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Speaker 1: Part of the reason the CFPB has been targeted is

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Speaker 1: because you have big tech conglomerates that are looking to

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Speaker 1: get into banking, lending and payments, and they don't even

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Speaker 1: want a minor speed bump in that process. Mister musk

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk he has stated they want twitter x to

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Speaker 1: become a bank, the ability to move and track payments

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Speaker 1: across its platforms, and I think that it's reasonable for

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Speaker 1: Americans to wonder why is he targeting this little agency.

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Speaker 4: Today's guest is from One Angle, a hero to millions

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Speaker 4: of people for returning billions of dollars to consumers as

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Speaker 4: the director former director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

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Speaker 4: To Jamie Diamond, he's an arrogant, out of touch soob

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Speaker 4: to billionaires like Mark Zuckerberg and Mark Andresen.

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Speaker 5: He's a vile threat to the American Republic.

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Speaker 4: He is Roehit Chopra, former head of the CFP, former

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Speaker 4: FTC commissioner, pushed out recently by Donald Trump.

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Speaker 5: Welcome rowhead, great to be with you. So let's start.

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Speaker 4: We have a lot to get through, because there has

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Speaker 4: been a lot thrown your way in at the way

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Speaker 4: of the CFPB. But let's start with Jamie Diamond, who,

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Speaker 4: as we just put up there during a town hall

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Speaker 4: with his own banking employees, just utterly unleashed on you.

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Speaker 5: Again, out of touch son of a gun.

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Speaker 4: Except he didn't say gun the family program, So we'll

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Speaker 4: stick with gun. Why why is Jamie Diamond so angry

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Speaker 4: at you?

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know exactly. I probably have some Well

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Speaker 1: I get it. This is an extremely emotional time for

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Speaker 1: him and others. One of President Trump's first set of

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Speaker 1: remarks at Davos, actually he called out Jamie Diamond and

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Speaker 1: Brian moynihan, the CEO of Bank of America by name.

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Speaker 1: The issue of de banking, deplatforming is one that has

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Speaker 1: really cut across lines. And also there's some real questions about,

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Speaker 1: you know, the lawsuit that we brought against JP, Morgan

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Speaker 1: Chase and other banks for allowing fraud to fester on Zell.

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Speaker 1: I think that lawsuit will We'll let it work through

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Speaker 1: the courts. But there's some questions about whether the new

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Speaker 1: CFPB will simply defund all of its investigations against big

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Speaker 1: banks and big tech companies. And that's really an open

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Speaker 1: one for all of us.

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Speaker 4: There was also something about Jamie Diamond didn't like something

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Speaker 4: you guys were pushing about letting people move their money

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Speaker 4: from one bank to another.

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Speaker 5: What was that one?

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Speaker 1: Yes, some of the largest banks, and I know he

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Speaker 1: was personally very upset the idea of giving consumers the

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Speaker 1: ability to switch their accounts more seamlessly. You might remember Ryan.

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Speaker 5: To move your money movement.

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Speaker 1: Well, remember when you actually couldn't change your phone carrier's

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Speaker 1: right unless you switched to your phone number. And the

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Speaker 1: FCC issued an order saying, no, let's give consumers a

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Speaker 1: little bit more power to vote with their feet. That's

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Speaker 1: exactly one of the laws that had been on the books.

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Speaker 1: It sat dormant, but during my time there, we wanted

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Speaker 1: to make that a reality because we saw the billions

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Speaker 1: of dollars that large banks credit card companies were able

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Speaker 1: to harvest because they create an obstacle course to switching accounts.

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Speaker 4: Ye, so you brought up de banking, So let's let's

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Speaker 4: move to that one, which is not the one I

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Speaker 4: have in here.

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Speaker 1: H one.

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Speaker 5: But let's let's start with h H two.

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Speaker 4: This is Mark Zuckerberg appearing on Joe Rogan's podcast, and

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Speaker 4: I want people to notice that when he's about to

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Speaker 4: say the word consumer, he pretends to forget the name

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Speaker 4: of the agency because it isn't helpful to him. I

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Speaker 4: think to call it the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau because

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Speaker 4: you're starting on your back foot when you're a company

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Speaker 4: that says you're against that. So let's roll H two here,

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Speaker 4: and then I want to get you to respond to

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Speaker 4: this Zuckerberg allegation.

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Speaker 6: And we had organizations that were looking into us that

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Speaker 6: were like not really involved with social media, like the CFPB,

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Speaker 6: like this financial I don't even know what it stands for.

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Speaker 6: It's the it's the financial organization that Elizabeth Warren had

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Speaker 6: set up. Oh great, And it's basically it's like, we're

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Speaker 6: not a bank.

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Speaker 7: The bank.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so we're not a bank, right, It's like like

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Speaker 6: what what does meta have to do with this? But

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Speaker 6: they kind of found some theory that they wanted to investigate,

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Speaker 6: and it's like, okay, clearly they were trying really hard,

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Speaker 6: right to like find find some theory. But it like,

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Speaker 6: I don't know, it just it kind of like throughout

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Speaker 6: the the the the the party and the government, there's

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Speaker 6: just sort of I don't know if it's I don't

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Speaker 6: know how this stuff works. I mean, I've never been

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Speaker 6: in government. I don't know if it's like a directive

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Speaker 6: or it's just like a quiet consensus that like, we

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Speaker 6: don't like these guys. They're not doing what we want.

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Speaker 5: We're gonna punish them.

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Speaker 6: But but it's uh, it's uh, it's tough to be

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Speaker 6: at the other end of that. What was it like, Well,

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Speaker 6: it's not good. I think the thing that I think

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Speaker 6: is actually the toughest is it's it's global right. So,

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Speaker 6: and really, when you think about it, the US government

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Speaker 6: should be defending its companies right, not be the tip

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Speaker 6: of the spirit attacking its companies.

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Speaker 4: All right, so Zackerbarg who later kind of implies there's

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Speaker 4: previous in this clip, he had said that because they

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Speaker 4: were getting pressure to uh censor COVID content.

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Speaker 5: Well, then all of a sudden, the CFPB comes after.

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Speaker 4: Them over, you know, which he implies as part of

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Speaker 4: this kind of pressure campaign against Facebook. So what was

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Speaker 4: CFPB's role in going after Facebook.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's actually funny in some ways because this is

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Speaker 1: a company that just about five years ago launched a

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Speaker 1: big ploy to start its own currency, to start its

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Speaker 1: own way.

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Speaker 5: What were they going to call it?

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Speaker 1: Called Libra, And what you saw was an attempt. It

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Speaker 1: was a surveillance program essentially that if they could embed

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Speaker 1: payments throughout their whole empire of digital properties, they would

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Speaker 1: be able to track payments across the board.

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Speaker 5: You're like cookies to the next degree.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and in some ways that is really what many

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Speaker 1: say is a goal to ultimately move toward personalized pricing.

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Speaker 1: And look, the truth is, if you call companies, some

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Speaker 1: of these big tech companies, we are a social media company, please,

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Speaker 1: we know that their tentacles are all over and many

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Speaker 1: have significant aspirations in banking, lending and payments. We have

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Speaker 1: seen that with Google, we have seen that with Apple,

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Speaker 1: and there are laws on the books Ryan that are

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Speaker 1: financial privacy laws. There are laws about how you can

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Speaker 1: traffic credit information like the credit bureaus do. So I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to comment on the investigation they disclosed it

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Speaker 1: to their investors the nature of it, but to suggest

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Speaker 1: that some of these companies are not engaging in some

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Speaker 1: of the same exact practices as big financial conglomerates, I

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Speaker 1: mean as laughable, I'll tell you that. This is also

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Speaker 1: I think part of the reason the CFPB has been

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Speaker 1: targeted is because you have big tech conglomerates that are

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Speaker 1: looking to get into banking, lending and payments and they

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Speaker 1: don't even want a minor speed bump in that process.

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Speaker 1: They don't even want, i think, to be held to

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Speaker 1: the same standards that when consumers are defrauded, or if

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Speaker 1: there's errors in their accounts, or if their information is

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Speaker 1: being harvested and trafficked to those overseas. I don't think

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Speaker 1: they want to even touch that. And the truth is

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Speaker 1: there's laws on the books and the job of the

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Speaker 1: CFB was to enforce it.

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Speaker 4: So this appearance came after Mark Andresen. Venture Capitalist was

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Speaker 4: also on Joe Rogan. Uh, let's let's move to uh

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Speaker 4: to Mark Andreas and one I think that's h h one.

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Speaker 8: Here we have this thing called independent federal agencies Sully

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Speaker 8: for example, with this thing called the Consumer Finance Protection

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Speaker 8: Bureau CFPB, which was the it's sort of Elizabeth Warren's

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Speaker 8: personal agency that she gets to control. And it's an

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Speaker 8: independent agency that just gets to run and do whatever

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Speaker 8: it wants. Right, And if you read the constitution, like

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Speaker 8: there is no such thing as an independent agency, and

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Speaker 8: yet there it is.

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Speaker 1: What does her agency do?

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Speaker 8: Whatever she wants?

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Speaker 1: What does it do though?

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Speaker 8: We basically terrorize financial terrorize financial institutions, prevent crypt fintech,

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Speaker 8: prevent new competition, new startups that want to compete with

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Speaker 8: a big bankery. Oh yeah, house, just terrorizing anybody who

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Speaker 8: tries to do anything new in financial services.

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Speaker 1: And can you give me an example, said, you know.

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Speaker 8: De banking. This is where a lot of the d

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Speaker 8: banking comes from, is these agencies. So d banking is

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Speaker 8: when you're you as either a person or your company

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Speaker 8: or literally kicked out of the banking system like they

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Speaker 8: did to Kanye exactly like they did the Kanye my

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Speaker 8: partner band's father has been d banked. Really, we had

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Speaker 8: an employee for what for having the wrong politics, for

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Speaker 8: saying unacceptable things under current banking regulations under okay, here's

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Speaker 8: a great here's a great thing. Under current banking regulations.

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Speaker 8: After all the reforms the last twenty years, there's now

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Speaker 8: a category called a politically exposed person PEP. And if

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Speaker 8: you were a PEP, you were required by financial regulators

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Speaker 8: to kick them off of your to kick them out

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Speaker 8: of your bank.

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Speaker 6: You're not allowed to if you're politically on the left.

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Speaker 8: That's fine because they're not politically exposed.

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Speaker 6: So no one on the left gets d banked.

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Speaker 8: Now, I have not heard of a single instance of it.

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Speaker 4: So much to unpack there. Let's start with his PEP claim.

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Speaker 4: What is a what is a politically exposed person?

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Speaker 7: Well?

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Speaker 5: There anything accurate in what he said there?

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Speaker 1: There's a lot there. First of all, a politically exposed

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Speaker 1: person certainly would be someone who's like a government official,

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Speaker 1: who for example, could be subjected to bribery other things.

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Speaker 4: But putting all all of the act completely misclassified, well,

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Speaker 4: I think.

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Speaker 1: The point though, I would say, there's a place where

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Speaker 1: I think is important, which is that when it comes

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Speaker 1: to debanking, I don't think people should ever lose their

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Speaker 1: account because of their exercising their religion speech. And I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you one of the first things I did years

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Speaker 1: ago was to put forth a stronger policy that made

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Speaker 1: it clear when that type of discrimination or debanking ran

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Speaker 1: a foul of the law. Guess who sued to block it.

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Speaker 1: It was actually the bank lobby and the Chamber of Commerce.

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Speaker 1: Then more recently, you know, we went through some court

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Speaker 1: press was there.

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Speaker 5: What's their business rationale for wanting to block that?

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Speaker 1: I have no idea other than just that they were

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Speaker 1: saying that while that only really applies to lending, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't apply to banking. And you know, we could go

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Speaker 1: through the argument about whether the law prohibits that. So

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Speaker 1: I said, Okay, we're going to propose a rule. We're

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Speaker 1: going to use a different procedure to make clear that

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Speaker 1: you cannot close someone's account or otherwise take a negative

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Speaker 1: action like that. Based on some of these core things,

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Speaker 1: we did not hear a peep a peep of support

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Speaker 1: from the big banks and others. So I think we

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Speaker 1: need to start looking at some of the facts here,

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Speaker 1: we should not allow deplatforming and debanking unless there is

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Speaker 1: some sort of legitimate reason, and I will share with

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Speaker 1: you we have heard a lot from the banks and

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Speaker 1: others about this, but what we haven't seen is them

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Speaker 1: showing their data. And one of the big places that

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Speaker 1: they are closing accounts is using algorithms, and sometimes they

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Speaker 1: might not even know the answer why they are closing

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Speaker 1: those accounts. But the idea that the CFPB was somehow,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know he's conflating a whole set of

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Speaker 1: other regulators, and we also know that there are companies

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Speaker 1: that he had invested in that were repeat offenders and

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Speaker 1: that the CFPP had to take multiple actions against, not

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Speaker 1: just by me, but even my predecessor put in place

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Speaker 1: by President Trump. So I don't know what that is,

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Speaker 1: but I think the idea that somehow, both the banks

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Speaker 1: and these fintech companies we were applying and aggressively enforcing

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Speaker 1: the law when they were egregiously violating.

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Speaker 4: Did you did you run into any progressive opposition, because

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Speaker 4: I know sometimes progressive organizations would run campaigns to say,

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Speaker 4: you know, if this this person should not actually have

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Speaker 4: access to banking services.

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Speaker 5: So did you kind of push up against.

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Speaker 1: There had been you know, it was not there was definitely.

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Speaker 1: For example, I had undertaken an initiative with respect to

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Speaker 1: greater accountability for Blackrock. Blackrock is an investment giant. I

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Speaker 1: felt that if they were going to be pursuing certain

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Speaker 1: policy goals when taking over banks, they should actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: go through the process of saying we're taking over a bank,

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Speaker 1: rather than relying on some loopholes that say, well, we're

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Speaker 1: just passive, we're not doing anything. And yeah, there maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there was others who felt, why don't we

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Speaker 1: just you know, kind of leave them alone. Maybe they

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Speaker 1: agree with the goals they're doing. My point was different,

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Speaker 1: is that it's really about power. Who should have the

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Speaker 1: power to determine what whether you're getting your account closed

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Speaker 1: because of no reason or a questionable reason, or how

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Speaker 1: they're saying they're passive but are really exerting a lot

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Speaker 1: of pressure on boards and CEOs. So I think we

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Speaker 1: got to stick to our principles, which is that the

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Speaker 1: laws on the books are supposed to prevent abuse of power.

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Speaker 1: And sure, maybe I agree with some of the maybe

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Speaker 1: I agree with some of the Blackrock voting policies on.

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Speaker 5: Share environmental stuff.

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Speaker 1: But it doesn't matter. I mean, they should still have

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Speaker 1: to go through the process that we have in place

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Speaker 1: in our laws to avoid abuse of that power, and

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Speaker 1: especially monopoly power.

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Speaker 5: So you passed a rule to bar debanking, and you've got.

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Speaker 1: We proposed one and we'll see if it gets finalized.

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Speaker 5: Oh that's an interesting point.

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Speaker 4: It's all House Republicans are actually moving to repeal it.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you've noticed this with a piece

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Speaker 4: of their legislation. So have you been Have you been

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Speaker 4: surprised to see one of the number one attacks against

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Speaker 4: the COPV being that it was doing the thing that

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Speaker 4: actually it's trying to ban.

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Speaker 1: Not really, I mean you saw even those on the

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Speaker 1: right pushback very hard on whatever that soliloquy was. That

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Speaker 1: being said. I think let's put our money where our

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Speaker 1: mouth is and say, let's all get on record across

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Speaker 1: the ideological spectrum that people should have a right to

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Speaker 1: a bank account. And we see so many people pushed

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Speaker 1: out of the banking system, and the economic impacts of

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Speaker 1: that are real now, of course, if they're engaged in

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Speaker 1: money laundering, criminal fraud, others. Sure, I mean I do

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Speaker 1: favor some updates that give people the ability to have

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Speaker 1: some access to the banking system, and many, for example,

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Speaker 1: are kicked out because of overdraft, an overdraft feed churning.

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Speaker 1: We got to make sure that people when you're when

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Speaker 1: you're kicked out of the banking system, it's almost like

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Speaker 1: kicking someone on your screw economy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So when he says that CFPB is terrorizing financial

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Speaker 4: companies and blocking FinTechs and other startups from competing with

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Speaker 4: big banks, what does he mean by that?

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Speaker 1: That's in direct conflict with what you just mentioned was

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Speaker 1: JPMorgan Chase's criticism. You know, we actually put into place

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Speaker 1: the ability for smaller players to eat the lunch of

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Speaker 1: their bigger competitors if they're providing better rates in service.

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Speaker 4: That was just because you're setting setting up a pathway

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Speaker 4: for people to leave the big.

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Speaker 1: Time switch and that was partly strongly supported by those

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Speaker 1: new firms that we're trying to do it. And look,

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Speaker 1: some of them are doing some great things that allow

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Speaker 1: you to get lower interest rates on your loans, higher

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Speaker 1: rates on your savings. Look at what some of the

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Speaker 1: banks offered. Even as the FED raised rates enormously, people's

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Speaker 1: deposit rates barely budged. And we ended up needing to

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Speaker 1: investigate some of that, including suing Capital One for cheating

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Speaker 1: people out of billions of hours. I think we'll want

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Speaker 1: to put more power in the hands of consumers for

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Speaker 1: them to fire a company with bad customer service and

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Speaker 1: to vote with their feet.

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Speaker 4: So some of the companies financed by Andrees in the

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Speaker 4: fintech space or the crypto space say that the CFPB

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Speaker 4: has prevented them from doing what they want to do?

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Speaker 5: What what? What does? What does he mean by that?

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Speaker 1: And how you respond to all I know is you

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Speaker 1: know right now? In terms of crypto, most of that

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Speaker 1: was really a confrontation with other agencies, not with the CFPB.

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Speaker 1: The place the CFPB was always looking at his new

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Speaker 1: digital payments, digital currencies, so video game platforms, you know,

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Speaker 1: things like Facebook's Libra project, where it would be used

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Speaker 1: to pay at stores or online. So we were always

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out what's the way we can create

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Speaker 1: these new digital technologies without being ruined by fraudsters, errors,

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Speaker 1: and how do you make sure there's some base level

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Speaker 1: of consumer protection that people have had on their debit

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Speaker 1: cards and credit cards for decades and on fintech companies.

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Speaker 1: I don't know I mean, certainly there have been venture

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Speaker 1: capital firms who have been annoyed that the CFPB has

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Speaker 1: taken some of their lawbreaking companies to court. And sometimes,

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Speaker 1: you know, we battle it out in court, but certainly

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Speaker 1: we prevailed in many cases. And I'll tell you many

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Speaker 1: of them are extremely well financed to fight back very hard.

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Speaker 5: Sure they are. So.

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Speaker 4: One of the arguments Mark Zuckerberg also rolled out in

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Speaker 4: that interview is that from a national security and a

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Speaker 4: kind of geopolitical perspective, the Silicon Valley and big tech

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Speaker 4: in the United States is, you know, ought to be

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Speaker 4: just defended rather than than attacked. Let's play H three here.

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Speaker 4: It gets your respond to this other Zuckerberg argument.

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Speaker 6: I think the real issue is that when the US

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Speaker 6: government does that to its tech industry, it's basically just

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Speaker 6: open season around the rest of the world, right. I

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Speaker 6: mean the EU, I pull these numbers. The EU has

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Speaker 6: fined the tech companies more than thirty billion dollars over

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Speaker 6: the last I think it was like ten or twenty years.

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Speaker 1: Holy and shit.

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Speaker 6: So when you think about it, like okay, there's it's like,

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Speaker 6: you know, one hundred million dollars here, a couple of

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Speaker 6: billion dollars there. But what I think really adds up

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Speaker 6: to is this is sort of like a kind of

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Speaker 6: EU wide policy for how they want to deal with

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Speaker 6: American tech. It's almost like a tariff, and I think

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Speaker 6: the US government basically gets to dec how are they

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Speaker 6: going to deal with that? Right because if the US government,

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Speaker 6: if some other country was screwing with another industry that

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Speaker 6: we cared about, the US government would probably find some

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Speaker 6: way to put pressure on them. But I think what

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Speaker 6: happened here is actually the complete opposite. The US government

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Speaker 6: led the kind of attack against the companies, which then

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Speaker 6: just made it like the EU is basically in all

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Speaker 6: these other places just free to just go to town on

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Speaker 6: all the American companies and do whatever you want.

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Speaker 1: What would you say to Zuckerberg there, Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: we've all gotten various forms of questions. For example, in

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Speaker 1: the past few years, we did a number of enforcement

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Speaker 1: actions against certain Japanese automakers whose lending and credit reporting

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Speaker 1: was completely botched. Now, the way we do it is

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Speaker 1: we look at consumer complaints, we'll look at where there's

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Speaker 1: actual harm, and I do think it's important for us

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Speaker 1: to prove, you know, where we finding this non compliance

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Speaker 1: But on the other hand, this is a strange comment

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Speaker 1: in some way he's made because it was actually and

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Speaker 1: I was an FTC commissioner at the time. During the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration, we had a bipartisan antitrust complaint against Facebook.

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Speaker 1: Same thing happened on Google, and those have carried forward

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Speaker 1: across administrations. And here's the reason why in the US

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Speaker 1: we want our economy progressing, not based on cheating, but

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Speaker 1: on competing. And we have found a number of cases

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Speaker 1: where big firms, whether they're domestic, whether they're foreign, have

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Speaker 1: been cornering the market or monopolizing it. And we have

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Speaker 1: laws on the books, and just because they are global conglomerates,

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Speaker 1: that does not mean they should not honor our laws.

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Speaker 1: I have to tell you, I really don't think that

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Speaker 1: all of these firms genuinely think of themselves as American companies.

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Speaker 1: I think some of them think of themselves as just

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Speaker 1: a multi national investor base. And the north star is

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Speaker 1: profit and they if they want to get rid of

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Speaker 1: laws in countries across the world, that's what they're going

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Speaker 1: to do. But to suggest that, you know, Facebook and

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Speaker 1: other big tech companies have been just so squeaky clean

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Speaker 1: when it comes to following the laws is frankly.

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Speaker 4: A joke, and so speaking of getting getting rid of

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Speaker 4: laws or ignoring them. This is Elon Musk's famous tweet

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Speaker 4: where he said, delete CFPB, there are too many duplicative

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Speaker 4: regulatory agencies. Interestingly, that was a reply to somebody who

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Speaker 4: was correcting Mark Andresen and saying, hey, man, you're wrong

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Speaker 4: about this. Actually, the CFPB is against dbanking and is

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Speaker 4: fighting it, and Musk interestingly comes in and says, basically saying, I.

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Speaker 5: Don't care like elete this and then put up H five.

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Speaker 4: The White House very quickly put out this statement saying

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Speaker 4: CFPB isn't a Wall Street regulator, it's a main street regulator,

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Speaker 4: and they are effectively trying to move to shut it down.

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Speaker 4: In their list of bill of indictments basically against them,

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Speaker 4: they list a bunch of things, and I want to

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Speaker 4: run through.

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Speaker 5: Some of them since we got you here and got

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Speaker 5: some time.

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Speaker 4: So the White House says CFPB targeted a Chicago small

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Speaker 4: business after it complained about the city's rampant crime.

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Speaker 5: That sounds bad. Why did CFPB do that.

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Speaker 1: Well, you'd have to ask President Trump CFPB director, because

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Speaker 1: she's the one who brought that case. I reviewed that case.

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Speaker 1: The case was actually a lending discrimination case or a

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Speaker 1: mortgage lender in Chicago essentially was refuse and not offering

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Speaker 1: mortgage loans to certain neighborhoods. I think the idea that

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Speaker 1: it was something about uh, I don't even know what

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Speaker 1: that bullet was saying. But what's funny is that it's

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Speaker 1: it's it has nothing to do with that bullet, and

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Speaker 1: it was brought under the last trumpet illustration. Another one

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Speaker 1: of those bullets I just noticed talks about our victims

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Speaker 1: Relief fund. During my time as director, we returned the

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Speaker 1: slush fund. And what's funny is that it's a victims

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Speaker 1: relief fund. During my time, we collected I think nine

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Speaker 1: billion dollars in refunds and penalties. And here's how it works.

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Speaker 1: The penalties paid by companies like Apple, Goldman, Sachs, Wells Fargo.

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Speaker 1: They go to compensate victims where the defendant may be

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Speaker 1: totally bankrupt judgment proof, so we want a judgment. I

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Speaker 1: believe it was for two point seven billion dollars against

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Speaker 1: a nationwide debt relief scammer. We were able to make

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Speaker 1: so many of those victims whole because of that victim's

437
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: Relief fund. So we're talking about something that has really

438
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: put money in the pockets of people across the country,

439
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 1: and to suggest that it is something that is trying

440
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: to do something outside of its laws. Look, I hate

441
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: to say, you know, mister Musk Elon Musk, he has

442
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 1: stated they want twitter x to become essentially a bank,

443
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: the ability to move and track payments across its platforms.

444
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 1: And I think that it's reasonable for Americans to wonder

445
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: why is he targeting this little age. And I think

446
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: a lot of the opposition is coming from tech conglomerates

447
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: because it has been a little bit the agency has

448
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: been a speed bump in their plans to conquer payments

449
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: in banking, and I think that that's Americans deserve to

450
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: have their financial privacy, financial fraud. These are important laws

451
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: on the books that we have to enforce, and we

452
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: shouldn't just be enforcing it against banks.

453
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 4: So the White House goes on, they say the CFPP

454
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 4: granted itself broad new powers in the waning hours of

455
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 4: the lame duck Biden administration, described as classic quote government overreach.

456
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 4: The agency gave itself the authority to regulate Americans checking

457
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 4: accounts by dictating government price controls, and unilaterally buried fifty

458
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 4: billion dollars in medical debt.

459
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 5: Let's take those one by one.

460
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 4: So when they say you're dictating government price controls, what

461
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 4: are they referring to there?

462
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: So what I think is that there had been very

463
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: serious abuses across the marketplace.

464
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 4: When it can just give you a hint if you

465
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 4: click their link, its talks about overdraft.

466
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:16,719
Speaker 1: Yes, we uncovered a number of serious, serious wrongdoing on overdraft,

467
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: including manipulation of payment order and more. So, here's what

468
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: we do.

469
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 5: That's when they move the time that they.

470
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: Hit exactly, so instead of one overdraft fee, you might

471
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: get three or four in a day.

472
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 5: So they're calling that dictating price control.

473
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: Well, here's what we did. We took a look at

474
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 1: overdraft lending because you essentially it's a loan, and we

475
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: found that even if you were overdrawing thirty five cents,

476
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: you might get hit with a thirty five dollars fee.

477
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 5: I've been there.

478
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: So the original law says the following you got to

479
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: fully disclose the terms and conditions of loans. And what

480
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: we found is in nineteen sixty nine, the Federal Reserve

481
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: created a carve out for a specific set of circumstances.

482
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: It was when you were mailing paper checks through the

483
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: US Postal Service. Sometimes it was delayed, sometimes your paycheck

484
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: came later. And they said, you know, because you can't

485
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: really predict this the bank, you don't have to give

486
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: all these disclosures. You can just charge a reasonable fee.

487
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: We then looked at today and now overdraft is overwhelmingly

488
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: debit card purchases, and they're small purchases. So here's what

489
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: we said. We said, let's update that exemption and say,

490
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: in general, you got to fess up as to what

491
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: the interest rate you're charging. Fully disclose that interest rate

492
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: on the loans you're extending. But if you don't want

493
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: to do that, just charge a reasonable fee and will publish.

494
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: We'll publish what that average is. So they don't have

495
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: to they don't have to charge five dollars alow. If

496
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: they want to, they want to keep making big money,

497
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: they can disclose the interest rate. We really thought of

498
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: this as modernizing an outdated regulation and making sure that

499
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: people are being upfront and honest about the interest rate

500
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: they're charging on a loan.

501
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 4: So's that's what the White House called dictating government price controls.

502
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 4: Then they say unilaterally buried fifty billion.

503
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 5: Dollars in medical debt. What do they mean by that?

504
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: Here's what I speculate. We did a multi year analysis, and.

505
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 4: If you hint by clicking of credit reports, midnight rule

506
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 4: making from Liz Warren's favorite agency spells even more bad

507
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 4: news for cash strapped Americans, the Daily Caller.

508
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: So in twenty twenty one, we completed a major analysis

509
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: of credit reports. It used to be that your credit report,

510
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: the items that were in debt collection was largely credit cards.

511
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: But something flipped and we found that debt collectors were

512
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: parking meta bills on people's credit report, and there were

513
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: very systemic issues with inaccuracy. Many people already paid it

514
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: or it was supposed to be paid by the insurance company.

515
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: And after we published our analysis, the big credit reporting

516
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: conglomerates immediately said, we're going to really take off most

517
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: of this. We also had evidence that it was not

518
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: even predictive of your repayment on your auto loaner credit card.

519
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: So we didn't want to just take volunteers for this.

520
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: We said, you know what, the law actually prohibits medical

521
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: information from appearing on credit reports. So we updated the

522
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: rule to put serious limitations and essentially forbid the parking

523
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: of these medical bills on the credit reports. It would

524
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: still include, for example, medical bills you paid on a

525
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: credit card, but the actual bills that you were stuck

526
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: in the doom loop doing the insurance company, the hospital,

527
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: and others. We found that that was it was coercive.

528
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: It was a way to coerce people into paying that

529
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: they don't owe. Now, of course, hospitals others, they still

530
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: have many other ways to collect. In some cases they

531
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: sue people. But we thought that that was a very

532
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: reasonable update to stop systemic abuses, and it was broadly supported,

533
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: and we've seen states across the country enact their own

534
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: state laws to prohibit that abuse as well.

535
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 4: So my co host Emily couldn't be here for this,

536
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 4: but she wanted me to ask you about something that

537
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 4: happened at CFPB before you got there, which is what

538
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 4: and here's how she put it the CFPB. So she

539
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 4: does roeh agree with this assessment in the Washington Examiner.

540
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 5: The CFPB did.

541
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 4: Play a key role, according to a report from the

542
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 4: Fdiics Inspector General in the Obama era Operation Choke Point

543
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 4: even more disturbing, For the past few years, the CFPP

544
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 4: has wielded its enforcement authority over housing discrimination to effectively

545
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 4: censor speech with which it degrees with which it disagrees.

546
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 4: Let's take them in two parts. One Operation Choke Point

547
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 4: that was an effort, as I recall, by the FBI

548
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 4: to clamp down on gun trafficking by basically I think,

549
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 4: deed banking a bunch of arms dealers or something, but

550
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 4: which of course then caught up a lot of people

551
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 4: by citizens who were involved in selling weapons, which the

552
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 4: right would say is, look, this is Second Amendment protected activity.

553
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 4: So what was what's your understanding of what CFPB's role

554
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 4: was in Operation Chowpoint.

555
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, And what I recall was that this

556
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: was a Justice Department operation, but there was really no

557
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: consumer law involved, and the CFPB can only really enforce

558
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: those consumer laws. And I also understand that it was

559
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: a lot of business accounts. So as far as I know,

560
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: the CFPB during that time was also worried about bank

561
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: account access, trying to make sure there is fair access

562
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: to bank accounts. So I don't have all the details,

563
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: but it would surprise me because consumer law is the

564
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: only thing the CFPP can really pursue when it comes

565
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: to savings and checking accounts.

566
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 4: So what about wielding your enforcement authority over housing discrimination

567
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 4: to sensor speech.

568
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 1: I have really no clue where that allegation comes from.

569
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: I think it is possible when there are redlining cases,

570
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: there's data that you take a look at as to

571
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: where are people denying or not offering loans. And redlining

572
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: is the concept where you may not even get an application,

573
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 1: you just may refuse to even offer services or lending there.

574
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: And it is true that in sometimes the cases do

575
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 1: uncover documents that where the lender is using a lot

576
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: of charged racial language. But that's not the violation itself.

577
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: The violation is actually the red lining.

578
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 4: So right, the speech proves that they're actually discriminating against it.

579
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: In some ways, the documents can show where there was

580
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: blatant discrimination.

581
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 4: Got it, So the CPP might find out that, you know,

582
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 4: black or Hispanic applicants are rejected at a much higher rate,

583
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 4: and then find the executives using charge.

584
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: Language about a specific applicant or about a specific neighborhood,

585
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: and so as a bunch of backs together, I see,

586
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: I see. But certainly a person's speech cannot trip thee

587
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: in any way trip that law. What trips the law

588
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: as denying or redlining based on a protected characteristic like

589
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: religion or race.

590
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 4: Let's talk for a minute about some of the good

591
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,399
Speaker 4: stuff that, from your perspective, Trump has done, because you're

592
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 4: in an interesting position here in the sense that you

593
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 4: came in first to the FTC as what I would

594
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 4: say is one of the first FTC commissioners of this

595
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 4: new era, really trying to wield the Federal Trade Commissions

596
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 4: of power on behalf of people against monopolies, against scam artists,

597
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 4: and since then you were doing it later obviously joined

598
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 4: by Lena Khan and Andrew Ferguson and other So a

599
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 4: bipartisan not that they agree on everything, but a bipartisan

600
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 4: sense that something's wrong here, and the populist wings of

601
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 4: each party actually have more in common maybe than the

602
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 4: corporate wings of each party. So let's get together and

603
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 4: block some of these murders and force some of these actions.

604
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 5: The FTC is still.

605
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 4: Going kind of strong in that mode. You then left

606
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 4: and go over to the CFP B, which is now

607
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 4: just getting absolutely slaughtered by Trump. So it's this schizophrenic

608
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 4: approach from the Trump administration, where on the one hand,

609
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 4: there's good work being done at the FDC, on the

610
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 4: other hand, they're dismissing all of these obvious good cases

611
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 4: against scam artists and saying that they're going to try

612
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 4: to utterly completely eliminate the thing. So let's pick a

613
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 4: couple things like, so Trump has talked about capping credit

614
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 4: card interest rates.

615
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 5: Where do you come down on that?

616
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 4: And where should the populace right it's come down on this?

617
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 5: Is this?

618
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 4: Should they understand the attack on the CFPB? Is that

619
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 4: the essence of what Trump is doing? Or is there

620
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 4: upholding of the FTC's populism. Is that kind of who

621
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 4: they are? What the heck is going on?

622
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: I think that's the jury is really out because on

623
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 1: one hand, like I mentioned before, you saw President Trump

624
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 1: call out Jamie Diamond. You saw campaigning on capping credit

625
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: card interest rates. That's totally in conflict with, not with

626
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: defunding the Wall Street Police, And that's really what this

627
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 1: seems to be happening to the CFPB. Again, the jury

628
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: is out about which way it will turn out, But

629
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: it seems like right now a lot of the big

630
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 1: tech companies are wielding a lot of control over some

631
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: of these pieces. But then let's see what happens at

632
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: the FTC. I was part of that original bipartisan It

633
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: was a three to two vote, two Democrats and a

634
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: Republican versus two Republicans voting out that big inn I

635
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: trust complaint against Facebook. Lena Khan came to the to

636
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: the FTC really fix the complaint, to continue to prosecute it.

637
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:08,959
Speaker 1: The trial will occur, Google others will see. I think

638
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: there is a lot of mixed messages across the board,

639
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: and I think, to answer your question, yes, I think

640
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: we are seeing a lot more energy from across the

641
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 1: ideological spectrum that is questioning abuse of power. Now there's

642
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: also a strong corporate influence across the board. When I

643
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: got to the FTC Ryan in twenty eighteen, I was

644
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: really shocked and to see what I saw, it was

645
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: hard to understand what planet people were that age. It

646
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 1: was basically a dead fish. There was massive abuses, for

647
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: example in subprime mortgages, where the FTC really took a

648
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: back seat.

649
00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 5: There was still in twenty eighteen.

650
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: Well, I was saying in the two thousand and eight era,

651
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: then you have opioids where there's enormous enormous abuses by

652
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: a pharmaceutical industry where the FTC is sort of missing

653
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: in action. And the thing that really got me was

654
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: I had discovered that there was a policy, a bipartisan

655
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: consensus over multiple administrations that made in USA fraud should

656
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: not be penalized. So we had cases come in where

657
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: they were ripping off the Maiden China label, ripping off

658
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: the Maid in Mexico label, and putting on a fake

659
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: Maid in USA label, and the FTC's response was catch

660
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 1: and release. And I thought that that was a serial.

661
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: We changed that policy. We changed the policy toward pharmaceutical mergers,

662
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: which was put on a blind, unfold rubber stamps and

663
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 1: let them run wild. Obama too, right, I mean multiple administrations.

664
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: So I think that that really was something that it

665
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: needed a massive reboot. But we'll see, we'll really see

666
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 1: right now if it does continue or not. And I

667
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 1: think that is what all of us will have to

668
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: keep a close watch on whether the big tech companies

669
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 1: in big pharma companies will be the ones that call

670
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: the shots or not.

671
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 4: Emily had also floated this thing that's going around on

672
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 4: the right. It's this idea that why not just move

673
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 4: the CFPB under the FTC. FTC is now doing some

674
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 4: good consumer work. Let's just let's just go with that.

675
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: Well, we tried that and it was a disaster. We

676
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: had for other people say why don't we put it

677
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: under this office called the Office of the Comptroller of the.

678
00:41:58,680 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 5: Current Jamie Diamond said that.

679
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: Through the occ we tried that, it was a massive failure.

680
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: So what occurred after the financial crisis. We killed one

681
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 1: of the agencies that failed, and we also which it

682
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: was called the Office of Thrift Supervision, who was clearly

683
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: at the back end call of big subprime mortgage lenders

684
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: who were paying the bills at the agency. So it

685
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: was in some ways a consolidation, a reorg plan, but

686
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: it was a smart one because what it did is

687
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: it took it stripped away the authorities of some It

688
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: eliminated an agency and eliminated divisions in certain places. But

689
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: it created a huge amount of accountability because now you

690
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: know there's an agency that was responsible. If you just

691
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: park it somewhere else, it will just be a blame

692
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 1: game of oh, it's someone else's problem. And we saw

693
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: how much it just did not work. So look, I'm

694
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: always open of ways we can make things more effective.

695
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: One way to make a lot of things more effective

696
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: is to make sure that our states can also enforce

697
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:19,760
Speaker 1: these laws. That's a place where people across the board agree.

698
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: But I don't think hiding the function in an agency

699
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: that has other responsibilities. Maybe that can work, but also

700
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: it can really dilute accountability for that leadership. The Federal

701
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: Reserve Board, they were responsible for regulating a lot of

702
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: the rules around mortgages. I think everyone saw that the Fed,

703
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: they were paying attention and prioritizing other things, and that's

704
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: why it needed to be stripped away.

705
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 4: Now, what we're discovering is that it turns out that

706
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 4: the market actually does want some rules. So if you

707
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 4: can put up a seven here. This is a post

708
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 4: by Dave Dan referencing an article that he had written

709
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 4: in the American Prospect.

710
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 5: He says, new from me.

711
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 4: Russ Vote, whose is the OMB director, was on the

712
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 4: verge of breaking the mortgage market by shutting down a

713
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 4: core function provided by CFPB. But he blinked and in

714
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 4: so doing revealed that regulation is actually pretty important. So

715
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 4: what happened here CFPB eliminated all effectively eliminated all rules,

716
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 4: and it wasn't the consumers that rebelled, it was the

717
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 4: mortgage lender.

718
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,280
Speaker 5: So what happened here, Well.

719
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,399
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure what is going on over there,

720
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: other than to say that we actually usually had all

721
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 1: of these regulated companies wanting us. They were the ones

722
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: coming to us go after these companies that are clearly

723
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 1: breaking the law. How are we supposed to compete if

724
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: there is agregious lawbreaking. But there was also other pieces,

725
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: which is, in some cases there are laws on the books,

726
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: and the CFPB will publish data or other pieces of

727
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: information that helps the whole market comply and make sure

728
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: they're on the right side of the law. And I

729
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 1: think what you saw there was just one example where

730
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: the mortgage lenders want to know the key pieces of

731
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: data they keep them on the right side of the law.

732
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: One of the things I was proud of when I

733
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: was at the agency is instead of forcing a lot

734
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: of these companies, especially small companies, to hire all sorts

735
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: of lawyers about novel situations, new types of products, we

736
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: just published the legal opinion and basically allowed any company

737
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: to just rely on that and if they didn't agree

738
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: with that, sure they could they could choose their own

739
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: way of doing it, and maybe they'll take that risk,

740
00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: but we really reduce the need to hire a lot

741
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: of high priced lawyers. And I think that's actually what

742
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: government should do. Government shouldn't be serving the interests of

743
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: the biggest companies. It should be providing information and in

744
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: many cases, bright line rules whenever it can, because that's

745
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 1: what's simpler for the new folks who want to challenge

746
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: the corporate royalty.

747
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 4: So after Trump's election, but I think before his inauguration, correctly,

748
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 4: How'm wrong in the dates you spoke to the Federalist

749
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 4: Society about the overlap between a kind of progressive consumer

750
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 4: protection philosophy and a conservative consumer protection philosophy. Would you

751
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 4: have stayed on in a Trump administration if that had

752
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 4: been a possibility, and did you think that it was

753
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 4: within the realm of possibility.

754
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: Well, as you remember, a lot of the big tech

755
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: companies in the banks were saying, he'll be out in

756
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: minute one. I actually stayed a few more weeks, and

757
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: it was not because they forgot about me. I think

758
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 1: I swore an oath to a five year term, and

759
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: I share that I'll keep serving until replaced, and I

760
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: completely respect that in this agency, the president has the

761
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: right to choose now. I think this is a big

762
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: open question right now, is that is this agency going

763
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: to be a tool of how the most powerful actors

764
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: keep their power, or is it going to continue on

765
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: some of the things we did to make sure that

766
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 1: consumers have the ability to fire companies with bad customer

767
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: service and take their business elsewhere, that they can capture

768
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: interest rates on their deposit accounts, lower rates on their loans,

769
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: and that there is not a crime ridden marketplace, that

770
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: there is law and order, or is it just all

771
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: going to be completely lawless, that.

772
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 5: They defund the police.

773
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: Well, in some ways that is what is happening. I

774
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 1: think defunding and firing the investigators. Right now we're hearing

775
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: that all of the investigations against big companies for some

776
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: serious wrongdoing are just being paused and they're being told

777
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: don't do any work. Who is that helping? I think

778
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: it is only helping the law breaking companies.

779
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,760
Speaker 4: Also makes it hard for you to write your email

780
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 4: of what you did the last week if if you're

781
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 4: told not to do anything.

782
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 5: I wanted to ask you about one of these though.

783
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 4: Russ Vote posted on x just the other day, the

784
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 4: announcement of basically the pulling back of an enforcement said

785
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 4: over the last four years, many working class Americans would

786
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 4: limited means, faced unexpected medical bills, auto repairs, and higher

787
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 4: grocery bills. This is Russ Fode, who's OWNB director and

788
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 4: also appointed as the new head of the CFPB. One

789
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 4: company set up an innovative solution by creating a platform

790
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 4: to allow borrowers and lenders to connect for loans at

791
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 4: no interest, with borrowers able to tip the lender and

792
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,720
Speaker 4: also donate to keep the platform going. Shockingly, the CFPB

793
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 4: tried to destroy this company, which incurred solo, which incurred

794
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 4: millions in legal fees, and had to lay off thirty

795
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 4: percent of its workforce. It was wrong and we dismissed

796
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 4: the case. More to come, but the weaponization of consumer

797
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 4: protection must end.

798
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:39,839
Speaker 5: Now.

799
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 4: If people go to this x post, they can see

800
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 4: that there's a community note on it that has survived

801
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 4: attempts to try to strip it. But why would the

802
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 4: CPB try to destroy this company which is just trying

803
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 4: to for free connect people with lenders, connect struggling people

804
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 4: with willingness to lend.

805
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: Well, as you mentioned, I believe there were as a

806
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: community note because this is a company that had been

807
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: repeatedly sanctioned by multiple state regulators and attorneys general, I believe,

808
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 1: and in those cases, many of those states come to

809
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: the CFPB and say, you have to solve this issue nationally.

810
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 5: We can't do that.

811
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: It can't just be a game of whack a mole.

812
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 1: And I believe that law enforcement action was actually to

813
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: address a sophisticated what's known as a dark pattern, a

814
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:38,720
Speaker 1: digital design device that forces you into something you don't want.

815
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,879
Speaker 1: And you can take a look at the complaint. They

816
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: make it seem like, oh, you can just tip, But

817
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 1: what if the tip is forced? What if the tip

818
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: is actually just a disguised way to charge an exploitative

819
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 1: interest rate in violation of state law. So I think

820
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 1: that that's a a lot of people are going to

821
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: look at this potential dismissal of where might there be

822
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: some foul play because this is something that almost seemed

823
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: like a bread and butter case to many people.

824
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 5: Right like that, this is what the CFOB is set

825
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 5: up to do.

826
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 4: It is a company says it's doing one thing allegation

827
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 4: or is doing something different walking away with all the money.

828
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're saying something is a no interest loan.

829
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: But you're just disguising the interest charge, the triple digit

830
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 1: interest charge as a by another name. I mean, that's

831
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: really what it's kind of again, it's it's bread and

832
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,720
Speaker 1: butter type fraud that the agency is supposed to go after.

833
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 4: And I know there was some hope among the banks

834
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 4: and major corporations that and M and A firms that

835
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 4: this would usher in an era Trump would usher in

836
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 4: an era of new mergers. Capital Want and Discover are

837
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,760
Speaker 4: attempting to pull themselves together.

838
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 5: You critical of that? Do you think this will get stopped?

839
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 4: And why should any why should people watching this, you know,

840
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 4: give a rip if Capital Want and Discover merge.

841
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, look right now, we have a situation where

842
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: we remember inflation. Everyone was saying, well, inflation is going down,

843
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: inflation is going down. But the truth is is for

844
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: many people's monthly budgets, they felt that they were more

845
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:37,280
Speaker 1: and more stressed. And something that inflation often doesn't measure

846
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: is interest rate costs, the costs that you have to

847
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: pay on your credit card, your auto loan, and your

848
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: mortgage and more. And we have a situation in credit

849
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 1: cards where there is a small almost click of credit

850
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 1: card companies that dominate the market. I mean, the top

851
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 1: six have a huge market share. And we saw interest

852
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 1: rates on credit cards surge way beyond what the FED

853
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: raised rates and people are paying I think something like

854
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty billion dollars in interest and fees

855
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: on their credit cards. If we had a competitive interest

856
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:23,280
Speaker 1: rate n a credit card market where people were getting

857
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: a rate that was really tailored to them, this could

858
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 1: be something that could save people, you know, hundreds of

859
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 1: dollars and for some people thousands of dollars per year.

860
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: And some of these companies focus on subprime borrowers where

861
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 1: the highest rates are. So if you have a couple

862
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: of players consolidate down, the people who will pay the

863
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: price are those families. And I think that this is

864
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 1: not some academic question. It is really about are you

865
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: going to be put on a treadmill of debt or

866
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 1: are you going to get to benefit from a competitive marketplace.

867
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: And we'll see what happens, but certainly we know the president,

868
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 1: there's people from all across the political spectrum who feel

869
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: that the credit card companies need to really be rained in.

870
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 1: But again the jury is out.

871
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 4: I guess my last question for you then would be.

872
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 4: There's this famous clip of FDR at one of his

873
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 4: I'm sure you know there's one of one of the

874
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 4: Democratic conventions where he says something like, you know, the

875
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 4: bank the bankers have decided that they hate me and

876
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 4: I and I welcome there their hatred. You seem like

877
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 4: the bankers and the big tech companies have decided they

878
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 4: hate you. Do you welcome it or where do you

879
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 4: come down on the I welcome there.

880
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: I don't take it personally, I feel like I get it.

881
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 1: There is there are folks that feel that law enforcement

882
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 1: and regulators shouldn't be a watchdog, they should be a

883
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:18,280
Speaker 1: lap dog. They should be someone who bats their eyelashes

884
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 1: to meet with famous CEOs. And the truth is that's

885
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 1: not what we swear our oath to when we take

886
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: these jobs. It's very clear equal justice under the law

887
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: that has got to mean something, And it doesn't matter

888
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 1: how powerful or connected you are. We're supposed to have

889
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 1: laws that afford rights to our people, and it is

890
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 1: up to those who sit in those offices to vindicate them.

891
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 1: And even if that means you will be subject to threats, harassment,

892
00:55:56,320 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 1: people following you, it stinks, but you just got to

893
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: do it because that's what that's what I think the

894
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 1: constitution and our laws want to see. And we see

895
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:12,720
Speaker 1: we've seen when law enforcement and regulators do the bidding

896
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: of the powerful or those who break the law, none

897
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: of us really benefit from that.

898
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 4: Last last question, do you see hope in this moment?

899
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 4: And if so, where.

900
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 1: You know? I think that we are starting to see

901
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:37,959
Speaker 1: places where there is a desire to hold powerful people accountable.

902
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 1: But we also see situations where the police and law

903
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: enforcement and regulators are being muzzled and censored and not

904
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,479
Speaker 1: being able to do their jobs. So it's a jump

905
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 1: ball right now.

906
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 4: Maybe we can finish with a we can play that

907
00:56:54,840 --> 00:57:00,120
Speaker 4: clip of FDR at the DNC. But Roht, thank thank

908
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 4: you so much for coming by the studio. Appreciate it,

909
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 4: Thanks so much.

910
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 7: And we know now that government by organized money is

911
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 7: just as dangerous as government by organized mob.

912
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 6: No, I'm before in all our.

913
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 7: History have these papies being so united against one candidate

914
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 7: as they stand today. They are unanimous in the hate

915
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 7: for me, and I welcome their hatred.

916
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 9: I should like to have it said of my first

917
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 9: administration that in it the pauses of pupiousness and the

918
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 9: love for.

919
00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 7: Power Meta Matt, I should like to have it said,

920
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,439
Speaker 7: Wait a minute, I should like to have it said

921
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 7: of my second administration that in it these offices mess

922
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 7: their master