1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. This is a 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: classic episode. We hope it finds you enjoying the holidays, 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 1: however you choose to celebrate them. Uh, this one, I 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: really liked this one, NOL. Yeah. If a good friend 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: of mine from elementary school, Demetrius Wren is a very 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: talented filmmaker, once wrote to me and her form in 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: years and he had found the show organically and tune 8 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: into this episode, and he gave us some very kind 9 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: words on this episode, because I mean, I think it 10 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: is a very interesting cultural study the idea of Chinese 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: food and how the history of Chinese food is also 12 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: kind of the history of Chinese immigration in the United 13 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: States and some very poor treatment to Chinese immigrants and 14 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: also some kind of demonization of Chinese food. I didn't 15 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: realize the whole story behind MSG, how there was this 16 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: kind of war on MSG that was really just a 17 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: war on um Chinese immigrants. Yeah, and it's funny. Also, 18 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: I don't remember if I mentioned this. I'm ben by 19 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: the way, I don't remember if I mentioned this in 20 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: in our original recording. But I have a lot of 21 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: Chinese friends and the folks who are Chinese nationals get 22 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: this love Chinese American food because it's so very different 23 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: from Chinese food in China. And it's also a big 24 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: tradition here in the US for any of our non 25 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: US listeners. It's a big tradition for people who don't 26 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: celebrate Christmas to actually go to a local Chinese restaurant. 27 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: And this has almost become a stereotype in some cases, 28 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: but it's based in truth, largely because in many parts 29 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: of the US on Christmas, the only restaurants open were 30 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: the Chinese restaurants, which is great. The food is banging, oh, 31 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 1: it absolutely is, but it's also, as we know, not 32 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,559 Speaker 1: the same as food that you would get in China. 33 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: It's americanized. It was made to kind of suit American 34 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: palaces in certain dishes like general so it's chicken and 35 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: I think even sesame chicken, and some of the most 36 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: popular ones and americanized kind of Chinese restaurants were created 37 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: in the United States. Um. So it's a very interesting 38 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: cultural fusion story, a very interesting story of our problematic 39 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: history with people from other countries, and it ultimately kind 40 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: of has a happy ending. Think, yeah, are you kidding? 41 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: There are more than forty one thousand Chinese restaurants around 42 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: the US alone. I think you could say they won 43 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: the argument ultimately. Okay, you're absolutely right. No more spoilers. 44 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 1: Let's get right into the episode. Happy Thanksgiving folks. Ridiculous 45 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: History is a production of I Heart Radio. Hello, and 46 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: welcome to the show. I'm Ben, I'm no, and we 47 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: are as Olds joined with our super producer Alex Williams, 48 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 1: and we introduced Alex to the Ridiculous History crowd. Yet ah, yes, everyone, Alex, Alex. Everyone, 49 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: he doesn't really talk. He only talks in our ears 50 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: and bead and you know, sometimes we get him to 51 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: turn up the high hats and we assure you he's 52 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: very much real. It's very much super. Now he's there, 53 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: we're looking at him, and he is a handsome toothsome 54 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: young man. Um. Have you seen the New Blade Runner movie? 55 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,839 Speaker 1: I've been I have not seen the New Blade Runner yet. 56 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: I saw it last night at like ten o'clock and 57 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: I do really badly with falling asleep at late movies. 58 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: And it's quite long, but I will tell you that 59 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: it moved along at such a It's a very languid movie, 60 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: but it actually has a pretty incredible clip of action 61 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: and activity that kind of kept me awake and alert, 62 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: and I enjoyed every second of it. And it's a 63 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: it's somewhat of a slow bird, right. I'm having a 64 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: hard time expression because it is a slow burn and 65 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: it's a very languid kind of drone e movie. It's 66 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: got this amazing score that very much matches what Van 67 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: Gallis did on the original one, but this time they've 68 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: got Hans Zimmer doing it. He's doing his very best 69 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: Van Gellis impersonation and it's great. But it's like, you know, 70 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: it's the kind of movie that used to maybe would 71 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: have put me to sleep watching it at ten o'clock 72 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: and it is three hours long. But I'm just I 73 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: think that says a lot. I don't want to give 74 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: anything away. Everyone should see it. It's really cool. This 75 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: has like literally nothing to do with what we're talking 76 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: about today. It kind of does, does it, yes, because 77 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: because we're we're currently talking about the seventeen the new 78 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: Blade Runner film. In the previous Blade Runner film, one 79 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: of my favorite things about it watching watching it as 80 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: a wee tyke was h Deckert right, the protagonists, Uh 81 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: he is? It's it seems like there are scenes where 82 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: he is walking by restaurants and stuff. Man, I totally 83 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: just pulled this out of nowhere, but it absolutely does 84 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 1: connect because it was the future depicted in the Blade 85 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: Runner movies and in this new one too. There's a 86 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: definite Chinese his influences. See where I'm going to, see 87 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: where You're going, and there are you know, restaurants on 88 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: every corner. A lot of the folks that make the 89 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: manufacturer the bootleg um replicant animals and different things like that, 90 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: they're they're from China, and everyone kind of also speaks Chinese. Yeah, 91 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 1: it seems like it's a second language. It's very important. 92 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: There's this implied subtext that, whether economically or culturally, the 93 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 1: the Chinese culture is making these in roads right on 94 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 1: places where it formally would never have existed. And in 95 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: the universe of at least the original Blade Runner, this 96 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: is a given. This is after the fact, after the 97 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: story begins. This is already happened. And what's strange about it, 98 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: you know, there is always the argument that science fiction 99 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: is like prescient, right, it's predictive. In this case, what's 100 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: fascinating is that in the past we have to wonder 101 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: what the directors are drawing from because in the real 102 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: life past and genuine American history, there was a time 103 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: where people were very threatened by this notion. Yeah, it's 104 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: kind of another really awful, embarrassing thing that we as 105 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: a country did. It's it's pretty awful. Um, this is 106 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 1: kind of a bit of a bummer of a topic, 107 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: but it's really fascinating and for obvious reasons, completely ridiculous. 108 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 1: But we're gonna be as sensitive as humanly possible about this, 109 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: But there are some kind of upsetting racial themes that 110 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,239 Speaker 1: we're going to get into in talking about America's war 111 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: on Chinese restaurants in the early nineteen hundreds. Now, I know, 112 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: I know, I know how this sounds. We know how 113 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: this sounds when you're hearing it a war on what. 114 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: And of course it's not as if America as a 115 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: stranger to waging war on various things, various things that 116 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: aren't nations, right. Uh. And it's kind of hard to 117 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: believe today because we know that there are over forty 118 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: one thousand Chinese restaurants in the US. This is an institution. 119 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: You know, we always think of think of about how 120 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: ubiquitous some fast food places might be, but Chinese restaurants 121 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,239 Speaker 1: are taking the cake. I believe there are about three 122 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: times as many Chinese restaurants as the number of McDonald's 123 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: and General So's Chicken. I've always been concerned about my 124 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: pronunciation of that as a general So yeah, yeah, Like 125 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with General So it's uh one of 126 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: the most ordered dishes online via grub hub um in 127 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: the nation. So it's like one of the most popular 128 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,239 Speaker 1: takeout foods that we have. Um. So let's just set 129 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: the scene a little bit, the creepy racist scene, if 130 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: you will. In the early to mid nineteen hundreds, the 131 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: um white establishment, which was made up of like local 132 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:01,119 Speaker 1: governments and labor unions and boy boy where the labor 133 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: unions a big part of this problem which we'll get 134 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: into you later, among other institutions in the US, basically 135 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: put out and supported these Jim Crow laws and other 136 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: regulations that were incredibly prohibitive, specifically to people of Asian descent. 137 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: Right and based on these regulations and the underlying and open, 138 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: we should say, this very open racist ideology, this establishment 139 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 1: waged a campaign trying to drive the Chinese restaurants of 140 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: the time out of business. And a lot of the 141 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 1: stuff that we're a lot A lot of the stuff 142 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: we're taking as inspiration in this episode comes from a 143 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: fantastic study written by Gabriel J. Chen and John Ormand 144 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: called the War against Chinese Restaurants. Yeah, the paper goes 145 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: into every possible angle of this and it's it's more 146 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: than we could hope to cover in a in a 147 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: thirty minute podcast, but um, it's it's it's such an 148 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: interesting microcosm for the history of racism in America too, 149 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: because it comes at it from all sides. Basically, you have, 150 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: you know, the idea of targeting a specific race with 151 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: mistreatment and trying to exclude them from earning a living 152 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 1: wage and being successful entrepreneurs in this country, to you know, 153 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: the boycotts and all of the things that go along 154 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: with that, and protests, to the whole idea of the 155 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: Chinese man being painted and portrayed as some sort of 156 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: insidious threat that would potentially woo unsuspecting white women into 157 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: their you know, underground opium layers, and you know, just 158 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: just the most awful stereotypical kinds of things you could 159 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: think of. Uh, this paper really dissects all of that 160 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: and gets to the heart of what's going on here. Yeah, 161 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: and the heart of what's going on is unfortunately all 162 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,359 Speaker 1: too familiar because it obeys some of the same patterns 163 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: we have seen in history before. And then the strangest 164 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: and craziest thing about it is the question, did America 165 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: wage war on Chinese restaurants? Sounds ridiculous and the answer 166 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: is yes, absolutely and no. You mentioned some uh, some 167 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: of the prongs of their argument here and there there 168 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 1: two sides, right, there's the economic side, as South Park 169 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: characters would say, they're taking our gerbs, right, Yeah, I 170 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,359 Speaker 1: mean there was you know, a lot of Chinese immigration 171 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: happened in the early eighteen hundreds as a result of 172 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: their willingness to work for less money. And you know, 173 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: we built the Transcontinental Railroad and that was a huge 174 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: part of that labor force. And you know, of course, 175 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: you you leave your home and you come to the 176 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: land of opportunity and the hopes of making a better 177 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: life for yourself and then surprised, guys, you're treated like 178 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 1: utter garbage and paid nothing and given no protections because 179 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: the unions literally would not allow folks of Chinese descent 180 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: to be a member, right exactly. And you know, labor 181 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: unions are a complex thing in US history, so we're 182 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: not denigrating the idea of labor unions overall. This is 183 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: not capital l capital you labor unions the concept. This 184 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: is about the provable, indisputable actions of labor unions in 185 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 1: this time because you see, they thought that these restaurants 186 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: for people who are able to literally through backbreaking work 187 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: probably no small amount of luck and endless determination. People 188 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: who started their own restaurants were being targeted because they 189 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 1: were seeing a competition for American restaurants and that they 190 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 1: were taking away jobs, right, good American jobs in this 191 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: case pretty much white people restaurant jobs. And the idea 192 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: of this threat was to them a to these labor unions. 193 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: It was not so much an act of aggression as 194 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: it was some sort of act of defense or survivalism. Noel, 195 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: you've already already mentioned the fear that uh, these these 196 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 1: strange men would capture the white women and involved them 197 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: in slavery essentially for opium. And this also, I think 198 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 1: shows how how much of a dearth of education there 199 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: was regarding the history of the West, China and opium, 200 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: because we we haven't talked about on this show. But 201 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: in the Opium Wars, one of the main reasons they 202 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: occurred is because the Chinese government said, please stop forcing 203 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: opium on our people when it was really happening. So 204 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: it's an interesting and heartbreaking switcher. As as you said, 205 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: this immigration had been in play since the eighteen fifties, 206 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: and as these as people who came over from China 207 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: began to prosper and save money, they started opening their 208 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: own businesses American Dream right textbook American Dream so to 209 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: quote from um an email interview conducted with the author 210 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: of that paper, Gabriel Jack chen Um non Chinese American 211 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: cooks and waiters and restaurant owners really wanted the Chinese 212 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: restaurants gone. But what got the labor movement as a 213 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: whole interested was restricting immigration in general and keeping Asians 214 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: out of the workforce entirely. Yeah. Absolutely, And this this 215 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 1: is a strange case because it begins to enter legislation. 216 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: This fearmongering and this prejudice led to Congress passing laws 217 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: that ex iplicitly stopped, blocked, halted, cut off Chinese immigration, 218 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: starting with the Chinese Exclusion Act of eighteen eighty two 219 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: and The thing is, when the earliest Chinese restaurants started 220 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:18,839 Speaker 1: in the US, they were not billing themselves as quote 221 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: unquote Chinese restaurants. The restauranteurs were assimilating. They were including 222 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: American food, you know, like grilled steak of roast chicken, 223 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: you know, whatever is around too. I mean, we also 224 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: think about supply chains. In that time, they were probably 225 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: making foods that were easily made from surrounding areas, right 226 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: and agricultural resources. But this didn't stop the unions from 227 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: going after Chinese restaurants, and they used different tactics to 228 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: do this. In some communities, the white union members would 229 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: do what is almost a mafioso tactic. They would go 230 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: into the restaurant and they would say, well, you know 231 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: we're going and give you just warn in here be 232 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: about time to leave town. Wednesday is a good trip forever. Yeah, 233 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: I mean in that paper, there's a whole section on 234 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: some of these attempts to literally run these folks out 235 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: of town like on a rail. Yes, and this was 236 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: not the only arrow in the quiver of these labor unions. 237 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: They also organized boycotts, and a boycott would be you've 238 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: seen these in the modern day boycott in this instance 239 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: would be something like a group of people getting together 240 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: to maybe protests outside of a restaurant, to pass out 241 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: handbills talking about this this menace, and to exhort friends, neighbors, 242 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: and loved ones not to go to this restaurant, to 243 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: make it feel that it's somehow a civic responsibility not 244 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: to support this establishment. And when you bring it back 245 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: to the labor unions, it becomes basically like a national 246 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: boycott because they made a huge age deal about not 247 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: patronizing any businesses that weren't connected to the labor unions, 248 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: and they would not allow people of Asian descent um, 249 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: whether they are you know, even children of immigrants to 250 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: join the unions um. Therefore, they were essentially telling all 251 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: of their members to have nothing to do with any 252 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: business that had any connection with you know, these these people. Yeah, 253 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: so let's let's think about this in the human perspective. 254 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: I love that you point this out. So even if 255 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: you were born in the US, maybe your parents immigrated 256 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: and you were born in California, that law would still 257 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: apply to you. It's something more. It's the layer of 258 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: race instead of just the layer of citizenship and Let's 259 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: imagine for a second the other side of the argument. 260 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: Let's say that you are a labor union member and 261 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: you don't have a problem with these other restaurants. Heck, 262 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: once a week you go out for family dinner at 263 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: your favorite place and you order chop suey, which is 264 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: a whole different thing, right, but because you were in 265 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: the union, you can. It's you're not only told not 266 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: to do it, but there will be consequences if you do, uh, 267 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,959 Speaker 1: go to this restaurant. Yeah, And speaking of chop suey, 268 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 1: that was actually a kind of an Americanized m Asian 269 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: dish that became, you know, a centerpiece for um, these 270 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,719 Speaker 1: restaurants that were popping up all over the place, especially 271 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: in California. They were called chop suey houses. And it 272 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: was a dish that was like a stir fried mix 273 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: of meat and vegetables and eggs over noodles. And I 274 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: was looking it up and apparently the origin of the 275 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: f the terms chop suey comes from the idea of 276 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: reusing leftovers, so sort of like you know, whatever you 277 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: have left in the frid So it's not a specific 278 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: set of ingredients, it's just kind of like whatever's around. Um, 279 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: but they were really popular. And these restaurants were popping 280 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: up all over the place, and you know, the they 281 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: were the target of all kinds of racist animosity, um 282 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: wherever they were found, even though they were certainly also 283 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: pretty popular. Right, people were people were obviously building restaurants 284 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: to meet demand. Right if people didn't like this food, 285 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 1: then these would these restaurants wouldn't exist. That's just how 286 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: this business would work. When the boycotts didn't work, though, 287 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: and when the threats didn't work, both to let's remember 288 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: the people who own the restaurants and the people who 289 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: already existed in labor unions, there was another step, and 290 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: a very serious step. This is where a story takes 291 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: an even darker turn. There was a missionary named el 292 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: Ci Siegel and she was found murdered in nineteen nine 293 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: in a room above a Chinese restaurant in New York City. 294 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: And this, as Marcavelli in cold and I would say, 295 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: evil as it sounds, was the opportunity that these anti 296 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: immigration forces have been waiting for. Yeah, this became a 297 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: really huge story, not just in New York but all 298 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 1: across the country. And there's a really great article on 299 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: the side of the tenement museum, and it's got some 300 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: great clips of the headlines. One of them is fine 301 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: miss Seagal dead in trunk. Her body was found in 302 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: a trunk, um strangled with a rope around her neck. 303 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: And she was actually the granddaughter of a very well 304 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,719 Speaker 1: known Union general from the Civil War, so this was 305 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: a pretty big deal. One of the other headlines was 306 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: Chinese suspected of slaying white girl is in custody. Yikes. 307 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: It's like, how much more divisive can you get in 308 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: a headline. It's like where they were definitely trying to 309 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: push an agenda here and stir up hysteria and kind 310 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 1: of like a panic you know too. Oh, we've got 311 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: to do something about this problem. This the inherent threat 312 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 1: that has now gone beyond. This is me speaking hypothetically, 313 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: the voice of these kind of awful people um has 314 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: gone yawn, just threatening us monetarily, but there is a 315 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: legitimate threat to our children. Things insidious, menace, think of 316 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: the children. We have a moral imperative. And this propagandization, 317 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: this this smear campaign reached a fever pitch. It became 318 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: a media tropes when when Elsie Seaguals death triggered a 319 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: new era of this. It came from a pre existing thing, 320 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 1: this white female victimization. In Chin's paper, they cite an 321 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: eight film called King of the Opium Ring, and it 322 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: features a clown who rescues a young white woman in 323 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: dire straits on the balcony of a Chinese restaurant. This 324 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: thing played around the country. People loved it. So it wasn't, 325 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: you know, tabula raz It wasn't a blank slate for 326 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: the labor unions too exploit this stuff emotionally. And the 327 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: Seagull murder lad to lobbying for laws that completely banned 328 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: white women, exclusively white women, not just from working at 329 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 1: a Chinese restaurant, but from visiting one as a customer. 330 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: And now we have the benefit of history when we 331 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: think about the murder. Well, it's crazy too, because I mean, 332 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: the language and this legislation is just absurdly Obviously it's racist, 333 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: but it's really sexist that it talks about how women 334 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: are somehow weak willed and you know, appliable and easily 335 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: you know, led astray, and just very condescending stuff. But 336 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 1: as it turns out, this case had a pretty interesting conclusion. 337 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: So it turns out that the apartment where else where 338 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: Elsie Siegel's body was discovered, belonged to a man by 339 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: the name of Leon Ling, whose cousin owned the restaurant 340 00:21:55,160 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: UM underneath the apartment, and they found a box with 341 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: a whole lot of love letters from Um miss siegeal 342 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: to this man Leon Ling, and apparently some of them 343 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: sounded very as though she were pleading with him to 344 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: not leave her, or you know, to to stay with her. 345 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: And it also came out that there was another player 346 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: in this story. There was a man Um who was 347 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: seen as being a potential jealous uh spurned lover of 348 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: Miss Seagull. And this man's name was Chew Gain, and 349 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: he admitted to Um also being in a relationship with 350 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: Elsie Uh and that he had received anonymous letters threatening 351 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: her life. And then eventually the police discovered another man 352 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 1: by the name of Chew Gain who admitted to of 353 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: having having had a relationship with Um. Elsie any sieved 354 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 1: all these anonymous letters threatening his life and her life 355 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: if they didn't in the relationship Um. Ultimately, the cops 356 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: arrested three people, and um Ling eventually left the country 357 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: and was never apprehended and the murders apparently an open case, 358 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: you know, more than a years later. But all of 359 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 1: this stuff just stirred up these wild rumors that things 360 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: from like Elsie had killed herself to you know, the 361 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: Chinese community had smuggled ling out of the country. So 362 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: all of this just served to pour fuel on this 363 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: you know, racist fire that was burning already, and because 364 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: it was such a sensational story, it kind of spread this, 365 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: you know, all over the country, and this this went 366 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: city to city. Now that's not to say that some 367 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: conscientious local politicians didn't fight against these bills, some mayors 368 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: vetoed them. But there was a change there was there 369 00:23:55,800 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: was this wave of people who were convinced, convinced that 370 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 1: the enemy was within and the enemy was making delicious 371 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: food as a cover for some larger, perfidious motive opponents. Luckily, 372 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: luckily for me, the opponents were not successful in ridding 373 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: cities of Chinese restaurants, and eventually the good news is 374 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: that the organized movement against the restaurants started to fade out. 375 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: One of the reasons the Chin sites that have faded 376 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: out is pretty ugly, but it makes sense. It's the 377 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: Immigration Act of nineteen four, which made things worse in 378 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: terms of immigration because it took the Chinese Exclusion Act 379 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: that just banned Chinese laborers, and then it expanded it 380 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: to include any immigrant from the Asian continent, which is insane. 381 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: These laws, according to Chin, gave the White powers structure 382 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: that Nolan I mentioned earlier, a little bit of I 383 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: guess you say, reassurance, a security blanket where they said, well, 384 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: we don't have to worry anymore about our jobs and 385 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: our incomes being taken quote unquote, and this in the 386 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: popular mindset, meant that Asian Americans were not going to 387 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: be a labor threat, at least not as much as 388 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: they were seen at the time. Okay, So you that 389 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: I felt like there was a silver lining coming there, Ben, 390 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 1: and I just I just don't. I don't, I don't 391 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: see it. Yeah, basically you're saying like it got better 392 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: because it got worse, you know. I uh, yeah, I 393 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,120 Speaker 1: tell you know, I think I think that might be 394 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: the case. And I guess what I'm getting at. As 395 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 1: it got better in terms of there weren't there wasn't 396 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 1: as much of a problem for the folks that were 397 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: doing horrible, angry racist stuff. So therefore some of the horrible, 398 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: angry racist stuff stopped, I guess. But but it didn't. 399 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: See that's the thing. It didn't get better for this 400 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: power structure because it never got worse, you know what 401 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: I mean, Like this, this threat, this this perspective of 402 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: a threat is clearly based on racist ideology. It's not 403 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: based it's it's not a solid economical argument, you know 404 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: what I mean. I think it wasn't until the was 405 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,360 Speaker 1: it the forties that you that the US lifted this 406 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: ban on on Chinese immigration or no, it wasn't on immigration. 407 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: It was on Chinese people becoming naturalized US citizens. So 408 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: as as far as recently as the forties, this was 409 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: this was a concern. But you know what's funny, like 410 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: what always happens is what really turned the popular mindset, um, 411 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 1: you know in the favor of some of these business owners, 412 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: was you know, celebrities doing stuff. And uh, you know, 413 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: we've got like Bob Hope and and Ronald Reagan were 414 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: big fans of a place in San Francisco called Charlie 415 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: Lowe's Forbidden City, which is such a cool name, pretty place, um, 416 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: And it was like a nightclub and a restaurant in 417 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: San Francisco's Chinatown. Um. Yeah, I was this guy named 418 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: Larry Ching who was considered, uh, the Chinese Sinatra, and 419 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: I was betting this article on the San Francisco Gate. 420 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: There was also like a Chinese Sophie Tucker, a Chinese 421 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: Fred Astaire, probably a Chinese Sammy Davis Jr. I don't 422 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: know what have you. But they always had to be couched, 423 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: you know, as some American you know, popular to make 424 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: it work. Yeah. Um, places like this because of the 425 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: appearance of acceptance from influencers like you know, these movie 426 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: stars and president presidents. Uh, it's people started to kind 427 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 1: of like chill out about it a little bit. So 428 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: what changed? You know? We have these celebrity endorsements, one 429 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: of which, famously by Man would later go on to 430 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: serve as US President. But the wheels of legislation often 431 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 1: grind slow. And as we said, it was until forty 432 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: three that the specific ban on Chinese people naturalizing occurred. 433 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: But even after that point, immigration laws made it incredibly 434 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: difficult for people of Chinese origin to immigrate. And this 435 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 1: was in this lasted up until get this, nineteen sixty eight, 436 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: three years after the immigration and Nationality Act of nineteen 437 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: sixty five was enacted into law, So three years after 438 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 1: it was supposed to happen, it happens. Mind boggling, and 439 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: in the sixty takes so long to do normal stuff 440 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: in this country. I don't get it. Um, But you know, 441 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: now here we are, as we said at the top 442 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: of the show, they're just you know, thousands and thousands 443 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: and thousands of Chinese restaurants. It's like a hugely popular 444 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: family meal night takeaway, you know thing. I love it, 445 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: My kid loves it. It's very delicious, you know, tasty food, 446 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: and a lot of it like too. This is it's 447 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: such a such an amazing variety of things to like 448 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: in like different styles between Sechuan and Cantonese and all 449 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: of the spices, and it's just I mean, I'm I'm 450 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: a huge, huge fan of Chinese food. Yeah. When we 451 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,479 Speaker 1: were looking at some of the research here, my my 452 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: question for some of my friends started becoming, when's the 453 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: last time you're ate Chinese food? Everybody, it seems, had 454 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: it in like the past month. At some point, you know, 455 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: people are voting with their taste butts. But the journey 456 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: isn't over yet. Because the authors say that they see 457 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: clear echoes of the early twentieth century today. We've got 458 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: a great quote from Chin who says, there's a long 459 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: tradition in the United States of good things being reserved 460 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: for white folks and misguided economic race tinged xenophobia. The 461 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: waves of discrimination have always proved to be unnecessary and 462 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: count to productive. And honestly, I agree because when we 463 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: see these sort of who wasn't Mark Twain said that 464 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: history doesn't repeat itself, but sometimes it rhymes. I'm paraphrasing there. Yeah. 465 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: George Lucas always also said that about them, how brilliant 466 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: the Star Wars prequels were always always saying like it rhymes. 467 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: I don't know what he means by that, but the 468 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: slight Red Letter media that does these amazing kind of 469 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: lampoons of these Star Wars prequels, they're always using this 470 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: clip of George Lucas talking about everything rhyming. I am 471 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: going to check that out and tell you right now, 472 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: I am in the mood for some orange chicken because 473 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: just doing this this episode has made me so hungry, 474 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,479 Speaker 1: and I feel so fortunate that we're able to go 475 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: find Chinese restaurants I mean, what if this what if 476 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: this went the other way man, what if they were 477 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: non existent? That would be a shame. That would be 478 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: a crying shame. Any One thing I really love about 479 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: living in Atlanta is that we have this amazing, um 480 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: explosion of fantastic you know, culinary options on We've got 481 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: a place called Buford Highway where there are you know, 482 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: everything from Korean to Chinese to all kinds of Latin 483 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: American food, Ethiopian, whatever you want. And that's That's one 484 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: thing that's cool about living in the United States is 485 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: that you have access to all of this great stuff, 486 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: and you know, I wouldn't have any other way. I 487 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: think that's kind of what makes uh makes this country special. 488 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: And this means that we are all fortunate. There's a 489 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: happy ending to this story. Of course, no story ever 490 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: really ends, so maybe it's better to say, at this 491 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: point in time, it feels very fortunate. And for now 492 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: that's where our episode ends, but not our show. We 493 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: will be back very soon with more ridiculous history. And 494 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: in the meantime, we'd like to hear from you, so 495 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: you write us your ideas and tell us you know 496 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: what a bummer this episode was spoiler alert. We know 497 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: we're bummed out too, but you know, you gotta learn 498 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: from the stuff and makes you appreciate where we are now. 499 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: I guess, oh sorry, I'm just it's a it is 500 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: a bummer because I'm starting to think about like we're 501 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: not that much better. It's like people are still awful, 502 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: and you know, there's just a whole another culture that 503 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: people are acting this way towards. You know, there's really 504 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: no silver lining at all here. I hate to sound 505 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: so depressed about it, but it's just kind of making 506 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: me realize, like this notion of like, oh, we've come 507 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: so far, and maybe some of us have, but I 508 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: don't know, like we've come so far in one regard 509 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: and devolved so far in another. You know, I wonder, 510 00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: I wonder what other cycles like this exists. There's obviously 511 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: there's obviously modern day versions of this where maybe some 512 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: of the language has changed, but the intent is not. 513 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: I know, I guess. I mean, I just saw an 514 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: article the other day about like, you know, a Jewish 515 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: deli in New York being sent an envelope with like 516 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 1: a swastika on it and saying, you know, Jews get out, 517 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: and things like that, so, you know, I mean, this 518 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: is I think this stuff is is informative and illuminating, 519 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: but it's like it's just a bummer to me because 520 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: it's like I don't feel like we fixed it exactly. 521 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know how do you fix something 522 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: like this that's so deep seated in certain people. I 523 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: guess it's not as widespread. I don't know. Well, it's 524 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: also it may be a downer, but it's very very 525 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: important to have knowledge of this out in the world. 526 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: And yeah, it's true. I'm sorry, but I'm sorry. This 527 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: is Uh, this is so crushing to me. I just 528 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: kind of like had a moment where I started to 529 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: think about, you know, this is there's so many parallels 530 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: with this story. I guess that we're seeing now in particular. Um, 531 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: but you know, I think if if we just at 532 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: least educate ourselves, then we can speak out when we 533 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: see people acting like jerks and speaking and speaking out. 534 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: We'd like to hear from you. What do you think 535 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: about these sorts of cycles in history? Also, what's your 536 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: favorite Chinese food? I think I've thrown that one in 537 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,919 Speaker 1: there because I'm hungry. You're into your the orange chicken guy, 538 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. It just came to me. 539 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: But it's always a game time decision when I'm in 540 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: front of the menu. I mean when it comes to 541 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: like super americanized Chinese food, huge fan of like orange 542 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,919 Speaker 1: chicken especially, I like, you know, the crappier the better. 543 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: I like Mall Orange Chicken. There's a particular you know, 544 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: flavor that Mall Orange Chicken has for me and a 545 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: soft spot in my heart, very nostalgia because I remember 546 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: being a kid and eating orange chicken at the mall. 547 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: But when it comes to more traditional stuff like you've 548 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 1: you've done the dim something, Oh yeah, yeah, Yeah. We've 549 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: got a great place on Beover Highway called Canton House. 550 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: Been there, yeah, which is greatwin dim Sum also a 551 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: lot of regional cuisine. Fan of Sue, and I can't 552 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: wait to get out there. Actually, I'm I'm gonna head 553 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: out and grab something to eat. Yeah. The dim sums 554 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 1: so cool because you literally don't know what you're getting. 555 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: It's just a mixed bag. It's like a surprise every 556 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: and every bite and they're all like small bites. But 557 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: now we're just talking about delicious Chinese food and we've 558 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: got to get out of here, don't we been? Yes, 559 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 1: yes we do. My friends, so, speaking of speaking out 560 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: and uh, speaking of surprising things, speak out right to us, 561 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: surprise us. We'd love to hear from you. Yeah, we're 562 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,879 Speaker 1: on those social media's. Just search for us on Facebook, UM, 563 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,919 Speaker 1: and Instagram and you'll find us. You can also send 564 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: us an email at ridiculous at how stuff works dot 565 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 1: com and we will be back with you very soon 566 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: for more ridiculous history, depending on how long it takes 567 00:35:47,560 --> 00:36:13,359 Speaker 1: for the Orange Chicken. Yeah ye. For more podcasts from 568 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 569 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.