1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: When it's really, really, really all said and done. You 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: do play golf with other people, and you do make 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: relationships through golf unlike you would in any other place, 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: and you'll carry them around with you for the rest 5 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: of your life, even if you're only pat with that person. 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: One time, I got thoughts in my head. Can't get 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: Jan Nothing thing what I'm thinking about my head, can't 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: get them now, j Nothing thing what I'm thinking about. Hello, 9 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: this is Alan Ship. Now come back for another fire 10 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: drill with a Michael Bamberger, perennial wingman. This we're not 11 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: talking about curt events. We're not talking about live golf. 12 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the FedEx Cup. We're talk about 13 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: something that matters more here Michael's new book, The Ball 14 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: in the Air, which comes out this week. I just 15 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: finished reading it. It's an absolute joy. We thought. We 16 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: talked about the book, about the craft of writing, about 17 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: our various obsessions and books and golf and writing. So Michael, 18 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: thanks for doing this, Thanks for having me do this 19 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: with you again. We did it last time when we 20 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: were both in New York and both at Sports Illustrated 21 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: for a book called Men and Green, and we took 22 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: a thirty minute conversation got it down to eight. That's 23 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: probably about the right length. But anyway, Yeah, that was 24 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,839 Speaker 1: that was fun. It's there's two parts of writing a book. 25 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: There's art and there's commerce. You know, the writer controls 26 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: the art, the typing, and then you got to sell 27 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: the book to Michael's a great credit. He doesn't even 28 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: really care about selling the book. I had to talk 29 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: him into doing this, so it's kind of a funny deal. 30 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: But Michael, for those two I would say more accurately, 31 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: you reminded me that it might be useful. Once you 32 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: reminded me that it might be useful, I was all in. 33 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: But I did kind of got about it. And the 34 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: other part was the fire Prollective is very nicely excerpting 35 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: the book as well. That definitely you didn't have to 36 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: sell me on it. But I had forgotten that that, traditionally, 37 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 1: speaking was a very conventional way to try to get 38 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: people to read a book. And of course I always 39 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: tell people, you know, hopefully your local library will have it. 40 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: I guess you could say that's a passive aggressive way 41 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: of saying, but maybe you'll buy it, But I do 42 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: hope that your public library will have it. But anyway, 43 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: it's a it's a funny business. Um. I never ask 44 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: our mutual editor. We'll talk about him. I'm sure, um, 45 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: how many copies are you're printing? Because that's their thing. 46 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: A more savvy writer than I of course asked that 47 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: question because you can't sell more. But of course I 48 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: would kindle books and electronic books. That's less meaningful than 49 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: it used to be anyhow, like for instance, with Phil 50 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: what was your with your with your with your fill 51 00:02:54,520 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: sales work percentage was electronic versus hardcover actual book. Okay, 52 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: first of all, this is very clever. If you, Michael, 53 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: now you're asking me questions, I'm a suppos to ask 54 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: you questions. Don't turn this around. This is your time 55 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: to shine. But yeah, that it came in, Yeah it 56 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: came in. I do know how it goes. It came 57 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: in a pretty close to fifty fifty, which is they 58 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: were they were thrilled about because over time, I think 59 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: it traditionally it's almost like seventy thirty now tilting in 60 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: the direction of electronics. But um, I think because golf 61 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: tends to reach possibly an older audience or more traditional audience, 62 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 1: people still like to hold the book in their hands, 63 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: and so publishers always happy to sell actual books. I'm 64 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: sure they do better on that as from a mark 65 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: you'd think so, I would think they do better off 66 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: the electronic book because there's no paper, no ink. Yeah, 67 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: that's true. Maybe a better way of putting is, once 68 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: they printed the books, they really want to sell them. 69 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: They're committed, so they because of all the energy around 70 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: Phil they'd printed a lot ahead of time, so they 71 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: were delighted to be selling them. That's yeah, that's a 72 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: good correction on your part. But I'm surprised to hear 73 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: that fifty fifty would have thought that there was so 74 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: much news value. Uh you know in the film book, 75 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: I would thought people, oh, download it now, read it now, 76 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: you know, don't want to wait for the hardcover and 77 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: lug it around. I actually said that because if you 78 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: call that excerpt came out in February and the book 79 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: wasn't released until May. I said to the to the 80 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: publisher or the editor. Uh, remember, I said, why don't 81 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: we just release electronic a version right now? It's like, no, 82 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 1: we gotta sell the books like we gotta sell the 83 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: paper books. So it's it's a funny industry, but it's 84 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: it's still very old fashioned in a lot of ways. 85 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 1: But all right, what are you doing with your now? 86 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: You got? You got a paperback version coming out here? Yes, 87 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: Michael's supposed to be about you. Yes, the paperback additional 88 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: film comes out May second. There's a very juicy hey, hey, 89 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: can I refer? Can I refer? And I guess get 90 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: filled or write an afterward. I think that's unlikely, but 91 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: it would be amazing. I've actually someone I was at 92 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: the live event in Tucson, and this is crazy. Someone 93 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: was lugging the book around in their backpack. I hope 94 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: I was trying I heard you here. I was hoping 95 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: I'd bumped into you, which actually happened to be also 96 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: in St. Andrews, which is also even more bizarre. But 97 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: so I signed the book, and I told the person, 98 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: this guy who's probably about my ages, that if you 99 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: can get Phil to sign this book and I've signed 100 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: it like that might be one of one and the 101 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: whole universe. I don't think. I don't think Phil's is 102 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: signing too many though, But okay, the ball is in 103 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: the air. It's it's such a charming tale. I have 104 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: my my thoughts about it. But for the person who's 105 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, how would you how would you 106 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: describe it? I mean, it's it's an adventure, it's it's personal. 107 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: You get into the lives of different people. But what 108 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: is your elevator pitch out on this book? Wow? Okay? Uh? 109 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: Did you see the gentleman walking by just as I did? Yeah, 110 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: in the in the fact, I'm at the Marriott Courtyard 111 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: in Daytona Beach and that gentleman's in the lobby here, 112 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: and he's definitely I would think a college basketball coach, 113 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: head or otherwise. And the reason I say that is 114 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: because he was talking baskets with somebody and he said, 115 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: what was your mother athletic? That's always a tell. Oh, well, 116 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,239 Speaker 1: I'll take that even further. You know, coaching high school 117 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: girls basketball, the coaches we would scout like the middle 118 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: school moms because if there's a really tall mom, you know, 119 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 1: maybe the daughter hasn't had a gross spur like that 120 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: would factor into the who's going to make the team? 121 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: How tall is the mom? So all right, so tell 122 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: us about the book, Michael. The elevator picture is that 123 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: I grew up with the phrase and Alan maybe you 124 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: did as well, that golf is the game of a lifetime, 125 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: and like a lot of cliches, it's actually true. And 126 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: so they did here and it really began with our 127 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: mutual editor Jofie Ferrari Adler at Avid Reader Press, which 128 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: is part of Simon and Schuster, that this might be 129 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: a great time to celebrate the amateur game. That's where 130 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: that was the starting point. Jophie says, let's celebrate the 131 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: amateur game in a book. Let's right about the amate 132 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: game in the book. When he says let's write, he 133 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: really means you write a book about That's okay, That's 134 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: how it works. He's got to edit it. So so 135 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: then I started. I started thinking about one of the 136 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: great unique qualities about this amateur game is that you 137 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: can start young and play it right through old age. 138 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: And then the idea developed further as said, well, how 139 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: can you actually express that in story form? And then 140 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: I settled sea to find one golfer who's starting out 141 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: in his or her golfing life, one in the middle 142 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: and one in the end, not the I don't want 143 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: to say the end, but one who has a lifetime 144 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: of experience in the game. And I know you'd be 145 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: going here next Alan, So I'll just jump in and 146 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: say so I I after thinking about it for you know, 147 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: some months, I settled on three. Just think people. One 148 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: is brought Timus Scherpa and some people would know the name. 149 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: Maybe well, some people would definitely know the name because 150 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: she was part of an extraordinary documentary that Tomer Naldi 151 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: produced with his ESPN colleagues. She and that came from 152 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: and he got data to do that from an all 153 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: of her. Har of its story that ran and golf 154 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: died just before that. And she is a woman who 155 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: grew up truly in poverty in a maintenance shed on 156 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: the Royal Nepal Paul Golf Course in Katmandu. Alan, I 157 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: know you've traveled the world. I don't think you've been 158 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: to Nepal. If you have, I've never heard it. I'd 159 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: like to get there. You know, who would even think, 160 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: who would even think there is a nine whole golf 161 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: course there? But there is. And she grew up in 162 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: right on the property and she developed her game to 163 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: a point really with Harves his help, where she could 164 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 1: play college golf. And she's now a senior at cal 165 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: State LA. She's going to graduate in May. So she 166 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: represents the first chapter of a of a golfing life. 167 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: Our colleague Ryan French UM. But we'll always think him 168 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: as a colleague because he's in the fraternity that we're 169 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: in of sports writers. And everybody who knows the name 170 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: Ryan French knows that he is the Monday Q guy, 171 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: as people would say, and people always say about him. 172 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: And Ryan's life has had a lot of turmoil and 173 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: a lot of difficulty in it, and a lot of 174 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: great moments as well. But at one point his life 175 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 1: in his thirties was really going in a chaotic direction 176 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: and at the and not overstating it, in a suicidal path. 177 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 1: And he got his life back on track. And I'm 178 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 1: not going to say golf saved his life, but golf 179 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: contributed to the saving of his life. And then and 180 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: then I have an eighty eight year old friend, and 181 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: some people will know this name, a man named Sam 182 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: Reeves who grew up in a small town in Georgia. UM, 183 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: grew up in a cotton family, grew up in the 184 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: segregated South, and it was a very good is a 185 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: very good golfer and played a US amateur and life 186 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: has enriched every aspect of his life and exposed him 187 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: to all the things that you and I know, Alan, 188 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: that golf can expose you too, which is people from 189 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: all sorts of backgrounds playing golf in all sorts of 190 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: different places, and golf has enriched every aspect of his life. 191 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: So these three stories get interwoven, are interwoven through the book, 192 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: and that is really the book in a nutshell. But 193 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: I think the reason one, if one is a reader, 194 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: one might write to read the book is that their 195 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: stories are rich and the golfing experience I think for 196 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,959 Speaker 1: anybody who's serious about it, is a rich one. And 197 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: so I hope I don't expect a lot of people 198 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 1: will find their way to this book. I'm glad that 199 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: you did, Alan, but for those that do, I hope 200 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: they come away feeling like, whether they're golfers or not, 201 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: that yeah, I can see why this game has such 202 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: a hold on people. Yeah, there's a fourth character in 203 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: the book, and of course it's you, because you you 204 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: mix your story in as well, and it's very charming 205 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: to follow your travels and to be along for the 206 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: ride as you revisit uh Macrahanis and some of these 207 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: other places that were part of your own golfing life 208 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 1: and education and um, and there's others, you know, Lee 209 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: Trevino kind of pops in and out, Butch harm in 210 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 1: Tiger Woods, Jack Nicholas, There's there's a lot of characters 211 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: that that enrich the whole tale. But what what But 212 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: you know, the common thread is that everyone loves golf. 213 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: Everyone's been touched by it, and it was a delight 214 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: to read it. It's actually been very stormy here in California. 215 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: We have a little sunshine today, but I mostly read 216 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: it uh while uh the windows rattling and I had 217 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: a fire going, and it was it was the perfect 218 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: sort of companion because it the whole book kind of 219 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling because it is 220 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: I mean, there's as you say, there's there's challenges, and 221 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: there's they're suffering in the stories of some of some 222 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: of your protagonists, but uh, there's a hopefulness and like 223 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: an optimism that runs through the book that I found 224 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: very very winning and life affirming. And even if you're 225 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: not a golfer, I think their stories would would would 226 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: touch you. And you know, Sam Reeves, I've been around 227 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: him just a little bit you know where we both 228 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 1: live in this in this area, and I've heard his 229 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: beautiful his beautiful drawl, and I've seen his his lovely 230 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: golf swing and just the way he carries himself. He's 231 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: just the absolute classic golfing gentleman. And um, but I 232 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: didn't really know his whole tale. And it's you talk 233 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: about a a quintessential American story. I mean, this guy 234 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: came from a kind of average background and had spectacular 235 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: success in business. And but what's what's most oppressive about 236 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: him is the way he lived his life and the 237 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: way he gave back and how much his concern for 238 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: his his his fellow man and intellectual curiosity. I mean 239 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: that that was that was a revelation. And uh, you know, 240 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: what would you say about Sam, who's really an all 241 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: time character in this game? Yeah, he really is. He. Uh, 242 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: There's so much I could say about Sam, and I'll 243 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: just try to limit it to the first anchors to 244 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: me to Sam, where you have a person who's serious 245 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: about life. He is a serious person, but he has 246 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: a tremendous sense of fun. He just has a fun 247 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: spirit where he's a member of all sorts of nice clubs, 248 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: one of which is Cypress Point Club down the road 249 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: from where Alan lives, and he lives on the Cypress 250 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: Point Club, of course, right above the eighth Green. And 251 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 1: we were having lunch at Cypress Point and Kandye Race 252 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: was one table over and she came over and said 253 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: hi to Sam, and she said, Sam, can I visit 254 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: with you? And Sam said, Sam's got one word in 255 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: his vocabulary, absolutely love. He's got a lot of words, 256 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 1: but this one in particular, and this is how it's 257 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: s U r E. But this is why he says it. Shure. 258 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: He's happy to say yeah, he's there's something I'd like 259 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: to ask it. Sure, So Condie leaves and we leave, 260 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 1: We get cookies to go for our dessert course. He's 261 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 1: always on the move. This guy's eighty eight and he's 262 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: always on the move. And then Sam says, I don't 263 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: know what she wants, but the answer is yes. So 264 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: he has that spirit about him. He has a great 265 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: friendship with Fred Couples and Jose Maria Ott the ball 266 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: and as you are alluding to later in life when 267 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: I say later, so one thing that developed in this 268 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: book in through Sam is that he views life is 269 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: let's say zero to thirty thirty to sixty and sixty on. 270 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: And there are different stages in life and different goals 271 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: in those different stages, different ways to think about what 272 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: your role is on this earth in these different stages. Preparation, implementation, 273 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: and valid are the words that he uses for these 274 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: for these three stages. And when he yeah, there's a 275 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: lot to it. And uh, he's an original thinker. And 276 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: in his early this is all like he didn't pick 277 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: this up from doctor Phil. You know, this is him. 278 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: This is how he thinks. And um. Uh. And one 279 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: of the things that he uh discovered in his uh, 280 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: in his in his early sixties was that golf meant. 281 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: He put golf on on the shelf for a while, 282 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: and when he got into his early sixties he sort 283 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: of committed himself to golf again. Uh. And along the 284 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: way he developed two great friends late in life, which 285 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: is not necessarily a common thing. Both happen to be 286 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: golf professionals. And I think you'll know have you'll definitely 287 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: know of and I think you probably knew both men 288 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: and I've known both men. Um, they could not be 289 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: more different. And the two men are butch harmon and 290 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: all our listeners would know the name, Butch Harmon UH 291 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: taught Tiger Woods and and and Davis Love and Greg 292 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: Dorman UH most notably after Tiger UM profane, macho, tough, 293 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: steak eater, always has the need to all out. But 294 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: then his other great friend UH in later life was 295 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: the longtime head professional at Cyper's Point Jim Langley UM. 296 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: Although he was a monster on the basketball coat basketball court, 297 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: he played for UH for cal in the in the 298 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: late fifties. UH and they won a national championship UM 299 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: over Jerry West West Virginior team. But that aside, Did 300 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: you ever know him? Al? Yeah, I had a great 301 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: pleasure of sitting in his office one time and we 302 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: talked for a very long time because he's from Selina's 303 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,359 Speaker 1: as am I and we had that connection and UH 304 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: and it was just Uh, he likes Sam Reeves just 305 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: exuded a gentility and a gentleness and that was I 306 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: can understand why people were so drawn to Jim and 307 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: then still are to Sam, because there's just something almost 308 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: They're down home and they're they're they're comfort comfortable to 309 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: be around, but there's almost a regalness about them that 310 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 1: is really unique and special. So so here are these 311 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: two two great friends. They developed in his sixties, both 312 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: both professionals. Could not be more different personality. But it 313 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: shows you, it shows you the range of Sam and 314 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: it shows you that in our own relationships, we need 315 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: a range of people in our lives. What was the 316 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: occasion that got you into Langley's office? You know, it's 317 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: it was the first time I played the course. I 318 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 1: knew his son, Brett, who worked at Pebble Beach. He 319 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,199 Speaker 1: came in after I was a cartboy, but we kind 320 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 1: of had that connection, and I was talking to him 321 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 1: and came up that I never played Cyprus. This is 322 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: probably the mid to late nineties. He said, well, he said, 323 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: let me call my dad, and I said okay, And 324 00:17:58,400 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: so he calls his dad and he said, he said, 325 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: come on over. He wants to talk to you. And so, 326 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 1: of course I had my clubs in the trunk. I 327 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: wasn't prepared to play or anything, and it just kind 328 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 1: of fell that way, and so we just we just 329 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: talked and and it's finally and I didn't know I 330 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: was even gonna play. I thought were just gonna have 331 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: this conversation. She said, I want you go and play 332 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 1: the course. Tell me what you think, I said by myself. 333 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:19,959 Speaker 1: He's like, oh, I'll get your caddy. And I went 334 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 1: out and played Cyperus alone first time. It was it 335 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: was pretty special. And wow, um, that's neat. You never 336 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: told me that story. That is really neat. Yeah, yeah 337 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: it was. It was. It was special and and uh, 338 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: he was there when I got done and we chatted 339 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: some more. So that that was my exposure to Jim Langley. 340 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: But that was one thing that that I really moved 341 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: me in the book was that the the connection that 342 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 1: all these that you know, the protagonists, whether it's it's 343 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: it's Pratt Toma, or it's Sam or it's Ryan, it's 344 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: what makes their lives is the people around them. And 345 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: even though you know the material circumstances of Sam Reeves 346 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: and and Pratt Muster, it could not be any more different, 347 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: like what the connective fiber is, like the love they 348 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: have for their family and how that inspires them and 349 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: they're there's just desired to see the world but also 350 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: to share it with their family and um and of 351 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: course you know you mentioned Ryan's ups and downs, and 352 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: you know it's basically through Stephanie then and his parents 353 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: that he kind of saves himself. And that's what I 354 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: found really moving about the book. And the golf stuff 355 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:27,479 Speaker 1: was cool, and I learned some new things that I 356 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: enjoyed hearing some of the stories again that I've heard 357 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: from you over dinner, but it was it was the 358 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: personal level of the book and and that that that 359 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: need for connection, that that was super moving to me. Alan, 360 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 1: that is an incredible insight, um and what you're sharing. 361 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: I was not aware of it while I was writing 362 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: the book, but I've since become aware of it, the 363 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: very thing that you're talking about, and it just kind 364 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 1: of really dawn to me. When it's really really really 365 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: all said and done, it would be very easy and 366 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: very true to say it gets you outdoors, It gets 367 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,479 Speaker 1: you to compete against yourself. It gets to see if 368 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: you can have this brain to body connection where you 369 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: can send a message, you get that golf ball to 370 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: do what you want to do. It explores every facet 371 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: of really the human experience pretty much. But when it's really, 372 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: really really all said and done, you do play golf 373 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: with other people, and you do make relationships through golf 374 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: unlike you would in any other place, and you'll carry 375 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: them around with you for the rest of your life, 376 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: even if you're only play with that person one time. 377 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: I don't know why that thought didn't really accredit me 378 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: while I was writing it, But what you just said 379 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: is exactly what I believe. It really, really, really is 380 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: about relationships. So like, even if you look at and 381 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 1: let's not do a whole thing here unless you want to, 382 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: if you look at Wor's supporting the USGA in this 383 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: ball effort that they're talking about, I can see the 384 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: fingerprints on it. Um his relationship with Fred Ridley, a 385 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: former USGA president, with Fred Purpaul, the current USJA president, 386 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: with Jimmy Dunn, a new PGA tour board member, Um 387 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 1: all his dad, of course, all these elders that are 388 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: in his life. Tiger, of course that he thinks for himself. 389 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 1: But he's but like any person, especially an intelligent person 390 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: like Worry, he's taking in information all the time. But 391 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: part of taking information is trusting the source. And you 392 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: trust the source when you have a relationship with him. 393 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: And these relationships come out of golf. And just to 394 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: finish that one, the one thing I explore in the 395 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: book is that for whatever reason, I'm born in nineteen sixty, 396 00:21:57,960 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: I have a lot. My wife, Christine, is born in 397 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty. I have a lot of great friends who 398 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: were born in nineteen sixty, sixty one, fifty nine. That 399 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: we've been on this earth literally that you know, the 400 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: same amount of time. And it's not just like, oh, 401 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: do you remember the Mannix episode where blah blah blah. 402 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 1: It's much more. It is a little bit of that, 403 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 1: but it's much more than that. And something that comes 404 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: to mind is I played at macrahanas you mentioned it 405 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: before with this summer with a man named Tommy Blue. 406 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: Tommy Blue, like me, was born in nineteen sixty didn't 407 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: have the benefit you know, went to high school and 408 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: then and then went to work as a roofer on 409 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: the Mull of Kintyre, southwestern coast of Scotland. Played on 410 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: Paul McCartney's hit The Mule of Kintire when he was 411 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: a kid. He played the kettle drum on or played 412 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: the drum on it. And we were together for one 413 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: three hour period and we were comparing notes on marriage 414 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: and health and raising kids and golf. We met one time, 415 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: we had one round of golf. We may never meet again. 416 00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 1: I hope we do, but we may never meet again. 417 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: And I guarantee, I can't quote guarantee that, miss silly. 418 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: I just know that the round enriched me, I would 419 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,959 Speaker 1: say forever, actually, And I don't know what other sport 420 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: could do that. So what you said Alan about relationships 421 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: is exactly what I feel. But and you wrote about 422 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: that round and it made me smile because I on 423 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 1: your recommendation, I went to Macahonist and like the nineteen 424 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: ninety seven or ninety eight, and I just I just 425 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: rocked up on the first tea and I got paired 426 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,439 Speaker 1: with a couple of local guys and they were a 427 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: total delight and they invited me to dinner afterwards, and 428 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 1: and we had a whole connection, And yeah, it is it. 429 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: Golf is unique that way. And I'm not as adventuresome 430 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: as you are, like I when I'm traveling, I often, 431 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 1: not often, I sometimes get invited to play really nice 432 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: places with total strangers. I did you know. The invitations 433 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: come through social media and I almost never do it, 434 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: Like I really just want to play golf with my friends, 435 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: like and because I don't get to play that much 436 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: and it's kind of a special thing for me, so 437 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 1: I don't play by myself like the most fundamental thing 438 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,719 Speaker 1: about golf. To me, it's not the swing, it's not 439 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: making putts, it's just being with people that I love 440 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: and so um it's I've I definitely felt that in 441 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: reading the book, because there's there's so much love in 442 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: the book, not only from the protagonist, but it's it's 443 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: your love affair with the game. It's the the esteem 444 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: you hold the characters. It's uh, you know, you talking 445 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: about your honeymoon with Christine. The reader's kind of along 446 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: for the journey, Like I would say, the book is 447 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: sort of about golf, but it's mostly about like, it's 448 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 1: like a love story in a lot of ways, and 449 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: I think that's why I was. I was so charmed 450 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: by it. That's neat. Oh yeah, we can end it 451 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: right there if you wish. It would be absolutely fine 452 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: with me because that's lovely. Okay, well, okay, sure, but 453 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,479 Speaker 1: let me just ask you one thing, because you reference 454 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: our conversation men in Green a lot has changed in 455 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: in our in our typing lives and in the world. 456 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,880 Speaker 1: And do we write the Swinger before or after that? 457 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: Let me think here, it was well before yeah, that's yeah, 458 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: that was like two thousand. Well, if you if you're 459 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 1: not so well, But I remember asking this question. We 460 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: talked about, like why do books even matter anymore? Because 461 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: you know, my kids are teenagers were talking about on 462 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: different podcasts that they love to read books, but almost 463 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 1: none of their friends do. I mean, everything's on the phone, 464 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: and you know, I look, I look around. There's it's 465 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: it's not the there's just not the number it used 466 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: to be. Feeling like there was a dozen golf books 467 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: that came out every year. Now you get two or 468 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: three or four if that. And I don't are we dinosaurs? 469 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,199 Speaker 1: Like why are we still doing this? Like you and 470 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: I both love to write books, but but why I 471 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,959 Speaker 1: don't know. And and you said this when we were 472 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: doing that last time. We were talking about Ben and 473 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 1: grind some well, getting on ten years ago, down it's 474 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: a grind writing a book as a grind, I will 475 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: say this book and you and I shared this, Well, 476 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: this book was not a grind to write. And I've 477 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: had that experience at your time. When you and I 478 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: wrote The Swinger, it wasn't a grind. When I wrote 479 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: to the links Land, it wasn't a grind. Men and 480 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: Green wasn't a grind. The Tiger book was a grind. 481 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: I mean I could go right through it. I wrote 482 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: a book about the film director M. A. Shamalan. It 483 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: was a grind. It's a grind to write a book. 484 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: But I would say, you know you and I've written 485 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: literally thousands of short, medium and long magazine pieces and 486 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 1: now for the Internet, and of course you done a 487 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: lot of podcasting. But when I think back to my 488 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: writing life, the thing that gives me the greatest pride 489 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: and satisfaction are the books. And I think you have 490 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: to be very aware that it's a very egotistical proposition 491 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: to say I'm asking you to spend you know, the 492 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 1: time it's going to take you to read a two 493 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty page whatever it is book. You know, 494 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: some people are read in three hours, but most of 495 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: people it's gonna take longer than that. But part of 496 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: the part of the contract is, but I'm telling I 497 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: worked hard enough on this book that I think it's 498 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: going to be worth your time. And that's a great 499 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: feeling to know that you have the confidence to feel that, 500 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: to actually believe that. And I find that very satisfying. 501 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: And then and I know you have this experience too. 502 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 1: The full circle of you have an idea in your head, 503 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: you're ported out, you're write it up, the book goes out, 504 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,479 Speaker 1: people respond to it, the response comes back to you. 505 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: There's almost nothing in life. I can't really think of 506 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: anything in life like it. And I've had a correspondence now, 507 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: going back to the mid eighties with literally thousands and 508 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: thousands of readers, some of whom I only hear. Many 509 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 1: of them I only hear from once. But it's just 510 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: a great feeling to know that whatever it is I 511 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: tried to experience it, get down on a piece of paper, 512 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: whatever form the paper takes these days, resonated with somebody. 513 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: It's a great feeling. Actually, I would say I have 514 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: almost I mean, so I would have a need to 515 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: have that connection with people. It's a differ, very different 516 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: kind of relationship than what we were talking about before, 517 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: but it also is very much relationship, whether you hear 518 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: from the people or not, because that relationship starts with 519 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: the idea of bringing this book out and into into 520 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: the world and what you're saying about yourself and the 521 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: process of doing that, but at the same time being really, 522 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,400 Speaker 1: really really aware of the person on the other end 523 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: and what they are mayor may not get out of it. Yeah, oh, 524 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: now we get end the podcast us. No. No, I 525 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: think it's fundamental because the people who pick up this book, 526 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: I mean, there's parts of you on every page in 527 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: some ways, and I think it's nice to them to 528 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: know how much you care and how much you've invested 529 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: in it, because there are plenty of books that get 530 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: written fast and they're they're um, you know, they're driven 531 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: by market forces. But this was obviously a labor of love, 532 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: and in some ways it's it's forty years in the making. 533 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you talk about when you're caddying in your 534 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: caddy days, going back to the eighties, and there's there's 535 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: a lifetime of golf experiences on these pages. And so 536 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: I think that's why it means so much too, because 537 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: it's your life in one place. I mean, we're literally 538 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: on our honeymoon with you on your honeymoon together. Like 539 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: it's that's that's neat that that yes, that you know. 540 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, things happen in the seventies that 541 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: made me fall for this game, and and I hadn't 542 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: thought about them at all until writing this book. Like, um, 543 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: I went to a large public high school in Suffolk 544 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: County on Long Island. Uh, you know, it was a 545 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: different era. We three or four of us would sit 546 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: in the in the flatbed truck of Bill Sweeney's struck 547 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: going from the high school to the public course. We 548 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: were playing our practice rounds. We went through this semi 549 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: rural African American ar biborhood. They Sweeney stops the truck 550 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: one day and says, going to the Delhi. It's an 551 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: African American Dela going to the Delhi. And you know, 552 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: get me a jar pig speed. You know. They know 553 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: I'm the only kosher kid on the golf team. You know, 554 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: but just like weird, fun, happy odd stuff of life 555 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: that you take that lingers with you forever. So yeah, 556 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: it would be literally forty plus, you know, getting on, 557 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: getting on, I mean for me years in the making. Yeah, yeah, 558 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: because I mean you go back to earliest days in 559 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,719 Speaker 1: golf and the high school. Reminiscences are cute and like 560 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: it's a journey. I mean, of course, I've read all 561 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: of your books. I love them all, and some of these, 562 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: some of these there's yeah, of course there's I've in 563 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: other places I've read a little bit about this or that, 564 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: but it's neat to have it all in one place. 565 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like, I know you're not done, 566 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: You've got You've got plenty more in you. But I 567 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: feel like this book captured a golfing life and a 568 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: really equay and it wasn't just yours, it was it 569 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: was a bunch of them. But you know, you're the 570 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: three line, so that's off. It's a great read. Thank 571 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: you for your enthusiasm for my typing life. It's great 572 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: to know I've got at least one reader I've kind 573 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: of leave. I find it useful to think about one reader. 574 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: And I often think about Jophie or editor, because he's 575 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: a very sophisticated reader and a very savvy golf person, 576 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: and it's like, is he gonna get it? I've always 577 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: had that like sort of one person in mind, is 578 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: he or she? Like I would often think about my mom, 579 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: who nothing about golf. And I remember, this is getting 580 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: really off topic here, but I remember once reading a 581 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: letter to the editor of The Times. It was about 582 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: and the woman was complaining about the sports section coverage, 583 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: and she wrote, do you realize that in this story 584 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: you never said what sport you're talking about? And I 585 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: remember once being out of public course and it was 586 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: a it was a public course outside of Baltimore, and 587 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: it was a teacher teaching absolute beginners. And the question was, 588 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: how do you tell the difference between a six iron 589 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: and a nine iron? And the guy said, very patiently, 590 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: well to nine. They put a little mine underneath it 591 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: and that means nine six. But it's a great question 592 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: you have to it is a great question. You have 593 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: to allow for the reader's experience. And that's why so 594 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: that that's the meeting of the minds between well, it's 595 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: all a meeting of the minds. But anyway, I don't 596 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: know where that I was going with that. Thank you 597 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: for all this O. Yeah, I look forward to doing 598 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: this with your When When when is your live book 599 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: coming out? Early November? I'm sorry we have settled on 600 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: an exact date, but right around November first, I mean, 601 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: speaking of grinds, it would have been nice to have 602 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: a little more time. But in fact, I'm happy that 603 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: I have this deadline because I could work on this 604 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: book forever. I mean, it's um it's it's so rich 605 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: and there's so many layers to it. And I did 606 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: three phone interview today that we're just out of control. 607 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: And I feel like the book got seven percent better 608 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: than one day. It's just like I'm constantly learning things 609 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: and and and one person turns me onto something else 610 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: and I go down these different rabbit holes. So it's 611 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: an utterly fascinating project. But um, that book it Live 612 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: is a lip Live is a litmus test for personality disorder. 613 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: It will reveal, it will reveal everything you think about 614 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: the human condition. Live is a fascination onto itself. Yeah, 615 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: well you don't you know, yeah, go ahead, yeah yeah, 616 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: And it pops up in your book here and there, 617 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: and I enjoy your your sort of disdain like and 618 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: you're you're not not even for Live in general, but 619 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: just like, like like, this is not the golf that I 620 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: care about. I care about playing with my friends. I 621 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: care about the soul of the game, you know, the 622 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: people who are who are obsessed with a golf and 623 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: and it made me laugh a few of your little, 624 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: your little commentaries. But yeah, it's yeah, I think. And 625 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: and just to just to finish that thought, uh, from 626 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: my end, I love professional golf and and I think 627 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: the professional golfers should make what they can make, of course, 628 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: but I think a professional golf at some level, not 629 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: at every level, should be above the fray and should 630 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: have a certain element of grace to it and not 631 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: appear to be grubby and right now, as it has 632 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: been said, on both sides, there are fine people on 633 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,800 Speaker 1: both sides, of course, but there's a lot of money 634 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 1: grubbing going on on both sides, and I do find that. 635 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: Just say, but talent but as our as our former 636 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: editor of Mark Mulvey used to say, talent must be paid, 637 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: I do believe talent must be but there's still that within. Really. 638 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: Look if some if Jophy would have said, yeah, well 639 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: I want you to write a book about you know, 640 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: amateur golf, and I want to pay you five billion 641 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 1: dollars for I would say, please don't because I don't 642 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: want that pressure. One and two you'll go out of business. 643 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: So it's just not it will never make any money 644 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: like that period impossible. Uh so don't. Or I would 645 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: say no, uh you know never. This is crazy. This 646 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,839 Speaker 1: is part of your charm though, because most people would say, okay, 647 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 1: I'll take five million dollars and I'll write the book 648 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: I want to write anyway, But you're it's it's a 649 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: man's got to have a code to quote the wire, 650 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: and you have a code, Michael, and that's that's one 651 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,439 Speaker 1: of the things we appreciate about you. So all right, Well, 652 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: the book is the Ball in the Air. Oh it 653 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 1: was great fun and as Michael alluded to, um there 654 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,399 Speaker 1: is a an excerpt on fire picklet dot com will 655 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: give you a little taste of it, but just a 656 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: little one. It's I think sometimes when you when you 657 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: watch a preview of a movie, after ninety seconds, you 658 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: feel like you've seen the whole movie. But this book's 659 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 1: scene always we go to a lot of movies. Christine 660 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 1: always says, I just saw the whole exactly, but we 661 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: we we come in late after the trailers just for 662 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 1: that reason they give away way to do. But in 663 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: this case, have you seen this new Friary Brothers movie 664 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: about the coach with the with the kids with the differences. No, 665 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: but I've heard it's good. What do you think I'd 666 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: like to see it, But they gave away so much 667 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: in the trailer. But I still want to see it 668 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: because it's yeah, you know, Woody Harrelson, it's I know, yeah, No, 669 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,839 Speaker 1: I'm interested as well. But the point I've been trying 670 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: to make you keep interrupting the Michael is that this excerpt, 671 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 1: while very while very charming and fun to read, only 672 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: hints at the depth of this book. So enjoy the excerpt, 673 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: enjoy this podcast, but I would implore you to read 674 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,279 Speaker 1: the actual book because there's so much there, and I 675 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:41,240 Speaker 1: think anyone who loves golf, loves writing, loves the human condition. Well, 676 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: we'll take a lot out of this. So without embarrassing 677 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,359 Speaker 1: Michael any further, we're gonna we are now actually going 678 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: to end this podcast. But thanks for timeing Mike, thank 679 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: you and thanks for listening, and thank you all. It's 680 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,399 Speaker 1: another podcast and we'll keep we'll keep at it. That's 681 00:36:55,400 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: the end. Thanks. Yeah, I played the win, made a 682 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: fortune with my shot game. Man, I run the table. 683 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 1: Never thought I could fall down. The wintertime hit me 684 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: like a cannon. The ball and now I can't shake this, 685 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: losing the streak. Every road I take is a dead 686 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: end stream. I got thoughts in my head, can't get 687 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 1: them out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about. 688 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: I got thoughts in my head. I can't get them out, 689 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: trying not to think what I'm thinking about.