1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,960
Speaker 1: Oh, this is a doozy folks. Uh. We are sharing

2
00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:10,400
Speaker 1: a classic episode that we really enjoyed about the following

3
00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:17,000
Speaker 1: crazy thing. There is no federal account of how many

4
00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,560
Speaker 1: people disappear in national parks? Do you remember this one?

5
00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,040
Speaker 1: I remember it well and it comes up quite often

6
00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,799
Speaker 1: actually in other stories that we talked about on stuff

7
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,400
Speaker 1: that it wants you to know. Hundreds of people in

8
00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,240
Speaker 1: fact go missing in US national parks every year. Um,

9
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,519
Speaker 1: and there really isn't a place where you can look

10
00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,920
Speaker 1: at an actual number for that. And David Polites is

11
00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,159
Speaker 1: an expert in this. He wrote a book called Missing

12
00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:44,360
Speaker 1: for One one that was made into a documentary. UM.

13
00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,360
Speaker 1: Really thoughtful, interesting guy, and we had a great chat

14
00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,440
Speaker 1: with him back in And spoiler, this is a little

15
00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,480
Speaker 1: bit of homework fellow conspiracy realists, because I think we

16
00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,920
Speaker 1: might have David back on in the future. Here it

17
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,960
Speaker 1: is from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History

18
00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,679
Speaker 1: is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now

19
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,640
Speaker 1: or learn the stuff they don't want you to know.

20
00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,480
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

21
00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,280
Speaker 1: name is Noll. They call me Ben and you are

22
00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,200
Speaker 1: you that makes this stuff? They don't want you to know.

23
00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:35,080
Speaker 1: As always, we're joined with our super producer Alex w

24
00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,600
Speaker 1: and the ones and twos? Are you gonna wave? Is

25
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,560
Speaker 1: it all? Has he always been there? Is it like

26
00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:41,760
Speaker 1: the shining? Is it like that scening, that scene the shining?

27
00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,880
Speaker 1: I guess it's like it's happily ever after from now on.

28
00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,080
Speaker 1: It does get to a place where the things that

29
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:48,880
Speaker 1: are in your life at the moment get to a

30
00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:50,960
Speaker 1: point where they feel like they've just always been like that,

31
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,200
Speaker 1: even if it's only been a week for one thing.

32
00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,640
Speaker 1: That's very normal to people who live in the US.

33
00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,520
Speaker 1: It's just the sheer side of this country, the sheer

34
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:06,000
Speaker 1: enormity of it, to those purple mountains, majesty, It's yeah,

35
00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,160
Speaker 1: it's huge. And we have large swaths of land that

36
00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,440
Speaker 1: are largely unpopulated by human beings, and a lot of

37
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,239
Speaker 1: these lands are allocated by the government as a place

38
00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:23,880
Speaker 1: where you can go right, and every year millions of

39
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,720
Speaker 1: people visit public parks, go one day hikes, go on

40
00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:33,760
Speaker 1: more um more involved treks, you know, long term camping.

41
00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:39,519
Speaker 1: There is a darker side to some of these explorations,

42
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,160
Speaker 1: and the fact of the matter is that not all

43
00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:48,040
Speaker 1: of the people who go into the wild return many

44
00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,720
Speaker 1: in fact go missing. And for years now, folks, you

45
00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,880
Speaker 1: have been writing to Matt Nolan I asking us to

46
00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,119
Speaker 1: take a closer look at this phenomenon of people who

47
00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,799
Speaker 1: just go miss and not just in in um wilderness

48
00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,480
Speaker 1: in the US as we'll find, but in places in

49
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:10,520
Speaker 1: other places around the world. And the question is what happens?

50
00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:15,440
Speaker 1: How do we track this? And in our exploration of

51
00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,920
Speaker 1: this topic, we went directly to the source to the

52
00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,680
Speaker 1: most well known expert on disappearances in national parks, Ladies

53
00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,079
Speaker 1: and gentlemen. Today, in this episode, we are joined by

54
00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:31,560
Speaker 1: David Politis, the prolific author of numerous works, the mastermind

55
00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,440
Speaker 1: behind the Missing four one one series, and the creator

56
00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,880
Speaker 1: of the new Missing four one one documentary. Welcome to

57
00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,440
Speaker 1: the show, David, Hey, thanks a million, guys. I appreciate

58
00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,760
Speaker 1: being here. So I guess the first things first, if

59
00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,240
Speaker 1: we want to file it under that category for everybody

60
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,600
Speaker 1: listening out there, could you tell us a little bit

61
00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,120
Speaker 1: more about the Missing four one one phenomenon, which began

62
00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,800
Speaker 1: as a book series. Is that correct? Correct? I'm a

63
00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,440
Speaker 1: former police officers spent twenty years in California and municipal

64
00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,200
Speaker 1: department there, and after I left, I started to do do

65
00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:13,840
Speaker 1: some research in a national park and some two National

66
00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 1: park rangers knew me from other books I had written.

67
00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,599
Speaker 1: They were following me around. Uh Later on, I left

68
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,960
Speaker 1: the park went back to my room independently. They each

69
00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,159
Speaker 1: came back and went to the room, knocked on the

70
00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:26,560
Speaker 1: door and said that they had something to tell me,

71
00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:29,560
Speaker 1: and they knew who I was. They knew I had

72
00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,840
Speaker 1: investigative work I've done in the past, and they said,

73
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,120
Speaker 1: we have a story for you. And what they had

74
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,800
Speaker 1: said was is that they had worked at other parks,

75
00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,520
Speaker 1: and they had worked other missing persons cases in those

76
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,640
Speaker 1: national parks. They eventually got together. They talked about compared

77
00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,240
Speaker 1: notes at the park that they were at and they

78
00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,960
Speaker 1: thought there were some peculiarities there that needed to be

79
00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,520
Speaker 1: looked into. Namely, during a search, during that first seven

80
00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,360
Speaker 1: to ten days that someone goes missing, there's a lot

81
00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,440
Speaker 1: of publicity, there's a lot of press, there's a lot

82
00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,159
Speaker 1: of people looking for the missing person. At the end

83
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,680
Speaker 1: of that, in the ten days, there's nothing. Everything stops,

84
00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:09,080
Speaker 1: there's no follow up, there's no investigation, there's essentially nothing

85
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,720
Speaker 1: more that happens. And when they looked into it. They

86
00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,120
Speaker 1: thought that the locations that these people went missing were

87
00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,240
Speaker 1: odd many and went missing in places that weren't deep

88
00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,560
Speaker 1: in the woods, but might have been fairly close to

89
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,960
Speaker 1: the center of the park, or a populated area, or

90
00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,159
Speaker 1: a location where a lot of people should have seen

91
00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:30,880
Speaker 1: what happened. And they the more they looked into it,

92
00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:32,960
Speaker 1: and the more they tried to find out information, they

93
00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,520
Speaker 1: were stymied themselves. They couldn't get some reports, and they

94
00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,240
Speaker 1: thought the whole thing was just strange. So I said

95
00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,160
Speaker 1: I'd look into it. I left the park the next day,

96
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,280
Speaker 1: called a couple of law enforcement friends. I said, this

97
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,440
Speaker 1: is what I heard. See if there's any validity to it.

98
00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:48,560
Speaker 1: You know. Later on they called me back and said, wow,

99
00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,320
Speaker 1: there's something here. There are a lot of disappearances and

100
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,200
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of follow up, and there's not

101
00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:58,640
Speaker 1: a lot of information available. So the National Park Service

102
00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:03,200
Speaker 1: has a contingent of National Park Police officers and they're

103
00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,160
Speaker 1: all trained at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. They

104
00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:11,320
Speaker 1: get outstanding training. It's the big department. And we knew

105
00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,920
Speaker 1: that if we filed a series of Freedom of Information

106
00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,520
Speaker 1: Act requests against the National Park Police, this could be

107
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,119
Speaker 1: a jump off point for our investigation into these missing people.

108
00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,240
Speaker 1: So the first thing I did was filed against them

109
00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,640
Speaker 1: for a list of missing people, and within six weeks

110
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,240
Speaker 1: I get a notice back from him. An attorney calls

111
00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:31,919
Speaker 1: me from the Park Service and says, why do you

112
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:37,560
Speaker 1: want the information? And I know from reading the Freedom

113
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,000
Speaker 1: of Information Act they can't use the rationale behind why

114
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,800
Speaker 1: you make a request for determining if they're going to

115
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,080
Speaker 1: give you the information or not. And I told him

116
00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:48,880
Speaker 1: that and he said, no, no, no, you're gonna get

117
00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,920
Speaker 1: the information. We just want to know why you're using it.

118
00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,440
Speaker 1: And I said, just doing some research. And the person

119
00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,120
Speaker 1: then came back and said, well, we don't have any

120
00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,280
Speaker 1: list of missing people. And I said, wait a mint.

121
00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,320
Speaker 1: You guys have a huge law enforcement group. I could

122
00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,840
Speaker 1: go to any small to medium sized law enforcement agency

123
00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,160
Speaker 1: in the United States, walk into their chief's office, and

124
00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,240
Speaker 1: within an hour he would have a list of all

125
00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,760
Speaker 1: the missing people in his jurisdiction. Now you're telling me,

126
00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:21,320
Speaker 1: in your large jurisdiction you don't have any lists missing people.

127
00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,200
Speaker 1: He said no, Well, if you go on to the

128
00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,600
Speaker 1: website of the National Park Service and you kind of

129
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,880
Speaker 1: look around there, they have a lot of lists. One

130
00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,320
Speaker 1: of the more interesting ones is a list of all

131
00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:38,040
Speaker 1: the movies made on National Park Service property. So they

132
00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,200
Speaker 1: know the importance of keeping lists and the importance of

133
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,800
Speaker 1: keeping lists of missing people, and they chose not to

134
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,600
Speaker 1: give it to us. So I was a published author

135
00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,240
Speaker 1: at the time, and I used an exemption, and I said,

136
00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,720
Speaker 1: I want to use my exemption, and I would like

137
00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,800
Speaker 1: to get the information from your agency, and if you

138
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,280
Speaker 1: and have it like you claim, I want you to

139
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,320
Speaker 1: put the list together for me. So they get back

140
00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,200
Speaker 1: to me later and they said, well, we did a

141
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,200
Speaker 1: little search and your books aren't in enough libraries to

142
00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:16,200
Speaker 1: qualify for the exemption. Well, folks, there is no such qualifier.

143
00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,520
Speaker 1: It says if you are a published author, this qualifies period.

144
00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:22,800
Speaker 1: And I reminded him of that, and they said, well,

145
00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:27,440
Speaker 1: this is just an internal policy we have. Okay, So

146
00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,240
Speaker 1: let's just pretend that I want to pay for the information.

147
00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:32,720
Speaker 1: How much are you going to charge me for a

148
00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,720
Speaker 1: list of missing people from Yosemite National Park and then

149
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,240
Speaker 1: a list from your entire jurisdiction. He goes, we'll get

150
00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,600
Speaker 1: back to you. They get back to me and they said,

151
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,800
Speaker 1: well for a list from Yosemite National Park, it's gonna

152
00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,280
Speaker 1: cost you thirty four thousand dollars. And if you want

153
00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,640
Speaker 1: to list from the entire National Park Service, it's going

154
00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,360
Speaker 1: to cost you one point four million dollars. Wow, what

155
00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:59,240
Speaker 1: what kind of justification did they have for that number? None?

156
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,640
Speaker 1: They said that they would use an analyst at six

157
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:05,880
Speaker 1: an hour, and they figured it would take them that

158
00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,320
Speaker 1: long to put it together. Now, since then, I've learned

159
00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,680
Speaker 1: a lot. I shouldn't just have these lists just available

160
00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,040
Speaker 1: like in a database, Like can they just send you

161
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,920
Speaker 1: a spreadsheet? Like? What is it? What does it take?

162
00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,720
Speaker 1: Such meticulous mining and paying some specialists. It seems like

163
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,600
Speaker 1: that's the whole point of keeping these kinds of records

164
00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,280
Speaker 1: right exactly. And I know that there's I'm not the

165
00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,559
Speaker 1: sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to some things.

166
00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,360
Speaker 1: So I reached out to some investigative journalists I know,

167
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,120
Speaker 1: and I threw this by him, and I said, do

168
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,520
Speaker 1: you believe they don't have a list? I could not

169
00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:39,240
Speaker 1: find one journalist that said, there's there's no possibility in

170
00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,200
Speaker 1: this world that the National Park Service Police doesn't have

171
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,240
Speaker 1: a list of missing people in their jurisdiction. Everyone says

172
00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:46,840
Speaker 1: that they do. They just don't want to give it up.

173
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,040
Speaker 1: But the rationale behind this, and since then, this was

174
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,720
Speaker 1: six seven years ago now is I've had several people

175
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,880
Speaker 1: like yourself step up and say, hey, we will buy

176
00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,480
Speaker 1: the National Park Service a laptop and put Excel on it.

177
00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,480
Speaker 1: And every month there's called a month. There's a monthly

178
00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,040
Speaker 1: report that comes in from every National Park Service property

179
00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,680
Speaker 1: from their superintendent of the highlights of what happens in

180
00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,640
Speaker 1: that park. Somebody goes missing, somebody gets killed, whatever. Well,

181
00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:22,360
Speaker 1: they could have an intern which costs nothing, screen those

182
00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,640
Speaker 1: monthly documents and put every person's name on an Excel

183
00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,240
Speaker 1: spreadsheet on that laptop. It would essentially cost them nothing.

184
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,720
Speaker 1: They chose not to publicize this. Now, interestingly, just within

185
00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,720
Speaker 1: the last month, they've started to put one or two

186
00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,680
Speaker 1: people on their website from each park that's gone missing.

187
00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,960
Speaker 1: We're trying to understand the rationale why they're putting those

188
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,280
Speaker 1: people up as missing, but not the vast numbers that

189
00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,480
Speaker 1: are missing in the park. Namely, the people that they're

190
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,280
Speaker 1: putting missing are people I've already written about or talked about.

191
00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,560
Speaker 1: But they're not putting up all of them. And I

192
00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:06,360
Speaker 1: don't know why and it's frustrating because it's such a

193
00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,720
Speaker 1: roadblock to future work. The amount of time and energy

194
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,920
Speaker 1: we have to expand to find a case that's thirty

195
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,080
Speaker 1: or forty years old where somebody's never been found, That

196
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,720
Speaker 1: energy is huge. But they're forcing us to do it

197
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,559
Speaker 1: because they won't help at all. And this, uh, this

198
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,040
Speaker 1: investigation just just for everyone in the audience. When when

199
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,680
Speaker 1: we're talking about investigating a specific case, a specific case

200
00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:34,200
Speaker 1: of a missing person, this doesn't just involve, uh, you know,

201
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,680
Speaker 1: reading newspapers of the time. This also involves heavy research

202
00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,520
Speaker 1: into the staff of the part at the time, the

203
00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,080
Speaker 1: rangers that would be there, any local law enforcement. This

204
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:51,040
Speaker 1: can include family interviews. This is a exhaustive process, not

205
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,440
Speaker 1: to mention any kind of search and rescue efforts that

206
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,200
Speaker 1: you know are deployed, as as depicted in your film UM,

207
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 1: which I'd like to go into maybe a couple of

208
00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,319
Speaker 1: the cases that are in the film, when in particular

209
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,120
Speaker 1: the case of a young boy who turned up missing

210
00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,679
Speaker 1: UM and was surrounded mainly by family and I think

211
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,280
Speaker 1: a family friend and his grandfather, and it's as you described,

212
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, a very quick disappearance where the child was

213
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,680
Speaker 1: following his parents to like a fishing creek, and then

214
00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,280
Speaker 1: they turned around and he was gone. And they stayed

215
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,240
Speaker 1: at the campground for three days with police and you know,

216
00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:35,120
Speaker 1: local uh citizens um volunteering to do a kind of

217
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,280
Speaker 1: search party. And nothing came of this ultimately, and it

218
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,679
Speaker 1: ultimately the case was dropped. But how how does this

219
00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,960
Speaker 1: Why was this case such an interesting one that you

220
00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,000
Speaker 1: chose to kind of feature it as sort of like

221
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,800
Speaker 1: a bookend in your film? Um, how is this kind

222
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,439
Speaker 1: of like an interesting case study of these types of situations?

223
00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:59,040
Speaker 1: So if you, if you by chance read five missing

224
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,319
Speaker 1: persons cases, you're you're probably going to find five sets

225
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,599
Speaker 1: of circumstances that are totally different without a lot of commonality.

226
00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:12,480
Speaker 1: Now you read five thousand missing person's cases, and soon

227
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,240
Speaker 1: you're going to see that specific points start to jump

228
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:21,559
Speaker 1: out at you, and certain commonalities keep replicating themselves time

229
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,520
Speaker 1: after time. If you look at just one case, like

230
00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:30,720
Speaker 1: the Coon's case, your your intuition may go to, oh,

231
00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,320
Speaker 1: you know, it was a human interaction. It was some

232
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,680
Speaker 1: type of crime committed against the child by someone maybe

233
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,920
Speaker 1: at the campsite or someone nearby, I know who did this,

234
00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,880
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But if you look at hundreds of

235
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:47,040
Speaker 1: missing persons cases, you see that law enforcement caused. Pete

236
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:52,000
Speaker 1: calls people at the scene suspects many times when they

237
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,280
Speaker 1: get frustrated that they can't solve it. In the Coon's case,

238
00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,520
Speaker 1: the child has never been found, and it just so

239
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:01,679
Speaker 1: happened that we had a crew up there as this

240
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:06,680
Speaker 1: was evolving and occurring. Now, initially you're gonna you're gonna think, well,

241
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,600
Speaker 1: this isn't so interesting, except there's so many side lights

242
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,640
Speaker 1: to a missing person's case that people don't understand and

243
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:19,440
Speaker 1: how law enforcement goes about investigating those cases. And as

244
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,280
Speaker 1: for me, I was involved in a case in northern

245
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:26,000
Speaker 1: California where a girl disappeared. Well, the FBI was involved,

246
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,280
Speaker 1: just like they weren't the Coon's case, and they named

247
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,680
Speaker 1: the father as a suspect. In this case, I was.

248
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,640
Speaker 1: I was there on and it wasn't for weeks until

249
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,800
Speaker 1: they finally said, you know what, the father is in

250
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,120
Speaker 1: a suspect. And then weeks later they end up arresting

251
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,800
Speaker 1: a suspect charging with murder and he's convicted. So people

252
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:50,880
Speaker 1: that are named suspects aren't necessarily the ones who did it,

253
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,160
Speaker 1: and if they were, they would have filed charges in

254
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,800
Speaker 1: the coon's case. There's not one piece of hard evidence

255
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,920
Speaker 1: to point to anyone committing any of this crime. Yet,

256
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,680
Speaker 1: if you look at that case and you compare it

257
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,640
Speaker 1: to the profile points that we've established in six years

258
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,440
Speaker 1: of seven years of research, you'll notice that it's a

259
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:16,080
Speaker 1: dead on match. Happens at a remote campsite. The parents state,

260
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,320
Speaker 1: they turn around, the child's gone. They bring in canines.

261
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,200
Speaker 1: The canines can't pick up a scent. They bring in

262
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,440
Speaker 1: cadaver dogs that smell the trucks and the vehicles that

263
00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,880
Speaker 1: were at the scene in case they transported dead body.

264
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,040
Speaker 1: They can't pick up a scent. All of these things

265
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,480
Speaker 1: start to lead that Wow, you know what. That's one

266
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,160
Speaker 1: of the profile points that are established in the Missing

267
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,840
Speaker 1: four on one books after reading thousands of cases. The

268
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,520
Speaker 1: handlers bring a dog to the scene. The dog turns around,

269
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,760
Speaker 1: sits down, doesn't want to can't find a scent. They

270
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,480
Speaker 1: bring in cadaver dogs. Cadaver dogters look around, they can't

271
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,200
Speaker 1: find a scent. The parents say, you know, the child

272
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,200
Speaker 1: was right here, we turned around, it was gone. Well

273
00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,480
Speaker 1: it sounds stupid when you first hear that, but the

274
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,440
Speaker 1: reality of it is. It's happened hundreds and hundreds of

275
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,640
Speaker 1: times if you read the books, and law enforcement when

276
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,480
Speaker 1: they get frustrated, they'll say, well, the only thing we

277
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 1: can think of is that the parents or the relatives

278
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:14,920
Speaker 1: or somebody in the area must have taken the kid.

279
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:20,480
Speaker 1: But there's no evidence. And like I keep saying, if

280
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,680
Speaker 1: you're going to accuse somebody, why don't you arrest them

281
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:28,040
Speaker 1: because there's nobody that's been found. There's nobody that's been arrested.

282
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,480
Speaker 1: It's a big who done it? And I'm not gonna

283
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,680
Speaker 1: say that nobody at the theme did do it. I'm

284
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,840
Speaker 1: just saying right now, I'm I'm somebody who lives in

285
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,400
Speaker 1: the world of facts, and there's no hard facts to

286
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:43,680
Speaker 1: suspect anybody there of doing anything other than law enforcement

287
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,560
Speaker 1: calling him a suspect. And they do say, well, you

288
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,720
Speaker 1: know they failed the polygraph. Well I've heard that hundreds

289
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,040
Speaker 1: of times in other cases where they called other people's

290
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,320
Speaker 1: suspects and they were later cleared. A mind of reasons

291
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,840
Speaker 1: for failing in polygraph, and that's that's one of the

292
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,960
Speaker 1: main reasons why polygraph aren't allowed in criminal court. Yes,

293
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 1: it's uh, I'm really glad that you mentioned that part, David,

294
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,680
Speaker 1: because more and more, Um, I think more and more

295
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:15,159
Speaker 1: people are aware that polygraphs are I don't want to

296
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,439
Speaker 1: say pseudo science, but there's in exact science, perhaps, and

297
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,520
Speaker 1: in exact science there is very there's way more compelling

298
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:28,000
Speaker 1: arguments against polygraph being used because people get nervous, right. Uh.

299
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:32,359
Speaker 1: There are also various ways to trigger polygraph in the

300
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,959
Speaker 1: worst case scenario. This may be an interesting insight, Uh,

301
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,280
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, the idea that law enforcement might name

302
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:47,240
Speaker 1: innocent bystanders as suspects, perhaps out of frustration, and with

303
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 1: some of these commonalities that you're describing here, David, that

304
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,840
Speaker 1: the cadaver dogs catch no scent, the child disappeared promptly. UM.

305
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 1: We've we've found some other commonalities that you have listed

306
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,560
Speaker 1: in the Missing four one one series, and we'd like

307
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,160
Speaker 1: to explore those in depth after a word from our

308
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:22,959
Speaker 1: sponsor and we've returned. Before the break, we talked a

309
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,360
Speaker 1: little bit about the additional commonalities that can be found

310
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:33,520
Speaker 1: or profile points here and in Missing America four one one,

311
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:38,159
Speaker 1: North America and beyond. Uh, David, we have a we

312
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,080
Speaker 1: have a couple of commonalities here that I wanted to

313
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,800
Speaker 1: spend some time asking you about. But one thing that

314
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,919
Speaker 1: really really stuck out, both in our interview today and

315
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,160
Speaker 1: when we had spoken a little bit earlier, was that

316
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:58,080
Speaker 1: when when children, specifically when when children have disappeared in

317
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 1: various cases, they they are found in these incredible places

318
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,320
Speaker 1: or their their bodies are recovered in places that are

319
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 1: extremely anomalous. Could you tell us a little bit about

320
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,680
Speaker 1: this factor this phenomenon. Sure? If one of the first

321
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 1: of all, one of the things that I think the

322
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,440
Speaker 1: audience needs to understand is the vetting factor that we

323
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,119
Speaker 1: use before we'll even include a case in any of

324
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 1: the books or in any of the studies. One of

325
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,320
Speaker 1: the first things is is that if there's any evidence

326
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,240
Speaker 1: of human intervention and abduction, any criminal activity, we won't

327
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,560
Speaker 1: use it. If there for adult or child, if it's

328
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 1: a voluntary disappearance, meaning mental health is at stake, we

329
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,560
Speaker 1: won't use it. If there's any evidence of animal predation,

330
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,720
Speaker 1: you know, animal attack, killing, dragging away, anything like that,

331
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 1: we won't use the case. So what we're left with

332
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 1: is a series of who done it's and in percent

333
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:05,439
Speaker 1: of the cases or more maybe there's never even a

334
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,040
Speaker 1: suspect named in the case. The coon's case was one

335
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,240
Speaker 1: of those weird cases where we happened to be there

336
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,360
Speaker 1: while it was happening, and we filmed it. Now, there's

337
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,760
Speaker 1: another case in the film where a two year old

338
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 1: child walking along a mountain trail, supposedly being watched by

339
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 1: some friends of the family. He gets out of their sight,

340
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 1: he disappears. Four years later, the remains are found fifty

341
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 1: ft above the trail. Now, myself and a film crew

342
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 1: went up there and essentially had to do it on

343
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 1: our hands and knees. We probably should have had ropes.

344
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,640
Speaker 1: It was so steep to get to the location where

345
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 1: those remains were found. Now, when I give up speech

346
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 1: in front of a conference, I asked people in the audience,

347
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,439
Speaker 1: I say, so, how many of your parents? And I

348
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,800
Speaker 1: asked him if your child, at two years old was

349
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 1: left in the woods and you walked away, what do

350
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 1: you think that child would do? And some of the

351
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 1: parents say, well, at two years old, that child would

352
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 1: have played in the dirt and probably gone to sleep

353
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 1: right there, Or maybe they would have walked downhill fifty yards,

354
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 1: found something interesting, sat down, played and gone to sleep.

355
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,200
Speaker 1: Then I asked him how many would have walked up hill,

356
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,920
Speaker 1: you know hardy. Anybody ever raises their hand, they think

357
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: on my child, and there's no way would walk uphill

358
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 1: and exert energy. And then I put a table up

359
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 1: that's in one of my books that shows many, many

360
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 1: cases where small children are found at phenomenal heights from

361
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: where they were last seen. And when those children are found,

362
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 1: there's no evidence of any animal attack, any human attack.

363
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 1: They're just found their deceased. Many times at autopsy they

364
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,159
Speaker 1: can't even determine the cause the cause of death, which

365
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 1: is unusual. There's also a table I showed phenomenal distances

366
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 1: that small children take. And also in the movie there's

367
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 1: a case where a two year old disappears in this

368
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: rural area and nineteen hours later they're found twelve miles

369
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 1: away over two mountain ranges, barely alive, and the person

370
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 1: when interviewed as a small age of course, they don't

371
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 1: remember anything. Now, the reason these are important is it's

372
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:21,360
Speaker 1: easy for us as adults to understand that small children

373
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 1: covering phenomenal distances is highly unusual. Small children going up

374
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 1: in phenomenal heights is highly unusual and probably not not

375
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 1: it probably can't occur. So how do they get there. Well,

376
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 1: these incidents occur in areas where there aren't other people.

377
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,679
Speaker 1: It's not like somebody could have taken the kid and

378
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: done this, or carry them or forcibly abducted them. These

379
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: are in areas that are really remote when these things

380
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:58,199
Speaker 1: occur and there's no evidence. Remember, there's no dogs that

381
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 1: contract this, because that's the most common profile point. Canines

382
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 1: can't track the victim or professional trackers that are brought

383
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: in find no tracks leaving that scene. So how does

384
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: the victim get from point to point? That's the commonality

385
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 1: that nobody can understand, and that's probably one of the

386
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: most concerning points that I get from readers is how

387
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 1: does this happen? And where does this information come from?

388
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: It comes from search and rescue reports, law enforcement reports,

389
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:35,360
Speaker 1: missing person reports, interviews with families, interviews with law enforcement

390
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: people or search and rescue people, and that's where most

391
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: of the information gets gleaned from. Dave. In one of

392
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 1: the cases that you had just mentioned where the child

393
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 1: was carried up to a height that you guys had

394
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: to travel use ropes to travel to. In in the film,

395
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: it mentions that at least the law enforcement that was

396
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: interviewed they seem to mention that they believed it was

397
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,719
Speaker 1: an animal attack. When you're when you're going through and

398
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: researching these cases, because you, guys don't you don't look

399
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: at cases that are definitely animal attacks. So it sounds

400
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: like law enforcement is trying to make pieces fit to

401
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 1: solve a case. Great point, guys, great point. So initially,

402
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: when we looked at this case, exactly correct, the press reports,

403
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: the interviews the sheriff gave said, oh, yeah, it was

404
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 1: a mountain lion attack. So initially we kind of stepped

405
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 1: back and look at that, and then we started to

406
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: dig deeper. Well, the victims dad wasn't at the scene

407
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 1: and always thought that this was unusual. Well, at the

408
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: press conference on this event, search and rescue people that

409
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: had gone up there and recovered the remains had told

410
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: the father that they found the pants of the child

411
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 1: turned inside out at the scene. Yet at the press conference,

412
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: the sheriff told them, hey, put the pants right side,

413
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,439
Speaker 1: let's show him. And when the dad asked the sheriff

414
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: why he did, dad, he walked away from the father.

415
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: So the dad takes all the evidence and all the

416
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: reports and presents it to multiple mountain lion experts and said, hey,

417
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 1: what's your opinion about what happened to my son? And

418
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: each of them said, well, it wasn't an animal predation case.

419
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: And I don't know why the sheriff said it. And

420
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: on all of the clothing that was found, there was

421
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 1: no blood on any of the clothing. So the sheriff

422
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: made a statement to call the community to make it

423
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 1: appear as though they had the answers, and in reality

424
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: there were no answers. And you gotta you gotta lean

425
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: on the experts and maybe not one. And the father

426
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: understood this, that's why he went to multiple and independently

427
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: they all said the same thing. So it you know,

428
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 1: that case is is a huge Who done it? What

429
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: happened to this child? How did they get five fifty

430
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: ft up the side of this cliff? Essentially? Why wasn't

431
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: of blood on the clothing? Why were the pants turned

432
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: inside out? It goes on and on. Was that the

433
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: case where they also found like a single tooth They

434
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 1: found a single tooth on top of a log in

435
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: at about ninetet in elevation horrendous winters, blazing gals snow

436
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: up to ten feet in that area. How did the

437
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 1: too skin on top of the log and was sitting there.

438
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: It's also like there's a crime scene photo in the

439
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: film and it literally is just sitting there. There's no blood,

440
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: it looks completely clean. Like that's just very unsettled. It

441
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: was it was four years later, right, or something to

442
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: that effect, when the body was recovered. Just just to

443
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: be Devil's advocate, I'm assuming there was there were other

444
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 1: animals who came along and took care of the body. Unfortunately.

445
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: One interesting factor that's explored in in the books as

446
00:26:54,480 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: well is the concept of geographical clusters of an unusual

447
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 1: number of disappearances happening over time in uh specific regions

448
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: or areas. Could you could you tell us a little

449
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: bit about this concept and how you and your team

450
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: discovered it. Sure. When when I was in law enforcement,

451
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: I worked a couple of big teams that would work

452
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: serial rapists, robbers, burglars, and one of the things we

453
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: used was a map, a pin map, and every time

454
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: a crime occurred, we'd put a pin on the map,

455
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,479
Speaker 1: and we usually knew that the first crime that somebody

456
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 1: did was usually the closest to their home, and they

457
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 1: would start to work outwards. And as I started read

458
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 1: through hundreds of reports. A few locations just stuck out

459
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: in my mind. Hey, I read about this before. So

460
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: after a couple of years, I started to have piles

461
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: of reports in my living room of different locations, and

462
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: as time went on, certain piles got larger, and eventually

463
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: I got more piles. Now, I don't like to say

464
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: this as a concept, because I don't deal in concept

465
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: and theories. Two things you want to find in any

466
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: of my books is any theories about what's happening or

467
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: any possible suspects as to what did this. I lay

468
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: out a series of facts, and facts are the most

469
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 1: important thing you're going to read about, and in a

470
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: lot of books you're gonna hear a lot of wild

471
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: theories and conjecture. I don't lay that out. I'd let

472
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: you come to whatever decision you want to come to,

473
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: even though the facts that you read are highly strange.

474
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: There are factually fifty nine geographical clusters of missing people

475
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: in North America to fit the profile points that we

476
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: laid out, And the biggest cluster of missing people in

477
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: the world is your Semite National Park. Now, some people

478
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: may say, well, yeah, but you know that probably probably

479
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: has the most visitors well, yeah, but if you look

480
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: at the circumstances that we've laid after these missing people,

481
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: I don't care if it's downtown Paris or downtown New York.

482
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: That's strange that a lot of these people have never

483
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: been found, even though they disappeared in an area where

484
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: they should have been found. Canines should have been able

485
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: to track. There should have been an evidence track or

486
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: professional trackers to be able to follow these people. Um,

487
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: these warn't voluntary disappearances. There were no mental health issues.

488
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: Where are these people now? One of the predominant points

489
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: we haven't talked about yet, but boulders, boulder fields, and

490
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: granite are somehow involved in this, meaning bodies are found

491
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: in boulder fields. People disappear in boulder fields or around granite.

492
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: And that's another one of those points that came out

493
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: after reading hundreds and hundreds. Well, where's probably the biggest

494
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: boulder field and granite location in the world other than Yosemite.

495
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: And I know that's strange, but when you look at

496
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: the surrounding area and how many people have disappeared in

497
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: and around Yosemite, coupled with other locations in the world

498
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 1: that also have these boulder fields or granted it starts

499
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: to look at Now, if we go back to the

500
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,959
Speaker 1: coon's case, two feet from where Door disappeared is a

501
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: giant boulder field, and we show it in the film,

502
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: and it's one of those subtle notes that if you

503
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: follow the books, you're going to say, oh, yeah, that's right.

504
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: There is that giant boulderfield that no one wants to discuss,

505
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: right above where he disappeared. Now he hasn't been found,

506
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: and I don't know the relationship that could be could

507
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: exist there, but it's there. You mentioned in the film

508
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: another commonality that we haven't discussed yet that many of

509
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: these um folks who disappeared had some sort of physical disability. Um,

510
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: can you go into that a little bit. A lot

511
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: of times it's not something that's evident, you know, the

512
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: person isn't limping down the trail. But a lot of

513
00:30:55,240 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: times the victim may have autism or dementia. And and

514
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: again it's not something obvious and you would say, well, yeah,

515
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: you know, maybe somebody with autoism or dementia that that

516
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: seems a reasonable way to disappear. They didn't have all

517
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: their mental capabilities and they vanished. Again, sticking with those

518
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: profile points, Why can't we track those people down to

519
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: where they are located? Where did they go? How come

520
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: they're not found? It doesn't make sense. Now. On the

521
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: opposite side of that intellectual spectrum, I've also written about

522
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: people with phenomenal intellectual capabilities that have vanished. One of

523
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: those sub types is physicists. There's a series of physicists

524
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: that have disappeared under strange, strange circumstances and never been found.

525
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: One of them disappeared in the mountains above Los Angeles.

526
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: Was taking a hike with some people on the trail.

527
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: He didn't feel too well. He stopped and the person

528
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: at the back of the line opt as well with him,

529
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: and he didn't feel good. So these two guys sat

530
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: there and the guide at the back of the line said, well,

531
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna wait a couple of seconds, you can go ahead.

532
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: And this physicist was visiting from Germany, and he took

533
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: off down the trail and eventually the guy got back

534
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: to the lodge and the physicist wasn't at the watch

535
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,479
Speaker 1: huge search of the entire area for weeks. The German

536
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: physicist was never found. And this is another of the

537
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: subgroups is Germans, or people with German heritage seemed to

538
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: disappear at a higher percentage than the norm, But German

539
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: physicists disappeared in a much higher percentage than anyone else

540
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: in the US. It's a very very unusual subgroup. I

541
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: would say unusual for sure. Um oh gosh, I see

542
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: my mind just reels and I want to start asking

543
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: you about reasons like why why would a bunch of

544
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: physicists go missing? I so badly want to get into

545
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: some of the allegations and can incepts have been floated

546
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: to us over the years about these kind of things. Well,

547
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that. So there's been six missing four

548
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: one one books aboutes written. And I probably have said

549
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: this many times in interviews, but if you listen to

550
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: every interview I've ever done, you're probably gonna glean maybe

551
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: three to five of what's in the books. And we

552
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: have a lot of tables, a lot of graphs, a

553
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: lot of data. We have lists that I encourage people

554
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: to look at in the back of the books and

555
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: try to make some sense out of it. And the

556
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: truth is is that of the people who have read

557
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: the six books, and there's been hundreds, if not thousands,

558
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: tens of thousands. Nobody has ever read the six Books

559
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: and come back to me and said, I have the formula,

560
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: I understand what happened. Here's what it is. Everyone. I

561
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: could say, probably I've had five hundred people or a

562
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: thousand people right to me in the last three years

563
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: and say, I've watched all your videos. I know exactly

564
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: what it is. Then you know, off the top of

565
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: my head, I can answer them quickly and said, yeah,

566
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: but what about this, this, this, and this, Oh, I

567
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: didn't know about that, or what about this, this, this,

568
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: and this, Oh, I didn't even know about that. And

569
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: the truth is that the people that have read the

570
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: six books will come back and say, you know, I

571
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: initially thought that it might have been A but then this, this,

572
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: and this happened, and so it can't be A. And

573
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: yet all the profile points are consistent, so we know

574
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: that they have to be interrelated. The only thing I

575
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: will say is that I'm sitting in my room right

576
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: now looking at the cluster map, is that approximately of

577
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: all of the clusters are within a hundred and fifty

578
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: miles of a huge body of water. Namely, the clusters

579
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: run from north to south through the Cascades and down

580
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: through the Sierras on the west coast, and then from

581
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: north to south along the east coast through the Appalachian

582
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: Appalachian Trail, and then there's clusters all the way around

583
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: the Great Lakes. Now there's one strand of clusters that

584
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: kind of goes around the top of Idaho, Montana and

585
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: then down through the Rockies, but it's pretty scattered, and

586
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: they don't have the bulk of the numbers that's east

587
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: and the West Coast and the Great Lakes have. The

588
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: water is an important feature, and I don't minimize that

589
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 1: at all, and I think about that all the time.

590
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: Why are the clusters in close proximity to water, and

591
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: what's the relationship to that and why is that so?

592
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: And then once you look at the cluster map, you'll

593
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 1: notice that right in the middle of the US North Dakota,

594
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: South Dakota, Kansas, that swath north to south through the

595
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 1: middle or the furthest points from the ocean have almost

596
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: no missing people that fit our criteria. It's a very

597
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: strange sight. So when you start to think about all this, uh,

598
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: you know, I've had twenty people that have sent me

599
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: thesis linked documents saying this is what I think it is,

600
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: but again it's somebody who's ever read the books, and

601
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: easily after the first couple of pages, I can say, well, yeah,

602
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: but it's not this because of this, this, this and this,

603
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: And I don't minimize the people writing in but you

604
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: have to understand that unless you read the six books,

605
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: you're never going to glean all of the options and

606
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: all of the elements that come into play that do

607
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: match the criteria. So I mean, you you say that

608
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: it's not your purpose to kind of conjecture of what

609
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: the what actually is happening here. You're just kind of

610
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: like laying out some facts and letting the reader make

611
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: their own assumptions or make their own connections. And in

612
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: order to do that, you know, you you kind of

613
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: need to really dig into the totality of these cases.

614
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: But I mean you must have some ideas. I mean,

615
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: I think you know, our listeners would be very interested

616
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: to talk about that and to kind of get a

617
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: sense of what are some of the options here? What

618
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: in what realm are we talking about? So if I

619
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: had a good option, I tell you, And if I

620
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: heard one out there, I tell you. And every time

621
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: I hear somebody say, well, tell me what you think. Well,

622
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: I'm interested you tell me what you think, because just

623
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: because I'm a good accumulator of data doesn't mean that

624
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: I know what all those options are and what what

625
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: all those options mean. And what I mean by that

626
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 1: is that I may be really good at collecting data

627
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: on missing people, siphoning the data, getting it down to

628
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: a subgroup that all has commonalities. But you guys know

629
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: that there's probably fifty things in the world that are strange,

630
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: unusual and are looked at as predatorial. But each one

631
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: of those groups has an expert. I'm not the expert

632
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 1: on all those fifty areas. I'm focusing in on one thing.

633
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: If people say the information in and all of a sudden,

634
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: a lightbulb goes off to me and says, this is it, Well,

635
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: I'm for sure I'm going to say something, but I'm

636
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: not going to say something stupid and make myself and

637
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: my team look like a bung of idiots just to

638
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: appease somebody who wants to know my opinion or unsupported

639
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: look at something just the way that's going to happen.

640
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: That's how people in research lose their credibility. And when

641
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: I'm dealing with families of missing people. I'm not going

642
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: to let them go online and look at me saying

643
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 1: something stupid and unsupported and then lose my credibility in

644
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: that world that's going to happen. I'm gonna lay I'm

645
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: going to continue to lay up the facts. If I

646
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: find a fact that matches what I'm doing, I'm gonna

647
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: be the first one that's going to step up and

648
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: scream to the world what's happening. But until that point happens,

649
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: I'm still doing research, especially considering the way that the

650
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: National Parks, you know, we're so hesitant to give out

651
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: this kind of information and almost seems like it unsettles

652
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: people in law enforcement capacity or in you know, government capacity,

653
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: like to even consider that there might be some kind

654
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: of connection in these cases. I just wonder why, you know,

655
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: if you've got such little help from the National Parks folks,

656
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 1: do you get a sense that law enforcement are also

657
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: holding something back or not giving you all of the

658
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 1: information that they have access to. That's a good question. Um.

659
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: I think if you watch the movie, you're going to

660
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,959
Speaker 1: see that there's several different law and for some people

661
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: in it. And part of my job is to keep

662
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: credibility in that world, because once I lose my credibility,

663
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 1: they won't cooperate anymore. Now, just because the National Park

664
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: Services and cooperating doesn't mean general law enforcement won't. And

665
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: there is a group of people out there that are

666
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: willing to look at the dat go and essentially look

667
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: at facts. And once you delve into it and you

668
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: realize that Dave politis never said of what is alleged

669
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: on YouTube and other various sites. He sticks just to

670
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: the facts and all these other allegations that he said

671
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: this or he thinks that, but he's never said it.

672
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: So law enforcement watches these things, and if some of

673
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: them believe I said some of these wild things that

674
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: people allege, they won't want to talk to me and

675
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: they won't give me credibility, and it hurts with the

676
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: victims families that need help. Now, there is a group

677
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: out there that knows exactly what I'm about, and they've

678
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 1: read the books, and I've given a talk in front

679
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 1: of the largest search and rescue organization in the world

680
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: about this, and at the end of my talk there

681
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: were there two Alaska State true for sitting at the

682
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: back of the audience, and what I'm stood up and said,

683
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: you know, Dave, you're saying exactly what we already know,

684
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 1: and we've worked so many of these type of cases

685
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 1: and we have no idea what's going on, but you're

686
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: saying what everyone doesn't want to talk about. And the

687
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: guy said, thanks, thanks for talking about and he sits down.

688
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 1: Now since that, I've had many search and rescue people

689
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 1: contact me and said, you know, that's exactly the truth. This,

690
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: this is what happened to us on this search. And

691
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: in fact, in the movie we interview some search and

692
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: rescue people that talked about a super strange case. And

693
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: it's just an example that once you understand what we're

694
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: all about, and you understand that, hey, we're about the facts,

695
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: that there's a lot more of this going on than

696
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: we all want to talk about, and the local news

697
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: probably isn't going to talk about it because it's uncomfortable,

698
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: but it happens. So it sounds as if one thing

699
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: that maybe occurring is that individual government employees, like individual

700
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: rangers or state troopers are and are approaching you and

701
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: your team with their own experiences, but there's a larger

702
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: system at play which is much less cooperative. Would you

703
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: would you say that's that's a fair assessment. I think

704
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,919
Speaker 1: you hit the nail on the head um A few times.

705
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: I've talked about this, but a friend of mine and

706
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: I were in a national park and we're at a

707
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: substation and there's a group of older men sitting around

708
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: this table talking and you can tell that there are

709
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: a couple of current park rangers and a couple of

710
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 1: apparently retired ones, and this one guy was talking at length,

711
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: and I told my friends that we're going to wait

712
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: until this guy leaves the room. I want to talk

713
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,399
Speaker 1: to him. And after about forty five minutes, he gets

714
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 1: up and in the parking lot, I approached him and

715
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: I said, I'm retired law enforcement and I heard you

716
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: in there, and I wanted to talk. He goes, yeah, sure.

717
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: He explained to me that in the Park Service, the

718
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: detectives for the National Park Police are called special agents,

719
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: and there's usually about one special agent for every two

720
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 1: or three national parks. Yosemite has a couple of special

721
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: agents assigned just to Yosemite, but normally it's one or

722
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 1: two per every national park, and they're like the detectives,

723
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: and they follow up on cases. And I explained with

724
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: the National Park System had done to me in abstracting

725
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: us getting data and information, and and I asked him,

726
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: I said, can you give me any insight as to

727
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: why this is going on? And the guy looked at

728
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: me dead in the eye and he goes, well, Dave,

729
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: I'm a retired special agent, spent thirty years with the

730
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: Park Service, and I know exactly what's going on. It's

731
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: called the lack of integrity, and certain people in the

732
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: National Park Service, police and in their administration have a

733
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 1: complete lack of integrity and they won't do the right thing.

734
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: And he says, it's been that way for many years,

735
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: and I'll probably be that way from anymore. And this

736
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: is not an indictment the National Park rangers that the

737
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: public sees every day. You know, they're they're great people.

738
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: They're doing God's work out there. This is a selected

739
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: group at the higher echelon. They're making these decisions and

740
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 1: making these policies. And when I talked to this retired

741
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 1: special agent, we've talked for a long time, and it

742
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: was enlightening because it was his perspective, being that insider,

743
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: that this is really what's going on. And then he

744
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: pointed us to a web a couple of websites that

745
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 1: were maintained by other park rangers that talked about the

746
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: discrimination that was going on to them, their inability to

747
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,240
Speaker 1: get reports when they filed Freedom of Information Act reports,

748
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: and it was it was sort of a relief, knowing, Wow,

749
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 1: this isn't just happening to me. This is how two

750
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: people inside their organization. And if you go to our website,

751
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: can am like Canadian American, can i am missing dot com,

752
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: there's links to all these things and you can see

753
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: for yourself that this really is happening. And the Park

754
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: Service has done a phenomenal job kind of portraying themselves

755
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: as a holier than that organization that Yogi the Bear

756
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: is the best friend. But when you look at the

757
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: underlining of it, it's not anything like the publicity says

758
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: it is. It's totally different. And with this in mind,

759
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: we're going to going to explore a little bit about

760
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: various allegations, and we're going to explore the future of

761
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: missing for one one after a word from our sponsors,

762
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: and we have returned. So, David, one thing that you

763
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: said that I think really made our ears perk up

764
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: collectively is you mentioned that in the online sphere. I

765
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: guess that there have been people who are spreading what

766
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: we would call it, uh, misinformation or perhaps misrepresenting what

767
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: this endeavor is actually about. Um, could you could you

768
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about that misinformation because we

769
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 1: want to make sure our audience has has it clear.

770
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: I think we've I think we've outlined pretty well, UM,

771
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 1: some of the process for which cases to explore the commonalities, right,

772
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: discovered the fact that this is aggregation of facts. Right,

773
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: So what what are these what are these people saying

774
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: that is misinformation? Remember, one thing is that I have

775
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: never and I would never name anything as a suspect

776
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: or come up with any theory about what's happening unless

777
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: I could support it, and I never have. And there's

778
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people that say, oh, he he said

779
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: this or he meant that. If I say something or

780
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: I meant something, I'd just come out and say it.

781
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people and a lot

782
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: of organizations out there that represent the the fringe gentleman

783
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: of cryptozoology or whatever want to align themselves with credible research,

784
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,919
Speaker 1: and so they want to align themselves with what we're

785
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 1: doing in the hopes that it will give them additional credibility.

786
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: And the truth of the matter is if you read

787
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: the books, you'll know I've never done any of that.

788
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 1: And whether it's a lot of people say well must

789
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: maybe it's a group of National Parks employees or US

790
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: for Service employees that want to discredit me so that

791
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 1: the mainstream of society won't read what we've put together.

792
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 1: You know, Oh, it's just some cook he's saying some

793
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: things that can't be supported. I've yet to find anybody

794
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: that has ever read the data in that those books

795
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 1: that has attacked us, because they read for themselves and

796
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: they're all listed where we got the sources, where the

797
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: information came from, and you can go there and read

798
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: it for yourself. So I mean, it's thousands and thousands

799
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: of hours of research and the gleaning of data that

800
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: has and that has taken us to where we are today.

801
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 1: Now why the attacks occur, Well, I mean I've had

802
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: other investigative journalists tell me, Dave, it just comes with

803
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: the territory. When you come out with information that makes

804
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: the Department of the Interior look like fools or makes

805
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: a Park service look in apt, you're going to get attacks.

806
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,800
Speaker 1: And it just comes. It comes with the territory. I

807
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,479
Speaker 1: understand that now at the beginning, but I get it now.

808
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: One thing that we always like to investigator, that we

809
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: feel as part of our due diligence on the show

810
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: is to look at the allegations, like, as you said,

811
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: the misinformation, because it's something it's stuck out to me.

812
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: You know, I would see criticism of something on online

813
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: regarding missing for one one, and then I would go

814
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 1: back and check out the books I had read. And

815
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: you know, honestly, I had looked through the books trying

816
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: to see if there were conclusions, and I can I

817
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: can assure you, ladies and gentlemen, that there there aren't.

818
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: This is a this compilations of you know, case research

819
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: on the skeptical side for the more skeptical in our audience.

820
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: One thing that interested me immensely was that I would

821
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 1: read these investigations or presentations by you know, people who

822
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: would consider themselves the word we keep using a skeptical

823
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: more on the skeptic side. And one thing that I

824
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 1: thought was pretty fascinating was that most of these people

825
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: said in in their presentations, you know, they said, uh,

826
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: we looked at this and these are all genuine disappearances

827
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: and the facts are all correct, and sometimes quote unquote

828
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: Internet skeptics do a very poor job of applying critical thinking.

829
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: So I was I was impressed with that, And it

830
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: seems like the only real the only real bone of

831
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: contention I found from their side was that they were

832
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:41,760
Speaker 1: saying they thought there were mundane explanations for these disappearances,

833
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: but they didn't say what those explanations might be. And

834
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: so then I started looking at, according to the data

835
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: we have, what are the most some of the most

836
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 1: common disappearance causes for people who are camping and stuff

837
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: like that. As you said, a lot of these things

838
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:03,240
Speaker 1: don't seem to don't seem to fit into those easy explanations.

839
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: Are are you aware of this stuff? And how would

840
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,760
Speaker 1: you respond to, uh, the to those folks who maybe

841
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 1: in our audience or maybe just somewhere out there in

842
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: the ether, who would say that there are explicable causes

843
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: for this, Well, it's hard to respond to something like

844
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 1: that on such a general format. If you want to

845
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: talk about specifics, I'll go toe to toe with anybody

846
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: on any case in any book. But that's a that's

847
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,760
Speaker 1: a common trait when someone tries to discredit anything, Well,

848
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 1: I think this, okay, how do you respond to that? Well,

849
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: if we've gone through the vetting process of those points,

850
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: and Search and Rescue believes that none of those issues

851
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: are there, then why do you think something different? And

852
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 1: I would probably guess that the people saying these things,

853
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: I've never read one book they've you know, there's there's

854
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: something called plausible the liability, and a lot of these

855
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 1: people are uncomfortable with where the books may take them

856
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 1: because it takes you out of that comfort zone and

857
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: puts an aura on the wild environment that you know,

858
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,439
Speaker 1: maybe this isn't Disneyland when you walk into a national park,

859
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: and maybe you're not as safe as you tend to

860
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: think you want to be. And if it's not a

861
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 1: mountain lion and it's not a bear attack, and it's

862
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: not a human attack, and it's not a voluntary disappearance,

863
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:42,919
Speaker 1: what does that leave What what took the person? And

864
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: how did the person get from this point to this point?

865
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 1: And there was an animal predation and there's no injuries

866
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,439
Speaker 1: to the body, and blah blah blah blah blah, why

867
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 1: can't they figure out the cause of death in this case?

868
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,720
Speaker 1: And you start to think these things, and it starts

869
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: to become uncomfortable. And I think a lot of people's

870
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 1: mentality is is they need to go to the wilderness

871
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 1: to clean their mind. And if I take that away

872
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 1: from them, that cleansing and that freedom, and that that

873
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,240
Speaker 1: great feeling they have when they go there, I've taken

874
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: something valuable from people. And I've heard this before. Now

875
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: one of the things I tell everybody is that even

876
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 1: though I know what I've written, I still go to

877
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: the wilderness all the time. And I go, but I

878
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: go cautiously. I never go anywhere alone most of the time.

879
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 1: The vast, vast vast majority of time. If I do

880
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 1: go somewhere someplace alone, I always carry a personal locator beacon.

881
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 1: And the people in my books that I write about

882
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 1: would probably still be alive today if they had one. Namely,

883
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 1: it costs between a hundred and three hundred dollars. You

884
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: get lost, you pull the button. It sends a transmission

885
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: up to a satellite satellite sands as transmission to the

886
00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:01,240
Speaker 1: National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration, and they call the local

887
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 1: search and rescue where you're at because they have your

888
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 1: GPS corgans now and they send a search party out

889
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 1: to find you. In the cases I've written about, I

890
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 1: only have one case where somebody activated to transponder and

891
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: wasn't found alive. Only one that was just outside of Yosemite,

892
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 1: and he was found into really weird circumstances. I have

893
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: never had a case where somebody was carrying a firearm

894
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 1: and activated a transponder and was found de ceased. I've

895
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: never had one of those ever. So I mean, I

896
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: have a law enforcement background, so I carry a gun

897
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 1: all the time anyhow, But I carry a gun, a transponder,

898
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: a compass, a map. I always tell somebody where I'm going,

899
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: and I always checked the weather before I leave. I

900
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 1: think if people followed those easy to follow instructions, we

901
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:56,280
Speaker 1: could eliminate disappearances by probably. I think that's really, really,

902
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: really smart. Just just learn what you need to do

903
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: when are going to go into the wilderness, even if

904
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:05,240
Speaker 1: you're with another person, just make sure if you get separated,

905
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: you're gonna be okay. It gets a little dicey, though,

906
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: when you're dealing with like a two year old, you know,

907
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: or a five year old. How do you teach your

908
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 1: two year old how to use a transponder? You know,

909
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: keep the kid with you. Oh yeah, I will obviously,

910
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: but it doesn't always happen. That's that's true. And this

911
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,719
Speaker 1: this is a really important point. Whether you consider yourself

912
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 1: that an OUTDOORI has been a survivalist, you know, or

913
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 1: whether you think occasionally, one day in the future you

914
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:38,760
Speaker 1: might go camping. Um, these points are are crucial because

915
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 1: I think people forget easily. Um how that it's called

916
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 1: wilderness for a reason. Wild things can occur. And you

917
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 1: always practice the buddy system, always have and as as

918
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 1: David said, like always have somebody who is not out

919
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: in the woods with you, who knows where you're going

920
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 1: roughly and what time you're expected to be back. So,

921
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 1: speaking of survivalism, survivor man makes an appearance in this movie.

922
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:11,359
Speaker 1: So is less Stroud somebody you have worked with before

923
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 1: in the past. How did that come about? Less read

924
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 1: the books and he got ahold of me, and he said, Dave,

925
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 1: those books were phenomenal, and he goes, you're really onto something.

926
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: He goes, It's something I've thought about for a long time.

927
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 1: And he goes, if I can help you with anything

928
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 1: to promote this safety strategy and the reality of what

929
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 1: you've written about let me know, I'll help you. Well,

930
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 1: we got to time to film and we sat around

931
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 1: and had a discussion about how we could utilize his services,

932
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 1: and we said, well, how about if we utilize you

933
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: to try to replicate uh a path that a two

934
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: year old took through the night to get a certain

935
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 1: to get to a certain location. He goes, I'm on,

936
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 1: I'll do it. So we met him and crew went

937
00:56:56,560 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 1: out with him overnight, and that he proved to me

938
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:03,319
Speaker 1: that there's no way this two year old could have

939
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: done this. And I don't think that there's anyone in

940
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,240
Speaker 1: the world more credible or more attuned to the environment

941
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 1: and less stroud. So I have never heard anybody who's

942
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: seen the film and watched that segment that said, oh

943
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 1: you know that was saked, or you know, everyone says, wow,

944
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 1: if less couldn't do it, this two year old, sure

945
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 1: as that couldn't have done it. Oh man, that is

946
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: a great point. So that particular case that he helped

947
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 1: out with occurred in the nineteen fifties. One of the

948
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:34,160
Speaker 1: other clusterings that we saw are clusterings in time like

949
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: specific years where there were a lot of missing persons.

950
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 1: Can you go over some of some of those clusters

951
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 1: and when they occurred. So all the geographical clusters are

952
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 1: there now. Inside some of those clusters are are time clusters,

953
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 1: and there's certain periods of time in certain areas where

954
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: a clustering happened, where there were multiple people over a

955
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:02,439
Speaker 1: short period of time advantage. There's some in Michigan, there's

956
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: some on the West coast, and unless we laid it

957
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: out in a list format, it probably wouldn't be evident.

958
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: And there's also certain disappearance And somebody found this out

959
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 1: and sent it to us, and I can't take credit

960
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: for it. I think it was a guy in Finland

961
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 1: sent it to me and he said, Dave, do you

962
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:29,919
Speaker 1: realize that three of the disappearances you've documented occurred when

963
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: ships and planes disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle, They disappeared

964
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 1: on the same day. I said, Oh, that's weird. And

965
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 1: I looked and they verified what the guy said, and

966
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: I said, it's sure, it's true. So you know, again,

967
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 1: there could be a lot more to these disappearances than coincidence.

968
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: And when you look at the numbers and you understand

969
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 1: that it's just not the U. S And Canada, but

970
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: there's nine other countries where this exact same thing is happening,

971
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 1: and the top countries besides you US in Canada are

972
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 1: Australia and the United Kingdom are the next two. So

973
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: it's very strange. Definitely strange. Yeah, So, David, I think

974
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 1: we're nearing the end here. But is there anything that

975
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: we haven't talked about that kind of strikes you as

976
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 1: something important for listeners to understand about. What what what

977
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 1: drove you to do this project and to continue kind

978
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: of pursuing these cases and what's the future? Yeah, and

979
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: what's next? Well, I think that once you meet these

980
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 1: families and you interact with them, and you realize that

981
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 1: they've been robust by almost every government agency in existence,

982
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 1: and that after that seven to ten days cycle, everyone

983
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 1: wants to forget about the disappearance. These people feel abandoned.

984
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 1: And I'm not just talking about the National Parks Service.

985
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the Department of the Interior of the

986
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 1: US for service. It's just not one agency. Seems as

987
00:59:55,800 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 1: though nobody wants to even address the topic. And if

988
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:05,479
Speaker 1: someone is a victim of a homicide or somebody dies

989
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 1: from an auto accident, there's finality to it. These people

990
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: have nothing, they don't know where their loved one died,

991
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 1: they don't have the remains they can go and visit.

992
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 1: They They're left with this open ended wound that nobody

993
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 1: wants to help them close. And you give them a

994
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:28,479
Speaker 1: little attention, if you kind of give them a path

995
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 1: to get more details, if you let them know that

996
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: they're not alone. But there's hundreds and hundreds of other

997
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 1: families just like there's that also are being victimized the

998
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 1: same way. It helps them. And I've seen this happen

999
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: many times, and being friends with these families is super

1000
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: important to me. And they're all great, great people who

1001
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: are living a life of almost torture. And once you

1002
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 1: understand that, it hurts, it hurts that our government doesn't

1003
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 1: do more than help them. Now, what's next is our

1004
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 1: research is continuing and we're learning more things from victims, victims, families,

1005
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: people who have read the books. I always at the

1006
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 1: back of each book is my email. I tell people

1007
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 1: to write. I read every email everything I get, and

1008
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 1: I encourage people to give me their thoughts after they

1009
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 1: read the books. One of the things that we're doing

1010
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: is in October of this year in Denver, We're having

1011
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: what's called the Mile High Mystery Conference, and there's gonna

1012
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 1: be a lot of people. They're speaking, and one of

1013
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: the people that is speaking at the conference is Alan Attadero,

1014
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 1: who lost his son, and Alan someone who has tremendous insight.

1015
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 1: He's a high school teacher, He's very, very smart, and

1016
01:01:56,640 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: he speaks from the victim's perspective, and I think that individuals,

1017
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: once they hear him present, we'll say, wow, there is

1018
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 1: really really something here. If you don't want to believe

1019
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 1: it from me, here it from Allen. I'll be presenting

1020
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 1: there as well some other researchers. But I think it's

1021
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: going to be one of the first times that the

1022
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 1: public is going to hear directly from a family member

1023
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 1: the truth and how they've been misdirected, misguided, and essentially

1024
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 1: lived years without any assistance. David, thank you so much

1025
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:35,919
Speaker 1: for coming on the show today and giving us a

1026
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 1: in depth look at a phenomenon that many people, well

1027
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 1: more and more people are aware of, but many people

1028
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 1: may not have been aware of until they heard this interview.

1029
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 1: In the book series is missing for one one and

1030
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: the documentary is out as we record this episode today.

1031
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 1: You can get it right now on Amazon Video to stream,

1032
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 1: or you can buy the thing and have it forever.

1033
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 1: So David, thank you one more time for coming on

1034
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:06,240
Speaker 1: the show and sharing your research with us. UM, we

1035
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 1: really appreciate it, guys. I appreciate the opportunity to speak

1036
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 1: for the families and from our research, and glad to

1037
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: come back anytime. Awesome, Thank you so much, Thank you

1038
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 1: so much. And here we are broadcasting from the future

1039
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 1: to reflect on this interview that you have just heard,

1040
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 1: and you know we've actually all just heard as well

1041
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 1: listening back to it. UM, I don't know what did

1042
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: you guys think. I thought the Mr Pliz that's some

1043
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 1: really interesting points about maybe not necessarily answers, but at

1044
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:42,920
Speaker 1: least these patterns that he sees and organizes, which is

1045
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 1: no small task. You know. He mentioned that he was

1046
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 1: sitting in a room while he's talking to us, and

1047
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 1: it has in that room there's a map that has

1048
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 1: all the clusters of disappearances throughout North America. And I

1049
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 1: just imagine David existing in that world for so long. UM,

1050
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 1: he sees a whole different picture than I can see

1051
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 1: as an outsider just reading a bit and watching a documentary. Yeah,

1052
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting that his response, um, when

1053
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 1: when I had asked him, you know, what would you

1054
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: say to people who believe that these are not you know,

1055
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 1: that these are not related, right, And he did say, um,

1056
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: exactly what you're reiterating that he felt those were on

1057
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:29,840
Speaker 1: Those were remarks on a general level, And so it

1058
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 1: was interesting that he welcomed anybody listening, including you out

1059
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 1: there folks, to write to him or contact him about

1060
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 1: a specific case. But it's something that we see happen

1061
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 1: often in multiple investigations. It kind of reminded me of

1062
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:49,959
Speaker 1: you guys, remember the smiley face killer theory, and so

1063
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 1: one of this is, um, there there's some retired law

1064
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: enforcement professionals who are convinced that there is a serial killer,

1065
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: group of killers drowning young college age men across the

1066
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 1: United States, and the big debate that they keep having

1067
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:13,440
Speaker 1: is whether there really is a discernible pattern with commonalities,

1068
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 1: or whether these things are just being grouped together. You know,

1069
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:20,919
Speaker 1: it just feels to me like the commonality in these

1070
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 1: cases largely were the fact that these things happened on

1071
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 1: national park grounds. And as we've discussed in our previous

1072
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 1: episode about you know, national parks and disappearances. They're massive

1073
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of nefarious reasons. People can target

1074
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 1: these areas for their own own purposes, whether it's you know,

1075
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 1: organized crime trying to uh kind of mask something they've done,

1076
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 1: hide to body or what have you, or whether their

1077
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 1: predators may be seeking out people in remote areas to

1078
01:05:56,320 --> 01:06:01,040
Speaker 1: target for you know, their own And yeah, I think

1079
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 1: that's one of the issues here. We're grouping together so

1080
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:06,919
Speaker 1: many different instances that you're right, could have so many

1081
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 1: different causes. But when you look at them together like that,

1082
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:13,720
Speaker 1: it's that idea of maybe maybe I can see something

1083
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 1: different by looking at them together rather than on a

1084
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 1: case to case basis. That's what it feels like to me.

1085
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 1: David has been doing over all these years of research,

1086
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 1: and there's a there are those specific um commonalities as

1087
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 1: he sees them that they listed right, children, um berries

1088
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 1: was one right, extraordinary travel you know of the of

1089
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 1: the like the point of disappearance to the point of

1090
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 1: discovery of remains, so um. You know, it's a it's

1091
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:50,840
Speaker 1: a debate that continues on in multiple multiple venues, you know,

1092
01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:56,520
Speaker 1: multiple avenues of expression. And I don't I don't know

1093
01:06:56,600 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 1: because he you know, he doesn't talk about what might

1094
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 1: be causes. He he mentioned a little bit what other

1095
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:07,320
Speaker 1: people had written to him and said, but you know,

1096
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 1: he is just aggregating the data. I respect that desire

1097
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 1: to maintain that kind of credibility that clearly is at

1098
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 1: the core of what he's doing and all this work

1099
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:19,480
Speaker 1: that he's put in. But it it there is a

1100
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 1: part of that attitude that leaves you a little cold,

1101
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:23,960
Speaker 1: where it's like, you're putting this much work into what

1102
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 1: you know, you might call an investigation, but there's no result.

1103
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 1: There's no even speculation, there's no even hint of like

1104
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 1: what this might be. And I don't know that That

1105
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 1: left me wanting, well, I'm gonna go out and say it.

1106
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 1: There's no one, there's no five, there's no ten causes

1107
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 1: for all of these disappearances. Because you're talking about so many,

1108
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:47,400
Speaker 1: each of them is going to have a slightly in

1109
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 1: my opinion, each one is going to have a slightly

1110
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 1: different explanation for why it happened and how it happens.

1111
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:55,280
Speaker 1: So that's your take. It just got an idea. It

1112
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 1: struck me bolt of lightning out of the blue. Right. Uh,

1113
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 1: we want to know what you think listeners. So what

1114
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 1: do you think would be a probable cause, What do

1115
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 1: you think would be a plausible cause. What do you

1116
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:09,920
Speaker 1: think would be an improbable cause or a or a

1117
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 1: um not impossible thing? Because you know, I know, I

1118
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:17,639
Speaker 1: think you brought up a great point when you talk

1119
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 1: about organized crime. We do know, for instance, um an

1120
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:25,719
Speaker 1: alternative lifestyles to subcultures. So we know, for instance, UM

1121
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:29,200
Speaker 1: there are various people living off the grid under the

1122
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:32,759
Speaker 1: surface of American culture. We know that numerous communities team

1123
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 1: and thrive, and numerous unseen events occur. Yeah, there's something

1124
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 1: for everybody. You know, We've been living in this uh,

1125
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:42,360
Speaker 1: this crazy culture that we have where there are so

1126
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 1: many different types of personalities and dare I say, perversions,

1127
01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:51,200
Speaker 1: and you know, reasons to lots of reasons to go

1128
01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:53,680
Speaker 1: disappear into the woods. I guess that's what I'm getting at,

1129
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:57,080
Speaker 1: whether it's for some kind of ritual or some kind

1130
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 1: of you know, like I said, targeted attack, I just

1131
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:02,880
Speaker 1: I just kind of felt like, by the very nature

1132
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:07,000
Speaker 1: of combining all of these cases, Mr Polites was implying

1133
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 1: without saying so, that there was something unusual or or related,

1134
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:17,880
Speaker 1: something some connection that he keeps hinting at by the

1135
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:20,479
Speaker 1: very nature of the fact that these are all, you know,

1136
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:23,880
Speaker 1: grouped together to see like, look, he's he's presenting them

1137
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 1: in that way. How can you not? You know? I

1138
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 1: feel like there is an implied something's going on here,

1139
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 1: and that's in the film. There's an air of like mystery.

1140
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 1: It's like we we found a single tooth or like,

1141
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 1: you know, like all of this stuff, it's presented in

1142
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 1: a way that to me comes off as like, what

1143
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:43,720
Speaker 1: the hell is going on here? You know, I don't know,

1144
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 1: that's just me. I see what you're saying, and that's

1145
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:49,719
Speaker 1: I think that's why. Um, we're also interested in hearing.

1146
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for everybody. I'm personally very

1147
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 1: interested in hearing what the listeners have to say about.

1148
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,599
Speaker 1: And uh, I just have to men, because we're talking

1149
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 1: about national parks. I know this doesn't have anything to

1150
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:05,640
Speaker 1: do with anything, but I've been reading more about it

1151
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:07,960
Speaker 1: and I'm excited. You know, you guys know how I

1152
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 1: go through the obsessive phases. So Rainbow gatherings, Yeah, man, yeah,

1153
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 1: that okay? Are we going? I do you want to? Okay, well,

1154
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 1: we'll put a go pro on you and Nolan I

1155
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 1: will be like the We'll be like the guys at

1156
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 1: the desk, like the hacking will hack for you. I

1157
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 1: think what we do is we put together some type

1158
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,200
Speaker 1: of artisanal foods and then we just go and we

1159
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 1: started catching. We'll give you an earpiece and we'll feed

1160
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:43,520
Speaker 1: you hippie lingo. All right, Yeah, you know Ramsey coworker

1161
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 1: here is really good at pickling things. I think that's

1162
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:48,519
Speaker 1: our taken in. Okay, we'll need to build a different

1163
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 1: identity for you because Matt Frederick is too well known.

1164
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 1: From the moment we drop you off, like a few

1165
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:57,519
Speaker 1: miles outside of the gathering. What do you think about

1166
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:01,320
Speaker 1: being the pickle man? Yeah, that's pretty good, or the

1167
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 1: man with pickles. I don't know. Either way, I'll go

1168
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 1: with it. Or we could just give you a new

1169
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 1: identity where your last name is Pickleman. Oh, yes, Stephen Pickleman,

1170
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 1: Peter Pickleman's a little too out of those. Yes, I

1171
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 1: don't know. Not in a rainbow gathering. That's true. That's

1172
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 1: true if you if you are wondering what this bizarre

1173
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:24,040
Speaker 1: they were talking about is and you're thinking, um, guys,

1174
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 1: you keep talking about this thing, but you're not telling

1175
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:29,920
Speaker 1: us what is actually happening. Yeah, we understand a rainbow

1176
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: gathering is a it's about what it sounds like. Yeah,

1177
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:36,640
Speaker 1: it's an alternative. Uh, it's an annual I think it's

1178
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:40,719
Speaker 1: annual alternative gathering in national parks in the United States

1179
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:44,760
Speaker 1: where a bunch of people live in a intentional community

1180
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:50,920
Speaker 1: temporarily where they don't have money and they have As

1181
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,160
Speaker 1: you said, I think it is the age word. There's

1182
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:55,599
Speaker 1: like a hippie vibe, and it seems like what I've

1183
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 1: been reading about has more to do with sort of

1184
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 1: the dark side of this, because if you want to

1185
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 1: if the FBI is looking for you or something, you

1186
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:06,840
Speaker 1: want to disappear in a place and you don't have money,

1187
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:09,880
Speaker 1: something like this could work as long as you're not,

1188
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:13,800
Speaker 1: you know, a violent monster. And then I also started

1189
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 1: wondering about cults and uh, other you know, intersections with

1190
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 1: other other cultures off the grid in the US UM

1191
01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 1: and what kind of background checks are involved when you

1192
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:28,519
Speaker 1: join up. I don't think I don't think there's many.

1193
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:30,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, dude. I just found this article in

1194
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 1: The Mirror, The UK Mirror, Mirror dot co dot UK

1195
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:36,640
Speaker 1: photographer documents life at Rainbow Gatherings festival where people get

1196
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:40,040
Speaker 1: naked to be one with nature. And not only are

1197
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:44,200
Speaker 1: these gorgeous photographs like these are wonderfully composed photographs. There's

1198
01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:46,799
Speaker 1: one in particular where it's like this lagoon and everyone's

1199
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 1: naked and it looks like the Garden of Eden or

1200
01:12:49,240 --> 01:12:51,840
Speaker 1: something like. It's wild. Uh, So check it out if

1201
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 1: you get a chance. But it's it's n SFW for sure,

1202
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 1: it'll get It'll give you a sense of what that

1203
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:02,600
Speaker 1: Rainbow life is like. Yeah. Uh and the okay, so

1204
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:05,320
Speaker 1: I've seen like two documentaries about it. Um, just in

1205
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:09,240
Speaker 1: the course of this new obsession, this new phase and

1206
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 1: uh And honestly, I don't think there are requirements to join.

1207
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:18,200
Speaker 1: Apparently the way a lot of people are greeted, if

1208
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:20,599
Speaker 1: we just showed up, they would say welcome home. That's

1209
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:23,439
Speaker 1: what they say it silo. Yeah, but I got walls, man,

1210
01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 1: I got pace. I'm not. I don't know if I'm

1211
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:29,000
Speaker 1: if I'm about that life. Just to jump back into

1212
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 1: four one one really fast before side the point of

1213
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:35,599
Speaker 1: the show. Yeah, One thing I do want to mention

1214
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:38,360
Speaker 1: here is that in the course of our research over

1215
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:42,040
Speaker 1: the years on David Politis and Missing four one one

1216
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:44,960
Speaker 1: and Canadam Missing and all of the various projects that

1217
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:49,680
Speaker 1: he's been involved with. We are aware that one of

1218
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:55,320
Speaker 1: the websites David maintains is the North America Bigfoot Search

1219
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:57,640
Speaker 1: or n A b S. And if you go on

1220
01:13:57,680 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 1: the IMDb page for the new Missing four in one

1221
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:03,639
Speaker 1: documentary that we watched for this interview, it is listed

1222
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 1: under there as the production company. It's listed in A

1223
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 1: B S. And it does seem like David has distanced

1224
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:14,000
Speaker 1: himself from this and he may not actually be involved

1225
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:16,479
Speaker 1: in the day to day operations of the site, but

1226
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 1: it is certainly a thing he has been involved in

1227
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:22,240
Speaker 1: the past. And with that, please send us your comments,

1228
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:25,680
Speaker 1: your ideas, everything we talked about earlier. Send them to

1229
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:29,160
Speaker 1: us on Twitter or on Facebook where we're Conspiracy Stuff,

1230
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:31,920
Speaker 1: or you can find us on Instagram where we're Conspiracy

1231
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:36,480
Speaker 1: Stuff Show. And that's the end of this classic episode.

1232
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:40,360
Speaker 1: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode,

1233
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:42,800
Speaker 1: you can get into contact with us in a number

1234
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:44,840
Speaker 1: of different ways. One of the best is to give

1235
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:47,479
Speaker 1: us a call. Our number is one eight three three

1236
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:50,640
Speaker 1: std w y t K. If you don't want to

1237
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:53,280
Speaker 1: do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email.

1238
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff

1239
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:00,080
Speaker 1: they Don't want you to Know is a production of

1240
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:03,120
Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart radio,

1241
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 1: visit the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever

1242
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:46,439
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. Stuff they Don't want

1243
01:15:46,439 --> 01:15:48,799
Speaker 1: you to Know is a production of I heart Radio.

1244
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart radio, visit the i

1245
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 1: heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

1246
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:55,200
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.