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Speaker 1: So I have this.

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Speaker 2: I have a redwood growing outside of my office here

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Speaker 2: when I when I moved into my house, there were

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Speaker 2: two redwoods, and you don't really they don't really grow

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Speaker 2: in Los Angeles. There's not many of them but there,

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Speaker 2: and one of them is really struggling because it's too hot,

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Speaker 2: there's too much sun. But this other one right outside

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Speaker 2: of my office is thriving. It is now twenty feet tall.

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Speaker 2: It is beautiful.

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Speaker 3: It's feeding off your energy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, well, so yeah, you know, you guys know,

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Speaker 2: I literally grew up underneath giant redwood, Like we have

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Speaker 2: hundreds of them on on our property, and so I

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Speaker 2: grew up climbing these trees, just playing under them.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I used to like I used to climb one tree

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Speaker 2: in particular to read in it, and I would.

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Speaker 1: Use the.

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Speaker 4: Tree poets and there's the there're these beautiful, ancient, endangered species.

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Speaker 4: But I realized, like I have a very intense identification

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Speaker 4: and dedication to a species of plant, you know, And

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Speaker 4: I mean for an atheist, this is like the closest

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Speaker 4: I have to a spiritual connection used.

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Speaker 3: To drop fake dead bodies out of these trees.

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Speaker 4: Yes, So do you guys have or like a certain

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Speaker 4: animal or plant that you've ever identified with or cared about.

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Speaker 5: No, no, no, even even going back to like Save

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Speaker 5: the Whales in the eighties, like you didn't care about

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Speaker 5: dolphins or whales.

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Speaker 6: Them.

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Speaker 7: I just don't identify with I hope a dolphin has

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Speaker 7: a good life. I'm never you know, I wish the best,

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Speaker 7: foresaid dolphin or whale, but I don't identify with them.

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Speaker 7: You know, like the gas station shirts you can get

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Speaker 7: that have the whales and the wolves and stuff like that.

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Speaker 8: I was a teenager.

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Speaker 3: Oh I remember your wolf face? Yeah, I Lance.

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Speaker 9: Lance gave me a necklace in the nineties that was

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Speaker 9: three dolphins swimming in like a circle. And it was

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Speaker 9: one of those things you could do on your touristy

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Speaker 9: vacation where you would pick an oyster and then you

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Speaker 9: get to pop it open and see if there's a

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Speaker 9: pearl inside, and so then the dolphins have their swimming

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Speaker 9: in a circle and you put the pearl in the

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Speaker 9: middle of it.

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Speaker 7: The dolphins seemed confused if they're just swimming in a circle.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't know what dolphins do.

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Speaker 9: But there was a point where then after he gave

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Speaker 9: me the necklace, where it was like.

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Speaker 3: Do I do I like dolphins? Am I had? Am

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Speaker 3: I going to be a dolphin girl now?

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Speaker 9: And then it was very nor lance and I also

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Speaker 9: went horseback riding.

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Speaker 4: But so he was trying to make you into a

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Speaker 4: different animal girls.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think he wanted me

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Speaker 9: to like have a thing. It was going to make

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Speaker 9: it easier to buy me gifts. Yeah, but no, I

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Speaker 9: mean I like, I like dogs.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, you guys have dogs.

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Speaker 4: I don't have a dog. And way too many animals.

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Speaker 4: So now I don't even get that.

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Speaker 9: You know what, you know what I what I was

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Speaker 9: as a kid that I we've never really talked about.

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Speaker 3: I was a rat girl.

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Speaker 4: We had rats.

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Speaker 3: We had rats, many rats as a pet.

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Speaker 7: Or you was just your home wasn't clean.

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Speaker 3: No, no, we had rat as a pet.

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Speaker 9: So the story how we rats is actually it's one

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Speaker 9: of my it's one of my favorite childhood stories because

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Speaker 9: it's terrible and my So we went to the pet

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Speaker 9: store and my mom was like, oh, we should get hamsters,

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Speaker 9: and so we got two hamsters. Yeah, so we got

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Speaker 9: two hamsters. My brother picked a hamster and I picked

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Speaker 9: a hamster. The hamster my brother picked was was a

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Speaker 9: little chunky and cute as can be and all gray,

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Speaker 9: and he was like wild and not super kind, like

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Speaker 9: you know the balls you could put a hamster in

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Speaker 9: and they go running. When you tried to get him

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Speaker 9: out of that thing, he'd bite you and he'd every

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Speaker 9: single time he'd bite the tip of my finger and

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Speaker 9: I'd bleed. So his we kind of I was like,

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Speaker 9: that hamster's a jerk. I don't like that hamster. My

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Speaker 9: hamster was cream and she was yetle and she's so

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Speaker 9: sweet and I loved her and she never bit me.

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Speaker 9: So they didn't tell us that there's any reason to

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Speaker 9: not put the male and female hamster together, and we

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Speaker 9: weren't really thinking about that. We had one big cage

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Speaker 9: that then had a tube that connected to another cage,

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Speaker 9: so they each had their own space. And the way

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Speaker 9: our rooms were set up, my brother and my rooms

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Speaker 9: were right next to each other, and there was like

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Speaker 9: a linen closet in the hallway right outside our rooms,

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Speaker 9: and that's where the hamster cage lived. Well, one night

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Speaker 9: we heard all this commotion and my brother, who's four

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Speaker 9: years younger than me, Chris, yelled from his room Danielle,

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Speaker 9: and I said, yeah, and he said, I can't sleep

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Speaker 9: the hamsters are making so much noise. And I said, okay,

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Speaker 9: no problem, I'll get up and close your door. So

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Speaker 9: I got up and I closed his bedroom door, and

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Speaker 9: then I went into my room and I closed my

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Speaker 9: door and we went to sleep. The next morning, I

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Speaker 9: wake up to the sound of my brother screaming, and

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Speaker 9: my hamster is sitting in the corner of her little

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Speaker 9: side and she's like this, and she's cleaning her face

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Speaker 9: and she is covered in blood, my little white cream

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Speaker 9: hamster covered. Then she had eaten the head of my

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Speaker 9: brother's hamster. So we panicked. We were like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 9: what is this. And my mom just picked up the cage,

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Speaker 9: put him in the car and then brought him.

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Speaker 3: Back to the pet store and was like, this ham.

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Speaker 9: Or decapitated this hamster. We do not want these anymore.

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Speaker 3: And they were like, oh, yeah, you can't put them together.

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Speaker 3: Do not tell you that, obviously, not, I have to

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Speaker 3: tell you. My brother then drew murder hamster art for years.

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Speaker 4: In Hamster, there's a.

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Speaker 9: Picture of a bed with him sleeping in it, with

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Speaker 9: z's coming up from his head, and then a bloody

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Speaker 9: massacre going on right outside, and he for years blamed

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Speaker 9: himself because he said, when when I couldn't sleep and

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Speaker 9: they were making all that noise, had a scream for help,

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Speaker 9: screaming for help, and I just wanted to sleep.

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Speaker 1: I had the same thing.

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Speaker 7: It sounds so weird, but I had a very traumatic

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Speaker 7: experience the same kind of way. I had a gerbil

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Speaker 7: named Charcoal.

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Speaker 6: I was going to say, you ate your roommate, no ird,

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Speaker 6: this gerbal named charcoal And we got cats and I

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Speaker 6: heard I was like eight or nine years old and

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Speaker 6: I was downstairs and I heard a crash upstairs, and

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Speaker 6: I was too scared to go up and check what

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Speaker 6: it was.

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Speaker 7: And my cats had knocked over their things age and

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Speaker 7: killed the gerbil. And so to this day, any noise

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Speaker 7: I go and check, I'm like.

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Speaker 9: Because you don't want another gerbil to die, you know, left.

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Speaker 7: Behind Gerbils on my watch are going to die. So

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Speaker 7: that same thing where it's like, had I just checked,

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Speaker 7: I would have been fine.

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Speaker 9: Well that's how we ended up with rats, is that

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Speaker 9: the people at the pet store said, to be honest,

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Speaker 9: hamsters are disgusting creatures.

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Speaker 3: If you want a good pet, here's a rat.

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Speaker 9: And my mom was like, the tail and they were like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 9: you just need to get past the tail. But they're

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Speaker 9: actually great pets, and so we did. We got a

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Speaker 9: We got a rat named Joey and he was spectacular

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Speaker 9: the rat.

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Speaker 3: Joe kidding me?

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Speaker 7: Are you just saying this?

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Speaker 6: Now?

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Speaker 2: We got to get two rats named one Joey and

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Speaker 2: the other Stanky for keto, Are.

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Speaker 7: You Joey the rat?

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Speaker 9: I had Joey the rat, and I had him while

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Speaker 9: we were on Boy Meets World?

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Speaker 4: Made this connection.

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Speaker 3: Joey was amazing. Joey also knew his name.

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Speaker 9: He could do it so Joey could sit up on

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Speaker 9: his hind legs and grab the top of his cage

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Speaker 9: and then he'd pull himself up and so with his head,

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Speaker 9: he'd pop the top of his case. He'd popped the

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Speaker 9: lid off of his cage, and then he could pull

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Speaker 9: himself up and he'd run out, and we'd come home

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Speaker 9: and Joey would be missing, and we'd go Joey and

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Speaker 9: he'd come running out from wherever he was.

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Speaker 1: Could he also a Yes?

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Speaker 3: Was he musical?

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Speaker 4: Was he musically talented?

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Speaker 1: And he started great?

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Speaker 4: He started a great indie band, Kylie.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, but he ain't got no, he is so well,

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Speaker 9: I can't believe this. Yes, and then I had and

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Speaker 9: then I had rats named Jedediah. I named them after

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Speaker 9: Tapega's dad. I had Chloe and Jedediah. And we had

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Speaker 9: a rat named Laser. My brother named him Laser, but

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Speaker 9: then we figured out it was a girl, and so

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Speaker 9: then we changed her Lazy.

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Speaker 3: Well, I was rat girl.

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Speaker 5: I was a total l So, getting back to my initial, yes,

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Speaker 5: so I was a rack girl.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I am a Redwood tree person.

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Speaker 1: You are a.

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Speaker 3: Joey the rat baby. That's now I know. Now, I

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Speaker 3: know why he stands to me.

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Speaker 9: So, Joe Cammel, Will's Will's spiritual friend.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to pod meets World. I'm Daniel Fishl.

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Speaker 4: I'm Redwood Strong.

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Speaker 7: I'm wilfredll.

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Speaker 9: It would be hard to describe a young writer strong

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Speaker 9: without including the words counting and crows. At some point

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Speaker 9: in your explanation, you see young writer and old soul

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Speaker 9: new and was set with his favorite things, carrying a

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Speaker 9: book in his monstrous Jinko jeans pocket, giving a white

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Speaker 9: rose to a girlfriend at age twelve, Then every year

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Speaker 9: after turning me against my mother and praising culture shifting

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Speaker 9: albums like August and everything after, and recovering the satellites

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Speaker 9: from his favorite band and his love for the Bay

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Speaker 9: Area musicians. Claiming a hometown very close to his own

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Speaker 9: was infectious, turning Will and I into super fans as well,

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Speaker 9: so much so that at some point in my early

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Speaker 9: twenties I jumped on staged and danced as they played.

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Speaker 9: But we will not focus on that for now. Their

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Speaker 9: lead singer, one of the most talented songwriters of the decade,

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Speaker 9: if not our generation, has come up multiple times on

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Speaker 9: this podcast, and for good reason. The spirit of the

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Speaker 9: Counting Crows has a very similar spirit as Boy Meets World.

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Speaker 9: Both had heart and substance and an ability to speak

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Speaker 9: to fans beyond just the tropes of our time. The

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Speaker 9: Grammy and Academy Award nominated singer has survived the test

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Speaker 9: of time with his body of work and eventual collaborations,

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Speaker 9: speaking to listeners just as much now as he did

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Speaker 9: when he first debuted with the absolute classic Mister Jones.

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Speaker 9: He's still touring today, selling out stops all over the world,

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Speaker 9: but today we're gonna make him talk about something he

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Speaker 9: never thought he'd even think about again in this life.

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Speaker 9: For more than three minutes, Boy meets World. We're honored

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Speaker 9: to welcome a true muse for us cast members and

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Speaker 9: someone I'm hoping will be Writer's new best friend, The

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Speaker 9: Counting Crow's lead singer, Adam Durretz.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, thank you so much for being here

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Speaker 3: with us.

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Speaker 1: Hello you guys. It has been forever I know.

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Speaker 9: Right wow, So we would be remiss if we did

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Speaker 9: not acknowledge that between you Adam being here on the

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Speaker 9: podcast with us and Lisa Loebe doing one of our

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Speaker 9: live shows, this podcast has quickly become a bit of

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Speaker 9: a make a wish for writers musical dayste.

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Speaker 1: It absolutely has.

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Speaker 4: It's like, let's go back to nineteen ninety six over

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Speaker 4: and over and over again.

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Speaker 9: Yes, and give writer all of his make all of

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Speaker 9: his ninety six streams come true. So do you remember

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Speaker 9: Adam Ryder coming to a lot of the shows and

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Speaker 9: me coming to a lot of the shows?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, of course, and parties at the house too, Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course.

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Speaker 7: I think I only met you once. So they were

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Speaker 7: younger than me and they went out off on their

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Speaker 7: own to all the cool concerts and stuff, and you, hello.

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Speaker 1: Will, how are you?

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Speaker 2: We were just rewatching an episode and I realized, like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that was the episode where I left taping to go

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Speaker 2: see my first Counting Crows concert, which was the Hollywood

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Speaker 2: Grand Concert where you go wow really yeah, where you

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Speaker 2: guys played all the Recovery and the satellite songs for

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Speaker 2: the first time, And that was my first concert, and

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Speaker 2: I remember just being like, I.

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Speaker 4: Love all of these songs. This album's going to be amazing.

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Speaker 8: And then had to wait like a year for the album.

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Speaker 1: I remember that, So that was really cool. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: were getting ready to like do make the record. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was great.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, a great way to get introduced to all the songs.

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Speaker 8: But anyway, we were just watching that and I was like.

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Speaker 4: Sixteen, yes, yes, ninety six.

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Speaker 9: Well, and writer's real life love for you guys became

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Speaker 9: a character trait of his fictional self. He wrote Counting

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Speaker 9: Crows on Sean's folder that I then, yeah, there's Counting

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Speaker 9: Crows and Strofty right, the words you tried to make happen.

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Speaker 3: Counting Crows written on a.

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Speaker 9: Sean notebook that you're holding up in the school hallway,

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Speaker 9: and it was mentioned to be the Counting Crows was

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Speaker 9: Shawn's favorite band. So did you know at the time

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Speaker 9: that you and your music was actually influencing Sean from

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Speaker 9: Boy Meets World at all?

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Speaker 3: Was that in your zeitgeist at all?

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Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. Until I met Ryder, I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure. I remember. One thing I do remember was

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Speaker 1: that the show was like simultaneous with us, Yes, like

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Speaker 1: I think you went on the air. Maybe it was

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Speaker 1: the same fall that we went on tour for our

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Speaker 1: first album, Like, yes, so I think we left in

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Speaker 1: August of ninety three or something, and you went on

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Speaker 1: tour in September of ninety or like. The show went

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Speaker 1: on that year. I remember that and knowing about it,

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Speaker 1: So maybe I did, which is that would be the

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Speaker 1: reason I would know that well. I mostly remember me

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Speaker 1: being Danielle and Ryder though a few years later. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a weird thing back then that people don't

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Speaker 1: take into account that before all the streaming and things

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Speaker 1: being out on DVDs, touring and primetime did not mix,

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Speaker 1: you know, like shows that were on TV. You just

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Speaker 1: like I mean, for all the talk about friends in

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Speaker 1: our band, I had never seen the show because I

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Speaker 1: had been on tour the whole time the show was

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Speaker 1: on the air.

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Speaker 9: Right, And when would you have been able to watch

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Speaker 9: Primetime TV. You know, you're like on stage at the

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Speaker 9: same time that shows are airing.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, so like the whole television from that period, Like

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Speaker 1: I had never seen Seinfeld until way later. I think

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Speaker 1: it was around the same time as well, because I

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Speaker 1: didn't see Seinfeld until it was like I had a

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Speaker 1: DVD box set years later because I missed the entirety

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Speaker 1: of the run on television. Wow.

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Speaker 9: Well, we the three of us talk a lot about

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Speaker 9: the experience of auditioning for a part on a show

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Speaker 9: and then a month later you're on primetime TV for

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Speaker 9: an audience of seventeen million people. And while researching your career,

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Speaker 9: it's amazing you had a pretty similar situation. You had

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Speaker 9: been in a few bands and then you formed Counting

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Speaker 9: Crows and pretty quickly you were in like a bidding

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Speaker 9: war between labels and mister Jones being one of the

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Speaker 9: first songs you recorded.

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Speaker 3: How did you then deal with that change in your life?

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Speaker 6: Uh?

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Speaker 1: Freaked out?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Mostly mostly, I just I mean I was a very

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Speaker 1: shy person. I you know, I was dealing with a

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Speaker 1: lot of mental illness too before then that I you know,

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Speaker 1: wasn't talking about publicly, and you know, I had the

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Speaker 1: social disorder, which you know, keeps you at a sort

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Speaker 1: of distance from the world. So I was very hesitant

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Speaker 1: around people you know, and then I was only all

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Speaker 1: the people in the world you know, are looking at you.

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Speaker 1: I found that to be very strange and uncomfortable. But

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot when the other side of it

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Speaker 1: is that when you're in a band, a lot of

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Speaker 1: your life is spent in this bubble on the road

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Speaker 1: where you are with people you do know. Early on

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Speaker 1: we were mostly an opening band, but I had a

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Speaker 1: good introduction to like all the new people at first

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Speaker 1: as an opener for Suede and the Cranberries and then

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Speaker 1: Cracker for a long time, you know, as they were

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Speaker 1: all having success and we were the opening band, so

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Speaker 1: I would you know, I got a chance to kind

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Speaker 1: of work my way into it slowly because it was

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Speaker 1: about I don't know, five or six seven months until

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Speaker 1: it really blew up. Yeah.

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Speaker 9: Well, you've been very vocal about the dissociative disorder, and

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Speaker 9: I didn't realize that you were dealing with that before

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Speaker 9: you had success as well, because the for our listeners

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Speaker 9: who may not know what it is, but it's where

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Speaker 9: you feel very distance your mind is very distance from

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Speaker 9: the reality that you are experiencing, and it causes a

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Speaker 9: lot of memory loss, right, Like you don't have a

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Speaker 9: lot of strong memories from certain times of your life.

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Speaker 1: Well, it can do that. It just kind of you

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Speaker 1: just kind of live at a distance from things at times,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it can blur out parts of your

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Speaker 1: life a bit. But you know, I didn't talk about

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Speaker 1: it back then because while it was a real problem

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Speaker 1: for me, I didn't want to, like, you know, I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to be a public circus, you know. But

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Speaker 1: also it's you know, it wasn't the entirety of my life.

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Speaker 1: It was just part of what was going on.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: I was enjoying getting to be a rock star. I

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Speaker 1: mean it was pretty cool, honestly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, of course.

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Speaker 1: I mean especially because you know, you dream about this

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Speaker 1: your whole life. You're in your bedroom by yourself. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you guys all know this because you want to be

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Speaker 1: an actor. But it seems like, how is anyone even

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Speaker 1: going to know who I am? You know, like your

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Speaker 1: bedroom in my case, in Berkeley or San Francisco, and

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Speaker 1: you you writing songs, But it's not like how's the

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Speaker 1: world's supposed to hear that, and then they do, you know,

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Speaker 1: and that's it's really cool, you know, it is it's

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Speaker 1: and you know it's that's thirty years ago now, the

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Speaker 1: first album, it was thirty years this year. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I mean I've spent more of my life in this

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Speaker 1: life than not, you know, which is I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: really cool. It is everything I ever wanted.

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Speaker 2: You've also you've explored this a lot on a conscious

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Speaker 2: level in the songs themselves, you know, I mean there's

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Speaker 2: the irony of like the lyrics to mister Jones, but

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Speaker 2: then also just throughout your career, you know, you missus

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Speaker 2: Potter's lullo By and more like when I Dream of Michaelangelo.

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Speaker 2: You always you talk about this tension between the artist

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Speaker 2: and the audience's identification with with the artists, and you know,

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Speaker 2: for us, it's it's kind of simple. We can be

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Speaker 2: like we're not our characters, right, Like that's a different person.

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Speaker 2: And while there's a lot of crossover, you know, we

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Speaker 2: look the same as Soundless, but it's it's but for you,

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Speaker 2: you're actually you know, you are creating characters and narratives

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Speaker 2: within your stories. But for the most part, it's it's

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Speaker 2: a confessional point of view, it's it's you're writing about yourself.

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Speaker 2: So I mean, yeah, when people confuse you with your character,

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Speaker 2: does that feel I mean, what.

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Speaker 9: Is that like?

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean I am my characters. There's no confusion.

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Speaker 1: I mean, these songs are all about me. Every one

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Speaker 1: of them is about me, you know. And and also

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Speaker 1: you know, and I think you you build a career

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Speaker 1: on something like that, and people identify with it, you know,

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Speaker 1: they they because you know, you're talking about things you

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Speaker 1: feel and things you go through in your life. And sure,

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Speaker 1: some of the things are you know, not everybody gets

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Speaker 1: to be a rock star or something, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of it is just human expression and feelings and what

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Speaker 1: human beings deal with when they try to like relate

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Speaker 1: to each other. And I think that's what most of

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Speaker 1: my songs are really about. And you know, the the

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Speaker 1: the confusing part of it, I think for people is

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Speaker 1: that I totally understand why people relate to all the

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Speaker 1: things in the songs, but just not the same thing

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Speaker 1: as knowing me, you know, because you're getting a very

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Speaker 1: specific amount of information that I'm willing to share with you,

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Speaker 1: right and and it's not the same thing as knowing

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Speaker 1: a person. But I get why everybody wants to be

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Speaker 1: pals because I'm the same way. You know, I want

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Speaker 1: to be friends with all my idols too. But yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a weird thing. The and I mean,

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Speaker 1: I explore it from both sides because certainly, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you arrive in Hollywood and you discover that that

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Speaker 1: TV and those movie screens are more windows than walls,

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Speaker 1: you know that you can actually go through them and

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Speaker 1: meet those people and date them or whatever. When you

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Speaker 1: discover that, you know, it brings up a whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of confusing things for you as well for myself, because

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Speaker 1: you know, I realized that I was meeting all these

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Speaker 1: you know girls I dreamt about or or imagine meeting,

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Speaker 1: but your your picture of them is a character on

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Speaker 1: a screen, you know, not a person. And you know,

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Speaker 1: so like Missus Potters especially, is about you know, what

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Speaker 1: are you doing fantasizing about fictional characters who look like

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Speaker 1: the real people that portray them, but aren't the real

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Speaker 1: people that portray them, you know, And it's a I

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Speaker 1: found that to be kind of a fascinating subject. I mean,

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Speaker 1: just because I realized I'm getting sucked into this I'm

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Speaker 1: like self consciously doing this thing that I know is crazy,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, no, it's a you know, pretty people people.

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Speaker 1: You know, what are you gonna do? You know, I've

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Speaker 1: been a geek, you know, I was a geeky kid.

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Speaker 1: You know, I like Star Wars and yeah, there's all

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Speaker 1: these girls. It was very confusing to me and fun

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Speaker 1: and yeah, you know, somewhat disappointing.

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Speaker 9: But Will Will literally went through the exact same thing.

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Speaker 9: Will has tried to convince us. I think he has

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Speaker 9: at this point that he was a nerdy, dorky kid

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Speaker 9: that girls did not like, and then he moved out

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Speaker 9: to LA and started Boy Meets World, and all of

437
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Speaker 9: a sudden he was able to date famous actresses and

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Speaker 9: how to urge.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's really bizarre when you go from you know,

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Speaker 7: painting miniature figures and reading your fantasy novels to people

441
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 7: in magazines wanting to date you. It's just it's and

442
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 7: so you're the natural thing you do is you question

443
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,719
Speaker 7: if it's real, because it's like, why, how can how

444
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 7: can this suddenly be happening on a Tuesday when last

445
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 7: Tuesday I was was specifically told not to show up

446
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,719
Speaker 7: at the party because nobody wanted me there, So I mean,

447
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,360
Speaker 7: did you feel that same thing where you're you love?

448
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 7: It's this weird balance of loving what you're doing but

449
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,360
Speaker 7: also questioning it every step of the way.

450
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, fame is a hell of a glow up,

451
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, it really does. It does make

452
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: us all look a lot better. But I think part

453
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: of it is that it's also like this affiday that

454
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: you come with. You know, because you walk up to

455
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: someone that you don't know at a party when you're younger,

456
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: and it's like they have a whole world of skepticism,

457
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: justifiably so, you know, and when you're famous, suddenly it

458
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: comes with like, well, okay, I might want to meet

459
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: him too, right, but then you still have to they

460
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 1: have to like you over time. Nobody's sticking around for well,

461
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess some people do. But mostly what

462
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: I thought that what I saw it as at the end,

463
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: is that mostly it's it's an opportunity to meet people.

464
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: You still have to be yourself and it is it

465
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: is real. Uh, It's just you know, it's not real

466
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: right at first, but that's just you know, the chance

467
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 1: nothing's real. When you meet people, you're always putting on

468
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: your best self. In any dating situation, we spend the

469
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 1: beginning of our relationship being absolutely the best version of ourselves,

470
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: and then you know, then you are who you are.

471
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 7: You know.

472
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: I have friends who do this, unfortunately in marriage, where

473
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: they're like the best husband ever, like ever possible for

474
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: a while, and then it's like then they become themselves

475
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: and they're still a good person, but it's inevitably a

476
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 1: disappointment after the servant they were for a while, you

477
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It leads to some really really

478
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: relationship problems.

479
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 9: You know, Yeah, my husband just started very mediocre, so

480
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 9: that I am never disappointed. He just is like, listen,

481
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 9: it's not age, it's not getting any better than this.

482
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 3: And now I'm just not disappointed because I know.

483
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: I started a five.

484
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 7: You're a good genius, honestly, absolutely genius.

485
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 9: It's the same reason why when I get older, I

486
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 9: am not going to tell anybody i'm younger. I'm going

487
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 9: to say I'm five or ten years older than I

488
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 9: really am. Like you look great, yeah, I'm like I'm

489
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 9: sixty two. I'm sixty two. I'm definitely not going to

490
00:24:59,000 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 9: go down.

491
00:24:59,720 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 1: Well.

492
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 9: It is really interesting because entertainment is the only field where,

493
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 9: whether you're an actor or a musician, suddenly your dating

494
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 9: life and your personal life it becomes a major focal point.

495
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 9: Like I don't know who my dentist dates or who

496
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 9: my accountant dates. And yet you know, so much of

497
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 9: your folklore, Adam was around your dating relationship, and yet

498
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 9: you were releasing absolutely classic albums. Did it ever bother

499
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 9: you that that there was that major distraction from the

500
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 9: music you were creating.

501
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because I also felt like, well a lot

502
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,239
Speaker 1: of it was fictional. I have dated people I've never

503
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: met in my life. More some women than i've never

504
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: met still never met in my life, are part of

505
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: these like Google alerts that pop up on my phone

506
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: about past dating histories, you know. And I felt like

507
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: at the time also, you know, inevitably after a successful

508
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: first record, there's always some kind of backlash. It's just

509
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: there's no way around it, you know, because radio is

510
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: going to play you as much as they can because

511
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: that's their that's how they make their money. And you know,

512
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: at some point you're just going to annoy the set

513
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: of everybody. Yeah, you know, you get sick of that song.

514
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: And I felt like after the first album. We spent

515
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 1: about three albums where I do feel like they were

516
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: kind of disregarded, and there the touring reviews and the

517
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: album reviews had more to do with my dating life

518
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: or my imagined dating life than they did with the

519
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: records themselves. You know. It's it's one of the real

520
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: disappointments in my career that Recovering the Satellites and This

521
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: Desert Life and Hard Candy got kind of disregarded. Those

522
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: three records in a lot of ways, you know, and

523
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: they're some of my favorite of our work. You know,

524
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: I really thought we got better and better right then,

525
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 1: but it really wasn't until Saturday nights and Sunday mornings

526
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: that the press came back around. You know.

527
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 4: Well, I think part of.

528
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 2: That is because August was such a huge hit. I mean,

529
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 2: you guys were out of the gate, like, you know,

530
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 2: next level kind of success. And I also remember that

531
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 2: there was this thing, you know, in the nineties, which

532
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 2: is thankfully not a thing anymore, but this whole notion

533
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: of selling out, you know, like and that was it

534
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,360
Speaker 2: was so it was so negative to be a sellout.

535
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 2: Do you remember feeling like worrying about that or how

536
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 2: you wrestled with that in the nineties.

537
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: Only worrying about like the perception of it, because the

538
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 1: idea of it seems so stupid, Like it's in every

539
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: other aspect of life, fame, entertainment, everything else. People are

540
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: just supposed to do the best they can. We love

541
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: to watch celebrities and sports heroes and hip hop heroes

542
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: on super Bowl commercials and everything else. Selling great even

543
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: then for those people, But just for rock and roll,

544
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: we were supposed to be I don't know what. Everybody

545
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: else in their careers is just trying to do the

546
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 1: best they can. You're trying to make the money. That's

547
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 1: why everyone else in the world's career is about, you know,

548
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: and meanwhile we're supposed to not do any of that.

549
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: I always felt it was so silly, like it's so

550
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: hard to succeed in a band. The business is so bad.

551
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: The ability to support yourself and to have success for

552
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: more than a couple of years is so nearly impossible.

553
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 1: To deny yourself like one part of the possible earnings

554
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: seems so silly to me, like nobody else's thought of

555
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: that way. I remember, at one point, you know, we

556
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: got to radio, had gotten so genre specific in the

557
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: early two thousands that it was very There wasn't really

558
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: any genre that was right for us. We were just

559
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: like a bunch of different stuff. You know, our music

560
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: didn't fit any particular groove, and you know, it was

561
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: getting very hard for us to get played on the radio.

562
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: And we were getting ready to release hard Candy and

563
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: Coke came along our diet home I can't remember which

564
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: one it was and said, Hey, we really like that

565
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: song American Girls. We want to put it on a

566
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: on a commercial and we're going to put that commercial

567
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: on TV all summer long. Wow. And the record comes

568
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: out I think in the end of the summer of

569
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: the fall, and so like your single will be out

570
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: there on TV the entire summer. Its great for you,

571
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: And I thought, we've never done that, but that you know,

572
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: it seems like a really good idea, you know, like

573
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: we should and we did. But there was a lot

574
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: of like backlash about selling out about it. God fuck,

575
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: I like die coke. I drink it all. I used

576
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: to drink it all the time, you know. Uh, so

577
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: it isn't really selling out, it's just it's something I

578
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: actually used. But it kind of got slammed at that moment,

579
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking, wow, that was what is the

580
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: point of that? Like, what do you all expect us

581
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: to do? We're just everyone's trying to earn a living.

582
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: You're right, only as you can't.

583
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 4: It's specific. It was specific to the era.

584
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's gone now hopefully, But it

585
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 2: was also that you're right that it's very specific to

586
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: rock and roll, right like and but there's something about

587
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 2: that early nineties vibe too, like the grunge era, and

588
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: like you know, all of those all of all of

589
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: you guys were sort of grouped together as this like

590
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 2: anti establishment in some ways, it was a retro vibe,

591
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 2: you know, which is so funny now to think about. Like,

592
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 2: like when August and everything after came out, I remember

593
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 2: like a lot of the reviews were like, oh, this

594
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: is a throwback to the seventies or you know, this

595
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: is like a and yet now, of course the music

596
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 2: is so so associated with the nineties, you know, the

597
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 2: same way that, like our careers are so associated with

598
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 2: the nineties. How do you feel about the nineties now?

599
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 8: Like as an era?

600
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: Man, I lived through it. I never really think about

601
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: eras myself, like it always seems like this sort of

602
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: false value bucket we throw things into for grouping of time,

603
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: you know, like and we make judgments about it. You know,

604
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: like when I was growing up, the sixties were cool.

605
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: The seventies were bull right, you know, it's not the

606
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: seventies were kind of great. I don't know, they were weird,

607
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: and more of the vibe of the sixties took place

608
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: in the seventies and took place in the sixties, you know.

609
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: And then you know, I remember, you know, being a

610
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: little older, and the seventies were cool, and now the

611
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: eighties were and so shallow. But I look back on it.

612
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: In the eighties is the birth of college radio and

613
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: the birth of like indie rock and roll, And it

614
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: always seems like just this kind of that seems like

615
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: a way of selling things we get. We take a

616
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: group a block of time, and we lump it together

617
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,239
Speaker 1: and we say, all these people were this way, all

618
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: these people were this way. It's like there's a real

619
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: fascination now with every age group having its own gen or.

620
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: Some people are baby boomers, some people are zoomers, some

621
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: people are are like millennials, and it's like a I

622
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: realized my generation kind of doesn't really have that where.

623
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you could call us baby boomers, but baby

624
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: booms has to do with like people who were born

625
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: after World War Two, you know, Like I mean, I'm

626
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: born in the sixties. It's clearly not You call it

627
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: whatever you want. It just didn't seem like that that

628
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: stuff existed. I never even thought of it until what's

629
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: the name's book gen X came out? Generation was that.

630
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: I can't rember who Douglas Copewan wrote that book. It

631
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: all seems kind of I don't know, that's silly to me.

632
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: It's just like I have great memories of the nineties

633
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: and the time I spent, but only in the fact

634
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: that there are years I have to think about which

635
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: records came out when. Okay, well, Desert Life came out

636
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: in ninety nine, so that's the last record from the nineties.

637
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: Then we have the two thousands, which I remember having

638
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: a lot of fun on the millennium. I think we

639
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: threw a big party. But you know, I never really

640
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: thought much about it, except at the time I got

641
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: to be a rock star and there was a lot

642
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: of other cool bands playing great music. I loved touring

643
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: during that period. It just seemed like everywhere I went

644
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: there were other friends in town from wherever. It was

645
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: just like a really magical period. I moved to Hollywood

646
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: in the middle of that period and really loved that

647
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: for a long time too, you know.

648
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean Your August and everything after was released

649
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 9: on a label called DGC through Geffen Records, and it

650
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 9: was you were alongside like Nirvana, Teenage Fan Club, Sonic Youth, which,

651
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 9: like I don't mean to sound like a get off

652
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 9: my Lawn, but like you would be hard pressed to

653
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 9: find a more influential time in rock music.

654
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 3: What are what are some of your favorite.

655
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 9: Memories of being around those guys and and and just

656
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 9: being mixed with those other artists.

657
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,719
Speaker 1: Well, you know, we went to Geffen or DGC. There

658
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: were several labels at Gavin David Geffen company was DGC

659
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: and it was kind of the indie arm of the

660
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: company at the time, and it was it was kind

661
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: of a boutique label. And I think we went there

662
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: in the end because we felt like they were really patient.

663
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: They didn't they didn't really care about whether we had

664
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: a hit right away. I mean, I don't think anybody

665
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: at the rec company thought this album was going to be.

666
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: They loved the record, but they didn't naturally think it

667
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: was going to be a huge success. We were hoping

668
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: for a couple hundred thousand records at best that would

669
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: be great. But I thought it was going to be

670
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: kind of like a campfire where we all got to

671
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: hang out with each other, and that was actually the case,

672
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: like we did. I met all those bands back then

673
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: at barbecues over our A and R Guys house. The

674
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: first record actually ended up being on was Maria mckey's record.

675
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: She was on the label too, and I got to

676
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: go sing on her record at the time, and the

677
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: Jayhawks were in her band, so I got to know

678
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 1: those guys too, and they ended up they and Maria

679
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: do all the background vocals that I don't do on

680
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 1: August on the first record, either the background vocals are

681
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: me or they're Maria McKee or the Jayhawks, And you know,

682
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: we all you know, I knew Kurt and the guys

683
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: in Nirvana and Sonic Youth, and you know, they were

684
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: all really nice to me. We were all very different musically,

685
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: but that didn't seem to matter. We were all like

686
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: and that tends to not matter among musicians. They don't

687
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: really tend to be about I'm about this kind of music.

688
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 1: People tend to be about, yes, I'm about this kind

689
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: of music, but musicians just tend to like music. And

690
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: that was my experience then too, is that it was

691
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: just a lot of great indie rock musicians who we

692
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,479
Speaker 1: got to hang out with and it was really cool.

693
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: I know.

694
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 7: These are kind of the basic questions you probably get

695
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 7: in a lot of interviews, but they're the ones that

696
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 7: I love. And it's stuff like who were your influences

697
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 7: growing up? Like what were the bands that you listened

698
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 7: to when you were a kid?

699
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: Well, it was a bunch of different kinds of stuff,

700
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: you know. I grew up in Oakland, you know, and

701
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: Oakland was really a big funk in soul Town. So

702
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: early on there was a lot of like earth Wind

703
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: and Fire, the Commodore's p funk. But at the same time,

704
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: the radio station I listened to at the time growing up,

705
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: Kasan played everything. You know, they were really free form radio,

706
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: so you could hear, you know, the earth Wind and Fire,

707
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: followed by George Jones country music, maybe a little bit

708
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: of Miles Davis and then sex Pistols. You know, it

709
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: would they would play anything, so I kind of grew

710
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: up listening to everything. So at the same time as

711
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 1: I was really into Earth Wind and Fire, I was

712
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: really into Elvis Costello and Joe Jackson and you know,

713
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: all the kind of like new wave and early punk stuff.

714
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: It was kind of like a real melting pot for

715
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 1: me listening musically, you know. I certainly loved a lot

716
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: of bands like Well the Band. I don't know that

717
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 1: Dylan was the thing early on, but I got really

718
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: into going through like the Rolling Stone Record Guide and

719
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: looking for five Star records and then buying them to

720
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: teach myself about music.

721
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 6: You know.

722
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 1: I remember when I first bought it, the pictures in

723
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: there were all five Star records, So I remember getting

724
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 1: Al Green's Let's Stay Together because it was a picture

725
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: in there, and being floored by that and this Lightton

726
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: Hopkins record, you know, and I was just really into

727
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 1: like trying to educate myself. At one point I went

728
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: one by one and bought all the Rolling Stones records,

729
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: like at the US shop in Berkeley and listened to

730
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: them from the beginning, you know, England's newest hit makers,

731
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: all the way up through I guess Tattoo you came up,

732
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: came out my senior year in high school. You know,

733
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: I just kind of was really obsessed with music and

734
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: obsessed with like learning all I could about it. I

735
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: loved El Fitzgerald.

736
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 2: Did you have a particular moment, I mean, was it

737
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 2: with Connen Crozer? Does it predate that where you feel

738
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 2: like you found your voice as a musician as a songwriter.

739
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: Well, it started when I wrote songs, because before that,

740
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: you know, I like to sing, and I really loved music.

741
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: I was pretty obsessed with it, but I didn't know

742
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: where to go with that. I mean, I guess you

743
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 1: could go be in musicals, but that wasn't really the

744
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: center of our culture anymore. It didn't seem like and

745
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 1: I didn't really like, you know, I acted when I

746
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: was younger. I was a young conservatory at ACT in

747
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: San Francisco, but I didn't really love it. I like performing,

748
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: but it just wasn't me. And when I was a

749
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 1: freshman in college, I wrote my first song and that

750
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: sort of changed everything.

751
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 7: You know.

752
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: It was like a bell or like a light switch

753
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: going off in my head, you know, like, oh, I'm

754
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 1: a songwriter. And that was like, I mean the hardest

755
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: thing about shifting from childhood to adulthood is how you

756
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: identify yourself. You know, we're kids. We do things that

757
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: we're told to do and then we go around, but

758
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: as far as accomplishing anything, it's mostly stuff that people

759
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: tell us to do. You know, you guys worked really young,

760
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 1: so it's different for you. But you know, you got

761
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: your homework and you'd like to meet girls, and those

762
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: are kind of the two things of life. And you

763
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: start to get into college and into being an adult,

764
00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, what's going to happen with the

765
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: rest of my life when it's choices that I get

766
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 1: to make for mysel for myself, And that's a pretty

767
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: confusing moment. And I remember like being in I think

768
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: a chemistry class, and you know, my sister was still

769
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: at home. My mother was off in medical school, so

770
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: my sister was home alone with my dad. She was

771
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: sixteen or fifteen, and it's a that's a pretty you know,

772
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: difficult time in a girl's life. Things are changing, and

773
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: you know, she was struggling with me being gone and

774
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: my mom being gone. And I wrote this song. I

775
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: started humming to myself in class, and I hummed this

776
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: melody and I wrote these lyrics to it, songs called

777
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: good Morning, Little Sister. I got out of class and

778
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: I had this thing written, and I'm like, well, I

779
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: went back to my dorm and there was a like

780
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 1: a lounge across the hall from my room, my freshman dorm,

781
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: and there was a piano in there, and I went

782
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 1: in there. I locked the door, and I sat down

783
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: at the piano and I, I can't really play piano,

784
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: but I know how to make a major on a

785
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: minor chord, So I like hummed the song to myself

786
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: and I poked at the piano until i'd find a

787
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: note that I was singing, and then I would try

788
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: and figure out a chord that goes with that. It

789
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: took me the whole rest of the day, like three

790
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: or four hours. The song would take fifteen minutes. Now

791
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: it's really simple. But at the end of it, I'd

792
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: written a song, you know, and it was literally like

793
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: a light bulb going off my head and I thought, oh, yeah,

794
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 1: I'm a songwriter. And I knew what I was before

795
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: any of my friends did. Like I mean, I fell

796
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: behind again when we all got out of there and

797
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: started getting jobs, because it's very hard to get a

798
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: job as a songwriter. But you know, it changed everything

799
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: in my life that day, Like that moment was the

800
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: biggest defining moment in my life because before that, I

801
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: was a kid, and then I was a songwriter, and

802
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 1: I knew that I knew what I was, what I

803
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: was going to do with my life. I didn't know

804
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: how I was going to do it, but I knew

805
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: who I was and what I was and it was

806
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: a very weird feeling, especially as it became clear how

807
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: hard that was going to be.

808
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say, because I mean, writing

809
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: is one thing, sharing it with the world and getting

810
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 2: it out there is such a struggle too.

811
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, getting anyone to hear it, you know,

812
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 1: Like I mean I was. I started school at UC Davis,

813
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: and I was there for my first couple of years,

814
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: and then I transferred down to Berkeley because all I

815
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: was doing was writing songs, and I realized, if I

816
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,439
Speaker 1: really want to do this, I have to be back

817
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: in the Bay Area. I had a lot of years

818
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: after that of trying to figure out how to get

819
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,439
Speaker 1: anyone to hear my music. But the start was moving

820
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: back to the Bay Area. But I spent you know,

821
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: almost ten years in the clubs, you know, before anything happened.

822
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: Really I was. I was eighteen when I wrote my

823
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: first song. I was twenty seven the first time anyone

824
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: from any record company came to see a band that

825
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: was in Wow twenty eight when we got signed. I

826
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: was twenty nine when the first record came out. So

827
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't like I mean, I had put

828
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 1: in years in bands, in the clubs and the barrier,

829
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: you know, which is maybe great because I feel like

830
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: I'm a eight to no or whatever, like I don't

831
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: have anything I regret that I put out in our career, Whereas,

832
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: like you know, maybe I wouldn't feel the same if

833
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: I had been releasing stuff earlier, you know, but when

834
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 1: I wasn't as ready, I guess.

835
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 7: So I have a question for you, because I was

836
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 7: obsessed with television the way it sounds like you were

837
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 7: obsessed with music. So I found a lot of my

838
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 7: music through what i'd watch on TV. And I remember

839
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,439
Speaker 7: I'd heard of you from writer obviously, but the first

840
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 7: time I really saw you was your appearance on Saturday

841
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 7: Night Live.

842
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you're going to talk about that. I

843
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 3: remember that so well.

844
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 7: I do too, and you guys just killed it. And

845
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 7: I I remember right then watching that going, oh, I

846
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 7: have to get this album, like I have to find

847
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 7: this band. Did you notice a shift in either was

848
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 7: it record sales, popularity, whatever due to that appearance on SNL.

849
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, it made our career. Yeah, without a doubt.

850
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: We and I have to give them props for this too,

851
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: because they booked us to play that show before we

852
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: were anything. Our record was, as I remember, at two

853
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: hundred and thirteen on the charts. The night we played

854
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live, we weren't even in the top two hundred.

855
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: Marcy Klein saw us open for Cracker at Irving Plaza

856
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: and Cracker we had a great show, and Cracker also

857
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 1: we'd have no career without them, pushed us back on

858
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 1: stage for an encore. Wow, you know as an opening band,

859
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: you know, which doesn't happen. And she booked us right

860
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 1: after that, or like started talking to us about booking

861
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 1: us because there were two shows. Letterman also was offering

862
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: us slots at the time, and so was Saturday Night Live.

863
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 1: And we went through a bunch of negotiation on what

864
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: we would play and who's going to play with us,

865
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 1: And it took a while and ended up Saturday Night

866
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 1: Live kind of gave us what we wanted first. But

867
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: when we played that show, we weren't even in the

868
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: top two hundred and it literally, and I know joke

869
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: about this, the record jumped forty spots a week for

870
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,879
Speaker 1: five or six weeks, so we landed at number two,

871
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: and we were at two for the next couple of years.

872
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: We never went to number one, but yeah, it was

873
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: entirely due to Saturday Night Live. And then a few

874
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,240
Speaker 1: months later that was like the first week of January

875
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: of ninety four, and we played it. Mister Jones was

876
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:41,439
Speaker 1: released on MTV the week between Christmas and New Year's

877
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 1: that year, which you don't release things during that period,

878
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 1: nobody does because there's no charts, Yeah, and so people

879
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,919
Speaker 1: avoid it, and we thought, well, what if we put

880
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: the single out then instead, like, with nothing else going

881
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: to MTV that week except our song, maybe they'll play

882
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 1: it a bunch mostly one hundred and twenty minutes the

883
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: first time it played. But you know, so my point

884
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: is like, it's not like mister Jones was a big

885
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 1: hit or something. Right, We played Saturday and Live and

886
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: we played round here first, and that kind of made

887
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: our career, you know that. Literally it was like two thirteen, one,

888
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 1: seventy one, thirty something, ninety something, fifty something, sixteen thirteen,

889
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: six two, and then we spent a couple of years

890
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: at number two after that.

891
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 3: That is just insane.

892
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't even notice it though, I mean, because

893
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: it was just record sales. It wasn't doing anything for us.

894
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: We played our first headline shows in clubs in the

895
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: Northeast the weeks after Saturday Night Live. Then we went

896
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: back to opening for Cracker, and then we were getting

897
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,760
Speaker 1: ready to go play European tour, and we played Letterman

898
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: right before we left. Uh, and while we were playing Letterman,

899
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone had called that day. I think, unless I'm

900
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: pushing all these things together, it's been a long time.

901
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: My memory is that my managers came to me Letterman

902
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: show and said, Uh, Rolling Stone wants to put you

903
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 1: on the cover. You're going to Europe next week. They're

904
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: going to send David Wilde to write the piece on

905
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: you and Mark Selliger to take the pictures, and they're

906
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: going to meet you in Paris, you know, And then

907
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 1: we went to Europe.

908
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 9: All those years of buying Rolling Stone and studying it

909
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 9: and researching it and now they're asking you to be

910
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 9: on the cover and they're going to write an article

911
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 9: about you.

912
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: And my first response was because he asked me about it,

913
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: and I said, okay, can I think about it? He

914
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,439
Speaker 1: looked at me. I'm like, okay, no, I'm sorry. Of course, yeah,

915
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: it's fine, but like, but legitimately I was scared about it.

916
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: I mean I had two minds of it as a

917
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 1: rock musician, of course, or as anyone really at that

918
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: by that time, because it wasn't really a music magazine anymore.

919
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: By that you have to say yes to being on

920
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 1: the cover Rolling Stone because they there's no point to

921
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 1: your career otherwise it's going to make you huge, you know.

922
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 1: But all I could think of was, you know, it's

923
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 1: hard to portray it nowadays because we don't really have

924
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: news stands anymore. But they used to be on every

925
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 1: corner in every major city and there'd be these racks

926
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: and Rolling Stone would be like, you know, there'd be

927
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: twenty of them up there and you could see and

928
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: whoever's on the cover, it's like your face is on

929
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: every street corner in America. And I was thinking about

930
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: what that would be like and it seemed scary to me.

931
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: It seemed like everyone will be looking at me. How

932
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: this is different from just like playing a club, you know.

933
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: I was nervous about that.

934
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 6: You know.

935
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: I was also right about that it was going to

936
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: be very strange, and it was strange for me. But

937
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,240
Speaker 1: you can't say no to that. It'd be stupid, you know. Otherwise,

938
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: why try to have a career that lasts, you know.

939
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 9: So the time that you were on Saturday Night Live,

940
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 9: the cast was Chris Farley, Norm MacDonald, Adam Sandler, David Spade,

941
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 9: just some of the most incredible comedians of all time.

942
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 3: What do you remember most about that night?

943
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:11,879
Speaker 1: Uh, it's a mixed bag. I mean, the cast was great.

944
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: They're just really nice people, all of them. I really enjoyed.

945
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: Sarah Silverman and Jennie Garoppolo were on it too right then,

946
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,240
Speaker 1: but they were struggling a lot. They were really weren't

947
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 1: very good to women back then, and like I remember

948
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: hanging out at the Paramount later that night and the

949
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: two of them were just really bummed out about like

950
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: it's hard to get their stuff on the show. Yeah,

951
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,919
Speaker 1: you could make dick jokes, but you couldn't make Sarah

952
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: Silverman jokes, you know what I mean, Like she was

953
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: much more risque, and they really struggled with getting stuff

954
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: on it. But that's not the cast fault, that's the

955
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: right And we struggled a lot that week. We had

956
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: made a lot of agreements with Saturday Night Live about

957
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: what we were going to play, about playing the entire songs,

958
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 1: and they kind of went back on everything. Right, we

959
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 1: got there and changed everything we'd agreed on, and we

960
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: fought about it all week. We eventually, in the end

961
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: had to threaten to leave that afternoon.

962
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember hearing about this. It was because they

963
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 4: didn't want you to play round here?

964
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 6: Was that what?

965
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 1: They didn't want us to play it first, even though

966
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: that was the agreement, and I was very set on

967
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: that being the first song that the world heard from us,

968
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: you know, I thought it was the most important song.

969
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: And they wanted us to edit the songs down, which

970
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: we had agreed not to do because I didn't like

971
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: editing songs. And I mean, in the end, actually having

972
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: allowed us to play around Here and as well as

973
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: it went, they came back later on and asked me,

974
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: can you please cut down mister Jones right before we

975
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: were going to go play it, and so I did.

976
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 1: I think I think I cut the last verset, the

977
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 1: last double chorus in half. I don't remember exactly, but

978
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 1: I think I did think it was only fair to

979
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: do that. But it was a rough week because they

980
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 1: kept threatening out. You know, they're a big the company, NBC.

981
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 1: It's big, and that's the biggest show for bands, and

982
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: you know, they don't really have much of a hesitation

983
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: about bullying you.

984
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 7: And yeah, you're just lucky to be here, kid kind

985
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 7: of thing.

986
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,800
Speaker 1: Basically we were, but I can be very stubborn, and

987
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 1: we had a deal and we didn't. I mean, they've

988
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: never had us back, let's put it that way. But

989
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 1: the show made our career, and without a doubt, it

990
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 1: absolutely made our career, you know, like I think it.

991
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 1: I just remember very clearly the influence that had on

992
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 1: record sales in the month and a half after that.

993
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: You know, we went to play Letterman right before we

994
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 1: played Saturday Live and we played round Here again, and that,

995
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: to me is probably still our best ever television performance,

996
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: that Letterman performance. But we were great on Saturday Night Live.

997
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: We crushed it. Yeah, and I couldn't be more thankful

998
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: to them about the effect they had on our career.

999
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,919
Speaker 1: While my memories of it are pretty because I would

1000
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: have loved to enjoy Saturday Night Live too, but it

1001
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:08,359
Speaker 1: was it's a rough week, you know. It was I'm

1002
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: just this like young nobody, you know, and I I

1003
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: don't know how to deal with a network. Yeah, and

1004
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 1: like Lauren Michael's and the and I'm very scared I'm

1005
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: ruining our career. But I was also very determined to

1006
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: get our career off to the right start.

1007
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 2: Well, I think a big part of your staying power

1008
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 2: has been has been obviously the live shows and your

1009
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,879
Speaker 2: approach to live shows in particular. I mean I talked

1010
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 2: about it when we talked about mentioning Counting Crows on

1011
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 2: en Boy Meets World. I talked about, like, how my fandom,

1012
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 2: you know, it was like I like the first album whatever.

1013
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 2: But once I started seeing you guys.

1014
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,720
Speaker 4: Live, what it was for me was, Oh, every night's different.

1015
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 8: You know that that that that you allow improvisation or

1016
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 8: you you seek improvisation every night, and then you have

1017
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 8: this inner textuality with other songs riffing on you know,

1018
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 8: used to be sort of humor now at Springsteen, you know,

1019
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 8: but you were always you know, where did that come from?

1020
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: I think that people I saw growing up were that way.

1021
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 7: You know.

1022
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, Ram would play obscure Velvet

1023
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: Underground songs. Well obscure then because no Velvet Underground kind

1024
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: of disappeared. Now there are you know, icons, but at

1025
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 1: that point they were in the eighties, they were kind

1026
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 1: of a forgotten band, you know. And I got introduced

1027
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: to all this music by them, by like the big

1028
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: star songs they played. And you know, when I saw

1029
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 1: I had a lot of you know, I saw Van

1030
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 1: Marrison a few times when I was a kid. He

1031
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,800
Speaker 1: clearly improvised a lot on stage. I saw Miles Davies,

1032
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: he did the same thing.

1033
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 7: You know.

1034
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: It was a lot of music that I really liked

1035
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 1: that did that. But you know, it's also part of

1036
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: what in our minds for a lot of years, we

1037
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: associated seeing the bands we loved with music being different

1038
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: from the records, because that's what live music was. It

1039
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: wasn't until I think, really MTV came along that we

1040
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: associated seeing that people perform and hearing the record. You know,

1041
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you had Elvis movies before that kind of

1042
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 1: and you know, Beatles movies but you didn't really think

1043
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 1: of it that way, like when you thought about going

1044
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: to a concert, it was going to be different and

1045
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: you look forward to that, you know. But the MTV

1046
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: kind of trained us in a lot of ways to

1047
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: think we could watch the band and it would be

1048
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: exactly the same as we were listening. And that's nothing

1049
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 1: wrong with that. There are people who do it really well.

1050
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 1: And I guess there was TV too, now that I

1051
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: think about it, At Sullivan and most people you were

1052
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 1: lip syncing, So it did exist before MTV, but that

1053
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 1: was on TV, you know. I don't know. Maybe my

1054
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: theory doesn't really work. I like it. It's an interesting one,

1055
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 1: damn it. The mistake I made right now was calling

1056
00:53:59,239 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 1: myself on that.

1057
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 4: You should have just let it out.

1058
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: Person who should point out you're wrong is yourself. I

1059
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 1: don't know. I grew up thinking that's what music was,

1060
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,399
Speaker 1: you know, and I really liked that, and so when

1061
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:17,800
Speaker 1: I started to play music, it wasn't like it actually

1062
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 1: wasn't right when I started to play music. The very

1063
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: first gig of our first tour, we drove up the tour.

1064
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 1: We were going to be opening for Suade, and the

1065
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: middle band was the Cranberry's. They ended up blowing up

1066
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 1: midway through that tour, but Swade was the headliner and

1067
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: we were the third band. And the first gig we

1068
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: played was that the Town Pump in Vancouver, and I

1069
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: think it was just Cranberry's that night, and we drove

1070
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:45,839
Speaker 1: all the way up from Berkeley, twenty four hour drive

1071
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: up from Berkeley, and that afternoon before the show, we

1072
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 1: did sound check and then we went a few of

1073
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: us went over to the Lake Victoria and we were

1074
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 1: sort of looking at the shores of the lake. It

1075
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: was pretty and we were just trying to figure out

1076
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 1: what to do before the show. And I turned to

1077
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 1: like the guys who were there in the band. I

1078
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: think it was Charlie and I don't remember who else

1079
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 1: was there, Dan maybe, and I'm like, hey, when we

1080
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 1: get done with the solo, the guitar solo and mister Jones,

1081
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:21,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go like this and everybody come down and

1082
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 1: they said why, I'm like, I don't know, I'm gonna

1083
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: do something. What are you gonna do? I don't know,

1084
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: Just follow me. It's gonna be cool, you know, I'll try,

1085
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 1: you know, And it was just like they all looked

1086
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 1: at me like okay, well all right, let's try it.

1087
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 1: And then we did it that night and it was great,

1088
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 1: and like, you know, we're the opening of three bands,

1089
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: and we start playing these shows where we're like taking

1090
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 1: the songs apart in the middle. Yeah, and you know,

1091
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 1: you only have a half hour set, so you can

1092
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,839
Speaker 1: only play a few songs. But we started doing these

1093
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 1: ten minute versions of like Ranking in a thirty minute

1094
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 1: set or around here. Later. I don't remember how soon

1095
00:55:58,360 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 1: we started doing around here, because I know it started

1096
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 1: with Ranking, you know, and people sat up and took notice,

1097
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: you know, and people got, oh, this is really cool,

1098
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 1: you know, because especially the people that are seeing you

1099
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 1: at that point either have sought you out because they

1100
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 1: have the record and they're really interested, or they're just

1101
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: like indie music fans because they're there ce Suaye, you know,

1102
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: and they're in a club, you know. And nobody's complained

1103
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 1: about it until the next summer when we were huge,

1104
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 1: and the fans that came in were like, play mister Jones,

1105
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 1: that's all, and.

1106
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 4: Make it sound exactly the same album tricks, right.

1107
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I still think we get a lot of

1108
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 1: complaints still, I mean not a lot, but like, you know,

1109
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:44,320
Speaker 1: I'll be looking through the the mentions and the stuff

1110
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 1: on Instagram after shows and they'll there'll be someone every

1111
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: once in a while who's like, they just ruined song

1112
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:56,760
Speaker 1: after songs tonight. How are we supposed to sing along

1113
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 1: if he doesn't even know how the song goes? First

1114
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 1: thought is, don't worry about singing along. I can do

1115
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 1: it better than you, right, But you know, I understand

1116
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: enjoying singing along at shows. You know, when I go

1117
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,399
Speaker 1: when I go to see Dashboard Confessional, my friend Chris's band,

1118
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 1: the entire audience sings along the whole time and it's awesome.

1119
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I my songs.

1120
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: Aren't as They're not like, I don't know why they're

1121
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: They're just different in that Well maybe it's just that

1122
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 1: I'm screwing them up. It could be that too.

1123
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 2: When the ground, I mean, I think that you know

1124
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 2: that that live quality that's sort of like, oh, every

1125
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 2: night is going to be a little different where we

1126
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 2: don't know, you're you're having an experience, you're discovering the

1127
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 2: song live. That I mean, that was what always attracted

1128
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 2: me to you guys, you know, and I think that, yeah,

1129
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 2: you're going to lose some people.

1130
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 4: But I think, you know, it's it's worked out. You know,

1131
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 4: you guys are still here.

1132
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think you're right, and it's like

1133
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 1: something is working because it's thirty years on and plenty

1134
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 1: of people came to shows this summer. You know, we

1135
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 1: played sixty shows this summer and there's a lot of

1136
00:57:58,480 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 1: people there.

1137
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 9: We were in the same places you once. Yeah, we

1138
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 9: were in Raleigh, North Carolina the same night you guys

1139
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 9: were in Raleigh, and we found out you were doing

1140
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 9: a show walking distance from where we were, and we

1141
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 9: tried to get in at the last second and not

1142
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 9: a ticket to be found.

1143
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 3: I couldn't get couldn't get in.

1144
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: Oh, you were at the convention. Yeah, yeah, I remember

1145
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 1: that day because Chris went over to the convention because

1146
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: he's seriously geeky too, and Kaba went over to the

1147
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 1: convention to sort of geek out with people, you know,

1148
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 1: Star Wars, Star Trek. Really, he's really into that. Like

1149
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: last was it last year? I think it was last year.

1150
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: Chris called me and he said, I'm coming up to

1151
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 1: New York for a weekend. I'm doing this thing. I

1152
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: don't know if you want to go with us. And

1153
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, what is it. He goes, well, it's a

1154
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 1: little embarrassing, but you know, you know me, And I'm like, yeah,

1155
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 1: what is it? He goes, We're going to a podcast.

1156
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: We're going to a Star Trek podcast. Really, all right,

1157
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 1: I'll come with you him and his brother and we

1158
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: all went. It was this podcast called the Greatest Generation

1159
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: and they go every podcast they go through a different

1160
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: episode starting I don't think they did the original Star Trek.

1161
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: I think they started with the Next Generation and they're

1162
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 1: going theoretically going through all the shows, but they have

1163
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: these live ones where they just do the movies. Okay,

1164
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 1: So we went to one of the live ones at

1165
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 1: the Bell what's that place in the Bellhouse in Brooklyn,

1166
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: and we saw we went to hang out with these

1167
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: We went and talked to the guys and hang out

1168
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: with them and had a few beers, and then they

1169
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: did their podcast on Star Trek four, which was my

1170
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: favorite of the old Star Trek movies. Great movie The

1171
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: Whales and the twentieth Century San Francisco.

1172
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 6: Yep, so.

1173
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, great movie. So they did this hysterical podcast

1174
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 1: on it. Me and Chris went to it with his

1175
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: brother and it was awesome and I you know, so yeah.

1176
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 1: I remember that day because Chris there was like a

1177
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: tunnel that connected actually through the basement to the convention

1178
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 1: to our gig, and they went to it.

1179
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 9: We just crashed it.

1180
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 7: We would have crashed it if we could.

1181
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 1: We tried.

1182
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 9: We walked by, we stood outside for a little bit,

1183
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:19,920
Speaker 9: listened to a little bit of the music, and left.

1184
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 3: We tried to get in, but we just couldn't.

1185
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 1: We don't have each other's numbers anymore.

1186
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 4: No, I texted.

1187
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 2: I texted Emmy because I'm still in touch with Emmy,

1188
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 2: So I texted him and he was like, let me try,

1189
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:29,560
Speaker 2: let me try.

1190
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 8: But then it was like five minutes before the show

1191
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 8: was like.

1192
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 1: Emberdn't come to Ah. I wish I'd known. I would

1193
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: have absolutely worked it out to get you guys in.

1194
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: That's a shame.

1195
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 3: I have another industry question for you.

1196
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 9: The biggest story this month has been the surprising resurgence

1197
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 9: of Creed from the Texas Rangers championing them through the

1198
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 9: World Series and now they've reunited for a tour and

1199
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 9: it seems like they have like the perfect amount of

1200
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:57,439
Speaker 9: camp and nostalgia going into the next year.

1201
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:01,439
Speaker 3: So my question for you is creep get a bad rap?

1202
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 1: Well, I think yeah, I mean, there's no such thing

1203
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 1: as anything but that. Look, I mean, we're just it

1204
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 1: doesn't matter whether you're a big Creed fan or not.

1205
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 1: Somebody is and they enjoy the music, you know, like

1206
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 1: they enjoy the music. And people like music because they

1207
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 1: like music, you know, and they should be able to

1208
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 1: enjoy that music. It's really dumb to me this thing

1209
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: we do where our you know, music's different from other

1210
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 1: art forms that we literally wear it on our chests, right, yeah,

1211
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 1: you know, although this is a fresh pinch shirt, so

1212
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,439
Speaker 1: maybe it's actually maybe it's actually a TV show show.

1213
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 3: You correct yourself way too much at them.

1214
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 7: Just go with it.

1215
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like we define ourselves by the

1216
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,320
Speaker 1: music we like in ways we don't with other art forms.

1217
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 7: And and.

1218
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: And then we put down other people for the music

1219
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: they like. And it just seems so silly to me.

1220
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 1: It's just whether their music is great or not, whether

1221
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:00,439
Speaker 1: the band is like howe, we have to stratify who's

1222
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 1: the best. There's still some guy who was sitting at

1223
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 1: home in his bedroom writing these songs that meant something

1224
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 1: to him, right, and he chose to express himself in

1225
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 1: that way, and so he did, and the way the media,

1226
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 1: like Lynch mobs certain bands and then everybody else jumps

1227
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 1: on it too. I watched this documentary a little while

1228
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: ago about the Begs, you know, and.

1229
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 3: It was.

1230
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 1: So good, and you know, there there were such a

1231
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 1: huge influential band, meshing different kinds of music and making

1232
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: this incredible like music out of it. The disco music

1233
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:39,440
Speaker 1: was so good and and then that became this thing

1234
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 1: that divided people, and you realize, like they One of

1235
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 1: the great things in that movie was they did an

1236
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 1: interview with one of the ushers at Kimiski Park where

1237
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:49,920
Speaker 1: they had to burn the disco record celebration, and that

1238
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 1: people are bringing in records that he's like, this isn't

1239
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 1: a disco record, this is a soul It's like Stevie Wonder,

1240
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's and he realized that, Oll, it's not

1241
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: really just about disco. It's about black meat music and

1242
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 1: gay music and everything that was sort of like not

1243
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 1: cool for white guys in middle of I don't know what,

1244
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 1: but the Beg's Meanwhile, we're off on the biggest tour

1245
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:13,920
Speaker 1: in the world. They get home and they realize no

1246
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 1: one nots to ever hear anything from you again. You know,

1247
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 1: like you're You've gone from being the biggest band bar

1248
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: none in the world to anathema, like no one even

1249
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 1: wants to like admit to liking you ever again, and

1250
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 1: that's kind of the end of their career, which sucks.

1251
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 1: I mean, that's so stupid, and it's just it has

1252
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 1: to do a lot with what radio does, which is

1253
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 1: play it until you're sick of it. And that's part

1254
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 1: of what happens. You know, radio plays till you are

1255
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 1: sick of it, and you have no control over that.

1256
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 1: The best possible situation is that they play you, and

1257
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 1: the worst possible situation is they play you too much,

1258
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 1: and then.

1259
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 6: You know.

1260
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:52,120
Speaker 1: But I was sort of I'd forgotten about all that

1261
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,360
Speaker 1: when it happened, and it was appalling to watch it

1262
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 1: again and see what a lynch mob it was. Yeah,

1263
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 1: you know, and uh, how to disupport that.

1264
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 7: Is because we were a television show. We hear from

1265
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 7: our fans all the time. We grew up with you.

1266
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 7: It's super important to us and it meant something in

1267
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,960
Speaker 7: our childhood, so very briefly bringing it to television, did

1268
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 7: you have a Boy Meets World in your life. Was

1269
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 7: there a show you grew up watching that was really

1270
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 7: important to you?

1271
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there were lots. I mean the ones

1272
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 1: that stick out the most in my mind were like

1273
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 1: All in the Family when I was a kid, it

1274
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 1: was really and the Jeffersons, they were really like, you know,

1275
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 1: good Time, those those sitcoms, the Norman Lear Ones, Mary

1276
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 1: Tyler Moore Show, you know, those were so brilliant and

1277
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 1: so like culture changing to me at the time. And

1278
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 1: then soon after that, I got really obsessed with Hill

1279
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 1: Street Blues, you know, and and the beginning of his shows,

1280
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 1: which are so many good shows that Stephen Boschko made,

1281
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: and such a huge influence on everything after that too,

1282
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:09,520
Speaker 1: you know, like television changes massively because of those shows

1283
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 1: and specifically Hill Street Blues.

1284
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 6: You know.

1285
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 1: And then but the other thing that really hit me

1286
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 1: after that was Ken Burns. I still think in a

1287
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 1: lot of ways is my favorite filmmaker, you know, and

1288
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 1: that he made I guess they're movies, but they were

1289
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 1: all made for TV. You know, the Statue of Liberty,

1290
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 1: one that features Carolyn Fourchet, who was the poet I

1291
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: was reading when I wrote my first song and had

1292
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: a huge influence you know, that Civil War documentary. Later on,

1293
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 1: the Jazz and the Baseball ones, which were so powerful

1294
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 1: to me, you know, and he just continued making them

1295
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 1: for years and years still to this day. Their brilliant work.

1296
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 1: The Vietnam one is incredible, Pat too. Yeah, the Prohibition

1297
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: one's really good. It's a little briefer, but it's really good.

1298
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 1: Jack Johnson one had a big effect on me because

1299
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 1: it becomes part of the beginning of Palisades Park, which

1300
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 1: is about Jack Johnson's fight with Jim Jeffreys in Reno

1301
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:05,160
Speaker 1: in whatever that was nineteen hundred and nineteen ten, you know,

1302
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 1: like that's the beginning of Palisades Park. Yeah, those shows

1303
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 1: were really really big to me. You know, it changes

1304
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 1: weirdly when we go on tour because then I just

1305
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:20,440
Speaker 1: for a few years, it's almost impossible to see anything.

1306
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 1: Until I made friends who gave me, Like Nev Campbell,

1307
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 1: I told her I really wanted to see Party of

1308
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:29,040
Speaker 1: Five because I hadn't seen it and I heard it

1309
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 1: was really great, and she got me the She had

1310
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:37,000
Speaker 1: the studio print all of them up on VHS tapes

1311
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 1: and gave me like three boxes of podcast and they

1312
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 1: did the same thing for me for the X Files

1313
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 1: and we would watch them in the back of the

1314
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 1: bus on tour.

1315
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 3: You know, that's amazing.

1316
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 9: I wonder if she had to pay like five hundred

1317
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:51,960
Speaker 9: dollars to get me, had to pay at the end

1318
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 9: of the season, Adam. Believe it or not, we would

1319
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:56,520
Speaker 9: work on the show all season, and then at the

1320
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 9: end of the season, they would say, for the lolow

1321
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 9: price of like three hundred and eighty dollars, you can

1322
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 9: have a copy of each episode you did on these

1323
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 9: VHS tapes. And we would pay the money and we'd

1324
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 9: get them on VHS.

1325
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 1: That's not that they really get you, coming and gone.

1326
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 1: I mean right, that's how they get you.

1327
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 4: That's how they get you.

1328
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 9: Disney.

1329
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, it's like those studios. It's like there's so

1330
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 1: much You realize that too when you're in a band.

1331
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 1: Once you start working with a movie or a TV show,

1332
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 1: there's just so much more money involved and therefore so

1333
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 1: many more executives, and therefore it cost them less to

1334
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 1: just sick a lawyer at you for something. It's just

1335
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 1: like it ends up always being I love having my

1336
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 1: music in movies and on TV, but it's always a

1337
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 1: bit of a chore. And a headache because you got

1338
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 1: to defend yourself the whole way through it.

1339
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 9: Yep, that's exactly right. My last question for you, you

1340
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 9: guys have been on the road NonStop lately. What can

1341
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 9: fans expect from Counting Crows in the future. And do you,

1342
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 9: you know, need anybody to jump on stage with you

1343
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 9: like I did thirty years ago and.

1344
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 3: Then just you know, dance on stage.

1345
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 1: We always need that. We haven't done it much in

1346
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 1: a while, just with the other bands, but yeah, we

1347
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:05,919
Speaker 1: used to do that with hanging around and everybody.

1348
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 3: We all jumped up, We all jumped up there.

1349
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:08,960
Speaker 7: You know.

1350
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 1: That's kind of based on the fact that we had

1351
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 1: all our friends in the studio clapping on that song.

1352
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 1: Originally it was everybody at the house recording on it,

1353
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: I mean clapping when we did the song. Uh, I mean,

1354
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 1: I'm writing a few songs. I was just working last

1355
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 1: night to get the second half of the suite done.

1356
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 1: I think hopefully we'll get recording later this year. And

1357
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:31,599
Speaker 1: then we were just talking the last couple of days

1358
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:34,920
Speaker 1: about going out this coming summer and whether to do

1359
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:38,599
Speaker 1: it or not and how to do it, and I mean,

1360
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 1: ablell just keep doing what we're doing. I guess it

1361
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:43,160
Speaker 1: seems to be working and I don't really have any

1362
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:50,000
Speaker 1: other employment. Surprised how little there is out there for

1363
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:51,960
Speaker 1: aging rock and rollers.

1364
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:52,200
Speaker 4: You know.

1365
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 9: Well, we would love to make it out to a

1366
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 9: show and and we'll invite Will along this time.

1367
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 7: Will, I'd like to come again.

1368
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 1: Writer.

1369
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:05,600
Speaker 7: Writer especially uh brought your band into my life. I

1370
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 7: tried to reciprocate with my my growing up band, which

1371
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 7: is Who's Gerdo. I've tried over and over. So I'm

1372
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 7: trying to get more Bob Mulled into their lives as

1373
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 7: much as I can. It's amazing, it's amazing. So but

1374
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 7: they then Writer introduced me to Counting Crows and it's

1375
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:23,680
Speaker 7: been Uh. It was a great, great addition to my

1376
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:24,719
Speaker 7: my musical career.

1377
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 1: So I loved it.

1378
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 7: One more one more, very very very very brief thing.

1379
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:30,120
Speaker 7: Writer used to tell me back in the day, you

1380
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:32,640
Speaker 7: made a hell of a set of ribs using was

1381
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:33,799
Speaker 7: it Doctor Pecker?

1382
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:34,680
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1383
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, So I'm gonna need that recipe at some point.

1384
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 1: I don't. I haven't done the Dr Pepper part of

1385
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 1: the recipe in a long time. It's really good, though,

1386
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:45,400
Speaker 1: because the idea was that since you don't have a smoker.

1387
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: You boil it a bit before you do the the grill.

1388
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:53,040
Speaker 1: I have been working on my ribs over the years,

1389
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:55,640
Speaker 1: tried coming up with an oven version, and I've been

1390
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 1: I have not re included the doctor pepper part yet.

1391
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:01,519
Speaker 1: I've just been cooking it in the oven. But I

1392
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:03,600
Speaker 1: will say I got that recipe from Gibby Haynes of

1393
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 1: the Butthole. Surfers used to have barbecues on sunset on

1394
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 1: Sundays in front of the Viper Room when I was

1395
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 1: martining there, and so Gibby taught me to make the

1396
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: doctor Pepper ribs. We did it on Sunset Boulevard in

1397
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:17,880
Speaker 1: front of the Viper Room.

1398
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:21,760
Speaker 4: That's the only time I've ever had crawfish was at here.

1399
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:22,000
Speaker 1: Please.

1400
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 4: You had to crawfish boil once, and I remember that.

1401
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:27,560
Speaker 4: I have done Mart's cracking the heads. Oh yeah, I

1402
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:29,759
Speaker 4: tried it. I'll never do it again.

1403
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 7: I want the ribs. I want the rib recipe. Yeah

1404
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:32,840
Speaker 7: that's awesome.

1405
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 1: Well, Adam, I'll figure out how to do it.

1406
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:38,800
Speaker 9: Thank you so much for taking time out of your

1407
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:41,599
Speaker 9: day and joining us. And you know it goes without

1408
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:44,599
Speaker 9: saying how important you were in writer's life. Throughout the nineties,

1409
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:47,520
Speaker 9: but also just to all of us, and it's an

1410
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 9: honor to have gone through the nineties right alongside you.

1411
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 9: We all celebrated our thirtieth anniversary this year, you with

1412
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:55,639
Speaker 9: August and everything after in us with Boy Meets World.

1413
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 9: And it's really nice that we're both still here and

1414
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:03,439
Speaker 9: able to talk about the the impact that we had

1415
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:05,280
Speaker 9: on people and still doing what we love to do.

1416
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:06,720
Speaker 3: So thank you for being here with us.

1417
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:08,920
Speaker 1: It's so nice to see you guys again. I have

1418
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:10,600
Speaker 1: to say, it's really great to see all of you.

1419
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:11,839
Speaker 1: Thank pleasure.

1420
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:14,320
Speaker 3: It was really nice seeing you. Hopefully we'll see you soon.

1421
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:15,479
Speaker 1: Thanks you guys.

1422
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:17,639
Speaker 3: Thanks Adam, Bye bye bye.

1423
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 1: Wow. So cool. Such a nice guy.

1424
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 3: What a great dude.

1425
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, always has been the nicest guy.

1426
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 6: You know.

1427
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 2: It's it's it's so funny when somebody is like, you know,

1428
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 2: writing songs for their tortured constantly.

1429
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, but then you actually talked to him.

1430
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:45,599
Speaker 7: He's pretty happy, pretty nice.

1431
01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:48,160
Speaker 4: I'm sure he has his down moments, but those are

1432
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 4: the moments that he writes the songs about. But you know,

1433
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 4: for the most part, life is good.

1434
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:51,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1435
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:53,920
Speaker 9: Well, and he'd like he talked about you know, he

1436
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 9: understands why people relate to it so much, even though

1437
01:11:57,320 --> 01:11:59,840
Speaker 9: it seems like, you know, when you hear of some

1438
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 9: be talking about because we talk about it in the

1439
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 9: movie industry all the time or the TV industry where

1440
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 9: it's like let's do a let's do a story about

1441
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 9: a famous person, you go, well, that's not relatable. But

1442
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:16,759
Speaker 9: the actual struggle of fame and life changing those things

1443
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 9: are actually super relatable and so exactly like you said,

1444
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 9: where he wrote songs about a very specific sliver of

1445
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 9: his life that he was willing to let you in on,

1446
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:28,519
Speaker 9: and it happened to be aspects of life that everyone

1447
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:29,160
Speaker 9: can relate to.

1448
01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:30,599
Speaker 3: It's just it's really interesting.

1449
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1450
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 8: I also just love hearing you know, it's like for

1451
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:36,800
Speaker 8: you know, doing music for ten years before you have

1452
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 8: that moment.

1453
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:39,400
Speaker 4: But of course, as far as the world is concerned,

1454
01:12:39,439 --> 01:12:40,599
Speaker 4: you're an overnight success.

1455
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 3: That happened.

1456
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 4: No, that's never the case. Whenever you hear about an

1457
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 4: overnight success, there is probably ten years of struggle. Now,

1458
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 4: when you're talking about child actors, that's a little different.

1459
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 4: You can't you can't just be sitting on a porch

1460
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:55,640
Speaker 4: somewhere and somebody finds you. But that doesn't happen musically now,

1461
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 4: it doesn't happen.

1462
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:58,880
Speaker 2: It doesn't happen almost in any other capacity, Like it's

1463
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 2: really specifically too kid actors. But yeah, I've always thought

1464
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:04,160
Speaker 2: about that, like you know how much. And also just

1465
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 2: like it's so interesting to hear about there's so especially

1466
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 2: with rock and roll or music in general, there's so

1467
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 2: much glamor and excitement and but the reality is like

1468
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:15,479
Speaker 2: the day to day life of being a musician is

1469
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:16,639
Speaker 2: so much work.

1470
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:20,400
Speaker 3: Like toy now, I mean, and we're little tour we're doing.

1471
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 1: Can you imagine being on tour for nine months a

1472
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 1: year the mad scene.

1473
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 4: No, And if you're like the lead singer or the

1474
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:28,599
Speaker 4: lead musician, you're doing every every night.

1475
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:29,960
Speaker 8: It just takes so much energy.

1476
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:32,200
Speaker 7: And yeah, I couldn't imagine but him just going and

1477
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 7: not even really knowing how to play the piano, but

1478
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:36,600
Speaker 7: going in picking out the notes and then going, oh,

1479
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 7: I'm a songwriter. I mean that's amazing to me.

1480
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:39,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's in credit.

1481
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:41,639
Speaker 8: I've never heard that story. It's really cool.

1482
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:42,719
Speaker 3: I love it, very cool.

1483
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:45,080
Speaker 9: Well, thank you all for joining us for this episode

1484
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 9: of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us

1485
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:49,720
Speaker 9: on Instagram, Pod Meets World Show. You can send us

1486
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:52,040
Speaker 9: your emails Pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com

1487
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 9: and we have merch missed the march and me pod

1488
01:13:57,280 --> 01:13:58,680
Speaker 9: Meets Worldshow dot com.

1489
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:01,360
Speaker 3: Thank you all for joining us writer send us out.

1490
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:03,599
Speaker 1: We love you all. Pod dismissed.

1491
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:08,679
Speaker 2: Podmeets World is an iHeart podcast producer hosted by Danielle Fischel,

1492
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 2: Wilfridell and Ryder Strong executive producers, Jensen Karp and Amy

1493
01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:16,200
Speaker 2: Sugarman Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor,

1494
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:18,440
Speaker 2: Tara Subasch, producer, Mattie.

1495
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:21,280
Speaker 4: Moore engineer and Boy Meets World Superman Easton Allen. Our

1496
01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:24,439
Speaker 4: theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us

1497
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:27,360
Speaker 4: on Instagram at Podmets World Show or email us at

1498
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 4: Podmeats World Show at gmail dot com