WEBVTT - Fire Drill 072: The Ball in the Air: A Golfing Adventure {BOOK PREVIEW] 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:06.600 When it's really, really, really all said and done. You 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:08.920 do play golf with other people, and you do make 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:14.040 relationships through golf unlike you would in any other place, 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:16.680 and you'll carry them around with you for the rest 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:18.880 of your life, even if you're only pat with that person. 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:25.160 One time, I got thoughts in my head. Can't get 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:32.080 Jan Nothing thing what I'm thinking about my head, can't 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:43.600 get them now, j Nothing thing what I'm thinking about. Hello, 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:45.600 this is Alan Ship. Now come back for another fire 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:50.199 drill with a Michael Bamberger, perennial wingman. This we're not 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:52.120 talking about curt events. We're not talking about live golf. 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:53.720 I'm not talking about the FedEx Cup. We're talk about 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:57.160 something that matters more here Michael's new book, The Ball 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:00.560 in the Air, which comes out this week. I just 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.120 finished reading it. It's an absolute joy. We thought. We 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:06.959 talked about the book, about the craft of writing, about 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:12.440 our various obsessions and books and golf and writing. So Michael, 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.280 thanks for doing this, Thanks for having me do this 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.040 with you again. We did it last time when we 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:20.560 were both in New York and both at Sports Illustrated 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:24.640 for a book called Men and Green, and we took 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.000 a thirty minute conversation got it down to eight. That's 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.960 probably about the right length. But anyway, Yeah, that was 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:33.839 that was fun. It's there's two parts of writing a book. 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:36.160 There's art and there's commerce. You know, the writer controls 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.000 the art, the typing, and then you got to sell 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:41.400 the book to Michael's a great credit. He doesn't even 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:43.560 really care about selling the book. I had to talk 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.880 him into doing this, so it's kind of a funny deal. 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:50.480 But Michael, for those two I would say more accurately, 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:54.320 you reminded me that it might be useful. Once you 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:56.760 reminded me that it might be useful, I was all in. 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:58.920 But I did kind of got about it. And the 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.640 other part was the fire Prollective is very nicely excerpting 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:05.800 the book as well. That definitely you didn't have to 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.080 sell me on it. But I had forgotten that that, traditionally, 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:13.079 speaking was a very conventional way to try to get 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:16.440 people to read a book. And of course I always 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.120 tell people, you know, hopefully your local library will have it. 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.079 I guess you could say that's a passive aggressive way 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.480 of saying, but maybe you'll buy it, But I do 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:28.240 hope that your public library will have it. But anyway, 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:31.040 it's a it's a funny business. Um. I never ask 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:34.560 our mutual editor. We'll talk about him. I'm sure, um, 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:39.440 how many copies are you're printing? Because that's their thing. 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:43.280 A more savvy writer than I of course asked that 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:46.000 question because you can't sell more. But of course I 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:49.320 would kindle books and electronic books. That's less meaningful than 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.120 it used to be anyhow, like for instance, with Phil 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:54.480 what was your with your with your with your fill 0:02:54.520 --> 0:03:00.600 sales work percentage was electronic versus hardcover actual book. Okay, 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:02.120 first of all, this is very clever. If you, Michael, 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:04.160 now you're asking me questions, I'm a suppos to ask 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:06.480 you questions. Don't turn this around. This is your time 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.160 to shine. But yeah, that it came in, Yeah it 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:11.200 came in. I do know how it goes. It came 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:15.120 in a pretty close to fifty fifty, which is they 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:18.799 were they were thrilled about because over time, I think 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.680 it traditionally it's almost like seventy thirty now tilting in 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:25.360 the direction of electronics. But um, I think because golf 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.800 tends to reach possibly an older audience or more traditional audience, 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:30.359 people still like to hold the book in their hands, 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.440 and so publishers always happy to sell actual books. I'm 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:37.360 sure they do better on that as from a mark 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:39.200 you'd think so, I would think they do better off 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:43.240 the electronic book because there's no paper, no ink. Yeah, 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:45.320 that's true. Maybe a better way of putting is, once 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:47.480 they printed the books, they really want to sell them. 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:51.120 They're committed, so they because of all the energy around 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:53.160 Phil they'd printed a lot ahead of time, so they 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:55.360 were delighted to be selling them. That's yeah, that's a 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:58.800 good correction on your part. But I'm surprised to hear 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.080 that fifty fifty would have thought that there was so 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:05.200 much news value. Uh you know in the film book, 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:07.520 I would thought people, oh, download it now, read it now, 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:09.800 you know, don't want to wait for the hardcover and 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:12.080 lug it around. I actually said that because if you 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.440 call that excerpt came out in February and the book 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:16.880 wasn't released until May. I said to the to the 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:20.400 publisher or the editor. Uh, remember, I said, why don't 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.279 we just release electronic a version right now? It's like, no, 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:23.919 we gotta sell the books like we gotta sell the 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.599 paper books. So it's it's a funny industry, but it's 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:29.599 it's still very old fashioned in a lot of ways. 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.280 But all right, what are you doing with your now? 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.080 You got? You got a paperback version coming out here? Yes, 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.480 Michael's supposed to be about you. Yes, the paperback additional 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:42.479 film comes out May second. There's a very juicy hey, hey, 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:46.200 can I refer? Can I refer? And I guess get 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:50.839 filled or write an afterward. I think that's unlikely, but 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:54.400 it would be amazing. I've actually someone I was at 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:58.400 the live event in Tucson, and this is crazy. Someone 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.479 was lugging the book around in their backpack. I hope 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:02.200 I was trying I heard you here. I was hoping 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.360 I'd bumped into you, which actually happened to be also 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:06.960 in St. Andrews, which is also even more bizarre. But 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:09.520 so I signed the book, and I told the person, 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:11.839 this guy who's probably about my ages, that if you 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:14.279 can get Phil to sign this book and I've signed 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.000 it like that might be one of one and the 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.320 whole universe. I don't think. I don't think Phil's is 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.400 signing too many though, But okay, the ball is in 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:25.280 the air. It's it's such a charming tale. I have 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.039 my my thoughts about it. But for the person who's 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:30.760 listening to this podcast, how would you how would you 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.800 describe it? I mean, it's it's an adventure, it's it's personal. 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:36.200 You get into the lives of different people. But what 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:42.360 is your elevator pitch out on this book? Wow? Okay? Uh? 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.719 Did you see the gentleman walking by just as I did? Yeah, 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.320 in the in the fact, I'm at the Marriott Courtyard 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.680 in Daytona Beach and that gentleman's in the lobby here, 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:57.480 and he's definitely I would think a college basketball coach, 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.359 head or otherwise. And the reason I say that is 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.200 because he was talking baskets with somebody and he said, 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:07.279 what was your mother athletic? That's always a tell. Oh, well, 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.239 I'll take that even further. You know, coaching high school 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:14.159 girls basketball, the coaches we would scout like the middle 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:18.120 school moms because if there's a really tall mom, you know, 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:19.919 maybe the daughter hasn't had a gross spur like that 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.159 would factor into the who's going to make the team? 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:26.560 How tall is the mom? So all right, so tell 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.120 us about the book, Michael. The elevator picture is that 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:34.760 I grew up with the phrase and Alan maybe you 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.360 did as well, that golf is the game of a lifetime, 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:41.560 and like a lot of cliches, it's actually true. And 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:44.960 so they did here and it really began with our 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:50.159 mutual editor Jofie Ferrari Adler at Avid Reader Press, which 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:53.000 is part of Simon and Schuster, that this might be 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.640 a great time to celebrate the amateur game. That's where 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.880 that was the starting point. Jophie says, let's celebrate the 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.640 amateur game in a book. Let's right about the amate 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:06.080 game in the book. When he says let's write, he 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:09.240 really means you write a book about That's okay, That's 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.440 how it works. He's got to edit it. So so 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:16.040 then I started. I started thinking about one of the 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.680 great unique qualities about this amateur game is that you 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.840 can start young and play it right through old age. 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.160 And then the idea developed further as said, well, how 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:28.040 can you actually express that in story form? And then 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:32.880 I settled sea to find one golfer who's starting out 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:35.520 in his or her golfing life, one in the middle 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.440 and one in the end, not the I don't want 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:40.880 to say the end, but one who has a lifetime 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:43.520 of experience in the game. And I know you'd be 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:45.320 going here next Alan, So I'll just jump in and 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:49.680 say so I I after thinking about it for you know, 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.440 some months, I settled on three. Just think people. One 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.640 is brought Timus Scherpa and some people would know the name. 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.000 Maybe well, some people would definitely know the name because 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:01.280 she was part of an extraordinary documentary that Tomer Naldi 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:08.760 produced with his ESPN colleagues. She and that came from 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.720 and he got data to do that from an all 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.080 of her. Har of its story that ran and golf 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.480 died just before that. And she is a woman who 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:21.040 grew up truly in poverty in a maintenance shed on 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.600 the Royal Nepal Paul Golf Course in Katmandu. Alan, I 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:26.320 know you've traveled the world. I don't think you've been 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:28.440 to Nepal. If you have, I've never heard it. I'd 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:30.040 like to get there. You know, who would even think, 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.120 who would even think there is a nine whole golf 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:34.280 course there? But there is. And she grew up in 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.120 right on the property and she developed her game to 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:40.480 a point really with Harves his help, where she could 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:44.199 play college golf. And she's now a senior at cal 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.200 State LA. She's going to graduate in May. So she 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:51.960 represents the first chapter of a of a golfing life. 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:56.480 Our colleague Ryan French UM. But we'll always think him 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:58.800 as a colleague because he's in the fraternity that we're 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:04.000 in of sports writers. And everybody who knows the name 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:05.960 Ryan French knows that he is the Monday Q guy, 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:10.840 as people would say, and people always say about him. 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.120 And Ryan's life has had a lot of turmoil and 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:14.920 a lot of difficulty in it, and a lot of 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:18.160 great moments as well. But at one point his life 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.559 in his thirties was really going in a chaotic direction 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:25.800 and at the and not overstating it, in a suicidal path. 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:30.439 And he got his life back on track. And I'm 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:32.319 not going to say golf saved his life, but golf 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:37.120 contributed to the saving of his life. And then and 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:39.080 then I have an eighty eight year old friend, and 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.520 some people will know this name, a man named Sam 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:47.800 Reeves who grew up in a small town in Georgia. UM, 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:50.680 grew up in a cotton family, grew up in the 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:55.040 segregated South, and it was a very good is a 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:58.040 very good golfer and played a US amateur and life 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.840 has enriched every aspect of his life and exposed him 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:03.880 to all the things that you and I know, Alan, 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:07.000 that golf can expose you too, which is people from 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:10.000 all sorts of backgrounds playing golf in all sorts of 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:16.600 different places, and golf has enriched every aspect of his life. 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:21.480 So these three stories get interwoven, are interwoven through the book, 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:26.680 and that is really the book in a nutshell. But 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.640 I think the reason one, if one is a reader, 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:31.960 one might write to read the book is that their 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:38.240 stories are rich and the golfing experience I think for 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.959 anybody who's serious about it, is a rich one. And 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:46.560 so I hope I don't expect a lot of people 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.079 will find their way to this book. I'm glad that 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:50.880 you did, Alan, but for those that do, I hope 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.120 they come away feeling like, whether they're golfers or not, 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.160 that yeah, I can see why this game has such 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.040 a hold on people. Yeah, there's a fourth character in 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:00.920 the book, and of course it's you, because you you 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.400 mix your story in as well, and it's very charming 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.880 to follow your travels and to be along for the 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:10.280 ride as you revisit uh Macrahanis and some of these 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.320 other places that were part of your own golfing life 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.959 and education and um, and there's others, you know, Lee 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.480 Trevino kind of pops in and out, Butch harm in 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:24.559 Tiger Woods, Jack Nicholas, There's there's a lot of characters 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.960 that that enrich the whole tale. But what what But 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.760 you know, the common thread is that everyone loves golf. 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.959 Everyone's been touched by it, and it was a delight 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.920 to read it. It's actually been very stormy here in California. 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.520 We have a little sunshine today, but I mostly read 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:44.160 it uh while uh the windows rattling and I had 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:46.520 a fire going, and it was it was the perfect 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:49.360 sort of companion because it the whole book kind of 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:51.880 gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling because it is 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.040 I mean, there's as you say, there's there's challenges, and 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:57.160 there's they're suffering in the stories of some of some 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:01.280 of your protagonists, but uh, there's a hopefulness and like 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:03.880 an optimism that runs through the book that I found 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:08.960 very very winning and life affirming. And even if you're 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:11.440 not a golfer, I think their stories would would would 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.560 touch you. And you know, Sam Reeves, I've been around 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:16.080 him just a little bit you know where we both 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.319 live in this in this area, and I've heard his 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:23.120 beautiful his beautiful drawl, and I've seen his his lovely 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:25.800 golf swing and just the way he carries himself. He's 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.920 just the absolute classic golfing gentleman. And um, but I 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.240 didn't really know his whole tale. And it's you talk 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:36.520 about a a quintessential American story. I mean, this guy 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:41.880 came from a kind of average background and had spectacular 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:45.840 success in business. And but what's what's most oppressive about 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:47.040 him is the way he lived his life and the 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:50.080 way he gave back and how much his concern for 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:54.080 his his his fellow man and intellectual curiosity. I mean 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.840 that that was that was a revelation. And uh, you know, 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.640 what would you say about Sam, who's really an all 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:05.120 time character in this game? Yeah, he really is. He. Uh, 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:07.600 There's so much I could say about Sam, and I'll 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:09.920 just try to limit it to the first anchors to 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.240 me to Sam, where you have a person who's serious 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:17.439 about life. He is a serious person, but he has 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.000 a tremendous sense of fun. He just has a fun 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.960 spirit where he's a member of all sorts of nice clubs, 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:25.000 one of which is Cypress Point Club down the road 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.960 from where Alan lives, and he lives on the Cypress 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:32.280 Point Club, of course, right above the eighth Green. And 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:36.319 we were having lunch at Cypress Point and Kandye Race 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.720 was one table over and she came over and said 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:43.280 hi to Sam, and she said, Sam, can I visit 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:47.320 with you? And Sam said, Sam's got one word in 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.040 his vocabulary, absolutely love. He's got a lot of words, 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:52.679 but this one in particular, and this is how it's 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.680 s U r E. But this is why he says it. Shure. 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:03.480 He's happy to say yeah, he's there's something I'd like 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.280 to ask it. Sure, So Condie leaves and we leave, 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:10.439 We get cookies to go for our dessert course. He's 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:13.079 always on the move. This guy's eighty eight and he's 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:16.560 always on the move. And then Sam says, I don't 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:22.680 know what she wants, but the answer is yes. So 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.240 he has that spirit about him. He has a great 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.240 friendship with Fred Couples and Jose Maria Ott the ball 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.760 and as you are alluding to later in life when 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:34.760 I say later, so one thing that developed in this 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:39.040 book in through Sam is that he views life is 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.840 let's say zero to thirty thirty to sixty and sixty on. 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:48.200 And there are different stages in life and different goals 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.120 in those different stages, different ways to think about what 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:59.320 your role is on this earth in these different stages. Preparation, implementation, 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.920 and valid are the words that he uses for these 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:07.200 for these three stages. And when he yeah, there's a 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:09.560 lot to it. And uh, he's an original thinker. And 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:11.840 in his early this is all like he didn't pick 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.720 this up from doctor Phil. You know, this is him. 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.480 This is how he thinks. And um. Uh. And one 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:22.600 of the things that he uh discovered in his uh, 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:28.760 in his in his early sixties was that golf meant. 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:32.040 He put golf on on the shelf for a while, 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.080 and when he got into his early sixties he sort 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.200 of committed himself to golf again. Uh. And along the 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:41.520 way he developed two great friends late in life, which 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.320 is not necessarily a common thing. Both happen to be 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:48.400 golf professionals. And I think you'll know have you'll definitely 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:50.000 know of and I think you probably knew both men 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:53.600 and I've known both men. Um, they could not be 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.120 more different. And the two men are butch harmon and 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.640 all our listeners would know the name, Butch Harmon UH 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:02.760 taught Tiger Woods and and and Davis Love and Greg 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:10.440 Dorman UH most notably after Tiger UM profane, macho, tough, 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.360 steak eater, always has the need to all out. But 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.480 then his other great friend UH in later life was 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:23.280 the longtime head professional at Cyper's Point Jim Langley UM. 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.880 Although he was a monster on the basketball coat basketball court, 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.280 he played for UH for cal in the in the 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:33.680 late fifties. UH and they won a national championship UM 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:38.600 over Jerry West West Virginior team. But that aside, Did 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:40.360 you ever know him? Al? Yeah, I had a great 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.480 pleasure of sitting in his office one time and we 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.280 talked for a very long time because he's from Selina's 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.359 as am I and we had that connection and UH 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:52.160 and it was just Uh, he likes Sam Reeves just 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:57.200 exuded a gentility and a gentleness and that was I 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.360 can understand why people were so drawn to Jim and 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:03.960 then still are to Sam, because there's just something almost 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.320 They're down home and they're they're they're comfort comfortable to 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.359 be around, but there's almost a regalness about them that 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:14.880 is really unique and special. So so here are these 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:18.560 two two great friends. They developed in his sixties, both 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:22.320 both professionals. Could not be more different personality. But it 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.879 shows you, it shows you the range of Sam and 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.800 it shows you that in our own relationships, we need 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:32.960 a range of people in our lives. What was the 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:36.560 occasion that got you into Langley's office? You know, it's 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:38.960 it was the first time I played the course. I 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.199 knew his son, Brett, who worked at Pebble Beach. He 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:45.199 came in after I was a cartboy, but we kind 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.959 of had that connection, and I was talking to him 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:51.400 and came up that I never played Cyprus. This is 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:55.960 probably the mid to late nineties. He said, well, he said, 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:58.320 let me call my dad, and I said okay, And 0:17:58.400 --> 0:17:59.960 so he calls his dad and he said, he said, 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:01.800 come on over. He wants to talk to you. And so, 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.159 of course I had my clubs in the trunk. I 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:06.280 wasn't prepared to play or anything, and it just kind 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.479 of fell that way, and so we just we just 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:13.159 talked and and it's finally and I didn't know I 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:14.560 was even gonna play. I thought were just gonna have 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:15.920 this conversation. She said, I want you go and play 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.199 the course. Tell me what you think, I said by myself. 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:19.959 He's like, oh, I'll get your caddy. And I went 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.199 out and played Cyperus alone first time. It was it 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:25.600 was pretty special. And wow, um, that's neat. You never 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.040 told me that story. That is really neat. Yeah, yeah 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:31.840 it was. It was. It was special and and uh, 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:33.679 he was there when I got done and we chatted 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.359 some more. So that that was my exposure to Jim Langley. 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:38.440 But that was one thing that that I really moved 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:43.600 me in the book was that the the connection that 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.120 all these that you know, the protagonists, whether it's it's 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.960 it's Pratt Toma, or it's Sam or it's Ryan, it's 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.960 what makes their lives is the people around them. And 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:58.840 even though you know the material circumstances of Sam Reeves 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.240 and and Pratt Muster, it could not be any more different, 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.359 like what the connective fiber is, like the love they 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.200 have for their family and how that inspires them and 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:12.080 they're there's just desired to see the world but also 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:14.919 to share it with their family and um and of 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.320 course you know you mentioned Ryan's ups and downs, and 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.840 you know it's basically through Stephanie then and his parents 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.960 that he kind of saves himself. And that's what I 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:25.879 found really moving about the book. And the golf stuff 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:27.479 was cool, and I learned some new things that I 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.120 enjoyed hearing some of the stories again that I've heard 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:32.720 from you over dinner, but it was it was the 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:36.360 personal level of the book and and that that that 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:41.399 need for connection, that that was super moving to me. Alan, 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:47.360 that is an incredible insight, um and what you're sharing. 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.520 I was not aware of it while I was writing 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:53.520 the book, but I've since become aware of it, the 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:59.800 very thing that you're talking about, and it just kind 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.919 of really dawn to me. When it's really really really 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.439 all said and done, it would be very easy and 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:07.840 very true to say it gets you outdoors, It gets 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:10.479 you to compete against yourself. It gets to see if 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.560 you can have this brain to body connection where you 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:15.480 can send a message, you get that golf ball to 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:20.000 do what you want to do. It explores every facet 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:25.760 of really the human experience pretty much. But when it's really, 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:28.720 really really all said and done, you do play golf 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:32.320 with other people, and you do make relationships through golf 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.560 unlike you would in any other place, and you'll carry 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:38.560 them around with you for the rest of your life, 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:40.800 even if you're only play with that person one time. 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:46.000 I don't know why that thought didn't really accredit me 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:48.040 while I was writing it, But what you just said 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:51.639 is exactly what I believe. It really, really, really is 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:55.919 about relationships. So like, even if you look at and 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:57.919 let's not do a whole thing here unless you want to, 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:04.240 if you look at Wor's supporting the USGA in this 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:09.119 ball effort that they're talking about, I can see the 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:13.320 fingerprints on it. Um his relationship with Fred Ridley, a 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:17.520 former USGA president, with Fred Purpaul, the current USJA president, 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:21.320 with Jimmy Dunn, a new PGA tour board member, Um 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:24.439 all his dad, of course, all these elders that are 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:31.680 in his life. Tiger, of course that he thinks for himself. 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:37.680 But he's but like any person, especially an intelligent person 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.480 like Worry, he's taking in information all the time. But 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:45.720 part of taking information is trusting the source. And you 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:47.920 trust the source when you have a relationship with him. 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:51.040 And these relationships come out of golf. And just to 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:53.600 finish that one, the one thing I explore in the 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:57.879 book is that for whatever reason, I'm born in nineteen sixty, 0:21:57.960 --> 0:21:59.840 I have a lot. My wife, Christine, is born in 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:02.560 eighteen sixty. I have a lot of great friends who 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:06.040 were born in nineteen sixty, sixty one, fifty nine. That 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:08.919 we've been on this earth literally that you know, the 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:11.280 same amount of time. And it's not just like, oh, 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:14.000