WEBVTT - Part Six: G. Gordon Liddy: The Fascist Behind Watergate 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:10.880 Who Zone Media. Oh yeah, it's Behind the Bastards, a 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:16.239 podcast that I open with the grunting noises that no 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:20.759 one really likes, no one, No one's happy when I 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:21.120 do this. 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.680 Really, it's got, it's got a little like we're doing this. 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:30.479 Yeah, it reminds me of home. 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:35.680 It feels like a safe when I open up pro tools. 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:38.920 It reminds me of home in a perilous way to me, 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:44.199 but in a way that makes you not want to return. Well, 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.400 let's all hope the audience all agrees with Ian and 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:50.879 we didn't. We didn't just torpedo our careers by me 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:56.440 making grunt noises, guttural grunts in order to Yeah, exactly, 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:00.800 good stuff, good times, welcome back to the show. We 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:03.760 are finishing Liddy, what I promise will be our last 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:08.280 episode on the g Man Mixed feelings, you know, ready 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.320 to move on to another bastard. But also we get 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:13.400 to listen to a lot of fear Factor today and 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:17.440 that's something that should make everyone happy now. Much like 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.160 the Catholics and g Gordon, Liddy was raised as a Catholic, 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:23.120 he kind of becomes agnostic later on. But the Catholics believe, 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.319 as I understand it that before getting to heaven, you 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:31.640 generally go through a period in purgatory. Right, Maybe that's wrong, 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:34.240 but let's all just pretend that the Catholics believe that right. 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.240 In a similar fashion, before we get to the heaven. 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.120 That is, watching a two thousand and six episode of 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.760 Fear Factor starring g. Gordon Liddy, we have to go 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:45.800 through the hell of listening to a bunch of clips 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:50.520 from G. Gordon Liddy's incredibly racist radio show. So you know, 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.960 buckle up, everybody. Hopefully the Pope will help us out 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:56.760 of this jam. 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:58.360 It's wild. 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:00.600 It's wild that there was a good I guess the 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:04.040 good period of Joe Rogan is unimpeachably news radio. So 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:06.800 whatever this means, this is this is the purgatory of 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:07.480 Joe Rogan. 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:10.440 This is right before he goes to hell. He doesn't 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:13.480 make it through the cut, right, Yeah, it's like going 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:16.679 to med's school and becoming a dentist. Ooh that's right, 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:21.680 dentist burns baby. Sorry, you know a lot of people 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:22.400 really enjoy it. 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:22.920 By whatever. 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.240 It's fine, man, it's fine. It's fine. So we ended 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.880 last episode with him finishing his book frightening his wife, 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:33.400 singing a Nazi songs. He's back in full He's so 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:37.079 back right, He's doing the full litty So he is, however, 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.840 in a pretty desperate financial situation when he gets out 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:43.240 of prison and it still owes about three hundred thousand dollars. 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.600 It's a mix of fines and legal fees. He decides 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.120 to take a spin at being a writer, because what 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:51.920 other paths are open to him, and in nineteen seventy 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.000 nine he writes a fiction book called Out of Control. 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:58.280 It is a spy thriller. The Google book summary of 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.400 it does not make it sound like a particularly good one. 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.600 Richard Rand is a CIA rogue pulled back into the 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:08.440 company for one last incredible mission. Gregory Ballinger is the 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:11.640 Soviet spy whose empire Rand is out to destroy. But 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.560 in a dance of deception from Washington to Switzerland and 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:18.440 South America, the tables are suddenly turned. Someone in Washington 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:21.440 wants the KG beat to wind and Richard Ran dead. 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:27.400 Now so pretty boring, Certainly, I have not found any 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:30.440 evidence that this was particularly good or that it had 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:34.440 any new ideas. Pretty I think he's his idea was 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.880 I put out a very basic pot boiler fiction and 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.720 hopefully my fame as a Watergate conspirator makes a problem, 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.200 you know, not a not a bad idea, No, And 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.040 Howard Hunt had done that because he'd been an author before, 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.800 like he immediately start and it had worked for him. 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:52.240 Kind of, so I think he's kind of cribbing from 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.400 Howard Hunt's worksheet here. We may do a book episode 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:56.880 on this at so at this point at some point, 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:58.800 but I kind of doubt it. He's He's not a 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.360 bad enough writer that I think this will be very entertaining. 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:02.480 Yeah. 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:06.240 Yeah, that said, his next idea is much better, which 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.520 is to write his Watergate memoir, which he publishes the 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.440 next year, nineteen eighty, and it sells like a million copies. 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:15.320 He makes a shitload of money off of this, and 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.680 once his book becomes a bestseller, Liddy finally finds himself 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:22.160 more famous than he'd ever been, and all these conservative 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.880 student associations at colleges around the country start clamoring to 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.520 pay him to come and speak at their universities. Now 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:31.520 listeners will know, I am of the opinion that college 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.040 campus speaking tours are among the chief threats of our 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:37.960 democracy and should be targeted via air power. However, if 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.120 anyone does want to pay me to speak at your school. 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.640 I will be happy to do so. So please, Yeah, yeah, 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:44.360 bring me over. I've done it a couple of times. 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:49.000 It's always a good fun. So. The Washington Post reports 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.080 on Liddy's comeback tour, and their reporter is bemused at 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:55.599 the popularity that this convicted felon and fascist has with 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:59.760 college students. Here's their article for nineteen eighty. It's incredible. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.400 Jush is Donnie Epstein, Lyddy's New York agent. He goes 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:05.960 to these college campuses and draws a full house. They 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:07.640 start by hissing and booing it. At the end they 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.800 give him a standing ovation. He turns them completely around. 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:14.640 They love him. During his speech, Lyddy paces across the stage, 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.400 coiling his microphone cord in one hand, unraveling it with 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:20.000 the other. Dressed in a gray suit, wearing spit shined 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.760 black boots, he speaks in staccato style, interspersing his dialogue 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:27.720 with Latin phrases and quotes from Julius Caesar. Oh my gosh, 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.600 he's good at this. The demand for Lyddy is titanic. 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.520 He gives thirty two speeches in the first forty two 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:39.440 days after his booking opens. There are protests by student 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.960 groups who are angry, in particularly that their tuition money 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:44.720 is going to fucking g Gordon Liddy. One of the 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:46.720 things that's interesting to me, the Washington Post spends like 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:50.280 a paragraph mentioning the protests. This barely merits a mention 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:52.840 in nineteen eighty when in two thoson seventeen and eighteen, 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.559 anytime there were protests of college, there's every the Post, 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:58.080 in the New York Times, they were all all these 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.279 quote unquote liberal papers falling over themselves to write articles 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.480 about like, well, free speech isn't danger because students aren't 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:08.120 happy that they're paying these fascists to speak. Nobody gave 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:12.039 a shit in nineteen eighty interesting, So that whole article 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:15.080 is a bleak but important read. And I have trouble 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:18.200 not hearing the siren song of the apocalypse in responses 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:22.080 like this from dipshit college kids. He's just so intelligent, 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:25.080 said Jane Copp, a sophomore at Creighton, a Jesuit run 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.120 school with fifty six hundred students. Before I heard him, 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.960 I figured he was a psycho. Amy Jersik, another Creton sophomore, said, 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:35.200 but he is really fascinating, and he expresses himself so well. 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.640 He is just so pro American, such a super patriot, 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:40.800 that you have to admire him even if you disagree. 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.159 Aaron de Wald, who was with coppin Jersick, interjected. One 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.360 Creighton student described that he as a modern John Wayne. 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.560 And look, I know all these kids are old people now, 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:54.200 but listeners, if one of these former students is your relative, 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.960 pie him in the face this November, don't even explain. 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:00.680 Why get him right in the fucking kiss with like 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.320 a pecan pie. Pecan is the most aggressive pie to 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.120 get hit by. Really really bash him with it. You know, 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:08.920 That's that's what we're asking you all. 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.800 I mean, this is also clearly cherry picked from the 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:14.440 bozo's coming out. 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.720 It's literally one group of free three friends, right, the free, 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:19.080 shittiest people at the school. 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:21.320 Yeah, it's no, I mean it's like, you know, every 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:25.480 college has a fucking libertarian association, Like it's it's those 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:30.600 fucking right wing freaks. Yeah, and like yeah you could, 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.800 and you can tell it's because they know what quote 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:37.040 centrist or I'm not right or left of an independent 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:38.080 thinker thing to say. 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:40.920 But yeah, you know that is of course just code 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:44.960 for right wing freak. That is exactly right, and that 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:48.560 that's that's my take on it to Andrew. So the 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:51.800 next major move Liddy makes is a pretty intelligent one. 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.760 He partners up with Timothy Leary to go on a 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:59.280 series of debates and college campuses across the nation. And Leary, 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:03.160 you know, he's this kind of prophet of the acid age. 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:07.720 He becomes this figure who embodies left wing rebellion during 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.840 like the hippie period the sixties. He's in jail several 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.480 He's broken out once. In the Who's song The Seeker, 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:16.640 you know, I'm the Seeker. I've been searching low and high. 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:18.960 There's a line in there about like asking Timothy Leary 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.760 for guidance and stuff like. You know, he is very 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.520 famous and very famous specifically for being this like left 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:29.000 wing iconic last and you know he does. He is 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:31.960 in jail, in prison at the same time that Lyddy 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:35.199 is theory. Actually they wind up in the same facility 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:37.480 at one point, and they're both these they're both these 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:41.400 like iconic clasts who are seen as embodying their respective 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.400 sides of the political aisle. Right, tim Leary is this 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.680 embodiment of the sixties and early seventies left and Lyddy 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:50.600 is kind of the same thing for the right. 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:53.720 I don't want to know true scott'sman this, but it's 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:58.400 also like, yeah, this is like starts to crack into 0:08:58.440 --> 0:08:59.840 the moral bankruptcy of the world. 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:01.760 These like yes, out of here. 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.280 Yes, I I don't like Tim Leary, right, I'm not. 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.560 I'm not a fan of the man particularly, so you 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.520 know That's where I'm coming from here. They they have 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.240 a lot in common and that they are both famous 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.640 and both fame hounds, and they both understand partnering with 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:18.840 each other will increase the appeal. It's also worth noting 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.959 that at this time, by the time Leary is partnering 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:25.280 on the speaking too, which is like the early eighties 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:29.280 kind of he is not really left wing anymore. He's 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:32.439 more of a libertarian and kind of that that early web. No, 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.400 not that not what libertarian often means today, which is 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.679 like even worse than a normal republican. But like that 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:41.959 that is you know, your your pro civil rights, your 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:46.880 you're pro pro you know, legalizing drugs, anti the state generally, 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.680 but still also not anti capitalists by any measure of 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:51.480 the imagination. 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:54.960 Yeah, still it's taxes. They spend way too much time 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:58.480 talking about taxes, and yeah, it is wild heled. 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.440 Modern libertarians are most we just known for try to 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:02.760 defend pedophilia. 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:05.160 As far as I could tell, it's like give terrrible 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:07.720 heroin to the child I'm dating. 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:10.640 Yeah, the modern libertarian. 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.720 Giving heroin to the child I'm dating, as opposed to 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:17.000 what it ought to be about, which is arming drag 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:22.600 queens so that they can you know, carry out tactical strikes. Yeah, exactly. 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:23.719 So. 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:25.880 I found a write up of the tour they did 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:28.520 on reason dot com, which is a libertarian website, and 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:32.280 it's it's sympathetic to both people, right. Reason is the 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:33.920 kind of person who is going to see both tim 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:39.080 Leary and Gebility as like admirable people. Potentially, I'm going 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.120 to I think their description is interesting. First off, they 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:45.000 give it a pretty good summary, which is they describe 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.920 it as evidence of quote a disorienting moment in American history, 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.960 a time after the convulsions of the sixties and seventies 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.360 had ended, but while most of the giant figures of 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:56.760 that faded age were still around trying to find a 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:58.720 place for themselves in a changed world. And I do 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.840 think that's actually a pretty apt description of what's going 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.760 on here. Right quote, don't go in there's a film 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:07.520 that's made about this tour they go on that you 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.240 can watch. This is a summary of that film. Don't 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.280 go into this film expecting a conventional left versus right matchup. 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:15.120 By this point in his life, Timothy Leary was a 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.160 full fledged libertarian. This becomes obvious a little more than 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.480 forty minutes into the movie when he stands on stage 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:24.160 singing the praises of voluntary organizations. I believe in bridge clubs, 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.200 I believe in families, I believe in friends, I believe 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.400 in stock groups, I believe in collectives, I believe in 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:32.480 corporations and damning the one form of organization which is involuntary, 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:35.040 and that's the modern state. He goes on to declare 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.120 that every state in the world is a mafia, charging 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.720 extortion fees called taxes, but he allows that I love America. 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.920 America is the greatest mafia of the all. At another point, 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.440 after Lyddy offers a lengthy denunciation of gun control, Leary 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.840 doesn't reply with a liberal argument for restricting firearms. He 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:53.800 simply suggests that Liddy's arguments against gun laws work just 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.120 as well against drug laws. Now there's a couple things 0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:59.640 I would note here. What is that, Like, I agree 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.360 with you all all states are mafius. The United States 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.800 is the world's largest totally agreed, no disagreement. Why your 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:10.680 corporation's not mafius under what like a hell a fucking 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:14.960 insurance company sticking you up with like not allowing you 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.959 to fucking get cancer treatment unless you pay ruin and 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.880 like mortgage drafts. How is that? How was that better 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:21.880 than a mob? Right? 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:22.200 Yeah? 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.640 Like, fuck fuck you for first off for not seeing 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:31.040 that it's disgusting the degree of surveillance corporation. That's fucking vile. 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:31.880 I think of him. 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.120 It's better than a mob because any rich person could 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.120 buy shares in it, where exactly in a mob. Yeah, 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:39.679 at least some rich people could buy share. Yeah, this 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:45.480 is like like having a debate between like center right 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.920 and hard right and claiming it to be like bipartisanship, 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:53.520 and like is truly like presages what the contemporary conversation? 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:55.280 And this is not all I know? You know, I 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.160 come from libertarians, like I come like that. Those were 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:00.000 the people who pulled me away from being a republic 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.920 looking and I know a lot of a lot of 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.720 republic of libertarians I know are like, well, I believe 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.040 in like markets, and I believe in people's ability to 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.720 like compete. But I think that like corporations are fundamentally 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.360 the enemy of the free market, right that like, actually 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:15.360 what we need to do is break up monopolies and 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:17.920 destroy the ability of And I don't have a problem 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.040 with I may not agree one hundred percent, but I 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:23.280 think that's an intellectually consistent point, being like, the state 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.240 is a mafia and corporations are. That's nonsense, Timothy Leary, 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.920 absolute nonsense. Also nonsense is what he's saying about gun 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.400 control here. Obviously I have a different stance on this, 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.640 I think from a lot of our particularly more liberal listeners. 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:38.760 But what I will say that doesn't make sense about 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.800 this is that the ways in which gun control and 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.840 restrictions of drugs harm people, or sorry, the ways in 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.520 which the gun issue and harms that are done by guns, 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.480 and how gun control affects that is different, Like it 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.199 relates to the way in which like drug restrictions and 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:58.800 the way in which that harms people, Like, they're totally different. 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:00.440 Arms. 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:03.400 A big part of the danger of firearms. The reason 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.800 why we have mass shootings and stuff, the reasons why 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.439 we have gun crime, is that firearms are incredibly available. 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:14.839 If you care about reducing suicides by guns, mass shootings, 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.080 gun violence in general, you have to deal with the 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.080 fact that like, the more and firearms there are out there, 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.920 and the easier they are to acquire, the more people 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.120 who are dangerous will acquire them. Right, even if you 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:30.320 are pro gun, that is a very basic, inarguable fact 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.000 that you have to deal with if you if you 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.560 care at all about reducing the harm that guns do 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:39.840 in society. Right. The issue with drugs is the complete opposite, 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:45.120 which is that because of prohibition, drugs that are adulterated 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.400 show up on the market, and those kill people. The 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.800 other issue is that because it is an illegal business, 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.120 the price of drugs is artificially inflated to many times 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.400 what it ought to be, and so when people become addicted, 0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:59.520 they are often forced to do a position where in 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.400 order to avoid withdrawal, the only way they can afford 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.720 to get high is to steal shit. Whereas if they 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.240 could get their heroin for fucking two bucks a dose 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:09.720 from a government facility like they can in a couple 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.480 of countries. They would not need to break into people's 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:16.520 houses to afford their fucking fix. Right, These are completely 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.720 opposite issues, and like comparing them and saying like, well, 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.400 actually the problem with you know, gun control is bad 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.320 in the same way. Don't know, they're completely different problem. 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:26.160 Even though I have like a lot of gun control 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.800 laws objectively are not effective, which is not to say 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:30.400 that all of them are ineffective. A number of them 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.800 do work, but it's a completely opposite issue. The issue 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:37.240 with drugs is that is not that like there's too 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.200 many drugs, it's that people don't know what they're buying 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.600 and the price is inflated. The issue with guns is 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:47.400 that any fucking asshole can get one. Like, totally different problems. 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:51.160 What I mean, sorry, it's the way they're consistent. 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:55.160 Is what you're talking to the world's dumbest right wing teenagers. 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:57.200 They're both freedom issues. 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:02.800 Yeah, I anyway, it's it's whatever. I'm I'm very frustrated 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.080 by the Although I do have to say this is 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:07.120 a debate occurring in the mid eighties, a lot of 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.560 these problems were not nearly Like, for one thing, mid 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:13.480 eighties mass shootings very uncommon compared to what they would be. 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.840 So this is we and so you know, Finanel wasn't 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:17.920 in the market. Both of these problems are very different 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:19.800 when these guys are arguing. So I do have to 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:24.040 I have to give them kind of that point. 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:26.200 Anyway, quite simply has to hand it to g There 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:27.880 we go, So. 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:30.040 I don't Yeah, I don't want to go on too much. 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.080 I'm done ranting about my opinions. There. I will make 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.720 one more note, which is that while Leary, the guy 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:37.640 who was famous as a hippie figure, is very much 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:41.040 taking an individualist stance in these debates, Lyddy is the 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.160 guy who is coming at this from more of This 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.760 is something Reason notes Lyddy is actually more of a collectivist, 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.200 which is where because he's talking about like, you know, 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.640 because if fascists have a degree of that in them, right, sure, 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:55.400 you know they're like He talks a lot more about 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.560 like the community and the people and stuff, whereas Leary 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:00.480 is is really more of a people should be able 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.160 to like choose who they associate with. Liddy does not 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:07.040 really believe that. But Lyddy also critiques the prison industrial 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:11.000 complex pointedly in a way that Leary doesn't really spend 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.880 a lot of time on, which is interesting to me. Yeah, 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.639 he's not consistent about this, but it's interesting. Yeah. 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:21.080 G Gordon Liddy has problems with the prison industrial complex. Yeah, 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.439 only because he was in prison. Yeah, and he's certainly 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:25.440 never had it before. 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:27.840 He basically writes that in a column at one point. 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.240 But we'll get there. Lyddy's newfound fame earned him constant 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.880 appearances on new shows and the talk show circuit. We're 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:35.560 going to play you a clip of him on Letterman 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.880 from nineteen eighty two. Letterman does not give this guy 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.359 any pushback whatsoever. He does not really question him in 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.240 any meaningful way. You can see he and the audience 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:49.480 falling for Lyddy's routine. Lyddy during this appearance discusses the 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:51.400 time that he killed and ate that rat as a kid. 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:53.239 Because you know, people have read the book by this 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.960 point and are fascinated by it. He compares it to 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:58.600 the experiences of like guys like POW's who have to 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.520 eat rats to survive, and other heroic survivor narratives. When 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:04.800 he's asked to give advice on life in prison, he 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.199 goes into loving detail about all the weapons that he 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.800 supposedly had. And here I'm gonna have I and play 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:13.400 that clip. Now did you have did you have weapons 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.359 inside prison? And how does a person get a weapon? 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:18.800 You can get anything you want inside of prison, anything, 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:20.399 if you're willing to pay for it and have the 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.440 assets to pay for it. The way I got weapons 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:27.800 were some I bought and some I stole, and some 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.359 I had made for me by friends, good heavens, and 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.760 we're like firearms or actual life. I had a steel 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.040 bar with sharp edges with which I could break your legs. 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:42.520 I had a pickaxe handle with a jagged punk of 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:44.439 rusty steel on the end of it, with which I 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:48.760 could make you very unhappy. And of course I had 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.080 a knife. You always have a knife, shank as it's 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:52.800 called me shank for. 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:58.440 You kids watching at home, it's a shak. So it's 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.040 frustrated to be the degree to which Letterman and everyone 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.040 they're just like, yeah, welcome'm back. He's funny, he's our 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:08.760 everybody's favorite fascist. You know this other shit gets normalized. Letterman, 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:11.399 you were a part of that. Lyddy's book and touring 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.359 went so well that Hollywood soon came a call in. 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.600 In nineteen eighty five, he was hired to play a 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.320 CIA operative who'd become a heroin Smuggler on an episode 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.840 of Miami Vice. He is actually a recurring character on 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:27.520 the show Miami Vice. There's a lot that's interesting about 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:30.480 this appearance in particular, but I want to start with 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.280 playing a clip of Liddy on the show, and this 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:35.600 is from yeah, an episode of Miami Vice. 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:38.760 You know, of course that in most parts of the world, 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:45.320 pain is the second language. People understand it better than 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:49.280 words because you can get right to the point. But 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:52.600 in this country we don't really have very much pain, 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:57.399 So the second language is money. Naturally, you'd expect to 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:00.639 receive money for what, you know, that of pain? 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:07.320 Oh ironic, you know that's not a that's not a 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:11.640 badly delivered monologue. He's got some he's got Yeah, he's 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:15.000 got stage presence. Like he gets a lot of appearances 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.399 in a number of TV shows. And it's not just 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.160 because like that's how he gets his foot in the door, 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:23.679 but like he keeps getting appearances because like he's not 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:27.320 bad at that. He's actually like a decent character. Not 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:29.840 the only character he plays is g Gordon Lyddy. 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.480 But yeah, just so bizarre. 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:35.800 It is one of the again we keep talking about 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:39.399 these modern day fascist media just beIN Shapiro, Stephen Crowder, 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.040 Michael Knowles, these modern right wing ghouls that are all 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:45.120 propped up by Petro dollars and the Wilkes brothers and shit, 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.400