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Speaker 1: Podcast starts. Now, what's up everyone around the globe. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to Stradio Lab from a windowless room in Times Square.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Welcome to TRL.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to TRL. I can hear and sink A bumping

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Speaker 1: their new hit downstairs.

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Speaker 2: So this is our final day of a full week

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Speaker 2: of Stradio Lab content.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and a NonStop I feel wistful. I know.

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Speaker 2: We've recorded four episodes, We've done a live show. It

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Speaker 2: was our first ever Lesbian Lab live show, all queer

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Speaker 2: woman lineup, and instead of straight topics, they brought lesbian topics. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and we learned about we can say what the three

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Speaker 2: topics were to say them? Okay, self cancelation. So this

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Speaker 2: is when you are a lesbian and you start a

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Speaker 2: small business sort of with the intention of being canceled

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Speaker 2: for having bad labor practices.

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Speaker 1: You get like one complaint and then decide to go on,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: To that's right. And it's also like starting a business

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Speaker 2: is actually more of a means to an end, the

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Speaker 2: end being getting a conversation going. Yeah, so you want

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Speaker 2: like a Reddit thread, you want people saying, like thread

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Speaker 2: the truth about you know, black Cat coffee. So that

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Speaker 2: was one. Hats was a second topic. So we learned

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Speaker 2: about flat rim hats and about hey Mama lesbians, and

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Speaker 2: about how different hats the further back in your head

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Speaker 2: of bean egoes, the less queer you are. That is

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Speaker 2: something that was I think positive. Yeah, that was positive

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Speaker 2: and proven and proven. And then the final topic that

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Speaker 2: this was the most interesting to me. You want to

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Speaker 2: say what it was?

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Speaker 1: It was porn. This was Ntalie Robert Lightman, and it

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Speaker 1: was porn as a lesbian export, as pizza is to Italians.

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Speaker 2: So she was yes, and so you.

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Speaker 1: Know, it's not necessarily always made by Italians, just like

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Speaker 1: lesbian wan was isn't always made by lesbians, and yet

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Speaker 1: it's how most people interact with lesbian culture.

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Speaker 2: This was fascinating to me because I am so you know,

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Speaker 2: liberal arts pilled that. I thought the topic was like feminist.

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Speaker 1: You're you're I have to say, your Ivy League education

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Speaker 1: was showing pejorative. I was. It was very I have

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Speaker 1: to say, it was like rich, it was sort of cam.

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Speaker 1: It was Kamala coded.

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Speaker 2: Okay, thank you for the class analysis. First of all,

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Speaker 2: I really liberal. I appreciate it, and I'm self canceling

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Speaker 2: in a lesbian way for my privilege because.

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Speaker 1: I heard porn as our greate sector. I said, I

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Speaker 1: know exactly what you're talking.

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Speaker 2: And in retrospect, I completely understand what she was saying.

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Speaker 2: She was saying the sort of male gays lesbian poor

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Speaker 2: and literally the poster of two women kissing them guys

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Speaker 2: have in their dorms. Yeah, that is like, I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's like an art cultural export of lesbianism that people

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Speaker 2: from all can unities can understand. What I heard was like,

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Speaker 2: you know, sort of queer non binary porn where then

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Speaker 2: all the performers also give a talk at Oberlin and

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Speaker 2: the and then the talk is like and then there's

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Speaker 2: like people asking questions at the talk and they're like

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Speaker 2: holding space.

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Speaker 1: It was really funny. You were like, oh, porn stars,

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Speaker 1: you know, like people that do talks at colleges university

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Speaker 1: And it's like, I really don't think that's what it is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I love that.

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Speaker 1: It's a beautiful it's a beautiful perspective that you bring.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what that also is a lesbian

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Speaker 2: cultural expert. It's just as like a less successful one

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Speaker 2: because it hasn't really reached the heights of the sort

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Speaker 2: of more male gayzyya.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was in the pizza metaphor you were forgetting

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Speaker 1: sort of about dominoes.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking more like Roberta's kind of a hot

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Speaker 2: honey and sage, whereas Natalie was saying like pep baroni.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to say and I.

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Speaker 2: Do want to actually shout out. So our friend Andrew

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Speaker 2: long Cheu was supposed to do the show ended up

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Speaker 2: not being able to make it. But her topic was

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Speaker 2: going to be hands as a lesbian topic, which I

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Speaker 2: think is so rich.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's very rich, and I would love to know

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Speaker 1: where she was coming from.

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Speaker 2: You but you like get well you.

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Speaker 1: Get that they have hands.

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Speaker 2: No, but it's like, you know, hands are much more

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Speaker 2: of an important part of lesbian sex. I think is

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Speaker 2: where it's coming from.

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Speaker 1: March. We're in Times Square.

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Speaker 2: And like as a it's like hands. I think this

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Speaker 2: is what she was going for, hands as a sex organ.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, we'll have to ask, because I don't want

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Speaker 1: to make assumptions because I don't know. Yeah, maybe that's

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Speaker 1: not what she was going for.

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Speaker 2: Okay, maybe I'm once again thinking too academically.

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Speaker 3: You know, maybe she was like the lesbians work with

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Speaker 3: their hands. Oh, that's also probably true.

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Speaker 1: You know, who knows it could be any I'm not

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Speaker 1: here to make assumptions. I'm here to listen.

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Speaker 2: We were being so respectful and open minded last night,

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Speaker 2: but we had one like cheap joke that we did

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Speaker 2: with the U haul, which, by the way, yeah, I'm.

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Speaker 1: Ready to be defensive. Here she goes, I'm ready to

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Speaker 1: be defensive. We put the U haul joke in the

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Speaker 1: slide show because we were like, it's time to talk

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Speaker 1: about this classic classic stereotypes.

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Speaker 2: But then all three of them are like Jesus Christ,

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Speaker 2: like why.

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Speaker 1: Would you put this in? And it was like, because

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Speaker 1: I'm curious, how are you thinking about classic stereotype? Because

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Speaker 1: gay car stereotype? It is like it's both embarrassing and

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Speaker 1: annoying and true. And so I'm like, how do you

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Speaker 1: guys feel about it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but say love.

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Speaker 1: I want to say that. As our string of records

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Speaker 1: in New York comes to a near close, that's right.

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Speaker 1: I feel a little bit. I have that thing where

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Speaker 1: I'm like, did I say everything? And even though we

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Speaker 1: slept two recordings today, I think back and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you know, when a little kid is like really excited

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Speaker 1: to do their dance for the parents, and then the

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Speaker 1: parents are like, okay, dance and they don't move at all.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's what I did. I feel like

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Speaker 1: I was like, I'm so excited to fucking show them

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Speaker 1: everything I've got, and then as soon as they're like,

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Speaker 1: okay recording, I'm like, so it do you guys like

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Speaker 1: blue or green better?

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Speaker 2: Don't you think though, that the concept of the big

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Speaker 2: moment is like a straight thing. And actually the more

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Speaker 2: queer sensibility is that it's just all of performance.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's your last your theory life is a cabaret.

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Speaker 2: Right, It's like life is a cabaret. It's not that

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Speaker 2: life is preparation for the big.

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Speaker 1: The stage doesn't end when samas not end exactly.

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Speaker 2: So it's like if it's like the director yell's cut,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't mean you're like, fuck, I didn't do what

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Speaker 2: I was going to do. It's like, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: do it now. I don't give a shit if the

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Speaker 2: cameras are going to catch it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's true.

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Speaker 2: And we have to bring in our guests because we

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Speaker 2: are absolutely edging her as always.

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Speaker 1: As always, this is truly exciting.

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Speaker 2: I'm really excited I'm excited.

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Speaker 1: I'm nervous. I feel that. You know, we have prestigious

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Speaker 1: guests sometimes, by the way, all the time, all the

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Speaker 1: time we are.

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Speaker 2: We love having prestigious guests, and they love doing the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Let's just want to start there. It's actually like.

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Speaker 1: And not to be sort of animal farm coded, but

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Speaker 1: some persigious guests, some more prestigious than others.

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Speaker 2: That's true. And I would say this one's like in

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Speaker 2: the top tier being prestigious.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so while all are prestigious, some are more

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Speaker 1: presigious than others, and this is our most prestigious.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god. Okay, Well, you know her from

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Speaker 2: her debut smash hit novel Detransition Baby, you know her

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Speaker 2: from her new book stag Dance, and you know her

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Speaker 2: as the guest of this episode of Straighter Lab. Please

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Speaker 2: welcome Tory Peters. Hi, Hi, what do you think of

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Speaker 2: her intro?

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Speaker 4: To be honest, I was very interested in your interpretations

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Speaker 4: of lesbian culture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see you. We were really like torturing

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Speaker 2: you because we were saying all these things that we

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Speaker 2: want your toe.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to jump in on. Yeah. Okay, thoughts, Well,

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Speaker 4: I think you're correct.

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Speaker 2: About Hans Okay, do you think.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it was a sex thing. I don't

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Speaker 4: think I don't think anyone's gonna be a funded by that.

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Speaker 4: You don't have to self cancel.

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Speaker 1: I have to say it was as I'm currently you know,

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Speaker 1: we unpack the podcast as we record the podcast, that's

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Speaker 1: part of it. As I sit in the middle seat,

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Speaker 1: I was finding myself not able to look at you

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Speaker 1: for approval and reactions, so I had no the whole time.

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Speaker 1: I was really flying blind.

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Speaker 2: I was being very supportive. Yeah, thumbs up, big smile.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really helpful to know, because I was like,

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Speaker 1: what if we're bombing and I can't I.

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Speaker 4: Was wondering why you weren't making eye contact. I was waiting,

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Speaker 4: ignoring me.

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Speaker 1: I was really focused in on George.

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Speaker 2: And then what do you think about generally self cancelate,

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Speaker 2: like the idea that the lesbian small businesses started from

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Speaker 2: THEE I mean.

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Speaker 4: As you were saying that, I was like, oh, actually

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Speaker 4: that is something that I think about, like this, I'm

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Speaker 4: wearing this jacket, for instance, and it's I don't know

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Speaker 4: if the owner of the company is a lesbian. I

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Speaker 4: don't want to assume, but there's something kind of lesbian

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Speaker 4: Kamala about the marketing of this it's an argent.

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Speaker 2: Jacket, what was the marketing of it?

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Speaker 4: And well, actually, Kamala, I think is one of their

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Speaker 4: I think like a pink power suit. And I was like,

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Speaker 4: I want I want exactly that to be like I

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Speaker 4: want to blend in on my book tour. So I

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Speaker 4: got like I was like what. I asked some some

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Speaker 4: fast people like what should I get and they're like, well,

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Speaker 4: this is the this is the thing in which nobody

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Speaker 4: will have an opinion about your suits, and then.

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Speaker 2: Being like, yeah, you don't want to be marked as

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Speaker 2: like anything.

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Speaker 4: I want like nobody to notice.

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Speaker 2: It is your t shirts. Does your T shirt say

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Speaker 2: tea for tea? It does, And you don't want to

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Speaker 2: be you don't want to be worked as other in anyway.

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Speaker 4: That was saying that was an air dressing air today.

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Speaker 4: Yeah no, But I felt like like I want everybody

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Speaker 4: to use my press photos. Basically I have good press

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Speaker 4: photos and I found if I wore interesting clothing my

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Speaker 4: last tour, it would be like these terrible candids that

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Speaker 4: for whatever reason, especially Italian photographers, love taking awful photos

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Speaker 4: of me.

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Speaker 1: There was a conspiracy photographers want.

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Speaker 4: I was just chased by like untalented Italian povers taking

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Speaker 4: terrible candidates and then doing SEO optimization on their terrible pictures.

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Speaker 4: And I think it was because they were like, oh,

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Speaker 4: this is the this is a different outfit than the

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Speaker 4: press outfit than the press photos, so we'll do this.

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Speaker 1: They felt like they were being unique.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, So now I want to wear something that's

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Speaker 4: like super bland, and if you were like, what's a

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Speaker 4: good photo, they go with my press photo that is

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Speaker 4: just available rather than you know, how bland in my

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Speaker 4: bland terrible candidate.

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Speaker 2: I did notice that in the photo on the jacket

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Speaker 2: of the book, you are wearing a white pantsuit.

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Speaker 4: I got rid of that one in the second printing to.

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Speaker 2: Wait. So you thought that, because that, to me is

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Speaker 2: very like Hillary Clinton meets like Annette Benning doing actors

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Speaker 2: on acting.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I was, that was like kind of what I

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Speaker 4: was going for. And there's like such a such a

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Speaker 4: history of like writers wearing white suits like Tom woll Well,

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Speaker 4: Steve Martin's not really those are those are my two

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Speaker 4: loads stocks in dressing. But I was like, yeah, I

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Speaker 4: think this is going to be my suit era. But

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Speaker 4: I've had to like have a couple of like restarts

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Speaker 4: on what I want the suit to do.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you, so then what is the new photo.

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Speaker 4: The new photo is going to be my bland suit.

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Speaker 4: I switched it out. I mean it's a good photo

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Speaker 4: of me. But you don't really even notice a suit.

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Speaker 2: That one is very suit you notice.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like your walk. You're You're doing a suit

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Speaker 4: thing in the photo, and I'm sort of secondary to

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Speaker 4: the suit.

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Speaker 1: This is You're bringing up something I find really interesting,

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Speaker 1: which is when you're launching sort of a new personal era,

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Speaker 1: you have to make at least three missteps. First. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I've been trying to go cowboy and I'm not

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Speaker 1: doing it today. But I was like I leaned in

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Speaker 1: way too hard. At first. I was like, I'm going

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Speaker 1: full cowboy, Like I'm wearing like wranglers, cowboy boots, tucking

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Speaker 1: the shirt and wearing a belt. And then it was

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Speaker 1: like it was like confusing, and then I pull back, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like you can wear one. Yeah, you can't do full cowboy.

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Speaker 1: It's silly.

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Speaker 4: I feel that way about about the white suit. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I'll do that very occasionally. I think it's like a

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Speaker 4: special thing, but I think it's like the first printing

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Speaker 4: is a white suit, and then we we pull back.

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Speaker 1: You got to see how far you can go? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: take one thing off.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but that was like the I think they were like,

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Speaker 4: we're doing a reprint, and I was like, I have

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Speaker 4: a new author.

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Speaker 1: Fun does the idea of a book tour? Is that

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Speaker 1: stressful or fun?

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Speaker 4: It's it's fun for the first three weeks, and then

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Speaker 4: you're it's not so much as stress as you're tired

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Speaker 4: of yourself. Sure, like you get sort of they don't

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Speaker 4: people want the greatest hits, you know, but like the

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Speaker 4: greatest hits for you are like three jokes and like

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Speaker 4: two ideas, and then you're like and then if you

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Speaker 4: deviate actually from it, it's usually the terrible nights is

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Speaker 4: when you when you think like, oh, I have a

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Speaker 4: I have a great new idea that I'm going to

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Speaker 4: try out this audience and it's like that was a

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Speaker 4: that was that was a bad Isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Also self perpetuating thing where like the people that are

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Speaker 2: interviewing you do their research, hear what you said in

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Speaker 2: other interviews, and then they're like, we heard when you

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Speaker 2: were a kid, you had like a favorite doll that

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Speaker 2: you played with, and so then you have to tell

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Speaker 2: the story again and again.

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Speaker 1: Yes, oh that's so interesting. I also realized talking about

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Speaker 1: the podcast, when we make the podcast, me asking is

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Speaker 1: it fun or boring to go on book tour, it

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Speaker 1: was so like little kid.

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Speaker 2: Reporter, you're doing like Nicola, like use for kids, Nicol.

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Speaker 1: So what's your favorite candy? Like it was so.

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Speaker 4: But that was this is like that you were just

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Speaker 4: saying in the intar, the big moment where you're like

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Speaker 4: do you like blue or gay? You know, it's like

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Speaker 4: you're just doing it. This is part of the process

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Speaker 4: and now you're doing it. And I relate to it

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Speaker 4: because when I was like eight years old, I got

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Speaker 4: a chance to interview Jane Jane Goodall, the famous primatologist,

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Speaker 4: and I panicked and I said, so you like monkey

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Speaker 4: And it was like exactly. This was like I had

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Speaker 4: thought about it, like this is gonna be my moment,

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Speaker 4: It's gonna be it, and that's just what came out,

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Speaker 4: you know. So yeah, book tours kind of kind sometimes boring.

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Speaker 1: I found that as an interviewer, you know, my child

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Speaker 1: like wonder can be really charming, but as an interviewer,

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Speaker 1: it can also be quite confusing. I think it's sort

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Speaker 1: of like what are we doing here? You know?

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Speaker 2: But I sort of think I think someone being interviewed ultimately,

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Speaker 2: not to project us on to you, but generally speaking,

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Speaker 2: someone being interviewed just wants to talk about what they

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Speaker 2: want to talk about, sure, and so giving them the

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Speaker 2: most like nothing question is like the best thing you

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Speaker 2: can do, because then they can just like monologue.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the advanced interviewing.

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Speaker 2: It's yeah, exactly, super So what we've learned so far

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Speaker 2: is don't do your research because you will ask the

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Speaker 2: same questions, and in fact, don't ask questions because that

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Speaker 2: is boxing the interviewing in.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I felt your first ones fun or no was?

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Speaker 4: I was like, well, this is my moment to just monologue.

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Speaker 1: The word fun is so funny to ask like an

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Speaker 1: author is writing fun.

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Speaker 2: Okay, here's a final, final stupid question for you.

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Speaker 1: I have a second final stupid question.

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Speaker 2: We're doing such a good job. Yeah, okay, so my

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Speaker 2: question for you is, like, I'm sure people are asking

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Speaker 2: a lot of annoying questions. So my question for you is,

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Speaker 2: what is like the question you wish someone would ask

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Speaker 2: you that no one ever would.

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Speaker 4: Then sorry, that question I get like every time.

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Speaker 1: George, I was gonna be a bit I was about

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Speaker 1: to say, I bet you get really.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and then it's really hard because I'm like, I'm like, well,

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Speaker 4: that question is actually a very common one. And then

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Speaker 4: also you have to like calm up each time my

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Speaker 4: new question that that because well last time that I

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Speaker 4: got asked this question, which is, you know, a few

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Speaker 4: days ago, I came up with like this as the

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Speaker 4: thing I wish that somebody would ask me. And then

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Speaker 4: like by the end, you're just like kind of making up,

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Speaker 4: like and I'm like, I wish people would ask me

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Speaker 4: about my shoes more like because everything else can ask

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Speaker 4: because of that specific question I have.

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Speaker 2: It's the theory. And maybe this is completely wrong. Do

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Speaker 2: you think it's because people are like uncomfortable with asking

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Speaker 2: about big quotes trans issues that they don't want to

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Speaker 2: say the wrong thing, and so then they want you

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Speaker 2: to tell them what to say.

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Speaker 4: Maybe that's it. There's two things that happens. And the

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Speaker 4: other thing that happens is that people are very proud

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Speaker 4: to have not asked about TRANSI shoes for an entire interview.

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Speaker 4: So but like the how proud they are that like

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Speaker 4: we've only talked about writing in this interview, Like I

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Speaker 4: don't even care that you're trans. You know, like you

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Speaker 4: can like feel that so heavily and like as as

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Speaker 4: they're like getting to the end, and it's like, and

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Speaker 4: you've also only talked about writing, and we're kind of

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Speaker 4: waiting for you to bring it up, but also we're

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Speaker 4: proud that we never brought it up. Is like that

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Speaker 4: that like slowly pressurizes that like stand off, you know

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Speaker 4: that you're that I'm in and so I oftentimes will

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Speaker 4: just break and be like I'm trans.

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Speaker 2: It's like checkofs, check offs, check offs, trans representation. It's

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Speaker 2: like is it going to be brought up?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Wow, okay, so what was your stupid question? And then

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Speaker 2: we'll go into smart Yeah this is a smart part.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll go into the smart section. I love the book,

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Speaker 1: you know, I was. I think I didn't expect how

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Speaker 1: horny it would be. To be honest, I was so

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Speaker 1: I thought it was so horny.

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Speaker 4: I would agree, but I felt, did you read my

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Speaker 4: first book? It was not?

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Speaker 1: I think was on here. I'd be like, no, but

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Speaker 1: you I did read?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: But no, that that's interesting because I feel like the

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Speaker 4: first book was hornier, like you know, like they she

379
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Speaker 4: she gets like our ribbon tied around her junk, and

380
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Speaker 4: maybe maybe you were just like that was sad.

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Speaker 1: I did not like it, like the bag dance in particular,

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Speaker 1: like the big guy like being like being like treat

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Speaker 1: me as the woman. I was like, yeah, yeah, that's

384
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Speaker 1: like so hot.

385
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think it was just the horniness

386
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Speaker 2: that like you related to more than more.

387
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Speaker 1: I was like literally, I was like, oh, this is

388
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Speaker 1: why I like to hook up with bye guys, because

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Speaker 1: they're like treating they're.

390
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Speaker 4: So and then it's so like like they're so titillated

391
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,400
Speaker 4: and excited by like look what I'm doing now. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So, and then my dumb question was, do you think

393
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Speaker 3: writing is the horniest medium?

394
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Speaker 2: Yeah, ranked.

395
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Speaker 1: Horning.

396
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Speaker 4: If it is horny, it's like a masturbatory horning. It's

397
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Speaker 4: like a very like you're like alone, kind of pleased

398
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Speaker 4: with yourself, you know, and what you're like, I did it, Oh,

399
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:50,479
Speaker 4: I liked it. You know, Like that's the the scene

400
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,920
Speaker 4: maybe that you're thinking about in the Lumberjack thing where

401
00:18:53,520 --> 00:19:00,639
Speaker 4: where the babions the o fish Lumberjack is hooking up

402
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,719
Speaker 4: with his boss and like a shanty. I wrote that

403
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:05,560
Speaker 4: one that day, and I was like, I don't know

404
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 4: if I was like maybe it was a little turned on,

405
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,480
Speaker 4: but I also just like like so smugly pleased with

406
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Speaker 4: myself that there was something very masturbatory about my emotions

407
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,800
Speaker 4: that day. That was like I left that day of

408
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,159
Speaker 4: writing as though I had just like taken odder on,

409
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Speaker 4: like gone into like a per porn wormhole for six hours.

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Speaker 1: Are you ever like, Okay, this is too horny? You

411
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 1: have to pull back, Like it's not it's it's too horny,

412
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:29,960
Speaker 1: it's too hot.

413
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:35,159
Speaker 4: No, like usually usually it if it is. If it

414
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Speaker 4: is that, then I am happy. And it's like maybe

415
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,399
Speaker 4: in like later edits, but like anything that's like too much,

416
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Speaker 4: I like to sit with the too much for a while. Yeah,

417
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:50,560
Speaker 4: and have somebody else tell me that made them uncomfortable. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I loved it.

419
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Speaker 1: I felt like, Yeah, a lot of the horniness I

420
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Speaker 1: was relating to and the sort of like being like

421
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Speaker 1: why am I doing this and then being like but

422
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Speaker 1: I can't stop.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that that is that's for me, is

424
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Speaker 4: like the kind of horness, like the confusing horniness I

425
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 4: think is like a go to uh both something I

426
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Speaker 4: go to, I guess emotionally confused horniness. I'm just very

427
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Speaker 4: comfortable there. And and I also think it's like like

428
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Speaker 4: I like characters who actually like don't totally understand what's

429
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 4: happening to them, you know. Yeah, And I feel like

430
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Speaker 4: hornedness is is a it is something that like happens

431
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Speaker 4: to you sometimes rather than something you do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a curse. Then it's terminal.

433
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Speaker 1: There are times when I've done like I'm walking to

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Speaker 1: do something and I'm like, turn around, turn around, don't

435
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Speaker 1: do this. Yeah, And it's like, but I have to.

436
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Speaker 1: I won't rest until I go do this. I'm too

437
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Speaker 1: horn I have to put my life in danger to

438
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Speaker 1: go do this.

439
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

440
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,919
Speaker 2: No, it really feels like you're in train spotting, but

441
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 2: it's instead of heroin, it's horniness.

442
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:55,640
Speaker 1: It's not right.

443
00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:01,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's also I think similarly how your characters deal

444
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 2: with their horniness. I also think the way they deal

445
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 2: with their own cruelty is kind of been the same way.

446
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,639
Speaker 2: Like it they almost can't help it and can't understand

447
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 2: where it's coming from, and they're half conscious of it,

448
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 2: and they're almost like just conscious enough to feel guilty

449
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 2: and self loathing about it.

450
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we've entered the smart smart question.

451
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 2: It's like, are you yeah? Was that something like was

452
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 2: the almost like the relationship between cruelty and horniness something

453
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:33,680
Speaker 2: that was in your mind?

454
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 4: Well, I think cruelty is very intimate, right, Like I

455
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 4: think that like when you don't know somebody and you

456
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 4: do something like awful to them, that's just like sort

457
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 4: of brutality. But that like when you know somebody and

458
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 4: you like know their like vulnerabilities and there and and

459
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 4: like the like the soft parts of them, and then

460
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,439
Speaker 4: you like kind of can't help yourself maybe because like

461
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 4: you know them so well and you're just so like

462
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,399
Speaker 4: frustrated or irritated or no, that you just like go

463
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 4: for those vulnerable areas. I mean, that's very intimate, right

464
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 4: to know somebody so so in all their soft parts.

465
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 4: So I think that, like, and that's exactly kind of

466
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 4: what you want to know if you're horning too. So

467
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,120
Speaker 4: there is like the cruelty in the horningsh.

468
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 2: My cruelty is finding the emotional g spot.

469
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,400
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.

470
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 4: I'm going to borrow that for when I go on tour.

471
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 4: I'm going to the UK. I think that I'll still

472
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 4: love it.

473
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah you were telling me that, I

474
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 2: you know what, You're gonna have a lovely time in London,

475
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 2: go to the West End, see some plays. What a time.

476
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,120
Speaker 1: The other thing, this is more more of a reflection

477
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 1: of my stupidity rather than a question. Okay, you know confidence,

478
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 1: Well you know that meme.

479
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 4: It's a good start.

480
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that meme. That's like me as someone

481
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 1: who has only seen Trolls two World Tour watching you know,

482
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: The Godfather. Wow, this is just like it were totally.

483
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 1: I feel like the only like books that I read

484
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,439
Speaker 1: like that are about like like hard like fiction books

485
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 1: about gender are like Ursula kay La Gwinn. So the

486
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 1: whole time I was like, like, especially like the first one,

487
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,920
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, this is just like.

488
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 4: I will take it. I mean as opposed to Trulls too.

489
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 4: If you're like, this is just like Ursula Gwinn, Absolutely.

490
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 2: Yeah I was.

491
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 1: I liked I felt like it was fun that you

492
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: were going so big and like sci fi with it.

493
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 4: Like yeah, so like I was. I I wanted to

494
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 4: do the promise for people haven't read it is that's

495
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 4: each piece is like in a different genre and and

496
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 4: that one. The first one is like a speculative fiction

497
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,959
Speaker 4: dystopian one about like a gender apocalypse. But I think

498
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 4: it was also like that was the first one that

499
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 4: I wrote, and it was because, uh, I think I

500
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 4: was like it was like twenty sixteen and like Last

501
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 4: of Us the video game come out, it was like

502
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 4: the Road and also ours thing, and I was like, what

503
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 4: genre is everybody into in twenty sixteen, and it was

504
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 4: kind of yeah, like grimy, grimy, pust apocalyptic stuff, whereas

505
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 4: like now I think I would I would never do

506
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 4: like a pandemic.

507
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah right, Oh so that was written free.

508
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 2: I'm sure you've talked about this, but yeah, it was

509
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 2: written pre pandemic.

510
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 4: Its pre pandemic. Yeah, which, like I think is people

511
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 4: are always like, why don't you expand that one into

512
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 4: a full novel. I don't think you want me to

513
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 4: do that, Like, I think you've kind of gone through it.

514
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 2: Yourself totally totally. Although we were saying, how now it's

515
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: been long enough. Actually Harry was saying this, right, someone

516
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 2: was saying, like it's now been long enough that people

517
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: are craving narratives about twenty twenty, not just the pandemic,

518
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: but like even just like where the culture was in

519
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, and how we were also unmoored from reality

520
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 2: because we were, you know, just like undergoing this like

521
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 2: insane experience all together but also alone. Yeah, So I'm

522
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 2: almost like it's like to pick something like that back

523
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 2: up now or even in like another three years.

524
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

525
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 4: I mean I felt actually like the other day when

526
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 4: when Trump announced all of his teriffs, like and I

527
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 4: felt the world kind of stopped for like a day.

528
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 4: I had like a real like what does this feel like?

529
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 4: What does this feel like? And then I was like, oh,

530
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 4: it feels like March twenty twenty, where everyone's like is

531
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 4: the economy crashing? Do I have a job?

532
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 2: Like?

533
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 4: Should I stock like fill up my bathtub or whatever

534
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 4: weird shit we were doing in twenty twenty. I had

535
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 4: like a real like I called it like a snow day,

536
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 4: like I don't remember what it was last week was

537
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 4: like it was like a pandemic snow day, where I

538
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 4: was like, is the world over? And I kind of

539
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 4: wish that, like, yeah, that that had there had been

540
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 4: like more culture about that weird feeling, because I feel like,

541
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 4: apparently we're gonna just keep on having.

542
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: Well that's the thing. I think microdosing March twenty twenty.

543
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: It's like every few days you just go through like

544
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 2: a less intense version of it, and it's it's like, yeah,

545
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 2: shorter and more painful rather than this like long drawn

546
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 2: out thing. Okay, I'm like so eager to get on

547
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 2: the topic. We should do our fst SEC. What's our

548
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: first second? Okay, Tori Sam, do you want to Our.

549
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: First segment is called straight Shooters, and in this segment,

550
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: we're going to ask you a series of rapidfier questions

551
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 1: to gauge your familiarity with and complicity and straight culture.

552
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: It's basically this thing or this other thing. And the

553
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: only rule is you can't ask any followup questions or

554
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: we'll scream at you.

555
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 4: Can I ask a pre question?

556
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: I think that might be a follow up question. And

557
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: while you I wanted to say yes to, I have

558
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 1: to be no.

559
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: I was and real yeah, I also attempted to say

560
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 2: yes because I was like, well, she's an author.

561
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

562
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 4: I was like, well, if I'm putting as much gravitas

563
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 4: as I can to get away with to break the

564
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 4: rules of your podcast.

565
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 2: Should I sorry? Okay, We'll start simple being the goat

566
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 2: or sinking a boat.

567
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: Sinking a boat, okay, a dream come true? Or a

568
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 1: steaming pot of stew.

569
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 4: A steaming pot of stew does.

570
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: Sne within reach? Or a headline that says impeach, I.

571
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 4: Like design with's in reach?

572
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: A task that's the sophician or a rash that's cyphilician.

573
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 4: Oh, probably a taskian, Yeah.

574
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 2: Thank you, okay, being queer and in stem or drinking

575
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 2: beer but being fem Oh.

576
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 4: Oh wow, I'm gonna say drinking beer and being.

577
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: Fum Okay, okay, Lou tove Lou or mama rou What

578
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: was the middle one?

579
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 4: I don't know what that blows?

580
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,719
Speaker 1: Actual pronouncing of the name you answer to follow up?

581
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: Got here? A constitutional crisis?

582
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 2: This is this is twenty twenty all over again.

583
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: People are hitting the streets.

584
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 2: Well, I'll now, Lou, let's see which one do I

585
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: want to do? The taming of the shrew or defaming Lucy.

586
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: Lou face card never declines, Oh my god, that's Ray Fines.

587
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 4: I like Ray Fines. I'm excited to see Ray Fines.

588
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 4: Oh my god, it's Refines.

589
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 1: I'm actually excited to see Ray Fines as well. Whenever

590
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: I see him, I'm like wow, that's very fine.

591
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

592
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: And also there's you know what ray Fines is to me.

593
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: You know how people when you know how to say

594
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: luev right, you get to have like a step up

595
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: over like sixty percent.

596
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, like that's you and rape.

597
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: Literally like I see that name and I go, I

598
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: know how to say that.

599
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 2: Okay, so because it's not spelled like it's spelled ralph,

600
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 2: but it's rafe.

601
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's spelled Ralph Fiennes. And you say, you say rain.

602
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're in the no.

603
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Jory, we rank each gets performance on a

604
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 2: scale of zero to one thousand doves and or zero

605
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: to one thousand. We have decided based on based on

606
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 2: two Gaga songs to songs. I have to say. Here's

607
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 2: what I'm struggling with. I'm like, do we reward the

608
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: boldness of asking a followup question because she beat us

609
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,479
Speaker 2: at her own game? Or do we punish because because

610
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: she did the one thing that.

611
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I believe a wise man once said

612
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: that cruelty is the g spot.

613
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 2: So oh my god, you did that to us. You

614
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 2: like found you found our one weakness and used it

615
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:28,239
Speaker 2: against us.

616
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 4: I made it pleasurable.

617
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, literally, I think we should punish.

618
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, we should punish. Okay, So I would say,

619
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 2: without the follow up question, it would have been nine

620
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty doves.

621
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fact.

622
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: But with the deduction of six hundreds, six hundreds, it's

623
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 2: gonna go ahead and be three hundred and thirty five duffs.

624
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,719
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, Tori. That's not a passing.

625
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 4: But what is that? And what is that in blades

626
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 4: of grass?

627
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 2: Okay, So there's inflation when it comes to places of grass,

628
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 2: the grass I get it's more closer to like six fifty.

629
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: It's more closer to six fifty.

630
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good change. You're like in other countries.

631
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 4: I'll do all right.

632
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 2: When you're in the UK, you can pay. Yeah, you're

633
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 2: actually somehow making Yeah, certainly have more than a I'm.

634
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 4: So glad I did this podcast before I went over.

635
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: Oh my god, horse, should we get into the straight

636
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: I would love to hear so behind the scenes. George

637
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: knows the topic. I do not, and I'm so excited

638
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: to hear what street topic is and what's straight about it.

639
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 4: So it's a working theory. But my straight topic is

640
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 4: prolonged divorce and my theory is that you don't know

641
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 4: if you're in a gay marriage or a straight marriage

642
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 4: until you get divorced, and it is how long how

643
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 4: prolonged your divorces that determines how gay or straight you're

644
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 4: you're your.

645
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 2: Marriages, and the more.

646
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 4: The straighter is, the more prolonged your marriage that you

647
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 4: can And it doesn't really matter your gender or how

648
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 4: you identify. It's like it's like when you don't know

649
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 4: and then you get divorced and if it goes on

650
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 4: like two years, you were in a straight march of

651
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 4: all time.

652
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: Because the queer thing is being like I don't I

653
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: take my possessions, I don't care, Like.

654
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 4: No, I don't think it's even like that, Like I

655
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 4: think like but I think it's like I think it's

656
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 4: like you just can't let go. And I think it's

657
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 4: just like you can't let go because like of you're

658
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 4: just like have ended up very headot in your thing

659
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 4: where like one person knows how to cook, one person

660
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 4: knows where like the drain on the sink is, and

661
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 4: you can't leave each other because you're like, how am

662
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 4: I going to drain the sink without this person? How

663
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 4: am I going to turn on the stove or do

664
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 4: all these things and so you just you just you

665
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 4: dry it out forever. And because I'm I'm forty three

666
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,959
Speaker 4: now and I'm I'm like, I had one round of

667
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 4: well I to divorce myself, but like a round of

668
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 4: divorces with a like age thirty and now. And I

669
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 4: think it was mostly like queer ish people who are

670
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 4: getting divorced at thirty, where they were like usually discovering

671
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,479
Speaker 4: they were queer or something and they're like, oh, I

672
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 4: gotta go. And now it's like straight people in my

673
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 4: life in their forties and they are just trying it

674
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 4: out four years and I'm just like and everything that

675
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 4: they do is so staright, just like you can just

676
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 4: stop this, just stop it.

677
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 2: Don't you think it has to do with like the

678
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: more you buy into the institution, for lack of a

679
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: better word, the more violent it is to break it apart,

680
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 2: because it's like, yes, the more you believe in marriage,

681
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 2: the more difficult it is to step away from it,

682
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 2: like you have literally it's all been leading to that.

683
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And I think that's actually what drives me

684
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 4: crazy about this is like every like just get away

685
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 4: from each other, like just you don't need this, like

686
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 4: you'll be happier and like, and they just can't see

687
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 4: they can't see that like it needs to end. You're

688
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 4: torturing each other, and there's something like I'm just like,

689
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 4: just like this what is happening is like straightness is

690
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 4: torturing you all rather than you know, even each other

691
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 4: are torturing each other. And I've noticed it actually, like again,

692
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 4: like it doesn't even have to be straight people, Like

693
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 4: there's some some gay marriage couples that I know where

694
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 4: I'm just like, the way you're doing this is like

695
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 4: you've you've believed in it too much. You've like entered

696
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 4: into straightness and it's and I didn't know it the

697
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 4: whole time you were together, but now that you're divorcing,

698
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 4: I see that you were in a straight marriage all totally.

699
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 2: I actually, I think more broadly gay you know, since

700
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 2: gay people have been able to get married, there are

701
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 2: there is a spectrum of on the one side, gay

702
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 2: people almost like wanting to emulate straight people and on

703
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: the other side being like excited to do something new

704
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: with this new right, you know what I mean. And

705
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 2: so it's like there's a spectrum of straight to gay

706
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: marriage within gay marriage.

707
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 4: I agree with you. Wow, I agree with that, And

708
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 4: I mean I even think like you were you were

709
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 4: saying that like on a previous show that you had

710
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 4: you had classified what.

711
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 2: Was it, divorces Lesbian marriage is straight, and like staying

712
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: together without getting divorced is gay male, right because they're like.

713
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: But like they don't hook up anymore.

714
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like staying in an happy marriage basically is gay

715
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 2: male because they're all open, so they don't feel the

716
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: need to escape because they just like can't escape every

717
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 2: night basically, yeah, but just like come home and resent

718
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: their husband. And of course the classic thing, my favorite

719
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 2: thing when it's a gay couple and they're like in

720
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 2: a fight, another person enters the room and one of

721
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 2: the husbands goes, oh, look there's your boyfriend.

722
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 4: But see, to me, that is like that even Okay,

723
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 4: So let's if you just take that, like gay couple

724
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 4: not having sex together forever, that is either like the

725
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 4: most kind of like oh you've like solved marriage, like

726
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 4: you are like the most enlightened thing, or it's actually

727
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 4: like you are the you have like reverted to such

728
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 4: straightness that yeah, or even like the Catholic church in

729
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 4: like the fifteen hundreds, like divorce does not exist for you.

730
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 4: You just have to live with each other, and like

731
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 4: and like dream one day of like how could we

732
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 4: possibly separate? It's unthinkable. God does not allow it, you know,

733
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 4: And it's like that's the straightest, the straightest you could

734
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 4: possibly be, is two gay men living together.

735
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: It is interesting. It's always like obviously there's no right answer,

736
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,439
Speaker 1: but I'm sort of like is that better? Like there's

737
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: so many guys Ryan, like could you just break up?

738
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: Like let's call it, Like it would be so much

739
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: better if you just broke up.

740
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 2: It is interesting how that is almost the default for

741
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: long term GI guy relationships. Yeah, where then everyone under

742
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 2: their breath is like yeah, they're always like this.

743
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 4: It's it is and like the even the bickering that

744
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 4: you that you just said that there as your boyfriend

745
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 4: or whatever. It's like that you just stage that with

746
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 4: like slightly different actors and you're like, oh, this is

747
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 4: this is the most conservative like yeah, like British period

748
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 4: that we're watching, you know.

749
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm finding this really interesting because Okay,

750
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 2: so basically is finality gay or straight? I think it's

751
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 2: like a larger question and out of go ahead.

752
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: Well, I think finality is more straight, to be honest,

753
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: and I think that's why they make it last longer,

754
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: because they know when it's over it's actually over, whereas

755
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: when gay people are breaking up, they are like, we're divorced,

756
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: it's over, but we still get lunch every three months.

757
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 2: Rare, right, So finality is straight and that there's a

758
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 2: gravity to it that straight people are afraid of. They're like,

759
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: I will do anything but finality. Yes. Yeah, So in

760
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 2: their fight against finality, they are like hurting themselves.

761
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: Yeah when they could, they could. Sort of life is

762
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: a cabaret thing, you know. Gay people know when the

763
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: cameras are off the stage, you're still on stage, and

764
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: so you know, when the marriage is over, you're still

765
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: gonna have a relationship with a person. It's just a

766
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: different relationship where the straight people are like when the

767
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: cameras are off, I'm off stage.

768
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 2: God.

769
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 4: But I also think that the willingness to be final

770
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 4: would be gay, like a willingness to like to lean

771
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 4: in and be like, I'm breaking ties and I'm changing everything.

772
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: To make a stag I am.

773
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly, like everything's new about me now, Like

774
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 4: that that is that that well, it's.

775
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,919
Speaker 2: Like I'm wearing the They're literally debuting like a I'm

776
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 2: divorced era, and then they're like, actually, I'm pulling back.

777
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 1: I'm not fully out.

778
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: Well, there's also something I think like gay people, because

779
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: they kind of have this reverence for like a diva,

780
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 2: a straight woman who like a divorce a. I almost

781
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 2: think like to be divorced is so fabulous, whereas like

782
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 2: for a sort of like a straight woman who married

783
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 2: her high school sweetheart, it's such a sign of failure.

784
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: It is a real sign of failure. I mean, to

785
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 1: be divorced in like the Sexlent City universe is fabulous.

786
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: Well that is, of course, but I do think in

787
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 1: like normal world it can be quite difficult.

788
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 2: What do you think of the recent And you cannot

789
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 2: answer this if you don't want to comment on your peers,

790
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 2: But there's been sort of a recent rise in like

791
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,720
Speaker 2: divorce literature. Yeah, mostly from women. I would say, yeah,

792
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 2: in my experience, Like, what do you think that is about?

793
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 4: Well, it was like, I mean that was like the detransition.

794
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 4: Maybe my first book was dedicated to divorces women. Oh yes, yeah,

795
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 4: So it was like I felt like I was very

796
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 4: much a part of this like divorce thing, and like

797
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 4: you know, kind of what I was saying is like

798
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 4: divorce is a transition in the same way that like

799
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 4: you know, because you you live your life a certain

800
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 4: way and then you and then you make a decision

801
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 4: and then you have to like go forward and not

802
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 4: get bitter. And also you can't just like go get

803
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 4: married again in the same way with the same illusions,

804
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 4: otherwise you're gonna end divorced you And so I was like, oh,

805
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 4: like we can all understand each other, and I but

806
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 4: I feel that this is actually and so I was like, oh,

807
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 4: we can, we can build bridges, we can understand each other,

808
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 4: and like actually, like you can like divorce straight system

809
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,479
Speaker 4: and you can sort of be trans in a little

810
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 4: bit of your way. But this is actually sort of

811
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 4: the twenty twenties culture that that like I feel like

812
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 4: maybe Hari was talking about that you were talking about,

813
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 4: Like I feel like that actually now to me feels

814
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 4: like a little bit naive, like this this sort of

815
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 4: like oh, we can all just can kind of like

816
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 4: understand and take responsibility for our for our actions and

817
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 4: like not lie to each other. Like I think that

818
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 4: that's like not true for like having watched people that

819
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 4: now get divorced. I'm like, oh no, you're just going

820
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 4: to continue to lie to each other. And so some degree,

821
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 4: like for me, like watching like trans shit over like

822
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 4: the last four years is like, oh no, this is

823
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 4: like like you can understand trans people, and actually it's

824
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 4: not gonna it's not going to make anything any better.

825
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 4: So I'm like a little bit like down on divorce literature,

826
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 4: right yeah, though I think there's like lots of good

827
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 4: books that do it. I'm sort of like it's like

828
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 4: I actually don't want to reread the whole like Ferranti series,

829
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 4: which like in twenty twenties you've been like do you

830
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 4: want to reread Fernto? I'd be like any day, all

831
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 4: the time, I'll do it. I'm like I actually want

832
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 4: like more things burned down now than I want it.

833
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: Than I want Like yeah, Like.

834
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 2: So you're sort of you've turned on divorce as an

835
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 2: optimistic Yeah yeah, kind of.

836
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, like and I don't know what replaces it, but

837
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 4: but sort of like oh, you can just kind of

838
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 4: like go through this ritual take stock of like what

839
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 4: you want and who you are, and that's going to

840
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 4: be like enough to like move forward. I like don't

841
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 4: at this moment, like I sort of don't believe it,

842
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 4: Like I feel like, oh, you you something more than

843
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 4: that needs to happen like that, and and I and

844
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 4: in that metaphor of like divorce and transition, like I

845
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 4: also think that like it goes across for a transition,

846
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 4: where like it was a there was a while was like,

847
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 4: oh you just transition and then you and then you

848
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 4: can live your life as you want. It's like that's

849
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 4: not enough anymore.

850
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: Well that was the plot of Amelia Perez.

851
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 2: Ye, that's actually not the plot of Amelia Prez if

852
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 2: you remember the ending.

853
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: But well, I think, but I think what she's saying

854
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: is the plot where it's like you think you can.

855
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 2: You yeah, the critique is the plot of Amelia Press

856
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.

857
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 4: And then you I haven't seen that. I've only watched

858
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 4: like clips of it, but I understand that somebody falls

859
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 4: down the mountain.

860
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: Go ahead and fall down the mountain and explode.

861
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

862
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: She explodes the best way for any movie to end.

863
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: And I actually think more movies should end that way.

864
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 2: It's so complicated. I've spent so much time thinking about Amelia.

865
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 4: Perez from I started watching it on a plane, and

866
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 4: I was just like, this isn't the place, yeah, for

867
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 4: this movie and for me, and like and I got

868
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,479
Speaker 4: when it started this tour, I got so many again

869
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 4: not to be like so many questions are the same,

870
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 4: but I got a lot of them, like what you

871
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 4: think of Amelia Prez. And I was like halfway through

872
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 4: watching on a plane, kind of not understanding what was

873
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 4: going on, and I was like, and then I'm going

874
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,760
Speaker 4: to go in like a pine about this movie, totally

875
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 4: not understanding the edited version of it. So I just

876
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 4: I turned it off and I haven't returned to it.

877
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 2: I have to say, it's interesting that there's this idea

878
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 2: of trans backlash against Amelia Press, because every trans person

879
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 2: I know has opted out of seeing it, and they've

880
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 2: been very much like you know, I'm not at a

881
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 2: place where I can watch that right now, Like it's

882
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 2: I actually think the backlash is almost like manufactured by

883
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 2: sis people who are guilty about watching it or something.

884
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 2: And then like imagine an imaginary like mob of trans

885
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 2: people that are mad at Amelia Press.

886
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's something to that. Yeah, there the

887
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 1: backlash is like I'm like, okay, like it does ye

888
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 1: are doing here.

889
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 2: It almost reminds me of my favorite topic, which is

890
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,879
Speaker 2: the women that got sent to space and how we're

891
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 2: at a place where like something like that, which in

892
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen would be like the big

893
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 2: news of the day. No one cares enough either to

894
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: be empowered by it or to be angry about it. Yeah,

895
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 2: it's just a numbness. It's just like a numbness. Like

896
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 2: don't can't you imagine like a time in like twenty

897
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 2: fifteen where like every website would be have like a

898
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 2: screed about like the pitfalls of girl bossery. Yeah, but

899
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 2: it's like no one gives a shit anymore.

900
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,879
Speaker 4: No, I mean, it's just like but it's it's sort

901
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 4: of like also like we've seen this grift so many times.

902
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 4: Yeah too, It's like we've seen it with like a

903
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 4: deep water submarine. We've seen it.

904
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: Like it's one kind of also ended in Amelia Press

905
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: with Yeah, that's true, I remember that.

906
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 4: That's it. If it I guess if that if they

907
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 4: had fallen down a mountain and explodage, Yes, the space

908
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 4: hip full of Katy Perry and gay okay and stuff,

909
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 4: people would have talked about.

910
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: Nory but that's what we need committed to sending a message.

911
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: They should have.

912
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 2: Committed to be creating a Melia pressed that would exploded.

913
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 2: But also it's almost like Ameili Prize is like the

914
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 2: transrepresentation version of women in Space for Girl Boss, where

915
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 2: it's like we've now gone through the conversation and not

916
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 2: just transrepresentation any kind of like representation politics. We've now

917
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 2: gone through the debate of like is it good is

918
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 2: a bad? Is it good as a bad? So many

919
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 2: times that something like a Melei Prize comes along and

920
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 2: I'm almost just like unable to even form an opinion

921
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 2: about it. Yeah, it's like remixing existing arguments that have

922
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 2: been had so many times.

923
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, including even like the trans backlash, right, Yeah, like

924
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 4: the imagined mob of like of like somehow trans people

925
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 4: who all have the same opinion. Yeah, it's like you

926
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 4: have to you have not met trans people if you

927
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 4: think there's a mob of them that are somehow in

928
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 4: lockstep or like can I even like not just be

929
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 4: like cats like batting at each other if you put

930
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 4: them together, you know, like that is you that's imagined.

931
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 4: It's totally imagined situation that they can chant the same

932
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 4: thing at the same.

933
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 2: Time honestly goes back to the lesbian own business that's

934
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 2: doomed to fail. It's like they're not agreeing in those meetings.

935
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: I mean also in the Mask or the last story

936
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 1: of the book, it was that was very that where

937
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 1: it was like this is everyone's like, it's a meet up,

938
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: but everyone's on such a different page.

939
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean sometimes it's like the when I talk

940
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 4: about that, it's like it's like we're all kind of

941
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 4: we're all kind of like standing in the same public square,

942
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 4: but like we we all came from like all four

943
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 4: cardinal directions, And if you'd be like, how do you

944
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 4: get here, it'd be like I came over that hill

945
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 4: and I saw a coward's like, I have no idea

946
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 4: what journey you took. I have no idea the landmarks

947
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 4: on your way. Like everything you're saying is alien and

948
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 4: strange to me. And the only thing that we have

949
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 4: is that we're kind of like standing in like like

950
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 4: a general vicinity. We're not on the same table. It's

951
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 4: like I see you, like, oh you had You're eating

952
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 4: ice cream and I'm having a coffee. You know.

953
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is interesting. I do feel like there's a

954
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 1: push to try to like make it seem like almost

955
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: like trans people are the like like gay guys, where

956
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: it's like the culture of gay guy is and it's

957
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: like it does it's not one to one.

958
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, But but I also think that like

959
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 4: that ends up being like the useful thing is it,

960
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 4: Like let's let's let's pretend that all trans people like

961
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 4: are out here in a mob telling telling us what

962
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 4: we can or can't say, and it's like, yeah, thats

963
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:24,240
Speaker 4: just it's.

964
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 2: Not And they were all appointed by Biden.

965
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 4: But yeah, exact.

966
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 2: It was Biden appointed the trans mob.

967
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 1: The head of which was the Suitcase Steeler my favorite.

968
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, that was a good Biden appointing.

969
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: That was that was like Biden kind of ate with

970
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 1: that one.

971
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:48,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was that that. I was just laughing picturing

972
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 4: that person and picturing also like the protests like that

973
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 4: that the way that that person protested, like that I

974
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 4: did steal suitcase.

975
00:46:55,320 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: But like wearing the outfits all over so genius. I Also,

976
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 1: now there's a thing I feel very conspiratorial around internet

977
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 1: backlash in general, because it feels like like websites are

978
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: basically like we need to find four tweets and then

979
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,879
Speaker 1: we can say there's a backlash, and it's like it's

980
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: not about thought.

981
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 2: Also, but also I have become so conspiratory. I mean

982
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: I've become so conspiratorial about literally everything being paid bots,

983
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 2: which is I remember in when people were like when

984
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 2: I'm whatever, like the kind of stereotypical center lib, you know,

985
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 2: fifty year old post Trump was like the Russians Russian bots,

986
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 2: like it's Cambergenolytica, and I was like, oh god, you

987
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 2: guys need to get it together. Now I have become that.

988
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,800
Speaker 2: But for like a thread that's like, you know, Azelia

989
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 2: bakes his worst moment, I'm like someone paid for that.

990
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 2: I the Blake Lively, like the Blake Lively thing. The

991
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 2: only conclusion I drew from that is like, Okay, so

992
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 2: it's all fake. There's no one actually mad that Blake

993
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 2: Lively or or there's no one that actually in their

994
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 2: mind is like, wow, she actually was really rude to

995
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,760
Speaker 2: that interviewer. It's literally just like someone behind the scenes

996
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 2: that bleep agency.

997
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 4: But that is a very appealing worldview in Summay. That

998
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 4: actually makes you sound very chill like, even though it

999
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 4: makes you sound like you're like wearing. It's like also

1000
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 4: like you're like the chilliest to netwhere you're like, it's

1001
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 4: just it's just the bots to chill out. Everybody loves.

1002
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: It's actually, yeah, it's kind of beautiful. You're even like,

1003
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 1: no one's mad.

1004
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then I'm also like the most well, I'm like,

1005
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 2: no one's mad. But then I'm also like we're living

1006
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 2: in like the last of Us post apocalyptic world because

1007
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 2: no one knows what's real or what's fake.

1008
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, but soon it'll all be over.

1009
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 2: Oh that's true, kind of cheerful.

1010
00:48:54,640 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: Who cares? They love you based podcast. I find it

1011
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 1: to be a really powerful mantra.

1012
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 4: You know.

1013
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 1: I find it there's a silliness to it. There's a

1014
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 1: sort of detachment to it. Yeah, And I think both

1015
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: of those are really important right now, Tori, I want.

1016
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 2: To give you a challenge, which is, you know, for

1017
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: each of these stories, you experimented with a different genre.

1018
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 2: I would love to see you experiment with the genre

1019
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 2: of middle brow humor, essays of the type that you

1020
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 2: find at airports. And I want you to write a

1021
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 2: book that's called like, you know, someone's on my seat, not.

1022
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 3: Me, writing a book for you to read on the

1023
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 3: airplane and other concerns.

1024
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 4: I would. I mean, I feel like that's actually like

1025
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 4: the dream, yeah is it like you know, you get

1026
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 4: like you get like a I feel like actually a

1027
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,399
Speaker 4: lot of like really great writers get to a point

1028
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 4: in their life where they're like offered a cruise, you know,

1029
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 4: and then cruises. Oh yeah, like the famous like David

1030
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 4: Foster Wallace, like a supposedly fun that you've never yeah

1031
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 4: where never done whatever it.

1032
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:03,479
Speaker 2: Is, I'll never do it again.

1033
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 4: I'll never do it again. Like it's like it was

1034
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 4: like he basically just like I get to go on

1035
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 4: like a carnival cruise or whatever, and I'll like try

1036
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 4: and elevate it. And then he was like riffing on

1037
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 4: like Frank Conroy going on a carnival crew on some

1038
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 4: other cruise where you get any st just did it?

1039
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 4: Ger Steiner? I mean Gary Steiner loves to go on

1040
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 4: like a paid travel thing like.

1041
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 2: I know, but I'm also like I stand like.

1042
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,399
Speaker 4: I know absolutely, like I would love to hear him

1043
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 4: like in dubibing like I'm eating chicken hearts and like

1044
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 4: whatever it is. It's like and you got paid ten

1045
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 4: thousand dollars to do this and like you don't care,

1046
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 4: like the way I mean, I love the way that

1047
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 4: Gary Steiner doesn't care that it was like I just

1048
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 4: wrote an entire novel about roll Axis. You know that's

1049
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 4: like that's just I have a nice watch. I like

1050
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,359
Speaker 4: my watch, and now that's my novel. Like I kind

1051
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 4: of appreciate his like his like just just what I've

1052
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 4: gotten recently for free is the thing that interests me.

1053
00:50:59,080 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 4: And I understand.

1054
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 3: You know when you said writers go on cruise, I

1055
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 3: was thinking about like how comedians going.

1056
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 4: I was.

1057
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 1: Like, they're performing.

1058
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 4: I mean it's sort of similar though, like Lauren Oiler

1059
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 4: went on the Goop.

1060
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 2: Cruise this podcast.

1061
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, Lauren Oiler did it and did like and did

1062
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 4: the same you know, very very funny, but did the

1063
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 4: same thing. Where it's like, now that I'm on a

1064
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 4: cruise as a writer, I'm going to reference every other

1065
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 4: writer who is on a cruise as a sort of

1066
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 4: like way of like this is a literary tradition and

1067
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 4: also I got a free cruise, Like.

1068
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 2: I think it's great. I know that people do roll

1069
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 2: their eyes at that genre, but I'm like it's fun

1070
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 2: to it's fun for something to be like a thing

1071
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 2: you revisit. I'm trying to think of like what an

1072
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 2: equivalent thing is for It's like even honestly Chelsea Pretty

1073
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 2: and her special when she's like every comedian, every male

1074
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 2: comedian fucks the stool, like doesn't act where they fuck

1075
00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,280
Speaker 2: the stool, and so Chelsea.

1076
00:51:59,000 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 4: How do you make it yours?

1077
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean yours? And so Chelsea's thing is like

1078
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 2: I want to sort of riff on that by doing

1079
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 2: For me, it's I'm passively taking it from the stool.

1080
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 2: She's just like is like right by the stool, and

1081
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 2: she's just like sitting there and then she's like and

1082
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 2: then things got crazy and she turns around in her butt.

1083
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 2: She's just sitting there. But it's like, yeah, that's actually

1084
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 2: what culture is.

1085
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 1: No, it's it's how you interpret it and reference it. Yeah.

1086
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,720
Speaker 4: I mean, if someone offered me a cruise at this point,

1087
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 4: it's like got such a tradition that I wouldn't just

1088
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 4: be like I would of course be like I'm a

1089
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 4: little bit selling out and I'm taking the cruise, but

1090
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 4: I would also be like like sort of like I'm

1091
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 4: in that camp, like I'm more an oiler you engouraged. Yeah,

1092
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 4: kir Stein guard camp like that's quite uh, I'm quite

1093
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,959
Speaker 4: honored to be to be offered the chance to sell

1094
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 4: out for a cruise, and I mean I would Yeah.

1095
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: No, you don't, well, cruise directors, Yeah, this is mags

1096
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: mm hmm.

1097
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 2: Although you know, cruises are actually really scary because did

1098
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 2: you read that New York mag piece about cruises about

1099
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 2: the people that got left behind and then could not

1100
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 2: make their way back. So there are these people on

1101
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 2: a cruise and they like they were dropped off at

1102
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 2: one of the stops and then we're like running to

1103
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 2: get back on the cruisehip, but the cruise ship left

1104
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 2: without them, and then it describes this they weren't Basically

1105
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 2: cruise ships have no liability whatsoever, like no laws applied

1106
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,399
Speaker 2: to them. People like a shocking number of people die

1107
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 2: on cruise every year and no one is held accountable.

1108
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 2: These people were trying to get back on the cruise

1109
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 2: and the cruise was just like we don't care, like

1110
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 2: we're just gonna like do our thing. They had medical

1111
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 2: issues that they didn't have their medicine for because the

1112
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 2: medicine was still on the cruise. It's like this insane

1113
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 2: thing that you're sort of like basically just putting your

1114
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 2: life in their hand and the cruise ship company's hands.

1115
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 4: It's like the law of the sea applies, is like

1116
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 4: maritime law.

1117
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:01,240
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a combination of that and also some version

1118
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 2: of basically cruise company lobbying such that they're very loosely regulated.

1119
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 4: And I guess I sort of hear about that this

1120
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 4: sort of like weird ghost ships of like cruise cruise

1121
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 4: ships for everybody has neuro virus at the same.

1122
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 2: Time, and like, and the most scary thing is that

1123
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 2: cruise people like people that because the thing with cruise

1124
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 2: people is that most people on a cruise our serial

1125
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 2: cruise ship go right. It's like a cult. And so

1126
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 2: when you raise these points to them, it's like you're

1127
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 2: talking with scientologists. Like they don't accept, Like you'll be

1128
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 2: like they're because the bridget read the writer who wrote

1129
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,760
Speaker 2: the story like interviewed a lot of cruise ship people,

1130
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 2: and they like would not accept that cruise ship companies

1131
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 2: make mistakes, like they were just and they would be

1132
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 2: mad at the people who got left and they were like, well,

1133
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 2: they told us, like you have to be back by

1134
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 2: ten fifty five, even while someone's dying.

1135
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,479
Speaker 4: That is very religious sort of.

1136
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, well this is maybe a point to we need

1137
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: to sort of lower the bar for the type of

1138
00:54:57,960 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 1: like the writer that can go on a cruise ship.

1139
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 1: You shouldn't. It shouldn't be like sort of you've made

1140
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: a really successful career and now you get to do

1141
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 1: cruise ship. They need to get beginning journalists out there.

1142
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 1: It should be an unpaid on paid internership, because we

1143
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: need more journalists on cruise ships to uncover what is

1144
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 1: going on.

1145
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's true enough sort of.

1146
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: Language about what it means to be on a cruise

1147
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 1: and more about like the crimes that are being committed.

1148
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 2: Actually, I have a question for your toy. We were

1149
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 2: talking about this at some point, what with the contemporary

1150
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,879
Speaker 2: version of specifically David Foster Wallis in that era going

1151
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 2: on a cruise should be like, yes, the writer going

1152
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 2: on a cruise is a tradition and everyone does it,

1153
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 2: but at this point it's so referenced, it's so referencing

1154
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 2: past cruise ships that it's barely about like it's not

1155
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 2: really about like what it says about society that we

1156
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 2: go on cruise ships. Like the contemporary thing would be

1157
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 2: something like what is so like Lynchean and postmodern about

1158
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 2: society that you that someone would comment on like is

1159
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 2: it going to like an influencer conference, is it going

1160
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 2: to like what is so depraved about our society that

1161
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 2: now you would want like a high brow writer to

1162
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 2: perform analysisan.

1163
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 4: Okay, well I have two thoughts on that.

1164
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1165
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 4: One is that I feel like this, like one of

1166
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 4: the things that's happened is that this genre has been

1167
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 4: like sort of exhausted, like we're going to find the

1168
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 4: lynching thing so like even and it ends up becoming

1169
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 4: like depraved in the practice of it. Yes, Like I

1170
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 4: feel like the number of writers who are like I'm

1171
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 4: going to like a right I'm going to go hang

1172
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 4: out with like right wing influencers and try and like

1173
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 4: make them interesting to us, Like I'm the it makes

1174
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 4: me like sick.

1175
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 2: It's like a Morley bankrupt project.

1176
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:34,919
Speaker 4: It's like this this this idea of like, oh, we're

1177
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 4: just going to find out what the what the you know,

1178
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 4: we're gonna find out what the fascist think, you know,

1179
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 4: at their little and their little fashion like oh they

1180
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 4: wear this hat or they wear this shoe. Ooh interesting.

1181
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 4: It's like that's we're no longer like at the State

1182
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 4: Fair with David Foster Wallis where like we're laundering something

1183
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 4: when we do this. So I'm like, I'm kind of

1184
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 4: like I'm kind of like in the typical magazine version

1185
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 4: of this, I'm like this this thing is it doesn't

1186
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,399
Speaker 4: work anyway are now? And so like, because I too

1187
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,800
Speaker 4: am always like what what is a great magazine assignment

1188
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 4: that I could like picture myself where I get to

1189
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 4: go do something kind of enjoyable and eat nice food

1190
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 4: and you know, I absolutely want that, you know, and

1191
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:15,760
Speaker 4: and that I but then I could also be saying

1192
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 4: something while I'm doing it, and like most of the

1193
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 4: things I could be saying are like kind of awful

1194
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 4: at this point. But I will say that I think

1195
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 4: that probably the frontiers on this are like I would

1196
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 4: like to see a serious writer take on Discord Gooning.

1197
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 3: No, this is so good, Yeah, that would like I

1198
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 3: feel like it's not not a thing in life, but

1199
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 3: like that there's like whole like cultures that like I

1200
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 3: need somebody that are like that are like not like, oh,

1201
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 3: it's like a great place you go to, but like

1202
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 3: the like I didn't know about Discord Gooning until like

1203
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 3: last year, and then I was like fascinated with discord gooning, and.

1204
00:57:58,320 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 2: Can you actually explain what it is?

1205
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 4: So like you have like whatever your fetish is, right,

1206
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 4: it's like there's discords, yeah, right where your thing is.

1207
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 4: You sign under a discord and there's like there's like

1208
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 4: thousands of other people on these discords and that like

1209
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 4: then you like spend all day gooning, you know, like

1210
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 4: but but like it's it's like so it's like it's

1211
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 4: like I knew about this basic thing from like chat

1212
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 4: when I was like okay, they're like, oh, like you

1213
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 4: know asl like age sex, and then you're kind of

1214
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 4: like I'm in it with you. I'm like doing a thing.

1215
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 4: But it's like so overwhelmingly like like sensory attack now

1216
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 4: where it's like you can be in voice channels, you

1217
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 4: can be like you're gooning with other people in voice channels,

1218
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 4: you're sending them every two seconds like some porn that's

1219
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 4: like their triggers. Like you're like breaking each other's brains

1220
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 4: in the discord goon you know, as you're just masturbating

1221
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 4: for like you know, on adderall for hours and hours

1222
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 4: and hours. So you have like like in marathon endurance

1223
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 4: for it and like and then and to me, I'm

1224
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 4: just like this explains so much, Like like I kind

1225
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 4: of like when I see people, I'm like and I'm like,

1226
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 4: why are they doing this thing? It's like, well, they're

1227
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 4: probably coming off of like twenty two hours of gooning,

1228
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 4: like I also would be making.

1229
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 1: I never know where you never know what people are

1230
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 1: going through. I'm so glad you brought this up. I

1231
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: learned about discord like jerk off groups recently, yeah, and

1232
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: I have it. Luckily I'm technically untalented, so I haven't

1233
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 1: found my way in. Yeah, but I was like, well,

1234
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 1: I've got to check that out.

1235
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 4: There is a level of tech to do it that

1236
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 4: is like that is like like I wanted to. I

1237
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 4: wanted to see it, And I'm like, you have to

1238
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 4: really be invested. But I feel like once you're invested,

1239
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 4: like it seems that the payoffs are hot. It's like

1240
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 4: it's like once you're in, you're like I'm set, Like

1241
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 4: I don't need the real world anymore.

1242
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 1: It's great that people are getting weirder in a way

1243
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 1: that I am finding myself curious about. Like I am

1244
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 1: like I follow a guy on porn Twitter that like

1245
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 1: like puts his full id up and it's just like

1246
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 1: just to humiliate me. And I'm like wow, he puts

1247
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 1: his phone over. He's like just text me and tell

1248
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 1: me I'm pitiful, and I'm like this is weird.

1249
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I just don't think that like real life

1250
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 4: can can achieve that level of like like dopamine sensory humiliation.

1251
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 4: Like if it's like I I was weird, you know,

1252
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 4: like on the street and like some people are just

1253
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 4: like and like you know, a few people snickered and

1254
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 4: you're like I was mildly humiliated. But when you have

1255
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 4: like twenty thousand people on the internet damn doing that,

1256
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 4: it's like you're the sensory overload that is possible for

1257
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:48,439
Speaker 4: this kind of thing. Now is is so fascinating, Like.

1258
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: Well and then that needs me over like becomes the

1259
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 1: point like I've seen so many things of like porn

1260
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: is my life, Like I will, yeah, like quit your

1261
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 1: family and watch porn and like it's like crazy where

1262
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 1: it's like the like religion of porn becomes like the

1263
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 1: new thing.

1264
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 4: And I need a respectable writer who's not part of

1265
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 4: this to like get I want like Barbara King Solver

1266
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:14,200
Speaker 4: just like doing you know this is the culture of gooning.

1267
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 4: I've uncovered it.

1268
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 1: That's so genius. You know, we started this horny and

1269
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,439
Speaker 1: we're ending in horn I really appreciate that.

1270
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 4: I want them to like uncover the big goon.

1271
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 1: Big the big goon has not been exposed.

1272
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know what's actually sick is like so

1273
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 2: many people are hypocrites and are so sex positive in

1274
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 2: their writing and then their adages and whatever, and they

1275
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 2: would absolutely cower the night of the Big Goon. They

1276
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 2: would not have the bravery to look at the.

1277
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:49,120
Speaker 4: It's like strap on their pith.

1278
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 3: Damn.

1279
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 1: Barbara King Solver, if you're listening, this is yours.

1280
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 2: This is your moment.

1281
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 4: It's great that you got the pulitzer, but can you

1282
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 4: can you face the big good? Yeah?

1283
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 2: Wow?

1284
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:04,360
Speaker 1: Wow, Well that was amazing.

1285
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 2: I think we should we do our final any final

1286
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 2: thoughts on on prolonged divorce as a straight.

1287
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 4: No, I just just just rip the band off, like

1288
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 4: I think. I'll just say, I think it should be

1289
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 4: a four month process.

1290
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

1291
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 4: I think if we're going to do an arbitrary thing,

1292
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 4: I think from proposing your divorce to filing it, four

1293
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 4: months is reasonable. That's real and you can still be

1294
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 4: it's a gay marriage if you're if you've been doing

1295
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 4: it in four months, anything after that, you're in a

1296
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 4: straight marriage.

1297
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow, yeah you heard of your greatest marriage, Brandelina. Yeah,

1298
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 2: they're still going. Oh I think they're still divorcing. Am

1299
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 2: I wrong?

1300
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah?

1301
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's been years. I had no idea,

1302
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 2: and they are actually, if you think about it, sort

1303
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 2: of the archetypal straight American couple. Yeah, of this generation.

1304
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 4: I think like you don't have to like have everything

1305
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 4: settled after four months, Like if you're like them and

1306
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 4: you own like a rose wine thing, it's.

1307
01:02:58,960 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 2: Like who gets the rose?

1308
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 4: It's that is like that's difficult to me.

1309
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 1: That's different paperwork, and that's the lawyers.

1310
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, but you know you have to like settle that

1311
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 4: we are gonna split up the Rose ey yes, yeah, yeah.

1312
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 2: They finalized December. We're getting word that they finalized December

1313
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four.

1314
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 3: We have once again spread misinformation and December twenty twenty four,

1315
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 3: huh huh still pretty recent.

1316
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:26,439
Speaker 2: You know, the rose is not bad. Oh I tried

1317
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 2: it recently. Anyway, Let's do our final segment.

1318
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:35,959
Speaker 1: Okay, Tori. Our final segment is called shout outs. In

1319
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: this segment, we pay homage to the grand straight tradition

1320
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 1: of the radio shout out, shouting out to anything that

1321
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: we are enjoying, people, places, things, ideas. Imagine it twousand

1322
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 1: and one. You're at TRL shouting out to your squad

1323
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 1: back home, and we have to think.

1324
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 2: We have to think about it on the spot, which

1325
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 2: is why I have my thinking base.

1326
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 1: On here's okay, I have one, I have one?

1327
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 5: Okay, what's up freaks, loss and perverts around the globe.

1328
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:02,560
Speaker 5: I want to give a shout out to listening to

1329
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 5: different music in different locations and having it hit different.

1330
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 1: I you know, this is sort of a basic concept,

1331
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 1: but sometimes, you know, as I've been living in Los Angeles,

1332
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: some music I'm like, seeing it makes sense more, and

1333
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 1: some music I've been like, I know this is good,

1334
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 1: and I know that I like this, but it's not

1335
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 1: hitting as hard as I want. Today I was walking

1336
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 1: through New York City and I was taking the subway,

1337
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 1: and I said, it's time to put on Okay, Lou

1338
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 1: and guess what. It was hitting harder than it's hit

1339
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 1: ever before in my whole life. I already liked it,

1340
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 1: but it's time I was like, damn the subways, like

1341
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 1: I'm underwater, like I was in heaven. I felt cool.

1342
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 1: I felt like, you know, this used to be my life,

1343
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 1: and you know, I one day hope to be cool again.

1344
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 1: But that is neither here nor there. But it is

1345
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,479
Speaker 1: on the subway listening to Okay Lou, New York City,

1346
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 1: I Love you xoxo Sam whoo wait.

1347
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 2: My version of this so my dad's favorite musical artist

1348
01:04:57,080 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 2: when I was growing up with Shade. Now, Shade famously

1349
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 2: is like sexy music, and I think I will finally

1350
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 2: be liberated when I can recontextualize Shade as something sexy

1351
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 2: rather than something that reminds me of my father.

1352
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I find myself like and I can't

1353
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 1: like I I it's you'll get there. Yeah, you just

1354
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 1: need new context.

1355
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 2: I need, I need, I need smoking, I need, honestly discordgooning,

1356
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 2: but for shaphones.

1357
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've I'm finding myself listening to him constantly in

1358
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 1: LA because I'm like, well this is makes sense, that.

1359
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:32,800
Speaker 4: Does make sense and now that yeah, it's like st sunny.

1360
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. And today I was like should I put on

1361
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:37,479
Speaker 1: a hem? And I was like, why not? It's cool?

1362
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense.

1363
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 2: Okay, what's up, fashionist does? I want to give a

1364
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 2: shout out to the brand Marrow, the shoe brand Marrow.

1365
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 2: It is so difficult right now to shop for shoes

1366
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 2: because of the sort of constant TikTok semi ironic reappropriation

1367
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 2: of every floating signifier that constantly exists. It is impossible

1368
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 2: to know whether something you are wearing signifies that you

1369
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 2: are basic, that you are young, that you are old,

1370
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 2: that you're all trying to be young, that you are

1371
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 2: trying to be hype beastie. And there is something about

1372
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 2: Maryl brand shoes that almost transcends that. I think it

1373
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 2: has been appropriated and reappropriated so many times that you

1374
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:18,440
Speaker 2: can they can basically be whatever you want them to be,

1375
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:20,760
Speaker 2: and you sort of can get away with wearing them

1376
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 2: and they just like accommodate you the rest of your style.

1377
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 2: And so I am this is the Meryl pledge. I

1378
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 2: am buying a pair of Marraals in the next calendar month,

1379
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:30,920
Speaker 2: and that's gonna be my new look. It's gonna be

1380
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 2: my Kamala blazer is I'm gonna wear Marrels and I

1381
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:35,920
Speaker 2: just want to think them for everything. They've contributed to

1382
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 2: both straight, queer, gay all cultures because they have something

1383
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 2: really wearing the Lilia was wearing them last night and

1384
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 2: so shout out to Meryl. I don't know if they

1385
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 2: are an ethical company, but I will do my research

1386
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 2: after this. Yeah, that's my beautiful Tori. Whenever you're ready,

1387
01:06:56,880 --> 01:06:59,560
Speaker 2: I want to shout out to.

1388
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:08,520
Speaker 4: Nautical decorations. Yes, I was in a what I went

1389
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 4: with a bunch of gay people to a restaurant that

1390
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 4: was I was. I was staring at it the whole time,

1391
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,320
Speaker 4: was like, what is this restaurant? Why does it look

1392
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:20,040
Speaker 4: this way? Like I couldn't name it because I was

1393
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 4: with gay people, so it didn't occur to me that

1394
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 4: I could be in a nautical restaurant. Like they were

1395
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 4: throwing off what the restaurant was. And then finally I

1396
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 4: went to the to the bathroom by myself, and I

1397
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 4: was in the bathroom and there was like rope trim

1398
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 4: on like a like everything was navy blue and white,

1399
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 4: you know, And I was like, oh, maybe's chic. I

1400
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 4: don't know. And then and then I don't know, cheic

1401
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 4: is oftentimes anyway, So I was like it was like,

1402
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 4: because this maybe it's kind of frenchy, you know, like

1403
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 4: somebody that could be so yeah, I was, but it

1404
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 4: was in the bathroom and like it was like there's

1405
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:58,200
Speaker 4: rope trim picture of a sailboat, and all of a sudden,

1406
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 4: I was like, I was like, probably in the basketball

1407
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 4: I was like, it's a yacht club, you know, like alone.

1408
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 4: But I was like I realized, like that's what this

1409
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 4: theme was, and and and the whole lunch was just reaching.

1410
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 4: It was changed. I was like this, this is the

1411
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 4: feel of this lunch that I thought was like in

1412
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:19,880
Speaker 4: a in a like a cool New York restaurant. No,

1413
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 4: I've just been dining at the yacht club and everything

1414
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 4: was different. And it was because I became aware of

1415
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:27,919
Speaker 4: the nautical motif.

1416
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 1: Wow, that is so powerful.

1417
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:31,520
Speaker 2: Do you think nautical?

1418
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 1: I love nauticle.

1419
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 2: Will come back, like yes, like in the way that

1420
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:40,639
Speaker 2: people fetishize cowboy work, where all that stuff like will

1421
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 2: we get to a sailor moment?

1422
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 1: Nautical is incoming. I also think we all have this

1423
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 1: thing where our parents' bathrooms had like a seashore theme

1424
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 1: and it's like hack. But now we're like almost at

1425
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 1: a place where we're like, well, I'm my parents' age,

1426
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:57,800
Speaker 1: like maybe I want to find my way into the sea.

1427
01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:00,000
Speaker 4: It was a time for some shells around the mirror.

1428
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:02,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's something where you're like, well, I'll

1429
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,280
Speaker 1: do it, but it'll be like a STEMI ironic and

1430
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 1: I'll find a way to play with it.

1431
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:09,040
Speaker 4: The thing is it immediately becomes like that, that just

1432
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 4: becomes like you're a thing like I like in Florida.

1433
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 4: When I'm in Florida, i am like excited to see

1434
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:18,160
Speaker 4: like manate seemed.

1435
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:23,479
Speaker 2: Totally like not in a sort of alligator stuff.

1436
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:24,639
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I'm in Maine.

1437
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 1: When I see those damn booies everywhere, I'm like perfect, You're.

1438
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:28,840
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, I'm in Maine.

1439
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:32,479
Speaker 3: I'm like, in fact, yeah, all I want is a

1440
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:33,720
Speaker 3: damn main bowie.

1441
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:36,479
Speaker 2: Toy. This has been an absolute delight.

1442
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 4: It's been a pleasure for me so much for doing it.

1443
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 2: When for doing it, please purchase the book stag Dance

1444
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:47,719
Speaker 2: on Bookshop dot Organ not Amazon. That's right, I said it. Wow,

1445
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 2: makes political statement. Making a political statement or Amazon, you

1446
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 2: know or whatever. I have no moral backbook. And if

1447
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 2: you're in the UK, you know, look look where you're

1448
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:02,600
Speaker 2: going to be.

1449
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 4: You're going to be it's gonna be like eight stops

1450
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 4: in the UK and then including West Kirby. I don't

1451
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 4: know that that is the probably the most obscure, but

1452
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 4: apparently it's a nice place outside of Liverpool. Doing an

1453
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 4: event in Brighton with Sean Fay who probably your listeners

1454
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:25,479
Speaker 4: know of Shaan Fay. And then I'm doing also Sydney

1455
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 4: Literary Festival, Auckland Literary Festival and Melbourne let Literary Festival.

1456
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 2: So I'm doing We actually do have a lot of

1457
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 2: Australian listeners, that's true. Australians love old Gate comedy.

1458
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1459
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 4: Actually, well this is It's perfect that because I've been

1460
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:43,559
Speaker 4: sort of remiss and promoting those things.

1461
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, if you're an Australian listener, please please

1462
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 2: look that up.

1463
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 4: I'll be there.

1464
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:49,560
Speaker 2: Amazing.

1465
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:52,920
Speaker 1: Wow. Well bye podcast and.

1466
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 2: Now want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra

1467
01:10:57,120 --> 01:11:00,600
Speaker 2: episodes a month, discord access and more by heading to

1468
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 2: patreon dot com. Slash Stradio Lab.

1469
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 1: And for all our visual earners, free full length video

1470
01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:07,599
Speaker 1: episodes are available on our.

1471
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 2: YouTube now get back to work.

1472
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 1: Stradia Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money

1473
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 1: Players Network and iHeart Podcasts.

1474
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:16,679
Speaker 2: Created and hosted by George Severs and Sam Taggart.

1475
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:20,240
Speaker 1: Executive produced by Will Ferrell, Han Soni and Olivia Aguilar.

1476
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 1: Co produced by Bei Wang, edited and engineered by Adam Avalos.

1477
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:26,320
Speaker 2: Artwork by Michael Failes and Matt Grugg.

1478
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:27,639
Speaker 1: Theme music by Ben Kling