Speaker 1: So I have this.
Speaker 2: I have a redwood growing outside of my office here
Speaker 2: when I when I moved into my house, there were
Speaker 2: two redwoods, and you don't really they don't really grow
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles. There's not many of them but there,
Speaker 2: and one of them is really struggling because it's too hot,
Speaker 2: there's too much sun. But this other one right outside
Speaker 2: of my office is thriving. It is now twenty feet tall.
Speaker 2: It is beautiful.
Speaker 3: It's feeding off your energy.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, well, so yeah, you know, you guys know,
Speaker 2: I literally grew up underneath giant redwood, Like we have
Speaker 2: hundreds of them on on our property, and so I
Speaker 2: grew up climbing these trees, just playing under them.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I used to like I used to climb one tree
Speaker 2: in particular to read in it, and I would.
Speaker 1: Use the.
Speaker 4: Tree poets and there's the there're these beautiful, ancient, endangered species.
Speaker 4: But I realized, like I have a very intense identification
Speaker 4: and dedication to a species of plant, you know, And
Speaker 4: I mean for an atheist, this is like the closest
Speaker 4: I have to a spiritual connection used.
Speaker 3: To drop fake dead bodies out of these trees.
Speaker 4: Yes, So do you guys have or like a certain
Speaker 4: animal or plant that you've ever identified with or cared about.
Speaker 5: No, no, no, even even going back to like Save
Speaker 5: the Whales in the eighties, like you didn't care about
Speaker 5: dolphins or whales.
Speaker 6: Them.
Speaker 7: I just don't identify with I hope a dolphin has
Speaker 7: a good life. I'm never you know, I wish the best,
Speaker 7: foresaid dolphin or whale, but I don't identify with them.
Speaker 7: You know, like the gas station shirts you can get
Speaker 7: that have the whales and the wolves and stuff like that.
Speaker 8: I was a teenager.
Speaker 3: Oh I remember your wolf face? Yeah, I Lance.
Speaker 9: Lance gave me a necklace in the nineties that was
Speaker 9: three dolphins swimming in like a circle. And it was
Speaker 9: one of those things you could do on your touristy
Speaker 9: vacation where you would pick an oyster and then you
Speaker 9: get to pop it open and see if there's a
Speaker 9: pearl inside, and so then the dolphins have their swimming
Speaker 9: in a circle and you put the pearl in the
Speaker 9: middle of it.
Speaker 7: The dolphins seemed confused if they're just swimming in a circle.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know what dolphins do.
Speaker 9: But there was a point where then after he gave
Speaker 9: me the necklace, where it was like.
Speaker 3: Do I do I like dolphins? Am I had? Am
Speaker 3: I going to be a dolphin girl now?
Speaker 9: And then it was very nor lance and I also
Speaker 9: went horseback riding.
Speaker 4: But so he was trying to make you into a
Speaker 4: different animal girls.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think he wanted me
Speaker 9: to like have a thing. It was going to make
Speaker 9: it easier to buy me gifts. Yeah, but no, I
Speaker 9: mean I like, I like dogs.
Speaker 7: Yeah, you guys have dogs.
Speaker 4: I don't have a dog. And way too many animals.
Speaker 4: So now I don't even get that.
Speaker 9: You know what, you know what I what I was
Speaker 9: as a kid that I we've never really talked about.
Speaker 3: I was a rat girl.
Speaker 4: We had rats.
Speaker 3: We had rats, many rats as a pet.
Speaker 7: Or you was just your home wasn't clean.
Speaker 3: No, no, we had rat as a pet.
Speaker 9: So the story how we rats is actually it's one
Speaker 9: of my it's one of my favorite childhood stories because
Speaker 9: it's terrible and my So we went to the pet
Speaker 9: store and my mom was like, oh, we should get hamsters,
Speaker 9: and so we got two hamsters. Yeah, so we got
Speaker 9: two hamsters. My brother picked a hamster and I picked
Speaker 9: a hamster. The hamster my brother picked was was a
Speaker 9: little chunky and cute as can be and all gray,
Speaker 9: and he was like wild and not super kind, like
Speaker 9: you know the balls you could put a hamster in
Speaker 9: and they go running. When you tried to get him
Speaker 9: out of that thing, he'd bite you and he'd every
Speaker 9: single time he'd bite the tip of my finger and
Speaker 9: I'd bleed. So his we kind of I was like,
Speaker 9: that hamster's a jerk. I don't like that hamster. My
Speaker 9: hamster was cream and she was yetle and she's so
Speaker 9: sweet and I loved her and she never bit me.
Speaker 9: So they didn't tell us that there's any reason to
Speaker 9: not put the male and female hamster together, and we
Speaker 9: weren't really thinking about that. We had one big cage
Speaker 9: that then had a tube that connected to another cage,
Speaker 9: so they each had their own space. And the way
Speaker 9: our rooms were set up, my brother and my rooms
Speaker 9: were right next to each other, and there was like
Speaker 9: a linen closet in the hallway right outside our rooms,
Speaker 9: and that's where the hamster cage lived. Well, one night
Speaker 9: we heard all this commotion and my brother, who's four
Speaker 9: years younger than me, Chris, yelled from his room Danielle,
Speaker 9: and I said, yeah, and he said, I can't sleep
Speaker 9: the hamsters are making so much noise. And I said, okay,
Speaker 9: no problem, I'll get up and close your door. So
Speaker 9: I got up and I closed his bedroom door, and
Speaker 9: then I went into my room and I closed my
Speaker 9: door and we went to sleep. The next morning, I
Speaker 9: wake up to the sound of my brother screaming, and
Speaker 9: my hamster is sitting in the corner of her little
Speaker 9: side and she's like this, and she's cleaning her face
Speaker 9: and she is covered in blood, my little white cream
Speaker 9: hamster covered. Then she had eaten the head of my
Speaker 9: brother's hamster. So we panicked. We were like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 9: what is this. And my mom just picked up the cage,
Speaker 9: put him in the car and then brought him.
Speaker 3: Back to the pet store and was like, this ham.
Speaker 9: Or decapitated this hamster. We do not want these anymore.
Speaker 3: And they were like, oh, yeah, you can't put them together.
Speaker 3: Do not tell you that, obviously, not, I have to
Speaker 3: tell you. My brother then drew murder hamster art for years.
Speaker 4: In Hamster, there's a.
Speaker 9: Picture of a bed with him sleeping in it, with
Speaker 9: z's coming up from his head, and then a bloody
Speaker 9: massacre going on right outside, and he for years blamed
Speaker 9: himself because he said, when when I couldn't sleep and
Speaker 9: they were making all that noise, had a scream for help,
Speaker 9: screaming for help, and I just wanted to sleep.
Speaker 1: I had the same thing.
Speaker 7: It sounds so weird, but I had a very traumatic
Speaker 7: experience the same kind of way. I had a gerbil
Speaker 7: named Charcoal.
Speaker 6: I was going to say, you ate your roommate, no ird,
Speaker 6: this gerbal named charcoal And we got cats and I
Speaker 6: heard I was like eight or nine years old and
Speaker 6: I was downstairs and I heard a crash upstairs, and
Speaker 6: I was too scared to go up and check what
Speaker 6: it was.
Speaker 7: And my cats had knocked over their things age and
Speaker 7: killed the gerbil. And so to this day, any noise
Speaker 7: I go and check, I'm like.
Speaker 9: Because you don't want another gerbil to die, you know, left.
Speaker 7: Behind Gerbils on my watch are going to die. So
Speaker 7: that same thing where it's like, had I just checked,
Speaker 7: I would have been fine.
Speaker 9: Well that's how we ended up with rats, is that
Speaker 9: the people at the pet store said, to be honest,
Speaker 9: hamsters are disgusting creatures.
Speaker 3: If you want a good pet, here's a rat.
Speaker 9: And my mom was like, the tail and they were like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 9: you just need to get past the tail. But they're
Speaker 9: actually great pets, and so we did. We got a
Speaker 9: We got a rat named Joey and he was spectacular
Speaker 9: the rat.
Speaker 3: Joe kidding me?
Speaker 7: Are you just saying this?
Speaker 6: Now?
Speaker 2: We got to get two rats named one Joey and
Speaker 2: the other Stanky for keto, Are.
Speaker 7: You Joey the rat?
Speaker 9: I had Joey the rat, and I had him while
Speaker 9: we were on Boy Meets World?
Speaker 4: Made this connection.
Speaker 3: Joey was amazing. Joey also knew his name.
Speaker 9: He could do it so Joey could sit up on
Speaker 9: his hind legs and grab the top of his cage
Speaker 9: and then he'd pull himself up and so with his head,
Speaker 9: he'd pop the top of his case. He'd popped the
Speaker 9: lid off of his cage, and then he could pull
Speaker 9: himself up and he'd run out, and we'd come home
Speaker 9: and Joey would be missing, and we'd go Joey and
Speaker 9: he'd come running out from wherever he was.
Speaker 1: Could he also a Yes?
Speaker 3: Was he musical?
Speaker 4: Was he musically talented?
Speaker 1: And he started great?
Speaker 4: He started a great indie band, Kylie.
Speaker 9: Yeah, but he ain't got no, he is so well,
Speaker 9: I can't believe this. Yes, and then I had and
Speaker 9: then I had rats named Jedediah. I named them after
Speaker 9: Tapega's dad. I had Chloe and Jedediah. And we had
Speaker 9: a rat named Laser. My brother named him Laser, but
Speaker 9: then we figured out it was a girl, and so
Speaker 9: then we changed her Lazy.
Speaker 3: Well, I was rat girl.
Speaker 5: I was a total l So, getting back to my initial, yes,
Speaker 5: so I was a rack girl.
Speaker 4: Yes, I am a Redwood tree person.
Speaker 1: You are a.
Speaker 3: Joey the rat baby. That's now I know. Now, I
Speaker 3: know why he stands to me.
Speaker 9: So, Joe Cammel, Will's Will's spiritual friend.
Speaker 3: Welcome to pod meets World. I'm Daniel Fishl.
Speaker 4: I'm Redwood Strong.
Speaker 7: I'm wilfredll.
Speaker 9: It would be hard to describe a young writer strong
Speaker 9: without including the words counting and crows. At some point
Speaker 9: in your explanation, you see young writer and old soul
Speaker 9: new and was set with his favorite things, carrying a
Speaker 9: book in his monstrous Jinko jeans pocket, giving a white
Speaker 9: rose to a girlfriend at age twelve, Then every year
Speaker 9: after turning me against my mother and praising culture shifting
Speaker 9: albums like August and everything after, and recovering the satellites
Speaker 9: from his favorite band and his love for the Bay
Speaker 9: Area musicians. Claiming a hometown very close to his own
Speaker 9: was infectious, turning Will and I into super fans as well,
Speaker 9: so much so that at some point in my early
Speaker 9: twenties I jumped on staged and danced as they played.
Speaker 9: But we will not focus on that for now. Their
Speaker 9: lead singer, one of the most talented songwriters of the decade,
Speaker 9: if not our generation, has come up multiple times on
Speaker 9: this podcast, and for good reason. The spirit of the
Speaker 9: Counting Crows has a very similar spirit as Boy Meets World.
Speaker 9: Both had heart and substance and an ability to speak
Speaker 9: to fans beyond just the tropes of our time. The
Speaker 9: Grammy and Academy Award nominated singer has survived the test
Speaker 9: of time with his body of work and eventual collaborations,
Speaker 9: speaking to listeners just as much now as he did
Speaker 9: when he first debuted with the absolute classic Mister Jones.
Speaker 9: He's still touring today, selling out stops all over the world,
Speaker 9: but today we're gonna make him talk about something he
Speaker 9: never thought he'd even think about again in this life.
Speaker 9: For more than three minutes, Boy meets World. We're honored
Speaker 9: to welcome a true muse for us cast members and
Speaker 9: someone I'm hoping will be Writer's new best friend, The
Speaker 9: Counting Crow's lead singer, Adam Durretz.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, thank you so much for being here
Speaker 3: with us.
Speaker 1: Hello you guys. It has been forever I know.
Speaker 9: Right wow, So we would be remiss if we did
Speaker 9: not acknowledge that between you Adam being here on the
Speaker 9: podcast with us and Lisa Loebe doing one of our
Speaker 9: live shows, this podcast has quickly become a bit of
Speaker 9: a make a wish for writers musical dayste.
Speaker 1: It absolutely has.
Speaker 4: It's like, let's go back to nineteen ninety six over
Speaker 4: and over and over again.
Speaker 9: Yes, and give writer all of his make all of
Speaker 9: his ninety six streams come true. So do you remember
Speaker 9: Adam Ryder coming to a lot of the shows and
Speaker 9: me coming to a lot of the shows?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, of course, and parties at the house too, Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course.
Speaker 7: I think I only met you once. So they were
Speaker 7: younger than me and they went out off on their
Speaker 7: own to all the cool concerts and stuff, and you, hello.
Speaker 1: Will, how are you?
Speaker 2: We were just rewatching an episode and I realized, like, oh,
Speaker 2: that was the episode where I left taping to go
Speaker 2: see my first Counting Crows concert, which was the Hollywood
Speaker 2: Grand Concert where you go wow really yeah, where you
Speaker 2: guys played all the Recovery and the satellite songs for
Speaker 2: the first time, And that was my first concert, and
Speaker 2: I remember just being like, I.
Speaker 4: Love all of these songs. This album's going to be amazing.
Speaker 8: And then had to wait like a year for the album.
Speaker 1: I remember that, So that was really cool. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: were getting ready to like do make the record. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was great.
Speaker 8: Yeah, a great way to get introduced to all the songs.
Speaker 8: But anyway, we were just watching that and I was like.
Speaker 4: Sixteen, yes, yes, ninety six.
Speaker 9: Well, and writer's real life love for you guys became
Speaker 9: a character trait of his fictional self. He wrote Counting
Speaker 9: Crows on Sean's folder that I then, yeah, there's Counting
Speaker 9: Crows and Strofty right, the words you tried to make happen.
Speaker 3: Counting Crows written on a.
Speaker 9: Sean notebook that you're holding up in the school hallway,
Speaker 9: and it was mentioned to be the Counting Crows was
Speaker 9: Shawn's favorite band. So did you know at the time
Speaker 9: that you and your music was actually influencing Sean from
Speaker 9: Boy Meets World at all?
Speaker 3: Was that in your zeitgeist at all?
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. Until I met Ryder, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure. I remember. One thing I do remember was
Speaker 1: that the show was like simultaneous with us, Yes, like
Speaker 1: I think you went on the air. Maybe it was
Speaker 1: the same fall that we went on tour for our
Speaker 1: first album, Like, yes, so I think we left in
Speaker 1: August of ninety three or something, and you went on
Speaker 1: tour in September of ninety or like. The show went
Speaker 1: on that year. I remember that and knowing about it,
Speaker 1: So maybe I did, which is that would be the
Speaker 1: reason I would know that well. I mostly remember me
Speaker 1: being Danielle and Ryder though a few years later. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a weird thing back then that people don't
Speaker 1: take into account that before all the streaming and things
Speaker 1: being out on DVDs, touring and primetime did not mix,
Speaker 1: you know, like shows that were on TV. You just
Speaker 1: like I mean, for all the talk about friends in
Speaker 1: our band, I had never seen the show because I
Speaker 1: had been on tour the whole time the show was
Speaker 1: on the air.
Speaker 9: Right, And when would you have been able to watch
Speaker 9: Primetime TV. You know, you're like on stage at the
Speaker 9: same time that shows are airing.
Speaker 1: Exactly, so like the whole television from that period, Like
Speaker 1: I had never seen Seinfeld until way later. I think
Speaker 1: it was around the same time as well, because I
Speaker 1: didn't see Seinfeld until it was like I had a
Speaker 1: DVD box set years later because I missed the entirety
Speaker 1: of the run on television. Wow.
Speaker 9: Well, we the three of us talk a lot about
Speaker 9: the experience of auditioning for a part on a show
Speaker 9: and then a month later you're on primetime TV for
Speaker 9: an audience of seventeen million people. And while researching your career,
Speaker 9: it's amazing you had a pretty similar situation. You had
Speaker 9: been in a few bands and then you formed Counting
Speaker 9: Crows and pretty quickly you were in like a bidding
Speaker 9: war between labels and mister Jones being one of the
Speaker 9: first songs you recorded.
Speaker 3: How did you then deal with that change in your life?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 1: Freaked out?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Mostly mostly, I just I mean I was a very
Speaker 1: shy person. I you know, I was dealing with a
Speaker 1: lot of mental illness too before then that I you know,
Speaker 1: wasn't talking about publicly, and you know, I had the
Speaker 1: social disorder, which you know, keeps you at a sort
Speaker 1: of distance from the world. So I was very hesitant
Speaker 1: around people you know, and then I was only all
Speaker 1: the people in the world you know, are looking at you.
Speaker 1: I found that to be very strange and uncomfortable. But
Speaker 1: you know, a lot when the other side of it
Speaker 1: is that when you're in a band, a lot of
Speaker 1: your life is spent in this bubble on the road
Speaker 1: where you are with people you do know. Early on
Speaker 1: we were mostly an opening band, but I had a
Speaker 1: good introduction to like all the new people at first
Speaker 1: as an opener for Suede and the Cranberries and then
Speaker 1: Cracker for a long time, you know, as they were
Speaker 1: all having success and we were the opening band, so
Speaker 1: I would you know, I got a chance to kind
Speaker 1: of work my way into it slowly because it was
Speaker 1: about I don't know, five or six seven months until
Speaker 1: it really blew up. Yeah.
Speaker 9: Well, you've been very vocal about the dissociative disorder, and
Speaker 9: I didn't realize that you were dealing with that before
Speaker 9: you had success as well, because the for our listeners
Speaker 9: who may not know what it is, but it's where
Speaker 9: you feel very distance your mind is very distance from
Speaker 9: the reality that you are experiencing, and it causes a
Speaker 9: lot of memory loss, right, Like you don't have a
Speaker 9: lot of strong memories from certain times of your life.
Speaker 1: Well, it can do that. It just kind of you
Speaker 1: just kind of live at a distance from things at times,
Speaker 1: and you know, it can blur out parts of your
Speaker 1: life a bit. But you know, I didn't talk about
Speaker 1: it back then because while it was a real problem
Speaker 1: for me, I didn't want to, like, you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't want to be a public circus, you know. But
Speaker 1: also it's you know, it wasn't the entirety of my life.
Speaker 1: It was just part of what was going on.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I was enjoying getting to be a rock star. I
Speaker 1: mean it was pretty cool, honestly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1: I mean especially because you know, you dream about this
Speaker 1: your whole life. You're in your bedroom by yourself. I mean,
Speaker 1: you guys all know this because you want to be
Speaker 1: an actor. But it seems like, how is anyone even
Speaker 1: going to know who I am? You know, like your
Speaker 1: bedroom in my case, in Berkeley or San Francisco, and
Speaker 1: you you writing songs, But it's not like how's the
Speaker 1: world's supposed to hear that, and then they do, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's it's really cool, you know, it is it's
Speaker 1: and you know it's that's thirty years ago now, the
Speaker 1: first album, it was thirty years this year. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I mean I've spent more of my life in this
Speaker 1: life than not, you know, which is I mean, it's
Speaker 1: really cool. It is everything I ever wanted.
Speaker 2: You've also you've explored this a lot on a conscious
Speaker 2: level in the songs themselves, you know, I mean there's
Speaker 2: the irony of like the lyrics to mister Jones, but
Speaker 2: then also just throughout your career, you know, you missus
Speaker 2: Potter's lullo By and more like when I Dream of Michaelangelo.
Speaker 2: You always you talk about this tension between the artist
Speaker 2: and the audience's identification with with the artists, and you know,
Speaker 2: for us, it's it's kind of simple. We can be
Speaker 2: like we're not our characters, right, Like that's a different person.
Speaker 2: And while there's a lot of crossover, you know, we
Speaker 2: look the same as Soundless, but it's it's but for you,
Speaker 2: you're actually you know, you are creating characters and narratives
Speaker 2: within your stories. But for the most part, it's it's
Speaker 2: a confessional point of view, it's it's you're writing about yourself.
Speaker 2: So I mean, yeah, when people confuse you with your character,
Speaker 2: does that feel I mean, what.
Speaker 9: Is that like?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I am my characters. There's no confusion.
Speaker 1: I mean, these songs are all about me. Every one
Speaker 1: of them is about me, you know. And and also
Speaker 1: you know, and I think you you build a career
Speaker 1: on something like that, and people identify with it, you know,
Speaker 1: they they because you know, you're talking about things you
Speaker 1: feel and things you go through in your life. And sure,
Speaker 1: some of the things are you know, not everybody gets
Speaker 1: to be a rock star or something, but a lot
Speaker 1: of it is just human expression and feelings and what
Speaker 1: human beings deal with when they try to like relate
Speaker 1: to each other. And I think that's what most of
Speaker 1: my songs are really about. And you know, the the
Speaker 1: the confusing part of it, I think for people is
Speaker 1: that I totally understand why people relate to all the
Speaker 1: things in the songs, but just not the same thing
Speaker 1: as knowing me, you know, because you're getting a very
Speaker 1: specific amount of information that I'm willing to share with you,
Speaker 1: right and and it's not the same thing as knowing
Speaker 1: a person. But I get why everybody wants to be
Speaker 1: pals because I'm the same way. You know, I want
Speaker 1: to be friends with all my idols too. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a weird thing. The and I mean,
Speaker 1: I explore it from both sides because certainly, you know,
Speaker 1: when you arrive in Hollywood and you discover that that
Speaker 1: TV and those movie screens are more windows than walls,
Speaker 1: you know that you can actually go through them and
Speaker 1: meet those people and date them or whatever. When you
Speaker 1: discover that, you know, it brings up a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of confusing things for you as well for myself, because
Speaker 1: you know, I realized that I was meeting all these
Speaker 1: you know girls I dreamt about or or imagine meeting,
Speaker 1: but your your picture of them is a character on
Speaker 1: a screen, you know, not a person. And you know,
Speaker 1: so like Missus Potters especially, is about you know, what
Speaker 1: are you doing fantasizing about fictional characters who look like
Speaker 1: the real people that portray them, but aren't the real
Speaker 1: people that portray them, you know, And it's a I
Speaker 1: found that to be kind of a fascinating subject. I mean,
Speaker 1: just because I realized I'm getting sucked into this I'm
Speaker 1: like self consciously doing this thing that I know is crazy,
Speaker 1: and yeah, no, it's a you know, pretty people people.
Speaker 1: You know, what are you gonna do? You know, I've
Speaker 1: been a geek, you know, I was a geeky kid.
Speaker 1: You know, I like Star Wars and yeah, there's all
Speaker 1: these girls. It was very confusing to me and fun
Speaker 1: and yeah, you know, somewhat disappointing.
Speaker 9: But Will Will literally went through the exact same thing.
Speaker 9: Will has tried to convince us. I think he has
Speaker 9: at this point that he was a nerdy, dorky kid
Speaker 9: that girls did not like, and then he moved out
Speaker 9: to LA and started Boy Meets World, and all of
Speaker 9: a sudden he was able to date famous actresses and
Speaker 9: how to urge.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's really bizarre when you go from you know,
Speaker 7: painting miniature figures and reading your fantasy novels to people
Speaker 7: in magazines wanting to date you. It's just it's and
Speaker 7: so you're the natural thing you do is you question
Speaker 7: if it's real, because it's like, why, how can how
Speaker 7: can this suddenly be happening on a Tuesday when last
Speaker 7: Tuesday I was was specifically told not to show up
Speaker 7: at the party because nobody wanted me there, So I mean,
Speaker 7: did you feel that same thing where you're you love?
Speaker 7: It's this weird balance of loving what you're doing but
Speaker 7: also questioning it every step of the way.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, fame is a hell of a glow up,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, it really does. It does make
Speaker 1: us all look a lot better. But I think part
Speaker 1: of it is that it's also like this affiday that
Speaker 1: you come with. You know, because you walk up to
Speaker 1: someone that you don't know at a party when you're younger,
Speaker 1: and it's like they have a whole world of skepticism,
Speaker 1: justifiably so, you know, and when you're famous, suddenly it
Speaker 1: comes with like, well, okay, I might want to meet
Speaker 1: him too, right, but then you still have to they
Speaker 1: have to like you over time. Nobody's sticking around for well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess some people do. But mostly what
Speaker 1: I thought that what I saw it as at the end,
Speaker 1: is that mostly it's it's an opportunity to meet people.
Speaker 1: You still have to be yourself and it is it
Speaker 1: is real. Uh, It's just you know, it's not real
Speaker 1: right at first, but that's just you know, the chance
Speaker 1: nothing's real. When you meet people, you're always putting on
Speaker 1: your best self. In any dating situation, we spend the
Speaker 1: beginning of our relationship being absolutely the best version of ourselves,
Speaker 1: and then you know, then you are who you are.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 1: I have friends who do this, unfortunately in marriage, where
Speaker 1: they're like the best husband ever, like ever possible for
Speaker 1: a while, and then it's like then they become themselves
Speaker 1: and they're still a good person, but it's inevitably a
Speaker 1: disappointment after the servant they were for a while, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It leads to some really really
Speaker 1: relationship problems.
Speaker 9: You know, Yeah, my husband just started very mediocre, so
Speaker 9: that I am never disappointed. He just is like, listen,
Speaker 9: it's not age, it's not getting any better than this.
Speaker 3: And now I'm just not disappointed because I know.
Speaker 1: I started a five.
Speaker 7: You're a good genius, honestly, absolutely genius.
Speaker 9: It's the same reason why when I get older, I
Speaker 9: am not going to tell anybody i'm younger. I'm going
Speaker 9: to say I'm five or ten years older than I
Speaker 9: really am. Like you look great, yeah, I'm like I'm
Speaker 9: sixty two. I'm sixty two. I'm definitely not going to
Speaker 9: go down.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 9: It is really interesting because entertainment is the only field where,
Speaker 9: whether you're an actor or a musician, suddenly your dating
Speaker 9: life and your personal life it becomes a major focal point.
Speaker 9: Like I don't know who my dentist dates or who
Speaker 9: my accountant dates. And yet you know, so much of
Speaker 9: your folklore, Adam was around your dating relationship, and yet
Speaker 9: you were releasing absolutely classic albums. Did it ever bother
Speaker 9: you that that there was that major distraction from the
Speaker 9: music you were creating.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because I also felt like, well a lot
Speaker 1: of it was fictional. I have dated people I've never
Speaker 1: met in my life. More some women than i've never
Speaker 1: met still never met in my life, are part of
Speaker 1: these like Google alerts that pop up on my phone
Speaker 1: about past dating histories, you know. And I felt like
Speaker 1: at the time also, you know, inevitably after a successful
Speaker 1: first record, there's always some kind of backlash. It's just
Speaker 1: there's no way around it, you know, because radio is
Speaker 1: going to play you as much as they can because
Speaker 1: that's their that's how they make their money. And you know,
Speaker 1: at some point you're just going to annoy the set
Speaker 1: of everybody. Yeah, you know, you get sick of that song.
Speaker 1: And I felt like after the first album. We spent
Speaker 1: about three albums where I do feel like they were
Speaker 1: kind of disregarded, and there the touring reviews and the
Speaker 1: album reviews had more to do with my dating life
Speaker 1: or my imagined dating life than they did with the
Speaker 1: records themselves. You know. It's it's one of the real
Speaker 1: disappointments in my career that Recovering the Satellites and This
Speaker 1: Desert Life and Hard Candy got kind of disregarded. Those
Speaker 1: three records in a lot of ways, you know, and
Speaker 1: they're some of my favorite of our work. You know,
Speaker 1: I really thought we got better and better right then,
Speaker 1: but it really wasn't until Saturday nights and Sunday mornings
Speaker 1: that the press came back around. You know.
Speaker 4: Well, I think part of.
Speaker 2: That is because August was such a huge hit. I mean,
Speaker 2: you guys were out of the gate, like, you know,
Speaker 2: next level kind of success. And I also remember that
Speaker 2: there was this thing, you know, in the nineties, which
Speaker 2: is thankfully not a thing anymore, but this whole notion
Speaker 2: of selling out, you know, like and that was it
Speaker 2: was so it was so negative to be a sellout.
Speaker 2: Do you remember feeling like worrying about that or how
Speaker 2: you wrestled with that in the nineties.
Speaker 1: Only worrying about like the perception of it, because the
Speaker 1: idea of it seems so stupid, Like it's in every
Speaker 1: other aspect of life, fame, entertainment, everything else. People are
Speaker 1: just supposed to do the best they can. We love
Speaker 1: to watch celebrities and sports heroes and hip hop heroes
Speaker 1: on super Bowl commercials and everything else. Selling great even
Speaker 1: then for those people, But just for rock and roll,
Speaker 1: we were supposed to be I don't know what. Everybody
Speaker 1: else in their careers is just trying to do the
Speaker 1: best they can. You're trying to make the money. That's
Speaker 1: why everyone else in the world's career is about, you know,
Speaker 1: and meanwhile we're supposed to not do any of that.
Speaker 1: I always felt it was so silly, like it's so
Speaker 1: hard to succeed in a band. The business is so bad.
Speaker 1: The ability to support yourself and to have success for
Speaker 1: more than a couple of years is so nearly impossible.
Speaker 1: To deny yourself like one part of the possible earnings
Speaker 1: seems so silly to me, like nobody else's thought of
Speaker 1: that way. I remember, at one point, you know, we
Speaker 1: got to radio, had gotten so genre specific in the
Speaker 1: early two thousands that it was very There wasn't really
Speaker 1: any genre that was right for us. We were just
Speaker 1: like a bunch of different stuff. You know, our music
Speaker 1: didn't fit any particular groove, and you know, it was
Speaker 1: getting very hard for us to get played on the radio.
Speaker 1: And we were getting ready to release hard Candy and
Speaker 1: Coke came along our diet home I can't remember which
Speaker 1: one it was and said, Hey, we really like that
Speaker 1: song American Girls. We want to put it on a
Speaker 1: on a commercial and we're going to put that commercial
Speaker 1: on TV all summer long. Wow. And the record comes
Speaker 1: out I think in the end of the summer of
Speaker 1: the fall, and so like your single will be out
Speaker 1: there on TV the entire summer. Its great for you,
Speaker 1: And I thought, we've never done that, but that you know,
Speaker 1: it seems like a really good idea, you know, like
Speaker 1: we should and we did. But there was a lot
Speaker 1: of like backlash about selling out about it. God fuck,
Speaker 1: I like die coke. I drink it all. I used
Speaker 1: to drink it all the time, you know. Uh, so
Speaker 1: it isn't really selling out, it's just it's something I
Speaker 1: actually used. But it kind of got slammed at that moment,
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking, wow, that was what is the
Speaker 1: point of that? Like, what do you all expect us
Speaker 1: to do? We're just everyone's trying to earn a living.
Speaker 1: You're right, only as you can't.
Speaker 4: It's specific. It was specific to the era.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's gone now hopefully, But it
Speaker 2: was also that you're right that it's very specific to
Speaker 2: rock and roll, right like and but there's something about
Speaker 2: that early nineties vibe too, like the grunge era, and
Speaker 2: like you know, all of those all of all of
Speaker 2: you guys were sort of grouped together as this like
Speaker 2: anti establishment in some ways, it was a retro vibe,
Speaker 2: you know, which is so funny now to think about. Like,
Speaker 2: like when August and everything after came out, I remember
Speaker 2: like a lot of the reviews were like, oh, this
Speaker 2: is a throwback to the seventies or you know, this
Speaker 2: is like a and yet now, of course the music
Speaker 2: is so so associated with the nineties, you know, the
Speaker 2: same way that, like our careers are so associated with
Speaker 2: the nineties. How do you feel about the nineties now?
Speaker 8: Like as an era?
Speaker 1: Man, I lived through it. I never really think about
Speaker 1: eras myself, like it always seems like this sort of
Speaker 1: false value bucket we throw things into for grouping of time,
Speaker 1: you know, like and we make judgments about it. You know,
Speaker 1: like when I was growing up, the sixties were cool.
Speaker 1: The seventies were bull right, you know, it's not the
Speaker 1: seventies were kind of great. I don't know, they were weird,
Speaker 1: and more of the vibe of the sixties took place
Speaker 1: in the seventies and took place in the sixties, you know.
Speaker 1: And then you know, I remember, you know, being a
Speaker 1: little older, and the seventies were cool, and now the
Speaker 1: eighties were and so shallow. But I look back on it.
Speaker 1: In the eighties is the birth of college radio and
Speaker 1: the birth of like indie rock and roll, And it
Speaker 1: always seems like just this kind of that seems like
Speaker 1: a way of selling things we get. We take a
Speaker 1: group a block of time, and we lump it together
Speaker 1: and we say, all these people were this way, all
Speaker 1: these people were this way. It's like there's a real
Speaker 1: fascination now with every age group having its own gen or.
Speaker 1: Some people are baby boomers, some people are zoomers, some
Speaker 1: people are are like millennials, and it's like a I
Speaker 1: realized my generation kind of doesn't really have that where.
Speaker 1: I mean, you could call us baby boomers, but baby
Speaker 1: booms has to do with like people who were born
Speaker 1: after World War Two, you know, Like I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: born in the sixties. It's clearly not You call it
Speaker 1: whatever you want. It just didn't seem like that that
Speaker 1: stuff existed. I never even thought of it until what's
Speaker 1: the name's book gen X came out? Generation was that.
Speaker 1: I can't rember who Douglas Copewan wrote that book. It
Speaker 1: all seems kind of I don't know, that's silly to me.
Speaker 1: It's just like I have great memories of the nineties
Speaker 1: and the time I spent, but only in the fact
Speaker 1: that there are years I have to think about which
Speaker 1: records came out when. Okay, well, Desert Life came out
Speaker 1: in ninety nine, so that's the last record from the nineties.
Speaker 1: Then we have the two thousands, which I remember having
Speaker 1: a lot of fun on the millennium. I think we
Speaker 1: threw a big party. But you know, I never really
Speaker 1: thought much about it, except at the time I got
Speaker 1: to be a rock star and there was a lot
Speaker 1: of other cool bands playing great music. I loved touring
Speaker 1: during that period. It just seemed like everywhere I went
Speaker 1: there were other friends in town from wherever. It was
Speaker 1: just like a really magical period. I moved to Hollywood
Speaker 1: in the middle of that period and really loved that
Speaker 1: for a long time too, you know.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean Your August and everything after was released
Speaker 9: on a label called DGC through Geffen Records, and it
Speaker 9: was you were alongside like Nirvana, Teenage Fan Club, Sonic Youth, which,
Speaker 9: like I don't mean to sound like a get off
Speaker 9: my Lawn, but like you would be hard pressed to
Speaker 9: find a more influential time in rock music.
Speaker 3: What are what are some of your favorite.
Speaker 9: Memories of being around those guys and and and just
Speaker 9: being mixed with those other artists.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, we went to Geffen or DGC. There
Speaker 1: were several labels at Gavin David Geffen company was DGC
Speaker 1: and it was kind of the indie arm of the
Speaker 1: company at the time, and it was it was kind
Speaker 1: of a boutique label. And I think we went there
Speaker 1: in the end because we felt like they were really patient.
Speaker 1: They didn't they didn't really care about whether we had
Speaker 1: a hit right away. I mean, I don't think anybody
Speaker 1: at the rec company thought this album was going to be.
Speaker 1: They loved the record, but they didn't naturally think it
Speaker 1: was going to be a huge success. We were hoping
Speaker 1: for a couple hundred thousand records at best that would
Speaker 1: be great. But I thought it was going to be
Speaker 1: kind of like a campfire where we all got to
Speaker 1: hang out with each other, and that was actually the case,
Speaker 1: like we did. I met all those bands back then
Speaker 1: at barbecues over our A and R Guys house. The
Speaker 1: first record actually ended up being on was Maria mckey's record.
Speaker 1: She was on the label too, and I got to
Speaker 1: go sing on her record at the time, and the
Speaker 1: Jayhawks were in her band, so I got to know
Speaker 1: those guys too, and they ended up they and Maria
Speaker 1: do all the background vocals that I don't do on
Speaker 1: August on the first record, either the background vocals are
Speaker 1: me or they're Maria McKee or the Jayhawks, And you know,
Speaker 1: we all you know, I knew Kurt and the guys
Speaker 1: in Nirvana and Sonic Youth, and you know, they were
Speaker 1: all really nice to me. We were all very different musically,
Speaker 1: but that didn't seem to matter. We were all like
Speaker 1: and that tends to not matter among musicians. They don't
Speaker 1: really tend to be about I'm about this kind of music.
Speaker 1: People tend to be about, yes, I'm about this kind
Speaker 1: of music, but musicians just tend to like music. And
Speaker 1: that was my experience then too, is that it was
Speaker 1: just a lot of great indie rock musicians who we
Speaker 1: got to hang out with and it was really cool.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 7: These are kind of the basic questions you probably get
Speaker 7: in a lot of interviews, but they're the ones that
Speaker 7: I love. And it's stuff like who were your influences
Speaker 7: growing up? Like what were the bands that you listened
Speaker 7: to when you were a kid?
Speaker 1: Well, it was a bunch of different kinds of stuff,
Speaker 1: you know. I grew up in Oakland, you know, and
Speaker 1: Oakland was really a big funk in soul Town. So
Speaker 1: early on there was a lot of like earth Wind
Speaker 1: and Fire, the Commodore's p funk. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: the radio station I listened to at the time growing up,
Speaker 1: Kasan played everything. You know, they were really free form radio,
Speaker 1: so you could hear, you know, the earth Wind and Fire,
Speaker 1: followed by George Jones country music, maybe a little bit
Speaker 1: of Miles Davis and then sex Pistols. You know, it
Speaker 1: would they would play anything, so I kind of grew
Speaker 1: up listening to everything. So at the same time as
Speaker 1: I was really into Earth Wind and Fire, I was
Speaker 1: really into Elvis Costello and Joe Jackson and you know,
Speaker 1: all the kind of like new wave and early punk stuff.
Speaker 1: It was kind of like a real melting pot for
Speaker 1: me listening musically, you know. I certainly loved a lot
Speaker 1: of bands like Well the Band. I don't know that
Speaker 1: Dylan was the thing early on, but I got really
Speaker 1: into going through like the Rolling Stone Record Guide and
Speaker 1: looking for five Star records and then buying them to
Speaker 1: teach myself about music.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: I remember when I first bought it, the pictures in
Speaker 1: there were all five Star records, So I remember getting
Speaker 1: Al Green's Let's Stay Together because it was a picture
Speaker 1: in there, and being floored by that and this Lightton
Speaker 1: Hopkins record, you know, and I was just really into
Speaker 1: like trying to educate myself. At one point I went
Speaker 1: one by one and bought all the Rolling Stones records,
Speaker 1: like at the US shop in Berkeley and listened to
Speaker 1: them from the beginning, you know, England's newest hit makers,
Speaker 1: all the way up through I guess Tattoo you came up,
Speaker 1: came out my senior year in high school. You know,
Speaker 1: I just kind of was really obsessed with music and
Speaker 1: obsessed with like learning all I could about it. I
Speaker 1: loved El Fitzgerald.
Speaker 2: Did you have a particular moment, I mean, was it
Speaker 2: with Connen Crozer? Does it predate that where you feel
Speaker 2: like you found your voice as a musician as a songwriter.
Speaker 1: Well, it started when I wrote songs, because before that,
Speaker 1: you know, I like to sing, and I really loved music.
Speaker 1: I was pretty obsessed with it, but I didn't know
Speaker 1: where to go with that. I mean, I guess you
Speaker 1: could go be in musicals, but that wasn't really the
Speaker 1: center of our culture anymore. It didn't seem like and
Speaker 1: I didn't really like, you know, I acted when I
Speaker 1: was younger. I was a young conservatory at ACT in
Speaker 1: San Francisco, but I didn't really love it. I like performing,
Speaker 1: but it just wasn't me. And when I was a
Speaker 1: freshman in college, I wrote my first song and that
Speaker 1: sort of changed everything.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 1: It was like a bell or like a light switch
Speaker 1: going off in my head, you know, like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: a songwriter. And that was like, I mean the hardest
Speaker 1: thing about shifting from childhood to adulthood is how you
Speaker 1: identify yourself. You know, we're kids. We do things that
Speaker 1: we're told to do and then we go around, but
Speaker 1: as far as accomplishing anything, it's mostly stuff that people
Speaker 1: tell us to do. You know, you guys worked really young,
Speaker 1: so it's different for you. But you know, you got
Speaker 1: your homework and you'd like to meet girls, and those
Speaker 1: are kind of the two things of life. And you
Speaker 1: start to get into college and into being an adult,
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, what's going to happen with the
Speaker 1: rest of my life when it's choices that I get
Speaker 1: to make for mysel for myself, And that's a pretty
Speaker 1: confusing moment. And I remember like being in I think
Speaker 1: a chemistry class, and you know, my sister was still
Speaker 1: at home. My mother was off in medical school, so
Speaker 1: my sister was home alone with my dad. She was
Speaker 1: sixteen or fifteen, and it's a that's a pretty you know,
Speaker 1: difficult time in a girl's life. Things are changing, and
Speaker 1: you know, she was struggling with me being gone and
Speaker 1: my mom being gone. And I wrote this song. I
Speaker 1: started humming to myself in class, and I hummed this
Speaker 1: melody and I wrote these lyrics to it, songs called
Speaker 1: good Morning, Little Sister. I got out of class and
Speaker 1: I had this thing written, and I'm like, well, I
Speaker 1: went back to my dorm and there was a like
Speaker 1: a lounge across the hall from my room, my freshman dorm,
Speaker 1: and there was a piano in there, and I went
Speaker 1: in there. I locked the door, and I sat down
Speaker 1: at the piano and I, I can't really play piano,
Speaker 1: but I know how to make a major on a
Speaker 1: minor chord, So I like hummed the song to myself
Speaker 1: and I poked at the piano until i'd find a
Speaker 1: note that I was singing, and then I would try
Speaker 1: and figure out a chord that goes with that. It
Speaker 1: took me the whole rest of the day, like three
Speaker 1: or four hours. The song would take fifteen minutes. Now
Speaker 1: it's really simple. But at the end of it, I'd
Speaker 1: written a song, you know, and it was literally like
Speaker 1: a light bulb going off my head and I thought, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a songwriter. And I knew what I was before
Speaker 1: any of my friends did. Like I mean, I fell
Speaker 1: behind again when we all got out of there and
Speaker 1: started getting jobs, because it's very hard to get a
Speaker 1: job as a songwriter. But you know, it changed everything
Speaker 1: in my life that day, Like that moment was the
Speaker 1: biggest defining moment in my life because before that, I
Speaker 1: was a kid, and then I was a songwriter, and
Speaker 1: I knew that I knew what I was, what I
Speaker 1: was going to do with my life. I didn't know
Speaker 1: how I was going to do it, but I knew
Speaker 1: who I was and what I was and it was
Speaker 1: a very weird feeling, especially as it became clear how
Speaker 1: hard that was going to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say, because I mean, writing
Speaker 2: is one thing, sharing it with the world and getting
Speaker 2: it out there is such a struggle too.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, getting anyone to hear it, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I mean I was. I started school at UC Davis,
Speaker 1: and I was there for my first couple of years,
Speaker 1: and then I transferred down to Berkeley because all I
Speaker 1: was doing was writing songs, and I realized, if I
Speaker 1: really want to do this, I have to be back
Speaker 1: in the Bay Area. I had a lot of years
Speaker 1: after that of trying to figure out how to get
Speaker 1: anyone to hear my music. But the start was moving
Speaker 1: back to the Bay Area. But I spent you know,
Speaker 1: almost ten years in the clubs, you know, before anything happened.
Speaker 1: Really I was. I was eighteen when I wrote my
Speaker 1: first song. I was twenty seven the first time anyone
Speaker 1: from any record company came to see a band that
Speaker 1: was in Wow twenty eight when we got signed. I
Speaker 1: was twenty nine when the first record came out. So
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't like I mean, I had put
Speaker 1: in years in bands, in the clubs and the barrier,
Speaker 1: you know, which is maybe great because I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm a eight to no or whatever, like I don't
Speaker 1: have anything I regret that I put out in our career, Whereas,
Speaker 1: like you know, maybe I wouldn't feel the same if
Speaker 1: I had been releasing stuff earlier, you know, but when
Speaker 1: I wasn't as ready, I guess.
Speaker 7: So I have a question for you, because I was
Speaker 7: obsessed with television the way it sounds like you were
Speaker 7: obsessed with music. So I found a lot of my
Speaker 7: music through what i'd watch on TV. And I remember
Speaker 7: I'd heard of you from writer obviously, but the first
Speaker 7: time I really saw you was your appearance on Saturday
Speaker 7: Night Live.
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you're going to talk about that. I
Speaker 3: remember that so well.
Speaker 7: I do too, and you guys just killed it. And
Speaker 7: I I remember right then watching that going, oh, I
Speaker 7: have to get this album, like I have to find
Speaker 7: this band. Did you notice a shift in either was
Speaker 7: it record sales, popularity, whatever due to that appearance on SNL.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, it made our career. Yeah, without a doubt.
Speaker 1: We and I have to give them props for this too,
Speaker 1: because they booked us to play that show before we
Speaker 1: were anything. Our record was, as I remember, at two
Speaker 1: hundred and thirteen on the charts. The night we played
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live, we weren't even in the top two hundred.
Speaker 1: Marcy Klein saw us open for Cracker at Irving Plaza
Speaker 1: and Cracker we had a great show, and Cracker also
Speaker 1: we'd have no career without them, pushed us back on
Speaker 1: stage for an encore. Wow, you know as an opening band,
Speaker 1: you know, which doesn't happen. And she booked us right
Speaker 1: after that, or like started talking to us about booking
Speaker 1: us because there were two shows. Letterman also was offering
Speaker 1: us slots at the time, and so was Saturday Night Live.
Speaker 1: And we went through a bunch of negotiation on what
Speaker 1: we would play and who's going to play with us,
Speaker 1: And it took a while and ended up Saturday Night
Speaker 1: Live kind of gave us what we wanted first. But
Speaker 1: when we played that show, we weren't even in the
Speaker 1: top two hundred and it literally, and I know joke
Speaker 1: about this, the record jumped forty spots a week for
Speaker 1: five or six weeks, so we landed at number two,
Speaker 1: and we were at two for the next couple of years.
Speaker 1: We never went to number one, but yeah, it was
Speaker 1: entirely due to Saturday Night Live. And then a few
Speaker 1: months later that was like the first week of January
Speaker 1: of ninety four, and we played it. Mister Jones was
Speaker 1: released on MTV the week between Christmas and New Year's
Speaker 1: that year, which you don't release things during that period,
Speaker 1: nobody does because there's no charts, Yeah, and so people
Speaker 1: avoid it, and we thought, well, what if we put
Speaker 1: the single out then instead, like, with nothing else going
Speaker 1: to MTV that week except our song, maybe they'll play
Speaker 1: it a bunch mostly one hundred and twenty minutes the
Speaker 1: first time it played. But you know, so my point
Speaker 1: is like, it's not like mister Jones was a big
Speaker 1: hit or something. Right, We played Saturday and Live and
Speaker 1: we played round here first, and that kind of made
Speaker 1: our career, you know that. Literally it was like two thirteen, one,
Speaker 1: seventy one, thirty something, ninety something, fifty something, sixteen thirteen,
Speaker 1: six two, and then we spent a couple of years
Speaker 1: at number two after that.
Speaker 3: That is just insane.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't even notice it though, I mean, because
Speaker 1: it was just record sales. It wasn't doing anything for us.
Speaker 1: We played our first headline shows in clubs in the
Speaker 1: Northeast the weeks after Saturday Night Live. Then we went
Speaker 1: back to opening for Cracker, and then we were getting
Speaker 1: ready to go play European tour, and we played Letterman
Speaker 1: right before we left. Uh, and while we were playing Letterman,
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone had called that day. I think, unless I'm
Speaker 1: pushing all these things together, it's been a long time.
Speaker 1: My memory is that my managers came to me Letterman
Speaker 1: show and said, Uh, Rolling Stone wants to put you
Speaker 1: on the cover. You're going to Europe next week. They're
Speaker 1: going to send David Wilde to write the piece on
Speaker 1: you and Mark Selliger to take the pictures, and they're
Speaker 1: going to meet you in Paris, you know, And then
Speaker 1: we went to Europe.
Speaker 9: All those years of buying Rolling Stone and studying it
Speaker 9: and researching it and now they're asking you to be
Speaker 9: on the cover and they're going to write an article
Speaker 9: about you.
Speaker 1: And my first response was because he asked me about it,
Speaker 1: and I said, okay, can I think about it? He
Speaker 1: looked at me. I'm like, okay, no, I'm sorry. Of course, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's fine, but like, but legitimately I was scared about it.
Speaker 1: I mean I had two minds of it as a
Speaker 1: rock musician, of course, or as anyone really at that
Speaker 1: by that time, because it wasn't really a music magazine anymore.
Speaker 1: By that you have to say yes to being on
Speaker 1: the cover Rolling Stone because they there's no point to
Speaker 1: your career otherwise it's going to make you huge, you know.
Speaker 1: But all I could think of was, you know, it's
Speaker 1: hard to portray it nowadays because we don't really have
Speaker 1: news stands anymore. But they used to be on every
Speaker 1: corner in every major city and there'd be these racks
Speaker 1: and Rolling Stone would be like, you know, there'd be
Speaker 1: twenty of them up there and you could see and
Speaker 1: whoever's on the cover, it's like your face is on
Speaker 1: every street corner in America. And I was thinking about
Speaker 1: what that would be like and it seemed scary to me.
Speaker 1: It seemed like everyone will be looking at me. How
Speaker 1: this is different from just like playing a club, you know.
Speaker 1: I was nervous about that.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: I was also right about that it was going to
Speaker 1: be very strange, and it was strange for me. But
Speaker 1: you can't say no to that. It'd be stupid, you know. Otherwise,
Speaker 1: why try to have a career that lasts, you know.
Speaker 9: So the time that you were on Saturday Night Live,
Speaker 9: the cast was Chris Farley, Norm MacDonald, Adam Sandler, David Spade,
Speaker 9: just some of the most incredible comedians of all time.
Speaker 3: What do you remember most about that night?
Speaker 1: Uh, it's a mixed bag. I mean, the cast was great.
Speaker 1: They're just really nice people, all of them. I really enjoyed.
Speaker 1: Sarah Silverman and Jennie Garoppolo were on it too right then,
Speaker 1: but they were struggling a lot. They were really weren't
Speaker 1: very good to women back then, and like I remember
Speaker 1: hanging out at the Paramount later that night and the
Speaker 1: two of them were just really bummed out about like
Speaker 1: it's hard to get their stuff on the show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you could make dick jokes, but you couldn't make Sarah
Speaker 1: Silverman jokes, you know what I mean, Like she was
Speaker 1: much more risque, and they really struggled with getting stuff
Speaker 1: on it. But that's not the cast fault, that's the
Speaker 1: right And we struggled a lot that week. We had
Speaker 1: made a lot of agreements with Saturday Night Live about
Speaker 1: what we were going to play, about playing the entire songs,
Speaker 1: and they kind of went back on everything. Right, we
Speaker 1: got there and changed everything we'd agreed on, and we
Speaker 1: fought about it all week. We eventually, in the end
Speaker 1: had to threaten to leave that afternoon.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember hearing about this. It was because they
Speaker 4: didn't want you to play round here?
Speaker 6: Was that what?
Speaker 1: They didn't want us to play it first, even though
Speaker 1: that was the agreement, and I was very set on
Speaker 1: that being the first song that the world heard from us,
Speaker 1: you know, I thought it was the most important song.
Speaker 1: And they wanted us to edit the songs down, which
Speaker 1: we had agreed not to do because I didn't like
Speaker 1: editing songs. And I mean, in the end, actually having
Speaker 1: allowed us to play around Here and as well as
Speaker 1: it went, they came back later on and asked me,
Speaker 1: can you please cut down mister Jones right before we
Speaker 1: were going to go play it, and so I did.
Speaker 1: I think I think I cut the last verset, the
Speaker 1: last double chorus in half. I don't remember exactly, but
Speaker 1: I think I did think it was only fair to
Speaker 1: do that. But it was a rough week because they
Speaker 1: kept threatening out. You know, they're a big the company, NBC.
Speaker 1: It's big, and that's the biggest show for bands, and
Speaker 1: you know, they don't really have much of a hesitation
Speaker 1: about bullying you.
Speaker 7: And yeah, you're just lucky to be here, kid kind
Speaker 7: of thing.
Speaker 1: Basically we were, but I can be very stubborn, and
Speaker 1: we had a deal and we didn't. I mean, they've
Speaker 1: never had us back, let's put it that way. But
Speaker 1: the show made our career, and without a doubt, it
Speaker 1: absolutely made our career, you know, like I think it.
Speaker 1: I just remember very clearly the influence that had on
Speaker 1: record sales in the month and a half after that.
Speaker 1: You know, we went to play Letterman right before we
Speaker 1: played Saturday Live and we played round Here again, and that,
Speaker 1: to me is probably still our best ever television performance,
Speaker 1: that Letterman performance. But we were great on Saturday Night Live.
Speaker 1: We crushed it. Yeah, and I couldn't be more thankful
Speaker 1: to them about the effect they had on our career.
Speaker 1: While my memories of it are pretty because I would
Speaker 1: have loved to enjoy Saturday Night Live too, but it
Speaker 1: was it's a rough week, you know. It was I'm
Speaker 1: just this like young nobody, you know, and I I
Speaker 1: don't know how to deal with a network. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: like Lauren Michael's and the and I'm very scared I'm
Speaker 1: ruining our career. But I was also very determined to
Speaker 1: get our career off to the right start.
Speaker 2: Well, I think a big part of your staying power
Speaker 2: has been has been obviously the live shows and your
Speaker 2: approach to live shows in particular. I mean I talked
Speaker 2: about it when we talked about mentioning Counting Crows on
Speaker 2: en Boy Meets World. I talked about, like, how my fandom,
Speaker 2: you know, it was like I like the first album whatever.
Speaker 2: But once I started seeing you guys.
Speaker 4: Live, what it was for me was, Oh, every night's different.
Speaker 8: You know that that that that you allow improvisation or
Speaker 8: you you seek improvisation every night, and then you have
Speaker 8: this inner textuality with other songs riffing on you know,
Speaker 8: used to be sort of humor now at Springsteen, you know,
Speaker 8: but you were always you know, where did that come from?
Speaker 1: I think that people I saw growing up were that way.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, Ram would play obscure Velvet
Speaker 1: Underground songs. Well obscure then because no Velvet Underground kind
Speaker 1: of disappeared. Now there are you know, icons, but at
Speaker 1: that point they were in the eighties, they were kind
Speaker 1: of a forgotten band, you know. And I got introduced
Speaker 1: to all this music by them, by like the big
Speaker 1: star songs they played. And you know, when I saw
Speaker 1: I had a lot of you know, I saw Van
Speaker 1: Marrison a few times when I was a kid. He
Speaker 1: clearly improvised a lot on stage. I saw Miles Davies,
Speaker 1: he did the same thing.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 1: It was a lot of music that I really liked
Speaker 1: that did that. But you know, it's also part of
Speaker 1: what in our minds for a lot of years, we
Speaker 1: associated seeing the bands we loved with music being different
Speaker 1: from the records, because that's what live music was. It
Speaker 1: wasn't until I think, really MTV came along that we
Speaker 1: associated seeing that people perform and hearing the record. You know,
Speaker 1: I mean, you had Elvis movies before that kind of
Speaker 1: and you know, Beatles movies but you didn't really think
Speaker 1: of it that way, like when you thought about going
Speaker 1: to a concert, it was going to be different and
Speaker 1: you look forward to that, you know. But the MTV
Speaker 1: kind of trained us in a lot of ways to
Speaker 1: think we could watch the band and it would be
Speaker 1: exactly the same as we were listening. And that's nothing
Speaker 1: wrong with that. There are people who do it really well.
Speaker 1: And I guess there was TV too, now that I
Speaker 1: think about it, At Sullivan and most people you were
Speaker 1: lip syncing, So it did exist before MTV, but that
Speaker 1: was on TV, you know. I don't know. Maybe my
Speaker 1: theory doesn't really work. I like it. It's an interesting one,
Speaker 1: damn it. The mistake I made right now was calling
Speaker 1: myself on that.
Speaker 4: You should have just let it out.
Speaker 1: Person who should point out you're wrong is yourself. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I grew up thinking that's what music was,
Speaker 1: you know, and I really liked that, and so when
Speaker 1: I started to play music, it wasn't like it actually
Speaker 1: wasn't right when I started to play music. The very
Speaker 1: first gig of our first tour, we drove up the tour.
Speaker 1: We were going to be opening for Suade, and the
Speaker 1: middle band was the Cranberry's. They ended up blowing up
Speaker 1: midway through that tour, but Swade was the headliner and
Speaker 1: we were the third band. And the first gig we
Speaker 1: played was that the Town Pump in Vancouver, and I
Speaker 1: think it was just Cranberry's that night, and we drove
Speaker 1: all the way up from Berkeley, twenty four hour drive
Speaker 1: up from Berkeley, and that afternoon before the show, we
Speaker 1: did sound check and then we went a few of
Speaker 1: us went over to the Lake Victoria and we were
Speaker 1: sort of looking at the shores of the lake. It
Speaker 1: was pretty and we were just trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what to do before the show. And I turned to
Speaker 1: like the guys who were there in the band. I
Speaker 1: think it was Charlie and I don't remember who else
Speaker 1: was there, Dan maybe, and I'm like, hey, when we
Speaker 1: get done with the solo, the guitar solo and mister Jones,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go like this and everybody come down and
Speaker 1: they said why, I'm like, I don't know, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do something. What are you gonna do? I don't know,
Speaker 1: Just follow me. It's gonna be cool, you know, I'll try,
Speaker 1: you know, And it was just like they all looked
Speaker 1: at me like okay, well all right, let's try it.
Speaker 1: And then we did it that night and it was great,
Speaker 1: and like, you know, we're the opening of three bands,
Speaker 1: and we start playing these shows where we're like taking
Speaker 1: the songs apart in the middle. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 1: you only have a half hour set, so you can
Speaker 1: only play a few songs. But we started doing these
Speaker 1: ten minute versions of like Ranking in a thirty minute
Speaker 1: set or around here. Later. I don't remember how soon
Speaker 1: we started doing around here, because I know it started
Speaker 1: with Ranking, you know, and people sat up and took notice,
Speaker 1: you know, and people got, oh, this is really cool,
Speaker 1: you know, because especially the people that are seeing you
Speaker 1: at that point either have sought you out because they
Speaker 1: have the record and they're really interested, or they're just
Speaker 1: like indie music fans because they're there ce Suaye, you know,
Speaker 1: and they're in a club, you know. And nobody's complained
Speaker 1: about it until the next summer when we were huge,
Speaker 1: and the fans that came in were like, play mister Jones,
Speaker 1: that's all, and.
Speaker 4: Make it sound exactly the same album tricks, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, I still think we get a lot of
Speaker 1: complaints still, I mean not a lot, but like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'll be looking through the the mentions and the stuff
Speaker 1: on Instagram after shows and they'll there'll be someone every
Speaker 1: once in a while who's like, they just ruined song
Speaker 1: after songs tonight. How are we supposed to sing along
Speaker 1: if he doesn't even know how the song goes? First
Speaker 1: thought is, don't worry about singing along. I can do
Speaker 1: it better than you, right, But you know, I understand
Speaker 1: enjoying singing along at shows. You know, when I go
Speaker 1: when I go to see Dashboard Confessional, my friend Chris's band,
Speaker 1: the entire audience sings along the whole time and it's awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I my songs.
Speaker 1: Aren't as They're not like, I don't know why they're
Speaker 1: They're just different in that Well maybe it's just that
Speaker 1: I'm screwing them up. It could be that too.
Speaker 2: When the ground, I mean, I think that you know
Speaker 2: that that live quality that's sort of like, oh, every
Speaker 2: night is going to be a little different where we
Speaker 2: don't know, you're you're having an experience, you're discovering the
Speaker 2: song live. That I mean, that was what always attracted
Speaker 2: me to you guys, you know, and I think that, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're going to lose some people.
Speaker 4: But I think, you know, it's it's worked out. You know,
Speaker 4: you guys are still here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think you're right, and it's like
Speaker 1: something is working because it's thirty years on and plenty
Speaker 1: of people came to shows this summer. You know, we
Speaker 1: played sixty shows this summer and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: people there.
Speaker 9: We were in the same places you once. Yeah, we
Speaker 9: were in Raleigh, North Carolina the same night you guys
Speaker 9: were in Raleigh, and we found out you were doing
Speaker 9: a show walking distance from where we were, and we
Speaker 9: tried to get in at the last second and not
Speaker 9: a ticket to be found.
Speaker 3: I couldn't get couldn't get in.
Speaker 1: Oh, you were at the convention. Yeah, yeah, I remember
Speaker 1: that day because Chris went over to the convention because
Speaker 1: he's seriously geeky too, and Kaba went over to the
Speaker 1: convention to sort of geek out with people, you know,
Speaker 1: Star Wars, Star Trek. Really, he's really into that. Like
Speaker 1: last was it last year? I think it was last year.
Speaker 1: Chris called me and he said, I'm coming up to
Speaker 1: New York for a weekend. I'm doing this thing. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you want to go with us. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, what is it. He goes, well, it's a
Speaker 1: little embarrassing, but you know, you know me, And I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: what is it? He goes, We're going to a podcast.
Speaker 1: We're going to a Star Trek podcast. Really, all right,
Speaker 1: I'll come with you him and his brother and we
Speaker 1: all went. It was this podcast called the Greatest Generation
Speaker 1: and they go every podcast they go through a different
Speaker 1: episode starting I don't think they did the original Star Trek.
Speaker 1: I think they started with the Next Generation and they're
Speaker 1: going theoretically going through all the shows, but they have
Speaker 1: these live ones where they just do the movies. Okay,
Speaker 1: So we went to one of the live ones at
Speaker 1: the Bell what's that place in the Bellhouse in Brooklyn,
Speaker 1: and we saw we went to hang out with these
Speaker 1: We went and talked to the guys and hang out
Speaker 1: with them and had a few beers, and then they
Speaker 1: did their podcast on Star Trek four, which was my
Speaker 1: favorite of the old Star Trek movies. Great movie The
Speaker 1: Whales and the twentieth Century San Francisco.
Speaker 6: Yep, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, great movie. So they did this hysterical podcast
Speaker 1: on it. Me and Chris went to it with his
Speaker 1: brother and it was awesome and I you know, so yeah.
Speaker 1: I remember that day because Chris there was like a
Speaker 1: tunnel that connected actually through the basement to the convention
Speaker 1: to our gig, and they went to it.
Speaker 9: We just crashed it.
Speaker 7: We would have crashed it if we could.
Speaker 1: We tried.
Speaker 9: We walked by, we stood outside for a little bit,
Speaker 9: listened to a little bit of the music, and left.
Speaker 3: We tried to get in, but we just couldn't.
Speaker 1: We don't have each other's numbers anymore.
Speaker 4: No, I texted.
Speaker 2: I texted Emmy because I'm still in touch with Emmy,
Speaker 2: So I texted him and he was like, let me try,
Speaker 2: let me try.
Speaker 8: But then it was like five minutes before the show
Speaker 8: was like.
Speaker 1: Emberdn't come to Ah. I wish I'd known. I would
Speaker 1: have absolutely worked it out to get you guys in.
Speaker 1: That's a shame.
Speaker 3: I have another industry question for you.
Speaker 9: The biggest story this month has been the surprising resurgence
Speaker 9: of Creed from the Texas Rangers championing them through the
Speaker 9: World Series and now they've reunited for a tour and
Speaker 9: it seems like they have like the perfect amount of
Speaker 9: camp and nostalgia going into the next year.
Speaker 3: So my question for you is creep get a bad rap?
Speaker 1: Well, I think yeah, I mean, there's no such thing
Speaker 1: as anything but that. Look, I mean, we're just it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter whether you're a big Creed fan or not.
Speaker 1: Somebody is and they enjoy the music, you know, like
Speaker 1: they enjoy the music. And people like music because they
Speaker 1: like music, you know, and they should be able to
Speaker 1: enjoy that music. It's really dumb to me this thing
Speaker 1: we do where our you know, music's different from other
Speaker 1: art forms that we literally wear it on our chests, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, although this is a fresh pinch shirt, so
Speaker 1: maybe it's actually maybe it's actually a TV show show.
Speaker 3: You correct yourself way too much at them.
Speaker 7: Just go with it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like we define ourselves by the
Speaker 1: music we like in ways we don't with other art forms.
Speaker 7: And and.
Speaker 1: And then we put down other people for the music
Speaker 1: they like. And it just seems so silly to me.
Speaker 1: It's just whether their music is great or not, whether
Speaker 1: the band is like howe, we have to stratify who's
Speaker 1: the best. There's still some guy who was sitting at
Speaker 1: home in his bedroom writing these songs that meant something
Speaker 1: to him, right, and he chose to express himself in
Speaker 1: that way, and so he did, and the way the media,
Speaker 1: like Lynch mobs certain bands and then everybody else jumps
Speaker 1: on it too. I watched this documentary a little while
Speaker 1: ago about the Begs, you know, and.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 1: So good, and you know, there there were such a
Speaker 1: huge influential band, meshing different kinds of music and making
Speaker 1: this incredible like music out of it. The disco music
Speaker 1: was so good and and then that became this thing
Speaker 1: that divided people, and you realize, like they One of
Speaker 1: the great things in that movie was they did an
Speaker 1: interview with one of the ushers at Kimiski Park where
Speaker 1: they had to burn the disco record celebration, and that
Speaker 1: people are bringing in records that he's like, this isn't
Speaker 1: a disco record, this is a soul It's like Stevie Wonder,
Speaker 1: you know, it's and he realized that, Oll, it's not
Speaker 1: really just about disco. It's about black meat music and
Speaker 1: gay music and everything that was sort of like not
Speaker 1: cool for white guys in middle of I don't know what,
Speaker 1: but the Beg's Meanwhile, we're off on the biggest tour
Speaker 1: in the world. They get home and they realize no
Speaker 1: one nots to ever hear anything from you again. You know,
Speaker 1: like you're You've gone from being the biggest band bar
Speaker 1: none in the world to anathema, like no one even
Speaker 1: wants to like admit to liking you ever again, and
Speaker 1: that's kind of the end of their career, which sucks.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's so stupid, and it's just it has
Speaker 1: to do a lot with what radio does, which is
Speaker 1: play it until you're sick of it. And that's part
Speaker 1: of what happens. You know, radio plays till you are
Speaker 1: sick of it, and you have no control over that.
Speaker 1: The best possible situation is that they play you, and
Speaker 1: the worst possible situation is they play you too much,
Speaker 1: and then.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: But I was sort of I'd forgotten about all that
Speaker 1: when it happened, and it was appalling to watch it
Speaker 1: again and see what a lynch mob it was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and uh, how to disupport that.
Speaker 7: Is because we were a television show. We hear from
Speaker 7: our fans all the time. We grew up with you.
Speaker 7: It's super important to us and it meant something in
Speaker 7: our childhood, so very briefly bringing it to television, did
Speaker 7: you have a Boy Meets World in your life. Was
Speaker 7: there a show you grew up watching that was really
Speaker 7: important to you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there were lots. I mean the ones
Speaker 1: that stick out the most in my mind were like
Speaker 1: All in the Family when I was a kid, it
Speaker 1: was really and the Jeffersons, they were really like, you know,
Speaker 1: good Time, those those sitcoms, the Norman Lear Ones, Mary
Speaker 1: Tyler Moore Show, you know, those were so brilliant and
Speaker 1: so like culture changing to me at the time. And
Speaker 1: then soon after that, I got really obsessed with Hill
Speaker 1: Street Blues, you know, and and the beginning of his shows,
Speaker 1: which are so many good shows that Stephen Boschko made,
Speaker 1: and such a huge influence on everything after that too,
Speaker 1: you know, like television changes massively because of those shows
Speaker 1: and specifically Hill Street Blues.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: And then but the other thing that really hit me
Speaker 1: after that was Ken Burns. I still think in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways is my favorite filmmaker, you know, and
Speaker 1: that he made I guess they're movies, but they were
Speaker 1: all made for TV. You know, the Statue of Liberty,
Speaker 1: one that features Carolyn Fourchet, who was the poet I
Speaker 1: was reading when I wrote my first song and had
Speaker 1: a huge influence you know, that Civil War documentary. Later on,
Speaker 1: the Jazz and the Baseball ones, which were so powerful
Speaker 1: to me, you know, and he just continued making them
Speaker 1: for years and years still to this day. Their brilliant work.
Speaker 1: The Vietnam one is incredible, Pat too. Yeah, the Prohibition
Speaker 1: one's really good. It's a little briefer, but it's really good.
Speaker 1: Jack Johnson one had a big effect on me because
Speaker 1: it becomes part of the beginning of Palisades Park, which
Speaker 1: is about Jack Johnson's fight with Jim Jeffreys in Reno
Speaker 1: in whatever that was nineteen hundred and nineteen ten, you know,
Speaker 1: like that's the beginning of Palisades Park. Yeah, those shows
Speaker 1: were really really big to me. You know, it changes
Speaker 1: weirdly when we go on tour because then I just
Speaker 1: for a few years, it's almost impossible to see anything.
Speaker 1: Until I made friends who gave me, Like Nev Campbell,
Speaker 1: I told her I really wanted to see Party of
Speaker 1: Five because I hadn't seen it and I heard it
Speaker 1: was really great, and she got me the She had
Speaker 1: the studio print all of them up on VHS tapes
Speaker 1: and gave me like three boxes of podcast and they
Speaker 1: did the same thing for me for the X Files
Speaker 1: and we would watch them in the back of the
Speaker 1: bus on tour.
Speaker 3: You know, that's amazing.
Speaker 9: I wonder if she had to pay like five hundred
Speaker 9: dollars to get me, had to pay at the end
Speaker 9: of the season, Adam. Believe it or not, we would
Speaker 9: work on the show all season, and then at the
Speaker 9: end of the season, they would say, for the lolow
Speaker 9: price of like three hundred and eighty dollars, you can
Speaker 9: have a copy of each episode you did on these
Speaker 9: VHS tapes. And we would pay the money and we'd
Speaker 9: get them on VHS.
Speaker 1: That's not that they really get you, coming and gone.
Speaker 1: I mean right, that's how they get you.
Speaker 4: That's how they get you.
Speaker 9: Disney.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, it's like those studios. It's like there's so
Speaker 1: much You realize that too when you're in a band.
Speaker 1: Once you start working with a movie or a TV show,
Speaker 1: there's just so much more money involved and therefore so
Speaker 1: many more executives, and therefore it cost them less to
Speaker 1: just sick a lawyer at you for something. It's just
Speaker 1: like it ends up always being I love having my
Speaker 1: music in movies and on TV, but it's always a
Speaker 1: bit of a chore. And a headache because you got
Speaker 1: to defend yourself the whole way through it.
Speaker 9: Yep, that's exactly right. My last question for you, you
Speaker 9: guys have been on the road NonStop lately. What can
Speaker 9: fans expect from Counting Crows in the future. And do you,
Speaker 9: you know, need anybody to jump on stage with you
Speaker 9: like I did thirty years ago and.
Speaker 3: Then just you know, dance on stage.
Speaker 1: We always need that. We haven't done it much in
Speaker 1: a while, just with the other bands, but yeah, we
Speaker 1: used to do that with hanging around and everybody.
Speaker 3: We all jumped up, We all jumped up there.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 1: That's kind of based on the fact that we had
Speaker 1: all our friends in the studio clapping on that song.
Speaker 1: Originally it was everybody at the house recording on it,
Speaker 1: I mean clapping when we did the song. Uh, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm writing a few songs. I was just working last
Speaker 1: night to get the second half of the suite done.
Speaker 1: I think hopefully we'll get recording later this year. And
Speaker 1: then we were just talking the last couple of days
Speaker 1: about going out this coming summer and whether to do
Speaker 1: it or not and how to do it, and I mean,
Speaker 1: ablell just keep doing what we're doing. I guess it
Speaker 1: seems to be working and I don't really have any
Speaker 1: other employment. Surprised how little there is out there for
Speaker 1: aging rock and rollers.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 9: Well, we would love to make it out to a
Speaker 9: show and and we'll invite Will along this time.
Speaker 7: Will, I'd like to come again.
Speaker 1: Writer.
Speaker 7: Writer especially uh brought your band into my life. I
Speaker 7: tried to reciprocate with my my growing up band, which
Speaker 7: is Who's Gerdo. I've tried over and over. So I'm
Speaker 7: trying to get more Bob Mulled into their lives as
Speaker 7: much as I can. It's amazing, it's amazing. So but
Speaker 7: they then Writer introduced me to Counting Crows and it's
Speaker 7: been Uh. It was a great, great addition to my
Speaker 7: my musical career.
Speaker 1: So I loved it.
Speaker 7: One more one more, very very very very brief thing.
Speaker 7: Writer used to tell me back in the day, you
Speaker 7: made a hell of a set of ribs using was
Speaker 7: it Doctor Pecker?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 7: Yeah, So I'm gonna need that recipe at some point.
Speaker 1: I don't. I haven't done the Dr Pepper part of
Speaker 1: the recipe in a long time. It's really good, though,
Speaker 1: because the idea was that since you don't have a smoker.
Speaker 1: You boil it a bit before you do the the grill.
Speaker 1: I have been working on my ribs over the years,
Speaker 1: tried coming up with an oven version, and I've been
Speaker 1: I have not re included the doctor pepper part yet.
Speaker 1: I've just been cooking it in the oven. But I
Speaker 1: will say I got that recipe from Gibby Haynes of
Speaker 1: the Butthole. Surfers used to have barbecues on sunset on
Speaker 1: Sundays in front of the Viper Room when I was
Speaker 1: martining there, and so Gibby taught me to make the
Speaker 1: doctor Pepper ribs. We did it on Sunset Boulevard in
Speaker 1: front of the Viper Room.
Speaker 4: That's the only time I've ever had crawfish was at here.
Speaker 1: Please.
Speaker 4: You had to crawfish boil once, and I remember that.
Speaker 4: I have done Mart's cracking the heads. Oh yeah, I
Speaker 4: tried it. I'll never do it again.
Speaker 7: I want the ribs. I want the rib recipe. Yeah
Speaker 7: that's awesome.
Speaker 1: Well, Adam, I'll figure out how to do it.
Speaker 9: Thank you so much for taking time out of your
Speaker 9: day and joining us. And you know it goes without
Speaker 9: saying how important you were in writer's life. Throughout the nineties,
Speaker 9: but also just to all of us, and it's an
Speaker 9: honor to have gone through the nineties right alongside you.
Speaker 9: We all celebrated our thirtieth anniversary this year, you with
Speaker 9: August and everything after in us with Boy Meets World.
Speaker 9: And it's really nice that we're both still here and
Speaker 9: able to talk about the the impact that we had
Speaker 9: on people and still doing what we love to do.
Speaker 3: So thank you for being here with us.
Speaker 1: It's so nice to see you guys again. I have
Speaker 1: to say, it's really great to see all of you.
Speaker 1: Thank pleasure.
Speaker 3: It was really nice seeing you. Hopefully we'll see you soon.
Speaker 1: Thanks you guys.
Speaker 3: Thanks Adam, Bye bye bye.
Speaker 1: Wow. So cool. Such a nice guy.
Speaker 3: What a great dude.
Speaker 4: Yeah, always has been the nicest guy.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's so funny when somebody is like, you know,
Speaker 2: writing songs for their tortured constantly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but then you actually talked to him.
Speaker 7: He's pretty happy, pretty nice.
Speaker 4: I'm sure he has his down moments, but those are
Speaker 4: the moments that he writes the songs about. But you know,
Speaker 4: for the most part, life is good.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 9: Well, and he'd like he talked about you know, he
Speaker 9: understands why people relate to it so much, even though
Speaker 9: it seems like, you know, when you hear of some
Speaker 9: be talking about because we talk about it in the
Speaker 9: movie industry all the time or the TV industry where
Speaker 9: it's like let's do a let's do a story about
Speaker 9: a famous person, you go, well, that's not relatable. But
Speaker 9: the actual struggle of fame and life changing those things
Speaker 9: are actually super relatable and so exactly like you said,
Speaker 9: where he wrote songs about a very specific sliver of
Speaker 9: his life that he was willing to let you in on,
Speaker 9: and it happened to be aspects of life that everyone
Speaker 9: can relate to.
Speaker 3: It's just it's really interesting.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 8: I also just love hearing you know, it's like for
Speaker 8: you know, doing music for ten years before you have
Speaker 8: that moment.
Speaker 4: But of course, as far as the world is concerned,
Speaker 4: you're an overnight success.
Speaker 3: That happened.
Speaker 4: No, that's never the case. Whenever you hear about an
Speaker 4: overnight success, there is probably ten years of struggle. Now,
Speaker 4: when you're talking about child actors, that's a little different.
Speaker 4: You can't you can't just be sitting on a porch
Speaker 4: somewhere and somebody finds you. But that doesn't happen musically now,
Speaker 4: it doesn't happen.
Speaker 2: It doesn't happen almost in any other capacity, Like it's
Speaker 2: really specifically too kid actors. But yeah, I've always thought
Speaker 2: about that, like you know how much. And also just
Speaker 2: like it's so interesting to hear about there's so especially
Speaker 2: with rock and roll or music in general, there's so
Speaker 2: much glamor and excitement and but the reality is like
Speaker 2: the day to day life of being a musician is
Speaker 2: so much work.
Speaker 3: Like toy now, I mean, and we're little tour we're doing.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine being on tour for nine months a
Speaker 1: year the mad scene.
Speaker 4: No, And if you're like the lead singer or the
Speaker 4: lead musician, you're doing every every night.
Speaker 8: It just takes so much energy.
Speaker 7: And yeah, I couldn't imagine but him just going and
Speaker 7: not even really knowing how to play the piano, but
Speaker 7: going in picking out the notes and then going, oh,
Speaker 7: I'm a songwriter. I mean that's amazing to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's in credit.
Speaker 8: I've never heard that story. It's really cool.
Speaker 3: I love it, very cool.
Speaker 9: Well, thank you all for joining us for this episode
Speaker 9: of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us
Speaker 9: on Instagram, Pod Meets World Show. You can send us
Speaker 9: your emails Pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com
Speaker 9: and we have merch missed the march and me pod
Speaker 9: Meets Worldshow dot com.
Speaker 3: Thank you all for joining us writer send us out.
Speaker 1: We love you all. Pod dismissed.
Speaker 2: Podmeets World is an iHeart podcast producer hosted by Danielle Fischel,
Speaker 2: Wilfridell and Ryder Strong executive producers, Jensen Karp and Amy
Speaker 2: Sugarman Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor,
Speaker 2: Tara Subasch, producer, Mattie.
Speaker 4: Moore engineer and Boy Meets World Superman Easton Allen. Our
Speaker 4: theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us
Speaker 4: on Instagram at Podmets World Show or email us at
Speaker 4: Podmeats World Show at gmail dot com