WEBVTT - Adam Duritz Meets World 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:20.800 So I have this. 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:23.919 I have a redwood growing outside of my office here 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:26.400 when I when I moved into my house, there were 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:30.160 two redwoods, and you don't really they don't really grow 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:32.680 in Los Angeles. There's not many of them but there, 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:34.920 and one of them is really struggling because it's too hot, 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:37.800 there's too much sun. But this other one right outside 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:41.000 of my office is thriving. It is now twenty feet tall. 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:42.320 It is beautiful. 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:43.800 It's feeding off your energy. 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:47.839 Yeah right, well, so yeah, you know, you guys know, 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.920 I literally grew up underneath giant redwood, Like we have 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:52.760 hundreds of them on on our property, and so I 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.640 grew up climbing these trees, just playing under them. 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:55.960 You know. 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:58.360 I used to like I used to climb one tree 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:00.520 in particular to read in it, and I would. 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:00.960 Use the. 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:10.880 Tree poets and there's the there're these beautiful, ancient, endangered species. 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:16.000 But I realized, like I have a very intense identification 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.240 and dedication to a species of plant, you know, And 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:21.160 I mean for an atheist, this is like the closest 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:24.559 I have to a spiritual connection used. 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:26.720 To drop fake dead bodies out of these trees. 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:30.280 Yes, So do you guys have or like a certain 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:34.039 animal or plant that you've ever identified with or cared about. 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:43.640 No, no, no, even even going back to like Save 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:45.919 the Whales in the eighties, like you didn't care about 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:48.200 dolphins or whales. 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:49.880 Them. 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.960 I just don't identify with I hope a dolphin has 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:56.040 a good life. I'm never you know, I wish the best, 0:01:56.120 --> 0:02:00.160 foresaid dolphin or whale, but I don't identify with them. 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:02.080 You know, like the gas station shirts you can get 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:03.920 that have the whales and the wolves and stuff like that. 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:06.600 I was a teenager. 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:10.920 Oh I remember your wolf face? Yeah, I Lance. 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:14.240 Lance gave me a necklace in the nineties that was 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:18.360 three dolphins swimming in like a circle. And it was 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:20.440 one of those things you could do on your touristy 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:24.000 vacation where you would pick an oyster and then you 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:25.560 get to pop it open and see if there's a 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:29.080 pearl inside, and so then the dolphins have their swimming 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:30.400 in a circle and you put the pearl in the 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:30.960 middle of it. 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:34.040 The dolphins seemed confused if they're just swimming in a circle. 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:35.280 Well, I don't know what dolphins do. 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:37.720 But there was a point where then after he gave 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:38.960 me the necklace, where it was like. 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.960 Do I do I like dolphins? Am I had? Am 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:43.720 I going to be a dolphin girl now? 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:49.000 And then it was very nor lance and I also 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:50.080 went horseback riding. 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:51.760 But so he was trying to make you into a 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:53.320 different animal girls. 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think he wanted me 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:58.200 to like have a thing. It was going to make 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:01.200 it easier to buy me gifts. Yeah, but no, I 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:04.560 mean I like, I like dogs. 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:06.760 Yeah, you guys have dogs. 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:14.000 I don't have a dog. And way too many animals. 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:15.280 So now I don't even get that. 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:17.800 You know what, you know what I what I was 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:19.640 as a kid that I we've never really talked about. 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:21.360 I was a rat girl. 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:23.680 We had rats. 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:26.720 We had rats, many rats as a pet. 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:28.760 Or you was just your home wasn't clean. 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:30.519 No, no, we had rat as a pet. 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:35.080 So the story how we rats is actually it's one 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:37.480 of my it's one of my favorite childhood stories because 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:41.880 it's terrible and my So we went to the pet 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.600 store and my mom was like, oh, we should get hamsters, 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:49.760 and so we got two hamsters. Yeah, so we got 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.280 two hamsters. My brother picked a hamster and I picked 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.600 a hamster. The hamster my brother picked was was a 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:59.480 little chunky and cute as can be and all gray, 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.840 and he was like wild and not super kind, like 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:04.240 you know the balls you could put a hamster in 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:06.880 and they go running. When you tried to get him 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.160 out of that thing, he'd bite you and he'd every 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:10.920 single time he'd bite the tip of my finger and 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.400 I'd bleed. So his we kind of I was like, 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.120 that hamster's a jerk. I don't like that hamster. My 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:21.359 hamster was cream and she was yetle and she's so 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.520 sweet and I loved her and she never bit me. 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.240 So they didn't tell us that there's any reason to 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.360 not put the male and female hamster together, and we 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:37.240 weren't really thinking about that. We had one big cage 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.040 that then had a tube that connected to another cage, 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.320 so they each had their own space. And the way 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:45.360 our rooms were set up, my brother and my rooms 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:47.400 were right next to each other, and there was like 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.159 a linen closet in the hallway right outside our rooms, 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:52.760 and that's where the hamster cage lived. Well, one night 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.520 we heard all this commotion and my brother, who's four 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.520 years younger than me, Chris, yelled from his room Danielle, 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.560 and I said, yeah, and he said, I can't sleep 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:05.040 the hamsters are making so much noise. And I said, okay, 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:07.719 no problem, I'll get up and close your door. So 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:09.760 I got up and I closed his bedroom door, and 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:11.400 then I went into my room and I closed my 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:14.560 door and we went to sleep. The next morning, I 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.440 wake up to the sound of my brother screaming, and 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.679 my hamster is sitting in the corner of her little 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:26.640 side and she's like this, and she's cleaning her face 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:33.880 and she is covered in blood, my little white cream 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:42.760 hamster covered. Then she had eaten the head of my 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:49.880 brother's hamster. So we panicked. We were like, oh my gosh, 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:52.520 what is this. And my mom just picked up the cage, 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:54.360 put him in the car and then brought him. 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.920 Back to the pet store and was like, this ham. 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:04.599 Or decapitated this hamster. We do not want these anymore. 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.320 And they were like, oh, yeah, you can't put them together. 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:13.880 Do not tell you that, obviously, not, I have to 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:19.280 tell you. My brother then drew murder hamster art for years. 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:24.839 In Hamster, there's a. 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.640 Picture of a bed with him sleeping in it, with 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.839 z's coming up from his head, and then a bloody 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.640 massacre going on right outside, and he for years blamed 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:37.039 himself because he said, when when I couldn't sleep and 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.640 they were making all that noise, had a scream for help, 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.320 screaming for help, and I just wanted to sleep. 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:45.040 I had the same thing. 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:47.720 It sounds so weird, but I had a very traumatic 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.120 experience the same kind of way. I had a gerbil 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:50.839 named Charcoal. 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:56.200 I was going to say, you ate your roommate, no ird, 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:02.640 this gerbal named charcoal And we got cats and I 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:04.680 heard I was like eight or nine years old and 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:06.760 I was downstairs and I heard a crash upstairs, and 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:08.479 I was too scared to go up and check what 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:08.880 it was. 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.040 And my cats had knocked over their things age and 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:17.720 killed the gerbil. And so to this day, any noise 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:19.680 I go and check, I'm like. 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:22.920 Because you don't want another gerbil to die, you know, left. 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:26.840 Behind Gerbils on my watch are going to die. So 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:28.920 that same thing where it's like, had I just checked, 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:30.520 I would have been fine. 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:32.600 Well that's how we ended up with rats, is that 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.320 the people at the pet store said, to be honest, 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:37.240 hamsters are disgusting creatures. 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.040 If you want a good pet, here's a rat. 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:42.720 And my mom was like, the tail and they were like, yeah, yeah, 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:44.240 you just need to get past the tail. But they're 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.560 actually great pets, and so we did. We got a 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.360 We got a rat named Joey and he was spectacular 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:50.440 the rat. 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:54.600 Joe kidding me? 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:55.640 Are you just saying this? 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:56.400 Now? 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:58.080 We got to get two rats named one Joey and 0:07:58.080 --> 0:07:59.760 the other Stanky for keto, Are. 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:01.520 You Joey the rat? 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.160 I had Joey the rat, and I had him while 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:07.280 we were on Boy Meets World? 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:07.960 Made this connection. 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.040 Joey was amazing. Joey also knew his name. 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.120 He could do it so Joey could sit up on 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:15.160 his hind legs and grab the top of his cage 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.200 and then he'd pull himself up and so with his head, 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:19.040 he'd pop the top of his case. He'd popped the 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:20.720 lid off of his cage, and then he could pull 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:23.080 himself up and he'd run out, and we'd come home 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.240 and Joey would be missing, and we'd go Joey and 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:28.040 he'd come running out from wherever he was. 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:29.680 Could he also a Yes? 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:31.800 Was he musical? 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:33.800 Was he musically talented? 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:35.040 And he started great? 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.720 He started a great indie band, Kylie. 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.880 Yeah, but he ain't got no, he is so well, 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:43.600 I can't believe this. Yes, and then I had and 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:46.920 then I had rats named Jedediah. I named them after 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:50.480 Tapega's dad. I had Chloe and Jedediah. And we had 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:54.920 a rat named Laser. My brother named him Laser, but 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:56.840 then we figured out it was a girl, and so 0:08:56.920 --> 0:08:58.360 then we changed her Lazy. 0:08:58.679 --> 0:08:59.600 Well, I was rat girl. 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:03.160 I was a total l So, getting back to my initial, yes, 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:04.200 so I was a rack girl. 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.040 Yes, I am a Redwood tree person. 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:06.839 You are a. 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:11.200 Joey the rat baby. That's now I know. Now, I 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:13.200 know why he stands to me. 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:18.640 So, Joe Cammel, Will's Will's spiritual friend. 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.400 Welcome to pod meets World. I'm Daniel Fishl. 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:24.960 I'm Redwood Strong. 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:27.199 I'm wilfredll. 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.560 It would be hard to describe a young writer strong 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:45.400 without including the words counting and crows. At some point 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:49.720 in your explanation, you see young writer and old soul 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.800 new and was set with his favorite things, carrying a 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:57.760 book in his monstrous Jinko jeans pocket, giving a white 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:00.880 rose to a girlfriend at age twelve, Then every year 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:05.319 after turning me against my mother and praising culture shifting 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:09.240 albums like August and everything after, and recovering the satellites 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.240 from his favorite band and his love for the Bay 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.440 Area musicians. Claiming a hometown very close to his own 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:18.880 was infectious, turning Will and I into super fans as well, 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:21.360 so much so that at some point in my early 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:25.160 twenties I jumped on staged and danced as they played. 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:27.800 But we will not focus on that for now. Their 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:30.920 lead singer, one of the most talented songwriters of the decade, 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:34.240 if not our generation, has come up multiple times on 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.240 this podcast, and for good reason. The spirit of the 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.560 Counting Crows has a very similar spirit as Boy Meets World. 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:44.400 Both had heart and substance and an ability to speak 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.320 to fans beyond just the tropes of our time. The 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:50.480 Grammy and Academy Award nominated singer has survived the test 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.640 of time with his body of work and eventual collaborations, 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.400 speaking to listeners just as much now as he did 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:59.840 when he first debuted with the absolute classic Mister Jones. 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:03.240 He's still touring today, selling out stops all over the world, 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.960 but today we're gonna make him talk about something he 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:09.560 never thought he'd even think about again in this life. 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:12.920 For more than three minutes, Boy meets World. We're honored 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.160 to welcome a true muse for us cast members and 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.040 someone I'm hoping will be Writer's new best friend, The 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.560 Counting Crow's lead singer, Adam Durretz. 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:24.000 Oh my gosh, thank you so much for being here 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:24.440 with us. 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.600 Hello you guys. It has been forever I know. 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:31.360 Right wow, So we would be remiss if we did 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.280 not acknowledge that between you Adam being here on the 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:37.280 podcast with us and Lisa Loebe doing one of our 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.600 live shows, this podcast has quickly become a bit of 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.319 a make a wish for writers musical dayste. 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:45.600 It absolutely has. 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.160 It's like, let's go back to nineteen ninety six over 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:49.320 and over and over again. 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:51.640 Yes, and give writer all of his make all of 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:55.400 his ninety six streams come true. So do you remember 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:57.760 Adam Ryder coming to a lot of the shows and 0:11:57.800 --> 0:11:59.040 me coming to a lot of the shows? 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:03.559 Oh? Yeah, of course, and parties at the house too, Yes, yeah, 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:04.080 of course. 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:06.439 I think I only met you once. So they were 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:08.240 younger than me and they went out off on their 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:11.959 own to all the cool concerts and stuff, and you, hello. 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:12.839 Will, how are you? 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.120 We were just rewatching an episode and I realized, like, oh, 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:20.400 that was the episode where I left taping to go 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:24.040 see my first Counting Crows concert, which was the Hollywood 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.599 Grand Concert where you go wow really yeah, where you 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.880 guys played all the Recovery and the satellite songs for 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:31.719 the first time, And that was my first concert, and 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:33.160 I remember just being like, I. 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:35.400 Love all of these songs. This album's going to be amazing. 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:36.839 And then had to wait like a year for the album. 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.480 I remember that, So that was really cool. Yeah, we 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.120 were getting ready to like do make the record. Yeah, 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:43.000 it was great. 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:46.360 Yeah, a great way to get introduced to all the songs. 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:48.120 But anyway, we were just watching that and I was like. 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:50.240 Sixteen, yes, yes, ninety six. 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.200 Well, and writer's real life love for you guys became 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.600 a character trait of his fictional self. He wrote Counting 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:01.240 Crows on Sean's folder that I then, yeah, there's Counting 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.240 Crows and Strofty right, the words you tried to make happen. 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:06.320 Counting Crows written on a. 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:10.199 Sean notebook that you're holding up in the school hallway, 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.439 and it was mentioned to be the Counting Crows was 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:17.880 Shawn's favorite band. So did you know at the time 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:23.040 that you and your music was actually influencing Sean from 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:24.160 Boy Meets World at all? 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.160 Was that in your zeitgeist at all? 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.040 No, I don't think so. Until I met Ryder, I'm 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.319 not sure. I remember. One thing I do remember was 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:36.360 that the show was like simultaneous with us, Yes, like 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:42.439 I think you went on the air. Maybe it was 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:44.840 the same fall that we went on tour for our 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:47.599 first album, Like, yes, so I think we left in 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:49.800 August of ninety three or something, and you went on 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.520 tour in September of ninety or like. The show went 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:54.959 on that year. I remember that and knowing about it, 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:57.400 So maybe I did, which is that would be the 0:13:57.480 --> 0:13:59.880 reason I would know that well. I mostly remember me 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:07.000 being Danielle and Ryder though a few years later. Yeah, 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:09.400 it was a weird thing back then that people don't 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:15.200 take into account that before all the streaming and things 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:20.280 being out on DVDs, touring and primetime did not mix, 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:24.520 you know, like shows that were on TV. You just 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.680 like I mean, for all the talk about friends in 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.240 our band, I had never seen the show because I 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:31.880 had been on tour the whole time the show was 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:32.440 on the air. 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:34.720 Right, And when would you have been able to watch 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:37.280 Primetime TV. You know, you're like on stage at the 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:39.440 same time that shows are airing. 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:44.800 Exactly, so like the whole television from that period, Like 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.200 I had never seen Seinfeld until way later. I think 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.280 it was around the same time as well, because I 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:55.880 didn't see Seinfeld until it was like I had a 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:59.280 DVD box set years later because I missed the entirety 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.360 of the run on television. Wow. 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.240 Well, we the three of us talk a lot about 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.480 the experience of auditioning for a part on a show 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:12.120 and then a month later you're on primetime TV for 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:16.560 an audience of seventeen million people. And while researching your career, 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.960 it's amazing you had a pretty similar situation. You had 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.040 been in a few bands and then you formed Counting 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:24.200 Crows and pretty quickly you were in like a bidding 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.400 war between labels and mister Jones being one of the 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:28.640 first songs you recorded. 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:32.000 How did you then deal with that change in your life? 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:33.200 Uh? 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:33.800 Freaked out? 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:34.440 Yeah? 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:40.160 Mostly mostly, I just I mean I was a very 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.160 shy person. I you know, I was dealing with a 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.880 lot of mental illness too before then that I you know, 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:50.600 wasn't talking about publicly, and you know, I had the 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.000 social disorder, which you know, keeps you at a sort 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:57.760 of distance from the world. So I was very hesitant 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.640 around people you know, and then I was only all 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:03.520 the people in the world you know, are looking at you. 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:08.040 I found that to be very strange and uncomfortable. But 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.000 you know, a lot when the other side of it 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:11.520 is that when you're in a band, a lot of 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:14.360 your life is spent in this bubble on the road 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:18.280 where you are with people you do know. Early on 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.440 we were mostly an opening band, but I had a 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:27.720 good introduction to like all the new people at first 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:32.720 as an opener for Suede and the Cranberries and then 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.080 Cracker for a long time, you know, as they were 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.320 all having success and we were the opening band, so 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:39.240 I would you know, I got a chance to kind 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:41.360 of work my way into it slowly because it was 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:47.520 about I don't know, five or six seven months until 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:49.080 it really blew up. Yeah. 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:53.560 Well, you've been very vocal about the dissociative disorder, and 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.640 I didn't realize that you were dealing with that before 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:01.000 you had success as well, because the for our listeners 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.520 who may not know what it is, but it's where 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:06.159 you feel very distance your mind is very distance from 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.399 the reality that you are experiencing, and it causes a 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:11.399 lot of memory loss, right, Like you don't have a 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:13.640 lot of strong memories from certain times of your life. 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:16.320 Well, it can do that. It just kind of you 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:18.520 just kind of live at a distance from things at times, 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.479 and you know, it can blur out parts of your 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:25.600 life a bit. But you know, I didn't talk about 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:27.919 it back then because while it was a real problem 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.200 for me, I didn't want to, like, you know, I 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:36.639 didn't want to be a public circus, you know. But 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.240 also it's you know, it wasn't the entirety of my life. 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:40.680 It was just part of what was going on. 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:40.920 You know. 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:45.000 I was enjoying getting to be a rock star. I 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.280 mean it was pretty cool, honestly. 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:48.399 Yeah, of course. 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.399 I mean especially because you know, you dream about this 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:53.840 your whole life. You're in your bedroom by yourself. I mean, 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:55.800 you guys all know this because you want to be 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:57.760 an actor. But it seems like, how is anyone even 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:00.200 going to know who I am? You know, like your 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.200 bedroom in my case, in Berkeley or San Francisco, and 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:06.760 you you writing songs, But it's not like how's the 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.440 world's supposed to hear that, and then they do, you know, 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:13.600 and that's it's really cool, you know, it is it's 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:18.159 and you know it's that's thirty years ago now, the 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.920 first album, it was thirty years this year. Yeah, so 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:27.359 I mean I've spent more of my life in this 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.960 life than not, you know, which is I mean, it's 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:33.720 really cool. It is everything I ever wanted. 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:36.560 You've also you've explored this a lot on a conscious 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:38.600 level in the songs themselves, you know, I mean there's 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.560 the irony of like the lyrics to mister Jones, but 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.679 then also just throughout your career, you know, you missus 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:48.200 Potter's lullo By and more like when I Dream of Michaelangelo. 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:52.520 You always you talk about this tension between the artist 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:57.440 and the audience's identification with with the artists, and you know, 0:18:57.560 --> 0:18:59.320 for us, it's it's kind of simple. We can be 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.800 like we're not our characters, right, Like that's a different person. 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:04.680 And while there's a lot of crossover, you know, we 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.560 look the same as Soundless, but it's it's but for you, 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.840 you're actually you know, you are creating characters and narratives 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.120 within your stories. But for the most part, it's it's 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.080 a confessional point of view, it's it's you're writing about yourself. 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:21.959 So I mean, yeah, when people confuse you with your character, 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:23.359 does that feel I mean, what. 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:23.920 Is that like? 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:27.840 Well, I mean I am my characters. There's no confusion. 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.320 I mean, these songs are all about me. Every one 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:35.359 of them is about me, you know. And and also 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.800 you know, and I think you you build a career 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.840 on something like that, and people identify with it, you know, 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:45.080 they they because you know, you're talking about things you 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:46.880 feel and things you go through in your life. And sure, 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.960 some of the things are you know, not everybody gets 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:51.439 to be a rock star or something, but a lot 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:54.920 of it is just human expression and feelings and what 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.600 human beings deal with when they try to like relate 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:00.320 to each other. And I think that's what most of 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:04.000 my songs are really about. And you know, the the 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.560 the confusing part of it, I think for people is 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.280 that I totally understand why people relate to all the 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.560 things in the songs, but just not the same thing 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:21.320