1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridgett. Hi, this is Annie, and you're 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: listening that stuff mob never told you, And today we're 3 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: talking about one of my favorite things, horror movies. I 4 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: can already see on your face how excited you are 5 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: to talk about horror movies. I am so excited. I 6 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: am a grown woman who probably three times a week 7 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: stays up too late watching harm You would think that's 8 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: a bit unusual, but actually it seems like a lot 9 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: of women are watching a lot of horror movies these days. Yes, 10 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: Americans have been watching them watching horror movies for decades, 11 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: but in the last year in horror films have had 12 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: particularly big numbers thanks to movies like It or Get Out. 13 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: And if you take any given horror to be in 14 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: the US, statistics show that women purchased more tickets to 15 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: it than men. Should I surprise you, It is surprising. Yeah, 16 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: but that doesn't include torture porn movies. Do you like 17 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: horror movies? Bridgets I like horror movies. Well, first of all, 18 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,639 Speaker 1: I like all movies. It's it's you'd be hard pressed 19 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: to find a movie that I don't like. I'm the 20 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: person that you know when you see commercials on TV 21 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: for big budget popcorn movies, and you think who would 22 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: go see that. I'm like the Middle America person that's like, oh, 23 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: that looks good. I'm just happy to be at the movies. 24 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: When I go to the movies, I'm like, I get 25 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: my Twizzlers and my coke, and I'm I'm just happy 26 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: to be there. So I like movies in general, but 27 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: I also love bad horror movies. Kind of a thing 28 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: that I enjoy watching me too. Yeah. Can we have 29 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: a smiinty horror movie night, Yes, horror movie meet up? Yes? Oh, 30 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: there are some that I would love to like live 31 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: stream on here. Maybe we can, Maybe we can pull 32 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: that together. Um. One reason I found for or why 33 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: women might be seeing horror movies more than men, um 34 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: is that women kind of have this low level fear 35 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: that they're just living with more than men. Are you 36 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: saying that being a woman is a little bit stressful sometimes? An, 37 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: I'm saying it might could be possibly maybe a little stressful, 38 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: and horror movies are a great way or at least 39 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: in my experience, not everyone agrees with me, but for 40 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: people who enjoy them, and they're a good way to 41 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,839 Speaker 1: relieve stress. Uh. In a way that you can't any 42 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: real life. It's a fear that you choose and therefore 43 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: you can control. And I remember an argument for um 44 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 1: why people like zombie movies so much, zombie things, and 45 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: it's because it reduces the stresses of your life to 46 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: this one terrible thing. But it does simplify things. You're 47 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: you've got to survive the zombies done hopefully. Um. And 48 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: to quote journalist at Brianna Wou, horror movies are a 49 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: world where money can't save you, privilege can't save you, 50 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: strength can't save you. So they're kind of I mean, 51 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: in a perfect world, they're kind of equalizing in that way. Yeah, 52 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: I get what you're saying. It's sort of this fantasy 53 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: world where we're all on the same playing field. Um. 54 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: Even though you know, one of the tropes and horror 55 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: movies is like all the black person dies first, or 56 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: you know. And I think that it's important to recognize 57 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: the way that tropes play out in movies like this 58 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: because you know, a lot of people might be saying, 59 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: horror movies, this is dumb, Why is this the thing 60 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about? But actually, when you look at what 61 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: we recognize as tropes in these kinds of movies, they 62 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: can tell us a lot about culture and society. And 63 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: you know what we think about women. Oh, absolutely, horror movies, 64 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: I think, and I am a fan, but I think 65 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: they say a lot about society in general. And even 66 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: though women we're seeing these movies, but when it comes 67 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: to behind the scenes, if you look at director, writer, 68 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: producer roles so on, women are very poorly represented. Um. 69 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: They're more likely to work in a documentary or drama 70 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: genres that's a fun tongue restor um, and at least 71 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: like to work in action or horror genres. They accounted 72 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: from twelve of those working on horror. According to a 73 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: study out of San Diego State University, the film industry 74 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,119 Speaker 1: in general, off screen on screen is dominated by men. 75 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 1: On screen, these films are truck full of stereotypes and 76 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: portrayals of women that are disparaging and negative and historically 77 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: a lot of messaging and tropes like you were saying 78 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: that they don't do women any favors, and one of 79 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: the most prevalent. The topic of today's episode is the 80 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: trope of the Final Girl. So I can't wait to 81 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: find out more about what exactly this trope is after 82 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: this quick break and we're back. So Annie, horror movie aficionado, 83 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: tell me about the Final Girl. Okay, I would love to, 84 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: I believe. Probably those who are familiar with horror movies 85 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: you know right away what what we're talking about with 86 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: that is, haven't without us having to explain it. But 87 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: for those that aren't big on the genre, it's the 88 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: last woman standing. In horror movies, and specifically slasher films, 89 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: the final Girl is the one to confront the killer 90 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: or the monster, whatever the thing is, after everyone else 91 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: has been slain and she survives to tell the tale. 92 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: She's almost guaranteed to be a virgin, straight white, probably brunette. Um. 93 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: She usually chased, doesn't really drink our otherwise engage in drugs, 94 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: and it is also probably rocking a gender neutral name 95 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: Sam or Joe or Alex. When I was a kid, 96 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: I always wanted a name like that. I did too. 97 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: I wanted Will or Jack. I wanted Billy Billy that's 98 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: close to Will. I like that um and probably is masculine, 99 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: well not masculine, but masculine ish hairstyle. The Final Girl 100 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: choke at it start in the nineteen seventies, but it 101 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: wasn't until that American film professor Carol Clover first coined 102 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,799 Speaker 1: the term in her book Men, Women in Chainsaws, Gender 103 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: and the Modern Horror Film. Clover argued that in order 104 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: to survive, the Final Girl had to in some way 105 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: become more masculine, m probably by adopting a weapon of 106 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,799 Speaker 1: the phallic variety, like a spear, a spear or a knife. Um, 107 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: something you stick in someone, Yes, got it? Thank you 108 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 1: for the gesture. At least I don't know if you 109 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: know how it works. That's how I do it. She's banking, 110 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: stabbing motion starts me totally non threatening podcast, no, no, 111 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: I'm totally safe. Clover interprets this as messaging of women 112 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 1: needing men are needing to be masculine in order to 113 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: survive this horrible ordeal they are going through. Lori from Halloween, 114 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: a k a. Jamie Lee Curtis's character is one of 115 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: the first and most pure examples of the Final Girl, 116 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: and one of the interesting things about her is that 117 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: throughout the course of this film, she uses traditionally feminine 118 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: objects like a knitting needle or a coat hanger as 119 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: her weapons of choice or necessity. Probably is more accurate 120 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: other famous final girls include Ripley from Alien, Nancy from 121 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: The Nightmare in Elm Street, and even Sydney from one 122 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: of my favorite horror movies making fun of horror movies, 123 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,559 Speaker 1: Wes Craven's films Screen. Okay, so let's talk about Scream 124 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: because it's one of my favorite movies. She's such a 125 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: clever example of the final girl where it kind of 126 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,119 Speaker 1: spins the trope on its head to comment on it, Yeah, yeah, 127 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: and I love they were so sneaky about it because 128 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,239 Speaker 1: um Drew Barrymore was the biggest star at the time. 129 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: And if you look at the cover, she's on the front, 130 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: like she's prominently not just on the front, she's they're 131 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: all standing in a line, and she's like the first 132 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: girl in the line, prominently displayed. Yes, and she fits 133 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: the bill of what you would imagine a final girl is. 134 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: The movie starts with her, but she dies within the 135 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: first fifteen minutes. She's in the Yeah, she's in the 136 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: movie for like five minutes. Yeah, and he's sober sister 137 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: and all the other girls about drinking and partying. So 138 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: she's like the opposite of final Girl, the opposite of 139 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: final first first girl, First Girls. She was first, and 140 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: the one that It's Stuck with Me that was quite 141 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: the brutal, brutal scene. Uh and Scream also has a 142 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: horror movie buff Randy and Randy. Uh. He even directly 143 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: speaks to the rules of surviving a horror movie and 144 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 1: a couple of them are never say I'll be back. Um. 145 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: Never two jugs or alcohol for the love that is 146 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: all all that is holy in the world. Do not 147 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: have sex or show your boobs. Don't show you. Once 148 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: you show your moobs, you're pretty much that you pretty 149 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: much just crawl into a grave. Right You're through. Another 150 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: great example of a subversion of The Final Girl is 151 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: Twelves Cabin and Cabin in the Woods. Excuse me. This 152 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: movie directly addresses the trope to so there's this bengeful god, 153 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: which I'm fairly certain is meant to represent the American audience. UM. 154 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: And the Final Girl Dana, She's chase, she's smart, she's 155 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 1: sexually conservative. Pale Brunette is given the chance at survival, 156 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,719 Speaker 1: but only after making sure all of her friends died. 157 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: And they're on this cabin Cabin in the woods like 158 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: trip Um, and she has to make sure all of 159 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: her friends die and she is the Final Girl, and 160 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: each of her friends fits the stereotype too, but only 161 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: after they were forced to fit into them through weird circumstances. 162 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: So there's a blonde, slooty bimbo, the dumb jock played 163 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: by Chris hims Worth, he's so cute, the stoner, and 164 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: the sweet bookish guy. Um that is the Final Girl's 165 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: sweetheart of course, and it's it's so hard to explain 166 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: this movie without having seen it, but basically, like there's 167 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: this government entity that's watching them through secret like security cameras, 168 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: making sure that they fulfill the prophecy of this final God. 169 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: Is that the plot of the movie? Yeah, I haven't 170 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: seen it full disclosure. Yeah, well I don't spoil it 171 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: for you. Oh no, well yeah, it's it's like this 172 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: weird government thing where there's a god. They have to 173 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: satisfy the god by meeting this criteria. So the sweet 174 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: girl has to wind up with the bookish guy and 175 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: that's how she sort of say, that's how she pleases 176 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: this this god who's watching above and does that Does 177 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: that ensure her safety? Does that? Is that what allows 178 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: for to get out of the situation? No, she can 179 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: either have sex or not and she can either die 180 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: or not. And it's actually really sad. There's a sad 181 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: moment where they take bets the government. People watching like 182 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: is she gonna have sex? Is she gonna die? Like? 183 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: How is she going to die? And there's a moment 184 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: where she's getting the crap beat out of her and 185 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: they're just watching like wondering is she going to survive? 186 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: And it's weird because you're as the viewer, You're in 187 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: that position, right, You're watching someone when you're watching horror movie, 188 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: wondering is she going to survive? And it's brutal. It 189 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: goes on for a long time, and it's the same 190 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: in horror movies. Um, it is worth it's worth a watch, 191 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: but it's a strange one. And it also has the 192 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: virgin Horde dichotomy of Dana the final girl who is 193 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: pure and innocent, but she's sexualized when she actually has sex, 194 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: she is looked out upon. She's seen as less than 195 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: she was, just like in society, you're you're all my 196 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: wave length here, um. And the person overseeing this whole thing, 197 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: she's called the director, um, and she's played by Sigourney 198 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: Weaver tells Dana that she fulfills the virgin archetype. But 199 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: when Dana is actually I had sex, you know, the 200 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: director tells her, we work with what we have. So 201 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: it's also kind of a commentary on on these different tropes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 202 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil it, but definitely check it 203 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: out if you're interested. It does not sound anything like 204 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: what I thought it was going to be like when 205 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: he started. I don't know if you remember the posters, 206 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: but the posters said things like it was obviously a 207 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: horror movie just through the decor and the whole feel 208 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: of it. But it would say like if you hear 209 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: a strange noise, separate like the opposite things of what 210 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: you should be doing. Now that I think about it, 211 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: the trailers and stuff didn't I didn't understand. Now it 212 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: makes more sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And as a horror 213 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: movie fan, it's I very much enjoyed it because there's 214 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: one part where like every horror movie villain ever is 215 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: on display, because it could be they kind of draw 216 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: randomly what the villain is of what every year they 217 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: have to fulfill this prophecy. So they have this like 218 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 1: case of every horror movie Villa and ever, they could 219 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: pull from I like freeze Frameman, like oh yeah this frame, 220 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh my god. Growing up, what villain were 221 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: you the most afraid of? Oh man, the girl from 222 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: the Ring Tomorrow. I saw that like right when it 223 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 1: came out in theaters, and I covered my TV. I 224 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,839 Speaker 1: unplugged it, I covered it, I unplugged the phone, and 225 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: I kept getting in trouble with my mom. She'd be like, 226 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: who's unplugging the phone? Like seven days later, sitting in 227 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: my room wide awake. Yeah, that was pretty scary. Mine 228 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: was Chucky. I'm still unnerved by Chucky. I saw child 229 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 1: to play in the theater when it first came out, 230 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: So I was a kid. My parents were the kind 231 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: of parents who, like I was like, I'm not paying 232 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: for a babysitter and bringing all the kids here. You 233 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: know that family where you're like you brought all the kids? 234 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: That was um. But I saw Chucky at a really 235 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: young age, and my brother loved Chucky. So we had 236 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: the doll and like the poster and all this stuff, 237 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: like he had Chucky paraphernalia. And to this to this day, 238 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: I find it unnerving. I'm bothered by it as an adult. 239 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: That's some staying power those movies you see as a kid. 240 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: Another one of mine that we'll be talking about in 241 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: a little bit is Alien. Oh yeah, that's a that's 242 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: a good one that took you when when I think 243 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: about Chucky, I mean it was obviously as the movies 244 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: went on, they were pretty hokey, but they illustrate something 245 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: that you were just talking about, which is this weird 246 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: mix between female sexuality and horror and also like maybe 247 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: a little bit of camp because as the Child's play 248 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: movies went on, they had the one where, um, it's 249 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: Bride of Chucky and it's a it's a grown woman. 250 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: I think it's Jennifer Tilly, right, So it's Jennifer Tilly 251 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: and she's this sort of like throaty voiced blonde and 252 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: she become like she has a sexual relationship with Chucky 253 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: and they end up having a child in this in 254 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: this later iterations of the film, and again it's this 255 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: weird thing where horror movies always present this very unusual 256 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: image of female sexuality, and you know, in Chucky, you're 257 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: like she shaking a doll, like what's going on. But 258 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: it's it's interesting how a lot of horror movies always 259 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: have like a sexy scene or something like that that 260 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: you it's almost expected, and how they display female sexuality 261 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: in this very weird way. Yeah. Yeah, And I think 262 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: you could extrapolate that and say that society sees it 263 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: as that way because at their core, I think horror 264 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:25,239 Speaker 1: movies they simplify the norms and taboos of society into 265 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: if you break these, you will be punished. There are 266 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: consequences for having sex outside of marriage. If you're a woman. 267 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: There are consequences were doing drugs or alcohol as a 268 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: not twenty one year old, you know. So I think 269 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons that I'm glad we're talking 270 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: about this today is I think you can take lessons 271 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: from that, or at least it gives you a little 272 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: snapshot of where we are perhaps as a society. Um 273 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: and going back to Cavin in the Woods for a second, 274 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: can we talk about the vampires? Can we? Can we? Ever? 275 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: Buffy is kind of the TV version of the Final Girl. 276 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: Week after week, she's the last one after fighting vampires 277 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: or demons or whatever, although fortunately most of her friends 278 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: did survive. In the final episode of Buffy, she's speaking 279 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: to a group of potential successors potential slayers, and she 280 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: comments on kind of this whole thing directly. She says, 281 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: in every generation, one slayer is born because a bunch 282 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: of men who died thousands of years ago made up 283 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: that rule. From now on, every girl in the world 284 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: who might be a slayer will be a slayer. Every 285 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: girl who could have the power will have the power, 286 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: can stand up, will stand up slayers. Every one of 287 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: us make your choice? Are you ready to be strong? 288 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: So every girl is is a final girl? Yes, we 289 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: all have the power to be the final girl. And 290 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: I just love the line of men thousands of years 291 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: ago made that rule because I kind of think that's 292 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: what the final girl is. This The first scripts about 293 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: these Final Girls were written by men, and then because 294 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: they sold well or um, they were popular, they just continued. 295 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: All the scripts continue to be kind of the same formula. 296 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 1: And now that now that we're kind of mixing it 297 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 1: up a little bit and trying different things, we're seeing 298 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 1: that other things could work too, People might enjoy a 299 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: different take, perhaps, Yeah, And I think what that really 300 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: shows is that we're ready for different kinds of storytelling, 301 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: that we don't have to rely on one trope or 302 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: one theme. Just because it was popular successful. There are 303 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 1: all different kinds of different stories that I think people 304 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: want to see. Even look at the success of something 305 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: like get Out, which was very unusual, not quite like 306 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: any horror thriller movie I've ever seen, and people loved it, 307 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: And so I think that the industry can get very 308 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: it's kind of stuck in a run of telling the 309 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: same story, the same types of story and get it 310 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: again and again. But then when a story comes and 311 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: it's not like that, people really pay attention. Yeah, and 312 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: I think some nostalgia plays a role in that as well, 313 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: just people remember those movies as a kid and they 314 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: want to kind of have maybe nomage or just that's 315 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: what they liked, so they want to recreate it, and 316 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: people keep recreating it. But yeah, I think we're we 317 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 1: might be ready for something new. And Buffy, before we 318 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 1: move on, she has another great quote related to this, 319 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: where her boyfriend of the time, I believe, is saying 320 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 1: they were watching a horror movie and he says, I 321 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: want to know what happens, and Buffy says, everyone gets 322 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: horribly killed, except the blonde girl in the night who 323 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: finally kills the monster with a machete. But it's not 324 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: really dead and he says, oh really, She says, I 325 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: don't know what movie is this. It's true though, I 326 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: mean like you can sort of if you've seen one, 327 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: you've seen them all in a kind of way. So 328 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: she's not wrong. Yeah, there's certainly at the beginning, I 329 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: usually am like, probably not gonna live, Probably not gonna live. 330 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: I know, there's even a table for like percentages based 331 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: just on um, hair color, skin color, what they do. Well, 332 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: that's like this movie House of Wax. You've ever seen that? 333 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,719 Speaker 1: So in that that movie when it came out, this 334 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: was in the heyday of Paris Hilton. That seems like 335 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: forever ago, but whatever, it wasn't that long ago. That 336 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 1: movie has a perfect example of a of a final 337 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: girl where it's the brunette girl. She's got to have 338 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: a name like Sam or Joe. She probably doesn't, but 339 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: like you know, she she probably does. Like don't write 340 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: in if she doesn't, but I think she does. She 341 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: wears like in the beginning of the movie, she gets 342 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: like deer guts on her, so she has to change 343 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: her clothes, and so she's wearing male clothes for most 344 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: of the movie because her clothes get destroyed into her 345 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: brother gives gives her like his tank top that happens 346 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: to be very sexy by the way, So it's a 347 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: it's a men sure, but like somehow luckily it falls perfectly, 348 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: I mean, thank god. Um So, she's the kind of chased, 349 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: brown haired, somewhat masculine, you know, clearly being set up 350 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: to be the final girl. Paris Hilton. On the other hand, 351 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 1: you know she's gonna die soon, like before you even 352 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: see the movie. You know exactly, like they're definitely gonna 353 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: kill her. She's blonde, she has like a sexy scene 354 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: with her boyf in the movie. She's in an interracial relationship. 355 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: She wears a pink track suit throughout most of the movie. 356 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: She's kind of presented as the one who's supposed to 357 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: be vapid or fast, and her death scene is gruesome. 358 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: She gets a like a rusty pole through her head, 359 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,959 Speaker 1: and you can tell that the filmmakers are presenting this 360 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,959 Speaker 1: as a gratuitous death scene almost like you know, you 361 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: guys know you came to watch Paris Hilton take a 362 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: metal pole to the head. Like it's almost seems to 363 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: be the gaze seems to be very gratuitous, as if 364 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: the audience is waiting to see Paris Hulton die a bloody, 365 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: painful death. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, that's something we're definitely going 366 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: to come back to. And it's just a weird kind 367 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: of thing when you're shown this very violent death and 368 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: you're obviously supposed to like take pleasure in it. That's 369 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: not why I like horror movies, but UM, I guess 370 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: I guess that's something other people enjoy. UM. If we're 371 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: if we're talking about the history of this, where did 372 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: this come from? Um? Like we were saying earlier, you 373 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: could argue that most horror movies exist to scare people 374 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: into following a certain set of norms. And the final Girl, 375 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 1: I would say, there's no exception. They kind of serve 376 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: as the everyman or every woman. She's tough, resilient, and 377 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: you root for her. I when I was thinking about this, 378 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: I'm I was wondering if maybe she's the least common 379 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: denominator of I don't know if that's the right way 380 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: to say it, but she's the simplest way to get 381 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 1: people to root for someone to survive. Most people can 382 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: get on board with this person. This kind of watered 383 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: down safe, Heaven forbid bridges all the other victims, Like 384 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: we were saying, you can point to why they died 385 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: in terms of sort of a moral majority outlook. Um, 386 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: the vices they indulge in, the mistakes they made. Um. 387 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 1: Horror movies all about punishing, especially young people, I would say. 388 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: And when a trope emerged in the nineteen seventies, the 389 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: u S was in the midst of all kinds of political, sexual, 390 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 1: and economic unrest. As feminism was rising, so is the 391 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: backlash to it. And the common interpretation of slasher picks 392 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: is summarized by I would say this quote from Students 393 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: of All Things Horror, Robin Woods. The violence against women 394 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: movies have generally been explained as a hysterical response to 395 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 1: sixties and seventies feminism. The male spectator enjoys a statistic 396 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: revenge on women who have begun to refuse to slot 397 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: neatly and obligingly into his patriarchal patriarchally hard to say, yeah, patriarchally, 398 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: there we go predetermined view of the way things should 399 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: naturally be in a male dominated culture where power, money, law, 400 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: and social institutions are controlled by past, present, and future patriarchs. 401 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: Women as the other assumes particular significance. The dominant images 402 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: of women in our culture are entirely male creat it 403 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 1: and male controlled. Women's autonomy and independence are denied onto women. 404 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: Men project their own innate, repressed femininity in order to 405 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,959 Speaker 1: disown it as inferior. In general, the teenagers are punished 406 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: for promisecurity, while the women are punished for being women. Well, 407 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: that's just like what this film scholar Linda Williams says. 408 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: She says the horror film maybe the rare example of 409 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: a genre that permits the expression of women's sexual potency 410 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: and desire and associates this desire with the autonomous act 411 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: of looking. But it does so only to punish her 412 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: for this very act, only to demonstrate how monstrous female 413 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: desire can be. And I have this great example in 414 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: my head and this very weird horror movie that I 415 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: saw as a child called Jack Frost. Have you seen it? 416 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: This is this is gonna be a little bit like 417 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 1: your Cabin in the Woods explanation, So you haven't seen it. 418 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 1: It's very difficult to explain, but essentially, it's a movie 419 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: that takes place during Christmas time and a serial killer 420 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: is killed in the snow by being doused with some 421 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: sort of chemical or acid is like d NA gets 422 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: into the snow, you know, don't I don't overthink it. 423 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: He then comes back to life as a snowman, like 424 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: a murdering snowman. And so because he's a snowman, he 425 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: has the ability to like melt and refreeze, So melt 426 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: into water, then refreeze and just and a snowman. And 427 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: Shannon Elizabeth who you might remember from American Pie. In 428 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: one scene, she's taking a bath and I think she 429 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: might be touching herself in the bath and the snowman. 430 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,479 Speaker 1: This sounds like I'm making get up, but if you've 431 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: seen it, you know I'm not. And go watch it 432 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,719 Speaker 1: and you can be like you were accurate. He melts 433 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: into water, goes into the bathroom, becomes the bathwater that 434 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: she's in, and then he basically violates her with his 435 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: carrot nose, and that's how she's killed. And so it's 436 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: interesting because the scene is shot in such a way 437 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: that's exactly what this film scholar Linda Williams is explaining, 438 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: where you are watching like a beautiful woman in a bathtub, 439 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: you know, enjoying her own sexuality and her own sexual 440 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: dis or sexual potency, whatever. And immediately after that, she 441 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: is killed in the most gruesome, dehumanizing way, and it's 442 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: played for laughs in the movie. And so within the 443 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:15,239 Speaker 1: universe of this movie, the expectation of us the audience is, 444 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: you saw this beautiful woman having a sexual moment alone. 445 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: You were sort of spying on her, and now she's 446 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: dead in this horribly dehumanizing way. Isn't that a riot? 447 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: You know? It's sort of sort of exactly what she's 448 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: saying that because Shannon Elizabeth was shown within the confines 449 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: of this film being a sexual person, that we the 450 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: audience one get to kind of leer at that and 451 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: to get to watch her die in a terrible way 452 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: because of that. Yeah, you could almost say that It's like, 453 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 1: and I've seen this in other non horror movies too, 454 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: but um, just things like a female sexuality or even 455 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: periods and Ridget knows, I have a whole theory a 456 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,239 Speaker 1: theory about this um or seemed as monstrous or at 457 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,880 Speaker 1: least they're kind of like symbolize this, this scary monstrous thing. 458 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: Um and horror movies are just a perfect if you 459 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: analyze them, if you over analyze them, perhaps like I 460 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 1: do um And if we go back to the seventies, 461 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: and this is one of my favorite examples in the US. 462 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: As women are getting more power and exploring our sexuality, 463 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: so many horror movies proliferated in response. And Alien is 464 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,719 Speaker 1: one of my faiths, even if at the time at 465 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: the time, I wasn't alive then, But when I was 466 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: a kid, they terrified me. Those movies did. I could 467 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: do a whole mini series on this, on sexual imagery 468 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: and symbolism and messaging in the Alien series, And I 469 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: want to, and we should. There are so many symbols 470 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: of emasculation of the male, fear and anxiety of having 471 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: to share equal responsibility of childbirth and child bearing. I'm 472 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: telling you, you cannot see it should be a whole series. 473 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 1: I want to so bad. I mean, if we if 474 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: we could live stream watching that, I mean, you'd have 475 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: to be of age. But we need to do a 476 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: mystery science three thousand viewing of Alien, where it's you 477 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: and me, the silhouettes of our head making feminist commentary 478 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: at the screen. Yes, ruining it for you forever. I 479 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: love ruining things. It's my favorite pastime. I still love 480 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: the movie and it has it's like interesting to see 481 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 1: from that time period kind of what was going on. 482 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: Another thing to consider is that when you look at 483 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: how the male characters versus the female characters are killed, 484 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: there is usually this element of torture or brutality involved 485 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: in the deaths of the women that it's not there 486 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: and death of the men. And key two is how 487 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: the killer monster whatever it is have what have you, 488 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: terrorizes the Final Girl. It's kind of like what you 489 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: were talking about, Bridget that, like we're expect did to 490 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: kind of enjoy this, like set up to enjoy it, 491 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: but male characters generally get a much more merciful death. Um. 492 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: And another tripe that dovetails with the Final Girl is 493 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: called men are the expendable gender. And this is the 494 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: idea that women automatically have the sympathy of the audience 495 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: while men don't. Oh, in horror movies, they mow through 496 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: men like they're not right people. They like mow them down. Yeah, 497 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: you're kind of like, oh no, sorry, buddy. The Walking 498 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: Dead's Nagan sums it up this way. I don't enjoy 499 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: killing women men. I can waste them all the live 500 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: long I didn't try to do Jeffrey Dean Morgan voice there. 501 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: That's probably for the best. Yeah, probably, I want to 502 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: hear this impression. We can we can take it off air, 503 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: we can do it off perfect. I think you definitely 504 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,239 Speaker 1: see this trope out of movies, and I think it 505 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: goes back to this thing that EMM and I talked 506 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: about once, where it's benevolent sexism where women are sort 507 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: of it on the same level as children in terms 508 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: of their helplessness, and so films tend to fall on 509 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: this idea that, oh, the audience is going to sympathize 510 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: with the woman. I've seen movies where the woman is 511 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: pregnant but hasn't told anybody, and that when she survives, 512 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: the audience is like, woofah, God, she's pregnant. You know. Yeah, 513 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: I definitely think that plays into it too, that the 514 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: whole thing where women could be pregnant and that they're 515 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: more maybe fragile. Um that, Yeah, benevolent sexism is a 516 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: great way to think about that trope. Probably. So Annie 517 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: is the Final Girl is a feminist trope in film 518 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: or No, I would say no, Um, it's still a 519 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: trope that's written by men and largely for men. I 520 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,479 Speaker 1: would say it's a reaction to feminism. Um, but like, 521 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: if you look at the use of POV shots at 522 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: the killer or monster that's talking the Final Girl, it 523 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: demonstrates that we as the audience are still encouraged to 524 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: identify with the generally male tormentor that the male force 525 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: that is punishing or tormenting this woman, it was probably 526 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: still masculine. So all is to say, I do love 527 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: horror movies and just good to know the messaging you're 528 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: receiving from the entertainment. You're like, and it's not all bad, right, 529 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: Bridget That's exactly right. This is actually changing a little bit. 530 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of the ways this is changing 531 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: for the better after this quick break and we're back. 532 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: We were just talking about the Final Girl trope and 533 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: some of the ways that trope is changing a little 534 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: bit as we go forward in storytelling and movies and 535 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: all of that. So one of the reasons why it's 536 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: changing really has to do with self awareness. We sort 537 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: of recognize this trope as audiences and we kind of 538 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: want something that's more creative. I think, just like with 539 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: the example we gave with Get Out earlier, today, I 540 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: think we're sort of done with the same old stories 541 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: that we always see, particularly in horror, and so I 542 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: think audiences expect something different. They don't expect the same 543 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: movies that we saw in the seventies and the eighties 544 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: and the nineties, and so that's one of the reasons 545 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: you find this trope not being as prevalent. Yeah, and 546 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: I will say thanks to this episode for giving me 547 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: some of the most fun homework I've ever had. Um 548 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: I watched a movie called The Final Girl, which was 549 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: all about the Final Girl trope, and it was enjoyable. 550 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: But I also watched so many movies that sort of 551 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: play with that trope, a lot of them available on Netflix. 552 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: Another one of the reasons that this is changing, that 553 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: we're getting away from that is that there are more 554 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: female directors and writers and roles, more female stories. If 555 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: the Final Girl is a product of the male gaze, 556 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: then it seems like the solution is to get more 557 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: women in the industry. I come back to that as 558 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: a solution to pretty much everything. So you have more 559 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: women in the mix, whether it's the military, professional sports, whatever, 560 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: it's always gonna be better. And so one of the 561 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: soapboxes I love to get on. Exmin t is more women, 562 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: storyteller is more diverse, storyteller is more inclusive storytelling. And 563 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: I'm happy to see that more women are in the 564 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: mix telling different kinds of stories. Yeah, yeah, me too. Uh. 565 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: Study out of from Google and the Jena Davis Institute 566 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: on Gender and Media found that in all genres of entertainment, 567 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: men had twice the speaking in scream time, with one 568 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: exception horror, while traditionally that female screen time might have 569 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: been those of the screaming victim variety, but it has 570 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: been moving towards more nuanced survivors and protagonists. And um, 571 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: as someone who has acted in some horror movies, I 572 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: can say that, um, I get so many bad casting calls, 573 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: but they are it has become less. I think there 574 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: is an increased awareness, perhaps out of actually almost absolutely 575 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: out of totally selfish means, but I'm glad to see 576 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: it is moving that way. Still still some work to 577 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: be done, absolutely, but as always yes, So this has 578 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: been really interesting. As someone who hasn't really spent that 579 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: much time picking apart of the horror movies that I watch, 580 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: it's interesting to think about how these movie tropes do 581 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: kind of show us about how women are seen in society. Yeah, 582 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: and UM, I do want to mention some some examples 583 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: something some movies that are good, UM, examples of how 584 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: it is changing. Before we before we're done here raw 585 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: from French director. It might take a bit of a 586 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: strong stomach, but it's good. Um the invitation Bob a duke. 587 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: A girl walks home alone at night and it follows 588 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: they all these films have female directors and female main characters, 589 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: and but they might have a final girl. But she's 590 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: a more complex final girl. So if you're interested, I 591 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: believe all of those are on Netflix and UM. As 592 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: advertisers and studios realize the buying power of of us ladies. Um, 593 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: the shift towards a more complex storytelling, especially involving women, 594 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: has started to take place. So that's that's good. That 595 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 1: that makes me feel better. As a horror movie fan, 596 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 1: I'm excited for that content to be made. I just 597 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: realized something. As a girl with brown hair, if we 598 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: were in a horror movie, you might be a final girl. 599 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: Just saying oh no, I mean yes, I mean you're 600 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: gonna live. I'll definitely die. You're gonna live. We'll make 601 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: a sminty horror movie, and we'll we'll flip the tropes 602 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: all upside down. Bridget everyone lives, everyone lives. It's like 603 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: Buffy will all be the final Girl. I like it. 604 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: I love it. That's a great feminist message to end on. 605 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: It is so sminty. Listeners, have you seen this final 606 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,879 Speaker 1: girl troupe playing out in movies that you like? What's 607 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: your favorite example of a final girl? Let us know. 608 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, 609 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: on Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told You, and we 610 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 1: love getting your emails at mom Stuff at how stuff 611 00:34:53,840 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: works dot com. Two t