18.920 --> 0:30:22.040
<v Speaker 2>actually somehow making Yeah, certainly have more than a I'm.

0:30:21.760 --> 0:30:23.800
<v Speaker 4>So glad I did this podcast before I went over.

0:30:25.640 --> 0:30:28.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, horse, should we get into the straight

0:30:29.120 --> 0:30:31.600
<v Speaker 1>I would love to hear so behind the scenes. George

0:30:31.640 --> 0:30:34.040
<v Speaker 1>knows the topic. I do not, and I'm so excited

0:30:34.080 --> 0:30:36.280
<v Speaker 1>to hear what street topic is and what's straight about it.

0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:41.680
<v Speaker 4>So it's a working theory. But my straight topic is

0:30:41.800 --> 0:30:48.360
<v Speaker 4>prolonged divorce and my theory is that you don't know

0:30:49.160 --> 0:30:52.040
<v Speaker 4>if you're in a gay marriage or a straight marriage

0:30:52.360 --> 0:30:55.480
<v Speaker 4>until you get divorced, and it is how long how

0:30:55.560 --> 0:30:59.680
<v Speaker 4>prolonged your divorces that determines how gay or straight you're

0:30:59.720 --> 0:31:00.440
<v Speaker 4>you're your.

0:31:00.360 --> 0:31:03.240
<v Speaker 2>Marriages, and the more.

0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:05.640
<v Speaker 4>The straighter is, the more prolonged your marriage that you

0:31:05.640 --> 0:31:08.200
<v Speaker 4>can And it doesn't really matter your gender or how

0:31:08.240 --> 0:31:11.480
<v Speaker 4>you identify. It's like it's like when you don't know

0:31:11.560 --> 0:31:13.800
<v Speaker 4>and then you get divorced and if it goes on

0:31:14.000 --> 0:31:17.320
<v Speaker 4>like two years, you were in a straight march of

0:31:17.400 --> 0:31:17.800
<v Speaker 4>all time.

0:31:18.560 --> 0:31:21.360
<v Speaker 1>Because the queer thing is being like I don't I

0:31:21.560 --> 0:31:23.320
<v Speaker 1>take my possessions, I don't care, Like.

0:31:23.520 --> 0:31:25.120
<v Speaker 4>No, I don't think it's even like that, Like I

0:31:25.160 --> 0:31:28.240
<v Speaker 4>think like but I think it's like I think it's

0:31:28.280 --> 0:31:30.160
<v Speaker 4>like you just can't let go. And I think it's

0:31:30.200 --> 0:31:32.760
<v Speaker 4>just like you can't let go because like of you're

0:31:32.840 --> 0:31:35.440
<v Speaker 4>just like have ended up very headot in your thing

0:31:35.480 --> 0:31:38.800
<v Speaker 4>where like one person knows how to cook, one person

0:31:38.880 --> 0:31:42.800
<v Speaker 4>knows where like the drain on the sink is, and

0:31:42.880 --> 0:31:45.680
<v Speaker 4>you can't leave each other because you're like, how am

0:31:45.720 --> 0:31:48.400
<v Speaker 4>I going to drain the sink without this person? How

0:31:48.440 --> 0:31:49.960
<v Speaker 4>am I going to turn on the stove or do

0:31:50.000 --> 0:31:52.360
<v Speaker 4>all these things and so you just you just you

0:31:52.480 --> 0:31:57.000
<v Speaker 4>dry it out forever. And because I'm I'm forty three

0:31:57.040 --> 0:31:59.959
<v Speaker 4>now and I'm I'm like, I had one round of

0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:02.280
<v Speaker 4>well I to divorce myself, but like a round of

0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:07.240
<v Speaker 4>divorces with a like age thirty and now. And I

0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:09.640
<v Speaker 4>think it was mostly like queer ish people who are

0:32:09.640 --> 0:32:13.480
<v Speaker 4>getting divorced at thirty, where they were like usually discovering

0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:15.479
<v Speaker 4>they were queer or something and they're like, oh, I

0:32:15.520 --> 0:32:19.320
<v Speaker 4>gotta go. And now it's like straight people in my

0:32:19.360 --> 0:32:22.400
<v Speaker 4>life in their forties and they are just trying it

0:32:22.560 --> 0:32:27.120
<v Speaker 4>out four years and I'm just like and everything that

0:32:27.120 --> 0:32:28.840
<v Speaker 4>they do is so staright, just like you can just

0:32:28.920 --> 0:32:30.760
<v Speaker 4>stop this, just stop it.

0:32:31.080 --> 0:32:32.560
<v Speaker 2>Don't you think it has to do with like the

0:32:32.600 --> 0:32:35.480
<v Speaker 2>more you buy into the institution, for lack of a

0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:38.680
<v Speaker 2>better word, the more violent it is to break it apart,

0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:43.120
<v Speaker 2>because it's like, yes, the more you believe in marriage,

0:32:43.160 --> 0:32:45.160
<v Speaker 2>the more difficult it is to step away from it,

0:32:45.200 --> 0:32:47.320
<v Speaker 2>like you have literally it's all been leading to that.

0:32:48.000 --> 0:32:51.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, And I think that's actually what drives me

0:32:51.160 --> 0:32:54.640
<v Speaker 4>crazy about this is like every like just get away

0:32:54.680 --> 0:32:57.160
<v Speaker 4>from each other, like just you don't need this, like

0:32:57.200 --> 0:33:00.560
<v Speaker 4>you'll be happier and like, and they just can't see

0:33:00.680 --> 0:33:02.440
<v Speaker 4>they can't see that like it needs to end. You're

0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:05.920
<v Speaker 4>torturing each other, and there's something like I'm just like,

0:33:06.120 --> 0:33:09.680
<v Speaker 4>just like this what is happening is like straightness is

0:33:09.760 --> 0:33:14.920
<v Speaker 4>torturing you all rather than you know, even each other

0:33:14.960 --> 0:33:18.520
<v Speaker 4>are torturing each other. And I've noticed it actually, like again,

0:33:18.680 --> 0:33:21.040
<v Speaker 4>like it doesn't even have to be straight people, Like

0:33:21.520 --> 0:33:24.800
<v Speaker 4>there's some some gay marriage couples that I know where

0:33:24.840 --> 0:33:26.760
<v Speaker 4>I'm just like, the way you're doing this is like

0:33:26.840 --> 0:33:29.600
<v Speaker 4>you've you've believed in it too much. You've like entered

0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:33.080
<v Speaker 4>into straightness and it's and I didn't know it the

0:33:33.120 --> 0:33:35.480
<v Speaker 4>whole time you were together, but now that you're divorcing,

0:33:35.480 --> 0:33:37.520
<v Speaker 4>I see that you were in a straight marriage all totally.

0:33:37.600 --> 0:33:41.600
<v Speaker 2>I actually, I think more broadly gay you know, since

0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:44.960
<v Speaker 2>gay people have been able to get married, there are

0:33:45.000 --> 0:33:48.960
<v Speaker 2>there is a spectrum of on the one side, gay

0:33:49.040 --> 0:33:52.400
<v Speaker 2>people almost like wanting to emulate straight people and on

0:33:52.440 --> 0:33:55.160
<v Speaker 2>the other side being like excited to do something new

0:33:55.320 --> 0:33:59.680
<v Speaker 2>with this new right, you know what I mean. And

0:33:59.720 --> 0:34:02.840
<v Speaker 2>so it's like there's a spectrum of straight to gay

0:34:02.880 --> 0:34:04.440
<v Speaker 2>marriage within gay marriage.

0:34:05.360 --> 0:34:08.040
<v Speaker 4>I agree with you. Wow, I agree with that, And

0:34:08.360 --> 0:34:10.319
<v Speaker 4>I mean I even think like you were you were

0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:12.880
<v Speaker 4>saying that like on a previous show that you had

0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:14.799
<v Speaker 4>you had classified what.

0:34:14.840 --> 0:34:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Was it, divorces Lesbian marriage is straight, and like staying

0:34:20.360 --> 0:34:24.040
<v Speaker 2>together without getting divorced is gay male, right because they're like.

0:34:24.040 --> 0:34:25.480
<v Speaker 1>But like they don't hook up anymore.

0:34:25.640 --> 0:34:28.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like staying in an happy marriage basically is gay

0:34:28.120 --> 0:34:31.080
<v Speaker 2>male because they're all open, so they don't feel the

0:34:31.160 --> 0:34:33.560
<v Speaker 2>need to escape because they just like can't escape every

0:34:33.640 --> 0:34:36.040
<v Speaker 2>night basically, yeah, but just like come home and resent

0:34:36.120 --> 0:34:39.160
<v Speaker 2>their husband. And of course the classic thing, my favorite

0:34:39.160 --> 0:34:41.880
<v Speaker 2>thing when it's a gay couple and they're like in

0:34:41.920 --> 0:34:44.880
<v Speaker 2>a fight, another person enters the room and one of

0:34:44.880 --> 0:34:47.880
<v Speaker 2>the husbands goes, oh, look there's your boyfriend.

0:34:48.400 --> 0:34:51.239
<v Speaker 4>But see, to me, that is like that even Okay,

0:34:51.320 --> 0:34:53.920
<v Speaker 4>So let's if you just take that, like gay couple

0:34:54.040 --> 0:34:56.480
<v Speaker 4>not having sex together forever, that is either like the

0:34:56.520 --> 0:34:59.359
<v Speaker 4>most kind of like oh you've like solved marriage, like

0:34:59.440 --> 0:35:03.320
<v Speaker 4>you are like the most enlightened thing, or it's actually

0:35:03.360 --> 0:35:06.280
<v Speaker 4>like you are the you have like reverted to such

0:35:06.480 --> 0:35:11.080
<v Speaker 4>straightness that yeah, or even like the Catholic church in

0:35:11.080 --> 0:35:14.279
<v Speaker 4>like the fifteen hundreds, like divorce does not exist for you.

0:35:14.280 --> 0:35:16.719
<v Speaker 4>You just have to live with each other, and like

0:35:16.880 --> 0:35:19.440
<v Speaker 4>and like dream one day of like how could we

0:35:19.520 --> 0:35:23.759
<v Speaker 4>possibly separate? It's unthinkable. God does not allow it, you know,

0:35:24.080 --> 0:35:26.759
<v Speaker 4>And it's like that's the straightest, the straightest you could

0:35:26.760 --> 0:35:31.320
<v Speaker 4>possibly be, is two gay men living together.

0:35:33.440 --> 0:35:37.040
<v Speaker 1>It is interesting. It's always like obviously there's no right answer,

0:35:37.320 --> 0:35:40.439
<v Speaker 1>but I'm sort of like is that better? Like there's

0:35:40.480 --> 0:35:43.080
<v Speaker 1>so many guys Ryan, like could you just break up?

0:35:43.160 --> 0:35:45.600
<v Speaker 1>Like let's call it, Like it would be so much

0:35:45.600 --> 0:35:46.560
<v Speaker 1>better if you just broke up.

0:35:47.360 --> 0:35:49.759
<v Speaker 2>It is interesting how that is almost the default for

0:35:49.800 --> 0:35:52.480
<v Speaker 2>long term GI guy relationships. Yeah, where then everyone under

0:35:52.480 --> 0:35:54.360
<v Speaker 2>their breath is like yeah, they're always like this.

0:35:54.520 --> 0:35:57.840
<v Speaker 4>It's it is and like the even the bickering that

0:35:57.880 --> 0:36:00.840
<v Speaker 4>you that you just said that there as your boyfriend

0:36:00.960 --> 0:36:04.000
<v Speaker 4>or whatever. It's like that you just stage that with

0:36:04.080 --> 0:36:07.040
<v Speaker 4>like slightly different actors and you're like, oh, this is

0:36:07.200 --> 0:36:12.400
<v Speaker 4>this is the most conservative like yeah, like British period

0:36:13.000 --> 0:36:14.239
<v Speaker 4>that we're watching, you know.

0:36:14.600 --> 0:36:18.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I'm finding this really interesting because Okay,

0:36:18.280 --> 0:36:23.080
<v Speaker 2>so basically is finality gay or straight? I think it's

0:36:23.120 --> 0:36:26.359
<v Speaker 2>like a larger question and out of go ahead.

0:36:26.120 --> 0:36:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think finality is more straight, to be honest,

0:36:28.440 --> 0:36:30.120
<v Speaker 1>and I think that's why they make it last longer,

0:36:30.239 --> 0:36:32.960
<v Speaker 1>because they know when it's over it's actually over, whereas

0:36:32.960 --> 0:36:36.680
<v Speaker 1>when gay people are breaking up, they are like, we're divorced,

0:36:36.760 --> 0:36:40.080
<v Speaker 1>it's over, but we still get lunch every three months.

0:36:40.200 --> 0:36:42.719
<v Speaker 2>Rare, right, So finality is straight and that there's a

0:36:42.760 --> 0:36:45.200
<v Speaker 2>gravity to it that straight people are afraid of. They're like,

0:36:45.239 --> 0:36:50.680
<v Speaker 2>I will do anything but finality. Yes. Yeah, So in

0:36:51.520 --> 0:36:56.239
<v Speaker 2>their fight against finality, they are like hurting themselves.

0:36:56.760 --> 0:37:00.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah when they could, they could. Sort of life is

0:37:00.320 --> 0:37:03.320
<v Speaker 1>a cabaret thing, you know. Gay people know when the

0:37:03.360 --> 0:37:06.480
<v Speaker 1>cameras are off the stage, you're still on stage, and

0:37:06.560 --> 0:37:08.040
<v Speaker 1>so you know, when the marriage is over, you're still

0:37:08.040 --> 0:37:10.160
<v Speaker 1>gonna have a relationship with a person. It's just a

0:37:10.160 --> 0:37:12.480
<v Speaker 1>different relationship where the straight people are like when the

0:37:12.520 --> 0:37:13.680
<v Speaker 1>cameras are off, I'm off stage.

0:37:15.120 --> 0:37:15.440
<v Speaker 2>God.

0:37:15.719 --> 0:37:18.480
<v Speaker 4>But I also think that the willingness to be final

0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:21.640
<v Speaker 4>would be gay, like a willingness to like to lean

0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:25.840
<v Speaker 4>in and be like, I'm breaking ties and I'm changing everything.

0:37:25.600 --> 0:37:26.520
<v Speaker 2>To make a stag I am.

0:37:26.680 --> 0:37:31.120
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, exactly, like everything's new about me now, Like

0:37:31.160 --> 0:37:32.879
<v Speaker 4>that that is that that well, it's.

0:37:32.800 --> 0:37:36.919
<v Speaker 2>Like I'm wearing the They're literally debuting like a I'm

0:37:36.920 --> 0:37:39.160
<v Speaker 2>divorced era, and then they're like, actually, I'm pulling back.

0:37:40.239 --> 0:37:41.399
<v Speaker 1>I'm not fully out.

0:37:41.680 --> 0:37:46.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, there's also something I think like gay people, because

0:37:46.080 --> 0:37:51.040
<v Speaker 2>they kind of have this reverence for like a diva,

0:37:51.120 --> 0:37:53.480
<v Speaker 2>a straight woman who like a divorce a. I almost

0:37:53.480 --> 0:37:56.239
<v Speaker 2>think like to be divorced is so fabulous, whereas like

0:37:56.400 --> 0:37:59.000
<v Speaker 2>for a sort of like a straight woman who married

0:37:59.000 --> 0:38:01.720
<v Speaker 2>her high school sweetheart, it's such a sign of failure.

0:38:02.280 --> 0:38:03.880
<v Speaker 1>It is a real sign of failure. I mean, to

0:38:03.880 --> 0:38:06.240
<v Speaker 1>be divorced in like the Sexlent City universe is fabulous.

0:38:06.239 --> 0:38:09.000
<v Speaker 1>Well that is, of course, but I do think in

0:38:09.040 --> 0:38:11.360
<v Speaker 1>like normal world it can be quite difficult.

0:38:11.640 --> 0:38:15.320
<v Speaker 2>What do you think of the recent And you cannot

0:38:15.360 --> 0:38:17.040
<v Speaker 2>answer this if you don't want to comment on your peers,

0:38:17.040 --> 0:38:18.880
<v Speaker 2>But there's been sort of a recent rise in like

0:38:18.920 --> 0:38:23.720
<v Speaker 2>divorce literature. Yeah, mostly from women. I would say, yeah,

0:38:23.719 --> 0:38:27.400
<v Speaker 2>in my experience, Like, what do you think that is about?

0:38:28.000 --> 0:38:31.440
<v Speaker 4>Well, it was like, I mean that was like the detransition.

0:38:31.480 --> 0:38:35.319
<v Speaker 4>Maybe my first book was dedicated to divorces women. Oh yes, yeah,

0:38:35.520 --> 0:38:37.000
<v Speaker 4>So it was like I felt like I was very

0:38:37.080 --> 0:38:39.440
<v Speaker 4>much a part of this like divorce thing, and like

0:38:39.960 --> 0:38:41.600
<v Speaker 4>you know, kind of what I was saying is like

0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:44.600
<v Speaker 4>divorce is a transition in the same way that like

0:38:45.160 --> 0:38:47.600
<v Speaker 4>you know, because you you live your life a certain

0:38:47.640 --> 0:38:50.440
<v Speaker 4>way and then you and then you make a decision

0:38:50.520 --> 0:38:52.759
<v Speaker 4>and then you have to like go forward and not

0:38:52.880 --> 0:38:56.640
<v Speaker 4>get bitter. And also you can't just like go get

0:38:56.640 --> 0:38:59.120
<v Speaker 4>married again in the same way with the same illusions,

0:38:59.160 --> 0:39:02.319
<v Speaker 4>otherwise you're gonna end divorced you And so I was like, oh,

0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:05.840
<v Speaker 4>like we can all understand each other, and I but

0:39:05.960 --> 0:39:10.040
<v Speaker 4>I feel that this is actually and so I was like, oh,

0:39:10.080 --> 0:39:12.520
<v Speaker 4>we can, we can build bridges, we can understand each other,

0:39:12.560 --> 0:39:16.560
<v Speaker 4>and like actually, like you can like divorce straight system

0:39:16.640 --> 0:39:18.479
<v Speaker 4>and you can sort of be trans in a little

0:39:18.520 --> 0:39:22.279
<v Speaker 4>bit of your way. But this is actually sort of

0:39:22.320 --> 0:39:26.279
<v Speaker 4>the twenty twenties culture that that like I feel like

0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:28.200
<v Speaker 4>maybe Hari was talking about that you were talking about,

0:39:28.200 --> 0:39:31.000
<v Speaker 4>Like I feel like that actually now to me feels

0:39:31.000 --> 0:39:35.799
<v Speaker 4>like a little bit naive, like this this sort of

0:39:35.840 --> 0:39:37.880
<v Speaker 4>like oh, we can all just can kind of like

0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:41.600
<v Speaker 4>understand and take responsibility for our for our actions and

0:39:41.640 --> 0:39:43.880
<v Speaker 4>like not lie to each other. Like I think that

0:39:43.880 --> 0:39:47.680
<v Speaker 4>that's like not true for like having watched people that

0:39:47.760 --> 0:39:49.279
<v Speaker 4>now get divorced. I'm like, oh no, you're just going

0:39:49.360 --> 0:39:52.400
<v Speaker 4>to continue to lie to each other. And so some degree,

0:39:52.480 --> 0:39:55.440
<v Speaker 4>like for me, like watching like trans shit over like

0:39:55.520 --> 0:39:57.480
<v Speaker 4>the last four years is like, oh no, this is

0:39:57.520 --> 0:40:00.640
<v Speaker 4>like like you can understand trans people, and actually it's

0:40:00.640 --> 0:40:03.480
<v Speaker 4>not gonna it's not going to make anything any better.

0:40:03.760 --> 0:40:07.800
<v Speaker 4>So I'm like a little bit like down on divorce literature,

0:40:07.840 --> 0:40:10.000
<v Speaker 4>right yeah, though I think there's like lots of good

0:40:10.040 --> 0:40:13.239
<v Speaker 4>books that do it. I'm sort of like it's like

0:40:13.280 --> 0:40:15.880
<v Speaker 4>I actually don't want to reread the whole like Ferranti series,

0:40:15.920 --> 0:40:17.719
<v Speaker 4>which like in twenty twenties you've been like do you

0:40:17.719 --> 0:40:20.080
<v Speaker 4>want to reread Fernto? I'd be like any day, all

0:40:20.120 --> 0:40:22.439
<v Speaker 4>the time, I'll do it. I'm like I actually want

0:40:22.520 --> 0:40:25.279
<v Speaker 4>like more things burned down now than I want it.

0:40:25.719 --> 0:40:27.200
<v Speaker 1>Than I want Like yeah, Like.

0:40:28.960 --> 0:40:32.560
<v Speaker 2>So you're sort of you've turned on divorce as an

0:40:32.600 --> 0:40:35.520
<v Speaker 2>optimistic Yeah yeah, kind of.

0:40:35.600 --> 0:40:38.799
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, like and I don't know what replaces it, but

0:40:39.040 --> 0:40:40.960
<v Speaker 4>but sort of like oh, you can just kind of

0:40:40.960 --> 0:40:44.160
<v Speaker 4>like go through this ritual take stock of like what

0:40:44.200 --> 0:40:46.400
<v Speaker 4>you want and who you are, and that's going to

0:40:46.440 --> 0:40:50.520
<v Speaker 4>be like enough to like move forward. I like don't

0:40:51.200 --> 0:40:53.759
<v Speaker 4>at this moment, like I sort of don't believe it,

0:40:53.840 --> 0:40:56.680
<v Speaker 4>Like I feel like, oh, you you something more than

0:40:56.719 --> 0:40:59.719
<v Speaker 4>that needs to happen like that, and and I and

0:41:00.280 --> 0:41:02.719
<v Speaker 4>in that metaphor of like divorce and transition, like I

0:41:02.840 --> 0:41:05.360
<v Speaker 4>also think that like it goes across for a transition,

0:41:05.400 --> 0:41:07.520
<v Speaker 4>where like it was a there was a while was like,

0:41:07.560 --> 0:41:10.040
<v Speaker 4>oh you just transition and then you and then you

0:41:10.080 --> 0:41:11.799
<v Speaker 4>can live your life as you want. It's like that's

0:41:11.880 --> 0:41:13.120
<v Speaker 4>not enough anymore.

0:41:13.280 --> 0:41:14.680
<v Speaker 1>Well that was the plot of Amelia Perez.

0:41:14.880 --> 0:41:18.239
<v Speaker 2>Ye, that's actually not the plot of Amelia Prez if

0:41:18.280 --> 0:41:19.160
<v Speaker 2>you remember the ending.

0:41:19.239 --> 0:41:22.759
<v Speaker 1>But well, I think, but I think what she's saying

0:41:22.840 --> 0:41:24.840
<v Speaker 1>is the plot where it's like you think you can.

0:41:25.360 --> 0:41:28.759
<v Speaker 2>You yeah, the critique is the plot of Amelia Press

0:41:28.840 --> 0:41:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.

0:41:30.480 --> 0:41:32.680
<v Speaker 4>And then you I haven't seen that. I've only watched

0:41:32.719 --> 0:41:35.000
<v Speaker 4>like clips of it, but I understand that somebody falls

0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:35.640
<v Speaker 4>down the mountain.

0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:39.000
<v Speaker 1>Go ahead and fall down the mountain and explode.

0:41:39.320 --> 0:41:39.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:41:39.680 --> 0:41:42.680
<v Speaker 1>She explodes the best way for any movie to end.

0:41:42.680 --> 0:41:44.600
<v Speaker 1>And I actually think more movies should end that way.

0:41:44.719 --> 0:41:47.799
<v Speaker 2>It's so complicated. I've spent so much time thinking about Amelia.

0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:50.759
<v Speaker 4>Perez from I started watching it on a plane, and

0:41:50.800 --> 0:41:52.920
<v Speaker 4>I was just like, this isn't the place, yeah, for

0:41:53.840 --> 0:41:56.800
<v Speaker 4>this movie and for me, and like and I got

0:41:57.719 --> 0:41:59.479
<v Speaker 4>when it started this tour, I got so many again

0:41:59.640 --> 0:42:01.759
<v Speaker 4>not to be like so many questions are the same,

0:42:01.760 --> 0:42:03.080
<v Speaker 4>but I got a lot of them, like what you

0:42:03.120 --> 0:42:06.359
<v Speaker 4>think of Amelia Prez. And I was like halfway through

0:42:06.840 --> 0:42:09.200
<v Speaker 4>watching on a plane, kind of not understanding what was

0:42:09.239 --> 0:42:10.920
<v Speaker 4>going on, and I was like, and then I'm going

0:42:11.000 --> 0:42:13.760
<v Speaker 4>to go in like a pine about this movie, totally

0:42:13.800 --> 0:42:16.920
<v Speaker 4>not understanding the edited version of it. So I just

0:42:17.120 --> 0:42:19.279
<v Speaker 4>I turned it off and I haven't returned to it.

0:42:19.800 --> 0:42:22.160
<v Speaker 2>I have to say, it's interesting that there's this idea

0:42:22.280 --> 0:42:26.800
<v Speaker 2>of trans backlash against Amelia Press, because every trans person

0:42:26.800 --> 0:42:29.040
<v Speaker 2>I know has opted out of seeing it, and they've

0:42:29.080 --> 0:42:31.719
<v Speaker 2>been very much like you know, I'm not at a

0:42:31.719 --> 0:42:34.319
<v Speaker 2>place where I can watch that right now, Like it's

0:42:34.880 --> 0:42:39.080
<v Speaker 2>I actually think the backlash is almost like manufactured by

0:42:39.560 --> 0:42:42.399
<v Speaker 2>sis people who are guilty about watching it or something.

0:42:42.440 --> 0:42:45.880
<v Speaker 2>And then like imagine an imaginary like mob of trans

0:42:45.880 --> 0:42:47.440
<v Speaker 2>people that are mad at Amelia Press.

0:42:47.880 --> 0:42:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think there's something to that. Yeah, there the

0:42:51.040 --> 0:42:54.799
<v Speaker 1>backlash is like I'm like, okay, like it does ye

0:42:55.080 --> 0:42:55.799
<v Speaker 1>are doing here.

0:42:55.960 --> 0:42:58.520
<v Speaker 2>It almost reminds me of my favorite topic, which is

0:42:58.520 --> 0:43:00.879
<v Speaker 2>the women that got sent to space and how we're

0:43:00.920 --> 0:43:04.000
<v Speaker 2>at a place where like something like that, which in

0:43:04.160 --> 0:43:06.359
<v Speaker 2>twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen would be like the big

0:43:06.400 --> 0:43:09.440
<v Speaker 2>news of the day. No one cares enough either to

0:43:09.480 --> 0:43:12.680
<v Speaker 2>be empowered by it or to be angry about it. Yeah,

0:43:12.719 --> 0:43:15.080
<v Speaker 2>it's just a numbness. It's just like a numbness. Like

0:43:15.440 --> 0:43:18.120
<v Speaker 2>don't can't you imagine like a time in like twenty

0:43:18.200 --> 0:43:22.040
<v Speaker 2>fifteen where like every website would be have like a

0:43:22.160 --> 0:43:25.840
<v Speaker 2>screed about like the pitfalls of girl bossery. Yeah, but

0:43:25.920 --> 0:43:27.400
<v Speaker 2>it's like no one gives a shit anymore.

0:43:27.480 --> 0:43:29.879
<v Speaker 4>No, I mean, it's just like but it's it's sort

0:43:29.920 --> 0:43:32.560
<v Speaker 4>of like also like we've seen this grift so many times.

0:43:32.640 --> 0:43:34.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah too, It's like we've seen it with like a

0:43:34.880 --> 0:43:36.880
<v Speaker 4>deep water submarine. We've seen it.

0:43:36.960 --> 0:43:40.520
<v Speaker 1>Like it's one kind of also ended in Amelia Press

0:43:40.560 --> 0:43:42.680
<v Speaker 1>with Yeah, that's true, I remember that.

0:43:42.680 --> 0:43:45.680
<v Speaker 4>That's it. If it I guess if that if they

0:43:45.719 --> 0:43:48.960
<v Speaker 4>had fallen down a mountain and explodage, Yes, the space

0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:51.080
<v Speaker 4>hip full of Katy Perry and gay okay and stuff,

0:43:51.120 --> 0:43:52.400
<v Speaker 4>people would have talked about.

0:43:52.160 --> 0:43:55.920
<v Speaker 1>Nory but that's what we need committed to sending a message.

0:43:56.040 --> 0:43:56.560
<v Speaker 1>They should have.

0:43:57.000 --> 0:43:59.520
<v Speaker 2>Committed to be creating a Melia pressed that would exploded.

0:43:59.760 --> 0:44:01.759
<v Speaker 2>But also it's almost like Ameili Prize is like the

0:44:01.800 --> 0:44:07.640
<v Speaker 2>transrepresentation version of women in Space for Girl Boss, where

0:44:07.680 --> 0:44:11.040
<v Speaker 2>it's like we've now gone through the conversation and not

0:44:11.080 --> 0:44:14.640
<v Speaker 2>just transrepresentation any kind of like representation politics. We've now

0:44:14.640 --> 0:44:16.680
<v Speaker 2>gone through the debate of like is it good is

0:44:16.680 --> 0:44:18.080
<v Speaker 2>a bad? Is it good as a bad? So many

0:44:18.120 --> 0:44:20.279
<v Speaker 2>times that something like a Melei Prize comes along and

0:44:20.320 --> 0:44:23.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm almost just like unable to even form an opinion

0:44:23.640 --> 0:44:27.040
<v Speaker 2>about it. Yeah, it's like remixing existing arguments that have

0:44:27.080 --> 0:44:28.080
<v Speaker 2>been had so many times.

0:44:28.200 --> 0:44:31.480
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, including even like the trans backlash, right, Yeah, like

0:44:31.520 --> 0:44:35.600
<v Speaker 4>the imagined mob of like of like somehow trans people

0:44:35.640 --> 0:44:38.040
<v Speaker 4>who all have the same opinion. Yeah, it's like you

0:44:38.080 --> 0:44:40.319
<v Speaker 4>have to you have not met trans people if you

0:44:40.320 --> 0:44:42.520
<v Speaker 4>think there's a mob of them that are somehow in

0:44:42.560 --> 0:44:45.200
<v Speaker 4>lockstep or like can I even like not just be

0:44:45.320 --> 0:44:48.359
<v Speaker 4>like cats like batting at each other if you put

0:44:48.400 --> 0:44:52.160
<v Speaker 4>them together, you know, like that is you that's imagined.

0:44:52.239 --> 0:44:56.839
<v Speaker 4>It's totally imagined situation that they can chant the same

0:44:56.880 --> 0:44:57.840
<v Speaker 4>thing at the same.

0:44:57.600 --> 0:45:04.279
<v Speaker 2>Time honestly goes back to the lesbian own business that's

0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:07.000
<v Speaker 2>doomed to fail. It's like they're not agreeing in those meetings.

0:45:07.640 --> 0:45:11.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean also in the Mask or the last story

0:45:11.080 --> 0:45:13.839
<v Speaker 1>of the book, it was that was very that where

0:45:13.880 --> 0:45:16.360
<v Speaker 1>it was like this is everyone's like, it's a meet up,

0:45:16.400 --> 0:45:18.040
<v Speaker 1>but everyone's on such a different page.

0:45:18.120 --> 0:45:21.799
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean sometimes it's like the when I talk

0:45:21.840 --> 0:45:24.160
<v Speaker 4>about that, it's like it's like we're all kind of

0:45:24.440 --> 0:45:27.200
<v Speaker 4>we're all kind of like standing in the same public square,

0:45:27.280 --> 0:45:29.680
<v Speaker 4>but like we we all came from like all four

0:45:29.719 --> 0:45:32.200
<v Speaker 4>cardinal directions, And if you'd be like, how do you

0:45:32.239 --> 0:45:34.680
<v Speaker 4>get here, it'd be like I came over that hill

0:45:34.760 --> 0:45:36.840
<v Speaker 4>and I saw a coward's like, I have no idea

0:45:37.120 --> 0:45:39.719
<v Speaker 4>what journey you took. I have no idea the landmarks

0:45:39.760 --> 0:45:42.520
<v Speaker 4>on your way. Like everything you're saying is alien and

0:45:42.560 --> 0:45:44.719
<v Speaker 4>strange to me. And the only thing that we have

0:45:44.840 --> 0:45:47.719
<v Speaker 4>is that we're kind of like standing in like like

0:45:47.760 --> 0:45:50.839
<v Speaker 4>a general vicinity. We're not on the same table. It's

0:45:50.880 --> 0:45:52.879
<v Speaker 4>like I see you, like, oh you had You're eating

0:45:52.920 --> 0:45:54.759
<v Speaker 4>ice cream and I'm having a coffee. You know.

0:45:55.280 --> 0:45:58.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it is interesting. I do feel like there's a

0:45:58.239 --> 0:46:03.280
<v Speaker 1>push to try to like make it seem like almost

0:46:03.280 --> 0:46:06.279
<v Speaker 1>like trans people are the like like gay guys, where

0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:09.000
<v Speaker 1>it's like the culture of gay guy is and it's

0:46:09.000 --> 0:46:10.440
<v Speaker 1>like it does it's not one to one.

0:46:10.560 --> 0:46:13.719
<v Speaker 4>Yeah yeah, yeah, But but I also think that like

0:46:13.760 --> 0:46:15.560
<v Speaker 4>that ends up being like the useful thing is it,

0:46:15.680 --> 0:46:18.400
<v Speaker 4>Like let's let's let's pretend that all trans people like

0:46:18.480 --> 0:46:21.160
<v Speaker 4>are out here in a mob telling telling us what

0:46:21.200 --> 0:46:23.640
<v Speaker 4>we can or can't say, and it's like, yeah, thats

0:46:23.719 --> 0:46:24.240
<v Speaker 4>just it's.

0:46:24.120 --> 0:46:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Not And they were all appointed by Biden.

0:46:26.360 --> 0:46:27.560
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, exact.

0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:31.600
<v Speaker 2>It was Biden appointed the trans mob.

0:46:32.520 --> 0:46:34.800
<v Speaker 1>The head of which was the Suitcase Steeler my favorite.

0:46:35.040 --> 0:46:38.840
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, yeah, that was a good Biden appointing.

0:46:39.000 --> 0:46:42.440
<v Speaker 1>That was that was like Biden kind of ate with

0:46:42.440 --> 0:46:42.799
<v Speaker 1>that one.

0:46:42.840 --> 0:46:48.760
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that was that that. I was just laughing picturing

0:46:48.840 --> 0:46:52.120
<v Speaker 4>that person and picturing also like the protests like that

0:46:52.120 --> 0:46:54.239
<v Speaker 4>that the way that that person protested, like that I

0:46:54.239 --> 0:46:55.680
<v Speaker 4>did steal suitcase.

0:46:55.320 --> 0:47:04.600
<v Speaker 1>But like wearing the outfits all over so genius. I Also,

0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:08.880
<v Speaker 1>now there's a thing I feel very conspiratorial around internet

0:47:08.920 --> 0:47:13.319
<v Speaker 1>backlash in general, because it feels like like websites are

0:47:13.320 --> 0:47:15.920
<v Speaker 1>basically like we need to find four tweets and then

0:47:15.920 --> 0:47:18.879
<v Speaker 1>we can say there's a backlash, and it's like it's

0:47:18.920 --> 0:47:19.480
<v Speaker 1>not about thought.

0:47:19.680 --> 0:47:22.440
<v Speaker 2>Also, but also I have become so conspiratory. I mean

0:47:22.440 --> 0:47:26.680
<v Speaker 2>I've become so conspiratorial about literally everything being paid bots,

0:47:27.120 --> 0:47:30.319
<v Speaker 2>which is I remember in when people were like when

0:47:30.400 --> 0:47:37.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm whatever, like the kind of stereotypical center lib, you know,

0:47:37.880 --> 0:47:41.200
<v Speaker 2>fifty year old post Trump was like the Russians Russian bots,

0:47:41.480 --> 0:47:43.840
<v Speaker 2>like it's Cambergenolytica, and I was like, oh god, you

0:47:43.840 --> 0:47:46.440
<v Speaker 2>guys need to get it together. Now I have become that.

0:47:46.600 --> 0:47:49.800
<v Speaker 2>But for like a thread that's like, you know, Azelia

0:47:49.840 --> 0:47:52.399
<v Speaker 2>bakes his worst moment, I'm like someone paid for that.

0:47:52.719 --> 0:47:55.440
<v Speaker 2>I the Blake Lively, like the Blake Lively thing. The

0:47:55.480 --> 0:47:57.640
<v Speaker 2>only conclusion I drew from that is like, Okay, so

0:47:57.680 --> 0:48:00.480
<v Speaker 2>it's all fake. There's no one actually mad that Blake

0:48:00.520 --> 0:48:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Lively or or there's no one that actually in their

0:48:03.719 --> 0:48:06.799
<v Speaker 2>mind is like, wow, she actually was really rude to

0:48:06.800 --> 0:48:09.760
<v Speaker 2>that interviewer. It's literally just like someone behind the scenes

0:48:09.800 --> 0:48:12.560
<v Speaker 2>that bleep agency.

0:48:12.880 --> 0:48:16.120
<v Speaker 4>But that is a very appealing worldview in Summay. That

0:48:16.160 --> 0:48:18.560
<v Speaker 4>actually makes you sound very chill like, even though it

0:48:18.600 --> 0:48:21.520
<v Speaker 4>makes you sound like you're like wearing. It's like also

0:48:21.560 --> 0:48:23.920
<v Speaker 4>like you're like the chilliest to netwhere you're like, it's

0:48:24.000 --> 0:48:28.760
<v Speaker 4>just it's just the bots to chill out. Everybody loves.

0:48:30.320 --> 0:48:32.560
<v Speaker 1>It's actually, yeah, it's kind of beautiful. You're even like,

0:48:32.640 --> 0:48:33.319
<v Speaker 1>no one's mad.

0:48:33.800 --> 0:48:38.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but then I'm also like the most well, I'm like,

0:48:38.040 --> 0:48:39.880
<v Speaker 2>no one's mad. But then I'm also like we're living

0:48:39.960 --> 0:48:42.200
<v Speaker 2>in like the last of Us post apocalyptic world because

0:48:42.239 --> 0:48:43.560
<v Speaker 2>no one knows what's real or what's fake.

0:48:44.480 --> 0:48:46.959
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but soon it'll all be over.

0:48:47.520 --> 0:48:51.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's true, kind of cheerful.

0:48:54.640 --> 0:49:01.640
<v Speaker 1>Who cares? They love you based podcast. I find it

0:49:01.640 --> 0:49:03.879
<v Speaker 1>to be a really powerful mantra.

0:49:05.400 --> 0:49:05.640
<v Speaker 4>You know.

0:49:06.120 --> 0:49:08.759
<v Speaker 1>I find it there's a silliness to it. There's a

0:49:08.800 --> 0:49:12.239
<v Speaker 1>sort of detachment to it. Yeah, And I think both

0:49:12.280 --> 0:49:14.640
<v Speaker 1>of those are really important right now, Tori, I want.

0:49:14.440 --> 0:49:16.759
<v Speaker 2>To give you a challenge, which is, you know, for

0:49:16.840 --> 0:49:19.160
<v Speaker 2>each of these stories, you experimented with a different genre.

0:49:19.239 --> 0:49:21.840
<v Speaker 2>I would love to see you experiment with the genre

0:49:21.920 --> 0:49:24.880
<v Speaker 2>of middle brow humor, essays of the type that you

0:49:24.880 --> 0:49:26.680
<v Speaker 2>find at airports. And I want you to write a

0:49:26.680 --> 0:49:34.000
<v Speaker 2>book that's called like, you know, someone's on my seat, not.

0:49:34.080 --> 0:49:35.960
<v Speaker 3>Me, writing a book for you to read on the

0:49:36.000 --> 0:49:38.200
<v Speaker 3>airplane and other concerns.

0:49:39.120 --> 0:49:41.480
<v Speaker 4>I would. I mean, I feel like that's actually like

0:49:41.640 --> 0:49:44.400
<v Speaker 4>the dream, yeah is it like you know, you get

0:49:44.440 --> 0:49:47.640
<v Speaker 4>like you get like a I feel like actually a

0:49:47.640 --> 0:49:51.399
<v Speaker 4>lot of like really great writers get to a point

0:49:51.400 --> 0:49:54.040
<v Speaker 4>in their life where they're like offered a cruise, you know,

0:49:54.360 --> 0:49:57.560
<v Speaker 4>and then cruises. Oh yeah, like the famous like David

0:49:57.600 --> 0:50:00.800
<v Speaker 4>Foster Wallace, like a supposedly fun that you've never yeah

0:50:00.719 --> 0:50:02.160
<v Speaker 4>where never done whatever it.

0:50:02.120 --> 0:50:03.479
<v Speaker 2>Is, I'll never do it again.

0:50:03.520 --> 0:50:05.759
<v Speaker 4>I'll never do it again. Like it's like it was

0:50:05.760 --> 0:50:07.799
<v Speaker 4>like he basically just like I get to go on

0:50:07.840 --> 0:50:10.200
<v Speaker 4>like a carnival cruise or whatever, and I'll like try

0:50:10.239 --> 0:50:13.400
<v Speaker 4>and elevate it. And then he was like riffing on

0:50:13.480 --> 0:50:16.160
<v Speaker 4>like Frank Conroy going on a carnival crew on some

0:50:16.200 --> 0:50:19.279
<v Speaker 4>other cruise where you get any st just did it?

0:50:19.320 --> 0:50:21.960
<v Speaker 4>Ger Steiner? I mean Gary Steiner loves to go on

0:50:22.000 --> 0:50:23.600
<v Speaker 4>like a paid travel thing like.

0:50:23.920 --> 0:50:25.960
<v Speaker 2>I know, but I'm also like I stand like.

0:50:25.920 --> 0:50:28.399
<v Speaker 4>I know absolutely, like I would love to hear him

0:50:28.440 --> 0:50:31.400
<v Speaker 4>like in dubibing like I'm eating chicken hearts and like

0:50:31.680 --> 0:50:33.759
<v Speaker 4>whatever it is. It's like and you got paid ten

0:50:33.800 --> 0:50:36.560
<v Speaker 4>thousand dollars to do this and like you don't care,

0:50:36.719 --> 0:50:39.040
<v Speaker 4>like the way I mean, I love the way that

0:50:39.239 --> 0:50:41.200
<v Speaker 4>Gary Steiner doesn't care that it was like I just

0:50:41.239 --> 0:50:44.560
<v Speaker 4>wrote an entire novel about roll Axis. You know that's

0:50:44.560 --> 0:50:47.080
<v Speaker 4>like that's just I have a nice watch. I like

0:50:47.160 --> 0:50:50.359
<v Speaker 4>my watch, and now that's my novel. Like I kind

0:50:50.360 --> 0:50:54.520
<v Speaker 4>of appreciate his like his like just just what I've

0:50:54.560 --> 0:50:58.279
<v Speaker 4>gotten recently for free is the thing that interests me.

0:50:59.080 --> 0:50:59.880
<v Speaker 4>And I understand.

0:51:00.239 --> 0:51:02.359
<v Speaker 3>You know when you said writers go on cruise, I

0:51:02.400 --> 0:51:04.160
<v Speaker 3>was thinking about like how comedians going.

0:51:04.600 --> 0:51:04.840
<v Speaker 4>I was.

0:51:07.200 --> 0:51:07.960
<v Speaker 1>Like, they're performing.

0:51:08.040 --> 0:51:11.640
<v Speaker 4>I mean it's sort of similar though, like Lauren Oiler

0:51:11.680 --> 0:51:12.799
<v Speaker 4>went on the Goop.

0:51:12.640 --> 0:51:14.640
<v Speaker 2>Cruise this podcast.

0:51:14.680 --> 0:51:17.319
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Lauren Oiler did it and did like and did

0:51:17.320 --> 0:51:20.120
<v Speaker 4>the same you know, very very funny, but did the

0:51:20.160 --> 0:51:22.560
<v Speaker 4>same thing. Where it's like, now that I'm on a

0:51:22.600 --> 0:51:25.239
<v Speaker 4>cruise as a writer, I'm going to reference every other

0:51:25.239 --> 0:51:27.480
<v Speaker 4>writer who is on a cruise as a sort of

0:51:27.640 --> 0:51:30.839
<v Speaker 4>like way of like this is a literary tradition and

0:51:31.040 --> 0:51:33.120
<v Speaker 4>also I got a free cruise, Like.

0:51:33.320 --> 0:51:36.080
<v Speaker 2>I think it's great. I know that people do roll

0:51:36.080 --> 0:51:39.799
<v Speaker 2>their eyes at that genre, but I'm like it's fun

0:51:39.840 --> 0:51:43.239
<v Speaker 2>to it's fun for something to be like a thing

0:51:43.280 --> 0:51:45.399
<v Speaker 2>you revisit. I'm trying to think of like what an

0:51:45.400 --> 0:51:51.400
<v Speaker 2>equivalent thing is for It's like even honestly Chelsea Pretty

0:51:51.480 --> 0:51:54.359
<v Speaker 2>and her special when she's like every comedian, every male

0:51:54.400 --> 0:51:57.640
<v Speaker 2>comedian fucks the stool, like doesn't act where they fuck

0:51:57.719 --> 0:51:59.280
<v Speaker 2>the stool, and so Chelsea.

0:51:59.000 --> 0:51:59.960
<v Speaker 4>How do you make it yours?

0:52:00.120 --> 0:52:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean yours? And so Chelsea's thing is like

0:52:03.239 --> 0:52:05.080
<v Speaker 2>I want to sort of riff on that by doing

0:52:06.320 --> 0:52:08.520
<v Speaker 2>For me, it's I'm passively taking it from the stool.

0:52:09.000 --> 0:52:12.719
<v Speaker 2>She's just like is like right by the stool, and

0:52:12.719 --> 0:52:14.279
<v Speaker 2>she's just like sitting there and then she's like and

0:52:14.360 --> 0:52:16.560
<v Speaker 2>then things got crazy and she turns around in her butt.

0:52:17.600 --> 0:52:21.040
<v Speaker 2>She's just sitting there. But it's like, yeah, that's actually

0:52:21.080 --> 0:52:21.880
<v Speaker 2>what culture is.

0:52:22.200 --> 0:52:25.200
<v Speaker 1>No, it's it's how you interpret it and reference it. Yeah.

0:52:25.200 --> 0:52:27.720
<v Speaker 4>I mean, if someone offered me a cruise at this point,

0:52:27.760 --> 0:52:30.000
<v Speaker 4>it's like got such a tradition that I wouldn't just

0:52:30.040 --> 0:52:31.640
<v Speaker 4>be like I would of course be like I'm a

0:52:31.640 --> 0:52:34.319
<v Speaker 4>little bit selling out and I'm taking the cruise, but

0:52:34.360 --> 0:52:37.200
<v Speaker 4>I would also be like like sort of like I'm

0:52:37.280 --> 0:52:41.799
<v Speaker 4>in that camp, like I'm more an oiler you engouraged. Yeah,

0:52:42.080 --> 0:52:45.520
<v Speaker 4>kir Stein guard camp like that's quite uh, I'm quite

0:52:45.560 --> 0:52:48.959
<v Speaker 4>honored to be to be offered the chance to sell

0:52:49.000 --> 0:52:53.800
<v Speaker 4>out for a cruise, and I mean I would Yeah.

0:52:53.640 --> 0:52:59.960
<v Speaker 1>No, you don't, well, cruise directors, Yeah, this is mags

0:53:01.160 --> 0:53:01.560
<v Speaker 1>mm hmm.

0:53:02.280 --> 0:53:06.480
<v Speaker 2>Although you know, cruises are actually really scary because did

0:53:06.480 --> 0:53:09.560
<v Speaker 2>you read that New York mag piece about cruises about

0:53:09.560 --> 0:53:12.080
<v Speaker 2>the people that got left behind and then could not

0:53:12.160 --> 0:53:15.759
<v Speaker 2>make their way back. So there are these people on

0:53:15.800 --> 0:53:18.400
<v Speaker 2>a cruise and they like they were dropped off at

0:53:18.440 --> 0:53:21.920
<v Speaker 2>one of the stops and then we're like running to

0:53:21.920 --> 0:53:23.520
<v Speaker 2>get back on the cruisehip, but the cruise ship left

0:53:23.520 --> 0:53:27.960
<v Speaker 2>without them, and then it describes this they weren't Basically

0:53:28.280 --> 0:53:31.560
<v Speaker 2>cruise ships have no liability whatsoever, like no laws applied

0:53:31.600 --> 0:53:34.399
<v Speaker 2>to them. People like a shocking number of people die

0:53:34.400 --> 0:53:36.400
<v Speaker 2>on cruise every year and no one is held accountable.

0:53:36.640 --> 0:53:38.160
<v Speaker 2>These people were trying to get back on the cruise

0:53:38.160 --> 0:53:39.560
<v Speaker 2>and the cruise was just like we don't care, like

0:53:39.600 --> 0:53:42.640
<v Speaker 2>we're just gonna like do our thing. They had medical

0:53:42.640 --> 0:53:44.759
<v Speaker 2>issues that they didn't have their medicine for because the

0:53:44.760 --> 0:53:47.440
<v Speaker 2>medicine was still on the cruise. It's like this insane

0:53:47.480 --> 0:53:51.640
<v Speaker 2>thing that you're sort of like basically just putting your

0:53:51.640 --> 0:53:53.960
<v Speaker 2>life in their hand and the cruise ship company's hands.

0:53:54.360 --> 0:53:56.239
<v Speaker 4>It's like the law of the sea applies, is like

0:53:56.320 --> 0:53:57.000
<v Speaker 4>maritime law.

0:53:57.160 --> 0:54:01.240
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's a combination of that and also some version

0:54:01.280 --> 0:54:06.000
<v Speaker 2>of basically cruise company lobbying such that they're very loosely regulated.

0:54:06.040 --> 0:54:07.440
<v Speaker 4>And I guess I sort of hear about that this

0:54:07.520 --> 0:54:10.200
<v Speaker 4>sort of like weird ghost ships of like cruise cruise

0:54:10.200 --> 0:54:12.719
<v Speaker 4>ships for everybody has neuro virus at the same.

0:54:12.600 --> 0:54:15.160
<v Speaker 2>Time, and like, and the most scary thing is that

0:54:15.360 --> 0:54:18.080
<v Speaker 2>cruise people like people that because the thing with cruise

0:54:18.080 --> 0:54:21.480
<v Speaker 2>people is that most people on a cruise our serial

0:54:21.520 --> 0:54:24.360
<v Speaker 2>cruise ship go right. It's like a cult. And so

0:54:25.200 --> 0:54:27.759
<v Speaker 2>when you raise these points to them, it's like you're

0:54:27.760 --> 0:54:30.640
<v Speaker 2>talking with scientologists. Like they don't accept, Like you'll be

0:54:30.719 --> 0:54:34.160
<v Speaker 2>like they're because the bridget read the writer who wrote

0:54:34.160 --> 0:54:36.760
<v Speaker 2>the story like interviewed a lot of cruise ship people,

0:54:37.040 --> 0:54:39.880
<v Speaker 2>and they like would not accept that cruise ship companies

0:54:39.880 --> 0:54:41.719
<v Speaker 2>make mistakes, like they were just and they would be

0:54:41.760 --> 0:54:44.160
<v Speaker 2>mad at the people who got left and they were like, well,

0:54:44.200 --> 0:54:45.600
<v Speaker 2>they told us, like you have to be back by

0:54:45.640 --> 0:54:48.280
<v Speaker 2>ten fifty five, even while someone's dying.

0:54:48.400 --> 0:54:50.479
<v Speaker 4>That is very religious sort of.

0:54:50.520 --> 0:54:53.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well this is maybe a point to we need

0:54:53.840 --> 0:54:57.719
<v Speaker 1>to sort of lower the bar for the type of

0:54:57.960 --> 0:54:59.840
<v Speaker 1>like the writer that can go on a cruise ship.

0:55:00.200 --> 0:55:02.160
<v Speaker 1>You shouldn't. It shouldn't be like sort of you've made

0:55:02.360 --> 0:55:04.200
<v Speaker 1>a really successful career and now you get to do

0:55:04.280 --> 0:55:07.200
<v Speaker 1>cruise ship. They need to get beginning journalists out there.

0:55:07.239 --> 0:55:09.600
<v Speaker 1>It should be an unpaid on paid internership, because we

0:55:09.640 --> 0:55:12.200
<v Speaker 1>need more journalists on cruise ships to uncover what is

0:55:12.239 --> 0:55:12.680
<v Speaker 1>going on.

0:55:12.880 --> 0:55:15.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that's true enough sort of.

0:55:15.160 --> 0:55:18.080
<v Speaker 1>Language about what it means to be on a cruise

0:55:18.120 --> 0:55:19.840
<v Speaker 1>and more about like the crimes that are being committed.

0:55:20.080 --> 0:55:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Actually, I have a question for your toy. We were

0:55:21.920 --> 0:55:24.120
<v Speaker 2>talking about this at some point, what with the contemporary

0:55:24.239 --> 0:55:27.879
<v Speaker 2>version of specifically David Foster Wallis in that era going

0:55:27.920 --> 0:55:30.239
<v Speaker 2>on a cruise should be like, yes, the writer going

0:55:30.280 --> 0:55:32.440
<v Speaker 2>on a cruise is a tradition and everyone does it,

0:55:32.440 --> 0:55:36.040
<v Speaker 2>but at this point it's so referenced, it's so referencing

0:55:36.160 --> 0:55:39.640
<v Speaker 2>past cruise ships that it's barely about like it's not

0:55:39.800 --> 0:55:42.960
<v Speaker 2>really about like what it says about society that we

0:55:43.040 --> 0:55:45.360
<v Speaker 2>go on cruise ships. Like the contemporary thing would be

0:55:45.400 --> 0:55:50.160
<v Speaker 2>something like what is so like Lynchean and postmodern about

0:55:50.200 --> 0:55:53.040
<v Speaker 2>society that you that someone would comment on like is

0:55:53.080 --> 0:55:55.600
<v Speaker 2>it going to like an influencer conference, is it going

0:55:55.640 --> 0:55:58.360
<v Speaker 2>to like what is so depraved about our society that

0:55:58.480 --> 0:56:02.080
<v Speaker 2>now you would want like a high brow writer to

0:56:02.239 --> 0:56:04.319
<v Speaker 2>perform analysisan.

0:56:03.680 --> 0:56:05.080
<v Speaker 4>Okay, well I have two thoughts on that.

0:56:05.160 --> 0:56:05.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:56:05.400 --> 0:56:07.640
<v Speaker 4>One is that I feel like this, like one of

0:56:07.640 --> 0:56:09.680
<v Speaker 4>the things that's happened is that this genre has been

0:56:09.719 --> 0:56:12.080
<v Speaker 4>like sort of exhausted, like we're going to find the

0:56:12.160 --> 0:56:16.160
<v Speaker 4>lynching thing so like even and it ends up becoming

0:56:16.200 --> 0:56:19.520
<v Speaker 4>like depraved in the practice of it. Yes, Like I

0:56:19.560 --> 0:56:21.520
<v Speaker 4>feel like the number of writers who are like I'm

0:56:21.520 --> 0:56:23.279
<v Speaker 4>going to like a right I'm going to go hang

0:56:23.320 --> 0:56:26.080
<v Speaker 4>out with like right wing influencers and try and like

0:56:26.280 --> 0:56:30.520
<v Speaker 4>make them interesting to us, Like I'm the it makes

0:56:30.520 --> 0:56:31.040
<v Speaker 4>me like sick.

0:56:31.120 --> 0:56:32.640
<v Speaker 2>It's like a Morley bankrupt project.

0:56:32.760 --> 0:56:34.919
<v Speaker 4>It's like this this this idea of like, oh, we're

0:56:34.920 --> 0:56:36.719
<v Speaker 4>just going to find out what the what the you know,

0:56:36.719 --> 0:56:38.480
<v Speaker 4>we're gonna find out what the fascist think, you know,

0:56:38.600 --> 0:56:40.719
<v Speaker 4>at their little and their little fashion like oh they

0:56:40.719 --> 0:56:43.560
<v Speaker 4>wear this hat or they wear this shoe. Ooh interesting.

0:56:43.920 --> 0:56:46.399
<v Speaker 4>It's like that's we're no longer like at the State

0:56:46.480 --> 0:56:49.480
<v Speaker 4>Fair with David Foster Wallis where like we're laundering something

0:56:49.560 --> 0:56:52.120
<v Speaker 4>when we do this. So I'm like, I'm kind of

0:56:52.840 --> 0:56:56.759
<v Speaker 4>like I'm kind of like in the typical magazine version

0:56:56.800 --> 0:56:59.440
<v Speaker 4>of this, I'm like this this thing is it doesn't

0:56:59.440 --> 0:57:02.399
<v Speaker 4>work anyway are now? And so like, because I too

0:57:02.480 --> 0:57:05.800
<v Speaker 4>am always like what what is a great magazine assignment

0:57:05.840 --> 0:57:07.680
<v Speaker 4>that I could like picture myself where I get to

0:57:07.719 --> 0:57:10.120
<v Speaker 4>go do something kind of enjoyable and eat nice food

0:57:10.960 --> 0:57:13.840
<v Speaker 4>and you know, I absolutely want that, you know, and

0:57:13.840 --> 0:57:15.760
<v Speaker 4>and that I but then I could also be saying

0:57:15.840 --> 0:57:18.080
<v Speaker 4>something while I'm doing it, and like most of the

0:57:18.120 --> 0:57:20.120
<v Speaker 4>things I could be saying are like kind of awful

0:57:20.160 --> 0:57:24.280
<v Speaker 4>at this point. But I will say that I think

0:57:24.400 --> 0:57:27.720
<v Speaker 4>that probably the frontiers on this are like I would

0:57:27.720 --> 0:57:31.680
<v Speaker 4>like to see a serious writer take on Discord Gooning.

0:57:33.960 --> 0:57:37.840
<v Speaker 3>No, this is so good, Yeah, that would like I

0:57:37.840 --> 0:57:40.240
<v Speaker 3>feel like it's not not a thing in life, but

0:57:40.320 --> 0:57:44.880
<v Speaker 3>like that there's like whole like cultures that like I

0:57:44.920 --> 0:57:48.400
<v Speaker 3>need somebody that are like that are like not like, oh,

0:57:48.440 --> 0:57:50.080
<v Speaker 3>it's like a great place you go to, but like

0:57:50.160 --> 0:57:53.160
<v Speaker 3>the like I didn't know about Discord Gooning until like

0:57:53.320 --> 0:57:58.000
<v Speaker 3>last year, and then I was like fascinated with discord gooning, and.

0:57:58.320 --> 0:57:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Can you actually explain what it is?

0:58:00.280 --> 0:58:03.160
<v Speaker 4>So like you have like whatever your fetish is, right,

0:58:03.560 --> 0:58:07.880
<v Speaker 4>it's like there's discords, yeah, right where your thing is.

0:58:08.320 --> 0:58:11.160
<v Speaker 4>You sign under a discord and there's like there's like

0:58:12.320 --> 0:58:15.760
<v Speaker 4>thousands of other people on these discords and that like

0:58:16.520 --> 0:58:19.200
<v Speaker 4>then you like spend all day gooning, you know, like

0:58:19.760 --> 0:58:23.000
<v Speaker 4>but but like it's it's like so it's like it's

0:58:23.080 --> 0:58:26.360
<v Speaker 4>like I knew about this basic thing from like chat

0:58:26.480 --> 0:58:28.200
<v Speaker 4>when I was like okay, they're like, oh, like you

0:58:28.240 --> 0:58:31.360
<v Speaker 4>know asl like age sex, and then you're kind of

0:58:31.360 --> 0:58:33.080
<v Speaker 4>like I'm in it with you. I'm like doing a thing.

0:58:33.400 --> 0:58:39.040
<v Speaker 4>But it's like so overwhelmingly like like sensory attack now

0:58:39.360 --> 0:58:41.600
<v Speaker 4>where it's like you can be in voice channels, you

0:58:41.640 --> 0:58:44.040
<v Speaker 4>can be like you're gooning with other people in voice channels,

0:58:44.080 --> 0:58:47.720
<v Speaker 4>you're sending them every two seconds like some porn that's

0:58:47.760 --> 0:58:51.360
<v Speaker 4>like their triggers. Like you're like breaking each other's brains

0:58:52.120 --> 0:58:56.080
<v Speaker 4>in the discord goon you know, as you're just masturbating

0:58:56.120 --> 0:58:58.600
<v Speaker 4>for like you know, on adderall for hours and hours

0:58:58.600 --> 0:59:01.360
<v Speaker 4>and hours. So you have like like in marathon endurance

0:59:01.400 --> 0:59:05.200
<v Speaker 4>for it and like and then and to me, I'm

0:59:05.240 --> 0:59:09.200
<v Speaker 4>just like this explains so much, Like like I kind

0:59:09.240 --> 0:59:11.600
<v Speaker 4>of like when I see people, I'm like and I'm like,

0:59:11.640 --> 0:59:13.040
<v Speaker 4>why are they doing this thing? It's like, well, they're

0:59:13.040 --> 0:59:16.760
<v Speaker 4>probably coming off of like twenty two hours of gooning,

0:59:17.240 --> 0:59:18.400
<v Speaker 4>like I also would be making.

0:59:18.520 --> 0:59:20.840
<v Speaker 1>I never know where you never know what people are

0:59:20.840 --> 0:59:22.600
<v Speaker 1>going through. I'm so glad you brought this up. I

0:59:22.680 --> 0:59:26.600
<v Speaker 1>learned about discord like jerk off groups recently, yeah, and

0:59:26.640 --> 0:59:30.720
<v Speaker 1>I have it. Luckily I'm technically untalented, so I haven't

0:59:30.760 --> 0:59:32.880
<v Speaker 1>found my way in. Yeah, but I was like, well,

0:59:32.920 --> 0:59:34.000
<v Speaker 1>I've got to check that out.

0:59:34.040 --> 0:59:36.120
<v Speaker 4>There is a level of tech to do it that

0:59:36.280 --> 0:59:38.800
<v Speaker 4>is like that is like like I wanted to. I

0:59:38.840 --> 0:59:40.760
<v Speaker 4>wanted to see it, And I'm like, you have to

0:59:40.760 --> 0:59:43.320
<v Speaker 4>really be invested. But I feel like once you're invested,

0:59:43.400 --> 0:59:47.200
<v Speaker 4>like it seems that the payoffs are hot. It's like

0:59:47.960 --> 0:59:50.360
<v Speaker 4>it's like once you're in, you're like I'm set, Like

0:59:50.440 --> 0:59:52.040
<v Speaker 4>I don't need the real world anymore.

0:59:52.040 --> 0:59:54.760
<v Speaker 1>It's great that people are getting weirder in a way

0:59:54.760 --> 0:59:58.680
<v Speaker 1>that I am finding myself curious about. Like I am

0:59:58.800 --> 1:00:01.640
<v Speaker 1>like I follow a guy on porn Twitter that like

1:00:01.640 --> 1:00:05.280
<v Speaker 1>like puts his full id up and it's just like

1:00:05.440 --> 1:00:09.200
<v Speaker 1>just to humiliate me. And I'm like wow, he puts

1:00:09.240 --> 1:00:11.560
<v Speaker 1>his phone over. He's like just text me and tell

1:00:11.560 --> 1:00:13.920
<v Speaker 1>me I'm pitiful, and I'm like this is weird.

1:00:14.040 --> 1:00:17.120
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And I just don't think that like real life

1:00:18.200 --> 1:00:23.400
<v Speaker 4>can can achieve that level of like like dopamine sensory humiliation.

1:00:24.000 --> 1:00:27.600
<v Speaker 4>Like if it's like I I was weird, you know,

1:00:27.800 --> 1:00:30.080
<v Speaker 4>like on the street and like some people are just

1:00:30.200 --> 1:00:32.920
<v Speaker 4>like and like you know, a few people snickered and

1:00:32.960 --> 1:00:35.440
<v Speaker 4>you're like I was mildly humiliated. But when you have

1:00:35.520 --> 1:00:39.600
<v Speaker 4>like twenty thousand people on the internet damn doing that,

1:00:39.640 --> 1:00:44.760
<v Speaker 4>it's like you're the sensory overload that is possible for

1:00:44.840 --> 1:00:48.439
<v Speaker 4>this kind of thing. Now is is so fascinating, Like.

1:00:48.480 --> 1:00:50.680
<v Speaker 1>Well and then that needs me over like becomes the

1:00:50.760 --> 1:00:53.600
<v Speaker 1>point like I've seen so many things of like porn

1:00:53.720 --> 1:00:56.800
<v Speaker 1>is my life, Like I will, yeah, like quit your

1:00:56.840 --> 1:00:59.680
<v Speaker 1>family and watch porn and like it's like crazy where

1:00:59.720 --> 1:01:02.920
<v Speaker 1>it's like the like religion of porn becomes like the

1:01:03.000 --> 1:01:03.560
<v Speaker 1>new thing.

1:01:04.000 --> 1:01:07.280
<v Speaker 4>And I need a respectable writer who's not part of

1:01:07.280 --> 1:01:09.280
<v Speaker 4>this to like get I want like Barbara King Solver

1:01:11.480 --> 1:01:14.200
<v Speaker 4>just like doing you know this is the culture of gooning.

1:01:14.280 --> 1:01:15.560
<v Speaker 4>I've uncovered it.

1:01:16.240 --> 1:01:21.040
<v Speaker 1>That's so genius. You know, we started this horny and

1:01:21.040 --> 1:01:23.439
<v Speaker 1>we're ending in horn I really appreciate that.

1:01:24.280 --> 1:01:26.240
<v Speaker 4>I want them to like uncover the big goon.

1:01:28.040 --> 1:01:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Big the big goon has not been exposed.

1:01:31.440 --> 1:01:34.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And you know what's actually sick is like so

1:01:34.280 --> 1:01:37.960
<v Speaker 2>many people are hypocrites and are so sex positive in

1:01:38.000 --> 1:01:40.080
<v Speaker 2>their writing and then their adages and whatever, and they

1:01:40.120 --> 1:01:43.680
<v Speaker 2>would absolutely cower the night of the Big Goon. They

1:01:43.680 --> 1:01:45.800
<v Speaker 2>would not have the bravery to look at the.

1:01:47.800 --> 1:01:49.120
<v Speaker 4>It's like strap on their pith.

1:01:50.960 --> 1:01:51.280
<v Speaker 3>Damn.

1:01:52.360 --> 1:01:54.760
<v Speaker 1>Barbara King Solver, if you're listening, this is yours.

1:01:54.760 --> 1:01:55.560
<v Speaker 2>This is your moment.

1:01:55.600 --> 1:01:58.200
<v Speaker 4>It's great that you got the pulitzer, but can you

1:01:58.280 --> 1:02:00.440
<v Speaker 4>can you face the big good? Yeah?

1:02:00.600 --> 1:02:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Wow?

1:02:01.400 --> 1:02:04.360
<v Speaker 1>Wow, Well that was amazing.

1:02:04.440 --> 1:02:06.560
<v Speaker 2>I think we should we do our final any final

1:02:06.600 --> 1:02:09.760
<v Speaker 2>thoughts on on prolonged divorce as a straight.

1:02:11.040 --> 1:02:15.240
<v Speaker 4>No, I just just just rip the band off, like

1:02:15.360 --> 1:02:17.040
<v Speaker 4>I think. I'll just say, I think it should be

1:02:17.040 --> 1:02:17.960
<v Speaker 4>a four month process.

1:02:18.280 --> 1:02:18.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow.

1:02:18.960 --> 1:02:20.960
<v Speaker 4>I think if we're going to do an arbitrary thing,

1:02:21.240 --> 1:02:24.280
<v Speaker 4>I think from proposing your divorce to filing it, four

1:02:24.320 --> 1:02:27.360
<v Speaker 4>months is reasonable. That's real and you can still be

1:02:27.400 --> 1:02:30.000
<v Speaker 4>it's a gay marriage if you're if you've been doing

1:02:30.000 --> 1:02:32.640
<v Speaker 4>it in four months, anything after that, you're in a

1:02:32.640 --> 1:02:33.360
<v Speaker 4>straight marriage.

1:02:33.760 --> 1:02:37.400
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Wow, yeah you heard of your greatest marriage, Brandelina. Yeah,

1:02:37.400 --> 1:02:41.400
<v Speaker 2>they're still going. Oh I think they're still divorcing. Am

1:02:41.400 --> 1:02:41.720
<v Speaker 2>I wrong?

1:02:41.840 --> 1:02:42.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah?

1:02:43.000 --> 1:02:45.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like it's been years. I had no idea,

1:02:46.040 --> 1:02:47.800
<v Speaker 2>and they are actually, if you think about it, sort

1:02:47.800 --> 1:02:51.480
<v Speaker 2>of the archetypal straight American couple. Yeah, of this generation.

1:02:51.760 --> 1:02:53.880
<v Speaker 4>I think like you don't have to like have everything

1:02:53.960 --> 1:02:56.120
<v Speaker 4>settled after four months, Like if you're like them and

1:02:56.160 --> 1:02:59.080
<v Speaker 4>you own like a rose wine thing, it's.

1:02:58.960 --> 1:02:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Like who gets the rose?

1:03:00.120 --> 1:03:02.360
<v Speaker 4>It's that is like that's difficult to me.

1:03:02.520 --> 1:03:04.240
<v Speaker 1>That's different paperwork, and that's the lawyers.

1:03:04.800 --> 1:03:06.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but you know you have to like settle that

1:03:06.920 --> 1:03:13.760
<v Speaker 4>we are gonna split up the Rose ey yes, yeah, yeah.

1:03:12.160 --> 1:03:16.360
<v Speaker 2>They finalized December. We're getting word that they finalized December

1:03:16.360 --> 1:03:17.080
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four.

1:03:17.080 --> 1:03:21.400
<v Speaker 3>We have once again spread misinformation and December twenty twenty four,

1:03:21.520 --> 1:03:23.640
<v Speaker 3>huh huh still pretty recent.

1:03:24.080 --> 1:03:26.439
<v Speaker 2>You know, the rose is not bad. Oh I tried

1:03:26.480 --> 1:03:30.360
<v Speaker 2>it recently. Anyway, Let's do our final segment.

1:03:33.600 --> 1:03:35.959
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Tori. Our final segment is called shout outs. In

1:03:35.960 --> 1:03:38.520
<v Speaker 1>this segment, we pay homage to the grand straight tradition

1:03:38.640 --> 1:03:42.040
<v Speaker 1>of the radio shout out, shouting out to anything that

1:03:42.080 --> 1:03:45.640
<v Speaker 1>we are enjoying, people, places, things, ideas. Imagine it twousand

1:03:45.680 --> 1:03:47.320
<v Speaker 1>and one. You're at TRL shouting out to your squad

1:03:47.360 --> 1:03:48.520
<v Speaker 1>back home, and we have to think.

1:03:48.920 --> 1:03:50.480
<v Speaker 2>We have to think about it on the spot, which

1:03:50.520 --> 1:03:52.280
<v Speaker 2>is why I have my thinking base.

1:03:52.120 --> 1:03:54.520
<v Speaker 1>On here's okay, I have one, I have one?

1:03:54.680 --> 1:03:59.160
<v Speaker 5>Okay, what's up freaks, loss and perverts around the globe.

1:03:59.320 --> 1:04:02.560
<v Speaker 5>I want to give a shout out to listening to

1:04:02.680 --> 1:04:06.320
<v Speaker 5>different music in different locations and having it hit different.

1:04:06.840 --> 1:04:10.120
<v Speaker 1>I you know, this is sort of a basic concept,

1:04:10.200 --> 1:04:15.160
<v Speaker 1>but sometimes, you know, as I've been living in Los Angeles,

1:04:15.160 --> 1:04:18.360
<v Speaker 1>some music I'm like, seeing it makes sense more, and

1:04:18.400 --> 1:04:20.120
<v Speaker 1>some music I've been like, I know this is good,

1:04:20.160 --> 1:04:21.400
<v Speaker 1>and I know that I like this, but it's not

1:04:21.480 --> 1:04:23.960
<v Speaker 1>hitting as hard as I want. Today I was walking

1:04:24.000 --> 1:04:26.160
<v Speaker 1>through New York City and I was taking the subway,

1:04:26.200 --> 1:04:28.040
<v Speaker 1>and I said, it's time to put on Okay, Lou

1:04:28.400 --> 1:04:30.320
<v Speaker 1>and guess what. It was hitting harder than it's hit

1:04:30.400 --> 1:04:32.560
<v Speaker 1>ever before in my whole life. I already liked it,

1:04:32.600 --> 1:04:34.400
<v Speaker 1>but it's time I was like, damn the subways, like

1:04:34.480 --> 1:04:38.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm underwater, like I was in heaven. I felt cool.

1:04:38.400 --> 1:04:41.080
<v Speaker 1>I felt like, you know, this used to be my life,

1:04:41.160 --> 1:04:44.040
<v Speaker 1>and you know, I one day hope to be cool again.

1:04:44.440 --> 1:04:47.120
<v Speaker 1>But that is neither here nor there. But it is

1:04:47.160 --> 1:04:49.479
<v Speaker 1>on the subway listening to Okay Lou, New York City,

1:04:49.560 --> 1:04:52.520
<v Speaker 1>I Love you xoxo Sam whoo wait.

1:04:53.080 --> 1:04:57.080
<v Speaker 2>My version of this so my dad's favorite musical artist

1:04:57.080 --> 1:05:00.000
<v Speaker 2>when I was growing up with Shade. Now, Shade famously

1:05:00.160 --> 1:05:04.560
<v Speaker 2>is like sexy music, and I think I will finally

1:05:04.600 --> 1:05:09.000
<v Speaker 2>be liberated when I can recontextualize Shade as something sexy

1:05:09.080 --> 1:05:10.560
<v Speaker 2>rather than something that reminds me of my father.

1:05:11.040 --> 1:05:13.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I find myself like and I can't

1:05:13.320 --> 1:05:16.160
<v Speaker 1>like I I it's you'll get there. Yeah, you just

1:05:16.160 --> 1:05:17.000
<v Speaker 1>need new context.

1:05:17.000 --> 1:05:20.400
<v Speaker 2>I need, I need, I need smoking, I need, honestly discordgooning,

1:05:21.080 --> 1:05:23.480
<v Speaker 2>but for shaphones.

1:05:23.880 --> 1:05:28.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've I'm finding myself listening to him constantly in

1:05:28.280 --> 1:05:30.480
<v Speaker 1>LA because I'm like, well this is makes sense, that.

1:05:30.480 --> 1:05:32.800
<v Speaker 4>Does make sense and now that yeah, it's like st sunny.

1:05:33.080 --> 1:05:35.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And today I was like should I put on

1:05:35.040 --> 1:05:37.479
<v Speaker 1>a hem? And I was like, why not? It's cool?

1:05:38.160 --> 1:05:39.200
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't make any sense.

1:05:39.640 --> 1:05:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, what's up, fashionist does? I want to give a

1:05:42.840 --> 1:05:47.040
<v Speaker 2>shout out to the brand Marrow, the shoe brand Marrow.

1:05:47.480 --> 1:05:49.640
<v Speaker 2>It is so difficult right now to shop for shoes

1:05:49.720 --> 1:05:55.320
<v Speaker 2>because of the sort of constant TikTok semi ironic reappropriation

1:05:55.400 --> 1:05:58.720
<v Speaker 2>of every floating signifier that constantly exists. It is impossible

1:05:58.720 --> 1:06:01.760
<v Speaker 2>to know whether something you are wearing signifies that you

1:06:01.800 --> 1:06:03.760
<v Speaker 2>are basic, that you are young, that you are old,

1:06:03.760 --> 1:06:05.760
<v Speaker 2>that you're all trying to be young, that you are

1:06:06.040 --> 1:06:08.560
<v Speaker 2>trying to be hype beastie. And there is something about

1:06:08.920 --> 1:06:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Maryl brand shoes that almost transcends that. I think it

1:06:13.000 --> 1:06:15.880
<v Speaker 2>has been appropriated and reappropriated so many times that you

1:06:15.920 --> 1:06:18.440
<v Speaker 2>can they can basically be whatever you want them to be,

1:06:18.800 --> 1:06:20.760
<v Speaker 2>and you sort of can get away with wearing them

1:06:20.840 --> 1:06:23.440
<v Speaker 2>and they just like accommodate you the rest of your style.

1:06:23.720 --> 1:06:26.080
<v Speaker 2>And so I am this is the Meryl pledge. I

1:06:26.120 --> 1:06:29.360
<v Speaker 2>am buying a pair of Marraals in the next calendar month,

1:06:29.400 --> 1:06:30.920
<v Speaker 2>and that's gonna be my new look. It's gonna be

1:06:30.960 --> 1:06:34.000
<v Speaker 2>my Kamala blazer is I'm gonna wear Marrels and I

1:06:34.040 --> 1:06:35.920
<v Speaker 2>just want to think them for everything. They've contributed to

1:06:35.960 --> 1:06:40.960
<v Speaker 2>both straight, queer, gay all cultures because they have something

1:06:41.000 --> 1:06:43.840
<v Speaker 2>really wearing the Lilia was wearing them last night and

1:06:43.960 --> 1:06:45.800
<v Speaker 2>so shout out to Meryl. I don't know if they

1:06:45.800 --> 1:06:48.200
<v Speaker 2>are an ethical company, but I will do my research

1:06:48.240 --> 1:06:56.720
<v Speaker 2>after this. Yeah, that's my beautiful Tori. Whenever you're ready,

1:06:56.880 --> 1:06:59.560
<v Speaker 2>I want to shout out to.

1:07:01.040 --> 1:07:08.520
<v Speaker 4>Nautical decorations. Yes, I was in a what I went

1:07:08.600 --> 1:07:11.680
<v Speaker 4>with a bunch of gay people to a restaurant that

1:07:11.840 --> 1:07:14.840
<v Speaker 4>was I was. I was staring at it the whole time,

1:07:14.960 --> 1:07:17.320
<v Speaker 4>was like, what is this restaurant? Why does it look

1:07:17.400 --> 1:07:20.040
<v Speaker 4>this way? Like I couldn't name it because I was

1:07:20.080 --> 1:07:22.520
<v Speaker 4>with gay people, so it didn't occur to me that

1:07:22.600 --> 1:07:25.720
<v Speaker 4>I could be in a nautical restaurant. Like they were

1:07:25.800 --> 1:07:29.640
<v Speaker 4>throwing off what the restaurant was. And then finally I

1:07:29.720 --> 1:07:32.680
<v Speaker 4>went to the to the bathroom by myself, and I

1:07:32.720 --> 1:07:35.800
<v Speaker 4>was in the bathroom and there was like rope trim

1:07:35.840 --> 1:07:38.720
<v Speaker 4>on like a like everything was navy blue and white,

1:07:38.880 --> 1:07:40.920
<v Speaker 4>you know, And I was like, oh, maybe's chic. I

1:07:40.960 --> 1:07:43.960
<v Speaker 4>don't know. And then and then I don't know, cheic

1:07:44.080 --> 1:07:46.400
<v Speaker 4>is oftentimes anyway, So I was like it was like,

1:07:47.240 --> 1:07:49.880
<v Speaker 4>because this maybe it's kind of frenchy, you know, like

1:07:49.960 --> 1:07:52.400
<v Speaker 4>somebody that could be so yeah, I was, but it

1:07:52.440 --> 1:07:54.160
<v Speaker 4>was in the bathroom and like it was like there's

1:07:54.520 --> 1:07:58.200
<v Speaker 4>rope trim picture of a sailboat, and all of a sudden,

1:07:58.200 --> 1:08:00.840
<v Speaker 4>I was like, I was like, probably in the basketball

1:08:00.840 --> 1:08:02.960
<v Speaker 4>I was like, it's a yacht club, you know, like alone.

1:08:03.040 --> 1:08:04.760
<v Speaker 4>But I was like I realized, like that's what this

1:08:04.840 --> 1:08:10.200
<v Speaker 4>theme was, and and and the whole lunch was just reaching.

1:08:10.680 --> 1:08:12.760
<v Speaker 4>It was changed. I was like this, this is the

1:08:12.800 --> 1:08:15.320
<v Speaker 4>feel of this lunch that I thought was like in

1:08:15.360 --> 1:08:19.880
<v Speaker 4>a in a like a cool New York restaurant. No,

1:08:19.960 --> 1:08:24.000
<v Speaker 4>I've just been dining at the yacht club and everything

1:08:24.080 --> 1:08:26.400
<v Speaker 4>was different. And it was because I became aware of

1:08:26.439 --> 1:08:27.919
<v Speaker 4>the nautical motif.

1:08:28.439 --> 1:08:30.280
<v Speaker 1>Wow, that is so powerful.

1:08:30.360 --> 1:08:31.520
<v Speaker 2>Do you think nautical?

1:08:31.840 --> 1:08:33.080
<v Speaker 1>I love nauticle.

1:08:32.720 --> 1:08:36.400
<v Speaker 2>Will come back, like yes, like in the way that

1:08:36.400 --> 1:08:40.639
<v Speaker 2>people fetishize cowboy work, where all that stuff like will

1:08:40.640 --> 1:08:42.200
<v Speaker 2>we get to a sailor moment?

1:08:42.360 --> 1:08:45.200
<v Speaker 1>Nautical is incoming. I also think we all have this

1:08:45.240 --> 1:08:48.360
<v Speaker 1>thing where our parents' bathrooms had like a seashore theme

1:08:48.920 --> 1:08:51.880
<v Speaker 1>and it's like hack. But now we're like almost at

1:08:51.880 --> 1:08:54.160
<v Speaker 1>a place where we're like, well, I'm my parents' age,

1:08:54.240 --> 1:08:57.800
<v Speaker 1>like maybe I want to find my way into the sea.

1:08:57.840 --> 1:09:00.000
<v Speaker 4>It was a time for some shells around the mirror.

1:09:00.320 --> 1:09:02.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think there's something where you're like, well, I'll

1:09:02.760 --> 1:09:05.280
<v Speaker 1>do it, but it'll be like a STEMI ironic and

1:09:05.280 --> 1:09:06.280
<v Speaker 1>I'll find a way to play with it.

1:09:06.760 --> 1:09:09.040
<v Speaker 4>The thing is it immediately becomes like that, that just

1:09:09.040 --> 1:09:13.200
<v Speaker 4>becomes like you're a thing like I like in Florida.

1:09:14.280 --> 1:09:16.400
<v Speaker 4>When I'm in Florida, i am like excited to see

1:09:16.439 --> 1:09:18.160
<v Speaker 4>like manate seemed.

1:09:18.120 --> 1:09:23.479
<v Speaker 2>Totally like not in a sort of alligator stuff.

1:09:23.520 --> 1:09:24.639
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. Yeah, I'm in Maine.

1:09:24.640 --> 1:09:28.000
<v Speaker 1>When I see those damn booies everywhere, I'm like perfect, You're.

1:09:27.840 --> 1:09:28.840
<v Speaker 4>Like, yeah, I'm in Maine.

1:09:29.000 --> 1:09:32.479
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, in fact, yeah, all I want is a

1:09:32.560 --> 1:09:33.720
<v Speaker 3>damn main bowie.

1:09:35.120 --> 1:09:36.479
<v Speaker 2>Toy. This has been an absolute delight.

1:09:36.600 --> 1:09:39.080
<v Speaker 4>It's been a pleasure for me so much for doing it.

1:09:39.080 --> 1:09:44.000
<v Speaker 2>When for doing it, please purchase the book stag Dance

1:09:44.160 --> 1:09:47.719
<v Speaker 2>on Bookshop dot Organ not Amazon. That's right, I said it. Wow,

1:09:48.520 --> 1:09:51.320
<v Speaker 2>makes political statement. Making a political statement or Amazon, you

1:09:51.360 --> 1:09:58.240
<v Speaker 2>know or whatever. I have no moral backbook. And if

1:09:58.240 --> 1:10:02.360
<v Speaker 2>you're in the UK, you know, look look where you're

1:10:02.360 --> 1:10:02.600
<v Speaker 2>going to be.

1:10:02.640 --> 1:10:05.960
<v Speaker 4>You're going to be it's gonna be like eight stops

1:10:05.960 --> 1:10:09.439
<v Speaker 4>in the UK and then including West Kirby. I don't

1:10:09.479 --> 1:10:12.280
<v Speaker 4>know that that is the probably the most obscure, but

1:10:12.320 --> 1:10:16.800
<v Speaker 4>apparently it's a nice place outside of Liverpool. Doing an

1:10:16.800 --> 1:10:20.200
<v Speaker 4>event in Brighton with Sean Fay who probably your listeners

1:10:20.400 --> 1:10:25.479
<v Speaker 4>know of Shaan Fay. And then I'm doing also Sydney

1:10:25.479 --> 1:10:30.800
<v Speaker 4>Literary Festival, Auckland Literary Festival and Melbourne let Literary Festival.

1:10:30.880 --> 1:10:32.080
<v Speaker 2>So I'm doing We actually do have a lot of

1:10:32.120 --> 1:10:37.040
<v Speaker 2>Australian listeners, that's true. Australians love old Gate comedy.

1:10:37.160 --> 1:10:37.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:10:37.439 --> 1:10:41.439
<v Speaker 4>Actually, well this is It's perfect that because I've been

1:10:41.479 --> 1:10:43.559
<v Speaker 4>sort of remiss and promoting those things.

1:10:43.760 --> 1:10:46.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, if you're an Australian listener, please please

1:10:46.920 --> 1:10:47.479
<v Speaker 2>look that up.

1:10:47.600 --> 1:10:48.280
<v Speaker 4>I'll be there.

1:10:49.040 --> 1:10:49.560
<v Speaker 2>Amazing.

1:10:49.800 --> 1:10:52.920
<v Speaker 1>Wow. Well bye podcast and.

1:10:53.080 --> 1:10:57.080
<v Speaker 2>Now want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra

1:10:57.120 --> 1:11:00.600
<v Speaker 2>episodes a month, discord access and more by heading to

1:11:00.680 --> 1:11:03.479
<v Speaker 2>patreon dot com. Slash Stradio Lab.

1:11:03.520 --> 1:11:06.120
<v Speaker 1>And for all our visual earners, free full length video

1:11:06.160 --> 1:11:07.599
<v Speaker 1>episodes are available on our.

1:11:07.520 --> 1:11:09.240
<v Speaker 2>YouTube now get back to work.

1:11:09.520 --> 1:11:11.880
<v Speaker 1>Stradia Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money

1:11:11.880 --> 1:11:14.439
<v Speaker 1>Players Network and iHeart Podcasts.

1:11:13.760 --> 1:11:16.679
<v Speaker 2>Created and hosted by George Severs and Sam Taggart.

1:11:16.720 --> 1:11:20.240
<v Speaker 1>Executive produced by Will Ferrell, Han Soni and Olivia Aguilar.

1:11:20.400 --> 1:11:23.840
<v Speaker 1>Co produced by Bei Wang, edited and engineered by Adam Avalos.

1:11:24.200 --> 1:11:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Artwork by Michael Failes and Matt Grugg.

1:11:26.439 --> 1:11:27.639
<v Speaker 1>Theme music by Ben Kling